 Hello, welcome to the final live event that we're doing as part of Black History Month and so we've got Carol with us today who works for the Open University and she's going to be talking to us about ordering from the Black people from Victorian Britain and after she has presented we'll do a Q&A at the end so I'll ask her all your questions so throughout the talk if you can pop them into the Q&A box we'll answer them at the end. So I'll hand over to Carol now. Well good afternoon everybody and thank you for coming to this session. Today I'm going to be talking about prominent and ordinary Black people in Victorian Britain and I have to say that I hope that you enjoy this presentation. The information of ordinary Black people in Britain is not a story that we often think about exploring and particularly because we have our economic structures that we play out in contemporary society and we often think about Black people in the past particularly Victorian Black people. With a kind of niche narrative and this has really robbed us of the important information that Black people have were living in in Britain as ordinary people just like myself and you know other Black people who are living in Britain today contemporary Britain today and they were actually contributing successfully to Victorian society and unlike the stigmatisation that we have today because there wasn't that history in Victorian society that they were actually woven into English society as government officials. They were soldiers you know sorts of defenders of a country they were tradesmen entertainers they you know founders of families and they and they've kind of left a legacy that we have overlooked and actually forgotten and it's sometimes it's difficult to trace the descendants because some of the these Black people married you know white partners just you know in the same way as I have. A white partner and their children have married white partners and they have eventually sort of disappeared and and of course then the history tends to be diluted in society and and they became forgotten and what I want to do really with this short piece is to kind of highlight. You know how Black people were integrated into society and as ordinary people and then I want to bring to your attention. You know about four prominent people in society and and the journey of how they contributed to British society or English society and and then how that became lost and then kind of found again. So I thought it would be nice to go to Kent because you know when we think about Victorian Britain we always think about London and that's really because you know we have all those narratives and from Charles Dickens and you know I certainly think the first thing I think about when I. Try to hop back to Victorian Britain I think about Oliver Twist and Mary Mary Poppins, but you know, and these are great favorite films of mine from when I was little, but if we kind of think about Victorian Kent, that can give us a snapshot of what you know what England was like. In the Victorian times and how the Empire is in the British Empire, if you like, I kind of when I was reading about it so oh actually this feels a bit like the European Union where people in the British Empire were all British subjects, and they were all, you know, British and they could travel anywhere around the British Empire so they could go to Australia. Indeed there were some black people who went to live in Australia and they all went to the you know it to various parts of the British Empire and they could they could travel freely without a problem providing that they had you know that British stamp and and we and you know all of us as British recognised that England was a mother country and then was the head of that. So if we kind of take a snapshot of of of Kent will see the first records of black people in Kent are from the 16th and 17th century. And in the Victorian century, Victorian age, that's when things really became, you know, sort of recorded a bit more because there was, you know, census that went around and were trying to figure out who was living and working in the UK. And of course, what we have in Kent are in Victorian period and beyond are, you know, black semen. And there were various people who, you know, who had married and lived in various areas in Kent, and they were just working ordinarily and living a normal life. And this wasn't uncommon. I mean, they were, they were people who were living in towns and ports. And of course, I thought I'd list a few in terms of, you know, those graves and Chatham, Bathisham, Dover. I mean, you can read it for yourself. And of course, if we go to London, we'll find that people lived in Greenwich, the River Thames and so on and so forth. And they also lived in towns and villages in the area. And there were a range of black people in Kent. And, you know, some were born in a country, some were born in England, and some, you know, came to live their lives and were, you know, sort of residents and actively, you know, working and living. And they are recorded. And of course, we will see later on in this presentation that I have taken a record of the first black policeman who was working in and around Kent. And his name was, I think, by coincidence, John Kent. But we will go into that later. And of course, now that we've taken a snapshot of Kent, and my reasons for doing that is if you take a snapshot of a place, then you get a picture of the whole country. So if you, you know, sort of can see the trends and patterns that happen in a particular area, then it can give you a wider picture. And of course, having done that now, we can sort of visit London and see some of the things that happened during that time. And it was interesting. I mean, as I said, I'm sure everybody enjoys the pub. And certainly when I was young, not so much now because I'm an oldie, I'd go to the pub with some of my friends like we all do. But the public house in those days were owned by black men. That men were found across the country running pubs and some of their wives were white, some of their wives were black. And there was, you know, sort of mixed families and black families all around. But it was very common to go into a pub and find a black landlord. Also, in the same vein, as we have, you know, this kind of modern slang, I think I have younger children and they are now sort of becoming teenagers. And particularly the boys, they might speak in a way that I don't really understand because they have a slang which has a Caribbean sort of, you know, sort of ring to it. And it sounds all very trendy. And in the same way, in Victorian England, the twang at the time among, you know, sort of ordinary people was of African origin. So they eventually, because there was so much of it, they actually created a dictionary called the Dictionary of Vulgar Tongue. And I should say it might be trendy words nowadays. And of course there was, you know, lots of slang words which were actually of African origin. And I put one in, which was a kicker poo. So, you know, you might say, oh, Edith, you know, she's suffering because her husband did a kicker poo the other night or something like that. That's how I'm imagining it. But the language, African language was integrated into everyday English language. And of course, like today, we kind of mirror the Victorians in this way that there are many intermarriages between black men and white women and vice versa. And there are many families. And there is a record where there was an author who I can't, his name escapes me now, but he went to Liverpool and he, because he wanted to see, you know, a different kind of England, was like. And much to his surprise, he found among, you know, the working and middle class families in particular that they were mixed at the time that there was a lot of, you know, interracial marriages and children from interracial marriages. And that's something that was recorded. And of course, black people can be found in the Church of England. And this is because they were not prohibited in any way to join the congregations and settle into parishes. And they were very active in the church. And the first, at least one of the first black churches was recorded to be in Whitechapel at the time. So that kind of gives, you know, sort of a snapshot of how ordinary people lived. And if you can sort of, you know, put that into your imagination and try to kind of piece all of these together. It's a very different Victorian society than the one that I was told when I, you know, I certainly was a child. And I actually feel that it is, you know, a very exciting and interesting that Victorians were very much, you know, sort of multicultural and outward looking. It makes sense because they went to other people's countries and they brought back other people's cultures. I mean, we all know that the British cup of tea is something that has been taken from India, you know. So, so a lot of these cultures were taken back to the country, but obviously if you go and you colonize, you know, sort of different parts of the world, and you make the people in these different parts of the world, British subjects who are, you know, have allegiance with the country. And of course, you would, you will create a multicultural society because this, in fact, is a sign of a political and world power. I mean, it wouldn't be, it wouldn't be the same as Iceland because Iceland is a small country that doesn't have, you know, a lot of power. It has a lot of powerful friends, but doesn't have, you know, that kind of empire that is, that we experience, you know, in terms of with Britain. So, now we explore that we, you know, sort of have a look at some of these people that I was talking about. And it was a footballer who felt that he would be he would be the first footballer in the 1980s and silly for me because I'm having a senior moment. I can't remember his name. But the name I do remember is John Hent. And he had a police career that started between 1835 and 1846, and he married a lady called Mary Bell from Longtown, and they had three children, William, Mary and Jane. And they settled in the Carlyle area, and he was employed as a constable at Maryport. And he actually became the pillar of his society. And, you know, he was seen as somebody who was upholding the law. And of course, he, you know, he had a very fruitful career in terms of he, when he moved to, when he was at Maryport, he saved his colleague from a threat to his life. And he dealt with that. And, you know, and this issue was very serious. And he fought against a group of men and who injured him, and he brought them to court and brought them to justice. And again, I mean, this was quite impressive. He saved a 17-year-old boy from drowning, but this boy tragically drowned, you know, tragically died six hours later. And he also, as well as being a policeman, he also served in the fire service because policemen at that time wore two hats. They were not just, you know, sort of a policeman community, they were also firefighters as well. And people used to refer to John Kent as Black Kent. And of course, he was used, you know, against naughty boys, so they would say, if you don't behave yourself, then we're going to get Black Kent and he's going to arrest you. So, apparently, you know, sort of frightened the children in the community because he had, you know, that much authority. Unfortunately, though, in 1844, he was dismissed because of drunkenness. And this wasn't really uncommon among policemen at that time because drinking alcohol and one of the reasons for having many pubs was because people, the water was unsafe in Victorian period. There was cholerae and typhoid, so people would actually go to the pub. And also, you know, the fact is because they had a lot of human waste that was thrown around in the street also at that time. And so, like many of his colleagues, he was dismissed for drunkenness. And then he went to the car line magistrates where he served a short period of being a bailiff for the court. And then he then became the parish constable once again in Longtown. And, you know, he kind of dealt with quite a few incidents. And in 1851, he became the railway policeman in Carlisle. And, you know, he kind of did this for the remainder of his life until his retirement. And then he died at the age of 81 from peritonitis. And in the local newspapers at the time, the headline was death of a Carlisle nobleman, or notable, would really be the world, said the death of a Carlisle notable. And then he was buried in a cemetery in an unmarked plot, which was very sad that he was buried in an unknown grave. But his life was later revealed by an author who was a policeman himself in 2018, Raymond Greenhow. And it's, if you want to look at the book, it's called John's Life was revealed in this new book, which was, you know, I think it's called John's Life, and it's published in March 2018. So, and I feel that this is a wonderful story and shows how, you know, black people contributed and were, you know, a real, really part of Victorian society in its time. I'm sure we're all familiar with Mary Sequel, and she was the first nurse. And Mary was actually born in Jamaica and age 12 in 1818. She helped to run a boarding house where there were many guests and the guests were sick and injured soldiers. And then three years later, she travelled to the UK with her relatives when she stayed there for about a year. And this gave her the opportunity to really understand European medicine. And she used that in conjunction with traditional Caribbean techniques of using herbal medicines. And then in 1823, she went to London on her own and she remained there for two years. And then she travelled to Cuba, and then she travelled to Haiti and to the Bahamas and then she returned to Jamaica, Kingston in 1826 to nurse her patroness. So she, you know, there's a kind of pattern there where she's always seems to be nursing sick people throughout her life. She did marry and she married Edwin Sequel in 1836. And they ran a store in a place called Black River. I'm sure if anybody's been to Jamaica, Black River is a place where you can go on the crocodile tours and there's YS falls and all sorts of nice things nowadays. But anyway, going back to Mary, Edwin became unwell. She nursed him until he died in 1844. And then his death was closely followed by her mother, which was devastating for her. And then in 1850, she nursed, she decided to kind of go and nurse victims in Kingston who had the, because there was a cholera epidemic. And then in 1851, she travelled to Panama, where there was another outbreak again, and then back again in 1853 to Jamaica, where she was, you know, battling with the yellow fever pandemic. And then from there, she was visited by the medical authorities to supervise nursing services in Uptown, in Upt Park in Kingston, which was the British Army headquarters. And of course, she then reorganised herself and she decided to open a lodging house, which she'd built, which was rebuilt after a fire, which was her actual home. It was called Lundell Hall, that's what it was called. And she used that to start a hospital, because then she began to see these, you know, these young men who were old soldiers, I guess, as her own children, because she had nothing left, because her mother and her husband had died. So she became, you know, sort of attached to them, almost like a mother. And I think she had motherly feelings towards them and she was known as mother sequel by a lot of the soldiers. And of course, the Crimea War, which lasted between 1853 and 1856, which she's most famous for, that was fought by coalition against the Russian Empire. And she travelled to England, approached the British War Office, and she asked them if she could actually go to Crimea and they refused, you know, point blank. So she then went back and she, you know, sort of got her money together. And as a very determined woman, she went to Crimea, which was part of the Ukraine at the time. And she established the British Hotel with Thomas Daley, who was a relative of her husband, Edwin. And a hotel was a place for respite for sick and, you know, suffering soldiers and kind of helped them to recover. And Mary, at that time, they became very well known with Florence Nightingale. And I think Florence Nightingale's hospital, she had a famous military hospital, which was situated about 100 miles away from the front line. It was just outside Istanbul. But Mary's hotel was in Balaklava, sorry if I'm not saying that right, which was very much on the front line. It was on the battlefield. And even under fire, sometimes she would go out and she would nurse the soldiers and, you know, sort of do last rights for her. And this is why she was established as mother sequel. And then at the end of a war, she actually returned to England with very little money because she had actually invested all of her money trying to get the soldiers better. And the soldiers then understanding that she didn't have a lot of money, wrote letters to a newspaper praising what she had done. And the Times Correspondents, Sir William Russell wrote, I trust that England will not forget one who nursed her sick, who sought out her wounded to aid and suckle them and to perform the last rights for officers, for some of her illustrious dead. So this kind of tells you, you know, the gravity of the relationship that she had with those soldiers. And a lot of them admired her, a lot of people did, and they came to aid. There was soldiers, generals, and even members of the royal family at the time. And they held a gala in 1857, a fundraising gala, which would help her, you know, and that was held over four nights on, and it was held on the banks of the River Tens, which tells you how important she was in her time because 80,000 people had actually attended the event. And, you know, and of course, I mean, this is all recorded in the wonderful adventures of Mrs Sequel in many lands, which she wrote and became an instant bestseller. But it has been said that Florence Nightingale lobbied the government tirelessly to ensure that she would not be honoured and that she would not be recognised for her work, which I find, you know, sort of very sad. And she died in London in 1888, and her history was forgotten for about 100 years until some nurses from the Caribbean, who knew of her, went to visit her grave in Northwest London, and they asked a local MP, Lord Clive Solley, to help them. And he, you know, he promised to raise some money for a statue. And in 2004, Mary was actually voted as the greatest black Britain, and Lord Solley launched the campaign for a statue after leaving the House of Commons in 2006. The statue was eventually unveiled, and it is found on the grounds of St Thomas's Hospital on London South Bank. And I think she's left a very good legacy. And, you know, I think, again, she's a wonderful role model and kind of shows the sacrifices and it shows entrepreneurship and her, you know, sort of true guts and achievement and an absolute loyalty to British society as a, you know, a black Victorian Britain. And I, you know, I kind of feel very, what's the word, I feel very proud to tell this story. And I know that she is well known anyway, but, you know, I think it's a wonderful, it's a wonderful story to tell. And the next person, and I'm sure you can see that I'm kind of giving you a variety of people because, you know, there are a variety of narratives and there are so many more black Britons who had contributed to Victorian society. And I thought this time it would be good to look at a musician. And this is Samuel Coleridge-Taylor, and he used to call himself the Anglo-African. And he incorporated black traditional music with concert music and with such composition, you know, as African sweets, African romance and 24 Negro melodies. I mean, these are things that he's he kind of some of his compositions and he's most famous for his performance with the Haywatha wedding feast, which was described by the principle of the Royal College of Music as one of the most remarkable events in the modern English musical history. And that work was really acclaimed both in the USA and in the UK as well. He was born in Holborn in London on the 15th of August on 1875. And his father, Daniel Peter Hughes-Taylor, came from Sierra Leone to Britain in 1860. And he studied medicine and qualified as a member of the Royal College of Surgeons and he practiced in Croydon and went back to Africa and was appointed coroner of the Gambia in 1894. And in 1890 at 15, sort of going back a few years, 15 years old, Samuel was so clever that he entered the Royal College of Music as a violin student. And after two years, he he kind of swapped over his studies to composition and his tutor Charles Villa Stanford challenged him to write a clarinet quintet without showing him any influences, you know, in terms of any composers like Brahms or anyone like that. And Coleridge-Taylor, he did it. And when this early work was revealed in 1973 years later, the New York Times critic called it something of an eye-opener and a short piece of writing in the post-romantic tradition, sweetly melodic, and that's how it was described. But going back into the 1800s, so 1896 he met the African American poet Paul Lawrence Dunbar and set some of his poems to music and called it African Romances, which is something that I mentioned earlier. And in 1897, the two main gave joint performances. He also met with Frederick J Loudin, a former director of the Frist Jubilee Singers, the choir that introduced African American spirituals to British audiences in 1873. And by 1898 Elgar, I'm sure everybody knows Elgar, then England's leading, he was England's leading living composer described Coleridge-Taylor as far and away the cleverest fellow among the young men. A few weeks later came the triumph hywatha wedding feasts, which captivated the public and established him as Britain's outstanding young composer. And however, despite his enthusiastic reception, I think Coleridge-Taylor didn't actually receive very many rewards for his work at the time. And in order to live, he had to teach and he had to conduct to earn a living, and he died in 1912 as a professor of composition at the Trinity College of Music in London. And as well as the conductor of the Handel Society, the Rochester Choral Society, and he conducted many provincial orchestras. So you can see that he was a multi-talented person, and in fact he was very, very talented because he was invited to America by President Theodore Roosevelt at the time. And he was championed by Black Americans because talented Black Americans were not recognised during that period for obvious reasons. And so he was very much a Black American hero because he was invited to the White House in a very difficult time. And as I said, he lived in England until he died, and he contracted pneumonia at the age of 37, so he died very young. And he left two daughters, and both those daughters had distinguished careers, as one was a conductor, Hawatha was a conductor, and Gwendolyn was a composer. And again, you know, I think a very interesting story. Hopefully you're still all engaged in this, and I want to go on to, you know, for the men particularly, somebody a bit more exciting. Arthur Walton, and Arthur Walton was born in Ghana in 1864. His father was a Grenadian and half Scottish, and his mother was from Ghanaian royalty. And he moved to England to train as a missionary, but he quickly got bored with, you know, sort of religion and religious and academic life. And he actually went to pursue a sporting career, and he found that he was extremely talented, and he kind of, you know, broke a record with a 100 metre dash in 10 seconds at Stanford Bridge. And he was, you know, this success gave him opportunities to compete in professional athletic tournaments across the country. And this is where he really found his abilities as a professional in professional football clubs. He was first signed as a semi professional player with Preston North East in 1886 as a goalkeeper. And his highlight with Preston was to make it to the FA Cup finals in 1887, where they lost actually 3-1 to West Bromwich Albion. And there was speculation at the time that Arthur was good enough to play for England. And, you know, and of course, then in 1889 he turned fully professional, and he signed up with Rotherham United, and in 1894 Sheffield United decided to coach him. And unfortunately his, you know, he, that move was not successful because he was actually getting older and he was competing with younger goalkeepers. I think one was really famous called Fatty Flux, who was quite famous. But, you know, having, you know, had a fruitful football career, he retired in 1902 and unfortunately he started to drink heavily. I'm sure this is one of these things that happens in Victorian society. And, you know, as we saw with John with people going to the pubs because water was not very accessible. And he died in 1930, and as somebody he was penniless. And his story was actually uncovered in 1997. And it was because of the football clubs were experiencing racism and they decided to start a campaign, which was football unites racism divides. And I think somebody found another unmarked grave in Ellington. And thankfully now because of the British football clubs, he's now has been given a headstone and his picture is included in the exhibition of British sporting heroes at the National Portrait Gallery. So, you know, another another story to be uncovered. But I think it's important to say that it is he is not the first black footballer that there were many black footballers playing before him. And, but my reason for highlighting him is that he was the first professional that footballer to play in the football league. But there are there are many, many more before him. The next person that I have and our final person is a lady called Fanny Matilda Eaton, and she's of mixed heritage. She's Jamaican and English. And her father, they say that her father may have been a British soldier who died at the age of 20 and had actually funded, you know, found the funds for her and her mother and his daughters to move to England around 1840. And they, you know, they settled to work. She wasn't rich. The mother was a lawn dress and Fanny married John Eaton, who was 19 and she was 22. He was a Hanson cab driver and she was a cleaning lady. And what she used to do was she, she would go and sit for artists to make some extra money. And they kind of described us her thick, they described her to have thick kinky hair, which was exotic at the time, mixed race features, which made her irresistible, an irresistible model for artists. And, and of course she became one of the members of a pre-Raphaelite brotherhood, you know, and of course her likeness, not only, you know, herself, but her likeness hangs today in many galleries around the world. And, you know, for example, the Tate in the British Museum, you can find the Yale Centre of Arts and Princeton Museum of Arts are some of the areas that you can find her. And of course around the country and she became a favourite model among artists who have been this member of the pre-Raphaelite brotherhood. And, of course, Dante, anybody who knows Dante, wrote a Rosetti, who was one of its leaders, described her in a letter to a fellow artist, a Ford Maddox Brown, and he'd written, you know, when he'd written when Fanny was about 30 years old, as having a fine head and figure a good deal of Janie. And of course we know Janie is Janie Morris, which is the quintessential Raphaelite stunner, the lady with the, you know, the long ginger hair. So she was really one of these beauties that was, you know, really quite up there. So she was thought of as a considerably beautiful and she was really valued for her strong features and, you know, as I said, her massive hair. And she, you know, her grave sometimes, you know, sort of care worn expression, as I said, which was very sought after at the time for the Victorian, you know, sort of attitude, which exuded beauty. And they painted and drew Fanny very often. And there are actually more portraits of Fanny Eaton being discovered all the time. And of course she, you know, she may have been kind of unknown, but to us. And of course we kind of know that she was never, it never did make her rich because she was constantly working as a maid and as a cleaner. But we have to understand that at this time, free Raphaelite models were not, you know, they weren't rich. There were only, there were a few of them that were educated and married well. And, but the majority of these ladies were servants, dressmakers, gypsies, you know, prostitutes even. And I think that the most famous of them were only famous because they were involved in scandals. And, you know, and they had affairs with the artists, but Fanny was really married with 10 children. And I think she was probably just a very busy woman. So she kind of, you know, became unknown after she had finished. But just to kind of give you some insight, some of the slides that, sorry, some of the sketches, first known sketches featuring Fannies was made in 1857 by Simeon Solomon. And he was already noted as a draftman at age 19. And he actually met Fanny by chance. And because he didn't actually live very far from her. So I think he kind of asked her to sit for a few sessions. And sometimes he even used her to, you know, to kind of draw, you know, people of different, of different genders say, because she had a very interesting face that the artists could manipulate because her face was quite angular, even though she was extremely beautiful. And he made a pencil study of her on the basis for a painting of Moses' mother, which is shown at the 1860 Royal Academy exhibition. As well as a finished painting, as well as finished paintings, there are many drawings, often with her hair and bound and, you know, sort of looking very realistic and textured as well. And of course she was, you know, Solomon's sister, Rebecca, which is Solomon's sister, sorry, Rebecca. He painted Eton in a painting, which was a young teacher who was a nursemaid being taught by the child that she was looking after. And also she was sketched by Rosetti in his painting, The Beloved, which now hangs in Tate Britain, where she is among bridesmaids at the centre, you know, behind the bride. I think you can see her face in one of those paintings. She also modelled in classes at the Royal Academy between 1860 and 1897, and in 1888, unfortunately, her husband died when she was 45 and kind of left her to raise seven children. The youngest Frank, who was two, and she never remarried. And in fact, I think this is where her career kind of took a dip, if we can, you know, we can kind of call it a career as a modelling, as a model, it kind of took a dip. And she worked as a cook there on for a wine merchant when she kind of lived in Isle of Wight. And in 1911, as she lived with her daughter in Hammersmith, where she died nearby Acton. And of course, she has actually left the legacy because her images live on in various galleries around the world and depicting, you know, beautiful heroines and famous beauties. And it's just very nice to, you know, sort of be able to pack that and see the contribution that she has made, which is something, again, which is an everlasting one. So having given you some insight into, you know, ordinary and prominent people, black people in Victorian Britain, I hope that this has enlightened you and shown you that there isn't just one narrative and that there are more than, you know, there are many other narratives about black people's contribution to Victorian society. And it's always worth having an open mind and looking deeply. And in fact, I find that this is, you know, very exciting because it gives another perspective on, you know, Victorian attitudes and Victorian lifestyles, which is, you know, far from what I could ever imagine. And I thank you very much for listening. Thank you, Carol. I thought that was really interesting. So thank you for putting that together for us. We do have one question in the Q&A section. I was not going to come through as well, but Kevin asked in an age before moving around the world became relatively straightforward. Do you have any thoughts about what led black people from around the globe to decide to pick up their lives and move to Britain and how daunting a step this must have been? Well, I would say that firstly, part of the human condition, I'm an anthropologist and part of the human condition is to be travelling. People have always travelled across the globe and that is, you know, what it means to be human. I mean, if we even think about Britain and, you know, and countries such as Australia, which were black countries before, those countries have now been transformed to white countries, as has America and Canada and so on and so forth. So there is always a reason and it's very important to think that there are always stories why people decide to move from one place to another. It's not always the case that people are poor or that there are wars. I mean, these are common stories that we hear because we have, we invite the news into our living rooms and we get one narrative. People often travel maybe if we think about Africa before colonisation, Africa was a very rich place, but, you know, after Europe came out of the dark ages, it was a place of awe and wonder and people wanted to understand, you know, who was the richest man on Earth and that richest man lived in Africa. So, there are many reasons why people may have wanted to come to England. I certainly know that in the Victorian period and after, during colonisation, people used to think that England's streets were made of gold and that the Queen was, you know, some magic mystery person and that England was the mother country and a lot of people had allegiance to that and we can even see that with the Windrush generation that they came over and they had a completely different idea of what England would be like. I thought, you know, it would be a kind of movie lifestyle until they came over and realised that it was actually quite cold and a lot of hard work, but the people are very nice, you know. So, we can't kind of stick to one narrative. It's very dangerous to kind of stick with one narrative, thinking that people are poor and that they're coming over to get a better life. It is in some cases, but it is not in most cases. Hopefully that answers the question. Really, thank you Carol. The next question is, is there any evidence of racism and or racial tension during the Victorian era? There is no racial tension. I mean, there are some texts written by Mary Sequel that she did experience some racism. I don't think it was as bad as it is in our contemporary world because there isn't the history of slavery. We have to remember also that slavery is happening in our time. It's just not the slavery of many black people. There's other people who are enslaved, a variety of people who are enslaved. As we experience today, we are just living our normal life, and we don't acknowledge that there are people who are enslaved because it's not part of our everyday narrative. So there were people who experienced racism, and again, one of the things I have to say is that racism is a narrative which is not only something that is unusual to British society. It's a narrative that is experienced in every country all over the world, and it's not just for people of a particular colour. It's about people stepping into a space where they are not the majority, and that's how I would define racism. It could be that you might go to Saudi Arabia, and as a white person, they think that you don't have very many morals, and you're there to touch your hair and think about this and all that kind of thing. It could be that, and in the same way it could be you're in England and you are a colour and so on and so forth. But in Victorian society, racism existed all over the world, and it isn't anything unusual, and some of these people did struggle with racism. Brilliant, thank you. The next question is, is there a book that compiles black Victorians, so any suggestions reading? There is a book that compiles black Victorians, it's called Black Victoriana, and I will have to post you the... That's alright, if you let me know then I can share it. Yes, and it covers a lot of the happenings among black people in the UK. Also, there is a lady, I think her name is Cresswell, and she's currently doing some research. I think she was on the Royal Geographical Society not so long ago. I think she's doing some research on that at present. So, there's ongoing research about the contributions by Black Victorian Britons. Cool, thank you. I'll share that when you let me know. Thank you. The final question is, why did Florence Nightingale lobby against Mary Ceele during getting recognition for her contribution? I'm not entirely sure. I only understood that there was a little bit of a race to be the first nurse in the UK. Of course, if you think about the NHS even today, it is a business. It was really about being recognised and also putting that stamp on nursing because it was a business that was about to expand, which is a very successful business today. It's only hearsay anyway. Brilliant, thank you. That's all of the questions, so thank you everybody for taking time out of your day to join us, especially at lunchtime. It's a huge thank you to Carol for putting this together for us. She's put an awful lot of time and effort into doing this. It was a brilliant presentation, so thank you. Thank you. This has been recorded alongside all the other talks that we've done as part of Black History Month, and I'll make sure that they're available at the end of this week, if not at the beginning of next week, and they'll be on the Black History Month work page. If you have any further questions for Carol, make sure to just drop me them in an email and I can always get back to you. So yeah, thank you everyone for joining us, and I'll let you go over your days now. Thank you. Thank you, thank you very much.