 Okay, we'll call the special meeting to order Pat would you call the roll please Bowman Berg Excuse Bonaise excuse Doyle graph excuse Manny Montemayor excuse moody Perez Rindflash Stefan Van Akron Vanderwill Wongerman Warner Winnie or 12 prison Corms prison We have one hearing this evening and the purpose of the hearing is for the budget for the use during 2004 all taxpayers are the residents of The governmental unit will have an opportunity to be heard on a proposed budget So when you come up to microphone Speak give us your name address and And spell your name also Pat would like if you could and Keep it to the budget Thank you all the men Warner. I think runner. I just want to thank everyone for being here, but besides that Mayor Shram Did bury his father today, and I just wanted to know that he everyone Just glad you can make it back here, and I understand how you feel today, and I just hope That your family gets through this. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you Mike So if you want to start then what I want to step up the microphone first for the hearing and speak Please step up right for phone. Give us your name address Again anyone who would like to step the microphone Jeff main me hn reside at 3610 Bonnie court in Sheboygan My condolences to you may shrimp. Thank you. Thank you for letting me be here this evening I'm the director of the boys and girls clubs of Sheboygan County, and I'm here to speak on their behalf I understand and respect the difficult decisions that you need to make and I'm not going to stand up here and give you a Thousand reasons why you should support the boys and girls clubs And we're going to ask you to consider just one and that's our future The number one thing that we do at the boys and girls club is develop our children, and I know we are successful I recognize there are many needs This one is absolutely critical The $19,000 To the boys and girls clubs that you consider today or in the next few days is an investment in tomorrow Research supports. This is an investment with huge dividends Outcome measurements indicate a hundred percent of our members feel they belong at the club 30% Responded they would be in a gang if not for the club That equates to a hundred and eighty potential gang members in the city of Sheboygan It is no secret the cost of gang involvement Graffiti vandalism and a host of other crimes with the end result in some instances Incarceration all at a cost to the community One significant fact with gang involvement the number one reason cited for gang involvement is a sense of belonging 98% of the members see the value of helping others 69% total and 88% of all high schoolers Stated they have been a leader at the club 92% of the members stated if they found a wallet they would turn it in the same 92% reported They have developed the ability to say no when something is wrong resistance skills positive choices Meaningful relationships are things that take place at the boys and girls clubs every day Character and leadership development Developing responsible citizens and leaders Future community members who see the value of giving back to the community and take ownership Citizens who are productive employees Taxpayers and responsible caring individuals. These are just these are not just words and a mission statement It is what we do and we can't we accomplish all these things with your support Thus far in 2003. We have 585 registered members In October 73 members participated in the club on a daily basis 98 students are participating at Washington elementary 127 student children are participating in the transportation program from the north side to the south side Center 2000 and 24 non-members have been served non-members have been served this year alone We are making an impact. We are making a difference in the lives of youth. Thanks to your support And I'll just leave you with a quote from retired general Cole and Paul We do not have anything more important to do than protect youngsters and put them on to on the road to success The choice is very simple We either build our children or we build more jails It is time to stop building jails and get back to what we know how to do as Americans and that is to build our children Thank you for your time. Thank you Jeff Alderman Reinflerch. Did you want to comment on that at this point or do you want to? certainly I was one of the alderman that did vote to remove The $19,000 from the budget for coming to finance I had felt that at the time city is not in the business to give to charity since then though I have learned the history of the Relationship between the Boys and Girls Club in the city and the fact that it started out as the youth service Bureau which was part of the city's budget and I do think that Putting the $19,000 back into the budget It will save us more money as Jeff had pointed out in the long term in terms of law enforcement Graffiti cleanup and what have you So I'll be working very hard in the next three days to find out where in the budget We can replace that 19,000 and where that's going to come from And I hope that you all agree with me and help me finding that. Thank you Anyone else wishing to be heard? Angus can you pull the mic? Agnes Sorens, 1415 Camelot Boulevard And Mayor Schramm in Common Council you really have to be congratulated on your hard-working determination To keep the 2004 budget in line with what the citizens of Sheboygan would tolerate I Still do not agree with the storm or a fee But it did provide a way for the city to make up the deficit some money's coming for out of Madison I believe the way the 2004 budget was tackled this year is Only the beginning 2005's budget should be started early and no stone should be left unturned to try to cut costs in wage increases health benefits and pensions and That's it. Thank you Angus the 2005 budget will be started right after January 1st Anyone else wishing to be heard? My name is Kathy with Rick. The last name is spelled w u e Th R I C K my address is 2 0 2 5 Carmen Avenue. I don't have anything prepared I didn't realize I could come and do that at this stage of the game However, I believe that you realize I've written several letters both to Mayor Schramm and to my older people and I believe there are a lot of services that cannot be cut in this city one of them is police We have a terrible terrible thing going on in this city And I'm an emergency department nurse and I know what's going on here And most of you would be appalled to know what happens in this city if we use the Scare tactics of cutting the police because there is no money. I don't think that's I don't think that's the right way to go I know that's not the right way to go I believe that there are a lot of other ways that we can cut the taxes in this city without The scare tactics of cutting the police in the fire department There are a lot of kids that are involved in crime There are a lot of kids that are involved in gangs and they need to be stopped There's a lot of drugs in this community that people do not even realize and we need to be focusing our attentions on Taking care of our kids because they're the ones that are going to take care of all our social security When we all get old if we don't take care of them What are we going to do? We aren't going to have money to do anything and you can tax them all you want There's not going to be any money there because they're going to be out robbing you and your neighbors to get the money they need for the drugs and I I'm not real smart about this whole budget thing. I intend to get a lot smarter in the next few years about this whole budget thing And I think that there are a lot of ways it can be cut There are a lot of things that are going on in the private community and in private business That the city needs to start looking at and saying too bad We can't afford all these perks and benefits anymore people are going to have to start paying for some of these things as An emergency department nurse. I have to pay my own health care. I Guess I don't understand why people in government think they don't have to do that I have to pay for a lot of other things and then I still have to pay for someone in government to have that health care and some of the other benefits that they get that I don't get as a taxpayer and I just think there's a lot of ways to cut the budget and I know you're doing a great job And I appreciate that I'm much happier with this budget than I was when I first contacted you mayor Shram about the 10% increase, which I also understand was a lot of gossip correct it was a lot of gossip and I understand that but Sometimes maybe we need the gossip to get people worked up a little bit and to start looking into things and to start Contacting their older people and to tell them what they need to have done Instead of what the government thinks they need to have done and the city isn't the only place that needs to be done It needs to be done at all levels. So I'm not standing here picking on city government It needs to be done at the school board level It needs to be done at the county level and I definitely needs to be done at the state level But we have to start someplace. Thank you. Thank you. Kathy. Does your name spell with a K or a C? It is spelled with a K. My correct name is Kathleen with a K Anyone else wishing to be heard? Anyone else wishing to be heard? My name is Lloyd Turner My address is 42 17 summer drive I guess first of all, I really have no idea whether the budget balances are not or I have no idea whether it's a tax increase But I know last Monday it was reported that we were still short $60,000 in the fire department budget The human resources manager was asked where the money was coming from. He said he didn't know But would find it. I don't know what that means I mean, is it easy to go out in this government and find $60,000 Is there additional money in the budget that that's going to come out or Will the taxes just go up that $60,000 The merit indicated that a full-time person in his department would be retiring next year and the position would be filled immediately Would I'm sorry would not be filled immediately I understand that this is not true at this time This probably amounts to $30,000 plus or minus. Where is the money coming from for this? Possibly the elimination of the position of human resources manager and combining Services with the county on these duties. This probably would save in excess of a hundred thousand dollars You have put off pay raises to most employees in the city According to the paper amounting to three hundred thousand dollars all this means is that you will start in year 2005 with a deficit of three hundred thousand dollars This is just like borrowing the money To balance your budget and I don't think that's a good Way to do that. There are plenty of areas that money can be trimmed out of the budget But you must be willing to listen to your constituents and make those cuts as for me I will be looking for better representation at the polls in the coming election For at least seven years Excuse me public works has been recommending the adoption of the stormwater Fee the council said no no you call it a fee, but it's really a tax The same was said of the wheel tax the council in their infinite wisdom Repealed the wheel tax the council now needing money for the budget changed their mind The council explained that the DNR was requiring street cleaning and storm sewer cleaning and that this Should be placed in one fund a new stormwater utility This would cost the average resident approximately thirty six dollars per year Industry commercial churches would pay a higher fee or tax The overall increase to the total budget for this fee or tax would be approximately eight percent Which is the one million one hundred thousand dollars, so When you first before you even started the budget to approve the the stormwater sewer Fee which Initially gave you one million one hundred thirty nine thousand dollars or eight percent was added before you even started So that I guess that's doable Overheads and printed documents showed where the money was needed and would go At a later council meeting where the stormwater utility was voted on It was not explained about the shell game that had been played which left in excess of four hundred thousand dollars in The general budget for street cleaning and storm sewer cleaning. It is my understanding that This was done with the knowledge of some alderman So that there would be extra monies to lay additional storm sewers Two or three times at the meeting public works tried to present a new budget of the stormwater utility But we're told to wait until all alderman had spoken Public works never gave the report and the utility was passed the four hundred thousand plus or minus Should be removed from the budget. Thank you Lloyd I can only answer one thing to The portion that I said on the taxes isn't going up You asked a question. Are we raising taxes? I said the tax rate would stay where it's at and I'm answering. I'm still promising you right now as of right now It's that where it's at And let's just counsel cease fit to do something else with it, which we'll discuss, but the other ones you certainly may call Tom Houlton get your answers you may call Ed Okay, okay Anyone else what shouldn't be heard? Anyone else? well Melanie cook 24 22 north 5th Street Sheboygan Those of you who have heard me before maybe can think about something else for a few minutes The factories are closing America is undergoing a great change Sheboygan is being hard hit because 39% of our people are involved in manufacturing the national average is 17% When you lose your job, you wonder if you're going to lose your house or even be able to stay in this town that your family may have been in for Generations the last thing you want to worry about is more taxes But as the factories close we have to have something in Sheboygan We have to diversify economically and that's why I can't understand why there's so much rage toward blue harbor and the marina And because of them the whole city government Not only do we need the tourism, but people want to go where quality of life is Although we are losing manufacturing jobs. We are actually having trouble filling other positions here, especially those that require an education We need to have something besides a toxic pile of dirt on our prime waterfront property Blue Harbor seems to be a good mix and if it's not perfect, we don't know if or when the perfect one would have come along. I Don't claim to know under understand how it's being financed But we've been told that a large part of the financing comes from other sources than our taxes and that it will add to the tax base It seems tragic to me that the people who tried to do this for Sheboygan are now being treated like our worst enemies Or that people who people believe that this will only benefit the rich And what seems to me even more tragic than that is that people who are so hypnotized by the lower taxes chant that they will give up everything of value They have for it It has such a hold on people that we're slashing our LTC budget at a time when large numbers of laid-off people are needing to upgrade their skills Or learn something completely new and young people are realizing that there are no more unskilled jobs that pay a living wage The lower taxes panacea has raised our public college tuition 31% in two years to the point where more and more young people and working mothers can't even go Now we are laying off and cutting back city workers all of these positions will be missed We'll get an answering machine or busy signal instead of a person the window may be closed The computer will be down our disabled and poor won't be as able to get around our parks and streets won't be as kept up At the moment, I believe there are even still some police dispatcher jobs being eliminated, which seems to me almost beyond belief To me the saddest part is the vindictiveness involved There are actually people who have been led to believe that this is some kind of triumph over the forces of evil government It doesn't seem to occur to us the people who have instilled these beliefs might hang out at country clubs and posh resorts And maybe don't care what our parks look like They probably send their children to private schools and couldn't care less what our public schools are like They probably don't live in a high-crime neighborhood Everybody wants what they want from government, but they think whatever anybody else gets is a waste of money This attitude seems especially popular among people who have no children in school and forget that somebody paid to educate them Older people have had their savings turned to nothing by inflation If they're losing their homes there should be some income and asset-based limit on their property taxes Which could be applied for just like homestead credit or heat assistance For the rest of us I would say the price of everything the city uses is going up just like it is for everybody else vehicles heat Everything textbooks paper The state has suddenly confiscated about $800,000 of what was supposed to be our money and the federal government keeps giving less and less to Americans And more and more to places like Iraq and to corporations that take it overseas Now is hardly the time to be strangling our cities even harder There are many taxpayers who feel that an across-the-board wage freeze or for city workers to pay more toward their health insurance Would have been the fair and well-intentioned thing to do There are many in the city who feel that way also, but they're not the majority yet Most of them did give up raises and are paying more for their health insurance City workers already have copays and deductibles like everyone else The reason many people's premiums are paid is because they gave up many other things over the years to get that and because the city is self-insured I Don't think the answer to people not having health insurance is to resent those that have it. I think we need to work on More people getting health insurance at a price that can afford Personally would be willing to see my taxes go up for that reason and I know that's very difficult to plan that sort of thing So that it doesn't involve a lot of fraud and waste But I think it's something people maybe could devote some of their energy to and even though it's not the popular thing nowadays It would cost each taxpayer about ten dollars a year to save all of the jobs of Presently employed people that are being reduced or eliminated. These are people with families These are all the people at the bottom of their departments. These are not gravy jobs We work until May to pay our federal and state taxes and we get much more questionable things for them Yet no one is protesting or questioning that The price of a low-end house has tripled in 20 years and the prices of everything else has kept pace The national debt whose payment would have been a real tax cut compared to our little $300 keeps us all on the inflation treadmill. I Feel that our local taxes are actually a good deal compared to most of the bizarre prices for things we pay for things today My family pays $217 a month which I admit is the low end the average tax bill is $282 a month which is still far less than what it costs just to educate one child Let alone all the other things that are included with that So far I haven't heard anyone who calls Sheboygan a tax hell and so on state what they pay in taxes I also wonder about the agendas of people who are constantly attacking our governments and education as you may have heard Me say before I've lived through the 60s once and I'm hoping they'll be over someday I don't see where the people attacking our constitutional form of government are any different Who are doing who are attacking our government now? I am not a completely objective person I am a city worker whose position is being eliminated. I am also a mother who's trying to raise a child in this town in this world I don't have much hope that anyone is listening to me because so many people have been told that a zero percent tax increase would be Some kind of personal triumph Instead of the point three percent increase that would save all our jobs or the point five or one percent increase that we Realistically need to save other needed things such as funding for the boys and girls clubs and countless others that have been cut And I had that part about the boys and girls clubs in before I even heard him speak and as far as the fees I would say you need to maybe talk to some people who've returned here from other states because the feet fees there are So high it costs us $7 here for instance to register our child for school. It costs $80 in Chicago and That's all I have to say. Thank you. Thank you Melanie anyone else Jim Rinal R E INL 512 Southwater I Believe you could cut down on the police department and the fire department real easily The United States government is now fighting what they call a war and they're using reserves Volunteers they didn't have to use a draft Why can't we have a volunteer fire department? Why can't we have some volunteer policemen people that learn how to do a policeman's job? Without being a full-time a policeman like a citizen that goes to work every day and he does this on the side or The same as the reserves the reserves were all citizens and they were just going to the army and the Navy as Reserves and part-time Why can't we do that when there's a fire? There's hardly ever any fires in this town. We got State fire departments all over the place here people getting paid full-time prices full-time wages and The police department if you're down to downsize the police department you could cut down on the cars They use you wouldn't have to get a new cop shop Instead of looking for one and spending all that money I Don't know. I just I just I wasn't even gonna talk tonight. I was supposed to work, but I just happened to make it But that's the biggest thing I just can't see why we have such a big fire department and a police department I just don't believe we need all that anyone else anyone else Alderman Warner, thank you honor. I move the hearings be closed Moved in second at the hearings be closed all in favor Moved in second we adjourned in the under discussion hearing none all in favor