 Welcome to JSA TV and JSA Podcasts, the newsroom for telecom and data center professionals. I'm Jean-Marc Lim and joining me today is Ward Hampton, who is helping digital infrastructure investors in their portfolio companies to find, hire and retain data center executives globally. Ward, thanks so much for talking to JSA. I mean, you're a digital nomad. I think you, I believe you're really far away at the moment. It's how you've been doing over the last two years. Yeah, I'm great. Thanks, Jao. As you rightly point out, I'm currently nestled about 10,000 feet above sea level in the Peruvian Andes. I've been here since May. I launched my business in just over two years ago now. And yeah, it's been really successful so far, really capitalizing on the tremendous growth in the data center industry over the last few years. It's amazing. And I mean, talking about running away from COVID, you couldn't have gone anywhere further. Yeah. And sometimes around here, it's so remote, I can sometimes forget there's a pandemic going on, which is, which is amazing because it does not happen in this side of the world. I can tell you that, especially now. But we'll talk about the business in a second. In terms of recruitment, what would you say are the biggest challenges in today's marketplace when it comes to defining talent? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, I'd say if we look at the recruitment life cycle, we can very broadly split that into two categories of candidate attraction and candidate assessment. And if I look at the attraction piece, that has never been more important, particularly in such a high growth buoyant industry such as data centers, which has had, let's face it, it's had a talent shortage for a number of years already. So it's never been more important to develop for companies to develop a really strong employee value proposition to ensure that they stand out ahead of the competition when they're trying to attract suitably qualified people into a hiring process. And I'd say this is definitely a problem that transcends the data center industry. But in general, companies tend to struggle when it comes to marketing their job opportunities. I think most tend to use a job description as a job advert, which, you know, they might a little clumsily add exciting opportunity at the front end of, hoping that's going to be enough. And unfortunately, in today's market, that just isn't enough. Let's face it, job descriptions are quite often quite dry, boring, overly formal documents, which generally contain a huge long list of demands that are entirely centered around what the company's looking for. And that's not the right way to attract people who aren't looking for a role. We need to start creating job adverts and job copy, which is really geared towards what's in it for the candidate. You know, that's that's marketing 101, really. We need to put job adverts and job copy together, which is used in outreach to candidates to make it attractive enough to someone who is otherwise happily employed, but is open to considering a new opportunity if it can better their current circumstances in some way. So, you know, I have a team of copywriters who really nail this and it has a huge impact on the number and quality of people I'm able to attract into hiring processes. And then, you know, the other aspect, the assessment process, then I think generally companies don't tend to train their managers how to assess people or if they do, it's not a huge focus. And, you know, there's, there's a three year study by a leadership IQ, which found that 46% of all hires fail within 18 months, which, you know, I think that tells us we've got a quite a big problem when it comes to assessing onboarding, training and managing new hires. So, I think another challenge is that there's a real over-emphasis on assessing experience, you know. Experience can be very important, but we seem to treat it as though it's directly proportional to competence, which if we think about it, we all know isn't true. It's the competencies and character traits that are the most important drivers of success. And we need to help equip hiring managers to be able to assess beyond experience and get at these things. And I think companies who can do this can get a real competitive advantage by opening up the talent pool into adjacent industries. And again, you know, from this point of view, I bring in business psychologists at the front end of the process to put together an assessment process, which enables hiring managers to do this. That's very interesting, because it really shows the shifts in the recruitment world, going from almost tick boxing exercise to really thinking about the people they are trying to target. I love the idea about the copywriting and viewing it as almost as a marketing exercise, because beyond marketing, but treating it differently from just copy and pasting a template from Google and going out and looking for people. Absolutely, and you know, the front end of the recruitment process is definitely, absolutely, it's a sales and marketing exercise. If you want to attract people into the process who are actively looking for a new job. So yeah. So especially nowadays with so much information online, I mean, you can go online and see how a company behaves and acts even before you join it. So there's a lot of considerations that employers need to take when going out and recruiting someone. But you've also mentioned the talent shortage, and you mentioned quite a lot in the answer. But my other question would be, so taking into account the talent that we've already got in the industry, how would you kind of describe the talent that we've got? Are we lacking a lot of skills? Do we need to renew some of the sectors of our industry? Yeah. So I think it's different from market to market. So if I look at what I've done over the last six years in this space, I've successfully delivered assignments in 13 countries and five continents. But there's definitely some clear trends. And I would also say one of the things I love about working with developers and operators of data centers is the variety of technical disciplines which are found within those organizations. So I've helped companies to hire into functions across the full lifecycle of a data center build, whether that's land and power acquisition, design, build, operations, right through to sales. And as well as up to CEO level, people who are managing the entire P&L of the business. So it's different in different markets, but the number one word that springs to mind when you ask me that question is definitely yours. And the biggest challenges at the moment which are pretty well known already is attracting more young people to the industry and also improving gender diversity by attracting more women into the sector. We've all read that survey from a few years back. I can't remember who it was from, maybe data center dynamic, which found that the average data center manager was a 55 year old male. And I think the fact that many of these guys are approaching retirement age really compounds this problem. So we definitely need to put together strategies to start to bring in more young people and recruit from more diverse talent pools, not only from a gender point of view, but as I touched on earlier, if we can help and equip managers to be able to assess candidates who have developed competencies in adjacent industries, then we can really open up the talent pool. And that's something that I think we need to really have a big focus on over the next few years. I mean, there's so much that we can learn from my interest. I've been around for so long, and I'm much more mature. It could be quite incredible. And I'm curious to see once events fully come back, we've had a bit of a taste of events over the last couple months. And there seems to be like a few new faces around and younger faces as well. But I can't wait to see when the events really come back and you start going out and be like, oh, all right. If you don't know half the room, that's a very good thing. Yeah, it's the old days. Whatever you went in the world, it would always be the same people. And then words from what you've been working on. So let's say over the last 24 months, how have you seen requests and interest changing from the people you work with? Because we've already touched on a lot of change, but why are people asking for that's different from before? Yeah, yeah. Well, I think for me personally, I am incredibly niche. So I maybe don't have as holistic a view on the industry as some others. But because I only work with developers and operators and the investment funds who back them. I don't work with the supply chain of the industry. And I'm even more niche within that these days, because I really prefer and enjoy to work with companies that I describe as startups or scaleups. And that's been a strategy of mine over the last few years when I saw the amount of new private equity firms and infrastructure funds who were looking to diversify away from some of the more traditional real estate asset classes and focus on the data center industry, which is outperforming other assets or other asset classes from an ROI point of view significantly. So, yeah. And again, I like to get involved at investor level, at C level, where I can work in a truly consultive way and really add value across the full life cycle of the recruitment process. And a lot of the time, these investors or really stage platforms, they're looking for senior leaders who've got significant data center experience and entrepreneurial mindset. And I often find these executives in more mature businesses, sometimes ones that have grown really quickly, either through organic development or through M&A. And there may be, if that exec's been in that company for a number of years, the whole organization has changed considerably. And some of them might be looking for something that's a little bit less bureaucratic, a little bit less retain, less internal politics, and more autonomy, ability to work at a bit more speed and agility. And yeah, and people who want to look back on their career in a few years' time, I think I really played an integral role in building a business from near scratch or from scratch. And obviously, if these people are getting significant equity holdings in these organizations, then if they get to exit, then we can be talking life-changing sums of money as well. Yeah. My answer to all that's like, don't be old, don't be old, don't be old. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, just the second part of your question, that's not going to change for me. The amount of capital coming into the industry is phenomenal at the moment, and more and more investors turning into this asset class. So they're the people I really, they're the companies I really want to help most. Yeah, we've definitely got a very long way, a very long, longer, a long row of the heads when it comes to investing in this space. And the new types of investors coming in as well, it's quite interesting. Almost on every two months, there's a new type of investor coming in. So it's very, very interesting. And I think the next five to ten years, things are going to change a lot. And I'll be an industry for everyone. There's this beauty of it still, it's still an industry for everyone, and they're still going to be for a very long time. Yeah, we're all in the right space at the moment, Joe, definitely. Yeah, the children and the grandchildren can then deal with finding an underneath. But what you only really work on a retained basis as well within your business. So why should companies take the retained option over using multiple agencies on a contingency basis? Because it seems to be the standards that people usually go for. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. I would say that is the model that most companies tend to adopt. Certainly operator level tends to be a bit different at investment fund level. But I suppose the first thing I'd say is that not everyone should, there is still a place for contingency recruitment. But in my view, not for the senior level business critical hires that I get involved in. It's pretty widely accepted that the average contingency recruiter only fills around 20% of the jobs that they work, which is not really a good advertisement for the industry. But it's also important to say that the mere fact of paying a retainer isn't going to improve things. But the search methodology of a really good retained recruiter will be radically different to that of a contingency recruiter. And in my experience and my view, so will be the results. I think one of the biggest problems with contingency recruitment, especially when there's multiple agents working on the same role, is that what should be a really organized and well thought out search, which is based on quality and good process is usually devalued to what I describe as a disorganized race based on speed. And you've got multiple agents who aren't fully committed to the process. And for the more challenging roles, when the going gets tough, they'll often give up and focus on easier assignments, where there's more chance of getting a fee. So if I compare that to what I do, I'm really low volume. So I only work on one to maximum three assignments at any one time. And because I know the company is committed to the process, committed enough to pay a retainer, it means that I can be fully committed in terms of time and starting to spend cash on the search from day one. And this approach has been really successful for me. I've successfully completed 100% of the retained search assignments I've handled since launch in the business. And some of the additional things that I'm able to invest some of that retainer back into that a contingency firm wouldn't be able to are things like bringing in business psychologists to design the assessment process, using outsourced researchers and sorting professionals to fully map markets globally. Working with the professional copywriters I've talked about earlier, that's really that really helps, you know, persuasive and compelling job copy has a huge impact. And again, you know, the business psychologists can also handle psychological assessments and even going on to the onboarding stage. So, you know, a lot of most contingency recruitment their job ends once the highest made, whereas I like to really get involved in onboarding. And so for clients who want it, I will pay for an executive career transition coach to work with the new hire and the line manager or the board. And that's with a gap that's with a aim of really improving retention rates and also, you know, fast tracking success in the role. That's very interesting because I mean, it really changes from the churning of applicants and recruitment into something a bit more bespoke, which we've seen in other industries. I mean, even just in the consumer space, we've seen companies shifting from just churning things and products into just becoming more bespoke and actually serving the needs. And the follow up is very important, especially the digital industry, the digital age. It's always about the follow up that supports that upgrade that comes after something is bought, found. It's a very interesting approach to recruitment. Yeah, yeah. And look, my whole philosophy is geared around helping people to hire long term successful employees, not just making a placement. So, yeah, that's important to me. And what you've also rebranded recently, and you made use of your name, which is quite unique. At least I don't know any other word in the world. So, tell us about the rebranding. I mean, what sparked it? What's the end product? What are people reacting like? LinkedIn seems to like it. But what's been the feedback as well? Yeah. Well, I suppose if there was an award going for the least creative business names, then I mustn't be far off because I've gone from data center recruitment to award. But joking aside, the rebrand was prompted by the fact I hired a consultant to go out and interview all of my clients and get feedback from them on exactly what their experience had been like of working with me so far and how I could improve the parts of the business as well. And a lot of the feedback coming back from the investors that I work with was that they would love it if I could help them and provide them with the same level of service but in other areas of their business. So, whether that's helping them find investment professionals with digital infrastructure experience to work fun side, or opening up in the future to be able to help their tower companies or their fiber portfolio companies. So, look, the specialism of the business is still very much data center focused. But the reason I removed data centers from the name of the business was that long term I do want to open up into these other areas. So, yeah. Future proofing of the business. And then as we start a new year, what can we expect from the ward forward? Well, my website is the way of ward. The way of ward, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, well, I suppose I'll probably answer that from the perspective of what I expect to see in the industry and then where my focus is going to lie. So, I think we all know competition for everything is going to continue to intensify. From working with investors on a day to day basis, I know there's going to be lots more M&A. I've recently arranged, for example, I've recently arranged for a very talented C level exec to help an infrastructure fund on some commercial and technical due diligence on a business in Europe they're hoping to require. The competition for land is also increasing. I was speaking with an MD in India recently, he said land prices there that were appropriate for data centres had increased by 40% in the last year alone. I think we'll continue to see the hyperscalers self-build but also to outsource, simply because they can't keep up with demand and particularly in some of those more challenging territories that they're looking to enter or expand in where they maybe don't have the local expertise or a significant existing presence. Another thing I'm seeing is a lot of the more traditional real estate developers, particularly those who work in the logistics space, who have a lot of land banks, a lot of good access to power and the added advantage that they can underwrite this land with alternative use are starting to move into this space as well. You first and foremost with the views of building powered shells, which the intendants will then fit out themselves. So yeah, everything's getting more competitive. Obviously, competition, the talent will also intensify. For me in 2022, I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing in terms of remaining very niche, really focusing on helping the infra funds, the PE firms to hire at executive level. I've started to bring a lot of the outsourced support and project teams that I use in-house. Recently hired a full-time researcher based out of India who spends 40 hours a week continually mapping the market globally, segmenting everyone within the industry into their functional expertise, which again gives me a real head start when it comes to working on specific projects. I'm just about to make another offer to someone today who's going to provide a lot of support from an administrative and social media marketing point of view as well. Okay, so it's really growing. You've got a nice little future ahead of an ex-U.D. ahead. I don't have any motivations to build a huge business, but I would definitely like to while I am definitely scaling, but I want to keep it really niche, boutique, high quality focused business. Again, I think one of the areas from working in agency recruitment for 12 years prior to setting up my business, I think one of the mistakes that a lot of those companies make is just scaling really quickly. There's the focus. Yeah, there's the focus and it's always a focus on finding the next client and the service towards existing clients tends to suffer. No, absolutely, I completely agree. Every sector should be doing a bit more of the boutique side of things, even if you're a large corporation, you should probably start adopting a bit more spoke approaching ways of dealing with people. But then what if people want to reach out or learn more, where can they go to? Well, I'm pretty active on LinkedIn and that along with referrals is where most of my relationships originate. So, if you log on to LinkedIn, you'll probably see me around there somewhere. And also, my new website, which I launched, which is thewayofward.com. Okay. Well, thank you so much. I can't wait to see how the business develops as well over the next few months and years. I'm sure it's going to be successful and we'll see where you're going to be talking to us from next time. I don't know if it's going to be 10,000 feet above sea level, but we'll see where you are when we get to it. So, thank you so much. And thank you, our viewers as well for tuning into JSA TV and JSA Podcasts. And don't forget to check our social channels for more content. Until next time, happy networking.