 Welcome to Breeder's Syndicate, the only cannabis show breaking down the myths and history in cannabis. I'm Matthew, seed maker for over a decade and a half, and this is my journey into finding my truth in this wild world of cannabis. I invite you to join me and the Canaluminati by strapping into the passenger seat, but be warned it's not always pretty. With the invasion of corporate culture into cannabis it's getting even more muddy, which is why I've made it my mission to have a permanent record before all the history is lost and buried under a pile of cookies. We're the traditional market. The Syndicate is a collection of seed makers that want to push back against all the smoking mirrors. In doing so, we will continue to ruffle the feathers of those who oppose, and my personal mission has become much bigger than myself. Welcome to the cannabis underground. This is the revolution. Welcome to Breeder's Syndicate. I'm Matthew here with my co-host, thousand-fold, and today we're going to be talking to our friend, farmer Dan from the Canaluminati. He is an operator, a part of an MSO. He does the growing and breeding there. Some of the growing, a lot of the breeding. And today we're going to be talking about a number of topics from the legal market to breeding to reversal sprays. We're going to go all over the place and I think you guys are going to enjoy this. It's a good chance to get a bird's-eye view into one of these MSOs that are large. So yeah. Yeah. So you start how we normally do start by me asking how did you become involved with the plant in your life? Yeah, so I think I started smoking weed when I was like 13. I had a buddy that had some older siblings and they would just rip us off for small sacks like constantly, just really shitty weed. Like nothing had names back then. This is like the mid-2000s because I'm 32 now. So we're going to be 32 in a few months. So I was like my high school era was like mid-2000s to 2009. And got ripped off on weed for just like, I don't know, four or five years. And then I met a buddy who, he grew some weed. He would go up during the summers to Medford and he, him and his older brother, I think, grew some really great blue cheese. That's why Matt, I think it was the first thing I ever bought from you was the blue cheese. That's right. Trying to refind that plant has been a fucking pain in the ass, dude. I bet. Because cheese is so dominant. So variant, too. Yeah, yeah. And so unpredictable. I remember I was telling you that whole run like fucking re-veged under 12-12 right in the flower, ruined the whole thing. Yep. So fucking a on that front. So that was like the first like good weed that I ever really got that I knew like where it was from and like what the name was. And he kind of started like showing me all kinds of shit about weed and like started selling me ounces. I was like 17 or 18. Because I dropped out of high school in my junior year. And then just like went on to try and do my own thing and like figure shit out. Man, you and local both started really young. Yeah, yeah. Because I started smoking at 13. So it's like now God, I've been smoking for like 20 years every day. Yeah. And so like I've seen a lot of weed just because of that duration, even though like I've only been a grower for like this is my 10th season. Yeah, you know, so. But that was the first time I got good weed was from the homey Tim, wherever you're at nowadays, somewhere up in Washington. Last I heard fucking a man, you guys had some good weed. Shout out to him. Yeah. Right. And he showed me like the first vaporizer, you know, the box that not so I was talking about. Oh, yeah. They had one of those. Is that what they call it? I can't even remember. But yeah, it's the wooden box with the heating element and the fucking tube that you just got a like rip out of. Yeah, they had the same thing they figured out. Oh, you pack like individual little, you know, one hitters in there and fucking that way doesn't taste like popcorn all the time. Yeah, it took me all the way till the last party to learn that I would pack it full like a normal bowl, just weight, waist, it tastes like ass all the way through it. Yeah, fucking terrible. It gets you something fucking high though, man. It's a different high. It's a stronger high. It comes on slow too. So you just kind of like realize how fucking lit you are. Yeah, I always find vaporize so much stronger, bro. Like and like you're saying, like for a lot of people, if they just do it once, they may not understand the high because it's not familiar to them yet. So it may not feel the same and they may not understand that they're higher. But once you get used to it, and you could do like some comparisons on on actual like flower of the same flower to different devices. It is like night and day how much different the high is and how much more impactful it is on me. Yeah, and then later on, I figured out the same thing with the volcano because I had a buddy who was a little wealthier so he could afford that like fucking $1,000 volcano or whatever it was back then. And did the bags for a while and then we figured out the same thing straight line that thing with the tube from the other baby. You know what I mean? And just straight line it right from the volcano gets so fucking lit. But the guy that had the volcano this dude, he was the first person that ever showed me you could like grow weed and like the one that I'd ever seen really do it. You know what I mean from start to finish because like he had this place out in the country. And he had two or three plants of whatever, you know, and it was fucking fire and I just helped him water it because he traveled a lot and no idea what I was doing. I think I had some like a fox farm like bloom, the tiger bloom and then like the rhizos, whatever their root thing is. I think bush doctor. Bush doctor. And I had no idea what any of that shit did and I was just like, I'm just going to add more and to start pouring more in there. I want to press on this bit like where were you getting your information? There was I didn't I like it was all available and I was just done like I wasn't like I was raised with computers for playing fucking Command and Conquer and Starcraft like I didn't know that you could like seek out information on the internet because like I was in that generation that was right on the cusp right and so like there was a lot of elements of how people older than me like grew up and went to school like looking up shit in the library and like because like they wouldn't let you use sources from online yet. You know what I mean? And so you had to go and look up books and check them out and like write the bibliography by hand and shit and like we had computer class on just like computer literacy, you know, but then by the time I graduated high school, they were on like iPhone two and Facebook was out and you know, and so like I was in that weird generation that kind of had like the full nineties experience and then also like the full like 20 teens and being old for all that. Yeah. Yeah, but you grew up fucking just raising sheep and shit. So I remember the first student high school that had a cell phone at my high school, like there was one guy that had a cell phone and it was like this big. Yeah. You had to pay him 10 bucks to use it if you wanted to use it from school. But like that guy was like a gangster, you know, one dude that had the phone. Yeah, I was in like middle school for like my space and the razor flip phone and shit. Like that was like the first time camera phones were around and like people were like, Oh, look at this girl's titties. You know what I mean? Like it's like the most pixelated like 200 by 200 pixel image. I think I see a I think I see a boob in there. Kids getting their like phone stolen during PE, you know? Oh, yeah. I used to steal those phones, dog. So like I was a poor kid at like a pretty affluent, like city, you know what I mean? In high school, it was a nice school for sure. That's what you don't want to be. No, for real, I was a total fucking loser. Like, yeah, anyone that knew me was just like such a fucking loner kid. Like I had friends and stuff, but it was all the other kids that didn't fit into a certain group. Yeah. I mean, and so we became stoner kids, you know what I mean? And but yeah, so actually I had a homie whose dad grew some weed when we were in high school too. He had like a little indoor with like two or three lights in it. And I saw it like one time. I was gonna say, do you actually let you see it as a kid? Yeah, they were some fucking deadhead types, you know what I mean? So they also were like my first view into like the actual culture behind the scene too, because like they were from that whole touring deadhead. Like they'd both been on tour for I think like a couple years at a time, like him and his wife. Yeah. And they were also like addicts of other or ex addicts of other types, you know what I mean? So they were they were a little looser with the Laker cabinet and like, you know, fucking letting us smoke weed there and show everybody's favorite parents. Kind of like not even my homie's favorite parents. He had it so good, but acted like it was so bad, you know, yeah, I had a friend like that whose parents would let us do whatever the fuck we wanted, but he used to spoil these is like whatever. Yeah. Yeah. I had another friend like that where we actually partied the most and like his parents were like, they're really nice people, but like they I was like, why the fuck are you buying liquor for like 16 year old kids? Super overly permissive. Yeah, you're like a broken person in your own right for for doing that. Like, you know, I mean, I'm a chill dad, but I'm not going to be buying fucking liquor for 16 year olds. There is that divide of like when you're when you're like 16, those kind of dads are super cool, but like as you get older, you realize, man, what a fucking link went, bro. It was his mom too, bro. Oh, man. Yeah. It was so it was a it was a weird whole thing. Did you pound her out? No, no, that's not permissive. No, no, no, no. And she she was like a really, really nice lady. She was in kind of like a shitty marriage and like, you know what I mean? Sounds like it. Yeah. Yeah. There's like a whole backstory behind that shit that I was like only kind of like recognized more as an adult. And I was like, oh, that was fucked up. Yeah. You know, yeah. I mean, while you're looking back at this point, like, you know, you mentioned to us that school was maybe not the easiest environment for you. Yeah. And but, you know, you encountered like your friend's parents and they had they kind of like, you know, you got introduced to this culture when you're looking back at it now. Do you are you surprised that you came down this path? It makes sense to a certain degree, but there's also like so many fork in the roads that like or forks in the road that I like like have recognized looking back where I'm just like, oh, man, my life would be so different if I had just like gone that way instead. You know, like my first like real industry job for like a place that was quote unquote going legal, you know, like I also had a lab manager position at a UC campus in a tissue culture lab like on the table ready to go. They were like, it's your job if you want it, you know, and I was like, oh, but I could make the same amount of money, which was not enough. Like being a nursery manager for these other guys in L.A. And so it was just more glamorous, you know, and I was dumb and fucking, you know, everyone in weed gets that main character syndrome where they like think they're the center of the fucking world. And like with the circles that I ran in for a long time, like it was just bound to happen. You know, that's kind of like one of the things that I talk about with the guys on the server is just like you can become like a real piece of shit if you follow that rabbit hole far enough, you know, because there's more of them than there is good people in this industry. Yeah, there's there's always plenty of people to shine your balls. There really are. If you're willing to give people stuff free or they're there, they have this impression that that being your friend will take them far. There will always be people in lying to tell you you're amazing. Hundred percent. You or someone comes along that they feel is more advantageous or anything like that. You will get dropped like that. I think that's an experience I wish everyone would experience, because it's super humbling and it is some of the best perspective to be to really, really have your ego dropped hard. I think it's a good thing. Yeah, that was me, man. Like I was one of those idiots that went out to Oklahoma and tried to like make it big because we thought we were so small. And like we got we got out there earlier than other people, you know what I mean? This first year and a half, I was fucking really good money. And then like we ate it hard after that, you know what I mean? And it was really humbling because it's like when you when you are at the top of your game and you're making bank and pulling those fucking multi thousand pound grows off and shit, like you're everyone wants to be your fucking buddy. Everyone's yeah, sucking your dick and just like, oh, you're so fucking cool, man. And then like when you fall, like you realize you have no fucking friends. Yeah, I kind of left. But before we get to this like juicy bit, tell me more about your like earlier grows just to get us warmed up. Yeah, yeah. Oh, there's so much more, man. Yeah. So like I did the grow with my buddy in my hometown out in the country. And then afterwards, the next season, that was like the two fifteen era, so you could just go into fucking Sacramento by Trey Clones, go right back out to your grow and plant some all kinds of stuff. Who knows if it was real or not. But like I bought like 30 or something like that and we were like, well, we can do three. Let's do 30 and we plant them all out. And I like wrote it till this patch and I have way over a tremendous dry. And I literally take these clones from the tray and I just stick them right into the dirt in this open field in farm country. And like I leave for the weekend and he's supposed to be taking care of them. And I get back and he's like, oh, they all died. I'm just like, what? What do you mean? You know, but I didn't know anything. You know, I was like fucking 20 years old. He didn't know shit. Yeah. And I literally just took a clone and put it in the soil outside and didn't think it would fucking die. You know, you know, I had that same kind of logic green, a green thumb to me was hard earned. You know what I mean? Like nothing came natural to me. I suck at this. And yeah, I've had to work. So I guess. And it's what's funny is that I like try and do like, you know, be a mentor to some of the younger guys that see coming up in the industry and stuff and people that want to make this their life for some stupid fucking reason. And it was at least glamorous when I fucking got into it. There you go. I don't see what these young people see in it now. Well, there's yeah. OK. I mean, I at least like you want to tell us about how you got from that like early stage, you know, towards like where you are now. Oh, just give me give me some time, brother. I got plenty of stories to tell you go. Yeah. So then like I did my community college thing as like, you know, high school drop out. I got all my transfer credits and shit took way too fucking long. And I think by twenty two or twenty three, I moved up to Humboldt. And then I stayed up there. I transferred to Humboldt State and I did some stupid shady shit with just like changing majors last minute once I got there. And I'm like, I'm in the botany program. I know I don't have any pre-rex, but like I'm going to study botany and went into that because I didn't know what I wanted to do at that point. I wasn't like that into plants. Like I knew I was into agriculture, but like I didn't want to do all the work to get into like UC Davis or like Cal Poly, because it's like you basically have to do like all your college like at the community college and then you just do your last year at there. And I'm like, well, what am I really going to get out of that? If I'm just spending like one year on campus actually learning from these people. It's supposed to be networking and that's it. Yeah, right. Yeah. And I wanted the information. I still don't give a shit about networking, man. Like I just wanted the info and like I didn't I wasn't savvy enough to just like go out and teach it to myself. You know, I had just gardened like a little bit. I grew those few plants, but like I was not like horticulturally inclined at all. So I moved up to Humboldt. I start the botany program and I got a job at the hydro shop up there in McKinleyville, because that's where I was living. And anyone that's lived up there knows North Coast Hydroponics, any NHS. I think that's right. And Steve Gearder and all those guys. And that was kind of like my first intro into like the real industry, because like I'd lived in Humboldt for like six months. And I was like, there's no fucking weed here. I don't know what everybody's talking about, because like I wasn't in any circles, you know what I mean? I was an outsider in the college town. And so like I wasn't keyed into anything yet. And so like getting into the hydro shop really just like I learned what it's like really about, you know what I mean? Yeah, I started meeting some like actual growers and like people that did this for a living. And it was like so fucking scary back then as like an outsider, you're just like, whoa, like that dude just bought like fucking $20,000 worth of soil and he paid for it in 10s. Yeah, right. And you have to have run a money counter like for there on the register and just like blow through these fucking bricks of 10s to fucking that this guy gave you to pay for fucking soil. That's funny, dude. And I remember one time I questioned a dude and I'm like, why is it all 10s? And he's like money's fucking money. And I was like, OK, yeah, yeah. But I was a dumb question like to someone that just gave you $20,000. That's a dumb ass question to be like, why is it in 10s? Yeah, I mean, like growers and yeah, yeah. I didn't know I was just so inexperienced. Yeah. Yeah. And so like I grew. I started slowly piecing together like a little mini homegrown set up, you know. And I like really tiptoed my way into it and like I bought a little light and I started growing houseplants on it. It was like a four bolt T5. And then I got some stupid all in one where like the ballast is like in this fucking metal housing with like a 400 watt light. And so it's just hot as shit. And I remember I took all my student loan money. Like I would get this big chunk and I lived with the girl that's now my wife up there. And I would give. I would get my student loan money. I would fucking pay the rent for like six months just right off the bat. Be like, this is rent money set aside. And I had like 1500 bucks left. It's just supposed to be like all my living money for a few months for the semester. You know, and I took it and I blew it all on fucking growing equipment. Of course, yeah, I mean, I I think like for those of you who started on this so early, I mean, when you're so young, like going back to what you were saying earlier, that the feeling of power must be really intoxicating. A hundred percent, especially as like a poor fucking nobody that was like never popular and like never cool for any good reason. Like when you like start pumping out like some decent weed even back then, like, yeah, you made a lot of friends once again, like shallow ass friends, but you know, you see, you feel cool for once, you know. And so it is intoxicating and it ropes you in. And then you start seeing other things that are like a bigger version of what you're doing. And you're like, well, I'm going to do that, you know. And so like I fucked around. I grew some like organic, quote unquote organic, running some like roots, organic stuff. That's a whole side story because I ended up meeting that guy when I lived in Eugene, the guy that like founded that company and like shopped at his hydro shop and like talk to him pretty regularly. Another classic fucking guy in the industry, you know what I mean? Yeah, he just made a fucking ton of money. I think he sold to some some big agrochemical company or to sunlight supply or something like that. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, so he just cashed out. But I grew actually some really good weed at that point. I was just getting clones from HBRC, which is like the I think it's one of the oldest collectives in California that's still running. It's an arcade. It sure is. Yeah. And it's like right around the corner from this barber shop that my wife used to run. That's where a lot of people got the train wreck cut from. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I actually got quite a few clones from there that like looking back and like seeing the same thing later on. I was like, oh, that was the real thing. Like I didn't question provenance because like in humble to that point cuts were pretty free flowing. Yeah. Even in like the mid 20 teams. Like you could just ask for it. I grew a lot of blue dream. I was like when I first fell in love with and that's way after its era ended, like it had already like mids itself out of oblivion. Yeah, but 2010 it was already like a wrap. Yeah, yeah. And so this is like twenty fifteen, fourteen, fifteen. And so like I started growing it and I was bringing it back down to the Sacramento area and like we were selling like two hundred fifty three hundred dollar ounces of it because like people were already a little nostalgic about it. And it was like just like really good small batch blue dream. And it's easy to grow. Like I didn't know that at the time. I thought we were just the best growers. You know, we had it all figured out. You just add a little bit more boot of boot of bloom and and it's all Gucci. Yeah, right? Like, yeah, yeah, you're right, dude. So fucking dumb. And so I'm working at this hydro shop. I'm growing my little fucking one lighter, you know what I mean? Six hundred watt ten. And I'm fucking the whole thing up. Like every time I go away from the blue dream, I fuck it up. Like I grew Bubba once and I harvested it at like fucking 50 days and it was just like larve. I don't like. I mean, it wasn't that bad. There was worse ones, you know what I mean? Like even blue dream. I was taking way too early. I was taking it at like fifty six and little did I know I could have gotten, you know, like 30 percent more yield yet letting it go those last few weeks. You know, fucking clue. Really blue dream, though, like if you can get it really early and you're going real well, you can come out super berry and it's so nice. Yeah, it's the berry notes. And I even like the high from early blue dream, whereas I also like the high a lot from like a 10 week blue dream. But yeah, like the berry flavors are all there at seven. So yeah, exactly. And that's kind of what I noticed, too. I was like, well, it looks full and it smells amazing and it's coated in resin. Like I'm just going to take it. Like how much more is it going to get by day fifty six or sixty three? You know, like you have no fucking idea how this actually works. Yeah. And so I'm getting like three quarter pound of light and I'm like, fuck, yeah, you're right. Crushing it just a few more days. But I ended up meeting this dude that became my like business partner. I mean, I worked for him for a long time. And by the end, I was like one of his business partners. And he brought me into work on his like working out of a clone house. And so it was just like a condo in one of the towns up there. And it was like two sides and what a dude lived in one and had a bedroom. But there was like a mom room in there. And then the whole other side was just like mom rooms and fucking clone racks and shit. And like I think I was making like fifteen dollars an hour. You know what I mean? Like cutting clones in this illegal clone house. But they pumped them out, man. And like they were just feeding guys on the hill. And so like I think we had OG sour diesel. We had this cut that the monk called Platinum Kush. I've talked to you about that, Matt. It's just some unknown baby shit smelling resin coated super easy to grow plant that I'm never going to see again. And a girl scout because that had like just started trickling through more. And it was like I was for sure the forum cut looking back on it now. But it was so it was so nice, you know, it was actually a really nice cut. Easy to grow again. I mean, that's why so many seed makers using cookie stuff because anybody can make crosses of stuff and it looks like cookies and it's all super easy to grow. And everybody looks like a pro. Well, everyone says it's low yielding. And I'm like, oh, well, that tells me you fucked it up because you gave it full strength light, full strength newts. And it still looks beautiful. And it still smokes good. But the yield is like half. Yep. You know. And so it's it was still nice though. And so that would be like that's why I never knew about like the hyper of cuts while I was up there is that like everyone I worked with and knew was just like wholesalers and like like wholesale farmers and like they were selling shit that had to go back east. And so like they would have their gardens like when they would sell their clone when we would sell clones of them, it would be like half OG, half sour. And then maybe like they would save like 10 or 15 percent for the cookies just to like feed that local California Bay Area market and shit. That's interesting. But like it wasn't a big thing. And so like it was just another offering that people would put like at most like 30 percent of their garden, you know. And so I never really thought that much of it. It was just like another cut. I didn't know that there was this like wave of shit happening down in the bay that would like dictate the industry till today, you know. Yeah, that's weird. Yeah, I didn't know about other OGs. I didn't know that there was like other versions of cuts. You know, there was just one OG kush in the crew that I ran with. And it was a good one. I've never seen it again since like they called it a Florida like when I pressed at some point I heard it was a Florida OG and that's all I ever learned about it. And so maybe Florida I've never actually seen. Yeah, like verified and in flower in front of me or flowering. But yeah, a great sour cut, a good headband, which was probably the Lumpas when I think back on it. Because when I had them all side by side, I remember thinking that it looked like a perfect halfway point between the sour and the OG we had. Yeah, it's to me, it's like a camo G or sour OG. Definitely. It's just right down the middle. It's big yielding, big colas. It does the leaf cannibalism thing that came that he wanted us to. Yeah, it always kind of looked like shit on like not good farmers too. And even on the best runs, it didn't know it didn't really look amazing. It was just something that threw down like colas, it got you weight. Potent too. Yeah, yeah. And it sold, you know what I mean? It was just one of those things that it was just like, oh, if I grow a couple of hundred pounds of this, like I have a guy that'll buy that. Yeah, for sure. And so. Lance, did you take to yourself personally in that period? I really liked the Blue Dream. I grew a lot of the cookies too. We had a chocolate hashberry cut that we grew. I think that's from that that dude, purple caper or whatever down in the bay. It was actually pretty nice. I remember it fondly. It was like a chocolatey strawberry type nose, really easy to grow like purple frosty weed. It made great hash. But it just smelled like chocolate. Like as it aged in the bag, like it was just like, what does that smell like? And anyone you put it up to would be like, oh, that's chocolatey, you know, interesting. So it was chocolate. Yeah, yeah, like milk chocolatey. Yeah, it was really nice. But like like a milk chocolate strawberry like blended smoothie or like a milkshake kind of thing. That's like what I got from it. Awesome. And then I actually really like three Kings when it was going around. Yeah, that was a good one. OG sour headband. I don't know how it was mashed together in what way. I don't think anyone does. No. But it was fucking fire. And it was way easier to grow than any of its three components. Yeah. And you could pass it as like a few. You know, you could pass it as a headband or a sour type kind of thing. You know what I mean? And it was way easier to grow. And so I actually really missed that cut. It's one of the things that I've like wanted to pitch to certain people on the crew to be like, hey, you want to remake this for me? You know, I just don't think like if it was remade. What I what it reminds me of some of the stuff Elite Genetics released, not like cannabis, but Elite Genetics back in the day. And a lot of that stuff was not quite what he said, but some of it was so fucking dank that nobody really cared. You know, just good ashes. That cut does still go around. I'll keep an eye out for it. I mean, it was a good cut. It was a really good cut. One year I brought it to the Dunn cup for an OG entry because it was good. Yeah, yeah. No, I really liked that one. I couldn't like, I couldn't get anyone else to fucking grow it around me. So like I was trying to sell clones of it and I was just like, not going to fucking happen. But like, while I was working for the clone guys, like we did this whole thing where like we had more orders than we could fill. And so we started crapping up. We call them franchises. And like, we would just like set up in another person's house and their gross setup. And as long as you sold them to the guy I worked for, you know, he would cut you in, you know, like five out of the $8 a cut. And then he would take the other three. And so it was a great way to just like move bulk cuts if you didn't have your own market, but you could set up a clone room for like 800 bucks, you know. Yeah, that sounds amazing. Yeah. And so I remember one year or one month in particular, I fucking blew out like 10 Gs worth of clones out of my fucking back bedroom while I was in college. Like full-time student working at the clone house, doing all the things, like taking whatever work I could pick up cause like fucking broke and supporting myself. And I ended up pulling together like 10 grand in a single month just from selling trays. Like it was fucking epic. You just want to hook in a nursery, huh? Yeah, bro, I was hooked like instantly. I was just like, oh, this is the type of money you can make. And even like selling clones, it's like if I had a buyer for clones and brought them to like the guys I worked with, they were like, oh yeah, I'll fill that 300 clone order and I'll give you two bucks a cut, you know, to just like do the sale and everything. And so like you could literally take an hour, go load up some clones and drive them across town and make like $1,000. Easy. Yeah. And so it was just easy money for me back then. And like I got into that whole lifestyle just like easy come, easy go. And so you just start blowing money. It's what everyone around you does. And you know, like bought a bunch of cool guns and like bought a bunch of fucking, bought a nice truck eventually. And like, you know what I mean? Like all the stupid shit that you waste money on. Oh, trust me. I know, High on Lonesome calls in my boner toys. Yeah, yeah. What are you doing with your boner toys? One side question. Why is that reversal bottle so fucking black on your desk there? So because these are super concentrated, it's not like ready to spray. Yeah. What I've learned is over time the plastic bond or the silver bonds to the plastic to some degree. So I always like account for it. But yeah, what's weird is they can be sitting next to each other. You could have two bottles sitting next to each other, the same temperature for a month. Yeah. One will do it, one won't. It's so bizarre to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, a little silver oxides. Yeah, this is a highly concentrated. This is like a thousand X bottle. Oh, OK, that explains it. Because I've been looking at it while we've been talking. And I'm just like, what the fuck is that? Yeah, but a lot of my sprays are so highly concentrated, like with silver, that this isn't uncommon to see it super dark like this, even in the normal ones. But this is a thousand X, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, so I got accustomed to that lifestyle, accustomed to just having cash in my pocket and like fucking being like even just being like middle class as far as like 60 grand a year made me feel fucking rich. And this is like what, your early 20s? Yeah, I'm still in like my mid 20s. Yeah, like I think I'm like 20 or 25 by this point. You know, yeah. And so like we did that for a few years while I was in school, you know, and like I would help out on outdoor farms, like just being extra labors, fucking dig in holes, being a water boy, as Caleb calls it. And yeah, man, like just fucking putting in my dues, just trying to make money and meet people and like get further and all this shit. And I did like I had a friend who was like building a legal grow because Humboldt County legalized before the state did like the year before because they kind of saw the writing on the wall that like the state's going to legalize soon. And they're like, well, we're going to get the county licensed ahead of time. So we're ahead of this and it like puts on everyone at like an advantage over the rest of the state that like we already have county authorization. So now all you have to do is do your state paperwork, get your licensing and you're good to go. It didn't fucking work out that way. OK, it basically made everyone dry snitch on themselves and just like just not even dry fucking full on to snitch yourself out to the county because if you didn't register your illegal grow with the county by a certain date, they would never give you a license on that property ever. Mm hmm. And so basically most people that like wanted to go legal went and outed themselves to the county and then you're just like a dot on a map that they like know to fly over, know to fucking check in on. You know what I mean, like it kind of put all those people it like expedited the slow like exodus of farmers from that whole area, you know, man, there's like a deep irony to that, isn't there? Yeah, yeah. And well, that's honestly like the industry in a nutshell is all the people that like went above and beyond like kind of got fucked early on, especially the smaller mom and pop grows that were like, we want to do this right and we want to come out of the shadows. Like they kind of all got made an example of by like people like Fish and Game and the Water Board and like a lot of people are going to say, you know, they didn't want people in the mountains. They're like, you got to move your farm to the fucking bottom lands. And it's like, bro, you know how expensive that is? Like some small farmers living in a cabin off grid and humble, they're not going to be able to fucking do that, you know? Yeah, because I was going to say like if this were a movie, I imagine that would be a point of like serious foreshadowing. Yeah, yeah. No, for sure. It'd be like the ominous moment of everybody like reluctantly coming up and putting their name on the fucking ledger, you know, that it's just like you're on the fucking list now. And so it was just like bad times up there. And so like my buddy that was building this legal grow for these rich dudes out of L.A. And that whole thing ended up falling apart after like a few months. But like I worked there for a while, I cut clones for them. And just like did my whole thing that I was already doing, just like nursery work. But I wrote I ended up writing a like ag management contract for them. And like, I didn't know anything about how to do this. I just like went online and like pulled some contracts together, found some other like publicly listed contracts that like real like companies use and kind of just like hodgepodge together, this like ag management contract for him to present to these people that he was like building this farm for. And it caught the attention of this one dude that I ended up working for who is doing all their compliance work. This is my homie, Jason. Jason's still out there. Shout out to that dude fucking working his ass off. He's a runs a private consulting company with these people and humble and helping out weed grows all over the country. So fucking Jason, you're still my boy. Shout out to Jason. Yeah, he got me my first like real gig in the industry. That wasn't just like Waterboy, you know what I mean? Fucking clone cutter. All that all those kind of lower tier jobs. And he got me a gig managing the nursery work for this group down in L.A. I don't know if they want to be named or not, but they're they're a current legal brand now. Not like a huge one, but, you know, like known and they had just fucking indoors all over L.A. And they had a few dispensaries like they were these like kind of older dudes that I think they had set up one of the first dispensaries in the San Fernando Valley. And so like they had they had money, you know, and they had these big ass indoors all over L.A. And like, I think the smallest one, I think was like over 100 lights, you know? And then the larger ones were like two to 400 lights and something like that, maybe two to 300 lights. And that was like my first time like operating at scale and like a more management type position where it's just like I got all their genetics in check because they were having a lot of bug and infestation issues. And so I just went in there with a little TC tech started washing plants and bleach before I cloned them out to kill all the mites, kill all the aphids and all that bullshit. Like get a system together to like clean up the clones in the mom so then like we can cycle out all the rooms and start filling them with clean clones instead of all these rude aphids and shit. And so just like help them out. You were like a serious pro by this point, it sounds like. And how old were you again? I was I was like fake it till you make it pro, you know what I mean? Like I was dropped way in over my head and they were like, I need help. And like if you can do it industry go for it, you know, the whole industry. Like realistically, when when commercial came about, think about how many of us like really knew how to run more than 20 lights. Yeah, really. There was some but not some but not enough to fill up all the grows through Oklahoma, Michigan, like all. So realistically, there were a lot of people that had to stick up their hands and just have the faith in themselves to get this done and most of them couldn't, you know. Yeah, yeah, I was just following in the footsteps of the guys. I saw in Humboldt and I like stole their recipes and are not stole. You know, I already had them. They'd given them to me, but just like use their recipe, try and modify it. They were trying to do a bunch of LED grows with like the first gen fluent spiders and those were like pretty challenging because like I didn't really understand like what cannabis wanted for like, you know, PPFD or like how many micro moles of light, you know, coming down on the canopy that it actually wanted because like the old Gavita six, seven, fifties. They're all you're only getting like 400 at canopy height. Yeah, way less by the time you hit the bottom of the plant. But like there was a lot of older cuts that still like that, you know, like Bubba and OG, they like that range still, you know, from everything that I've seen with our experimentation. But like those like make a new comment here, which is that you constantly hear people say that like there is a target. There's just like a PPFD that's like a magic number, like a thousand for all plants. Yeah, full time or all straight. So it's nice. It's really nice. And my experience has really strained against that whenever I've tried to do that, some of my plants have just suffered really intensely. So it was just really nice to hear someone just, you know, be explicit and just say like, obviously some plants are not going to enjoy that. You know, no, man, I've seen it at scale in a million different ways now that like certain plants do not want like a modern amount of light as far as like how grow rooms are set up and just grid it out with lux thousand watts. Some plants don't respond well to that. They don't want the three OEC from Athena. It actually makes them larpher and like shittier overall than it ever even does like dense. Like I saw Bubba recently grown like that and it was larpher. And then I had it at a different facility in a different whole different set up in circumstance. And like it was shaded out by this canopy and I was doing this breeding project and it came through so fucking nicely. You know what I mean? Like it was so fucking perfect. And I was like, dude, it doesn't want any light at all. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Have you guys heard of Bruce? Bruce Bugby? I think that's his name. Sounds familiar. He's he's like this kind of academic, I believe, who who kind of got big on YouTube. Yeah. And one of the main things he's known for is kind of like trying to tell people that there is this one DLI this one PPFD number that you should always hit. Yeah, most of us never really like, yeah. One of the ones that were queen. Like with anything in growing, people are just like, yeah, that's the answer now. Cool. Well, so I've got actually some good anecdotal, like just a good anecdote about this is that like I've met quite a few like PhD students and stuff that are like doing research in Canada. And I've talked with some of these people and they have all these claims and they'll make claims like, oh, freeze drying doesn't affect the quality of the weed. And I'm just like, well, did you smoke it? Yeah, right. No, we didn't. But in all measurable ways, it's identical. And I'm just like, yeah, but you didn't fucking smoke it, dude. That's literally the only point of all of this. And you like negated that whole thing because it's not proper or measurable in a way that you can like makes it have like make and show is statistically relevant. But that's like literally the whole goal is to have it be enjoyable smoke and have the consumer want to buy it again. So what the fuck are you telling me that you did the research and you didn't do the one thing that everyone's going to do with the product that you're presenting me? You know, like, yeah, go fuck yourself. Where it's like, I guess, you know, in science, like you construct the model and then you make hypotheses based on that model. But then later on, you actually need to check the fit of the model to reality. Yeah, otherwise. Yeah, do even see junkie. He just posted on this the other day on IG about like what's like trying to like set up a debate about pros and cons of freeze drying. And I'm like, bro, you trying to outsource your thinking to the fucking public? Yeah. Yeah. Someone's been getting shopped or someone's been shopping for fucking freeze dryers recently doesn't know what call to make, you know. But yeah, man, there is no magic quantity of fertilizer in any quantity or like or like ratio. There's no magic DLI that all plants or all strains want, you know, they mean like they're all if you think like that, you've only been growing since the modern kickoff of everything being fucking the same because like gelato hybrids don't mind those high DLI's and fucking high EC feeds at all. Like they love it. They will give you more weight and like a nicer expression and all that. And so it's easy when you have a plant that like you give more gas and it gets bigger, but like some plants don't fucking respond that way. Yeah, I love that the way they acclimated to commercial growing. And that's yeah, or was selected under those pressures. And that's what I always tell people is that like, bro, OG doesn't want this. It was selected in the fucking 90s under a 600 watt adjust a wing in like an 85 degree fucking room, you know what I mean? And someone got it. Yeah, someone babyed the shit out of it to get the expression that they wanted from it, you know, and that's how it was selected. And so like that's obviously what it fucking prefers. And so whenever people tell me they're not getting the OG expression they want, I'm like, I don't know, throw it in some fucking black gold potting soil, feed it some Dynagrow or some cutting edge and just leave it the fuck alone and don't touch it and don't try and add any like magic sauce to it. Just like leave it alone. Like give it the bare minimum and it'll come through for you. And nobody believes me. Yeah, you know, it just takes time with a lot of people. It's the same thing like when people ask me when you select a male, like, what are you looking for? Well, you know, like, how do you answer that? Like, if you really know how it's done, like, depends on the project, but people want solid answers. And if you give them something more open ended, they'll go to someone else to get a solid answer. That's what I found. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Before we get too off topic, I got more stories to tell, man. I got a long. Let's bring it back to the time. So it's 2018. I'm like 27 when I'm in LA. I think I turned 27 out there because I I moved in January. And so I'm working with these guys at this just like epic scale. We're having a good time. I'm making good money, not for LA, though. Like I was paying like fucking three grand a month in rent. You know, real quick. I just want to ask you what your mindset was at this point as like a young man, like, I'm going to get rich and famous. It's not growing up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like, like I had so many job offers by that point, just because I was working in a place and was like publicly advertising that I like did cannabis at scale. I was getting job offers fucking constantly. I had people wanting me to like move to fucking Columbia at that point because things were just kicking off down there, which is like a total fucking scam. I had canna bros from fucking Canada coming down with their fucking funny money, offering me a bajillion dollars in stock and like 60 grand a year to come fucking move to Panama and like manage their grows worldwide and shit. Like company didn't exist like eight months later. You know what I mean? Like so many fucking pump and dump schemes going on at that point. But I was just like honing the blades, but I had a big old fucking ego just that like, oh, I've made it. I'm going to be fucking rich. I'm going to be this famous fucking weed grower like all these bros I see on IG because like I had just discovered like the jungle boys. And like at that point, like symbiotic genetics was really big. And so like Purple Punch was making the rounds of Banana Punch and all those. I actually popped those seeds when I first moved there to LA. So I was like, I bought these seeds. You guys want to grow them? And they're like, yeah, I guess. And I found it like such in one pack. I found such a nice cut of Mimosa. I still have pics of that one. I can post it up on the server, but just like gorgeous purple weed coated in resin, smelled like grape candy and tangy and just like it was like a perfect middle of the road between Purple Punch and Tangy or whatever he used in that cross. But yeah, I was just kind of like fumbling my way through like modern genetics. Like I met so many people down there at that point that were just trying to like hand me fucking clones of so much shit. And I had no idea what I had on the table. You know what I mean? Like all the shit that all the modern bros would just like fucking die for. And it was just all around and I didn't know any better. Like they had so many old different cuts of OG from NorCal. And like, I don't know, a bunch of stuff that I'm still not that keen on. Like, what's that fucking cut called? The Starfighter. I had a buddy that had like the Starfighter, all those Starfighter cuts. And he actually had like a ton of shit. I've tried to reconnect with this one dude because he was he was like the first genetics nerd that I ever really met. You know, Jimmy down there and he was one of the growers for these guys. And he brought in so many gorgeous fucking cuts. He was totally up to date on all the seed junky shit and was like growing gelato packs that like seed junkie had released. And like, because I'm pretty sure he released a line called G 33. Right. Do you remember that, Matt? Who did? Who did seed junkie? Didn't didn't he take those cuts and like work them somehow and just release it as though he very well could have for all I can't remember. I don't want to put that on him like that dude gets enough shit as it is. But yeah, he works with pigs. Yeah. You didn't listen to first smoke of the day. They cover all that, man. Oh, good, bro. I love that. Yeah, I had to turn that shit off. Like I was just like, do I really want to listen to these dudes? Just suck these guys fucking dicks for an hour and a half. He's like, no, I don't. It's just product placement fucking podcast, though. It's just like literally here to promote a brand, promote a guy, build the hype, sell. I mean, that's what high times was, and it was successful for years. You know, it's paid advertisement in the form of a magazine that people think isn't paid. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that's why like some people think that this podcast is this giant like revenue creator and I'm like, sorry to bring it to you guys. Yeah, this is this is a passion project. Yeah, far from it. Yeah, I've learned in this industry, like real information does not pay the fucking bills like hype fucking lies and just like renames that pays the fucking bills. Yeah, I mean, being where you're at. And I mean, you understand you've had the journey of the smoke and mirrors. And maybe you can talk about like through your stories. Do you have a story about like one of those experiences early on when you first started seeing some of the smoke clear? Fuck, dude, I was too dumb. I was way too dumb. Like the smoke didn't clear for me until I crashed and burned. And like it literally like the fire stopped. That's when the smoke cleared. And I was like, oh, I've been a fucking idiot for like eight years. You know what I mean? Well, it's my business point. I want to see. Yeah, yeah. So the LA guys were cool. I just like wasn't making enough money to live down there. You know what I mean? I was like going into debt working for them kind of thing. And we were both working full time jobs. Me and my wife and like we weren't married yet. But like we were just like not doing well financially there. And the same guy I used to cut clones for was like, yo, I'm working with this dude now and he's fucking blown up big time. Like, why don't you come grow outdoor for us up in Oregon? And I'm like, fuck, yeah, anything to get me out of this shithole. Because like I lived in East LA in Silver Lake. My apartment was fucking so expensive. It was just not the vibe. Like I came from fucking McKinleyville to East LA. You know what I mean? Very different. I'm like wearing car hearts and beat up jeans and shitty clothes and just like fucking driving my old beater pickup and like fucking everyone around me is just like BMWs, mansions, fucking like the glamour of SoCal. And I was just like, I'm not into this shit, man. I don't need to see shows every weekend. I don't want to go to fucking art exhibits all night and like hang out with people I don't fucking know. Like I want to smoke weed and drink beer and talk shit. You know what I mean? That's what I'm saying. Yeah, like that's all I really want to do. And if we're doing that in the fog belt, like that's just all the better. You know what I mean? Yeah, right? But so I go up to fucking Eugene. Like on a fucking whim, you know what I mean? I met these dudes one time. I flew up there to they flew me up to like make a deal. Now I'm like, cool, I'll run your fucking outdoor grow. And we're quote unquote growing hemp. This is the 2018 era. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oregon legalized hemp. So I basically hit every fucking like douchey bro state and move. I've done every single fucking one of them. Like I know so many people that did though. Like that's not uncommon for sure. No, I everyone I knew was doing the same thing. And so it was just like it seemed like the move to make money and like, oh, you can't grow weed in the woods. A Humboldt anymore because they fucking they're just flying like crazy. They're using GIS to like just automatically find the fucking weed farms with a computer and automatically send notices to your fucking gate. That's like you're in $10,000 a day fine for you not being in compliance. And so like, yeah, the writing was on the wall for me, you know, there was still a few years that people managed to make it work. But like I kind of moved on and we did the whole thing out there. That was just Eugene was fucking scandalous times. That was like the beginning of the end ultimately, but I didn't know it because it was still a few years out. But like working for those guys, it was just like fucking big time work, fully illegal, fully black market, like, you know, interstate shit. Just like it was it was big time and I'll not I'll spare the details on this shit because I don't think that that statute of limitations is up. But um, but like we got flown so fucking hard, bro. Like I cut down an acre of hoops and like fucking one one afternoon. And transported it all to the separate facility to fucking dry it all. And like we pulled off this fucking like, I don't know, it was like a meager, like 1200 pound fucking season, but it should have been like fucking like 4,000 pounds if we had actually let it go. But you know, when you've got a helicopter, a blacked out helicopter with a giant fucking camera flying 50 feet over your greenhouses, ripping skins off of them, like, you know, that it's just a matter of time before they come back, you know what I mean? And like fucking all harvest 10 or 14 days early. I don't give a shit getting something's better than nothing. And so we did all right that year. The quality was like not great. That was kind of like the beginning of my decline in growing good weed and like kind of just being like a mid sky that just like grew at massive scale. And we took all that money from fucking Oregon and some other shit because sorry, ice cream cake, man, fuck tons of ice cream cake. I don't know if anyone else caught it, but I was talking to local on one of the channels and and we had our long lost plug connection because like we used to supply a lot of shit out to where he's at. And I was like, oh, did it look like this when it came? And he's like, they all came like that. And I'm like, yeah, it's because we we made all that. It was like long lost plug connections, you know, like, yeah. Small work that comes to weed movement, bro. Well, especially when like you're with like people and like I wasn't in this side of it. I was just like a guy that grew a flower. You know, they had this all other oil side of it. But like, bro, they were pumping out fucking weight like flooding cities. Yeah, it sounds like it. Yeah, they were they were doing some serious fucking work. And so we took a bunch of money and I knew some guys out in Oklahoma that I'd met in LA previously because like through some fucking weird thing, one of the guys that was a grower in LA, they was those were all Mexican dudes, right? Down in LA, it was this whole Mexican family, a bunch of dudes in the family worked for him growing and doing different things for him. And one of them, when they first came over for Mexico, they landed in Oklahoma. And so he knew some dudes from school that were this one dude, Drew and this one dude, Pedro, and they all knew each other from school. And so they were coming out to LA to see how weeds grown at like scale so they could set up their own legal grow. Because like Oklahoma was about to like vote in medical. Yeah. And so they were getting all their ducks in a row because they were like smart ass fucking 20 year old kids, man. Like 21 year old guys just like scraped together 50 grand and we're like, we're going to start growing weed, man. And so like they're still operating. They run this company called High Rise Cannabis out there. They're honestly, I think the best growers in Oklahoma. They're fucking like they're badass guys and they they have their local dispensary and they make their own rosin and shit. And they're one of the few examples out there. There's a few more like resident coal and the few others, but like High Rise and those dudes, they're fucking super legit. And so if you're ever passing through, definitely stop it. They're dispensary in Bethany because they'll hook you up with some fucking fire for cheap, too. Excellent shout out. Yeah. Yeah. Now, there there's still some of the guys from out there that I've like made friends with in the industry that like they stuck by me. They were fucking solid dudes trying to help me out all the way to the end. And so that's cool. I haven't talked to them for a minute, but fucking shout out Drew and Pedro. And so they kind of tipped us off about Oklahoma because I was still talking with them and he would hit me up for just like little questions here and there, like, oh, how do you do this? Like, what's your dilution for this? You know, just like little mentor type questions. It's like, hey, I'm trying to figure out how to do this, help me out. And I kind of just coached them along the way, just giving them a little bit of help here and there. And they just fucking ran with it and came some bad asses. That's awesome. But they tipped us off. So we go out there just like fucking first boots on the ground, take a fucking flight out there with a fucking bag of money, start renting houses for the crew, find a property to buy, like set up this whole fucking thing. And like, I'll leave out all the fucking details of that one. But yeah, the whole thing fucking blew up huge in my face. But like, you know, I ended up holding some assets. That's like the fucking property sale I've been talking to you about. Yeah, yeah. And like, didn't get totally fucked like, yeah. Did it did it get off the ground before blowing up? Or did it kind of go up like on that first year, man? Weed was worth so much fucking money in Oklahoma that first summer because nobody everybody had set up some like pretty small indoors and was kind of like slowly growing. Like I set up a 12 lighter next grow. I'm going to double it all back in set up 24. Like that's what Drew and Pedro did. And they fucking made it. They filled that warehouse. And now I think they have like 150 200 lights and they're this nice self-sustaining unit. But like we just went out there and blew it out immediately. Like from the first 10 weeks I started building, like I started with a raw piece of dirt. And within 10 weeks, I had a greenhouse lit up with fucking gavitas filled with plants, like fucking ready to roll flowering, you know. And so we made really good money that first year, man. I was selling some light depth wedding cake pounds for fucking 16 to 1800 each. And like people lining up to buy them, you know. Yeah, that's a good deal. The weed sold itself that year. Like I made great money. Like it was a fucking brutal season. It was like one of my first like full start to finish outdoors at scale, besides like Oregon. You know, and so I had a pretty big learning curve of just like not being the most experienced outdoor guys. Still not really a bit. But like, you know, I fucked my shit up this year. You know, I had that surgery right once in the beginning of August. And so my fucking outdoor came out like absolute trash, bro. Because it started getting care in like week six. You know, before that, it was just like straight water for my wife, you know. Yeah, so I had that long ass recovery. But yeah, how do you feel now better like shit, bro? My energy levels are just like zapped, you know. You know how long that's supposed to last. Yeah, I had another buddy who that I work with now. He had a kidney that just like ruptured for some weird reason. It was like a birth defect and a blockage. And he had the same exact surgery just to remove it. You know, I donated mine for context to the listening. And he told me is about six months. And that's what the doctors say, too, is like you're going to just feel weird and often like not a lot of energy and like you'll start feeling more normal around six months in because like your kidney, your other kidney literally has to like swell up and grow bigger to accommodate the workload. Wow, that can't feel good either. That cannot be a fun feeling. No. And it's like a lot of expenditure for your body because it's like a kidney is like, you know, like a filtering vessel. Yeah. And so it's just like packed full of like really thin capillaries and vasculature and like it literally has to enlarge itself. Like where it normally never would, you know, and so like supposedly like I'll go from like, you know, 50 percent kidney function immediately after surgery or less. And I should go up to about like 80 percent by the time I'm healed. Maximum, though, is 80. Yeah, yeah, 80. Yeah, that's kind of the high end of what the what they expect your single kidney after donations. Yeah. And yeah, but we're a brave dude for doing it. Like I'm sure we didn't mean to. We're dumb, bro. I don't know, man. I just I just I just wanted to say that, though. It was a really brave thing to do. And like a lot of people talk about it, but like sitting down, going under the knife to donate part of your organs and knowing that it's going to affect your life in a certain way the rest of your life. That's that's brave. And I applaud you for that. No, I appreciate it, dude, because it's fucking scary, man, because you like you don't know what happened, what's going to happen. You know, I had this pretty old screening and so like I was perfectly healthy. Like there was like absolutely nothing wrong with me. And now it's like I have a thing that brings me back to the doctor once a year for the rest of my life. Yeah, you know. So it's not like there was no cost. It's like people can live perfectly fine on one kidney, but it's just like it came at a pretty big cost to like my personal life. And, you know, like my my like work distribution that I do with my wife with our kid and shit. Because she had to just take over for like fucking, you know, almost over a month, you know, where she's just like basically a single mom. And there's me just fucking out of my mind on opiates and weed, fucking laying on the couch, watching another episode of fucking kitchen nightmares. It's fucking raw. It's fucking raw. Yeah, exactly, bro. I love watching that do the yellow people and throw food across the kitchen. Is that Gordon Ramsay? Yeah, just hella dramatic. He's so funny, bro. It's one of those garbage TVs that I'm like fully invested in. I just want to be Wellington, bro. For real? Have you seen that meme? The endo made of Matt with Matt's Gordon Ramsay and he's doing the idiot, the idiot sandwich. Oh, yeah, that one's fucking amazing. That one is. That one is so good. Yeah. There was like a week on that fucking BS memes channel that was just like pure fucking gold. Yeah, I know where I was just like, dude, just keep pumping them out. Like, I'm getting so much enjoyment out of this. I think the last two days has been pretty good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some liberty to an otherwise pretty heavy couple of days. Yes. Yeah, bro. Yeah, that late one that I slapped together for you and booze, I was like, I wish I hadn't missed the moment because this would fucking land if you're like your comment was still like in view. The context, Dan is making fun of me and booze in our accents and affiliation with sheep and stuff. Well, just the way that you said it, you were like, we were we were so much cooler and nicer and smarter than those Australian settlers. I'm just like says the man that wasn't colonized. Yeah, right. That's beautiful. Yeah. Oh, I love when white dudes start comparing like colonizer debt to like where they live. I'm just like, we're all fucked. And we're all from the British like and we're all fucking weird because of it. Like once I started learning about like weird British nuances of like religion and culture and stuff. I'm like, oh, the whole white world makes sense to me now. Yeah. Oh, my God. We were the people. We were like, you guys may be like prison colonies and all that shit. But like, we were the weirdest religious people out of Britain, all of them. And we're like, we're going to go make our own fucking country. And so that like sums up America in a nutshell, you know, why we have all this evangelical Christian nonsense and just like a million different types of Christianity that are all like so different. You know what I mean? Oh, my God, guys, that's not going here for this. No, I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. We're getting on this topic. But I mean, I agree that all these all these colonies are just like weird quarantine mutations of British culture. 100 percent. Yeah. Yeah. 100 percent. But I had to like genuinely look up famous people from New Zealand because I was just like, oh, I know like Lordy, but that's not going to land. Yeah. And so I found out that I was like, oh, like fucking Russell Crowe. I was like, I found out he's a fucking Kiwi romper stopper, bro. Yeah. Oh, man. And of course, that's a controversy. I just have like a controversy. People will be angry that you mentioned him because he was like born in New Zealand, but he's not really. Oh, see. And that's what I thought. I thought he was an Aussie. Yeah. But for booze, I threw up a fucking image of like Steve Irwin when he was young, like bottle feeding kangaroos. I was like, obviously, that's how they all live, right? Obviously, a back deck. All right. Last side tangent on this note, I was watching this fucking weird ass video on YouTube about like permaculture in Australia, and there's just this dude in like super short cutoff jeans shorts. And he's just like this outback rancher dude. And then every single scene of where they're interviewing him, he's rolling a cigarette with his hands. Every single fucking scene is either smoking or rolling a cigarette. And I was like, it must be booze. There you go. That's like the guy on Traylor Park Boys who always has the Scotch and Coke or whatever. Julian. Yeah, Julian. Yeah, yeah. Oh, man, I've got I've got too many things to say about about. I know, I'm sorry. We'll keep it to the private chat. Yeah, we won't we won't start railing on the accented whites. Comments are going to go back to railing on the religious cults. Or you know, OK, it's why America is so cult prone, bro. Yeah, I know. Yeah, big cult. But yeah, like fucking time line, Oklahoma, like we're at 2020, crush it. 2021 rolls in like fucking the dude that owned all this shit starts getting real paranoid because like he's rolling in like serious fucking money. Like, like really, really next level life changing amounts of money for the kind that the feds pay attention to. Yeah, yeah. Well, the type that people get fucking hurt over, you know what I mean? Yeah, and like. He starts getting real paranoid about me and shit and like that I'm going to fuck him over because he fucked over this like guy that I really like. I'm still friends with. He's a mentor of me. And like he's the one that fucked him over. And like I had already started this out with my boy like we're cool because he will pay you like that was the thing that everyone said about this dude is he pays his debts. He may be late. He may be a dick, but he pays his fucking debts. And so like just wait, bro, it'll be a year late, but like you'll get paid the money he owes you. And like he fucking came through and he did it, man. And so like the whole reason that we split up and all that drama and all that bullshit like it never even needed to happen because what he was paranoid about was that like I was going to fuck him to get back in for my boy. And I'm just like, I'm not that petty, bro. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, but that's that's to me, that's more him projecting and showing his inner soul. If that's where his mind is at, that that would scare me to be real. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, and it just like that was the beginning of the end for him, too, was all that paranoia because like he started making bad moves and doing shit with even shadier people than us. And like, you know, he ended up getting fucking murdered. And that's a hard lesson. Yeah, bro. No, it was like a dude that I like worked with and talked to like every day for years, you know what I mean? And so I didn't like him at the end, but I still don't think that he deserved what he got, you know, like he was still a family man. You know, like I've eaten dinner with his fucking wife and kids. Yeah, and now his kids have to grow up without a dad just because of some stupid fucking funny money shit. Well, I mean, that's going to happen a lot too. More as we see cannabis like the downfall. We're going to see a lot of people whose characters we thought were very sound kind of make decisions that are out of character. Yeah. And man, that's hard to watch. It's hard. I mean, there was enough money flowing around that like we always made jokes of like, oh, this will be a fun part in the movie. Yeah, I mean, that's like that main character syndrome bullshit that it's caught in is just like we thought we were the center of the fucking world, bro. And because, like, I didn't know anyone as big as us. And if they did, they kept their mouth shut, you know what I mean? Yeah. And so like, yeah, man, it was just a weird time. And it just like led to me doing like a lot of like being a lot more introspective and just like having to like fucking eat crow hard, you know what I mean? Just like I had to clean up that entire mess, you know? And so like everyone dipped and I was just like the one with my name on shit. And so like I had to stay and clean up. And like it took every fucking dollar out of my safe. It fucking like put my relationship on the rocks. You know, I had my son, my son had just been born. So like my wife was pregnant for this whole last year of like bullshit and drama. Oh, man, while everything's breaking down. And it's like the type of thing where it's like, you know, it's over. But like you still have to go through the motions. You know, that whole fall was just like, yeah, we're going to grow weed, but it's not worth anything, man. Yeah. You know, like we went from eight 16 to $1,800 pounds of wedding cake and shit to fucking $600 pounds of the some of the best weed I've ever grown at scale. So fucked. So fucked. As you see me post like depth photos, it's from that last fall where it's just like fucking like really, really insanely good quality because we just made the call that we're like, well, it's too hot here during the summer, the summer run depth in Oklahoma is fucking like. It's not even worth doing. Yeah. Don't even do it. Yeah, it'll all in here. It'll all look like shit. And yeah. So I like waited till September to flip the greenhouses September 1st. And like some of it, like the GMO went to like fucking December 14th and still didn't finish, you know what I mean? People who call that cut 11 weeks had do not know what finished weed looks like. Yeah, I've talked to local about it. And he's like, oh, it's 13 by my estimates. And funny enough on the GMO topic, those same dudes at high rise, when they first started, they got this cut of GMO and it was supposedly through some roundabout source directly from Skunk Tech and like his selected just got master flex. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, master flex. Yeah, yeah. And it was a much shorter flowering, way nastier cut like it was like fucking cat piss and baby shit in his warehouse for like two weeks. Even after he trimmed it, moved it out and sold it. I walked into his warehouse and I was like, dude, I can still fucking smell it. But it was a nine week or two. And it was much, much prettier, like fucking dense cookie bud. How was the high? It was fucking great. Like M.D. style. But yeah, it's interesting. Just fucking great weed. And I've never seen it again. They dropped it because there was not that much demand for it. You know, they're much more like modern hype boys and know how to play in that market and not like trip over their dick and fuck up. Yeah, like I tried. I'm more much I came from a staples era of like wholesaling. You know what I mean? And that's the people I came up with. And so like I like growing whole hoops of one fucking cut. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like that's how it should be. Really experience it and see it in all of it. Yeah, you can't dial it in if you're growing fucking six cuts in every room or every greenhouse every time. Exactly. And they're cycling through for the flavor of the month and flavor of the year. You know, like you just never actually get that true genetic. There's no way to like, I don't want to say master. Because I don't think anybody's true me ever. I mean, maybe some people do. I never have mastered anything that I feel, but like there's no way you're going to get to truly have that relationship with the cut where you get to grow it to its best expression unless you're constantly growing to each round and learning it together. And it's acclimating, you're acclimating to it. Yeah, yeah. And so like I came back to California after I cleaned up that whole fucking mess like last every dime I had drove back with like my fucking dog and my truck and my fucking dog died out there, too. Like right when my son was born, like this dog I've had my whole adult. Yeah. So like my business in one year, my business failed. My dog got leukemia and died. Like my relationship on, bro. Yeah, bro, for real, like my I was drinking a lot at this point, too. My relationship with like a dude, yeah. This is only two, two and a half years ago now. You must still be like recovering from that, dude. Oh, 100 percent, bro. I actually have a therapist now and I realize how fucked up I am. And, you know, like I've been like, oh, that's not normal. Six years. Yeah. Yeah, it's worth it, man. Like I just I couldn't find someone that was right. But like I found someone my age and like apparently I like talking to women more than fucking bros. That's pretty typical. Yeah. And so like really normal. Found this great chick who I fucking talked to like every two weeks to a month and like it's just nice to not have to listen to someone else talk to you about their shit afterwards. You're just like, just help me with my shit and then the call ends. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's super selfish and I feel bad about it. But it's like I'm paying for this shit. That's a pain service. Yeah, I'm not going to feel that bad. Yeah, never. Well, you know, man, I've been starting to talk a little bit about like mental health stuff and like taking care of yourself, you know, especially in the in this world, we were like mostly dudes who don't seem to know how to take care of ourselves. So yeah, worth shouting out especially in like Western culture. It's like, you're supposed to be this like fucking stoic roll with the punches. Nothing bothers me. We can overcome everything. And it's like it's a tiring face to put on every day, man. Sometimes you just want to be like it's hard to be vulnerable as like an American man. Fuck no. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because what you end up becoming is like a brittle, like repressed mess, right? Yeah, yeah, like, oh, like he's got issues. And it's like anyone that tells you that you have daddy issues like they probably do too, man. Yeah, dude, because it's like I had someone try and tell me that and I'm just like, you know, like I don't have the best relationship with my dad, like, but I know he loves me and I care about him too. Even though we're not like always on the same page or tight, you know what I mean? So I don't think that's it for me. For me, it's more just that like I've never felt like I like belonged anywhere. And that's why I was like so ready to like hop on board with these people that like didn't in retrospect ever really treat me well. They paid me well. They let me feel slightly part of the crew and shit. And it's like it's that get like me game that every hustler from every industry has is that it's just like, oh, well, if you do what I'm doing and become my bitch, then like, yeah, we can fuck you can get like me and fucking be rich too. You can have all this glamorous lifestyle. I'm like, it's a classic hustle that I like see everywhere now. You know, I think, yeah, I just want to point out as well, like what you were saying earlier, like most people I believe all they want is to be accepted and to fit in somewhere. Yeah, I think a lot of the time people get confused and they confuse that for like getting more power or like getting higher up in a hierarchy, but really a lot of these people just want to like feel like they belong, you know? Yeah. And so like I spent so long trying to become this guy that made money and like was more like the people that I saw because like they would full on tell you like, oh, you're just weak. You haven't figured it out yet. Like, you know what I mean? Like you haven't fucking sold your soul out enough to like be like me. And so you just got to do this, that and the other. Don't be so emotional, bro. Don't like tell the truth, you know? Don't. Yeah. And so like I went down this whole rabbit hole where like I've been spending the last two years just like trying to figure out who like I actually am again as an adult, you know what I mean? And so I've just been circling back all the shit that like I liked doing when I was younger and like when times were good, you know what I mean? And so like I've just been playing a lot of guitar and like spending time with my kid, trying to be like the dad that I didn't have kind of grown up, you know what I mean? And just like being available and around and just like not not that stereotypical hard ass dad, you know what I mean? Yeah. And just trying to grow better weed again for once, you know what I mean? It's like you can feel glamorous growing fucking a thousand or a couple thousand pounds of shit. But you know, like I've realized that I suck at growing weed now as far as like my home set up. Like God, I fucked up the last like three runs in a row, you know, because like I'm not used to not having my toys and my setup and like, you know, like home growing is a completely different skill set than commercial growing. And it's actually, I think much more challenging because you have such an ideal conditions in certain ways, depending on how you built it, where you're at, you know what I mean? Like where I'm at, it's just the heat during the year. And then like once the heat's off, it's fucking cold, man. And so it's like you're going from running AC to fucking running heaters inside your tent kind of thing, you know. And like I've just had a bitch of a time controlling my environment, you know. Yeah. And so I've fucked up a bunch of runs now. Learned from a bunch of runs. I have, man. Yeah. No, that's the whole thing is that it's just like I'm realizing more and more that I got lucky when I was younger home growing and I had some easy to grow cuts that I wish I still had. But like the other day, you know, like I'm growing some testers right now and like I sprayed some Dr. Zimes at the fucking four ounce a gallon. Most of my plants are all fine. Those little seedlings got fucking fried, man. I guess. God damn it, dude. Like, yeah. Why is this these small and they're still their teens, you know, they're all like eight inches tall, they're tall, they're starting to grow out. But for whatever reason, those genetics just got like fried by the Dr. Zimes. And I don't really like Dr. Zimes. Like I remember when it came out and I was working at the Hydra shop, I've never really liked it. Newcombe is a better product if we're plugging specific shit. I like Newcombe a lot more. Don't make my mistakes and buy Dr. Zimes, buy Newcombe. There you go. I've heard that echoed in the server as well. Yeah. This is quite a random interjection. I think I was saying this to Matt like yesterday, maybe, but when I met Farmer Dan on the server, I think I didn't had no idea that you had all of all of this experience behind you. Like I didn't either. I remember we just had some like quite like nice talks in like just the DMs. And I didn't I didn't really know who you were or anything. And so when I found out from Matt later on, like where you were actually coming from, it's like, oh, my God, this guy knows so much stuff. Dude, I talked to Matt for like six months before I like dropped them. I actually had like any experience in this. And so like some of those early replies, I've scrolled back and just like you talk to me like I'm just such a fucking idiot on the server. Me or thousand? No, you, bro, you. I remember so like last year, this is how I got the name Farmer Dan. I was working on this vegetable farm out in the Napa Valley. Shout out to fucking Long Meadow Ranch and the farmstead grew out there and Jess Arnes, who runs that place, runs the farming operations. It's fucking great company, man. It's one of the few jobs I've ever had that I was like truly sad to fucking leave, you know what I mean? Because I just didn't make enough money to live in Napa. You know, I was making like twenty five bucks an hour with a fucking son and like living at my grandpa's house because like we were couch surfing when we came back to California. And like I couldn't get a fucking job because I've been like a weed bro for so long. And I just happened to find this organic vegetable farmer attached to a restaurant in like winemate, like, you know, vineyard and winemaking company in Napa who was just like, oh, I don't care. You seem like you know your shit, you know what I mean? And like I do like I know a lot about like growing vegetables because like I've always had a vegetable garden and like, you know, like that skill kind of just like accumulated with the rest of my growing experience slowly. But just fucking epic summer, you know what I mean? I've got like two gallon bags worth of fucking vegetable seeds from like twenty five different peppers and a dozen different types of tomatoes and like different herbs and all kinds of shit. But that's how we met, yeah? Like, yeah, yeah, that's kind of like our first like like real exchange was I was just like like you were doing your health kick and you started losing weight. And I was just like, oh, I'll hook you up with a bunch of vegetable seeds if you want. And I just sent you a care package. Yeah. And I was like, wow, he's an actual farmer. Like, yeah, actually like a grower grower. That's what I that's what I thought at the time, though. Yeah, yeah. Like he grows he grows vegetables, man. Save seeds. Yeah. Like I've always been a seed guy of all kinds. Like I love seeds of flowers, vegetables. Like I have a massive collection in my refrigerator that I'm like constantly trying to re up on. That's super cool. I mean, I just wonder, I like, especially after you've been telling the story of like some of your major realizations as you got older and especially encountering some of these like big failures. Yeah. Like I wonder if that impacted the way you presented yourself to us on this. Oh, for sure. I was definitely did not come in here like big, dick swinging at all. Yeah, I was like, I'm a fucking failure. Because I was in like, I was like fucking depressed as shit when I first got on the server. Because I listened for probably the first year or so. Like I don't remember how long is this even going now? Like three years now. I mean, yeah, for the actual show. Yeah. Yeah, I think two or three years, two and a half, three years. Yeah, something like that. So I listened for the first year and a half or two years. And then like I got on the server and like probably only like October of last year. That's right. You know what I mean? Some somewhere around there. Because it was like right before I like took this job and like move to like work for this MSO. And so but anyway, I go I'm working at this vegetable farm. I they have these like private dinners and stuff that you pay like two hundred dollars a plate to sit at and like, yeah, hang out. But it's fucking worth it, bro. I want to go back when I got the sounds like it's worth it. Yeah, just like the whole experience is so nice. Because like you go out and there's like a meet and greet and they've got like fucking himoni Berco that they've like aged on site. You know what I mean? Themselves and they've got like all this local fucking honey and cheese and shit that came off of our properties and you drink wine with the locals and shit. And then you sit down and you have like a three to five course fucking meal that's like most of it's come from like our our their fucking cattle ranch that they have on the coast. And all the vegetables that we grew down in the valley in Napa. And it was so fucking cool, man. Like I wish I had the money to do that regularly because like you meet all kinds of cool people that are all obviously very wealthy and successful. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like if you run in those circles, but I love that they loved just like meeting because like I'm a pretty like fucking clean cut looking guy, you know what I mean? Like when I was in weed, people are always like surprised. They're like, you're not what I expected. You know what I mean? Because I'm not covered in tattoos or anything. Like I just look like a nice little white boy. Yeah. And and so I was thousand. They yeah, they ate that shit up when I was in Napa, bro. They were like, you're a farmer. You're a handsome young blonde kid. Like they were fucking all about it. And I go out there to one of these dinners and like they want me to like sit and like talk about all the courses and like what's provided by the farm on each on each course and stuff. And the placard just says meet Farmer Dan. And that's like what the icon is. And so like that was the first time that anyone called me that that anybody like, you know what I mean? I just like snapped a photo. I still have the I have that exact frame photo. I stole it from the event. And I was like, I'm taking this shit home with me, bro. Yeah, yeah. And that's how I became Farmer Dan because I had never had a good handle before. Like on IG, I'm like 530 underscore DC. Like super anonymous, you know what I mean? There's like one photo of me on the in like, you know, six or seven years of being on IG, like, you know, and that's just the that's the little breadcrumb for people to like scroll through it and be like, who the fuck is this guy? And you're like, oh, I know that guy, you know, yeah. I'd never I don't think I even know what you look like. I've never seen that picture. Yeah, I've got a scroll. I've got a fucking. I think I sent you a photo when I was in like. That's right. I did when I was in in the surgery prep. Or whatever. I was I was gaming with you because I was just like, I had to chill at the hospital. So like when you do a kidney donation, normally the donor goes in first and they take it out and then they prep the other they're prepping the other guy and then they open them up and immediately put it in. Yeah, like my dad's health was like really bad. He had to have like a double bypass for his heart in the December before the surgery. So like six or seven months before and just like really poor general health just from being a kidney failure, you know. And so they actually had to open him up first to even make sure that they could actually do the surgery, you know, because they have to basically like find vasculature and like find veins and arteries to match up to that'll actually supply adequate blood flow. And they were really worried that they wouldn't have that, that it all be like right after. Yeah, right. They were just worried to be like really atrophied. And so like I had to like sit there and wait, not knowing if I was having surgery or not five to like nine a.m. And so I was just like scrolling through the fucking the server and shit, you know what I mean? Just bullshit and on general chat and like fucking trying to keep my mind off it and started doing like a little bit of writing that I've like continued doing because that's like I have a lot to say, obviously, you know, like I have a fucking gift of the gap. I can talk for fucking ever, especially about weed, you know. And so I was like, oh, if you're so fucking opinionated and nobody wants to like listen to you say it in person, like that's kind of like prime material for being a writer. It is, you know what I mean? And I can encourage him that. Right. Yeah. Nobody wants to hear my shit. Well, so and that's like what I thought, too. And so when I started talking to normal people, like like talking to nurses and like fucking nurse practitioners when like I was doing all this and they're just like, oh, what do you do? And I just fucking roll my eyes and I'm just like, I'm a weed guy. You know what I mean? Because it's you know, it's going to spark like fucking hundred run on questions afterwards, you know, and it's just because they have no fucking clue. And so like then you have to like try and summarize your entire experience in the weed industry and what it's like and like a few sentences and a casual conversation, like it just doesn't fucking work. And so it's like, I don't think that I had any like unique or like amazing or like scaled once in a lifetime experience, like in the in this industry. But like it was definitely just like an uncommon experience for normal people. You know what I mean? Yeah, of course. Like I don't know how to do it. Like I have no skill in writing, you know, like I can write decently. I went to college, like but I'm much more on like the scientific side. You know what I mean? Like we can talk writing another time. I reckon because that I'm interested in at this stage. I think we did want to ask you about some of the tech that you got to play with and some of the projects that you got to do. Matt mentioned something about you scoping pollen grains. Oh, yeah, yeah. So that's been a big thing with like the reversal research is just like wire wire wire certain times. It's a failure, even though you have like a good pollen drop. And so I started just like doing the base science behind pollen, seeing what other people do for like pollen viability. And like number one, you just scope it, see if it looks normal or not. And then you can start doing things like starch staining. And so like you just put iodine on it because like a live pollen. It's basically a miniature plant. Like people have this misconception that pollen is sperm cells from a plant. And it's not. It's like a little microorganism in this thing they call the alteration of generations and plants. And so I did not know that. Yeah. And so like pollen is not a sperm cell. It's a miniature plant that's a small clump of cells, like maybe 15 or so. And it has the ability that once it germinates, it creates sperm cells in a pollen tube that then fertilize the egg. The ovule itself is actually a separate plant and type of plant. Like that's the gametophyte is what they call it in botany. So like the plant you see and that you're growing is the sporophyte. And it's basically supposed to multiply itself. But the gametophyte, which is like the big thing in flowering plants that like make flowering plants what they are in like a separate lineage is the retention of that ovule onto the sporophyte. And so in primitive plants, they used to drop the ovule like in seaweed, for example, it drops the ovule into the water current and the other sporophyte that's or the other gametophyte that's the male drops the sperm into the water current and they all just meet somewhere. Yeah. You know what I mean? So pollen's not sperm. Sorry to bust anyone's fucking bubble. It's like it's funny because we use that that like illusion for people who don't understand like how males and females reproduce. But you're exactly right. Like it's not the same method of action. Yeah, I guess I never mentioned at all that like when I was at Humboldt's or I guess I did say I was studying botany, but like I studied a lot of like seaweed and phycology, too. And like that's where you really get into the nitty gritty of like how plants evolved because it all happened in the water to begin with. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, like all modern plants come from like, you know, in the in water first and then they come to land and that's where you get into like mycorrhizae and their co-evolution with plants because plants didn't have roots as we know them when they first evolved and made it on the land. So they actually needed that relationship to absorb nutrients and minerals and other things they need from the environment. You know, and so that's why we have that like symbiosis. You know, it's not just like my ghost powder that we figured out works with weed plants, you know? Yeah, for sure. Because there was like a time in that I didn't know that all this shit was applicable either that it's like for all plants. You know what I mean? Like, oh, mycorrhizae. That's just like something we have from like forestry and like knowledge of trees and mycology that like we've applied to agriculture. It's not that we like discovered it in agriculture first, you know? Yeah. And so like you can get this like closed view that it's like, oh, this is just a weed thing. And it's like, no, man, it's just a thing for plants. You know, absolutely. When you get really deep in your can of knowledge, you'd be surprised how much of it like crosses over, you know, as just general knowledge about plants. I also think that it's a bit narrow minded for people who grow these plants to just look at resources about growing these plants, like even doing the research for some of the breeding episodes that we did. It was so cool to go and look at like apple trees or like citrus, you know, and look at what they had done and like the history of the breeding development for those kinds of crops. There's so much out there that like, yeah, you know, people shouldn't be scared to go and dig through. Well, and one thing I've noticed too is that like getting an education in plant breeding, it's not really going to help you in cannabis because all the tools you get used to using, they just don't fucking exist yet. There's no standards. There's no protocols. Maybe there are for private industries with shit like Chimera is doing, you know what I mean? But like beyond that, man, like fucking nobody has this shit as like public information to learn from and do. And so like a lot of advanced genomics are predicated on like, oh, well, I know every frickin allele of every gene in this entire genome. And like, yeah, that's what we had to, man, that's what we had to try and like drive home when we were doing our seed making and breeding episodes to kind of like draw the line between where the science can really apply for people at home or like, you know, smaller scales and being like, look, there's a lot of this that's idealized that just doesn't work for us. Yeah, well, people get scared about like, you know, a CRISPR technology and stuff like that. I'm just like, yeah, it's just not quite there yet. You know what I mean? We're still going through the basics of like really old school 70s and 80s tech of like making polyploids and things like that, you know what I mean? Like there's still not a general consensus of like whether that's like even valuable to do or not, you know, like there isn't a certain aspect of like, oh, a triploid plant can't be pollinated by like a diploid or a tetraploid. That's cool. You know what I mean? Like, but it's it's for like mid-Z field grown weed. That doesn't need to be perfect anyway. Who gives a shit if your field grown weed has some fucking seeds in it? We're going to blast it anyway. Right, you know, sit it in the dirt anyways while you're waiting to stack it. Yeah, bro. And I was in Oklahoma. I saw some weed that was like field grown. It was just covered in clay. And just like disgusting. I saw it here, bro. Combine harvested fucking horrific weed. And they were packaging it for sale. Yeah, I was just like, you think you can sell this as flour and they're like, we know we can. And I'm just like, they probably did. And they probably did, man. Yeah, yeah. I don't think they're probably doing too well anymore, though. I doubt it. Oklahoma. What's funny is that everyone talks shit on it. Like it's this mid-Z ass place for weed. Oklahoma has more fireweed on the shelf than California does because of a couple small groups that operate with high integrity and have been allowed to like carve out their local niche. And they actually support small local companies out there. They're like into that. And like California says they are. But the second they got the chance to fucking go dick ride some dude and get a cooking city, you know, they're lining up out the door. But, you know, really, yeah, yeah, literally. And so like it's the I've seen things in Oklahoma, like fucking small local boys who started off with nothing ascend to like the top of the industry there to where like their shit sells out every time they drop it, you know, like they're making good fucking money for themselves and like surviving this whole fucking bottom out of the industry because they have a good solid business and a good solid base of customers that support them. And you don't really see that in California unless it's a giant corporate company. And that's I think just consistency overall. You know, oh, I go and I get fucking permanent marker from Doja, and it's the same every single time. It's like, OK, I can respect that. You know, that's how product should be. Yeah, it should be consistent, especially if it's going to be labeled as medicine. I look at sungrown as kind of like a vintage, though. You know what I mean? I'm like, this is the 2018 or the 2023 crop. You know what I mean? It's going to have its own unique nuance to it, even if it's the exact same seeds or cuts that I grew the year before. And so like I don't think that there's like a lot of these large companies want to like extrapolate to the nationwide and worldwide and all that. And I'm like, dude, I don't think you really can because even an indoor that set up the same in the same city and you can barely tell which fucking facility you're in because the rooms are so identical. They put out a different fucking product than the one down the road a few miles. Absolutely. And it's noticeably different in quality control to where like they can spot it and tell you where it came from kind of thing. You're like, oh, it did this. That's kind of like what I see from this facility, you know, and it's like, OK, and like consumers know, too, where they're like, I'm looking for jars that say this. And it's like, I've heard that echoed even on the first smoke of the day from seed junkie and those guys, they were like, people know. And the consumers like start recognizing what facilities they want weed from. And so. Yeah. Then I wanted to bring it back to some of the other projects that you may have done. And I don't know how much detail, obviously, you can speak to these. Yeah, for sure. But I know you mentioned like tissue tissue culture. And it's interesting to me because obviously most of the time when someone brings up tissue culture, I kind of roll my eyes because. Yeah, you know, it's like some kind of they got scammed and they bought some stupid home kit, right? But you are someone who's probably actually seen on the ground, like, you know, in a commercial industrial context, what it actually is or where it is. Yeah, what are your thoughts on that at the moment? I think it is still so fledgling, you know what I mean? Like, I think that the the the bros with a science background like me have figured out a lot of basics. I don't believe based on success rates, I've seen that people are accurately doing Maristem cultures. No, I don't. I just don't fucking believe it. I know it's a numbers game. It's a numbers game. So like you can do 12 perfectly executed Maristem cultures, but only one comes up actually clean and virus. Absolutely. And so there is a numbers game associated with it. It's not the technique that's wrong. It's just that I think that there's more people kind of scamming other people by teaching them techniques that are technically proper, but they don't have the success rates that they claim they do. People make it out like that if I Maristem something and then throw it in a thermo-cycler and like keep that heat amped up, that it'll like force the virus to express and like, oh, it's free and I tested it and it's free. Yeah. And like if that was the case, then why is HLVD still such a fucking industry's ruining crop for not just us, but for hops too. There's massive losses reported worldwide over HLVD and hops has way much more, way more money and traditional ag behind it than we do. And they still haven't figured it out for them. I have kind of like two different questions because I know people are interested in tissue culture for a couple of different reasons. One is just the preservation, right? I think that's its key feature. And then that's its only feature. And then the other one and then the other one being like cleaning it up, right? Cleaning up. Yeah. There's a third. So in terms of the OK. Yeah. What's the third one? Third is actually commercial propagation. Yeah, it's unnecessary though. But like with that, like what they found out was they cannot insert these these tissue culture clones immediately and then grow them because they had so many hormones that they were all just firing off nuts and fucking balls everywhere. Well, not only that, it's like there's a long turnaround time from turning a micro plant lit into like a full size team. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like that veg time is fucking consistently or like like genuinely a lot longer than if I just cut a clone and grow it. Absolutely. And so the main application that I see is like tissue cultured and meristemed moms and those getting cycled out quarterly and then just doing like standard cloning protocols because like then you're cutting off of a clean mom that's routinely getting cycled through. It's getting tested and verified quarterly. And like then you you're you're starting from a clean base but you also have the efficiency of doing traditional propagation. It's going to be efficient. Yeah. There's no market except for maybe hemp but hemp can is all for extraction and you can just use seed, you know. And so like I just per like I don't there's so many techniques like synthetic seeds. What's the fucking point? It's super cool. I've tried to do it. I had it almost right but it just like I knew another guy in LA that did it and he's like well I can cryo store it for six months like this and it still germinates. And I'm like so like but we could just do that with a tissue culture sample you know and we could just do that with a normal culture that's small. Do you remember when Dutch passion took that to market? No. I didn't try to do it. It was in 2009. I think it might be up by a few years but they actually tried to take it to market and what they were finding was that it was so hard for people to germinate a regular seed. Yeah. You know that there was no way, no way it was ever going to last or be financially viable or personally viable because people can't even germinate a normal seed let alone synthetic. Yeah a micro plantlet in this encapsulated in a gel of fucking hormones. Yeah good fucking luck with that because it doesn't have roots. You know what I mean? How's it ever like without a lab? It's hard. So in terms of like the three kind of like main outcomes that people are looking for you know we said preservation propagation cleaning up. Yeah. Are we saying that like out of all three like not on any of those fronts it's not gone that far or it's not far. Preservation is kind of like the main course as far as I'm concerned. All the other things are kind of like yeah it can work. People have shown that it does work in certain circumstances and not in others. I think that we'll get to a point where with like the right antivirals and proper Maristem culturing and just proper technique overall of knowing that it's like just because I did the process doesn't mean it's clean. Then like we'll get to a point where we can clean up plants to a certain degree and maybe get them virus free because like I trust that certain people are smart enough to do it. They're smarter than me for sure. You know what I mean? And I don't think it's an impossibility. I just think that like the people executing are just not our top tier individuals. So like if Chimera told me and some giant Canadian MSO told me that like, no, no, we've nailed it and we invested a few million in this research and we made it happen and like we're not sharing. I'd believe it, especially if they weren't sharing. If they were making it public I'd be like no fucking way, right? Nobody wants to share info. And I just think that's hilarious. Whenever you can't patent something they're like fucking lip sealed. They're just like, if we can't profit off it then we are not gonna allow anyone else to have it. And so that's just like another sign of the breakdown of the culture going towards more of a corporate culture is that it's just like even if it's industry wide like needed for the community and the industry to go on if one company has it and no one else does they're not gonna fucking share it. Oh yeah, in no way. Yeah, there's too much money on the table. Like the people investing in these companies are like billionaire hedge funds and shit. Yeah, they're not even a part of the culture. Like fucking BlackRock owns weed companies. You know? Yeah. And so like everything is profit motivated obviously but like it's like I'd like to make a living doing this obviously too. But it's just like at the cost of other people in the community and not for the betterment of it but actually to like detract from it. It seems, it's fucked in my opinion. I agree. So yeah, I kind of do wanna ask you about like what you see in the future for the industry but before we get to that, just noting we have about 20, 30 minutes probably. Yeah, yeah. I hope I'm not being too greedy here but like in terms of like your experience outside of like say like the tissue culture stuff and like the reversal stuff that you talk to us about are there any other kinds of projects or tech that you wanted to highlight or that you found interesting that you could touch on? I mean like a lot of the stuff's pretty standard that I do honestly. It's just more like the rate that I do it at that's like crazy. Cause like I make hybrids constantly. Like we have like a fully fleshed out scheduled breeding program that's like fucking to the date, these pollinations need to happen. These cuts need to be taken. These are the selections. These need to go on to the next part of the process. But like most of it's really standard. It's just the rate that we fucking do it at and the structure beyond that that I think is really cool that I hadn't really experienced. Cause like whenever I did Fino hunts, it was like one or two things at a time. I'm constantly Fino hunting like fucking 20 different things. Taking notes fucking like crossing them together doing all kinds of shit. Just seeing what happens. When we first met, you seemed a little bit hesitant to tell me like where you work for and stuff. And I think like maybe, maybe because people do judge immediately like, oh, you're one of them. You know what I mean? Yeah. And that's what I was trying to hedge against. Yeah. Get to know me first. Yeah. But like realistically from my point of view, like all I would think, all I was thinking was, wow, what an opportunity to go through a whole bunch of like any lines just to like a great totally advantageous and like I would have taken that job, even with what I do for a living. I would have taken that job because of what you get to see the scale of what you get to see it. There's so much to learn for anyone, anyone at any skill. So I applaud it. I'm glad you took it. I think it's rad. No, I have to remind myself of that pretty constantly because there's parts of it that I don't like, you know what I mean? Like I see plants that I think should go forward that get smashed and tossed to the side and thrown away because they're not a perfect commercial offering on the first hybrid, you know? But I'm like, oh, but that would be such a cool parental for this reason or like this would be like, you know what I mean? And it's just like not there. And so like that's the part that I'm still like pushing for a lot is just like not more control, but just like more variety of like the things that we're doing because a lot of people, including our competitors and stuff, they want like quick mashups to like, be able to market, you know what I mean? Because the market demands it constantly now. It's like you got to have new shit at least twice a year. If you don't have two releases a year, like your old news, you know what I mean? And like realistically like quarterly, you better have one for every brand that you have like new cuts coming down the pipeline. And so I don't think people understand that like nowadays it's not so much of like, what cuts do I have access to? It's like, what hasn't been done before? What's actually new and exciting? That's like genuinely fucking hard to place your thumb on because it's like, I can cross OGs and Skittles and fucking Sherb and all that shit. But guess what? A ton of other people already have. It's already been released. It's cycled through the market. And so like where to go next is honestly, I think the big question for everyone. Like we're still riding cookies hype to this day. It may have changed its name slightly to seed junkie or to fucking Doja or whatever. Fucking Tony Mendo and all those dudes and their Skittles run, but like it's really, even all of that is still predicated on cookies. It is all predicated on cookies. It's the perfect moment for me to ask you then, like what has been historically, some of your favorite stuff to grow and smoke, grow and consume, but also like what areas of the gene pool do you think still hold potential for the future? I mean, I've always- So I guess one part is like the past and one part is the future. I've always gravitated towards like blue dream, obviously I love when we do hybrids of that, but it's predictable, man. Like, you know exactly what it's gonna do. It's gonna be dominant. That's why I love it. Yeah, yeah. It's gonna be dominant. It's gonna smell like blue dream sort of. It's gonna have a big chunky structure. You know, like I can tell when stuff's like 50% blue dream. Yeah. It's like pretty fucking obvious. That's what was so cool about Pac is that he took both the bullies. You know what I mean? Trainwreck and blue dream. They're both bullies in the breeding room and you gotta see who's gonna fucking overcome the other. And it's like really great that like they actually kind of met in the middle. Maybe T-Dub was like- Yeah, they danced together. Yeah, maybe T-Dub was a little more dominant with that turpinoline because that lined up with like that super silver haze background. Yeah. But like there's still noticeable blue dream traits in there that mellow out the harshness of the T-Dub. And I'm sure someone else has already said all this. I listen to local talk about these all the time because he's in love. Yeah, right? Yeah, yeah. What did he pop? Like a pack of 10? And he's like, I got seven keepers. Yeah, right? He loves it. That's good though, bro. That's an exaggeration, I'm sure. No, no, yeah. Yeah, people would like to joke that he's like a young bachelor. I'm like, he's not a bachelor. He's married. Is he married? Is he? I didn't know that. Guys, to the plant, guys. Oh, yeah. I was gonna say, what's his name, bro? I didn't know. Oh. Like, what do I like about the past and like where's the future going? Yeah. I always lean towards like OG and chem hybrids. It's just like where I wanna smoke at the end of the day and I'm not much of a daytime smoker anymore now that I have like a quote unquote big boy job and I have like responsibilities and like when I come home, I'm a dad, you know what I mean? I gotta do shit. I gotta do chores. I gotta like help make dinner and do all the things. And so like, I have some like dad weed is what I call it. Or like, I like smoking pie right now. It's like 18 and a half percent THC but it's fucking tasty as all get out. It's got that sour mango candy type flavor with some cheese behind it. And it's fucking great for daytime smoke, man. I can do my job all day on that shit even though at most days I choose not to but it's good for me when I like, oh, I gotta go take my kid to the park and be the responsible one. You know, he's like. What is this? Papaya. Oh, papaya. That's right. Yeah. It's some sort of a green crack or a Betsy hybrid is like guaranteed what I think it is. It's one of the two. It has probably probably green crack probably. Yeah. Yeah. But she's got some qualities of Betsy that I think like line up pretty decently. You know what I mean? But like it could go either way. You know what I mean? Yeah. A lot of the stuff in Betsy I think is skunk one. So it does make sense. Yeah, exactly. It's like literally just like, oh, well there are two things from the same place anyway. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Similar expressions. Yeah. But yeah, I need dad weed nowadays, man. Like if I'm going to the park and I'm walking with my two year old trying to make sure he doesn't run into the street and die, like I don't want to be zonked out on some fucking like ghost OG or some shit. Yeah, right? Fucking high off my ass. Just like, huh? And so like dad, dad weed has been fucking key to my life being like productive lately. But then like once the kid goes to bed, man, like I'm fucking rack and bung loads of the fucking OG and chem every night. Oh, and of course that permanent markers permanent marker. I know. It's the best weed that's ever existed. It is pretty much the best weed that's ever existed. Yeah. Only second to Zope though, obviously, for the listeners out there. It's going to be replacing blue bonnet. Yeah. The next ride is going to be dying. Yeah, yeah. The best there's ever been. This bastard. People can't hate on it. Like I went through a jar of it and it's pretty good. It just doesn't hold the high through long term smoking, you know? Like when you first rip a couple bowls of it for a day or two, you are getting lit. I was surprised. It's the first cookies that like actually had a decent high. Like couldn't like for me. Yeah. It's been a minute, man. Like and it's a great shrub expression. I think he says it's like a biscotti BX shrub or some shit like that. I don't know if I believe that because biscotti is very particular in how it breeds and like how it like never grown it profile. I've got a bag. I've got a few bags of you to do reviews with. Like I got some lemon cherry and some biscotti and I'm trying to get that Zope for you so you can try the real deal. It's not bad, but it's got a deal. Yeah, yeah, it's good, man. Like it's just like not like the perfumey stuff has never been like my thing. It's not my forte either. But it is interesting because you don't see it as often. You know what I mean? It's for sure coming out of that Bubba. I would assume like something called Zope would smell soapy. It does to a certain degree. It's like a perfumey soap that like what Bubba does because that's what it is, right? It's soap, which is like Bubba kush kushments. And then I think crossed to Z. I don't know if that's like the actual lineage or not, but it's what I would assume based on the name because it smells kind of like Skittle. It looks like Sherb. It smells like Skittle's and some perfume notes behind it and like, so it was interesting. I thought it was enjoyable, but it's just not something that I would like gravitate towards like every day, you know, like I like Sherb, but it's just not a daily driver for me. Yeah. But the future, fuck, if I know what's coming up, man, like everyone's just trying to see come up. Yeah. What do you want to see or what interests you? Well, and that's like the thing like why I've kind of just like stopped doing personal breeding at all is like, I'm in like an exploration phase right now, you know? And so like I've got some of these testers from Pac that I'm really excited about. I've got those Blue Bonnet F2s that you just sent me. Those are definitely high up on the list to get pops. Um, what else? Like punchy, punchy, punchy. Yeah, punchy is going in, but that might be a commercial run. I'm stoked to see that too. Yeah, I'm going to, I'll get that one worked in for sure. I know how to, I know who to leverage. Yeah. But, um, it's honestly like a really big, huge question in the industry is like, well, what's next? Because everything has just been a continuation of those original cookies cuts. And like nothing has been very original. Like I was trying to explain it to them. It's just like, well, if I take Gelato, which is just supposedly Girl Scout and Sherbet, which is really just like Cherry Pie and OG and like F1 Derb and Urkel all fucked together in one big pile, you know? Like what are you really ever going to find by taking something out of the later generations and doubling it back to Urkel, doubling it back to OG, doubling it back to even F1 Derb or whatever, if that's really in there. Like I don't really know what you're going to find besides a slightly reinvigorated version of the same exact thing, you know? And so I view those as just like dead ends. I don't think there's really much that's like currently available that's going to make any waves anytime soon beyond like what we already see with permanent marker and soap and gassy candy type strains, you know? You were talking about something earlier, the big rush for OG now, which is a lot of us. Dude, everyone's searching again right now. Like I've done a bunch of work like making in-crosses and like crossing different OGs together, which was its own whole fun adventure in reversals. Cause like it's not the hardest reversal out there, but it's not easy either. And like I got them to fucking dump, bro, after on the third attempt, you know? Cause like we were working together just like slowly honing in the recipe of like, all right, well here's a normal STS recipe. Oh, that's too strong. Let's dilute that down. Let's play with some additives and so like most of the additives I'm playing with are like different metals because silver is a plus two ion. And so if you go down that line on the periodic table, there's a few others too. There's cobalt, I think zinc is one. There's a bunch of these heavier metals that all kind of fit and replace that same effect. Not quite as well as silver, but that's why I'm using them as like a low dose additive is like, well, do they push certain things over the edge? And like with OGs, like the STS with cobalt seemed to fucking do the trick. That's funny. Yeah, it was a, I'll keep my dilutions to myself. You guys can fuck around and find out if you want to do it too, but it took me some fucking work to get there, you know? I looked through- I think that's the reverse triangle too if I remember correctly. That's the one that kind of pushed it over as a cobalt STS. Yeah, but like we both know what type of fucking cobalt that was. And like, I don't even understand how it's possible that it works. Yeah, that's true, that's very true. Yeah, and so like, well, like most people's recipes are really just a fat dose of silver nitrate. Yes, yeah, essentially. And then like, you know, you throw some fucking thiosulfate in there, you get silver thiosulfate for some of it. Wham, wham, wham. Yeah, it works for most things, but there's definitely a lot of genetics that like, like Z, Z does not like that normal ass fucking recipe. No, it doesn't. Yeah, and like I've actually had some better success with it using colloidal recently, which I know is like a joke and reversal tech, but like with our buddy's stupid overpriced mix with a routine spray of colloidal seemed to do the trick for the Z family. Have you ever seen a one and done spray? Yeah, it sucks. No, it works for a lot of shit, but it's just like- Is it one and done? Debatable. Because every 14 days, the sex tries to push back. So- It does, yeah. And so that's what I've noticed with these one and done is what I've noticed is that the top 30% of the plant always goes back to female before it actually drops pollen or it drops it and then all those stigma just like absorb all that pollen before it can like- Exactly. You can collect it, you know what I mean? And so I don't like the idea. People seem to think that there's this like one and done spray that works on all plants magically and like I just haven't seen it work out that way. It doesn't make sense to me sexually because if they start reversing in two weeks, at least two sprays. Yeah, but two doses of a fucking gram of silver nitrate per gallon will fucking fry your plants. At the same, yeah, exactly. And so that's what you see with those sprays too and like I was talking to one of these guys that won't be named about his reversal tech and he was basically telling me that like he thinks that the stress response from the spray itself is one of the number one inhibiting factors in reversals. And I was like, that actually makes a lot of sense to me. Like if you spray silver nitrate and it has the effect of blocking ethylene but it also activates all of these stress responses from. Yeah, that that's gonna fuck up what you're trying to do. Yeah, cause we do find that plants at the ultimate health are the best to reverse. Yeah, say what you will about that guy. He was fucking pretty bright, you know what I mean? Oh yeah, I know you're talking about. Yeah, yeah. And so like that was one of the key takeaways. Like we had like a two hour long conversation about our different reversal techs and stuff. Have you talked about injecting gibrelic acid straight into the stem? No, we didn't get that far. Okay, no. But I got some good tips though that I actually am curious because they were the idea was founded from like peer reviewed research where I was like, that is really cool. Like I'm actually gonna pursue that and see if like, you know this was all bullshit and just conceptual or not. You know what I mean? Yeah, some of it was that I got from that dude that sounded really intelligent was conceptual bullshit. But that's cool man. In application though was kind of interesting. One of the techniques was and it only worked a few times but it did work was applying GA3 late to stretch the anthers. Yeah, exactly. Or like one other one was like ABA absciscic acid is like really important in seed set and senescence in plants and like a spray of that followed up by an oxen to negate the effects beyond so you're not senesting the plant but you're assisting seed set. I was like, yeah, that's an interesting concept. Like I'm gonna play with that, you know what I mean? Because oxen is an ethylene promoter in itself. And so like, it doesn't always make sense why you would wanna do that when you're combining it with an ethylene blocker, you know? There is some action combining certain like IBA, IAA with- Exactly. Like the oxen source is the key differentiator because they don't all have the same response even though they're all oxens. And so like the avenues that I wanna look down are like 2IP, benzoamino purine, you know like there's a lot of different oxens to go and experiment with that I don't think anyone really has. And so like, yeah, you know what I mean? Like it's not necessary to get like everything to reverse but there are certain plants that like, like I'm kind of thinking of it as like groupings of families. Like I have my OG spray now and it works really well for that. I know how many times I need to spray it and what rotation at what concentration. And it seems to work really well across the board for OG types. I'm slowly getting towards my Z recipe, you know what I mean? I have to like verify that right now. I just have kind of like one-off anecdotal evidence but it fucking dumped twice as much pollen as it normally does. That's a plus dude. I mean, I know CSI's still fighting with it and like instead of trying to get to S1s to reverse those to try to get, you know what I mean? I've thought about that too because I have a handful that I'm working with right now that are much easier to work with than Skittles itself. They're not dead ringers as far as the nose department. They never quite are, you know, that Skittles nose is a fucking one-off, man. It's a true outlier. We ran through a lot of S1s and we didn't find a dead ringer. We found a lot of things close. Oh, we're here. We're here, okay. I didn't want to just tease that. No, no, no, we'll keep that as a teaser. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we may be doing a Z-sharp Keyline Pie episode with local maybe. Me and him have been having excellent private conversations about it. I'm gonna do my best to also either bring CSI in on that or let you guys to write me down a bunch of questions and things you want me to, or things you want his opinion off and I'll get that into the show. I almost want like opinions of my findings too, whether he like thinks that that makes sense based on what he's seen. I'm sure actually he really does. Cause I didn't run his S1s. We made our own. And so like- You had to wait for the same cut. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like Skittles is pretty identifiable once you know it. And you got it from the same source. And I think it's cool, yeah. There's like a constructive side to this too for me, which is I think local is actually interested in like a little project himself to kind of- Oh, for sure. Mix them out and see how to like, you know, do what with it. So I think it could both be quite a cool like history slash like info slash speculation, but also maybe like a hypothetical breeding project kind of episode as well. So I will say this, in meeting Dan and over time becoming like knowing who he is and in cannabis and stuff. And even though he worked for that was cool, but when we really, really, really connected is when I realized that there's not a lot of people besides me and CSI, and maybe the other person we were talking about has done a lot of research into reversals. But when I realized he had done more, he'd taken the research further than I'd taken it. That's when I got interested in it. Kind of, it really did put me back in the mokes for a long time. I was just kind of done with my spray as far as okay, it's there. I finished it, I'm happy with it. It does what I needed to do for the most part, right? But it's kind of inspired me to get back into it a little bit and get back into the science and the R and D and get back into it. So thanks for that inspiration too, because like it felt very dead for a long time in that sense. Yeah, yeah. Oh, it's just colloidal silver as they always say. Yeah, my spray is just colloidal anyway. So it doesn't matter, right? Yeah. Obviously it looks like this. Dude, every time we bring it up in the fucking on the, like when we're doing the YouTube live and shit, there's always some asshole that says colloidal, exclamation, colloidal. Yeah, every fucking time. And I see it and I think of you. I'm just like, I know he saw that too. Oh, that fucking douchebag. He just cringed in his heart. Yeah, yeah. I'll just say that I am selfishly stoked because like now that we have access to Farmer Den, like we're just gonna, oh man, we're gonna milk it. Milk it for context. Yeah. I've got a lot of things to say. It may get redundant at a certain point, but it's just like, I never have answers. I just have data points, you know what I mean? It's like, I've seen a lot of plants. I've grown a lot of plants. I've done a lot of breeding. And like, I don't ever claim to have the answers for anything, but I can tell you what I've seen. You know what I mean? That's all that matters. Like we always talk about, and like the whole Skittles thing, it's just like whether Keyline Pie and Green Sherb are the same cut. I'm not convinced, but certain people are, you know what I mean? Like it's a- But the problem is we've never had Keyline Pie- All of them together. We've never had a source from the Keyline Pie source and Green Sherb in the room at the same time. And now we can't source the Keyline Pie source. Supposedly burning Bush nurseries down in SF is still up and running and still sells it. And I'm just like, for real? Yeah, yeah. You can still get order it off his fucking website. You know what I mean? But I've never ordered it. Yeah, I've never tried it because I was just like, what are the chances? By clone? Yeah. By clone, man. And he was apparently one of the closer original sources from what I've been able to tell. And so like, that whole mystery is still just like unfolding for me, you know? Like I keep grinding through it and it never answers it. I'll find the picture of the Keyline Pie-S ones that I have. You're gonna be like, oh shit, Green Sherb. Yeah, yeah. And it could be that too, like realistically. So when I grew Green Sherb as well, it was when I was working in LA, I think we did one run of it alongside the Sunset because we got it at the same time. And it was very different than what I remember from Keyline Pie. It was much more gelato structured. It was bigger. It was not, like Keyline to me reeks like Keyline. Like it is that exact profile, you know? And I've done a lot of breeding with it and I still have a lime right now that I have seeds of in the fridge. That when I pop it, people tell me, they're like, yeah, it's fucking limey. And I'm just like, dude, it was fucking lime. It was always lime. And so like when people tell me other things about Keyline, like, oh, kind of just like this candy-ish, like maybe melon and mango or whatever, that's kind of like the one that I got. You know? Interesting. Also another little point, I think it was like fucking NorCalicemag. One time I deep dive his Instagram because I was just like, oh, I know you fucking worked Green Sherb for a while. And I scrolled all the way down to like fucking, like, I don't know, 2013 or some shit. And to the first picture and mention of Green Sherb and it had seeded itself in that run of his. Oh, no. You know what I mean? And so like, it obviously had the potential to do that. You know what I mean? It didn't look amazing, but it had the potential to. I'd never had any sexual instability with Keyline Pile like whatsoever. That's interesting, yeah. In my breeding with it? It was different for Gassy. See, mine wasn't Gassy. It was just straight lime. Guys, then I also wondered- You're gonna have to save this, okay? I know, I know, I know. We can go deeper on that. I've got so much for you on that. Good point. This is the cliffhanger. I'm the producer of the show right now. There it goes. There it goes. It's done. It's done. This has been really awesome. And like, I'm pretty sure we only like had a fraction of what Dan had to say. Oh yeah, bro, yeah. Like I said, I can fucking talk, just ask my wife. Like, she thinks I'm so fucking annoying. Well, yeah, it's fine. It's okay. We'll definitely have you back on, dude. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Often, yep. Yep, it looks like the crew's getting much bigger each time for the podcast. We're finding some amazing people. Yeah. Are really good communicators, like Little Hill, you, Boots. Like there's people that are showing up that like people really enjoy hearing from and that I personally enjoy talking to. And a big part of this podcast, and thousands learn this with me, if there's someone I really don't like, jive with per se. Like maybe we're good friends, but like communicating and sometimes it just doesn't work. And like, I've really enjoyed this conversation, bro. So I appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent, man. Now I've really enjoyed getting in with the community more, especially like Kush of the Giants. Like I haven't talked with him much, but like we've been on voice chat a few times together and like hearing the fucking episode with him and seeing his pictures of his fucking outdoor. I was just, yeah, I was floored by some of that stuff and the resin content on that. I was just like, oh my God, yeah, I am such a shitty outdoor grower compared to this guy. Me too. A shitty grower in general. I just know stuff, you know what I mean? You're the same, yeah, he's so humble too. It's just like, you just never guess, yeah. Yeah, super nice guy. And he's only a few hours north of me. I gotta link up with him sometime. Oh yeah, yeah, he's a great dude. Yeah, no, all the same interests, fucking love weed, guns, hunting, fishing, all that shit, man. All the good stuff from America. America! Yeah! All right, so is there anything you want to plug, shout out, any of that stuff? Yeah, I'll give a couple of the homies shout outs. My lifelong best friend, Lucas, stood by me through everything and all these fucking stories. He was there for fucking all it and still a fucking standup dude, still in my life. I just went fishing with him, fucking, what was that last weekend? So fucking Lucas, you're my boy. And I'm Lucas. Yeah, Jake out in Oklahoma. I know you're having some hard fucking times, fucking keep it up, bud. Shit's gonna turn around and fucking Drew and Pedro out there as well. You guys are fucking rock stars. All my boys on the syndicate, you know, we're all, I'm in the youths, you know, with the younger cats. So it's like, Locke, fucking Ernst, thousand and me. Yeah, the kids table. That is not the kids, that is not the kids table. That is not the kids table. There is a kids table. That ain't it. I personally call us the youths because we got so many fucking old timers and shit. I love it, dude. I love the fact that like, I can genuinely feel good that it's not just a bunch of us from a certain generation trying the hardest to reach out to the next generation. We have people younger than us, smarter than us, better looking than us. You know, it's great. I love it, dude. I love it. No, and like shout out to all the homies that have been sending me seeds. And, you know, making me feel welcome and shit. Like I got a nice little care package from high and lonesome and from pack and shit. And so, you guys are fucking awesome. Glad that I get to hang out with y'all and fucking, you know, ask the million fucking questions I always do. I always hit people up in DMs and I'm like, there's no niceties. It's just like, hey, what do you think about this plant? But that's how we all are. Like, it's so acceptable. We're also fucking on the spectrum. We're like, yeah, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah, yeah, I fucking love Popeye. Is it like green crack to you? Tell me what you think, Danny. I mean, what else I'm going to... Are we going to be talking about our lives? Hell no. No, yeah, yeah. My life's a long sad story until more recently. And so I like make my own family and like started getting some like, you know, homies with more like interests and just good people. You know, I've been a lot of good people on the server and so, and what I hope to be lifelong homies if I don't fuck it all up, you know? Yeah, we'll be like, right there. No, I'm not a hustler. I'm so sad that I tried to be for so long, you know what I mean? It just didn't work. You can't force what's not meant to be. No, I mean, I mean, a lot of us did, like his kids and with other things and other subsets, you know, like it happens and you learn our way, bro. And we found our way. I don't know what I'd do without weed. I really don't know where I'd be. No, man. And yeah, no, this server's been great for just like my overall mental health and just like the sense of community and shit. And just like, you know, I found my spot in this industry as far as just like, I'd never met weed bros that I liked that much, you know what I mean? Aim. Yeah, it's just like, there's not that many nice people in this industry and have found that like fucking 1% that's all us fucking nerds all in one place. Like it's fucking epic, dude. That's why it's first. Yeah, yeah, it's just like, no, like I'm gonna be like the best version of myself possible because I want to keep this going, you know? Yeah, absolutely, man. Yeah. And you can be around people that inspire you to be a better version of yourself, which is what you guys do for me. I think it does make you feel more whole. Yeah, yeah, no. And like you guys inspire me that it's just like, well, I may have seen a lot, but there's plenty more that I didn't see because I'm too young. And so it's so great to have that access to just like reference stuff. Yeah, for sure. You know, it's just like, I wasn't there for the, for most of the fucking 90s and 2000s in the weed industry. And so like getting that reference point is fucking huge for what I do, you know? Because if like we don't know where we've been then like how do we move forward and make something new? Exactly. You know, absolutely. That's a great sentiment. Yeah, for sure. All right. Well, with that, Thousand, do you have anything you want to plug? No, just want to thank Dan again for his time. And yeah, it's been a pleasure getting to know you. Yeah, man. No, this was awesome. All right, and with that, what do we have? We have our Patreon. Go check out Breeder Syndicate Patreon. That's where you get access to our Discord. We have tons of fun in Discord. You'll hear it at the end of the episode. So who cares about that? We got a new drop from High and Lonesome right now. We're re-stocking a lot of stuff. We have the Silver Pearl Appalachia coming up soon. So check it out. Pay attention. Watch the site closely if you want to get it because they will go fast, fast, fast. And yeah, other than that, what you got, Lifted Genetics on Instagram. They carry our stuff and a lot of our candle luminati cruise stuff. We have Gurt by Seeds in Australia. We have Right Seed Co Europe. And we have rightseeds.com where you can get our spray, other stuff like that. So I think that's it. Am I forgetting anything, Calvin? Codex. Codex, go check out the Codex. Go learn codex.thebreedersyndicate.com. We're adding to it all the time and it's gonna be constantly updated. So please check that out for a strange resource. Yeah, watching that come together on the server has been so fucking epic. People don't believe me how much work went into that. And I'm just like, oh, bro, this is, yeah, this is so much. Like go read the fucking 40,000 messages on that fucking channel. It's insane, bro. Right? Yeah, it's been awesome. Like when you make something, it looks, you just kind of tell how much has gone into it. Yeah, it's done well. That's right. 100%. And with that, we bid you all adieu. Thank you from Breeder Syndicate and we will see you next week. Cheers. Wanna sit at the table with the syndicate? Check out our Patreon and our link tree or description below. Our merch site is officially live. We have all sorts of shirts, hoodies and goodies to sort you out and shipping is super fast. And most importantly, the quality is top notch. I've been saving old designs for years for this purpose so please check it out syndicategear.com. We also have an underground syndicate discord where we get together and solve old string history together daily. It's an amazing community of learning away from IG and it's an amazing resource for old catalogs and knowledge. We hope you join our union of breeders and growers. Come check it out.