 You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be. And don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications bell so you are notified for when my next podcast goes live. And then we're on. And today's guest we've got Andrea Giovino. How are you? Hi, how are you? Thanks for having me on. Yeah, thanks for coming on. So you're on the smash hit show, get got it? Yes, it's been crazy. I've been really, really busy. Yes, it's been really good. Get Got It was like number one in 43 countries. So people are really talking about it. It's really interesting. And I think, yeah, it's been good for me. It's been keeping me very busy. Good. You've also got your own podcast out, which will plug straight away. Yes. Andrea Giovino, YouTube Andrea Giovino. It's not that everybody's jumping on these podcasts and documentaries. Everybody's telling their stories. So it's a perfect time to get hard on stories. For me, through crime cells, it's the biggest hitters. Everybody loves it. Same as a gotty thing, people will still be speaking about that 50 years, 100 years, and it will still be number one. Yes. I think I wanted to get on YouTube also because there are a lot of things that aren't facts. And I want to bring facts. I want to bring facts to the people, the truth to the people. And people are interested in that. People are interested in crime all over the world, especially, you know, American on New York crime. So I think that's what's good too. Before we get into everything, though, I always like to go back to the start of my guests, get about understanding about you, where you grew up, how it all began. Okay. It all began for me. I grew up in Brooklyn. I come from a family of 10 children, poverty, a lot of poverty, very poor. My mom was running card games for Crazy Joe Gallo back in the 60s. So she was pretty well known in the neighborhood and the guys wanted to, you know, help her out, make extra money and stuff like that. So they would do card games. She then eventually got arrested. The judge threw it out because she came in with all the kids, all this trauma. And then I learned at a very young age, you know, that because we were so poor, to look up to these guys, to idolize these guys, and to want really a better life. So we were taught, we were street kids, how to survive, how to steal, how to maneuver in a world where you don't have anything, but you want things and you learn how to get them. So I had grown up with a lot of street smarts. And then from that, the guys in the neighborhood, it was an area of poverty. So no one really had an education. I had a seventh grade education, that's no education. So I never went to middle school, high school, college, who even knew college. College was in the streets. That's how you learn in the streets. So I think that my first interaction then as a teenager, were with these guys from the neighborhood, I was 16, they were in their 20s, you had to be 18 to get in the clubs. So I started hanging with them. Then from that, I had gotten married at 18, and it didn't work out. To who? To Toby Perfetto, he was a street guy, he was hanging around guys like Robert Scarpacci, they own Scarpacci Funeral Home, it's a funeral home that, you know, when people pass, everybody uses the same person in the neighborhood. So everybody knows them, good people. And now I have a child to support, a young child, I'm 22 at this time, and a friend comes to me that I grew up with another guy, Vinnie Green. They call him Vinnie Green because he's a lot of green, a lot of money. So he says, we got this after hour club, why don't you come work, you could make really good money Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And I was like, great, I'll do it. With that, I met Frank Lino, which was the captain for the Banana family. When I met Frank Lino, I had no idea that he was who he was, because I really didn't know. Much older, 22 years older than me, very generous, very charming, very charismatic, and very polished. So he had gotten tickets to the theater here in New York and, you know, let's go to the theater, let's go to dinner. Great, went next week, go to work, have no job no more. Why? Because Frank Lino says, you can't work here no more. I call him up, Frank, what happened? No, you can't work here because I think you need to have a better life. This is a hard life. It's better for you to just be home with your child. I'll take care of you. So then I lived with him for over two years. With that, he had had a house in Florida, Pompano Beach. He had a home in upstate New York, Hunter Mountain, where you ski. So you would come out of his house and then you would just ski down to the slopes. So I learned how to ski. My son learned how to ski. We would fly out to Florida. I would take all of my friends on my family. I had family out in Las Vegas. We flew out there. So he really showed me the finer things in life. He really, I learned from him and I never had, it was more like a father figure because my dad wasn't like this kind of like we didn't, we didn't like grow up with I love you or hug you or take care of you. We had to take care of ourselves. So I think people, they judge a lot until, like I don't like to judge anyone until you're in that person's shoes and you understand what that person had been through then. But when you come from a background where I came from with extreme poverty, no education, trying to strive for a better life, and then you have a man that's more like a father figure to try to help you and save you, I think I kind of just wanted to be loved truthfully and cared for. So I did learn a lot from him. I learned a lot. I learned in those years I was with him. I witnessed a lot of street guys coming in the house. I overheard a lot of conversation. And I think what happened is that we were down in Florida, my son was five at the time. There was Anthony and Delgado Bruno, which is high profile. He was, I think, Frankie Lino's boss, Joey D'Amico. A lot of guys would come down to the house. Back then they were using a lot of cocaine. And I just didn't want that around my son. I didn't want it around my son. I didn't want it around me. I never did drugs. The conversations were like extremely aggressive and violent. And at that time, you were hearing about a lot of people getting killed in the streets. So it wasn't stupid either. I was thinking like, wow, I could be sitting in a restaurant or sitting like there with him. And they're not going to say, oh, don't kill the blonde. They're going to shoot whoever they want to shoot. So I took a flight. Frankie was out that night. I took a flight back to New York. I flew into LaGuardia Airport and he called me late that night. Like, what happened? Would you do? Would you leave? What's going on? And I just was honest. I said, when you come home, we'll talk. I can't do this no more. I just don't want to do this anymore. I said, you have 500 guys under you. You don't need me making a fool of you. I don't want to do it. I'm under so much stress. I don't want to be around these people. I wanted a better life. Was he a boss? Yeah, he was a captain. Yeah. He had like 500 guys on him. He was very well respected in the streets. Did you crave love? Did I crave love? I did. I did. I craved that because I didn't have that. I never had that. So with that, I met my second husband, which was a legal businessman, very wealthy. He was extremely abusive. So sickness attracts sickness. I always say that until you get healthy yourself and until you know what a healthy relationship is, you're only going to continue to pick sick relationships. So you've left one relationship and then picked another sick relationship. Men will abuse and hear no the bad shit. Well, he was very, very abusive. Control of? Very. Controlling. Yeah, he's took you out of your job to move you into his house. Yeah, very abusive and very verbally abusive. So after a couple of years, I divorced him. I had a nice settlement. Was a lot of, you know yourself in that game, it's love bombing. If you've not come from anything, you're getting all the gifts and for that's then it's just getting craving. Well, it's in the beginning. I know that now, but I didn't know that then at that age that. No one knew that then. No, it's only recently the last few years. Right. Like you think like, oh, wow. He's a perfect man. That is such a red flag today. And that's kind of the stuff I want to speak about on my own podcast for women is like love bombing that you think he's this prince, he comes in, he showers you with good gifts, great gifts. He's taken you on a vacation. He's wonderful. But then behind that, the mass comes off a couple months into the relationship three to six months where he's comfortable and then you see the person for who they are, which is a monster. I think majority of men are like that. Narcissistic. I think everybody's got a sense of narcissism in them. I think we're all a little wired up wrong, but some people are worse than others in a life of crime as well. Those men are broken. It doesn't last anyway. No. And I think that a lot of the men don't have respect for the women in like, they don't, they just don't, they just feel like they can just talk to them anyway, abuse them in any way. And so that I left him. And that's after that, I didn't go out for about 18 months. And that's when I started going out in Manhattan and I met John Gotti through Mark Ryder. See your second husband was was another chance that he could have got killed because he was with few. No, no, no, no, frankly, you know, and I left off on good terms. He knew that I was a good kid. Yeah. He knew that I just wanted to have a better life for me. He was 43. I'm 22. Yeah. Yeah. That in itself. No. So it was just not good. But then when I went into Manhattan and I met that night when I met John Gotti, that in itself, I recognized when they were sitting up at that we would call it the day is like when you're married, you sit up at that big table. He was there with a bunch of guys. I recognized that these guys are street guys because they carry themselves a certain way. You know, they're very polished. They dress very nice. They wear a lot of the jewelry back then. They would wear the big diamond pinky ring. Confident. Yeah, very. Are they confident? No, is that an act? I think that's an act. You know, knowing what I know today, knowing what I know today, I didn't know that then. But I think knowing what I know today, a lot of it is they portray this persona in like, you know, who I am, this big shoddism, but then underneath that, I think they have low self-esteem because when you have to do all of this and project all of this and really when people can go out and murder and not blink an eye, I mean, you're talking about murder human beings. That's a sick person. That's not like people that have no conscience of that. How do you think a person like that is going to love anybody? Like that's like love goes out the window, I feel, because look how they make organized crime. That's more important than their own family. That becomes more important to them to be out in streets. Their wife and kids at home, they're just being abused on just another level of here's the money, shut your mouth, and I'm going to go do what I want. That's not a life. That's really not a life. But I think even now, James, I think now that I'm coming out, I'm the only woman really talking about this stuff and being comfortable in my skin to talk about the truth, the facts, and not put on any show. Men don't like it in this genre. They don't like it. Men get jealous. Men are fucking weird. They're making fucking lies about me. Listen, because everybody wants to be the head show. Everybody wants to be the fucking the king, the queen, or however it is they want to be. But people don't like when the limelight gets took away from them. No matter if it's in a life of crime, a life of fucking positivity, whatever it is, people always want to be number one. They think that they should have been in the gut, like get gaudy, like they should have been getting gud. Who is she? She's a nobody. Nobody knew her. Well, obviously you didn't do your homework and obviously you're downing 60 minutes and Barbara Wolters and Netflix and Raw TV because these people did their homework and they did want me. You know, Raw TV told me they interviewed many people and the reason they wanted me, they told me this just a couple of days ago, is because I'm giving a whole different perspective of the woman's view. And they don't like that. They don't want a woman coming out that's tough and strong because that cuts their balls off. Like who is she? Because a lot of the men that wish they were in the streets, like even fans and stuff, or who is she? Maybe you're idolizing these guys, but I don't idolize them because I know who they really are. So I was never afraid of anybody and people did their research. They know who I am. So I think it was a lot of jealousy, just a lot of fucking jealousy. Grown fucking men. Grown men, this jealous. So what happened then when you came across gaudy for the first time? So I came across John with Mark Ryder. I met Mark Ryder and they sent over a Batla Champagne, a Batla Cristal. I didn't want it. I didn't want to get involved with these guys again. I said send it back. I knew who they were. Send it back. Were you attracted to that? Was there something again within you that you were attracted to? Because as a sexy life, no matter how damaging you know what it is. I'll tell you what I was attracted to is you get attracted to. It's like a drug of the excitement, this excitement, the money, the restaurants. So let's say today you go out with some normal guy. He's not going to go give you Rolexes and diamonds and taking you to five star restaurants. Back then it was big black stretch limousines that you would send a car for you. Here's a car's picking you up. You get in the car with the limo driver and there's flowers and there's chocolates. I mean what woman wouldn't like that? But there's a big price. There's a price to that. So now at this time you have all these guys that are juggling these big cases. You know they were all being investigated so the feds were looking to come down on them hard. That was right around the time I was running with all these people. So with that, Mark Ryder comes on the dance floor. I stopped dancing with him. Mark Ryder is very close to John Gotti. He was definitely associated. He was cold right now. He's been in the newspapers here in New York a lot. The King of New York back in the 80s and the reason they called him the King of New York is because he was a major heroin trafficker, major. He actually bought Calvin Klein the designer's apartment here in Manhattan loaded. He was loaded. So he was very close to John Gotti. That's how I met John Gotti. I met John Gotti through Mark Ryder and from that we would go out like every Tuesday and Thursday night was to be out in the city because that's the nights that people come out but it's not as crowded as the weekend. So people would come out from all over and we'd always frequent the same club either this club called Club A or Regine's where a lot of the movie stars would go. These clubs were like A-listers. You couldn't get in them but yet we didn't have to wait online. The doorman knew us. The minute you pull up they park your car and then you go right to the best table in the house. Did you feel like a celebrity? I did because I didn't have, first of all, I love the fact that for me I love the fact that I put it on their tab. Charge them. I love that like using that. So it was fun. It was fun until it all comes down. So with that there were a Mark Ryder would be out business or whatever and then those nights I would go out with friends or with my sister and I'd sit at John's table and I didn't interact with John. And then this one night in particularly we were talking there were several guys there about three or four other guys and these two women were there which were women of the night and they kept bad mouthing my girlfriend like talking bad about her. So I said John excuse me. I said to them please don't talk like that. I said you're so being so disrespectful. She's my girlfriend. She's sitting at the other bar. Stop saying this. They looked at me and continued to do it. So there was a round table smaller than this. I pushed it. I said John move. I just like that. Pushed the table on the two of them, pinned them down, picked the bottle up and started hitting her in the head. With this at the time John was being watched by the feds across the bar filming. So this is all documented. So now with that John goes to pull me off of her. I was a very, very angry kid, very angry kid. I always fought in school up to seventh grade. I guess angry because I was so lack of love, lack of love, lack of poverty, shame. I wore a lot of shame, you know, didn't have clothing, didn't have shoes. I was angry. I was an angry kid. So with this, John goes to pull me off with the other guys and I go like this, get the fuck off me. You know, I'm not on your payroll. John love me, love me. He goes, she's got more balls than some of the guys that are around me. Calls up Mark Ryder the next day and says that I called her Rocky. He gave me that name Rocky. Now people are saying this isn't true. This is all like the jealousy again. So I think with that John like me called me Rocky gave me that name. And then after that, Mark was being investigated. He had this big case. He was based in 260 years. He had then gotten arrested for heroin and he was on the case with John's brother. Gene Gotti, Angelo Regirio, Anthony Rapino, because people cooperated. So with this cooperative, there was a guaranteed case he was going to jail. So the last time I had seen him was in court. He had called me up. He had, one day he had, didn't show up for court. He skipped town. He took a flight to California and they couldn't find him for like two months. And then the feds had called me. Did he contact you? No, he didn't. I didn't hear from him. But when they actually got him back into MCC, he had contacted me and I did go because he said, can you come to court? And I did go see him before he got his big conviction. But before that, before he was actually arrested, he came to my house one night with Angelo Regirio, which was very close to John Gotti. They both showed up. He said, I need you to do me a favor. And he gave me a shoe box filled with money. I didn't know how much money was in there at that time, but it was $300,000. So what happened was John Gotti got wind of this and he said, he had Anthony Rapino come over to me one night when I wasn't with Mark and said, John wants to talk to you. So I went over and I said, John, what's up? And he said, are you holding money for Mark? And I said, yeah, why? He goes, do you know how much it is? I said, I really don't. I just know it's, you know, you got to ask him. I don't know. But yeah, I do. I have it. So he's like, okay, I just wanted to know that. So I told Mark that and he was like, all right, that's fine. People got out. You know, he was what he was trying to do was trying to move money around because his lawyer told him that indictments were coming down and they were all going to be indicted in the case. So he had money all over the place. I'm sure because he was loaded. He was very like a ton of money. I think they were making back then he was pulling in because I recently visited visited him in federal prison this year. How long has he been? He got life. He got 260 years, but he might be getting out because the laws changed with drugs. So all his co-defendants are out already. So we should know in a couple months, he said, because they all got out and it looks good for him. He did 34 years. He's got an amazing story. He had Harlem and the Bronx and all of the five boroughs. You couldn't get any heroin unless you went through him. That's why they called him the king of New York. So with that, I've never heard of him. If you Google him, you'll see obviously American gangster, Mark Ryder. Why his story is so unique is because he's a big Jewish guy. He was adopted. His parents gave him up at birth, but this Jewish family adopted him and raised him Jewish. But yet he was connected very close with the Italians, but then the blacks respected him totally. Did you ever hear of Nicky Barnes? Yeah. Nicky Barnes flipped on him. Snatched. Yes. Yes. Why is there so many snatches in that life? I don't know, but then like even I'll be honest with you, you know, they, and I'm going to put these names out there. You got Sammy Gravano that was an underboss. You got Michael Francis that says he was a captain, yet they cooperated. They justify cooperating, you know, being a rat, being a snitch, whatever you want to call it. And then they say, like Sammy says, um, well, I cooperated because there were wire taps that John was going to kill me. They already had the case on John Gotti. If you watched get Gotti, those were all the true federal agents that brought him down. So I think the whole thing is a bunch of bullshit because when they take the oath and they burn the can, you know, in their hands, they burn the saint in the hands and they take the oath to these things that they would never rat. They would never do this. But when it gets too hot and you're facing too much time, then you say, I'm going to rat at a convenience to save my own ass. Okay. So the biggest fraud is that Michael Francis that he wants to make like, oh yeah, I didn't rat. I never ratted. When you walk in and talk to the government, you're a rat, you would have been killed. You would have been killed back in the day. You never as a captain, as a soldier, as a street guy. When you walk in and you go talk to the feds, you're a rat. You're a rat. What do you do when talking to the feds? Why don't you talk to your lawyer, let your lawyer fight for you? So that's a rat. They try to justify and they try to rationalize that because they have this big shoddism. Like they sit back, they go on their podcast, all of them, and they still want to make like they're in the streets. Well, no, you're a rat buddy. That's just the way it is, bud. You're a rat. So what happens with Aida then when you're with him, when they get caught? Sean, what's his name again? Mark. Yeah. Mark Ryder. When Mark Ryder got caught, yeah, so of course, yeah, you can't have a relationship with somebody like that. After that, I met John Fogarty. Who's he? John Fogarty was, I met him, he was a cocaine dealer, similar to Mark. Here we go again. Fuck it. It's Lake Attracts. Lake Attracts. Sickness attracts sickness. Again, here we go. Okay, it's not heroin, it's cocaine. Same thing. The boat, the same lifestyle, the Florida apartment, the fast boats, the cars. Okay, the fast money. I love you, loving, starving for the love again. Okay. With that, he was more addicted to the cocaine. So that was a really crazy relationship. He gets in trouble a couple of years into the relationship. He's doing eight years. He was not a rat at all. Not at all. Street guy, top street guy, very tough, Irish, very tough, Irish guy, wasn't connected with mafia mob guys, but was in the streets and didn't want to be because he didn't want to answer to anybody. So he knew a lot of people. People knew of him, but he was very tough. He gets arrested. I have two children with him. Okay. My daughter and my son. And the kids were little. My daughter was six months when he went to jail. And my son was two and a half. I was living on Staten Island. With this, he's doing an eight year bid. I have to make money. Now I learn everything. This is how I, my downfall comes. I get out on the streets. I put money out on the streets with my brother and some street guys connected, all connected to family. And with this, I gave money to fund drug dealers to go buy the drugs. And then they would pay me so much each week to make money to survive. One of the guys, this guy, Joe Florensa decides he's not paying. I didn't know he already was going to cooperate with the government. He was already cooperating. So they set him up to set us up. And my phones were being tapped. So they were listening. The feds were listening. So my brother calls and says, Joe Florensa hasn't paid. He hasn't paid in a couple, like six weeks already. He says he's not answering us. We can't get him on the phone. Um, he's not paying the money back. And at this point, it was like $30,000. This Joe Florensa, just this one person owed me that money. And this is what I got arrested for. I say, he's not paying the money. I said, go to his fucking house. I don't care if you fucking tie up his wife in front of him, split his fucking head open. I want my money. And I got arrested for that. So when I got arrested giving instructions, so here I am. I must have been about 115 pounds at the time. And I'm giving instructions to four big guys, street guys, six, two big, go split their fucking head open. Okay, so now with this, I get arrested. Um, and I'm arrested with 22 street guys, guys that are connected. And I'm facing, you know, 10 years. My husband calls out that the bail was like $100,000. They put a lien on my house. They froze all my bank accounts. They come in when the feds come in, they have a really strong case against you. So they come in, give me the cause, give me the jewelry, give me the for everything. They strip you from everything. You have nothing, nothing. I go to the bank the next day, the bank accounts are frozen. I have nothing. Literally I had not $1. So I was back to being poor, not $1. When they come in the house, my daughter was six months old. They're flipping the baby's crib underneath the mattress to see if there was anything under the mattress as far as money or anything, anything hidden, guns, whatever, they look for whatever. So with this, I would now I'm under a tremendous amount of stress on face jail time. I have nobody to watch the kids. My husband calls. He's doing eight years. I says, Hey, John, I didn't murder. I wasn't part of murder. I put money out. You need to tell the truth. Because if you don't tell the truth, you and my brother, these kids are going into child service. I said, So you better come forward and help me out here. So with this, the government wanted my brother and my husband. They didn't want me. They figured if we arrest her, they're going to flip, which happened. But when the 22 guys and myself got arrested, the feds took me into a room and said to me the day I was arrested, you better jump on that bus. Because if you don't jump on that bus first, these guys already that are going to make a deal for themselves and they're going to cooperate. So you're going to wind up doing time. So I said, I don't know nothing. I don't know nothing. I never cooperated. They said to me, we tracked you back. You were been in the streets your whole life. Your mother was friends with crazy Joe Gallo. You will live with Frank Lino. You were with Mark Ryder. Now you were with John Fogarty. You know a lot. I know nothing because I wanted to talk to my lawyer. My lawyer says, Okay, come in. I go into the office and she says, I talked to the prosecutor. They really will let you go from the case. They'll release you. You won't have no charges, but your brother and your husband are going to have to cooperate. The reason why? Because there's murders. Not even about the drugs at this point because the drugs were marijuana at the time. It wasn't because it was marijuana. So they had like 30, 40 pounds of marijuana. They don't even want you. They want them because murders are involved here. So that's how my husband, which wasn't my husband legally, he was common law at the time decided, okay, I'm going to cooperate and get her off the case. With this, month or two goes by, they go out to Tennessee. They expedite him back and they put him up in MCC in Manhattan. My lawyer comes to me again. There's a guarantee the feds have wiretap. They're going to kill you. There was a contract out of my life. Real. No bullshit from people that are still incarcerated. Mike Spinelli, Freddie Puglisi, and they were talking on the phone and said, because they weren't arrested at this time with the 22 guys. When I was arrested, this bitch has to go. She's got to be put down. We got to kill her. I mean, that was real threats that people went to jail for that. So, and he's still in jail, Mike Spinelli. I'm living on Staten Island. My lawyer says that you have to move. I said, I'm not moving. What did I do? I didn't cooperate. I didn't do anything. I'm not going anywhere. Like at this point, James, at this point, I really, I didn't care about anybody but my kids. I could care less about anybody. I didn't care about any of these men. I was done. I was sick. I was tired. I was stressed. I was just like, you know what? I got to worry about what's best for my kids. She says you got to move because if you don't move, they're going to take the kids from you because you're putting them in danger because there's guaranteed the feds are going to bring it to a judge that there's threats on your life. They relocate me. When they relocated me, it wasn't witness protection. What it was, DEA, because that's who did the case, because I was charged with a RICO. DEA and FBI funded me to be relocated. And that's how I started my whole life over. And that was September 9th, 1992. And never went out with a street guy again. Actually, it's eight years. I don't even date because I just had my fill with, you know, I don't know. I just live a really, really good life today. You know, I have a beautiful life today. How was that though, hearing that? Did you ever think that the police were trying to make it up for you to turn and give information? No, because they didn't need me. They had them. My brother was actually directly, they wanted the people that were involved in murders because that was really the people were getting turned up left and right. So no, they used me as a pawn, which was a tactic, which worked. If we arrest her, they're going to flip, they're not going to make her go to jail. You know, John Fogarty wasn't, you know, these are his kids. So that's how that panned out. Who's the most dangerous man you were around at that time? The most dangerous that I've ever seen or who I've been with. Yeah, just around when you were doing that life. Who was the most dangerous you thought? Who I thought was real scary and was the most dangerous was Anthony and Delagato. I thought he, Bruno, I thought he was very, very, very scary. Did you get a present? Did you get a feeling? Yeah, I got an instinct. Yeah, I got that instinct. I didn't get that instinct though from Tommy Karate. Who was he? Tommy Paterra. There's like old documentaries on him. He would chop bodies up and stuff. He would come to Frank Alino's house. He seemed very respectful. I didn't get that from him, but yet I did from the other, you know, and then there was another guy. I got that feeling too with Eddie Alino, but he was killed when I met Eddie Alino through Frank Alino. It was his cousin. Eddie was also going out with somebody I knew, Anna, and he married her. Just scary. Like you could just see it. You could see in some of the eyes. Yeah, they're dead. They're dead and they're the devil. And when you dance with the devil, it's never good. Because all these men, they are psychotic. Psychopaths. They're not cases where to kill people, chop people up for what? For what? For money. Money, territory, power, power. Well, that's what's making me sick. You know, people actually had asked me, people in the streets asked me, friends of mine, you're the only one that could do a podcast because all these podcasts, majority, I think 99%, I think all of them really are rats. They're all informants. They lie. They get out there. They tell how they want to tell it. But if you get out there and start telling the facts of they're all full of shit, a lot of them are full of shit, and they're narcissistic sociopaths, even in the forum that they're at right now with sitting behind the mic, they still think they're in the streets. They still talk like they're in the streets. They still fight with one another. It's insane. You have some of them that will say like a Michael Francis, oh, I changed my life. He said in one of his podcasts, my wife said, let's pray for Sammy. Well, who's going to pray for you? That's what I'd like to know. You need prayer. The way you project and the way you present yourself, I think you need some prayers. How about I ask my priest and my parishionist, let's pray for you. What's the worst thing about that leaf? The worst thing? Yeah. Murder. By far murder. Murder the abuse that the children and the wife endure because they're abandoned by you being in the streets all the time, by you putting the streets first all the time. So the kids and the wife's needs never get met. They never get met. It's like a lot of those wives become either alcoholics or drug addicts because they can't handle it. They can't handle the loneliness, the depression, like even very depressed because the husband's not there. The husband's unavailable. The husband's out cheating. They all cheat. Let's face it. Like they've said to me, some of the guys have said to me, what's the big thing about cheating? How do you even compare that when you're going out and doing murders and cheating and just having sex? That's what you're supposed to do. That's how they talk. It's deranged thinking. It's deranged. It's insane. But there's a big audience that loves to hear this stuff. They love to talk about it. They love to hear about it. They idolize them. They still idolize them even now. I think Sammy's got the biggest following. He is a sociopath. He talks about it like his glory days. Did you ever come across him back in the day? I didn't know Sammy back in the day. I knew John because Sammy back in the day and that's another thing he contradicted himself. He said in one of the things pertaining to me, one of his podcasts, a clip, oh, I don't think she knew Gotti, but Gotti knew her. So what is it, Sammy? Did he know me or didn't he know me? So Sammy at the time was hanging out in Brooklyn with Frankie DeChico while we were in Manhattan with John Gotti. So I didn't meet Sammy Gravano. Sammy Gravano knows of me because he's very close to my ex-husband John Fogarty because they were in Arizona together doing time together in Whitsack and witness protection. So they became close. So that's how Sammy knows of me. How hard was it to get out that life? For me? Yeah. Oh, I mean, when I was arrested, I just got away from it all. I was relocated. I started my life over. It was very hard, extremely hard because here I go to a different state. I don't have an education. I am completely isolated. I mean, there's no Italians. You know, I'm like, go to the store. There's no Italian products. I was like, lost. And I think though that I developed into the person I was supposed to be, the only friend I had for the first two years was the priest. I joined the Catholic Church, which I was always a Catholic, always a practicing Catholic. And the priest would come because I didn't trust anybody. The priest would come every Tuesday at 10 o'clock in the morning, Father John David's, and he would talk to me because that was the only adult conversation I had at that time because I didn't want to make friends. That was for the first two years. With that, I started also seeing a therapist and working on myself inwardly and trying to understand why was I making these choices. People would say you have bad luck. It's not bad luck. That's not bad luck. I kept making the same choices over and over. So until I could really be honest with myself and dig deep down and understand why did I make those choices, I made those choices because I didn't feel good about myself. My self-esteem was lower than an aunt. I didn't have a self-esteem. I thought that's what I deserved because I didn't know how to speak with educated men. I had no knowledge to any type of education. So I didn't fit in. I fit in with them because I knew the language. That's how I was raised. So I think as time went on, I grew. I developed. I worked on myself. I started building my self-esteem in a natural way. I got to a point one time and I said to the therapist, I can't afford this. I just can't afford it. And she said, I want to help you. I'm going to do it for you for free because I see you really all you've been through. You need this. You need, and that was wonderful. So I think that where I'm at today is that I'd like to bring and I try to bring the awareness to women to make them understand. It doesn't matter what culture you're in or what city or country you come from. If the red flag is there and it can be in, you know, a movie industry, it could be on Wall Street. It can be a hip hop artist. And you're staying with him just for the money and just for the gifts and just for material things. It's going to lower your self-esteem because the minute, what I've learned, the minute you depend on someone else, you're going to be disappointed. You will always be disappointed. What are the red flags for people? The red flags are that coming in and love bombing. The gifts. I love you within three days a week. I'm in love with you. But women fall for it. They fall for it. They do. Get the fuck out of here. Right today. I'd say this fucking guy's a mental case. He doesn't even tell me. But people are like that. Women are fucking nuts as well. I'm telling you, women are. They want that. They want to hear that. They want to hear. And men are good manipulators. Yes. Women want to hear. He loves me. Oh my God. He gave me this. He gave me that. Does this with everybody. And they have a pattern. They usually follow the same pattern of what they do with every new relationship because it works. It works. It obviously works. So women fall for it. And then the real person comes out. So the red flags are that love bombing is that, oh my God, he's great. Oh my God. They go back and tell their girlfriends, he owns this. He owns that. He's great. He bought me a gift. Takes me to the best restaurants. He's wonderful with my kids. We're going on vacation. Okay. All right. Let's wait and see. And it happens all the time. Just wait until it starts kicking fuck out of you. Yes. Yes. Or he's got the attitude, the control and get the fuck off my back. Yeah. You know, when that's thoughts coming out. So narcissistic sociopaths. I've done my research. Every characteristic goes back to that type of personality because that type of personality doesn't have empathy for a human being. They don't feel for another human being. It's all about them. It's all about me, me, me, I, I, I want all this, you know, for me. And that's like when we first started out. Even I've, I'm in an arena with all men. I'm the only woman doing this right now. The only woman, these motherfuckers are so jealous. They're jealous bastards. So, but I'm, I'm staying. I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to fight tooth and nail and I'm going to stay the course and nobody's pushing me out of any arena. I could KLS and I'll tell the facts and bring the truth. And I got some great guests coming on my show that have done prison time 30 years, 27 years, 32 years that never ratted. That just don't have it in them to rat. Cause then I hear Sammy said about even Mark Ryder. Oh yeah. Mark Ryder, he was going to rap, but they were going to kill his daughter. That's such a lie. That's such a lie. This guy, there are guys that never ratted. They just don't have it in them to do that. So they try to rationalize, justify. And I think that's the kind of stuff I'm going to bring out, you know, and that I want to bring out. When did it come to the realization that how fucking psychotic that life was? How many years for me? Yeah. Well, my arrest woke me up. That was the reality of it. When I was arrested, woke me up where there's a contract out on my life and my son at the time, my oldest son was 16. And he would go in the morning, which was heart wrenching and go look under the car to see if there was a bomb under there because like if they found me, they wanted to kill me. So what I put my children through was disgusting. I was living a disgusting life. I was a disgusting mother to think that this was going to all pan out and nobody was going to get the consequences of this. You know, it's a disgusting life when you have fighting on the streets for survival like I did for money and not caring about someone else's best interest, you know what I mean? As they're going to get hurt, they're going to get killed. I mean, it's ruthless. And when you're on the streets, it's ruthless and you have to be ruthless. But that was the way of the streets. So no, I didn't like it. I don't like it. I've been, it's like 30, I want to say 31 years now because I was relocated in 1992. I was arrested at that year. And then from then on my, I developed into the person I'm supposed to be. I developed into the person that God wants me to be and I just live a good, clean, honest life, you know. What's the biggest regret you have been in that life? The biggest regret I have is, is going on the streets and getting arrested and what I put my kids through. That was, that was a big regret for me. How hard does that look, potentially losing your kids, going to prison? That was the hardest part. For what really? Yeah, that was the hardest point in my life. But what that was about, and that's what I really would like to tell women is that because I had, and I did have, I didn't think I knew how to support myself, but I really did. Because when I was relocated to Pennsylvania, I had to support my kids. And you know what I did? I utilized what I knew growing up. I nannied children for wealthy families, for doctors. I nannied. I cleaned homes. I was very humble. I cooked meals for very wealthy people because I'm a great cook. And I utilized everything I knew growing up with that I didn't need an education for. I just knew how to do those things as a survivor. I never went on welfare. I got out. I would take my kids with me, little kids. A builder gave me an opportunity. I was out one night with girlfriends and I heard these big builders, they build million dollar homes in my area. And I heard them saying that they needed someone to do new home detail cleaning. I had not a fucking clue what this meant. I didn't even know what it meant. I went over and I said, excuse me, I do that. And he goes, you do? I said, yeah, I do that. I'll definitely, I'll come in, I'll clean the house because I figured how hard could it be? We do that. My company does that because you have a car. I said, I don't have it on me now. I said, but when do you need it? He says, tomorrow. I says, I'll be there. And I got the contract for that. I go home and get my kids after school because you have to do these new home detail cleaning in the evening because in the daytime, the contract is a working in there. So right before the house is ready to be put out to the buyer, the house has to be completely detailed. That means the windows, everything's got to be scrubbed, the bathrooms, everything's got to be not just nothing. And I got that contract. So I knew how to survive. I was working hard, humbling myself from having a housekeeper which lived with me when I lived on Staten Island. I had to live in housekeeper. I was cleaning people's houses. It humbled me. It made me the person I am today. I love to give back. I love to help people if they need it. If someone's down here, I like to pick them up and help them. So I think that I'm a survivor. I'm just a survivor in every way, shape and form. And I think everyone is good at something. So even with no education, you know, I sat with people like Barbara Walters. I sat on 60 minutes and I held my own because what I did is I developed me. I wasn't afraid anymore. I wasn't afraid to not be able to hold the conversation. I wasn't afraid anymore where I didn't know the language and I didn't fit in. I was comfortable with who I was at this point. I got away from the men. I didn't want to be around men. And I developed. I was reading a lot. I invested in myself and started to learn more and ask questions. You know, I love going to museums. I love to go to the theater. I just started developing and not being afraid to ask questions if I don't know something. And even now, if I don't know what a word means, I'll just go and look up the word and understand the correct meaning of it. But I never allow anyone to think that they're better than me or I can't sit and talk with them. Never. It doesn't matter that to me. I could sit and talk with criminals, the lowest of the low, or I could sit and talk with politicians. Were you ever worried that they could have still tried to kill you even though you'd left? No, no, because I think that I don't worry about that, James. I'll tell you why don't worry about that. I've become so enriched with myself. The guy upstairs is going to say when I'm going to go, not them. I don't give anybody that much power over me ever. No one's getting that much power over me. I don't live my life in fear. I never did. I never ever did. I think that's why I decided to write a book. I went public. I continued to do a lot of publicity. I've done tons of publicity. What was the book? The book was Divorced from the Mob. I did that in 2004. So hard cover. How can people get that? Amazon, yeah. Is that sales went up in that again with the... Well, I guess like a lot of people are looking to buy the book. Yeah, man. Like I say, this is business, man. Plug, plug, plug is there. Because you weren't just going to get got you another got you documentaries. Oh, I've been on so many documentaries. I was on Guardian Sun on A&E. I did Mafia Killers on Reels. I did Gangsta Chronicles for A&E. I did the We Channel, something gangsters. I've been doing this for 30 years now. A lot of TV, a lot of TV. But you're a good speaker though. Thank you. I think I'm comfortable with that today though, because I feel that that only comes from developing me, developing who I was. Because back then, no, I wasn't. I was more or less fighter. I'm going to fight. I'm going to get out there and do what I got to do. But I wouldn't have talked to a guy that's educated or a good guy. I wouldn't have because I would feel he's nothing. It's not that though. Even though girls will be watching this and they'll be in that partner who's in a life of crime. But the UK life of crime is totally different from the mafia, the organization. But these girls were thinking, not my man. He would never do that. But just wait till you got the black eye, wait till you took full control of your life, wait till you're dependent on them and you just stripped you back of no friends and nothing would have just got full control. This is the way it works in that life of crime. You're a low vibrational being anyway. So you're clearly not, you're willing to destroy lives anyway. So you're not a good person. No, you're not a good person. I think truthfully that karma comes back on you. Karma's real. That karma is real. That's definitely real. That karma is real. That karma comes back on you. And you do have to answer, you know, you do have to answer for that. And I think I believe in, I believe in God. And I think if anyone, if you believe in God, you have to believe in the devil. And I think a lot of these men walk with the devil, like they're lieutenants for the devil. Because you're not walking with God. You're definitely not walking with God when you do stuff like that. You're walking with the devil. But you tend to see, I always say this, but every man who turns to a life of crime, it becomes violent. Every single one was bullied or abused when they were kids. Yeah, a lot of them. Every one, every one. I know. There's not any sane man who said that. You're right. You're 100% right about that. So you see the damage. This is why with these podcasts as well, it's not a judge, the broken men who killed or sold drugs or destroyed lives. It's once you understand their story, you realize they're in pain. So any man who holds a gun or a knife, it's because they're broken. So what happens is they don't want to feel pain anymore, sort of deflect their pain and try and hurt other people. Exactly. They don't get hurt. And it's, they're fragile. People always ask the questions, do you ever get scared? Do you ever get intimidated? No, because what I see is vulnerability. These men are scared. They're scared underneath that because most of these men do not work within. They don't work on themselves. They're never going to come forward and say that. They're never going to come forward and say what they've been through as a child or what happened to them as a child. Like I wore a lot of shame as a child. I was starving for love as a child. I was fending for myself at a very young age for food as a child. So yeah, I'm an angry kid. I think that until you really work on yourself and identify with who you are, you're not going to be any good to anybody. You know, I have a beautiful relationship with each of my children. I have four, three sons, three adult sons and my daughter and two grandkids and one on the way. I have beautiful family. Thank you. What about your son? Is that, how old are they now? And there was ever a concern they would go to the same leaf that you made? No, no, no, no. My oldest son is 48. He's a great kid. He owns a construction company. He originally wanted to be a priest. He went to Catholic school, you know, but then decided not to great morals, morally conscious of everything. My second son does very well also, very involved in church. He's also church person. He had some rough roads as a teenager. I had problems with him, but I rule with an iron fist. I was the mother and the father and I don't put up with no bullshit. So the third son also just good kids work. And my daughter, which is here, she's, I have a baby coming on the way in April. We're very close knit. And I think that I'm the mother and the father to them. I'm everything to them. I'm everything to them. I'm everything. So it makes me feel good. Like people will say to me, especially now with all the attention I've gotten from Get Gotti, why don't you date your beautiful one? Why don't you date? I am so fulfilled with my children and my grandchildren that I have such a beautiful life. I don't want to take any time away from them. You know, and they'll even say, my, you should go out. But Do you get scared? I just get like, I've had so much disappointment like with men. I just like, you like so many men is so broken. So many men is so problem. And then if you're divorced and I'm going to date you, so why are you divorced? You know, like, yeah, everybody comes with baggy. Everybody comes with baggage, but it's what you can deal with. And then how do you learn to trust them? Because it seems that if you're still a little scared, I have a lot of trust issues. I'll be honest with you. I have a lot, a lot of trust issues. Overall, I have a lot of trust. That's because I've remained out with a fucking serial killer. But it's okay if you're saying you don't want to date men, but men will be thinking, I don't want to date you because every man you've went with Are you not in prison or fucking dead? And then what bothers me, you're so right. If I did date, they go, are you afraid the minute you say to me that I'm done? No, I'm not afraid, obviously. No. But that's what it's all about. Life's all about risk. But again, if you're content and in a good place, you don't want to jeopardize it because you know how long it's took you to get here. Right. So it's fucking scary. It's very scary. And I'm in such a good place right now. I have a beautiful home in Bucks County, a beautiful home. I live alone, Bucks County PA. Yeah, a couple of hours from here from the city, I have a beautiful country home. I live alone. I garden. I have a beautiful garden. I feed the birds. I'm very into nature. I have a big 100 pound pit bull, which I'm a big pit bull advocate. My dog is like my husband, my best friend, my everything. And I have the grandkids and my kids. So I'm fulfilled. I feel like I'm in a good place in my life. And then I'm getting all these opportunities from Get Goddy, all these different things of podcasts and meeting different people. So I don't know where my life is going, but I'm open to it. Yeah. How did Get Goddy come about? Again, smash that show on, believable. I loved that. I watched it all in one sitting. Get Goddy came about where the producers did the research and like they wanted someone, a different point of view from a woman. And when they called me, they were interviewing me and I interviewed them back because I wasn't sure if I wanted to do it. And then when they said they wanted to bring the people that actually worked on the Goddy case, the law enforcement, which I think they did a phenomenal job because it was actually, they told the accurate story of how they actually brought down Get Goddy. What I can't understand is why were they using phones? Why were they so brazen? Why were they so brazen on the phone? I don't understand that. The mob guys. I think that's an arrogance. It's an arrogance. It's an arrogance that you got to remember John Goddy got away with four cases before that case. Did they feel untouchable? Yes. They think they're untouchable. They think they can get away with it. And I think that you never think when you're in the streets, they're going to come for you. You always think like, no, not me. Not me. It's denial. It's part of denial. I think they all do that. Yeah. Did you realize how big that show was going to be? Did you get to see it before anybody? No. Was it a premiere? No, we don't get to see it. I don't get to see it. I got to see it when you see it, when it airs. But a lot, I got a lot of, like, backlash with they put associate, Andrew DeVine associate, you weren't an associate. No, I wasn't an associate. I didn't put that. I'm not the director of the producer. They're fucking kids. I know. I know. It's like. Go boys, go girls. And they ran with that. They ran with that. I'm not the director or the producer. But if you Google the word associate, a fucking driver could be an associate. Yeah. Anybody could be an associate. Oh, yeah. Your associate hung around John Goddy. But they ran with it. Oh, she said she's an associate. She said she's this. Oh, fuck you. So what's happened then, since it's been released? So since it's been released, I've just been really busy with a lot of work. You seem to enjoy it, though, speaking about that life and you get a twinkle in your eye, because no matter who you are, no matter how much you change, how much inner work you do, how much you try and see the world differently, still part of you misses that life. Well, it was a big part of my life. Because the adrenaline, the fucking Euro pathways, the receptors in the brain. Well, it was a big part of my life. It's that euphoric feeling comes back. So it was a big part of my life back then, you know, and where it brought me today and the life that I have today. So and people want to hear about it. People are interested in that. People are interested in what the woman has to say. It's not always all about the men. You know, the women suffer, the children suffer. So it's it's not as much as it's hyped up to be as far as glamour and all. It's heartache, a lot, a lot of heartache. The kids grow up fucked up, too. The fault is not there. It's not. They're not there. I mean, so. How is it, though, when Michael and Sam and I were out speaking out and saying you weren't with John, you're tearing lies. Does that push you off? Are they coming from Sammy? No, I don't like he's a liar. He's a blatant liar coming from Michael Francis. I was like, who the fuck are you? I never met you. I think he met John Gotti once or twice. People in the streets told me he didn't even know John Gotti. He might have met him once or twice. I was in his company way more than him. And who is he to have an opinion on me that you don't even know me? But at school by stuff, what happens is this is a slave of YouTube. People are still creating views from your name. They watch a documentary next month and it'll be the same again. You've just got to fire back. So when you start up your own stuff, respond. This is what it's all about. Well, that's what I'm going to respond. Actually comes out today. It is all business. I'm responding to them Friday. I wanted to get my intro out today because I don't want to respond to them with my introduction to people. No, no, no, no. I don't give them that, but I am going to respond because that's what it's about. Yeah. And do you lose respect for so-called gangsters and killers and businessmen? I do. I do. I have no respect for any of them. It just seems this is grown ass men who gives a fuck. Understand? You know what I've learned about a lot of them? I don't have a lot of respect for a lot of them. When they do go to jail and it's the real deal, you're nobody in jail because you don't have that gun with you. You don't have that knife with you. Unless you really know how to use your hands and how to defend yourself, you're nobody in there. Did any of them know how to use their hands? Because they're all seen fighting out. Yeah. Well, I heard that Nadi got beat up in jail. I mean, that was public knowledge. People put that out there in newspapers and showed he was beating up. People said, you're nobody in here. You're nobody. I know Sammy had, well, Sammy was in Witsek, but even in Witsek, you're going to have problems in jail. I think a lot of them, yeah, they, you know, don't look out of shape though and quite fat smoking and drinking. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Was there any who looked after themself and presented themself? I think Mark Ryder, he was definitely, and my ex-husband, Fogarty, Irish guy, he always used a box so he could definitely defend himself. But a lot of them, when they get arrested, they're, when you go in, and that's why I think a lot of them do cooperate, because deep down they are scared. You know, they'll come out with some kind of an excuse, well, I cooperated because so-and-so was going to say this or this one did this. There's no excuses for being a slave to my life. There's no excuse. And so what happens is it is because they're scared. So there's no point to be able to shut in if they are. If you're in that life, if you're killing people, but then you switch on people because you heard through the great vinyl and you thought that, you've still got to go away on morals. You choose that life, be a man and accept what follows you. Be a man and accept it. Michael Francaise says he was a boss, okay, and wants to pretend to be a boss now. And then he says in one of his podcasts, oh yeah, my wife looked at me and said, don't go to that meeting because you might get arrested. So you're listening to your wife? What kind of fucking boss were you? What kind of boss were you? So he's a big hypocrite. He's a real hypocrite. Was there anybody you respected in that life? Respected? I did. Danny Marino. Who's he? Danny Marino was the underboss after Gotti went away. Sammy took over and then Danny Marino was next in line. He was very classy, very, his kids, he educated all of them. He didn't want them in the life. He was very reserved. He wasn't flashy. You would think he would be your finance guy or your insurance guy. He didn't come off like that. I liked him. He was a nice man, family man, ruthless, but didn't have that arrogance about him. Was there many women involved? Or were they just always in the house just in the- The women? Yeah. The women stay home and just stay in the house and of these men, they just take care of the family. Every single woman? Yeah. Was there never any nights out for the women and the men to come for dinner? I think the husbands take the wives out maybe on Saturday night for dinner, but not really more than that. They all cheat. They all have women on the side. What's the mafia like now? Is it fuzzled out? I think that people say that it is still. I feel that since all these men cooperated and so many do, like there was a big case this week, the Gambino's got arrested. Ten guys got arrested. I guarantee people are going to cooperate. Once people start cooperating, you know, I don't think it's like it was back then with bodies turning up, killings. I think it's still there, but I think- Back then there was no CCTV or- Right, right, I think now, they put a big dent into it, you know. Do you think people lose respect for them because of how fucking unorganized it became with the snitching and the killing? How can you kill- I thought you couldn't kill a made man and I heard they shouldn't sell drugs, but then they all fucking sell. That's what I'm saying. And then they're saying, oh yeah, they didn't have women around them. They always had beautiful women around them. I mean, really, I'm telling you. Did they ever kill women? Not that I know of. The only one that I know that killed women was Tommy Patera, Tommy Karate. He chopped up the body, but not anybody that I knew. Because I had a man on who was in the Boston mafia, but he says, is it Whitey Bolger? Oh, Whitey Bolger, yeah, yeah, yeah. He killed a woman. He did? Yeah. Yeah, piece of shit. He's a fucking evil crime. Piece of shit, evil bastard. Yeah. Yeah, and then they boast about it. If you notice, I don't know if you've had on the, which or you will, men that have murdered, they talk, they boast about it. Like it's like a badge on them. Like it's. Same as men who go to prison. They don't even, they don't even have like remorse, like sorry for the families. Like the father that you took from the children or the mother that had to bury her son or the grandmother, the aunt, the uncle, the sister, the brother, they have no remorse. They're dead in their eyes. They don't need to think about it. Because they're all narcissistic psychopaths. They're all narcissistic. They don't want everybody to think that they were the guy that was out. But with each of them now, they must all be in their 70s and fucking 80s. Sammy's like 80. He's 79 years old. He's 80 years old. And he's still talking about these glory days. And if you look at them, they love it. They love talking about it. Like that's all they know. That's all they know. So how did they change? How did they develop? How do you know? I just think that a lot of them are frauds. Do you think any of them ever change being in that life? From what I've seen and to be honest with you, they make like their change, but it's always there. Like if you have to commit a murder, they'll do it. They're still capable of it. That's what I believe. That's what I've seen. Too far gone. Yeah. Yeah. Damage. Yeah. Damage. Like they could try to go the normal route, but the minute something comes their way, like I'll break his fucking head. I'll fucking kill him. I'll put a bullet in him. That's how they talk. And that I believe they'll do. But why they can do that fucking online? They're basically snitching themselves as well. But look at all government. All government will let them out as long as you give the government information. So if the government wants somebody else and you did all these murders, they're going to let you out. They're going to let you out. You do your five years. You get relocated. You get a new ID, new license, new social. Why is no one ever killed him? Sammy? Yeah. I think Sammy's in Arizona. He's like up there and I don't think people, but I think he doesn't come back. He doesn't come into New York. I mean, Michael Francis doesn't either. People say he is a big rat. People say he's been ratting for years. Who's the biggest rat in the mafia? I think the biggest rat they was known was Sammy, but I think also Greg Scoppa was ratting for years. And Whitey Bulger, whatever his name is, I didn't know him, but I know Sammy, like he opened up the doors, but then they say, okay, back in the day, you know, in the 20s and 30s, people ratted, but that's not in our era. What we're talking about now, what happened, you know, in this time frame, Sammy did it. Everybody knows, everybody knows Sammy did it. Why is this people support them though? Oh God, people love them. I don't know what it is. They just do. They love them, but how? Knowing that they killed, they ratted, they did everything you could possibly think of, but then these other, you know what I think about the people that love them? It's not women that follow them. It's other men. It's men that don't have the balls thinking that they could even, they idolize these kinds of men and they think like, oh, he killed like they idolize. I'd like to be like a Sammy Gravano, but yet if your wife tells you, shut up and go in the room, you'll shut up and go in the other room. That's the kind of men that follow him. Who's the ones who've done big sentences and stayed strong and never gave a name? Oh God, Mark Ryder, Gene Gotti, John Gotti, Johnny Coniglia, Anthony Rapino, all those guys in the same era, never cooperate. Could they have cooperated? Absolutely, absolutely. But they didn't. It wasn't, they weren't built like that. I've talked to Mark Ryder this year several times. I went up to Allenwood Federal Prison and sat with him one on one, like I'm looking at you and he says, I'm not built that way. There are guys in here that will never rat. They're not built that way. But yet Sammy will try to rationalize it. Oh yeah, they would. No, they won't, just because he wants to make people think that what he did wasn't that wrong. That's what I believe. Yeah. Where do you go forward for the future? Where do I go? Yeah. Um, where do I going forward? Just enjoying my life day by day. I take it day by day. I enjoy the babies every day, the grand babies. I love them. They all stay close to each other. Yes, yes, yes. We live close by. I'm there every day helping us. So I really enjoy that. I enjoy my children. I'm very family oriented. I'm very close to all my kids. And I live a good, clean, simple life today. I don't need anything big. I don't need all the flashy stuff. I think I'm just grateful for my health, my children's health, my grandchildren. I stay close to God. I'm very involved with my church, which I love, makes me feel good. It makes me, I've, I think I felt really good. I just did this mission with my church, which was an eight hour mission of working within. And then you, priests come from all over and then you could sit with the priest and you can share things that you never really wanted to share with anyone. And I think that really helped me to feel whole and to feel good and to feel like even after all the years I've been away from that life, I think I feel I'm in a good place today. I'm a kind person. I would never hurt someone deliberately. I do have that instinct in me that will never go away. If you come to attack me, I'm going to fight and I'm going to fight with everything I have. That's just there that I don't believe will ever go away. But that's if you poke me. So if you poke the tiger and you poke her, she's going to come back at you. But I'll come back in a more constructed diplomatic way, not how I did in the past. So I think that I've learned a lot in my life and I'd like to help other people to learn from that, other women especially. How do you sleep? Do you sleep well? Oh, God, yeah. Do you? Yeah. Yeah. But that's a good thing. A lot of people in that life because it's PTSD and that's where the stress is. No, I sleep really well. I do a lot of, I walk. Meditation. Well, I walk about five, seven miles a day. I do a lot of yoga. I do meditation. I pray every morning and at night. I go to church. Yeah. I sleep very well. I think I'm in a good place. I know I'm in a good place. For any girls that are watching, it's maybe in that shitty relationship. What advice would you have for them? For women that are in abusive relationship. Oh, God, you really, it's going to get worse. You have to really be honest with yourself and try to just develop who you are. I think not live through his identity. Develop your own identity. Develop your own identity and work on you to build your self-esteem because when you're in a relationship like that, you don't have a self-esteem. So if you could build yourself up because I believe everybody's good at something. If I can do it with a seventh grade education, other women can do it. Other women can get away. Everybody's good at something. You know, everyone is good at something. So I think it's to not be in denial, to just see it for what it is because it will get worse. It won't get better. It'll get worse. You know, some of those men who have that full control of the Stockholm syndrome as well with the threatened to kill you, kill your family. A lot of girls do struggle. I've had women on who are supposed to build that. They struggle. You've got to work on yourself. You've got to keep working on yourself. You have to keep making yourself stronger to know up here in your brain, get him out of your brain and put you back there. That's what that's about. What do you think life is? Life. I think life is about waking up, being the best person you could possibly be, giving back, being there for your family, being there for your community, being there for your church, and just being a good, law-abiding citizen and trying to give back, do good, and be an example of that. Yeah. So what's the plan? Is there any other books coming out? Anything more documentaries, anything more documentaries, films? Oh, I'm in the makings right now that there's not just one. There's several people that have gotten in touch with me to develop my story, to develop Andrea Giovino docu-series or scripted series, both. So I'm busy. I have a lot going on. You'll be hearing a lot more of Andrea Giovino. Yeah, good on you. She's not going away. Good on you. Fucking great, man. Love doesn't make money from the life you've clearly lived. That listen, I think you're a good person, man, you clearly get great storyteller as well. I don't think anybody would disagree with that. People watch us and they'll take a liking to you and a shiny people. Grown men are going to say shit and you've got to laugh. Man, it's fucking cringy shit. Somebody's wanting to make money and have a good life, but why do people have to say something negative? Exactly. Just go, you know what? I don't know the girl. She could have been. That was it. You don't need to... Everybody's shooting everybody down on us. Exactly. You shouldn't be having a judgment against someone that's trying to get out there and do the right thing. Especially against yourself, man, because you've got a fan here, Barry. So you're going to fucking respond. It's going to give them a bigger sore head than you, because a lot of people not say anything against them because of who they are. Oh, no, it's coming out. So when somebody does, you're going to get a lot of love and support for it. No, it's coming out this Friday and it's going to come out in a classy way. Yeah, you've got to present yourself. I'm classy and I am coming out in direct, but in a nice manner. Don't fuck with me that you don't know who I am. Of course you know who I am. Who are you kidding? Who are you kidding? Andrea, listen, would you like to finish up on anything else? No, it was lovely talking to you. Very easy, great. I do your show anytime. I love you. You're great. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, but just for anybody watching, how can people get in contact? Social media? So people, yes, for people that want to contact me, I am on Instagram, Andrea Giavino. My YouTube channel, Andrea Giavino. So if you just come, I usually post on Instagram when my YouTube channel will be coming out. So basically I'm out there and you'll be hearing a lot more of me. A lot of good things coming. Good on you. Listen, I look forward to seeing you do for the future. I wish you nothing but the best success and happiness. God bless you. Thank you. God bless you. Thank you.