 Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Paulic Murphy, you are all very welcome here. You might like, before we begin to turn off your mobile phones, it's my honor to present today the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Foreign Affairs of New Zealand, Winston Peters, who is here in Dublin for a very important occasion. From our point of view, he opened a resident embassy of New Zealand in Ireland in Dublin yesterday. He is going to speak to us today on small states, big ideas. If there is another small state in the world that we in Ireland identify with more than any other, perhaps it's New Zealand. It is at the Antipodes, from our point of view, but as opposed from the New Zealand point of view, we are at the Antipodes of New Zealand. But the position of small states in the world is one that we are greatly concerned with here and I think I can say that our concern is shared by our friends in New Zealand. The concern arises from what has been described by one commentator as the return of the jungle to international affairs. The return of the jungle means that big beasts are back on the scene and we small states have to figure out how to deal with that. And one of the conclusions that we here have drawn is that we need to work with other states that are concerned with this in order to preserve the rules-based multilateral order under the United Nations, which is very important for small states. In our case also, of course, membership of the European Union is extremely important in this connection. So minister, we look forward to hearing your views on small states, big ideas and thank you for coming. Rory Quinn, Patrick Murphy, former ministers Alan Dukes and Martin Mansay. Close? Manson. The Excellencies from the embassies of Mexico, Australia and Hungary. Alan McCarthy and New Zealand Ambassador for the last few weeks and for the inaugural position, Burgess. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for the invitation to be here this morning and for the chance to speak to you. Of the many things that New Zealand and Ireland have in common, one is that neither of us view our size as some sort of excuse to be a mere spectator to world events. We've always seen it as both our responsibility and indeed a necessity to fight for our fundamental values to create the kind of world that we want to live in. We are small island nations populated by proud peoples and despite our size we've never been afraid to speak up for ourselves and for what we believe in or dare I say to take the consequences of standing up to bigger countries. There's a well-worn adage, you know, you're either at the table or you're on the menu and we have entered a period of dangerous uncertainty in global affairs. The system underpinning our security and prosperity for the past 75 years is under unprecedented stress again. The values and norms on which this system rests, democracy, respect for human rights, urban societies and urban economies are under attack in a way not seen for generations. But when we voice those phrases, human rights, democracy, urban societies, all of a sudden they have an acuity of meaning which requires us to be more sincere in our expression of them and in our defence of them. The commitment of key players to the global rules-based system which has regulated trade and reduced conflict between states is now, sad to say, a matter of uncertainty and we're seeing efforts to reshape the world in ways that do not always support our interests or respect our values. For small states like New Zealand and Ireland who have much to lose from global instability and the abandonment of values, this is surely a real and present danger. It's a real and present danger which calls us all to lift our game, our level of commitment and sincerity of what we stand for. The old way of performing as politicians and, dare I say, as ambassadors and high commissioners won't do, there's an intensity required of us which is borne about by the emergencies in terms of international circumstances that we face. In short, we need to fight for our values and to assert our interests. It's not surprising then that both New Zealand and Ireland have made strategic decisions in the past year to expand our diplomatic engagement. For us, we're growing our presence across Europe. As you know yesterday, the first New Zealand Embassy in Ireland was officially opened, a milestone in our relationship with Ireland for our deeper engagement with the European Union membership and last Thursday in Stockholm we opened our New Zealand Embassy there. This investment comes at a time as Europe undergoes its largest geo-strategic shift in decades as the United Kingdom exits the European Union. As we work through the implications of this both for the region and for our own interest and as we deepen our cooperation with European partners on issues ranging from climate change to global security and as we launched negotiations toward a free trade agreement with the European Union, our commitment to European partners is stronger than ever. And for Ireland, we're pleased to see your government's decision to double its global footprint through the global Ireland strategy and the impressive decision to open 26 new posts globally over the coming years. It's clear that the Irish understand what's required now when others in terms of their economy and attempted frugality in terms of the cost of the public purse when it comes to the diplomatic footprint seem to think that somehow the alternative will do. You clearly don't think that, nor by the same token does, for example, Singapore, who have a similar approach to increasing their investment in that respect. We are particularly pleased with the focus on our region, the Asia Pacific, and we're delighted to see more of Ireland in our neighbourhood. You might ask why, as part of this, we have both decided to open embassies in our respective countries. Why have we chosen each other and why now? The obvious answer to this lies in our shared history and heritage. Put simply, we have kinship ties. One in six New Zealanders can claim Irish ancestry, but that, as a statement, doesn't do justice to the enormous contribution that Irish New Zealanders have made to building New Zealand and to the development of our national character and identity. This contribution dates back to the earliest days of European settlement. Irish settlers played a central role in the European settlement as leading politicians, jurists, and public servants. Some of our most illustrious Prime Ministers have claimed Irish ancestry, then to some of our least illustrious ones have also. Our first Premier was James Fitzgerald, who was from Irish background. John Bellance and Michael Joseph Savage, the architects of New Zealand's welfare state, and of course our current Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, claim Irish ancestry, as does our Governor-General, Dame Patsy Reedy. Many of our most successful business people have been of Irish stock. And Irish migrants in their descendants have been some of the most active and passionate advocates for social justice. And much as it pains New Zealanders to admit this, Irish DNA has made a considerable contribution to the success of our national team, the Orblacks. Dave Gallagher, captain of the famous original Orblac team that toured Ireland, Britain and France in 1905 and 1906, was from Ramelton County, Donegal. And many of our finest Orblacks as well have come from that background. Can I just say though that there's something else that's common about Ireland that New Zealanders share, and that is we don't like having class-based systems rammed down our throat. We actually think that Jack's as good as his master. That's what the character of New Zealand became a long way back, that that's the reason why we've gone all the way around the world to start a new type of society where someone with a bit of chance and effort could, with hope and sacrifice, go all the way to being the Prime Minister. There's something sort of slightly rebellious about the New Zealand character that is an obvious fit with the Irish, without being critical. Speaking of rugby, we haven't forgotten the brilliance of the Irish team, which went out with a better strategy in Chicago in 2016, made sure that we played the whole game in our half, and when we panicked, beat us. We're not going to make the same mistake on Saturday, but then again you've got a marvellous New Zealand coach and he might just outthink our guy, which we hope in the end won't matter because if you really want a New Zealand real love sport you need to have the best competitor possible to make the game worthwhile. As you all know we have another match, as you know, on the Saturday at what used to be in my time known as Lansdowne Road, but which has changed this name probably for commercial reasons, and we've always found it always better to open a diplomatic post when the host nation is in an optimistic frame of mind. It could be a whole lot harder if I was here on Monday trying to open this embassy. Many of our most famous and celebrated artists and musicians are also of Irish heritage, just one in particular for the young people here. This sensation is named Lord, whose surname for those of you who don't know is actually O'Connor, and that's sort of enough said I suppose. This story continues to evolve with each new wave of Irish immigrants and visitors to New Zealand, and much of the Christchurch rebuild after the disastrous earthquake in 2011 came from Irish tradespeople who called when we asked for their assistance, who answered the call and set out to rebuild the city, and in a way we're pleased that some of them didn't go home because we've got a huge building or housing crisis in New Zealand where the demand for power outstrips the supply and we're trying to get on top of it as fast as we possibly can. We have 10,000 visitors from Ireland every year, including more than 2,000 young people under a very popular working holiday scheme. All this is without even mentioning our love of Irish whiskey, or the more than 65 Irish pubs in New Zealand. Our decision to open Nemesie in Dublin is less about our shared past and is though about our desire to share a future. Our links of history mean we've an ease and comfort with each other that makes us natural partners both bilaterally and on the world stage. Our fierce sense of independence is combined with our innate sense of fairness and natural justice. We're both willing to stand up for ourselves while never losing our sense of humour and our ability to laugh at ourselves. That said, there are several areas where we hope New Zealand and Ireland will work more closely together. The foremost is climate change, where we are fast running out of time to avoid catastrophe. The very idea that we can go on with climactic dispolation and degradation is, you know, when you look at the number of scientists who support this idea is rather ridiculous. So we need to intensify our efforts to identify practical solutions. We're already doing this in the agricultural sector, where we are both members of the Global Research Alliance, which seeks to reduce agricultural emissions while enhancing production to feed a rapidly growing global population. We would also welcome Irish participation in New Zealand initiatives to promote uptake of climate-friendly agricultural technologies and practices and to facilitate action towards meeting our ambitions and our ambitious goals for achieving carbon neutrality. We have long been close partners and demand the complete elimination of nuclear weapons, including our shared membership of the new Agenda Coalition. We both have proud traditions as contributors to peace operations around the world, and New Zealand certainly tried to defend our values during our recent membership of the UN Security Council. And we're confident Ireland will do the same if elected, which we support in 21-22. And New Zealand is pleased to, as I say, reaffirm its support for Ireland's candidacy, and we stand ready to promote whatever help we can as you prepare for membership, including talking to our Pacific neighbors. Both New Zealand and Ireland are also committed to open and inclusive trade policies that provide opportunities for all of our citizens. We understand that serious difference when it comes to globalism and trade. Globalism and trade must be for every person in your country, not just the elite, not just the multinationals, but everybody from the top to the bottom. That's the trade we believe in, fair trade, free trade, not some sort of abuse of democracy while you promote elitist, narrow economic objectives. And we both understand the importance of global trading being a system of fair and transparent rules. We will need to fight for these rules in the year ahead, in the years ahead, in the WTO and elsewhere. And surely we understand that the WTO is under some serious threat at the present time. We need to hang on and ensure that we maintain it and its essentiality into the future. As we both seek to expand our global reach and influence, we will find no more natural friends and partners in our respective regions. And as both of our regions undergo significant change over the coming years, we are well placed to share experiences and learn from each other's trusted partners. Ireland is one of New Zealand's closest friends in Europe. We will rely on Ireland for advice and support as we strengthen our relations and practical cooperation with the European Union. We've been very grateful for your support for the launch of negotiations between ourselves and the EU on free trade. We hope we can now move quickly to conclude a comprehensive, high-quality agreement that serves as a model for progressive and inclusive trade policies. As the European Union evolves post-Brexit, we also seek Ireland's insights on the nature of these changes and what they might mean for Ireland as well as for third countries like New Zealand. In turn, New Zealand has much to share from its knowledge of East Asia. And over the past two decades, New Zealand has been fortunate to benefit from the most rapid expansion of the middle class in economic history occurring in our region. Rapid growth in East Asian economies has provided us with significant opportunities. We've worked hard to embed ourselves in the institutional architecture of Asia-Pacific, including through an extensive network of free trade agreements to ensure we're able to fully capitalize on this. And given our experience, we can tell you what some of the pitfalls for us have been. We were the first developed country in the world to sign a free trade agreement with China in 2008. We're also at the forefront of negotiating the now comprehensive and progressive agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership, which involves 11 Asia-Pacific countries with provision for others to join, representing a significant step towards bringing down barriers to trade across our region. New Zealand has also much to offer on the Pacific, a region that welcomes constructive partners like Ireland and the EU. The Pacific may seem distant, but it is strategically important, and increasingly it has become a contested space. We have seriously increased our focus and support for our Pacific neighborhood, and this strategy provides for strengthened cooperation with constructive, like-minded partners such as Ireland and the EU. We welcome the contribution you are making to the region, both in terms of development assistance and your commitment to shared values, and we want to remain close partners. Plus, it makes plain common sense. If we band together with our resources together, it will go a whole lot further, a whole lot more quickly, and we will get on top of the problems and difficulties we face. If we go about it separately, academically, humming and hawing as to whether it's a good idea or not, a normal opportunity will be lost, which will be most so much harder to roll back in the years to come. So we need to act collectively now. Finally, there's much more we can do together in terms of bilateral cooperation. In particular, there's considerable untapped potential in our trade and economic relations, as I've said. The links are currently fairly modest, with 400 million in two-way goods, and services traded annually. We can, must and should do a whole lot better than that. New Zealand also provides untapped potential for Irish businesses, seeking a foothold in Australasia and East Asia and Asia Pacific. We boast one of the best business environments in the world, having been consistently ranked number one in the world for ease of doing business by the World Bank, as well as second in annual prosperity and economic freedom indices. A number of New Zealand and Irish companies are already taking advantage of these chances, but as New Zealand reaches our natural limits of production in a number of sectors, we're looking for partners to enable us to meet demand in fast-growing global markets. There's much to be gained by New Zealand and Irish farmers working together, and there's much to be gained by pooling our knowledge and expertise in agri-tech, in a whole lot of areas as well. Given our isolation, New Zealanders have always been pioneers finding practical solutions to solve problems. It's an attitude to get stuck in and get the job done at the heart of many of our successful New Zealand businesses and technological innovations. You may be aware that now we even at this time have a thriving Kiwi company launching rockets into space called Rocket Lab, which has driven us as a government to launch a New Zealand space agency. In turn, Ireland's innovative creative and digital sector offers potential for collaboration and partnership. Westbourne IT have already set up operations in New Zealand after considering everywhere else in Asia Pacific. They chose New Zealand because of the ease of doing business and the close alignment of New Zealand and Irish values. We expect more companies will decide to follow their example. And this week, a delegation of Māori entrepreneurs. These are the indigenous people of this of New Zealand and investors, including a number representing the IT sector, are visiting Ireland in search of inspiration and partnership. And as an aside, can I just say that I am myself, half Māori and half Scottish. There's nobody perfect. Well, one half of you wants to get drunk and the other one doesn't want to pay for it. Can you keep that private, please? Another, and by the way, they left mainland China via Taiwan 5,000 years ago. DNA is irrefutable. Another area for current and future collaboration that's very clear to my and dear to my heart as Minister of Racing is the racing industry in which Ireland is a world leader. We went to Planaskura, Ireland's iconic and world-renowned race course yesterday. And we also were impressed by the development of the Irish National Stud, which we also saw yesterday. The success of New Zealand's world-class horse racing industry owes a great deal to Irish bloodstock and the contribution of Irish New Zealanders as leaders and administrators. And perhaps our most famous legend in the horse industry is Sir Patrick Hogan, whose passion for the thoroughbred is a legacy back home in Australasia and indeed around the world. Passed down to him by his Irish father, Tom Hogan. Sir Patrick Hogan had the wisdom and the presence of mind to pick a very unlikely champion that became known as Sir Tristan for breeding purposes. And the most difficult horse to handle was our most successful breeding sire and his offspring, Zabel, carries on that tradition. It's just some of the areas in which our people will benefit from in our governments taking a long overdue step of opening resident embassies. Can I say this with sincerity and personally? Because back home my view on Ireland has never been shared with the greatest degree of generality and broadness as it should have been in this sense. I came to Ireland in 1981 and I saw the beginnings of a great economic plan which utterly amazed me because the image of Ireland in our part of the world is of sometimes fractious people. But across the political divide was this agreement about where Ireland would go forward and in those dramatic years we saw Ireland become famous as the Celtic tiger and despite a recent blip if you go from there which I saw in 81 to there and there's a slight blip and you land then there that's a whole lot further higher than there and they had every explanation our islands in the EU was so Portugal so Spain so was the UK or that give some other allows excuse but in the end personally I was a huge admirer of the normal success story where you waltzed past us and although our populations are the same your economy is 110 billion dollars greater than ours boy have we got things to learn from you I'm saying that as a personal justification of my support for the starting of an embassy here which is hugely hugely overdue we can learn a lot and short from Ireland's brilliant story and today's global environment of uncertainty and instability it's never been more important than now for friends like us to work together thank you very much thank you very much minister New Zealand is not a mere spectator at world events neither is Ireland and as you laid out your view of the stage of the world and the problems facing the world it's fair to say that we are like-minded countries and there are many historic and cultural reasons for this which you have also set out so it's no accident as used to be said that we both decided to open embassies at more or less the same time you have set out a list of areas in which Ireland and New Zealand can cooperate to our mutual benefit I am sure that we in Ireland will be willing to cooperate with you as to the events of next Saturday I'm no expert but I am let's say fundamentally pessimistic and our only hope is that you haven't come here just to open an embassy but maybe also to poach our rugby coach thank you very much minister we now open the floor for questions or comments in asking a question or making a comment perhaps you would say who you are and what your affiliation is yes minister and deputy prime minister the modesty of the tone of your speech was inversely proportioned to the excellence of the content my name is Mark Coleman I'm from ibec and I had the privilege of a few years ago hosting a dinner for members of our organization with perhaps the most beloved New Zealander in Ireland that's Brent Pope and it was a couple of weeks after New Zealand had won the world cup again and we asked him I asked him from the chair what you know what insights can you give us on New Zealand's victory on the rugby pitch and he said well two things he said first of all we give all our players from all our schools equal opportunity to participate in the game and you made reference to the importance of not having a class system and it's more an insight than a comment I think if there's one reason why the European ideal is more popular in Ireland and globalism globalism is more popular in Ireland is because it'd like to think we've already taken your advice in trying to make the globalist project reach more areas of our society in terms of balancing and buffering against the negative shocks that do happen but the second advice that Brent Pope gave us was the New Zealand team always focus far harder on the second half of the game whereas the Irish team tended to get a bit complacent if they scored a few tries in the first half I think we've had an excellent couple of years in the end of recovery in the last couple of years but Brexit will certainly mark a halftime whistle and I hope that we can keep up the second half so now my question to you can you and I we are under Chatham House rules are we not oh we're not okay well then I'll keep it very very general can you comment at all and in terms of the geopolitical situation in Asia Pacific I'll keep it very general because I don't want to ask a specific question and related if you can please to trade tensions yeah before I do could I just say that I can recall watching a game in 1991 it's the closing eight and a team is playing at Lansdowne Road called Australia and Ireland is winning because I lose Ford got away from about 60 meters and scored this fantastic try and it's a closing minutes and Ireland has got Australia right near its own goal line and the Australia's got the ball up to the halfway line one line out against Ireland got it up to the five meter line out from the Irish goal and then they scored this incredible try that's what I remember most about though I read all the articles from the Irish newspapers in the days after that and if you want to see some literary talent you want to see the the explanation for this event right it's just incredible it's fantastic that sort of you realize here's a population same size as ours and the level of like a literary quality explaining a disaster no it's no bounce I was also sadly there the week later to see New Zealand play Australia where we got beaten at Lansdowne Road and it was rather horrifying really to think that that happened to us and we had end up playing against Scotland for the third place on the Wednesday next week but that's yesterday's story of the circumstance in our part of the world is that a country that Churchill once said to leave dormant like a sleeping dog for one day would wake has woken up some considerable time ago it is a one-party state that's the difference and the president has changed the constitutional rules around his continuance in that position um we face a country whose resolve and long-term range planning is something totally foreign to western minds and in those circumstances it makes our job so much more difficult combined also with that what I would say is an appalling naivety or boarding on arrogance of so many people in the political system surrounding them who think they understand what they're looking at with a greater respect they don't because they don't begin they don't begin with respect if you respect a country like that you will know that the the level of difficulty you're going to face but if you think somehow by some accident you are there long-term strategic planning equal then that mistake would be seriously uh one that little time it will cost us all that said there there's been a dramatic shift in our part of the world perceived perhaps more by us in politics than others but in the space of 15 or 20 months and it's huge japan has also gone from being apathetic to seriously stepping up we since from indonesia the biggest is islamic country in the world which is also democracy a concern to position themselves so is thailand but in a country like vietnam where you would think there would be a sort of a mutuality between themselves and china is showing for the unthemed time their thousand-year independence and desire to be so from china and dare I say it if you look really hard at north korea you may be looking at a very much misdescribed regime of a young man who can't surely hope to go the next 50 years like his father and when you look at that and I know how we have an aversion to nationalism but there's different ways of describing nationalism as opposed to what president macron said the other day in paris there's nothing wrong with nationalism if your desire is to lift every one of your people from the bottom to the top but rabid populism nationalism which has no other purpose than to just be that which the image and shape of which we've seen counter stands before that is to be criticized but in our part of the world we are hoping that various governments and across the political divide will have their eyes wide open and as quickly as possible if that happens then we can help by our influence and our competitiveness to better shape china's future and that's what I can say don't run a con and deputy prime minister a question to ask you basically you're referring back to I think you spent some time in economic ministries what big idea dominates and internal new zealand economic policy I asked that because about 30 years ago Roger Douglas gave a paper which was reprinted in one of the the institute of public administration's journal here but he gave the paper to the Mont Pelerin society which as we know is very influential in economic policy making in the states at the moment and also in Germany but not in France and we're part of the eurozone and we therefore face a clash of two basically fundamentally different ideas on let's say economic policy making internally so what big idea dominates in New Zealand economic policy making internally at the moment you've said it's free trade but internally what is it and that's a fascinating question because I just say that Roger Douglas to quote Shakespeare in 84 cried havoc and that means the dogs of inflation on our country where the overnight rate lending got past 1100 percent in more than three nights where the interest rate was 19.5 all of this was predicated on the basis that you're going to have three years of pain and now you're going to after that have three years of gain the very ideas pastures in the extreme now I looked at Ireland and I watched as best I could from the outside your development and the Irish economic experience which has been a dramatic success story has precursors in Singapore and in Taiwan here I sat and in Hong Kong as well because it actually accepts that there is a role for the government to intervene to direct an outcome if it's wisely positioned whereas we took the view back in July 84 that the government was the worst thing to have involved in the economy somehow the market was sorted out it's a very touching idea but we've never seen such an experiment tried anywhere in the world in 10 000 years of recorded history and being successful but I'm slightly biased right because I saw it at the very time and I call it the airbus economy airbus was a plane crash we had tragically where the whole plane was traveling with all these tourists and the autopilot and all the controls were beeping saying pull up pull up they didn't well the same thing was happening to our economy as well today in New Zealand it's the first since the 26th of October last year was the first attempt by a government to turn around the worst effects of rogeonomics the first genuine attempt to make a statement and confront the business world and say this is not working that after 33 years we've fallen down the OECD and you cannot mean to keep us there with the pretence that somehow this experiment unworking as it has been for 33 years is some now some are going to come right I made the contrast of island coming roaring past us because when I was young per capita we were number two in the world our minister of labor who handled the unemployment figures knew every unemployed person because there are only 29 not 1,000 or 100 just 29 so we were a great success story and then we shared it we were probably only democracy we're one of the greatest housing ownership ratios in the world where for 25 percent of your income you could pay the mortgage the insurance and the rates and the other 75 percent you could live on with the family look where we are now 50 60 percent weekly wage going into the families that are struggling and we're trying to turn that around so this is a coalition government where we've above all are realists and are setting out to change to a far more fair society but at the same time we are making deliberate interventions to boost our regional infrastructure to boost our added value in the regions to boost our production and to boost our exports because for a country like ours we the export or we die and we're going to go for broke to rebuild the earnings and added value capacity of New Zealand and get ourselves back to where we'd like to be and where we used to be one of the chosen countries of the world can I just say way back in 80 93s a long long time ago at the first time formation of party government happened a man called said and said that New Zealand is God's own but the devil's own mess we'll be still God's own and we inherit a bit of a mess but we want to fix it up thank you Malcolm Berners my name I work with the higher education authority and thank you minister for your contribution and commitment to the values of global cooperation and internationalization one area where we can certainly learn from New Zealand to where New Zealand has been particularly successful is in terms of the internationalization of education and as an export market I think international education is something like the fifth or sixth biggest export market now in New Zealand and the change has been dramatic in the last decade and a half it's something that we're trying to develop in Ireland at present what lessons do you think that we can learn from New Zealand's internationalization experience well the briefest way I can answer that is that if you go into this market there'll be a number in academia which will persuade the politicians to do that but you must ensure that they don't tarnish the country's image if you're an international market and you're taking international students you're to use the latin phrase you're a local apprentice you're there to look after their children in your country and treat them properly not for exploitation but to deliver them a world-class education whilst looking after them and never compromising your own educational standards my country sadly made the mistake of allowing that to happen and then to try and proper up we started to say well we'll give one and five residency so we'll keep the attractiveness not based on educational quality but based on a different package which was never part of the deal fortunately we've turned that around since the new government changed to try and strike back for excellence in delivery and maintain our standards so not doubting the educational paternity anyway but you must make sure that they don't compromise your nation's integrity Ireland's got a reputation for being world-class in education and as a young person coming here a long long time ago I saw that that your tragic export was your highly educated young people going somewhere else in the world the great change in Ireland has been your belt to turn that around and we also had the same thing happened to our country they were heading off everywhere but Sydney off offshore to UK and everywhere else we have to sort of keep them back home now and give them a better future but it's difficult good morning Prime Minister thank you I'm Matt Dempsey from the Farmers Journal and the National Study it was a great pleasure to have you out there the other day or yesterday I understand that you have imposed quite stringent new laws on the acquisition of property by overseas purchasers how does that square with your vocation to increased openness of your general economy and your approach to what we would agree with a liberal world trading order oh well now that's a fascinating question of the things that we are seeking to increase land is not one of them you're the great listen to us they always told us oh you can't take the land with you and I always wish that you used to say really go and look at Ireland because the domination of Ireland was from outsiders in terms of land ownership and everything else in this past history and so we're saying look you can lease land in New Zealand you can come and start this and that in fact if you come and you want to live in New Zealand you can buy a farm as big as you like tomorrow but you got to come and put your future all your sweat and your equity into the country we're not having parked up offshore ownership in here absentee ownership anymore and you want a house in New Zealand come and live in it don't buy 50 houses that I know some people have done in Auckland and become a landlord uh as some sort of um bolt hole in case the country of your domicile goes bad we want people putting their heart and soul into our country and we've used the experience of Ireland comes to land ownership as one of them you can buy a home in New Zealand you can buy any land you like in New Zealand people just require you to come and put your future into New Zealand however there are some exceptions if you've got an extraordinary extraordinary added value proposition we'll certainly look at that we'll look at it case by case but the days when you could walk in but not so much to buy your leave or get citizenship within three days because I'm jacked up political arrangement as somebody did those days are over Jildon who director of research at the institute you mentioned in your warm and wonderful speech a reference there to the New Zealand campaign for the seat at the UN security council and I just wanted to commend to you Jim Mitley who was your then ambassador uh who really raised the bar in terms of how to run an excellent campaign and followed by Jared from Bowman under the auspices of a half Fijian half Scottish Peter Thompson who was the PGA I wondered following on from Peter's campaign on the implementation of the SDGs how successful have you been in New Zealand in terms of adopting an all of government approach to the SDGs the Sustainable Development Goals and all of look I'm sorry I've noticed that these days their acronyms these days are so frequent that you have to explain to me what you mean by an SDG at the Sustainable Development Goals so you mentioned climate change I thought it was a form of voting like STV which you have here right you want to know where we're getting to there we have made it a serious objective we've set our plan to be carbon neutral in 2050 and we're going for broke on this because with the evolution of modern development modern science we think we can make it whilst at the same time endeavoring to get on and top of and handle our agricultural emissions and that's not going to be easy for us to do but we do think that there are scientific breakthroughs including a dietary provisioning for animals that could make a substantial difference even to the extent of one third how are we going well we have could we call it the nuclear issue of our age the climate climate change so to speak and and we've always believed and we luckily have three parties two in our government the other one's got a conference supply agreement with the other party but we believe that good environmentalism is good economics we're setting out to prove it and one of the reasons why we've opened in an embassy in Sweden is to re-engage with the Nordic or engage for the first time in the way we should have a long time ago with the Nordic economies who understand that you can both be green and have extractive industries that in fact extractive industries are critical for the green future that is they are so practical compared to some of the countries in the world where they are confused about that and if you go to the Nordic countries and look at what they've done it's actually stunning in terms of their success and we want to ensure that when we say that we are pure clean and green that those words are true Eamon Delaney former diplomat and commentator and author you didn't talk about the small advanced economies initiative which New Zealand formed and which Ireland is a member of I think the six or seven states many people talk about that briefly I love to talk about it but I don't enough about it okay can I ask you a supplementary sorry I used to be the treasurer of my country that was 21 years ago but now I think it's a newly developing group but when I was a young diplomat in the UN General Assembly the big thing was the parallel with Ireland and New Zealand was the bigger neighbour Australia in your case and Britain in ours and that was a very interesting dynamic between the two countries so maybe we talk about that briefly or well like I said in this context yeah but like I said in this context when I was a young boy New Zealand was way ahead of Australia our currency was much stronger our capital income was far greater our housing and unemployment everything was outstripped Australia and I noticed that that is the phenomenon you've achieved in modern times when it comes to the UK you are way ahead of the UK nearly every respect but when I was young it was a reverse there your island was seen as in a bit backward not developed and not doing as well as other economies and you've turned that around I'm not here to and trying to ingratiate myself with you it's a fact you've done it one of the things that concerns me is that whereas we are still capable of outperforming Australia the economic strategy we follow didn't mean that we have not been able to do so thus far but if we can rack up and we've got a better growth rate than them now we can rack up some decent growth performances over the next 10 15 years then we will do much better than we have done in the past do we have an inferior complex about Australia we never had it when we were young our currency was worth 130 to there one that's what it was when I was first going to Australia a long long time ago I'm not the most ancient guy in this room but it wasn't so long ago and I can't say much more than that you know it's never been a matter that's held back Singapore Singapore has been a staggering success story it's never held back Taiwan and yet in Taiwan would have the second highest population density to Bangladesh has no resources at all and the economic performance in that context has been staggering that's why we watched Ireland because the number of features of Ireland's economic development and its cross-party plan have ancient features about them thank you very much minister sorry Ron did you want to my name is Ron here I'm a former academic down in the memory of the Institute I was in your wonderful country for the first time possibly giving my age to last I just a couple of weeks ago and I was very very impressed indeed I must say now comparing Ireland with New Zealand Ireland is of course a member of the European Union which is very close your nearest neighbour is a thousand miles or more away does this make a significant difference to your development plans your aspirations you talked about yourself as part of a much wider much wider unit how realistic is it to use Ireland as any kind of model for development and economic development when we were taking ourselves in the late 30s 40s 50s and 60s to in the top three in the world we had massive geographic distance then it's just something you have to combat uh we uh we we really we are really realistic about that the serious feature though that makes that capable of being handled better now than those days was an understanding of what added value on top of the market uh exports look like where your product gets so much better outcome rather than bulk and where others are adding value so instead of selling milk we should be at the top of the infant formula business which is 45 to 50 billion internationally and then there are families that don't want milk infant formula they want goat milk I mean not dairy they want goat milk or some other type of milk we should be doing everything we can there and dare I say that's where Scandinavia is a standout record we have over five million cows they have 350,000 but if you were to look at the comparative added value of those two economies they're doing better than we are so we got to pick up our act and then a geographic distance will not be the tyranny that it can conceptually seem like thank you very much minister and thank you for the spirits in which you both presented your main presentation and in which you responded to the many questions and comments um when you set out the international agenda of New Zealand in terms of climate change and the particular agricultural aspect of climate change the complete abolition of nuclear weapons participation in peacekeeping operations around the world support for the united nations in the shape of active membership of the security council and globalization and free trade for everybody you could of course be talking about the international agenda of this country I do recall some 30 years ago New Zealand was regarded as in the same category as the Scandinavian countries and it is from the consideration of that I think that we have always considered New Zealand a like minded country just as we consider the Scandinavian countries like minded countries at this time when as we were saying earlier the rules based international multilateral order is under some threat it is good to hear a deputy prime minister and foreign minister of New Zealand come here and make such a whole hearted commitment to precisely this order so we thank you for coming we thank you for opening an embassy here and we wish our bilateral relations all the best for the future thank you