 to you from the world, you know, for in-depth 2022, we're focusing now on climate transition in the emerging markets. And when I woke up this morning, I realized it's a 45-minute discussion, and we are looking to address and impact one of the most critical conversations of our time. Not impossible. Anyway, we're going to keep it very, very simple, and we are going to really focus on the finance that we need to address the situation when it comes to climate finance across emerging markets and developing markets in order to ensure that the whole world can meet their objectives by agenda 2030, and then, of course, net zero by 2050. Again, we've got 45 minutes. We're having opening discussions before I introduce my esteemed panelists. Thank goodness they're here to help me solve this 45-minute equation for the world. But before we do that, it is my honor to introduce to you Mahmoud Mohaldin, who's the UN Special Envoy on Financing the 2030 Agenda and COP 27 High-Level Climate Action Champion. Dr. Mohedin, would you like to just set some context for us as we go into this high-powered discussion for the next 45 minutes? I'll give you four minutes, sir. All right, very generous. Thank you so much. Good morning to you all. Good afternoon, good evening, whatever you are around the world. I came here with good intentions not to be controversial. This is the intention, but let's see how it will end. Climate finance is and should be development finance. And we have been victims, not just in emerging markets and developing economies, of a reductionist approach to sustainability for it to mean only climate and climate change and for climate change to mean only mitigation and for mitigation to mean carbon and carbon pricing. I'm not undermining the importance of any of that, but I shouldn't really be ignoring the connection between the efforts that we should be doing in carbon, carbon pricing and energy and just energy transition to the development agenda. Without a holistic approach, we are missing a lot. Without a holistic approach, we cannot convince the poor who are getting poorer after crisis upon crisis, COVID, Ukraine now with food security challenges, financial challenges, access to all kinds of fuel and indeed matters related to food security because of shortage of fertilizers. So in order to convince the general public and the policy makers, even if you are specialized in energy or you are specialized in carbon, you need to have this holistic approach. And it's not difficult because at the end of the day, climate change is SDG 13 of the sustainable development goal that had been blessed by more than 190 countries back in 2015. Just operationalize that and we'll be in business. Second, Nigel and I, the champion for Glasgow, and beyond, we have been talking about pledges, claims, people much more articulate than me, taking the floor and the stage, saying how much they love the planet, how much they claim that they need to do good for it, but very little if implementation had happened since. I'm saying before Paris, during Paris, after Paris. So we don't need more pledges or claims, we need implementation in the field. Show us the money, show us the knowledge and we can in developing economies and emerging markets, we can provide pipeline of projects and the business environment that can support the projects. And when we're discovering new things, people talk about developing economies and emerging markets as if they haven't been hosting many successful high return operations around the developing economies and emerging world. Third point, regionalization. Some of the projects are going to be with a scale that will not really be feasible with some small economies. So regional approach is not just for the good spirit of partnership as DG17, but it makes sense when you are establishing such huge projects. So here, five round tables, five four, are going to be established in partnership with UN system, with the regional economic commissions, with GFans, those who have the 130 trillion plus and those who have the project pipeline that could really be subject to good matchmaking. Localization. This is new in the business of COPs for the first time ever. And of course I'm having Mrs. Pinoza with us. This is the first time and this will make you happy, I hope, happier. That bottom up approach who are going to be running a competition in Egypt, starting with villages, townships and cities and districts to select the best fitting companies who can establish themselves as green and smart at the same time. That will be bringing great deal of awareness to everyone. It's not going to be just for the elite and the experts who will be in Sharma Sheikh, but for everybody. Final point, finance. We have an issue with finance. 100 billion, good luck with that. We need that to be multiplied by a factor of five or 10, but that will not be sufficient. Private sector leveraged by this kind of finance is going to be the solution. Meanwhile, it is, I would say, criminal to ask countries to buy their energy with high commercial debts and returns. I said I was going to be strict with time. So the solutions is going to be either grants or concessional loans or investment that will bring know how and knowledge with them. Opportunities and their partnerships could be established and there are many good models in the field that we can build on them. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. So right. And now let me introduce to you my esteemed panel. I've got Patricia Espinosa. She is the executive secretary of the UN Framework Convention for Climate Change. We have Patty Padmanathan, who's vice chairman and chief executive officer of Aqua Power. We have minister Mamaloko Kubaie, who is minister of human settlements in South Africa and Arifan Tasrifu, who's minister of energy and mineral resources in Indonesia. Thank you very much. We've got a very big agenda to fulfill. And Patricia, let's start with you. I mean, this has been your life for many, many years. I go back to May 2016. You took on this position as executive secretary. How are you feeling as we are eight years away from 2030 and we have deficits all over the place, especially in the financing arena? Well, definitely we are still lagging behind. Climate change is outpacing us in a way that we didn't even imagine just a few years ago. And finance is no doubt one of the key issues that can and should be put on the table in order to make the difference. I say very frequently that this generation, the generation of decision makers now have the rare opportunity to change the course of the history of humanity. And this is a very, very important moment because it's changing the history towards a resilient, a world where everybody can thrive and have opportunities or a world where we will see much more destruction, loss of lives, loss of livelihoods, more poverty. Mahmoud was talking about the SDGs and yes, climate change is one of the SDGs. But at the same time, climate change is related to almost all of the SDGs. So there's no doubt that climate change is at the center of development. And so it has to be included when we try to define policies on transportation, on agriculture production, on in general land use. Patricia, you made a comment. I've been watching many, many of your engagements in public forums and you made a comment that there is a lot happening. So when we sit here and we have these discussions and we think it is, just talk, talk, talk. Actually no, there's a lot happening behind the scenes. Perhaps just a quick statement on that before I bring to Patty. Yes, there is a lot happening. And I think there are very, just amazing examples of human ingenuity and capacity to improve the situation. And even I would say there are some solutions that don't even require a lot of resources. But the truth is that we need to scale up and accelerate the deployment of those technologies, especially in energy in the transition towards the new and renewable energy, but in all of the fields. So the key obviously is the climate transition in emerging markets. Now, I would say that we can't have that conversation in isolation. In fact, we should have all of the presidents of the developed world in this room in terms of closing the financing gap. Patty, I come to you. We're looking at $150 billion going into emerging markets on an annual basis right now. Ladies and gentlemen, we need one trillion US dollars on an annual basis to close the financing gap. Patty, to you. Thank you. So that one trillion is there. It can be accessed. And let me start off by what you pointed out. A lot is happening. The challenge is it's happening very fast and we're not able to, even we who are involved with it are not really understanding and grasping the value of it. So just a quick sort of summary of it. Just in the last, about seven years ago, those of us, in fact, and in many cases, even now, but those of us in the developing world, emerging markets, whatever you want to call it, who have access to electricity, that electricity is really costing anything from 200 to $300 a megawatt hour. Just keep that number in mind. Just today, we are starting to deliver. So it's happening over the last few years. At $30, look at the difference when the sun is shining and when the wind is blowing. Now, please don't get tangled up. That's intermittent. We consume a lot of energy and we can do a lot when the sun is shining and when the wind is blowing. So when energy is at that very high price, there isn't a hell of a lot you can do other than just use it for survival. But when the energy is so low, you can create enormous multiplier effect. Exactly like in the case of mobile phones, that's why people are running around the world carrying mobile phones. Not because they're talking to friends, because they're creating value out of them. It is such a low cost. Energy has reached that level. We just need to understand that and stop talking about a risk premium. So dealing with the financing, so today, of that 150 billion, most of it, 80% of it is coming from IFIs, multilaterals. The equity part, the 20% is coming pretty much from the private sector. At a premium, we know, we accept that the cost of money going into a developing world is six times the cost of money that is used in the developed world. But it is the IFIs who are charging that six times because it is them who are providing bulk of the debt. So step one, the IFI, the multilaterals, need to bring that cost down and accept that they're in the development business. So Patty, I'm gonna pick up there because I think it's not just the risk premium of emerging markets. It is a risk premium that the world is facing. It doesn't matter if Europe goes into their own deals, new energy deals. If they do not address emerging markets, nothing is going to have traction in terms of climate change. That is the reality. Minister, goodbye. Let's bring you in here. You've seen firsthand right now. KwaZulu Natal is a province in South Africa at the moment being devastated by floods. In fact, just this weekend, we've had the next round. Climate change is with us and it is impacting everybody across the board. Minister, goodbye. Time is over now for frameworks. We've got all the frameworks. Fantastic from the likes of Patricia and Dr. Mohaldin, et cetera. How do we change the game and get the developed world to believe that this is our joint problem? Now, definitely, I think the first issue is both, I think the panelists as well, spoke about the need to understand that as we do just transition, it has to be inclusive. It has to bring everybody on board. If we are to talk about the financing, be clear upfront. I mean, the financing for COP26, very excited about it, but now we're doing a lot of work instead of starting to implement, understanding the conditions that follows, which derails the whole implementation of it. I think that's what Paris say. If it's upfront here to say, this is what we are getting, this is the condition of it, then there's not much work that needs to be done that we can move into the implementation. All emerging markets, many of the countries have done quantification. I mean, those who are here interested, I've got my DBSA, which is Development Bank of South Africa, who are here, released a book quantified how much we need. So we clear on what we need to do and how much we need. Therefore, it's very easy. It's not an issue that's what you're saying. It's not an issue that we still wanting to understand. We know what needs to be done, and we've got to do it. We know how much we need and where we need to put the resources. And therefore, the talk shop has to end and we have to get into actually, but it has to be collaborative efforts, both public, private, and civil society has to come on board so that all of us can ensure that we do not see the devastating that we are seeing. I mean, we get to bear the brand as emerging markets. As you say, we have a beautiful city that is currently being ravaged by the floods and many people being displaced. We bear in the brand of climate change as South Africa. So public, private partnership, but also, and I'm going to drum this over and over again, partnership between the developed and the emerging world. We are in this together. Minister Tasreef, from Indonesia's perspective, you have set very stringent objectives in meeting agenda 2030. Perhaps you can give us an indication of the traction that you're having there, sir. Well, we have quite a tight schedule in order to reduce our emission in the country. Our target is to reduce 400 million tons by 2030. We do prepare such kind of plan of action. How we are going to do that. So it needs such kind of big support again, like it was mentioned before. We need support of technology. We need also support of competitive finance. We prepare our roadmap up to 2016, where our target is to reduce the emission by 1.5 gigatons of equivalent. And again, to reach that, the money that will be required to support us is more than 1 trillion US dollar. We have a huge source of renewable green energy in the country. We need to build such kind of infrastructure in order to utilize them, to send from the source to the market. We want to make our industry green. Yeah, we want to make a big participation on emission reduction in the world. So we would like to collaborate with all parties, which have the technology, which have access to finance to work together with us to achieve the goal by 2060 or even faster than that. Minister Tasri, if you have the G20 presidential delegation arriving in Indonesia in October and then of course they go to India in 2023. Come October, what are you asking the G20? Well, in our G20 member itself, we have to finalize the target of every countries when they are going to reach the year of net zero emission. And that all among the G20 countries, we have to be clear about the programs, about the technology, about the finance. So we can share priorities, et cetera. You know, the G20, they share for 80, more than 80% of the emission in the world. When we talk about Indonesia, emission per capita is low, but we are producing for sales. Yeah, we are willing to reduce it. We do, we plan, we do in-house activity to reduce that. Yeah, as for the time being, for instance, we reduce the risk of forest firing. Yeah, we successfully reduce 80%. So that's why last year we reached the number of 80 million tons of CO2 that we can contribute to be reduced. And great, Minister Tasri, to see that the money being raised is being put to effect and certainly impacting climate transition. Patricia, I want to come back to you. We raised, as the world, 15 trillion US dollars for COVID-19 in emergency relief. Yes. It's just 15 trillion dollars. Click of a finger. We're saying now, and let me give this number to you another way, that we need to increase climate finance 600%, it's 590% on an annual basis to reach agenda 2030. We're not even talking about 2050. Let's just get to 2030. So again, I come back to climate finance and if you were able to make one decision right now, would it perhaps be to punish those that don't behave and to reward those that do? Because I can only see that as the solution here. Well, you know, the multilateral system is about cooperation. It's about really getting... No punishment. No punishment. It's about getting on the boat for the well-being of all and understanding that the well-being of one part of the puzzle is really the well-being of all of them. So I think what we really need to have as the ground value is cooperation and solidarity and in our own individual interest. And I think that is what needs to be understood before that we go away from the idea that supporting this transition, if we talk about energy, for example, supporting the transition means helping others. No, supporting the transition means we are investing in our own well-being. We are investing in a better future for all. Now, having said that, yes, definitely, finance is the, I would say, the critical factor. It's not the only factor. It's true. And by the way, let me just mention in many developing countries, capacity building is also one of the very critical issues. But finance is certainly a critical point. Finance is needed for that capacity building. Correct. And you are mentioning, yes, because of COVID, all this money was raised that went mainly to the bigger and the more the richer countries. Imagine what that meant for countries in our process where they saw that the pledge made already in 2009 in Copenhagen of raising, mobilizing 100 billion yearly was not coming together. And at the same time, there was just this enormous mobilization of resources that were not foreseen, that were not planned. So this is really a very critical issue. It is also a trust issue. It's an element that is necessary to build the necessary atmosphere to have developed and developing countries working together, having trust, seeing each other as equals and really working together, joining forces for a better world. And I see Patricia's collaboration is very much a part of your ethos in the United Nations. What about Carrot and Stick? Is it not time, Patty? Come on. I mean, I've been, this is my 10th year in Davos, having these discussions for a decade now and we're still at the same point. It's a different world today. That's the reason, right? I'm much, much more optimistic because as I said to you, at $35, we have really now brought the risk levels down. So I think to be very fair, we need the private sector and the multilaterals to understand that the risk is very, very low now, default risk and so on. So you shouldn't be charging so much for the money. We should be pushing the private sector. We should be pushing the private sector to put more money at risk than just that 20% equity so that it can get blended with that lower cost of financing from the multilaterals. But also, let's not forget, the governments also need to, we can't just walk into a country and start implementing projects. We need, what is it? These are big capital intensive investments that we've recovered over a very long period of time. So what is it that we need? We need TLC, not tender love and care, but transparency, longevity and certainty of policy, okay? We need clear policy signal and the government's giving that signal and maintaining that signal. And we need to make sure that the policy makers are aligned with regulators. So that- But that's a bit of a catch 22 because again, this is another topic when you talk about an enabling environment that we ask of the governments, we need a track record. Patty, we need a track record. We haven't got time for them to build track records right now. We don't need, at $35, I don't need the track record for Wagga Wagga land to give me that. All I need is them to invite me to allow me to come, open the door and say, you know, I'm not gonna tie you with red tape. I'm not gonna do this to you. Please. But where's the guarantee, Minister Kubai? Where's the guarantee that you're not gonna change the rules? You take this big capital injection as an emerging market play and it doesn't go to the right avenue. We know this all too well across the African continent. Look, I think one of the things that we have done in South Africa is one of our investors in one of our provinces in the Northern Cape where we have one of the mega plants in terms of renewable. But I think the other issue where he talks about transparency and sensitivity, what we have done for the energy project, for example, for our environmental assessment, impact assessment. We've developed what we call the rates. So in terms of, if you build within the zones that we have created, then we're reducing the time it takes for you to be able to apply for environmental impact assessment. So it reduces the red tape. We've paid attention more into those and we're starting to give certainty in the implementation of the projects. We're now paying attention into the regulator in terms of our NERSA way we're talking about application for NERSA. We've reduced that. We've increased it to just for clarity. On the application for environment, we used to have about 180 days. We've reduced that with more than 50%. Yeah, it's 90 days. I think that's the clap. Don't you think? Taking the red tape out of the situation. So we're paying attention to the red tape. We're paying attention to, like just making it easier in terms of processes. We learned over time as well because we had what we have the process of big windows in terms of energy. So when we did the first, the second, we took longer. Now we know at bit window six and very quicker, clear on what needs to be done and within the zone. You're going to echo that. This is working. Just not because South African ministers sitting next to me. I invite every developing country or emerging market to take a look at the renewable energy program of South Africa. Absolutely fantastic because it's structured and it is delivering inclusive. It involves communities within the zone of that project becoming shareholders even in that project. It is driving local content development. It is cutting red tape. It is making it much easier and it's attracted a hell of a lot of investment in. So, and it is delivering very competitively priced energy. So you can do it. It's not rocket science. As I keep saying, private sector is very, very good at doing most things, including following the rules if you set the rules right. And I just want to show you that this isn't actually a setup because I had a hand in the seating and I didn't know that Aquapower had this relationship with Minister Kubai. So, this is completely very circumstantial. He didn't know either. Minister Tassari, let's talk about this trust between the developed and the developing world again, bringing this back to the issue of we need the developed world to help finance climate transition in emerging markets. You're also invested in Indonesia, by the way. And I see why, Patty, you're sitting on that side in the central phase. There should be mutual benefit between all parties. But isn't mutual benefit saving the world, sir? I will say so. Yeah, at least majority of it. Yeah, so how come we can invite such a party to participate in the development of our country without a guarantee that they are getting a reasonable return? It is, about that. There is a need and demand. There should be much together. Patricia, we are racing towards COP 27. As I've already alluded to, G20 presidential delegation in Indonesia and October. COP 27 will be a pivotal moment for us as the world. And I think here we've got to go back to two and a half years ago when the COVID pandemic hit us. We have been given the opportunity to reset, recharge and change the way that we do things. Remember those pictures of not one single person in New York, not one single person in London, not one single person in Kenya, in Johannesburg. This is unprecedented. And it means we have to do something different. So COP 27, let's talk about this as we get to 15 minutes further to engage on this discussion, which again, I mean, this may be the last discussion I have as a moderator. And I really want to create some legacy for my children where they can say, well, my mother used to talk for a living, but at least she did something for climate change. So Patricia, COP 27, let's see what we can mobilize to COP 27. Look, COP 27, as you very rightly say, it's a pivotal moment. Why? Because in Glasgow, we managed to finalize all the rules for the implementation of the Paris Agreement. So in many ways, we have left behind the negotiation phase and we are starting now the implementation phase. Now, we are going to be meeting in Charmel Shake in a very complicated global environment. And we need to be very conscious about that because otherwise we will be unprepared, right? So we will be meeting in this very complicated environment. And yet there is no way that we can or leaders can go there and send the message to the world, to all the communities that are suffering from climate change that, well, this was not the right time to take action. We need to be able to show that there is progress towards full implementation. And as the minister was saying, we have the plans, we have all those nationally determined contributions. Yes, some of them can be improved. Many have not even been started in being implemented, but we have them. We have the big framework. We have all of that. So now it's the time where we need the investors to come. Yes, you are right. Also the governments to look at themselves and say, okay, what is it that I need to change in order to be able to attract these investments? We need the IFIs also to look at their own policies and their decision-making processes. And I mean, we really need to get everybody, the industry, by the way, also, in the different sectors of the economy. They are ready, the pieces are there, we need to put them together. Just maybe one comment about the island countries and the least developed countries that I think for them, we really need to work with a different mindset. And they deserve and they require also the support. And it is also their well-being that will impact the well-being of everybody around the world. Patricia, I think you make some very pertinent points there. And I want to pick up on the complex environment that we live in from a global perspective. Just last week, I hosted the African Development Bank joint meeting of finance ministers and agriculture ministers aimed at an emergency solution for the food crisis that is looming. Now, we don't know the impact of COVID-19 yet. It's too early to have any real indication of how COVID-19 has derailed climate finance. But as you say, a complex world, we've now got the food crisis. So how do we ensure that we don't get derailed with these short-term issues and really lose focus that this longer-term issue needs to be addressed in tandem? We cannot take money away from climate finance to deal with emergency situations. It needs to be done as a holistic solution, Patty. Yeah, well, look, I mean, you know, so 150 billion is going into the developing world for climate, we're spending trillions on. So we're not going to take money away, by the way. What I think we need to do is to continue to focus on showcasing what is really being done, what can be done, what the progress that is being made and continue to push the private sector to blend and multiply the amount of money that is already available out there. So today, the challenge, as I keep saying, is about the kind of lack of understanding of what is possible, what can be done, what is being done. And I think that's really what we need to continue to keep focusing on and start to really evangelize and showcase and go and do, okay? So, and we are, just before stepping up the conversation I just had, and we were both sharing our shared frustration. He's a minister, I'm from the private sector, I shared frustration of how things are slow, sorry, in his country, to kind of move on and get it implemented. That's the reality. But okay, we need to look past that. And I think we can, and I think there is the sense of urgency. Don't forget, and we talk too much, by the way, about renewable energy, renewable energy. Let's also not forget adaptation and everything else, which are desperately needed. Absolutely, we've only got 45 minutes though. Not enough. And only 10 left, actually. But coming back, let's not, so it is not correct to say that investment in clean energy is sort of coming down. So last year, 290 megawatts of new renewable energy capacity got installed in the world, fully expecting 320 megawatts, okay, this year. So it is- It's not coming down, but the rate at which it's going up, Patty, is reducing significantly. We're now at about 10% increase on annual basis. Much faster. Minister Kuba, I want to bring you to COP 27. As South Africa are going into COP 27, how are you going to make that forum count? What we need to do is to make the financing accessible and conditions favorable. Because unless we sort that out, it's not going to make us going anywhere. So we're seeing the commitment. We are hearing about the amount of money that is available. But are the conditions favorable? Is it something that we can work with as countries? Because that's what is becoming an impediment. The fact that we are talking about COP 27, we had COP 26, we had commitments. They've not been implemented. When you say make the conditions favorable, unpack that for me. Make the condition, for example, if you had to do grants, be clear in what amount you're putting on grants, what amount you're putting on loads, what amounts you're putting on- So that's the regulation framework. That's the regulation framework because, for example, and because it has to be within that country. For example, we had intention of utilizing the money that has been made available to us. It contradicts our conditions in the country, the laws of our country. So it's difficult. Minister of environment comes back and say, I've managed to get this Minister of Finance saying you can't, you know, because the conditions that you are carrying the money is not what we agree to. It's putting a parent to the state, it's putting the parent to the fiscal. And that's what is important in terms of the conversation because otherwise we talk about financing, we talk about, and therefore we leave conversation thinking that money is accessible, money is available. And it can't be money that is going to put countries, especially poor countries and developing countries to long-term debts. It's not sustainable. Minister Tasry, if we look at your portfolio as Minister of Resources and Energy in Indonesia and you've got to balance that with the Minister of Agriculture in Indonesia who now is facing this looming food crisis, how do you ensure that the spend remains equitable, that you keep focusing on climate finance, on energy, on renewables, as well as provide for emergency situations like the looming food crisis? Well, of course we should, first of all, I would like to make a clear up again. We are not frustrating. We both have to proceed with this. Yes, you are my partner and then we work together. We will support all the things to achieve the goal. Yeah. Glad we could have that bilateral meeting, right? Okay. Well, as Indonesia itself, that well, recently we have excess capacity of energy. Yeah, that this is the thing that we have to overcome. How can we reduce the fossil energy source and bring the renewable to come? This is the issues that Paddy mentioned earlier. And we have a program. How to make early retirement? There is an ETM process right now being carried on. Hopefully we can conclude within this year. It will show the collaboration, the support of financial institution to us in order to accelerate, to bring more contribution to reduce the emission. So if this thing happened, it might happen also to others. So I want to take a moment just to pull from the audience. And we've got Somaila Zabaru, who is here from Africa Finance Corporation. We talk about development finance institutions. I'm going to ask for that. Mike, please to be handed to Somaila. It's just on the table there. Thank you very much. And if we could get your thoughts, Somaila, on coming back, you know, seven minutes to close, coming back to mobilizing finance. It's been a discussion point you've heard Paddy say we need to have accessible financing at low rates. Can I get your input here, sir? Thank you very much. I think I would like to take us back to this real situation in Africa. You know, because we have, the real transition for us in Africa is really how to get more energy. Because right now we are at about 180 kilowatts per hour. You know, most parts of the world, 6,000, 12,000. You know, so that means that there is no emission per se. Especially if you consider the fact that certain African countries like Africa Republic is absorbing more than they emit. So the real path for us is how do we save the forest that we have in Africa? Because they are the carbon sinks of the world. How do we give basic Africans better alternatives than firewood for cooking? How do we finance natural gas, LPG, and other such mechanisms that will conserve the forest? The forests are already absorbing most of the carbon dioxide of the world. We know that emissions have no borders. So the African forests are already absorbing carbon. So we need to conserve those forests. The second thing we need to look at is Africa's population is growing. So as we grow, we need to look at renewable sources of energy. We need to look at solar, wind, hydro, to the extent possible. We also need to look at natural gas as well as the transition fuel. Like everybody else in the world is doing. But we need financing for that to come through. So for example, we used to get ECA financing for most natural gas projects, but we don't get that anymore. That goes to only OECD countries. So we need to look at that again and see how we can have more export credit financing for Africa. And to this point, the interest rate is just too high. It's just too high. We need to find a way of bringing it down, especially because we know the default rate is much lower than anticipated. But more importantly, how Africa can help in the energy transition is that we need to stop these ocean grain voyages that go take raw materials from Africa to Asia and Europe for processing and then bring back to Africa. That has to stop. Ocean grain voyages are the sixth highest emitter in the world today, and we need to reduce that. Then of course we need to build more resilient infrastructure, our infrastructure. I'm cognizant now that I'm almost into the close of our debate. I think you've given us a huge amount to think about as we go into final comments. And I want to bring it back to climate transition in emerging markets. Where we started, as I said, I really need to make this conversation count for my children and the next four minutes are in your hands. So, Patricia, let's talk to one of the points that you want to drive home and let's make this conversation for the developed world, for the years of the developed world, because we know that's where the money sits. We know that that money needs to be deployed into emerging markets and close the gap. I'll leave you with that stat one more time. We need to increase climate finance by 590% annually in emerging markets to achieve Agenda 2030. Patricia? Well, I think it's very clear and we have all the evidence that investing in this transition in the emerging markets, but in general in the developing world is a big business opportunity also for business and investors from the developed world. And I think this is not yet fully understood. Again, I mentioned just a moment ago the case of the islands and the case of the LDCs, which may need to be, we need to have a different treatment, but in general, and the evidence is there, so many better jobs are being created, so much more value is added, so much cheaper energy we are getting. So I would say that this is, to me, the big message I would like to get. Three minutes, one minute each, Patty. Right across the emerging markets, sun shines every day, even in the middle of nowhere, all the rural households, the fastest way to electrify, get electricity penetration, rooftop, mini grids, micro grids, the business models are there, the components are cheap enough now, huge multiply impact. So there's one thing, I think there are many more things, but if there's one thing that we want to target, that's one of the things that I would be pushing for in COP 27, and how to get multilateral financing at a virtue at a grant rate, supplemented by very low, properly priced private sector to at least multiply that by three times. Minister, goodbye. For me, to developing countries that we do not only have to be the consumers of technology, when we set localization targets, work with us to develop, because we would want to be the producers of the technology as a continent. Minister Khasrif? Yes, I think every party in the emerging countries, they have to utilize whatever they have in the energy and inform them how to use the clean energy. And then the government can be support while waiting the support from outside. So let's see what is the capability inside and then try to develop the understanding you have to educate the people how to use the clean energy for their home. Thank you very much, Minister Khasrif. Well, we have one minute to go. And this morning when I was waiting for the shuttle for the Congress center, I saw these two little girls. They must have been all of seven years old standing at the road crossing, the zebra crossing. They were holding hands and they were smiling. And I thought, you know what? That's the right place to end this discussion. Let's make it personal because let's use those two little girls that I saw this morning with smiles on their faces, skipping and hopping across the zebra crossing when the cars let them go through. Let's use them as representatives of all the children in the world. And let's mobilize the finance that we need as a starting point to close that gap. Let's get the developed world to work together with the emerging world to create a safer, sustainable world for all of our children and their children and their children. Thank you so much to my esteemed panel and thank you very much to our audience today. Thank you.