 Welcome once again to the breakfast on Plastivier Africa. On the 6th of November, the people of Anambra State will be going to the polling booth to decide who becomes the next governor of Anambra State right after Governor William O'Biano. One of the most interesting perspectives of all of this is not just about getting free and fair elections, voter inducement, or some of the things that we've been used to talking about, but mostly now, security, and how the people of Anambra will be able to fully exercise their rights to vote in a peaceful and secure environment. We're speaking this morning with the former director of the DSS, Mr Mike Ageofo, who's joining us. Good morning. Thanks for joining us, Mr Ageofo. Good morning, and thanks for having me. Great to have you on the program. One question that I have asked every time that we come up with Anambra before the conversation on the elections proper. One question I've always asked is, you know, the ability for us, for Nigeria and the security agencies to identify the persons that have been behind the chaos, security-wise, in the Southeast, do you think that we've done well enough in identifying these persons, first of all? Well, I think we have to, the security agencies have to opt their game, because this issue of coming up on Nongom is troubling and quite disturbing, because the issue is that the problem identified is half solved. Well, Mr Ageofo, it seems we're losing feed from you. I'm not sure what the challenge is, but I hope that we can quickly connect. And like you were saying, if we don't identify exactly what the problem is, then it might be difficult solving it. I think that's where it's an important place to start from, knowing exactly who's responsible for the chaos, security-wise, in Anambra state, and on the whole of the Southeast, including Imo, Anabia, Nenugu, and of course, Ebonia State, if you don't know exactly who is committing these crimes, these atrocities, then you may not be able to understand whether it is going to be a challenge with the elections or not. If you have also followed closely with the conversations concerning the elections in Anambra State, there's still, of course, the IPOV clamoring for everyone to boycott the elections. For everyone who is social media active, you must have also seen yesterday that Ifai Uba visited the shopping market here in Lagos. Which of the shopping malls? The one that has a lot of Ibo traders. Alaba, yes. So it was at the Alaba International Market yesterday. And the reception he got was, I'm sure, very far from what he expected. Besides, Joffo, welcome back, if you can hear us. Thank you. All right, welcome back. I only go ahead. Yes, so I have to say, I think it's important to identify this unknown government because there are claims and counterchecks. IPOV, on one side, said they are not involved in it. And the government, on the other side, has classified them as unknown government. So I think we must identify the people behind these criminality before they take a look for a solution. And like you said, there are still many groups operating within the Southeast. You have the IPOV, you have the unknown government, you have various court groups operating from this, you have the political groups also operating. So if there is a chaos that's not coming, and if chaos is not taking, the state or the region might even run into an anarchy. So what I think that we should do at this time is look at, in terms of an umbrella election, where people have argued that IPOV said they should not go to the election. And IPOV also has been mobilizing people not to get involved, like the seat at home order, which IPOV said they have suspended the seat at home order. Unless the day the leader is appearing on a court. But you can see that out of fear because of your known government, people don't go out. And that's exactly what's going to happen during the election. People will be afraid to come out. So I think the government need to react for the people mobilizing. I'm happy to say that the inspector general of police, was in Hanam right here today, and giving assurance, deploying all the security, mobilizing for them to maintain law and order. It's a worrying situation, I must say, very worrying. Okay, but with all of this going on, with all of the tension that's going on, in Hanam Borreste, especially in the South East, do you think that there's going to be an election? I mean, we just have a few more days before the 6th of November. Do you think there's going to be an election? Because I mean, a lot of persons are really concerned already. Some people are saying there's a tendency that we might not have that election. And whatever happens now might just be, you know, would definitely just be a replica. Might just be a replica of what would happen in 2023. So do you think there's going to be an election in Hanam Borreste? We are also concerned, and I repeat, there must be an election. Otherwise, there will be a constitutional lockdown. I believe that the market has the outcome of the election. The elections that are around, whether it's two people or three people that have votes, at least that's the mandate of the people to go beyond talking about the elites. The political leaders should be able to mobilize their people by going to maybe area churches, civil society organizations should be involved. Also, asking the people to come and why security, adequately deployed. And before then, I think we still have some time to identify the grown men, the unknown grown men. Because if there's an arrest, at least it will lead to some kind of elites, will get elites to identify the people. And the problem will be a little solved. But if you say there will be a election, I think we've had elections in 2014, 2020, the election was postponed, but it would eventually help. You saw what happened in Borreste, Zamfara. There are many states that elections are the most realistic and elections were held. So I don't see any justification postponing the election in Hanam Borreste. Absolutely. All right, Mr. Yajafal, one thing that you mentioned was the IGP, of course, reassuring the people of their safety and some of all of that. But I will quickly mention that it's not the first time we've heard of these statements reassuring persons of security by even the governors of their states. But it still hasn't worked on Mondays. Because you can tell that people still sit at home on Mondays even when governors reassured them that they're safe. And what does it feel like having an election in a seemingly militarized environment with the current military operation in the southeast and then the influx of these policemen and security agencies everywhere? Doesn't that feel very odd for an electoral process? Well, it, like I said, is very difficult. But we must all have to deal with that. Like I said, the political leaders, the politicians, the community leaders, traditional rulers should come up and mobilize the people. And I believe also that this is a political problem. The federal government on its part should engage the political leaders. Let us know who are the people behind the aggressiveness and possibly the dialogue. I think if we continue like this, 2023 also is going to be very, very difficult. But I think we should, as a matter of interest, government should be able to engage these agitators to meaningful dialogue and see how the problem can be resolved. I'm struggling, I'm not here. I remember in 2017, when I polled for Sprite, that I did one. That if I polled for Sprite, which the government did, the leaders would go underground. And it would become very difficult for people to know who is who. Now, we have gotten to that stage where people are now talking of unborn men. Because you know, in Nigeria, we always have all these people coming up with different languages to have a genetic, non-kinetic approaches to have a unborn man. Some even try just to say, unborn, no man. And so there's a major problem. And I think we should be able to, as I think, because it all bothers us on government. And that brings me to the issue of this last amendment of the electoral act on the transmission. I think if you put the bad politicians out of market and good people will come out to actually get involved in elective office. Because if you transmit through electronic means, the possibility of people going into hijacked ballot boxes will not be there. And it will give traders to our electoral process who have integrity in our electoral process. And besides, when a candidate emerges, you will know that the candidate is made through a crazy process and the votes of the people come in. So if you don't perform, why in politics? During the next election, of course, you will not be voted in. I'm not also mindful of the fact that the politicians will be out walking to see how this process will be manipulated. You'll recall that when they were carrying ballot boxes and I let them to use this feature of electoral voting, they now went and started buying votes. So they also look for ways to see how they can manipulate this process. But I think I like to do your opinion too. Okay, so apart from, you know, a safety, talking about having a peaceful election in a number of states, let's also look at the possibility of political apathy, which happens to be something that reigns supreme in our system. Now, with all that is going on, I mean the insecurity issues that are really going on in that region and also the fact that some persons also are still of the believe an opinion that yes, they should be given, you know, their own federation or, you know, they should be given their own republic. Do you see people coming out to participate in the elections? You know, apathy on the part of the electorate earlier was that there was a lot of votes not counted. That you just go and vote results, the first three votes and at the end of the day, you are asked to vote to challenge them. Now, you know the process, the legal process with the three votes and the conversal. Besides, I think the judiciary is also being manipulated. But what is happening now, especially in Anabra, is that people are afraid, apart from the party before, because votes were not counted, with the showdown from INEC, now that votes will come through the transmission of the electorate, the challenge we now have in Anabra is fear of people to come out. And it's the responsibility of the government. The federal government, the state government, whatever level to give the assurance to the people to come out and vote by providing a security for the electorates. You know, and that's one thing that I had asked before, you know, if a person who really wants to vote would feel encouraged to vote, seeing the amount of security personnel that would be scattered around Anabra state for just the electoral process, there's going to be the army, the NSCDC, the police, you know, on all sorts. And, you know, that doesn't make any person comfortable to go exercise their civic rights to vote. But Mr. Jaffer, you are from the southeast, so I want you to share your thoughts on those who have continued to preach the idea of boycotting elections. If I will buy yesterday at the Alaba International Market, took his campaign to the E-Boos in that market and he was met with a very, very bad response, you know, with a large crowd booing him, you know, and saying that NAMD can't use their leader and there will be no electorates in Anabra state and whatnot. So Mr. Jaffer, you are from the southeast, I want you to share your views on the idea of boycotting an election and how they have not been able to see that that affects them negatively and, you know, they don't get to win. Well, this is a point of correction. I'm not from the southeast, I'm from the south-south. Oh, okay, my apologies. I'm concerned about what is going on in the South East. Everywhere in Nigeria, once in Nigeria, there was one in the Shibu, Nigeria, but that reminds me of in the Jingu and one of the TV stations, when Zekome, honestly, now cannot say that Nigeria is already divided. We see what is responsible for this. And in fact, even the educators, who want to remain Nigerian, but the fact is that they perceive injustice in a putty of fairness or the part of distribution of offices, I think that's what is causing it. And I think once these are addressed, everybody, like, I give an example, you know, Encounter Subversion for instance, what government would normally be is to reduce areas of this content. You recall in 1979, following the debt of Abdulla in 1993, the annulment of June 20th, the subsequent debt of Emperor Abdulla, who were the acclaimed winner of the election. In the interest of peace, equity and justice, all the parties decided to field the candidates for the support to appease them. Now the not as happy as that is, the support that has happened is only equitable that the suggest would be given a chance, I shot at the president. And I believe that one matter is done, this administration would not be completely routed out, but we would go down because there would be some kind of, The agitation is mainly out of various accumulated greater processes. Take for instance, the issue of in the instance that you talked about yesterday, this is my mubah, if I mubah, to allow my people to go and campaign. The people are aggrieved and the youths, the youths are the future leaders. They form the bulk of the population. So what they believe is something to be done about, but I would rather advise that the youths, if given the chance, to also channel their energy towards mobilizing their people to vote about the governors. I think that's what we want to have the governor, all these things will come to an end. All right, and of course it's just a few weeks ahead. You know, what more would you expect from the traditional leadership? There's still Arnaz and Igbo, and of course the political leadership in the southeast. What more or what extra roles do you think they can still play in the time between now and the elections to ensure that people actually come out to vote and the elections are peaceful? There is time. I believe that the federal government interested in peace in the area should convey immediately, in meeting of the governors, the traditional rulers, the religious leaders, in the streets in Abuja, to appeal to them, to talk to their youths, and the youths to also, the people who are existing, maybe a non-government or wherever, they are also watching the television, they are listening to news. So once they meet it, they will see the real effort on part of government to solve this problem, and they don't come from the moon, even though we say they are non-government, they cannot operate in isolation of the people on ground. That's a well known fact, that you cannot operate in an environment that you are not very familiar with. I'm not saying nobody has been able to identify who is responsible, who is involved in all this, but the fact remains that whether they are non-government, they are dictators, wherever, they are people who are, they cannot operate even in their visitors, they cannot operate in none of their home. They are working in collaboration with the locals. So that's the tension. And once this is done, and this meeting is coming, religious leaders, political leaders, traditional leaders, you get them all together, but to this cause, how do we do about this election? Because it's critical, this election in Anambra, will determine what will happen in 2023. It's very key, very, very important. Apart from the process, the amendment of the law, I mean, this is just going to be a test for what is going to happen in 2023. On the security perspective, you know, you're from a director of the DSS, so I'm sure you understand how these things should play out. Let's also talk about your views on intelligence gathering and being able to, you know, immediately call some of all these little groups of militancy here and there, because some people have also said that the actors in some of these attacks on police facilities, you know, INEC buildings, attacks on vigilante and the likes that have led to loss of lives and all that may not necessarily even be IPOB members. It could be really the, you know, pockets of armed groups here and there in the southeast. And so, you know, show your thoughts on the importance of intelligence gathering that the DSS should have been able to pull out to ensure that these things are taken care of. Yeah, you see, that intelligence gathering is a trade and it's a professional thing. As I speak, I don't know what the point of intelligence, the SSR, and the police. And if you recall that two, three days ago, the convoy of the campaign rally of the governor of Alhambra was attacked. The campaign rally and some vehicles were banned on arms recovered from the SSR. And I believe that it's very, very important that the people is born with this emoji. And I also believe that the intelligence agency, the Special Criticism is the only trail of all this. And I believe that some arrests have been made, too, even before this, which some of them identified and have been profiled. You know, it's not something that you just rush with. It takes time and looking at what is going on. All right, so with all of this that's going on, because we're really out of time, but I'd like to share your thoughts on this. For the purpose of safety, don't you think it's high time Nigeria adopts the e-voting, pure electronic voting, because what we're doing is just introducing technology to different parts of our elections? Is it not time that we adopt the electronic voting where people can actually vote from the comforts of their homes? I completely agree with you. We are gradually about steadily making progress. With this electronic transmission, I think the next thing should be electronic voting, that you can stay at the comforts of your home and vote. And you have less job, less work for the secret agencies. If you have this electronic voting, would our non-government have? All right. And I think we, of course, once again had those network challenges. We've been speaking with the former director of the DSS, the Mike Higiofo. And of course, very interesting conversation concerning what happens on the 6th of November in Anambra State where the governorship election takes place. The people of Anambra said eager to come out and vote. Do they feel safe enough to vote? Will the complete militarization of the Southeast also be a hindrance to these people who want to exercise their civic duties? And these are, of course, some of the questions that must be answered. And like he said, it's important that the federal government, the state governments, and traditional leadership all create some sort of dialogue to ensure that conversations are had towards bringing peace to Anambra State and the rest of the Southeast. But that's what we'll be wrapping it up this morning. Thanks to Mike Higiofo for joining us. Of course, apologies for the network challenges. If you missed out on any of these conversations and you would like to catch up, remember where to find us. Simply at Plus TV Africa on Facebook and Instagram. Same with our YouTube handle at Plus TV Africa and Plus TV Africa Lifestyle. I am Osao Guy, wishing a beautiful day. And I am messy, but we do have a great day.