 this is Sonali. Thank you all for carving out some time for tending today's webinar on the episode 11 of the Business X Learning series, Invest, Scale and Value. Today's topic is on brand building, the defining factor of scaling up. To all the attendees out there, please type in any questions you might have in the Q&A section and we'll try to answer as many as possible at the end of the session. I would now like to welcome our speaker, Mr. Gaurav Mara, Chairman and Founder of the Franchise India Group. A very warm welcome to you, sir. Thank you Sonali and welcome friends and welcome to another edition. It's a 11th edition of a Business X platform. Business X that Sonali said is a platform part of Franchise India Group, but focuses on a lot of investment side. So a lot of startups are even scared up companies which are now looking to raise capital. They come to this platform and we help them to reach out to both angel funds, private equity, family offices and so on and also Business X has a big, you know, we are the largest network from business resale viewpoint. A lot of people who want to now look at exit of their businesses, they come and we value them. We have a special technology which is called BizEquity.com. You all can go on a BizEquity where you can value your business yourself. So these are two prominent things. So the purpose of these webinars is really to talk about the companies which we really work with. We work with a lot of these what I call small to mid-sized businesses and small to mid-sized businesses. We are talking about three things every time. One is obviously invest. Second is scale. How do you really scale and how do you really build value in a business? They're very interconnected from perspective. So we touch on topics which are subject to investors, people when they're looking to invest into early stage companies, what they should look at. We also talk about companies which are now looking to grow their businesses, what are the challenges they're going to talk about it and more importantly, I really love to talk to a lot of fellow entrepreneurs and business owners because they don't understand value building. You know, how do you build value in the businesses and we get a lot of companies and reaching out to us and we look at the businesses and the businesses doesn't have inherent value and one of the areas which we will talk about next say 25 odd minutes is brand. And I will give you some perspective. One I'll give you perspective which I covered in my last edition is really growing and versus scaling. Growing is a very conventional old school of growing your organization, which means in terms of your better network, better distribution, better top line and things of that nature. But this is classic growing of companies were proposed, you know, in the manner where you proportionate, you also grow your resources, which means that I would have to have more, you know, offices being deployed, more people being deployed very clearly every dollar you get, you have additional investment to be done to get that additional dollar. But scaling up companies, you know, companies with scale up actually don't do in the same proportion. With a very small investment, you can multiply multiple times. And this is why technology companies are much more valued because they continue to multiply and look at companies like which are most valuable companies. They are not even creating content. People are creating content for them like Facebook, Google, everybody is creating a content for them. Everybody has become and they're not paid for it. They spend more on it to create content for them. These companies will continue to go and multiply. So companies have to really see through that how you design a company, your business model, re-engineer your business model, that you can shift your mindset from being just growing to scaling. Now, another area which is for scaling companies, which I have realized lately, especially this COVID period and other things happening around, we're getting a fantastic businesses which are coming to us. These are great businesses, great structure, but they lack brand. They have no brand. You know, they very need to offering and I'll give you some perspective on this. I get pretty much three types of companies which are coming to us at this moment. One, I see great product, great service, but no brand. I mean, obviously there is a brand, but there is no recall value. People don't really consume them because they were brand. I feel that these companies are in huge danger, huge, huge danger because when this all is over, they might have no customer left, right? Or somebody would create equal competitive product available for them. Even if they were having a big ride pre-COVID scenario from their product viewpoint, that differentiation, if there is a still a window, they still can go out and create some kind of a brand equity, but if there is no window for you to really have a competitive product coming in, then it will be a big danger for you. Then the second companies are essentially people who have built the brand, but maybe the business is still at this stage because of the reasons of COVID and other things is not there at the same level. I think they would be born much faster. They would be born much faster and they would be able to consolidate their position provided they have other strategies of their business in mind. Brand would take care of a lot of other issues from them. Like for example, let's talk about Oyo. Great brand, very strong work Ritesh Agarwal has done in terms of building the brand equity, very strong brand equity, but the business has struggled. Business is not struggled because of COVID, but business has struggled for the last one year itself. But I feel that he has still a big, but bigger position to really rebound the business when the things start getting normal. He can extend the brand to many other things which can be probably fit into the whole value of the brand and so on and so forth. And then there are third side of companies which I'm seeing which are actually building the brand in this period. These are great organizations because these companies would really, to me, would be the next big opportunities. The opportunities which have been built in these times, the brands which are built in these times are going to be with people for a very long period. So you have to really see where you fit in and how you really want to shift that. So building a brand is very important and building a brand which has two major factors to me. How do you really set the value? How valuable the brand is to the consumer? How valuable it is? And second is how much sustainability he carries. So these two are very important. Sometimes you create a good valuable brand, but sustainability is missing. Now these times, I think we both have to marry these two things and then only the brands would be in that thing. Like for example, the electric car, electric business Tesla is a great story of these two things. It's a sustainable technology, sustainable ecosystem. While the business is still very small, the business is still not penetrated and how these companies become more valuable than even Teotas and the likes of them which have the largest distribution available, the largest brand equity, largest consumer base, everything is there. But then look at the company's valuation of Tesla because of sustainability. Sustainability, their investment towards sustainability, their investment towards technology which is next 30 years, 40 years, 50 years of future technology, while their offering is still not reached everywhere. But clearly the investors are liking this story better. And this is strong answers which we are getting these days that how do you really demonstrate a strong sustainability of your business or your brand for next 10, 15, 20 years, it can be through thriving technologies and so on for like even Mahendra Modi's statement yesterday is all about the creativity and thinking, critical thinking and how do you really able to do this piece? And especially in this technology driven world, I think the challenges that things have been now becoming very, very scattered and very fragmented. You need to have a lot of shared values which should come in. You have to build your personality of the brand, how do you build and I think, and you need to also go deeper in fulfilling the need of the customer, much deeper than earlier it used to be. So how do you really bring the shared value? How do you build the strong personality of your brand and how do you go and fulfill your deeper need of the brand? It also, I mean, end of the day is all old school, what it stands for, what would it customer buy? Why would he buy? What is the purchase decision? What is the purchase trigger? All that is important but now in these times particularly, we need to really see that what is the shared value? What is the value, shared value which we brand really reflects? What is this personality and what is the deeper need which we are going to fulfill with the consumer? Now a couple of things which are, I would say that before I have even given tips on in terms of how you should really invest into your brand and different products would have different brand strategy, but things are which are very important for one to understand what is sometime lacking in the companies which we are getting. Some companies come to us which have a great product strategy, as I said, but no brand. Now the danger I see in this business is that they have a good product which is currently compelling and has a good wave and good run. Say for example, you were selling something on Amazon. Now you're selling everything on Amazon, you have a demand side like these days people have become innovative and somebody was selling PPE kits which was two months, three months back, we were almost having everybody got into disinfection and things that. So to me these are all good stories because they clearly saw the wave and they want to drive the wave but they have no brand. So eventually as then when competition would trigger them, business would product would become commoditized, they would all vanish, they would all vanish. So a lot of these companies which come to us which have a very many two kind of a product, maybe they've got the wave right but because they've not built the brand, they will not stay in the business, that's for sure. Even companies which have currently a monopoly as a product, you know, you have got something which you openly got and people are consuming from you and you still not built the brand, it's actually a shame because if you got something like that, that's an opportunity for you to quickly build your brand. If you not built the brand, then you're waiting for somebody to match your product and if start matching your product as it did get matched, then your relevance would become lower and it'll be difficult for you to get new customers in and so this is a very short window which people have when their product is very compelling and it's been in the demand in the market and quickly they shift also equally focus on building the brand and staying what you value, what you believe on. So that would become a very important part. Second is a lack of alignment in your organization itself. You know, people get very clearly driven from functional roles but they don't have a strong alignment as a company for your brand, what the brand stands for and every single member of your company has to stand for the values of the brand and unless little that alignment comes in and sometimes alignment is totally broken, totally broken from a founder, it's a very different perception to people who are in the market has a very different perception and especially when you run businesses which have, you know, a lot of, you know, people that are different peers of functionality bringing in some kind of consistency is very difficult. So if you're running a business which is like advertising agency, very easy to really spread the culture. So very clearly same kind of age group of people, same kind of structure, but when you run an industrial organization, you have one way blue collared workers, one way you have people sitting with a little bit of management backgrounds. So different kind of a class people. So how do you really integrate a brand culture? And these are Japanese companies have done it phenomenon. If you go to Japanese factories, you will see the CEO from a worker down the line having a same kind of a culture and behavior. So they, they institute this. Indian companies are disconnected, they are broken. This is very clearly broken what large part of the organization, 80% of the organization don't do it, especially in the industrial side of organizations, the culture and the brand is absolutely broken. Then another point, which is very important is that poor and inconsistent decision making, you know, these days, especially this is happening, a lot of people are taking a lot of decisions very fast and these decisions sometimes don't go with the brand. You know, some people have changed the product strategy, some have done something else, but your brand says something else, you know, brand is talking very different than you were trying to do something else. And that's something which I personally feel is not good. In a short term, it can really maybe benefit you from some cash flows viewpoint, but in a long term, it will have a bigger impact. So you need to have a strong and long term decision making rather than short term decision making. Unless and until there is a, there is a immediate opportunity or something which you don't really cap, staying within the framework of the brand, then it is fine. But I feel that particularly these times, these starting times, a poor and inconsistent decision making can spoil your organization. That's very, very important. Competitive vulnerability in terms of how your competition is behaving and how competition is going to do that, how is the cluster building up, how you're differentiating yourself from there. That's also very important point. As a brand, we need to really see that what we are, our set of consumer as engaged with us, we're not diluting the whole impact, we're not just going in the same clutter or clear landscape, which we have to define that what is our landscape, what is the competition doing, but not just try to do or repeat what competition doing, find your own place, find your own structure. That's very important. And lastly, which is, which also we are seeing these days is a lot of desperate communication offerings. People are discounting too much in the market or they would running some offers which are, which to me sometimes it doesn't make a financial sense. And this has happened in one of the industries which we closely worked with. And I was saying this for last two and a half years that they're killing themselves on the field. So the food business particularly food business in last two years, almost everybody started losing money. Why they started losing money? Because of this, the over discounted went into the market. Everybody was trying to do this one plus one three and things of that nature. And it started with some of the invested companies. I would say the companies like Faso's and likes of them, while they have used the investor money big time and even Burger King and even other companies, they have used a lot of investor money. They have burned a lot of investor money. I have no shame to do that. The huge amount of money has been burned. But they also killed a lot of other players in the market. Because I don't see any sense of Burger King. Anybody even Burger King can give me any form of advice and say how they would sell a 45 rupees or a 50 rupees one plus one burger free, one plus one burger and as an offer in a 50 rupees. Now this is being extremely desperate and they are doing it not in this COVID time. They were doing it before that. I don't know who are they going to place that? What kind of revenues they were trying to drive? Who are they trying to handle the competition? But eventually they would have burned their own balance sheet. The entire balance sheet would have burned. But when companies like this of this nature do something like that, they actually kill a lot of other people in the market. Not that they would do benefit to themselves because they have spoiled the whole mindset of a customer itself because customers start expecting a 50 rupees one burger plus one burger coming to them. That's to me is ridiculous ideas and these were done by a lot of companies who wanted to unridiculously scale themselves. In their scaling, they not only damage themselves, but they damage the entire industry. To me, it would take a lot of long time where people start realizing that the good quality product or good one thing would have to be paid on that. Nobody was expecting Burger King to do that, but they did it. And we saw 20, 25 years of McDonald's surviving in the market and they never did this kind of deals. They never came up in these kind of, they did one or two times in past when they've drawn the veggie burger, they wanted to really put this and that thing. They did some trials and they pushed the price back to the normal because it was very difficult to take it back. Same thing in one time, Dominos did when they brought their 50 rupees pizza and they had to very big difficulty to bring the price back. And I think maybe the same learnings didn't come to companies of that nature and they started disturbing their own brand itself. So these are five mistakes which you can do. One, don't just put your all energy on the product side, parallely build your brand. Second, get your alignment with the organization. Third, don't take poor and inconsistent decision making. Fourth, understand your competition, see how vulnerable that situation is. Fourth, don't take desperate communications and offerings out. You actually create a lot of disrespect for your own brand if you do a lot of desperate offerings and so on. So you need to really work in terms of what I call the intentional way of designing the brand. You have to be very intentional about that. It should be expressed with a lot of consistency. You need to be also really see that there are two things which should match your personality of the brand and the values you really bring. You need to blend these two things. How do you really blend the personality and how do you really impart values which the brand stands for? If you are able to do that, then I think there is a great opportunity for you to build the brand. Now let's go into even more deeper in terms of what is happening at this stage from our changing consumer priorities. Consumer is certainly, when it started, a lot of people were asking me that what would happen. So my opinion was different. I'm honest about it because I used to say that nothing is going to change in two to three months. It's just a pause and no behavioral changes would come. We will start coming back to things that are what I call normal and now because when it's all dragged a little too much, it's now gone to about six months and we don't know if it is ending in the next three to four months. I think some permanent changes would come in the consumer side. A lot of permanent changes would start coming in. So obviously, usage of technology is one set of estimates but a lot of other changes and some changes were already there but it's become even more stronger now. Like for example, opinions. Earlier we used to buy things by our own choices or while people you know around and things of that nature but now you're taking opinions with people you don't know. So a lot of opinions are set in the market, very fast opinions are set in the market and very fast people react on that. So in that sense, I feel that this is not the greatest time for organizations because they don't get even a breather time. You suddenly somebody can damage your brand in a big way just because the whole opinion making is becoming a way of life. People are just making opinions. Look at what is happening around us in this media space and things of that. A lot of people who don't know the subject or understand subject but they would make opinion on it. So this is now a way of life. People make opinions very very fast and that's something which is just way of life for you and how do you really one build your brand on that? You can build a brand also. This is a very unique situation where you people are building brands on setting these opinions in their favor. And sometimes you can destroy the brand because sometimes you're not able to manage that. This is very very difficult situation especially for established brands because established brands become more vulnerable. They're more vulnerable. They more have ability to people to pull down them and things of that but for a lot of new brands they can use this as an opportunity. They can use this as an opportunity to build their own brand equity because they can actually talk through consumers. So not talk to consumers but talk to through consumers. That's very big value. A lot of marketing also has become very I would say more scientific now. The whole brand building is now driven by tools and techniques and things of that nature versus a lot of old school base of building brand and so on which is once and good because it's very due to you do yourself kind of a market which is becoming. And you also have to really think through that. I mean I would say at this stage even brand building you should not go all over. This is one of the areas which people do mistake. They try to go all over. This is a good time. This is a great time where a lot of medias are available. A lot of other things are available. A lot of collaboration is available but you can also do that. For example I just advised one of my companies and so they were running a business of laundry chain in India largest laundry chain and we wanted to really build even more brand at this stage what bigger capability and things that reach out customer create more value for them and so what we did is we approached to a company called FedEx. Now FedEx is the world's number one logistic and delivery company and said look you're setting up shops of FedEx. Don't set up with us collaborate with us and every Euclain shop can also have FedEx or every Euclain can tomorrow have the Amazon also around that. So what it does is it gives much bigger value to Euclain. It gives obviously distribution to FedEx because FedEx would get into 75 art cities. So these kind of brand alignments I think creates much bigger value at this moment. So at this stage this is a time of collaboration. One has to really think through what kind of collaborations you can do with your brand. How can you really I think you can drop off with other brands which in a positive sense but what value you bring to that? What value you would be able to bring to these companies that would create a much more significant difference in the way it is needs to be approved. So a lot of collaborative time has now come in. Now let's look at obviously I've talked about there is a old school of building a brand and there is an absolutely new school of branding the brands but I'll give you some statistics. Another big statistics which is very important is that significantly changed in people's mind that people are thinking that social media particularly or social connectivity is now up to 91% where people feel that it impacts and connects world. So 91%. So it's really gone to the top. It cannot be bigger than that and 64% of customers feel that they can be connected by the brand through obviously digital and so on and 70% of consumers feel more connected to the brands with their CEOs being active on the social media. It can go wrong also in like in MI's case it was a classic example. He was a very popular social media as a CEO available in the market. Very big following. Everything going to undating but when things are not right it can backfire on you but large part of organizations are reflected to their CEOs or founders or people being connected in the media themselves. They're available themselves. So they're pretty much are available to really launch their products launch this entire thing. So this all is changed. People are looking more people because social is all about people. So people want to really connect with people rather than organizations talking to them. So they don't want to really see any kind of communication. They want to really see hear people talking about it. So a lot of your organizational key people should come in the front and that also is a big way of building a brand. Another thing is you need to really find a connection through intention. How do you connect with people? It has to have a strong intention. What do you really want from them? What are you looking from them? Stand for something. Don't just communicate but you have to stand for something which is very important. Another area which is very important is the culture and marketing are deep rooted together. You cannot separate them. So whatever you communicate, whatever you say to build your brand when you start your marketing, it also has to be connected with your culture what you really stand for. And last which is what I call how and more approach. How versus more approach which means it's not really but how to approach. It's about more to approach. It's not about spreading more. It's about how to approach. What is the way you really want to approach your customers, clients, what do you want to communicate? What do you want to stand for? This will all make sure that how your brand is recalled in the market. So if I have to summarize this situation for scale up, I think at this stage brand would become a very very strong strategy. Whatever product you are in, it's very critical for you to understand that if you're just relying on the product and you're just thinking that you will only last because you had a strong value proposition on your product side would not take you through. Somebody would become your competition soon. Somebody would match your product or take it even higher. Somebody would have even ability to give you better, so to say, price and then you will not be able to stay in the market. So it's quickly you need to really shift focus and say, while I'll continue to deliver my product or the service in the market, but let me also concentrate and build a sustainable and a valuable brand in the market. So valuable and being sustainable, these are two important part of the brand. So over to you, Sonali, if you have any questions for me, we have another two, three minutes left. Thank you so much, Kaurab sir, for another wonderful session and for sharing your insights. We do have a few questions lined up with us. I'll just take them one by one. So the first question is by Mr. Salik Faraz. He says, please give three key strategical recommendations for brand building in fresh fruits B2C segment. So three strategic recommendations in fresh food, a B2C segment, right? So I've done just now a project for B2C fresh fruit segment. Actually, as you used to see in locally, there was a, you know, the fruit doesn't come like what we get in India, you know, we get the full fruit, but in other countries in Europe, particularly you get cut fruits and nicely packaged so people can directly consume. So it's a very clumsy exercise if they want to take fruits to our office or take to any other place or at your workplaces, which people want to do. So there are two concerns for you. One, you, how do you really cut the fruit and put this into, I think it's one time consuming clumsy bulky to do that. So, and the cut food, the problem is that it just doesn't have a shelf life. So there's not technologies available, which can give you a not humanly touched product. It can be still be packaged, nice boxes, not touched by a human. So it's safe, very, very safe to consume. And it also gets you shelf life of three days. The same thing you can do. So I feel that when you're doing a business like commodity, you know, only thing which would change is your experiential value. You cannot make Apple cheaper than what is available in the market. Apple would be Apple, it will be same price everywhere single. You would obviously differentiate the little bit of quality and it's end of the commodity. It will play that. The only thing which would change is experiential. What is the last mile experience difference you would be able to create? And if you are able to make and work only on that part, the rest forget about this. This is a very good question. Actually, if you just work on the last mile experiential and product can keep changing, evolving, that's okay. But if that is done, then there is a bigger opportunity for you. Right. The next question is what kinds of brand building process should be on for companies started during the pandemic and how brand building can change after the pandemic or this economical slump? As I said, I mean, I clearly see that three types of companies in the market. One had a offering because the market was growing, everybody was selling. So I was also selling, but I had no brand equity. I feel that these companies are in danger. They're in danger because when everything is going, everybody can sell everything. Right. So this is the nature of that. So if you are producing something like, say, I know a company in Jaipur, which makes this cookies for women. Right. And they would do about a four million, five million kind of a production because they were the, you know, put it on the marketplace and they would just start selling. So these companies, while they can be still a manufacturing company, that's fine. But when things are going good, any player like that would create a maximum value because the market is very interesting. But when market starts shrinking, market starts shrinking, consumer becomes very conscious about where they want to invest and how they want to invest. So at this stage, they would, they would have these companies would have big problem. These companies who were running only for economy scale, just mass producing, just for doing and that thing might not be able to survive in the market. And I think the brands which would be strong, brands which would have their own good recall value would survive better. But I also tell you, these times, new brands would be born. A lot of new brands would be born. New opportunities would come in the market. A lot of people would shift and create their brand into more relevant answers. And these are a kind of companies, which we would start seeing this guy. And I think the first two quarters of any recession is all about taking control. But now people would start becoming and I think you're already seeing, you know, Mahindra launching the new thar, which is coming in. It's all over the internet, all over the entire thing. Why it is happening Mahindra clearly saw. This is not time to really go out and create. You have people who are fans. So he wants to now engage fans. He doesn't want to go to customer because commuting is not people who want to drive people out to buy. He's very clear. He's very sharp. He saw that commuting is not a preference today. People don't just because I want a new car is not going to make a purchase. They will not make a purchase decision because they would delay the purchase decision, which means Mahindra was a computing decision, you know, want to buy a car, let me buy this, I can buy this, I can buy this. But now he's gone to fans. He says, I will only address my fan who just live for this. This is the desire to have it. And he's doing the right thing. So you will see when this car launches, I'm very hopeful that it would create a history that never thar sold so much, which they sold in pandemic, that kind of rule will come. But particularly because he just picked up the fans and took it out and this and that. Like mobile phone, Apple would come. You'll see a fans would come, right? This fan always wanted the first Apple whenever they come in, they come in their hands. So these companies are smart. They did never lose their fans. So you really have to see where you fit in and how you were able to do that. Yeah. All right. The next question is from Mahima Suri. She says, as a waste management and recycling company, how can we create our own brand value? I think Mahima's answer is, you have answer in your, what you do in terms of a waste management recycling or circular economy itself is a demand side. It's from a brand building side. I think one, there are very few companies, very few people are doing this. So there is a kind of a blue ocean kind of a structure. Second, I think this is a topic which everybody is talking anyway. So you need to really use them to talk about. Everybody already talking, every industry, every company, every organization, every organization has to talk about it. A government has to talk about it. Now you need to really see how you integrate with them and they talk about you. So fundamentally, so it's much easier for you. What I was saying, talk to, through your customers, not to your customers. So make sure what, who are your customers and talk to them and say you are doing something with any of the recycling, like say large organization, PepsiCo, another company, they all are talking, they all are talking. How do you integrate and how do you really create your structure? So those are would be my early ideas. So you need to really see through that who's your customer and customer of these corporates and companies and which are need to look at recycling and waste management. And if they say, we work with, we are work with this company because they are the best in the town and we work with them, it builds your brand equity. So in your case, I would say brand alliances would play a very big role. Great. So the next question we have from Mr. Captain Amitray. He says, how are you seeing the utility energy sector where most of the offices are not operational and suddenly closing down? Utility energy, most of the operational and suddenly closing out, which you're talking about the, because of pandemic, this issue has Captain I understand, which needs to be done. Yeah. So any B2B supply business, B2B service businesses, if they are directly related to any of the corporates or structure, which are not working at this stage would obviously have an impact. But what I'm saying is this is a pause period. This obviously is a different discussion. So it's more about how do you really sustain this period and pause this period so that your consumption when it comes on or all alternatively find a new target group, which would start consuming. And I think a lot of companies are doing that. A lot of companies are quickly changing their target groups. And for example, I tell you we have a company we're doing. It's actually a diesel supply company. So what they do is that they supply diesel to industrial businesses. And in these days, when the lockdown started, obviously all the industries were shut. Nobody was buying it. They quickly shift their focus to agriculture. So they started doing agriculture because agriculture was still on and they need gensets and diesel and other things. And agriculture is actually very unserviced market for diesel side. So they quickly shifted. So entire lockdown, they were doing a lot of supplies to agriculture. So you have to release things through. And I think Indians are very smart. They quickly change and pivot and find out what is the best way to do it. Great. I would just like to take up the last question now. The question is by Ms. Medinha Soni. She says I'm a startup, a training and development company. Can you give me tips to build a brand in the COVID scenario for my company? So good question. So I also run multiple training and coaching companies. And I say, I mean, I manage those companies, global organizations. So in that, I always say that when you're doing a training and any kind of a professional service business, their brands are actually two. One is your company and second is you yourself. So put a lot of effort on yourself. Most effort on you. So if you become an authority and opinion leader and things which you do, then you will not have the risk of commoditization. Otherwise training and development as a just as a corporate brand or something like that sooner or later becomes commoditized. Even the biggest training company, which Barthi's floated. If you see the what kind of rates and the structure they work on, it's already commoditized. So fundamental is that for training and development company, I always see that personality plays a very important role. Don't go the other way around. Don't go and commoditize yourself and start addressing everybody. Put yourself out there. Put yourself in the, use LinkedIn. LinkedIn is a fabulous media for yourself. Make yourself authority. Make yourself opinion leader. And as you start doing it, you start, you're seeing your organization also start benefiting from that. So that should be my advice. Wonderful. Thank you so much for your time, Gaurav Sir, and for very patiently answering all our questions. Anything you would like to say in the end? Thank you. We will do, see you all at the next edition at next time is Sonali's value. It's a bit doing value. Yes. Next time we talk about value and also talk about exit. Exit is a part of how do you find exit and a lot of people are looking to exit their business. So if you are interested to listen to it, please come over. And this is something which we, we at business sex day and day night work on helping people to find profitable exits. I should like to call it like profitable exit, but sometimes not so profitable, but we are these days working hard to give people profitable exits. Thank you so much, Gaurav Sir. Thank you to all our attendees for your time. We really hope you were able to add some value to your lives through the session. And as Gaurav Sir said, we would see you next time on Saturday at three o'clock with another session. Thank you so much. Thank you very much.