 Welcome everyone, warmly welcome to our first conversation and we're fortunate today to have two special guests. And I welcome to you doctors Shabazz, Dr. Demetria Shabazz and Dr. Amalkar Shabazz co founders of the racial equity Amherst Task Force, among other things. Both the doctors Shabazz are scholars and educators, as well as community activists and longtime residents of Amherst. Dr. Demetria Shabazz has taught at University of Massachusetts Hampshire and Bay Path in the fields of communication studies, communication, Afro American studies and film studies with a focus on the role of media in history for communities of color. He is the president of the board of Amherst media and a member of the town board of registrars. Dr. Amilkar Shabazz teaches history and Africana studies at the WB Du Bois Department of African American Studies. He came here as chair of the department and served in that capacity at University of Massachusetts served in that capacity for many years, and he serves now as the interim chair. He served as the faculty advisor to the chancellor for diversity and excellence. He continues to teach in the department with an emphasis on the political economy of social and cultural movements, education and public policy. He has many publications and national honors, but here at home we are recognizing him as the man who sparked the recognition of Juneteenth Emancipation Day as a state holiday in Massachusetts as of this June of this year. We are really fortunate to have Dean Amilkar with us. Many of us have been following the task force in town council meetings and on Facebook, and now even Twitter. But now we have a chance to go deeper to better understand the task force's goals, and I expect over time to identify common interests and concerns. I note that both the task force and our JCA SEDIC initiative were responses to the anguish felt by the murder of George Floyd by the police. So, we'll begin few logistical notes. We are recording this by agreement between the hosts and guests and the continued participation you're hearing in the meeting is will be considered acceptance of that recording in your participation. To guide this conversation. In the hour 15 minutes we have Jeff and I have a series of questions that will ask to you, Dean Amilkar. In this view in the audience who have additional questions should use the chat function to send those questions where they'll be monitored by Karen Levine, and she'll ask questions in the end of the last segment of our time. And we hope to get to most of them. Judith lowest child is our timekeeper. I understand that D has to leave at five o'clock she had a previous commitment at Amherst medium, but Amilkar has graciously agreed to continue with us to by 15. We're all new at this large scale zooming. So we hope we pull this off without any technical mishaps. And let's begin. Jeff, would you start? Sure. Yeah. So we'd like to begin this conversation by stating something that may be obvious, but needs to be explicitly stated nonetheless. As we have read the racial equity task force goals and objectives for the town manager. The overall context as stated in the first three paragraphs is both compelling and critical. We are in full agreement that racial equity and social justice concerns need to be woven into every facet of town government and town management and government policy. If we are to become a community whose social, political, educational, living health and ecological environments are closer to what the late great John Lewis called quote the beloved community. So again, welcome brother Shabazz and D and thank you again for joining us to begin with. Could you give us a little history on the racial equity task force, its goals and objectives, and what has been accomplished thus far. First off, thank you all for, for having us and giving us this opportunity to really have a conversation and dialogue with you all about, you know, things that have been really important to my husband and I as, you know, residents here in this community for now over little over 13 years. We, when we married and assume this partnership, we did so also as activists. And so this is something that isn't new to us. This is something that that we live. So thank you again. The racial equity task force came out of as you mentioned Jeff, out of the most recent. What I see is a crisis of conscience and democracy here in the nation, and in this community. And what I mean by that, certainly the George Floyd murder of George Floyd brought things into stark relief as to, you know, bringing national and local attention to why we say black lives matter, and that this is an assertion and a validation of who we are when we see someone like George Floyd murdered horribly in the streets. And this is of course happened historically since black people have been brought to the shores and elsewhere. So, it brought it into stark relief and my husband and a few others in the community began to bring that national discussion into a more localized context. And one of the things that we wanted to really look at and investigate and revisit is the topic of policing locally. And so, along with our friend and fellow activists, God's eat kaya Nicosi. We began to have these conversations. They mentioned that last year with the fifth district representative Shalini Balm Balmell. They had a conversation with the police chief chief living Stone around issues of policing and public safety, really to do with mental health, you know, maybe trying to provide some alternatives to police going out on wellness checks that type of thing. And so they shared that conversation with us. They said they wanted to revisit that and we agree that we would be a part of that conversation because we shared the same concerns. And so we set up initially this dialogue with the police chief Pat D'Angelo became part of the conversation because Pat is I consider a friend of mine and we were having very similar conversations so Pat Shalini, my husband and I and God's eat kaya arranged this conversation with the police chief what ended up happening is that we had a larger forum. And when we thought of well this larger forum should represent the people. And so we invited folks to participate. And when I think of and when my my husband and I think of because we've had these conversations when we think of the people and having a more participatory democracy. We think of people's assemblies as a part of that organizational process and having folks be engaged in some way. And so we called it our first people's assembly and that was on July 4 which we felt was, of course, really appropriate. So, out of that, we decided to have a space and an organization where we could share information with others in the town who were now interested and more fully engaged in those conversations around around policing and call it the racial equity task force of Amherst. And that's how it began and we've been organizing ever since the whole summer has been filled with meetings. Different discussions and it's it's been energizing. Yet frustrating at times, because, you know, when we think of our current town government. There are some real problems and challenges and barriers to that notion of participatory democracy, almost the antithesis of what a people's assembly should be regarded as. And just to give you an example what a people's assembly is in Jackson, Mississippi. They formed a people's assembly type of process to begin electing local government leaders and you know, it worked. Other people's assemblies where we have seen work is in the UK. And for those of you who were in a part of the environmental movement, the I think it's the the extinction or forget the name but it's the people's something extinction and they've been really successful at using people's assemblies as a means of organizing so just the kind of short of it. That's, that's where we get the name the racial equity task force and the people's assembly as our organizing principle and process. Thank you. I really like the idea of participatory democracy for us old new leftists that's an endearing term. But it does lead to the to the the next question which is, what do you see as the challenges or obstacles of the task force and and I note that that things are changing almost by the day. Articles in the newspaper today about the town joining. And I don't know this organization called gear but so so it's it's like this is in real time but I'd be curious to hear what your what you feel the challenges are for the obstacles at the current moment. Sure, I can speak to that and then I'm sure the other Dr Shabazz will have some thoughts on it. What has been evident from the beginning the people's assemblies type of process and organization is meant to happen in person. And really it has to do with, you know, having certain discussions, trying to assess priorities, right, and then creating an action based on those priorities. Since we're not in person all of this is happening just as we are, we are here virtually and remotely. So that is a bit of an impediment and having those kind of immediate type of conversations. However, the technology as we are here allows for more people, theoretically to participate if they have the technology. And so for those who don't have the technology or unable to work with that technology, it makes organizing using a people's assembly method a bit more difficult. So one of the ways in which we try to work with those challenges is also dependent upon technology sending emails. I've made phone calls, particularly to elders to try to get them to weigh in those types of ways of communicating. But there's that challenge. The other challenge has to do with structurally just within our town and our town government. As you said, Jeff, almost daily there is another another announcement being made. Mind you, none of those announcements. I am certain would not have occurred nor the conversations about racial equity and social justice had it not been for this summer's activism with the racial equity task force. I can assure you, because we have, you know, it's been difficult, but just one of the obstacles in terms of our own town government. And this is why we have resorted to or we embrace the people's assembly process is that when you think of not only black indigenous people of color, but working class folks, folks with small children, etc. Our government does not engender kind of civic engagement in a very convenient way. So we're talking about staying up, you know, sometimes past 1011 o'clock just to have public comment and for folks to hear our voices. And so sometimes there are moments in which we have organized and people have simply texted us or email doesn't said, hey D, or a milk car, I have to go put my kid to bed so this is what I want to say, so can you make sure to say it in some way. So if you know those challenges exist but they exist because of how our town government our local government is is set up. In addition, when you think of when we do weigh in there has been a recent example where the people have spoken. And our town government is simply kind of ignored what we have said. And so, you know, not feeling validated when you did try to participate. You know, you did try to either through public comment or through a letter to your town counselor. And your voice wasn't heard. You know, it wasn't considered. So I think these are ongoing problems and what you're referring to with the G a R e program that is we we are still looking at that I've did, I've done some research where it's been used elsewhere in the Brooklyn, Massachusetts being one of the spots where the program is being used. It looks like this is a very managerial type of approach to diversity, and that is concerning, because what we are trying to do is, you know, as a goal is have some type of collective process where the people's voice is heard is is considered and helps to shape local town policy. And that is that is really concerning because in many ways what it looks like to me on the surface is that this is a kind of a public relations type of move, and that it is managing descent instead of hearing differences of opinion and other voices. Thank you. I think Jamie has the next question. Well, just in following up, my next question concerns the police. I first was aware, our committee was we were wanting to learn about policing in Amherst, and I started with the recording of that June 11 meeting that you had. And I felt you've opened up a lot of things and I wonder if how to how can the town reimagine policing. I think there's a great support for it. There was just an Amherst forward email saying we need to rethink how we're doing policing. And I reading on the comments on your on the racial equality racial equity Facebook page. So there's support for so how to do it. We do have the council. I wonder if there's something like a people's assembly that could be a parallel focus on police or what are your thoughts. Well, you know, it's, there's a lot of talk. But as we would say back in the old civil rights movement days, you know, it's also about walking the walk who's who's ready to walk the walk. I'm struck by the fact that the people's assembly we had with with the chief with chief Livingstone and and captain team. And I mean, and right there. The chief is saying that, you know, when when presented with with the issue of the need to have public voice public feedback and transparency with the people about our police department. He said right there in the presence of of the of the of Lynn Grissmer and the and the town counselors and and the town manager that he welcomes. Somebody saying, oh, we've got a perfect police department and there's, you know, and if you want transparency with our police department, we are insulted because we're doing everything so wonderfully and blissfully and and there's no need need to reform or reimagine anything about the police we're great we're perfect. It didn't come off like that. It came off very humble very matter of fact. Yes, our complaint process, you know the the Boston, former Boston Commissioner studied it in the aftermath of the Blarney blowout and said what police come complaint process. When we asked where where were the complaints. They didn't have any complaints. Meanwhile, the students are all telling the interviewers from the project that oh yes I complained oh yes I filed my complaint oh yes I told, you know, but they had no complaints to show. Okay, hundreds of over 100 and something students arrested. Some of them feeling very much that the way they were handled with pretty rough and unjustified. The cell phones broken and, and, and, you know, 500 pepper balls, shouted people. But we've never pulled our gun before we've never pulled a weapon before in 40 years. And there's no complaints. So we had to call the, you know, we have to call this out, not trying to be ugly not trying to be troublemakers, except in the sense of John Lewis some good trouble. But that's all in and so he had to admit and humbly so that he would welcome some type of civilian oversight some type of citizen oversight review input process, it would seem to me if we had a serious town government. The next day. There should have been a press release going on the next day. There should have been processes going out to say hey we're forming a civilian review board we're forming a commission on police practices, you know, we're trying to develop the mission and we're trying to develop the focus of it and this how it fits within our overall strategic plan. The next day things should have been moving. But these people don't, you know, they have no, they have no urgency about anything. They don't, they don't, you know, it's just, it's just very upsetting. I'm sorry, y'all, it's just but it's very upsetting that you come off of a meeting where the actual where the cheap is humbling up to tell you yes, we could use this. Yes, this can help us be a better to better serve our community to hear from folks. And nothing, nothing moves, nothing moves, but going to, you know, form some some alliance after the way the Brookline people are doing and announcing this and announcing that, you know, so it's a lot of talk out there folks. But, you know, I'm an old soldier in this and I'm less impressed with the talk I'm interested in when are we going to walk the walk, because, you know, this should have already been done. You know, we can read we reading about people being appointed in Northampton, and we got, you know, a counselor here got the, you know, the Hootspur, whatever you say to say, you know, well if it's anything concerning Northampton, you know, I'm not interested in anything in Northampton for Amherst, and you can quote me on it put her name in the in the thing, you know, in the quotation, put her name in there, it doesn't interest me if it's from Northampton. Come on, come on. You know, again, it's a lot of talk. But then when the rubber hits the road I just I don't see anything moving. I don't see anything moving. It's week after week after week after week it's more little show it's more little, you know, announcement from from Amherst backward I just forward is, you know, announcement from from here announcement from there. Oh, no, no, no, no, I'm not impressed. It's when the rubber hits the road. The chief himself has said, he welcomes some input. He walks he knows he's in a very, in a very astute town, educated town, a lot of people here that can give real constructive feedback on how to to move in a different direction, how to reimagine he knows that he's a smart man. And he welcomes the some the feedback and constructive it'll strengthen his hand in dealing with some of his own, his own force to better impress upon them. Why they need to be at that training session why they need to do X, Y and Z why they need to file better reports while they need to handle people better while they need to be responsive to people's complaints. And it strengthens his hand. But you know but I began to wonder do you want to strengthen his hand. So a lot of talk is out there folks but I'm interested in when are we going to walk the walk. Thank you. Thanks a milcar. I'm well my, my next question is sort is maybe related. What's been the reaction to in town in the community to racial equity Amherst of their other organizations that we want to join on I mean one answer is to build a bigger you know force that says this has to happen. That's our answer that's that's why we're here. That's why you know we've connected with the fund for one three that he can talk more about the upcoming people's assembly that we're organizing we 100% agree with you. If we, you know, I had an old soldier that I studied under back when I was an undergraduate in Austin, Texas, a woman named Dorothy turn I want to say her name she's passed on, but she was a she was a true soldier. And she said, you know she bad as it's only two things that's respected in this country by the people with power, and that's money and numbers. And so if you don't have the money you got to organize the numbers and so I think that's, that's really where where we are. And, and I think that that, you know, they can speak to more of that. Well, thanks for helping spread that word. I certainly think I'd like to follow up on that. Yes, I think. Yeah. So, as we from the JCA commit to learning from the leaders of the black indigenous and people of color community and Amherst. Can you comment on what you think are the most important elements of coalition building. You know, the important elements of coalition building, particularly right now is a shared vision of community and what we want this world to look like. You know, I say all the time, do we really want to have these conversations 10 years from now, is that do we want to be back in this moment, because if we are not working together, you know, everyone. That's where we're going to be. And our grandchildren, our neighbors, our friends and family, they're going to suffer. And when we think about, you know, he who shall not be named the orange one. When we think about him, you know, he's, he's just a symptom. And we have white supremacist ideas that are shaping our interactions, shaping our policies, shaping our structures and systems that we are in right now, both locally and nationally. And so we have to do this work together. One night when we were all on a town council meeting, it was it was actually the one of the brightest moments I have had in Amherst, where my neighbor to the left of me and her son. They were on the town council meeting and we were all talking about the same issues. My neighbor to the right of me. That is, you know, leading the South Hadley vigil. And then our newest neighbor further down the road was also on. We wanted to rename our street freedom town, you know, I mean, it was it was just really, you know, and it hadn't been planned. It hadn't been coordinated except with my neighbor to the left. And just to have that moment where, oh, we all want change. So, so maybe this is the time in which we're going to get there, but it has to be intergenerational. You know, I look at the D fund for one three young people and their energy and their ability to do the research and the number crunching. That is totally needed. But what's also needed is our collective wisdom as older folks who have been in this community. And in this world for quite a while. We have also been a part of different movements. And that is is totally needed right now to shore up these young people and not have them feeling that this is all for not. And that they're doing something that is totally out of line and out of step with the previous generation. This is the continuation of the struggle. We have to revisit that until racism until, you know, it isms are are gone. We have to revisit that and it needs us there. The movement needs us. We need to be when we can standing in the streets with these young people when we can. We need to be up late at night on town council if that's if that's our march if that's our protest. We need to do what we can, because it needs us anti racism work needs us now. It's not something that's just an event with George Floyd, and it's not something that's national one of the things that the town council, one of the town counselors. Well, a couple of them had said that Oh, well this is simply a reaction and a response to what's going on nationally. No, it's not. What we did was bring us together and remind us of what is the struggle locally, and the struggle locally has always been for for BIPOC people. There are many people who are at the margins and other ways such as the poor and the working class, the undocumented that when they are confronted oftentimes with the police. It is profiling. It is harassment, and it is ill treatment. And so what has been one of the responses to the racial equity task force and I always say my husband and I we are not attorneys, you know we can refer to an attorney, but people are once again because they've done this before they come out and they say, I was stopped. This is what occurred. My daughter was was handcuffed. This is what happened. My son, I had to go and meet him in the streets because I was afraid that something would happen. You know, these things occur all the time. And what what we don't get is that reporting mechanism that my husband talked about what we don't get is when people who identify as white. Those aren't things that you experience on a daily basis. And we do as a collective group, and we hear those stories and we commiserate and oftentimes we don't go further in the reporting because we're afraid of some type of, you know, retribution in some way. It's risky, in other words. And that is that is what we live even as the privileged people we are with education, you know, achieve some some level of middle class status and we're still profiled. I've been stopped. My husband's been stopped. Our son has been stopped. And these are our concerns and fears within this community. And what we are trying to do is create policies and practices that won't only just benefit our children and friends and neighbors who are people of color, but they will benefit everyone, particularly the, you know, the wellness checks and having someone who was fully trained to handle a mental health crisis instead of someone with a badge and a gun and a uniform, you know, these are things that can be put in place to benefit everyone in the community. So the response has been, for the most part, pretty positive. There have been folks who have critiqued particularly the police defunding, you know, as many people have questions about it. They're not fully saying no, no way, but they do have critiques and I think that's healthy. So we need to figure out what would be a system if it's to defund or it's to have some type of overview board. We have to decide what's best for our community and we have to we have to do that together, but you have to hear from the people who are experiencing this treatment, not just those who benefit from the protection of property, etc. within the community. Yes, thank you. Thank you very much. If I could follow up on one other thing that we touched upon. And, and that is that in the, in the task force text to the town manager around performance objectives. One of the things mentioned and I'll just quote this is quote, a process for learning about the experience of many Amherst residents. We are aware that in Amherst Amherst in many ways is a segregated community where black indigenous people of color have vastly different experiences, which you just referred to. Both of you in town functioning, then white residents. What we would be interested in learning and constructing a process so that learning about these differences can occur. So what, from your point of view, what would that process look like. I think it's, there are many, many facets to this. You know, D got a call from the town and they were asking her to take time out to analyze a survey. Now she has a PhD in the social sciences and, you know, constructing doing this kind of work is, is something that that she has studied has done. And, you know, yeah, you want me to ask me to volunteer to something but then also in a way that kind of implicates my name into something, because then people can reference. Oh, you know, Dr. D Chavez, you know, vetted vetted this survey instrument. So, you know, you had to kind of just say, well, well, hold on, you know, I don't know about this. But this is, you know, that's sort of one way, surveys, focus groups. For us, it's a community organizing issue. Okay, and that's where the concept of people's assembly comes in. There's something at Hampshire College called Ahmed Aqbal series, maybe some of you even knew him or met him before. But in one of the Aqbal series guests that they brought out one year. Keynoters they brought out was the daughter of a man that that I worked with in the movement for many years met him first back in the early 1980s a man named Shokwe Lumumba attorney Shokwe Lumumba. His son now is the mayor, and his daughter Rukia is a great activist herself. Now, both of them were, you know, just little, little kids running around when I was back there working with their, with their father but and staying at their house in Jackson when they first moved there doing work with them. And, and so, you know, it's just inspiring to me to see that generation come up and and move things. You know, keep the struggle going and some different things and we were doing back in back in the day, but, but one of this process of the people's assembly is really a distillation of a lot of things that we were studying and we were trying to implement. We were very inspired in the people's assembly by knowing the work of a man at main, and I'll cite him as kind of the intellectual figure within that movement but it was the people of Guyana. And the man was a man named Walter Rodney. Walter and Patricia Rodney were were major figures and fighting throughout the Caribbean, the pan African world. And Walter was killed by a bomb in Guyana. Patricia is is a social worker and a professor in Atlanta and still lives today and has the Walter Rodney Memorial Foundation. But they, that was how he organized and the people organized the Working People's Alliance in in Guyana. And so many of us, you know, knew of the work of Rodney, many of us followed the work, the kind of organizing work of the man I'm named for a milk of Cabral in Cape Verde Verde. So, you know, they're these different processes that we live through we studied we worked with in the 70s and 80s and attempted to implement and develop here. And then it became the children of us of us that that took that to another level. And the people that took that to another level in Jackson actually while Chokwui was still alive. He back and when we were working in the in the 80s we our thoughts on electoral politics were in the United States of America, where we're like, ah, you know, that's that that that's not our form of activism. And, but, you know, over time, and especially as we we moved back into the south and Chokwui left Detroit and moved to Jackson. People came to him and said, Hey, man, no, we need you to step up. And, you know, and so he did run and he first was a city on the city council. And, and it was through the People's Assembly process that they organize what his platform was what he, you know, was going to go there to represent what he would work to accomplish for his constituency. Then he got elected to mayor, and it was the same process developed going to the people, opening the space up to to hear from people what are the problems what do you do you want. You know, is our strategy, for example, in in developing Jackson is that okay, we're going to give major tax breaks to corporations to come down here. And we're going to build up all the infrastructure to invite these corporations to come down here. And presumably they're going to give us jobs. They're going to give us these jobs. And that'll be great for for Jackson, and which had been kind of the strategy of so economic development over and over years and years and years is, you know, give away the bank, let these corporations come down pay no taxes. I didn't find item and presumably we get some good jobs out of it. And the people said no, you know, they've seen that they they've seen that script before and they're like no that's not what we want to see for economic development. And so they began to develop this concept of cooperatives people's cooperatives, and how to find ways to to invest in the people to create the kinds of enterprises and jobs and things that that takes care of people and put people to productive employment and it's not perfect and it hasn't, you know, they're not all Nirvana but some things they've done have garnered attention around the world, in terms of the whole cooperative movement and the whole different form of of of economic development that they've been working out there in in in Jackson, but but this was a product of going into the people and so when we when they had the act ball. And, and we brought in Rukia Rukia came in as the speaker. And she took a couple of hundred, you know, people's Hampshire students staff faculty we came there from UMass, and she took us in to kind of an example of the process, and just took over the space and involved us and how they organized and and so that further kind of impressed on DNI we were both at Hampshire that day that kind of impressed upon us that and so when this moment jumped off. We were saying what are we doing and where we are. That's where for DNI it has been a moment to really kind of reflect on on that that type of process and say okay let's approach this from a community organizing standpoint and let's approach it with a kind of assembly, a kind of grassroots cooperative empowerment strategy to really bring find ways to to bring forth the the voice, the will of people here because you know and others can do the survey instruments others can do focus groups others can do petitions others can do, you know, other kinds of things but that right now is how we're trying to approach, bringing forth that that and what it has been I'll say one other thing what it has been that's really the first thing that's been an important discussion for those of us working to do this is this term bi P O C. BIPOC. Because what we found, you know, just running into the community oh we we want to bring BIPOC people together we want to bring BIPOC we want to hear from BIPOC people we want to organize BIPOC. Like, who is that a disease. You, is there a vaccination for that what's what is what is BIPOC what is that some other is that the vaccination for COVID. You know, so you know we don't want to just jump in with with more verbiage and more, you know jargon and, and the latest little flavor now, so we have to kind of break that down. And as we break it down where we really first of all start with the black, the first part of that BIPOC black is not a homogenous thing here in town. There are folks like Kathleen Anderson, she likes to use the term that she's a historical African American. Right. Michael Burkard you've heard her say that she's an American descendant of slavery. She came here off the boat generation to ago from from Haiti or Jamaica or Cape Verde, she has in her family have been here and got here on the boat back right right after the Mayflower. Right. That that you know they've been we've been we were here on the first boats. And we're descendants of slavery in this country. She likes to, you know, brand that piece out there and I think it's important brand not a hierarchy. It's not a hierarchy of blackness we're the most oppressed black folks we were done with the oppression Olympics here. Right. We're done with that. And all the hetero patriarchy and all of that we're done with that so it but it's really about specifying the identity that you hold space for, and what you're coming forth to represent. So we have a lot here just under that black rubric Cape Verde and Haitian Jamaican, Trinidadian Nigerian Somali and Ethiopian, different groups out of Ethiopia, Omara, Amharic. I mean, it's very diverse. When you say black here in this town. Okay, and then indigenous. That's very diverse. And we're of indigenous indigeneity as it is lived and experienced here in Amherst, and we got to respect that we got to open, you know, find ways to open a space for that conversation. And then oh Lord have mercy people of color. Okay. And we've got, you know, people of color. I like to say, we're the shortest road in Amherst the little road we live on. And yet we have become the most diverse. We've got Peruvian. We've got Southeast, different Southeast Asian folks on this block. My neighbors are on the other side of the street detox about the left and the right on the other side from Sweden, and tell you they you know they just got off the boat here from Sweden, a couple of generations ago. They miss slavery, but they understand it's that there's white supremacy here. And then on and on and on we've got you know it's a very diverse block. But, but all of that to say, the first thing we're doing as we move to organize is to unpack a term like BIPOC and really find a process by which we open a space where all racially marginalized, racially oppressed groups in this town can find their voice and come forth to express what they are experiencing and what they would like to see town government and this town in general do. And that means on some level having translation. There are ways within zoom to have translation not only in the chat, but you can have it as as part of the, you know, the, the, what is it. You know, you the text to to, you know, voice to text and captions. You can also have a separate part of zoom, another zoom where it does translation. There are many ways to do this it would take a bit of investment to formalize it within town government. But I think it's worth it as our town becomes much more diverse and we say we value diversity. Again, it goes back to walking the walk. If we value diversity, then we should value civic engagement of everyone. All the residents deserve to be heard, because documented undocumented who are also part of our town, we all pay taxes. And so not having that opportunity to voice your concerns and participate and help shape priorities for this town government is absolutely undemocratic. So I'm noticing the time we have about 10 minutes left before you leave D and I'm going to ask a question that that 10 minutes is not any way shape or form adequate enough, but I've got to be honest with you. I'm dying to ask this question. So I'm going to ask it. And it's a little bit long winded but if you would just bear with me. The task force forces position paper on goals for the town manager is a comprehensive document, which argues that racial and social equity should be at the center of most if not all town policy decisions and consequent implementations. As such, it would appear that these goals offer an underlying philosophy and strategy for a structural reparations program and Amherst. This is certainly not the reparations concept that William Darity and Kirsten Mullen advocate, but it's more along the lines of Evanston, Illinois. So please comment on that idea and possibility. So, having a lens. Towards racial equity towards equity in general because you know a lot of the things that we also outline in there have to do with immigrant communities the undocumented, etc. Definitely has to do with reparations. And when we place that at the center of anything how how we move in this town, not only as some, you know, an idealic way of being, but also in terms of economics, you know, if we were to really look at businesses owned by again writ large by the BIPOC community that are in Amherst, not in Hadley, not in surrounding businesses that are owned and operated by people of color. There are very few in the chamber. Up until this summer did not have a comprehensive list of businesses owned by women, LGBTQ persons, nor by people of color up until this summer, and I saw them because I subscribed to everyone's newsletter. I want to be civically engaged. Up until the summer did not have a comprehensive list. Well, good for them that they finally have a list of who has reported out that they are a person of color, or belong to any other minority community. The problem is, is that had we as a community, whether you're the chamber, whether you're the town council, just in staffing the town government. Had we looked through the lens about social justice and equity, we would have looked to, well, maybe, you know, we have two African Americans who are currently employed as the staff in the town. That's great. Are there other folks that maybe we could recruit to our small Hamlet here to help in terms of diversifying the population. Are there businesses we can support that are minority owned perhaps, you know, and not have this just as a wish or an ideal. If it becomes part of our structure, there will be more parity. It's not going to be solid clad as as the other Dr. Shabazz was saying these things aren't perfect, but having different groups, organizations, persons, different constituencies that are representative of our diverse population would benefit everyone. You know, we'd have a diversity of ideas. We'd have a diversity of products and services. We'd have a diversity of folks in terms of education that don't just visit here or attend the universities, and then as soon as they finish their degree programs, they want to get out. For our children, after we're living here, once they finish high school, they immediately want to leave and never return, which has been pretty much what happens here for young people of color. So having that lens to everything that we do, again, would benefit not only the people of color, but it would benefit and enrich our whole community. And so that becomes kind of like the center stone, the center of our document, and we then go through all the different areas that we foresee and can imagine as needing to diversify such as the business community, right? Such as when we talk about transportation and housing, all of these things would ultimately benefit this entire community. You know, having housing that is affordable for, you know, working class people. I mean, our students, our grad students, they don't live here. They look for housing outside of Amherst because they can't afford to have any housing here while they're attending the university. And if they have a family, that's even more of a problem trying to find housing. So they live on elsewhere. They go to Holyoke. They go to other areas. Those are dollars that could be spent here in this community. And that's why we wrote it. That's why we tried to make it as comprehensive as we could. What we didn't, what you won't see in that, Jeff and everyone, you won't see specific initiatives and projects and programs. Because again, if it's about a participatory process of the people, we want some advisory group that's made up ideally of the elders who have the longevity and the knowledge and the experience here in this community. And we want young people who are looking towards the future and the future to imagine what might this community look like if I wanted to stay here. We want them to be the main part of the advisory group. You know, there'll be others in between, but we would like an advisory group that that would be made up of elders and young people to then guide different initiatives and projects, because oftentimes what happens in municipalities is that Oh, this is the project you want us to fund such as the $80,000 that's proposed by the town manager. And it's a one, it's a one off type of situation. So that's what you won't see in the document or specific projects and programs because we want that to be, we want the document to be generative and for folks to begin thinking and imagining what that community will look like. And so we made it for the town council and the town manager because we want it to be measurable, quantifiable for next year when we're evaluating has our town manager done anything different. Has he improved this community for people of color? So that's, that's why we created it as such. So I'm noticing the time here, Dee, and I, it's how quick the hour has gone by. Thank you all. I want to thank you. I wonder, brother Shabazz, can you stay with us a while a little bit longer? Great. Thank you very much, Dee. Really, really appreciate it. Thank you, Dee. I think we're going to open it up to questions now. Jamie, is that okay with you? Okay, Karen, unmute yourself if you would and see if we can have some question and answer period. These are questions that came in through the chat. Well, for the over the last hour, Karen has been hopefully distilling them and let's see what we got. Yeah, so hi everybody and thank you both Shabazz for just a beautiful, wonderful, rich conversation. There are two primary questions and in some ways you have both addressed them a little bit, but maybe we could elaborate. Amy Middleman asked, what would be the steps to establish a civilian review board for the policing? Shabazz, I see that you put some comments and references to other municipalities and their processes and practices. I wonder if just for the benefit of those who learn better by listening and not reading, if you could just comment on that a little bit more. Sure, thank you. So what it's essentially it gets to is when you're really trying to create a new structure within town government, especially one that can be effective, especially one that can have some teeth and accomplish something, the question becomes, what's the authorization? What authorizes this body to come by? We have a planning board that is so such a powerful force within our town because it has authority behind it. It has the authority of the charter. It has the authority of town government, whether from back in the days of town meeting to the select board to now a town council. It has authority that if you're not doing things the way they say, your building can't go up or the change you propose can't happen or whatever. And so you have to ask the question of the authority that would be behind a civilian review board, a commission on police practices, call it what you will. And so that issue of authority as I've seen it rests upon either two different things and one is the town's legislative body, the city council, the town council can authorize the creation of a new facet of city government, of town government. And that seems to be the way Northampton has proceeded that in connection with its mayor council form of government, it has decided to create a type of civilian review board, citizen review board, what have you. And they've selected 15 people, and now they're getting about the task of looking at things like how can we redirect the funds, how can we come up with a different budget, how can we defund and refund funds some new initiatives that are not based on sworn officers who are licensed to kill. So with, so that's one way. Another way is, I have a cousin of mine, a first cousin of mine in San Diego, she's an attorney there. She's been in the fight a long time. And so they went the route of getting a charter, an amendment to the city charter of San Diego. And so the people they put a ballot measure out there, the people went to the polls, and there was an overwhelming vote in support of amending the charter to create a body that has a commission on police practices. And that body that has has an articulated mission, a scope of activities in which include investigatory power includes the ability they don't have the power to discipline an officer who doesn't discipline anyone on the police force, but they are empowered to fully investigate it to have the right to look at personnel documents to have the right to interview people the right to subpoena materials that they need, and then they can render a recommendation that goes to the chief that goes to the town government about certain practices or if it's a chokehold if it's, you know, putting a knee on someone's neck or if it's certain ways of restraining people if it's, you know, issues of profiling, if it's issues of how of not having law enforcement officers be the first one to go out to a noise complaint, they can be the body that hears and bets those those issues, and then make recommendations that then are to be carried out that then can be debated and carried out by the council by, you know, and the council in directing the town manager and the chief to implement. So, you know, the first question I think you have to grapple with and creating such a group is, which way are we going and in some ways, I think, given the legacy of Amherst as a town, I'm not opposed to thinking about a charter amendment. I don't know fully all the process. Dia said we're not lawyers here, but there must be some process by which you can amend this charter that we just voted in less than two years ago. And so I'd like so first thing I'd like to have a conversation on this is charter amendment process and whether that is perhaps the way to go, or the other way is again to with our manager council form of government to have them authorize a body to authorize such a commission to then create the the mission and scope of what it is able to do what it is charged with doing, and then appointing the people who then serve on that on that body to begin to do the work so there's a lot to go and that there's a lot that goes into this if you're going to do it right and if you're going to create something that has that has juice and can and can bring the change we want. Thank you very much. I'm going to insert a question that we didn't get to that in my mind follows from this come this last question and what you just shared. The JCA said initiative wants to stay current and connected to the work of the racial equity Amherst task force, including becoming more engaged with these very processes and different options of processes that you're doing. What is the best way for us to stay connected. It's a really good question. I think the the the representational system we have here. One thing would be to kind of look at your, your, your, you know, where you are in different districts different precincts who your counselors are. You know, and really work to to pull their ear on on some of the changes and some on some of the issues that are being debated and and to weigh in with them to hopefully carry forth. One thing I can say and, you know, you follow my post or whatever sometimes looks like I'm, I'm always complaining and beating up on as of our elected officials and hey I've been in I've been in the hot seat that I feel like hey you you're there it comes with the territory, but but I am in somewhat impressed over this summer of that there there has been a degree of responsiveness. At least in about half, half of the council, you know, I see about six of them that really seem to me, and it's not because they voted the way I wanted them both but I just listen to them. Listen, just profound listening, and I see them, it seemed to me, it seems to me, trying to hear what their constituency is saying, what their, you know, what they're hearing. And, and it seems to sometimes reverse their opinions on things it seems to sometimes inform the positions they take on things so I would say that's that's one strategy is to I'm sure you've, you know, already on, you know, probably doing that and, and I encourage you to continue. The other thing is, you know, the, the, the strategy of coalition building and and thinking about how in a very open and transparent way, you know, we have one official political action committee in this in this town that have gone through the process of being registered as a political action committee able to raise money and, and, and worked into field candidates and influence people who are in governmental positions. And I really find for a town like ours and from its history from as I've observed, and as I've read over its history, I think it's, it's really a corrosive force, I like the editorial that that someone wrote I can't pull his name right now but, but he wrote and he wrote this was a very, a very bad and corrosive move for our town but, you know, on the other hand, at least they're honest, at least they, they state, you know, forthrightly that that they're here to to fight for a certain vision of of of the town right for a certain role of for for developers and people in real estate and whatnot to to to exercise over over the town. And so you got to, you got to at least acknowledge that that being forthright and what they're about. But on the other hand, how do we the rest of us move forward. And, and I think that for me, it is to just lost you. It is to try to look at coalition building. Can you hear me. Yeah, I can hear you. Okay, I just all of a sudden stopped being able to hear I can hear Shabazz's last two sentences. Can you hear me. Yeah. Okay, Shabazz, I can't hear you. I hope you're not still talking. Can I interrupt you. No, I have one last question from the chat and this is from Judy Glaser, who said, and again, this has been addressed somewhat D mentioned planning for a people's assembly. She wanted to learn more about this. I see that Aaron Berman did post the link to the Eqbal Ahmed lecture and answer college that you referenced. And so people can save the chat and leave that later. But there is more that you would like to share Shabazz about your vision about a people's assembly and Amherst and how we moving forward may be able to really start to hear more voices. Very good. So, yes, thanks for, for posting that link. I think that it's continuing to evolve. I just would say stay tuned. We'll be working on this and we'll be announcing opportunities for for people to to connect with those efforts. Something that was mentioned as well in terms of a native kind of somewhat native son of Amherst, William Darity and Sandy Darity and Kirsten Mullen just published a book a few months ago on from here to equality reparations for blacks in America in the 21st century. Great book we had a conversation on it ourselves that's on Amherst media archive on Amherst media. And if you read their book and you listen to them and on that on that conversation or in others, they very much stress that the term reparations should be reserved for the campaign at the federal level to repair the harm of slavery and anti black racism. And the argument for that is compelling. First of all, state and local governments do not have the fiscal base to begin to pay reparations that could meaningfully work close the wealth gap, the wealth gap of African Americans in terms of wealth formation. So, that that was with that was held back from from slavery and anti black racism. So, and for other reasons it's also compelling the federal government is the body that that authorized that sanction that legitimize and and protect it as an interstate as a national practice of the practice of slavery. So, for example, I'm here in Amherst and DNI are here from and our ancestors and our ancestors that go back into the times of slavery were from Texas and Louisiana. So, most of the harm that our ancestors experienced were was there, but we're here. So again to say, Amherst should, you know what what Amherst should do or what are what relative to that. You can see there's, it's a federal issue it's not a, not a direct state and local issue. So, I, I, I accept that, and I would prefer to think of the racial and equity, the racial equity and restorative justice kinds of initiatives and things that we, we have proposed in the document to the town council. And, and then other things that we're proposing that, you know, no, I wouldn't see them directly as as reparations reparations can be a local word, the upcoming talk we're having tomorrow with Reverend Robert Turner in Tulsa, Oklahoma. That is a, and the Darity Mullen would have to recognize and do recognize that is a legitimate fight for reparations. There are people who were, who are still alive today from 1921, whose families were directly impacted by the massacre by the that massacre there in 1921. There are not many left, you know, and they would have been very young at the time. But, but the point remains, there are people or their immediate descendants who are still alive and and we're still affected and never allowed to sue never allowed to get any form of reparations. And that is a fight that that is ongoing there in in Tulsa. So, you know, there, there are cases like that, but in general, I agree, it is a federal policy best represented legislatively at this point by the bill HR 40 that Sheila Jackson Lee of Houston is the author of that has been cosigned by both our Representative McGovern that has been the Senate version by Cory Booker has been signed on to by both Elizabeth Warren and by Ed Markey. So, you know, we, we were there and and I do do correctly agree that that's that's where we have to keep the focus on what what reparations but there still is local work of remembering local work of of restorative justice local work of that that we can we call by other names. Jamie, why don't you wrap things up here for us. Certainly, I just want to thank you so hardily on behalf of the JCA SEDIC initiative. This has been such a meaningful conversation I learned so much and your insights and and really the passion call to action that I'm moved by and don't think I'm alone. So, I hope this is the beginning of many conversations and unified action and make this Amherst our home a better place for all.