 We're not in the business of scaring people and trying to like make them scare to their water. That's not what we do at all. But what I will say is the state of California did this giant cancer risk assessment for contaminants and drinking water. One of the contaminants that they evaluated was Chromium 6. Now LA, I think the number you said was one part per billion thereabouts, which is 1000 parts per trillion. So when the state of California went in and looked at what level of Chromium 6 has a negligible impact on cancer, they came back with 20 parts per trillion. 20 parts per trillion is just not economically attainable for a municipality like LA for every drop of water that they produce. What we argue a hydrovive is the water that goes in your mouth should be as close to those like cancer risk studies as possible. You can prioritize that water. Hello and welcome to start at the storefront. This is the Launchpad series. Over the past year of doing this podcast, we've grown and so have our guests. We've always strived to cover every aspect of the entrepreneurial journey from the ideation to the product launch and possibly even the exit. Most of our guests have been in the game for a while, but we know that those aren't the only stories worth telling. So we created this offshoot of the podcast to cover the companies that are just starting out. Today we talk with Eric Roy, founder of Hydrovive. They create water filters, but this isn't like the Brita that you might have in your fridge. These are water filters that are specific to your city's water data. It might not be something that you've ever considered, but the age of your home and city's infrastructure, the natural geology of the region, and your proximity to industrial sites, farms, and military bases all affect the quality of the water that comes out of your faucet. So without further ado, I present to you our conversation with Eric Roy. Welcome to the podcast. Everyone on today's show, we have Hydrovive and the founders with us, Dr. Eric Roy. Dr. Eric, thank you for joining. Tell everyone a little bit about who you are and about your company. Thanks for having me. Hydrovive is a water filtration company and basically what makes us different than all the other water filter companies out there is we optimize every filter we sell for the customer's water. We figure water across countries different, the filter should match the water. And we'll get into all, we'll get into the weeds on a lot of water quality and things to look out for, but I love the beginnings of your company. Can you just share with us a little bit about how you got into the space and what made you want to start this company? So I'm a chemist by training. So I've worked with, you know, doing R&D for department of defense, EPA sponsored research and things like that. And, you know, I got into the water quality world probably back in 2005 or so where we're developing membranes to purify water and to measure contaminants in water. But Hydrovive actually got its start. It wasn't actually supposed to be a company. It was a charitable effort. So basically, you know, I think everyone now is aware of the Flint led crisis that took place back in 2014 through, you know, arguably today. And Hydrovive really just started as a charitable effort to get high capacity led removal filters to families and child-centric organizations out in Flint. That's how we got started and eventually turned into an actual company. And what was the first step there? So, so I want to debunk some things because I think whenever people think of filters, they think of these ones that you can, you can buy and put in your fridge. And it's a little filter, right? It's like a pretty small size of a small cup. What is the thing that that filter doesn't do can't do? Because I realize your filter is a little bit bigger. So I just want to walk through a little bit of what is it that your filter is doing that a lot of them don't. Yeah. So saying the word water filters kind of like saying a car. You don't know if you're dealing with a Honda Ferrari dump truck or anything like that. So when people talk about water filters, usually what they're talking about is some sort of a pitcher, you know, from a large brand that you can get at a big box store or, you know, the thing that's in your fridge. And those technically, yes, water flows through them. So it's filtered. But the reality is they don't always do what you think they do. So with water filters, you have what's called active media and different types of active media remove different contaminants. So what we do is we actually put active media in that removes things like lead, arsenic, chromium six and things like that. So there's a pretty big difference. There are stuffs a little bit bigger. It's a little bit more expensive, but it actually works. And when you were first launching, when you say it was a charitable effort, you were just giving these away? Yeah, I mean, yes. We didn't start charging until yeah, it was, yeah, it was not a business. Let's put it that way. Yeah. And at what point did you think, Hey, maybe we can solve this problem or at least help so many more people outside of Michigan? At what point did you start thinking maybe this is a business? It was grassroots. Honestly, Diego, it was, you know, I ran out of money. I'm not a wealthy man. So there was a limit to what I could do. So I was kind of talking to friends and family and being like, Hey, can you chip in and buy some materials or whatever? I set up a GoFundMe that was a colossal failure that, you know, didn't raise like $1,000 or something. But ultimately what I started doing is just kind of going door to door in Washington, DC. And what we learned is people wanted water filters. People were seeing that the filters that they were buying in the stores weren't working. So it kind of turned into, okay, we'll sell water filters and kind of spin the profits forward into, I don't want to say profit margin, we'll spin the margin forward and allow us to kind of make more filters for people. And that's really how it got started. And then, you know, in Washington, DC, no one's actually from Washington, DC. So they're all from somewhere else. So they're like, Hey, could you make a filter for Chicago? And like, yeah, why not? And that's kind of where it just, that's when it became apparent that there was market demand. That's fascinating. I mean, the one thing too, you know, I'm a civil engineer. And so I spent a little bit of time in wastewater treatment plants and at least toured a bunch of them. And some cities had fluoride like the county of Amherst, Massachusetts, we went to go visit the plant, they said their, you know, their population is generally young. They said, we have a lot of children here compared to other districts. And so what they do is they add a lot of fluoride, and they do that for the child's teeth. And, you know, it sounded very logical. And then all of a sudden I fast forward 10 years, I see all these campaigns around why fluoride's bad. And I'm looking at doing the research and I'm like, you know, is it bad like anything in mega amounts, of course, but it's I don't think these water treatment plants or at least my impression of it was, I don't think they're putting the amount in it. That's going to be what I would call harmful to the human body. But what was even more shocking to me was how these counties, states, everything's different. It's, there isn't like this universe, even though we think the EPA governs everything, I think they have suggestions and it's up to these cities governments, these local local communities to move into that. And so when you just said, someone asked you to make a water filter for Chicago, do you see just big differences between water quality across the United States? Oh, there's huge differences. So Chicago, for example, I mean, their source water is Lake Michigan, which is a surface water source. Chicago's water does not have arsenic in it, for example. But if you look at places in the Northeast, I'm from Maine originally. And if you look in the Southwest, where a lot of the groundwater has arsenic, that water looks different from a chemical perspective than a place like Chicago. And we think it should, you know, the filter should reflect that. Yeah, that makes total sense. And so at this point, where your companies at today are you solving for, I was just looking at the LA LA water department, they released a study that the last test of the waters in 2017, which I thought was seemed a long time, it was like, wouldn't they want to do this annually? But there is arsenic. And it says it's like under one, it's like 0.3 parts per billion of arsenic. But even that was surprising. I was like, that's, that's crazy. So does your filter at this point of where you're at, does it solve for removing for certain things now? Like, are you like for sure, just give us a window into some of those things? Yeah, I mean, arsenic, that's not a problem. We build arsenic removal filters all the time. I mean, again, the different types of active media are what remove the different contaminants. All the other water filter companies out there just mass produce one formulation. Whereas what we do is we actually take the time, look at the water, then build the filter correctly. So it's really just solving a math equation, essentially. And that's what we do in house. Yeah. And when you first launch, I imagine, I mean, the hardest part to this type of cell is, is education, right? You have to literally educate the consumer on what it is the water source is, why these things might be good or bad for them, and how your filter works. And so what, what was that like? I know you have this, it's amazing. You have a great blog now. It seems like you've put a lot of work into that. But what was that first step like in just in terms of educating the consumer? Yeah, it's just hard because it's kind of a new thing, right? So normally when consumers buy anything, what they do is they just look at the spec sheet. And because we don't just mass produce one thing, like our spec sheet, if you will, is kind of a different thing. So we actually have to be like, look, like the spec sheet doesn't actually matter if the thing that that filter is built for is not your water. So it's, it's more of a conversation that we have. I think there's a growing awareness of water quality problems in general. The media is doing a pretty good job covering a lot of these things. So the awareness is kind of there. At least there's enough awareness in a large enough market to make it, you know, business worthy. So it's not like we need to, you know, convince someone that, you know, lead is bad, for example. So, you know, there's a little bit of education taking place in the media. And like you said, our blog, we've, we've spent so much time, money, effort, person power, you know, having scientists actually write articles about water quality. So, you know, we kind of have our information offering and then we have our product. And fortunately, we're able to develop a product that, that reflects the information. And then at some point of your business, you end up on Shark Tank. At what point were you guys like, how long have you been selling the product before you got on Shark Tank? And what was the seed? You know, obviously a lot of companies goes on. And what was the thing that made you say I need to go on the show? So, again, this wasn't supposed to be a company. There are a lot of starts and stops. I had a full time job. I was actually part of another startup that then got acquired. So I mean, like there were starts and stops, right? So Shark Tank is something, I mean, I always say like Shark Tank is basically the soundtrack of my parents' life. Like when, when like they're home and kind of making dinner and stuff, Shark Tank's playing in the background. So I was very aware of the show. We talked to a lot of people like, oh, you should go on Shark Tank. And, you know, I just kind of punched into Google how to get on Shark Tank. And it turns out there's a couple of different ways to do it. We literally just wrote an email to like pitch at sharktanktv.com. And apparently that's, I guess I was naive enough to think that that would work because as I understand, not many people do it that way. Most people go to open casting calls or they have some help, you know, getting on the show. But it worked out for us. So I mean, we didn't do anything fancy. Let's put it that way. It was, it was a surprise. Yeah, that's great. And then you got on the show and then you end up getting a deal with Mark Cuban. He basically doubles your, he doubles his take, right? So I think it's 400K at 10%. And then ended up being 400K at 20%. We've had a lot of people on the podcast that have been on Shark Tank. And one of the things that this one individual mentioned is apparently there's this, there's a girl out there who has tracked all of the Shark Tank episodes, what they offer, what the valuation, if a deal was made. And it turns out just after 10 years of data, what it, what actually turns out is that the Sharks will always either reduce their stake, right? So basically they always want 2X what you want. That's what happens every time. And so valuations always get cut in half. Almost, it's almost like a rule now. And I saw that with yours and I was like, oh, that's really interesting. Here it is. It happened again, more data. What has Mark been like to work with and how has he helped your company after the show? Yeah. So one of the things just to realize about Shark Tank, and I'm sure this is not a secret, is the show really is genuine in that the Sharks have no idea. They know nothing about you before you walk out there. They're handed a card with your name and how to pronounce your company name. So after you kind of make an on-air deal, you go through due diligence where you actually meet the teams and kind of start working with them to see if it's actually going to be a good fit. And basically as we kind of went down that path, we both sides kind of agreed that it wasn't going to be a great fit. So we didn't actually end up closing with Mark. But his team was tremendous. I mean, it was just that due diligence process was really quite enlightening. And he has an absolutely stand-up professional team and they were great. We just had different visions for the company. Yeah. But the beautiful thing is you're on air. And so you get a tremendous amount of marketing. And now to some extent, you've been given an opportunity at scale to really educate the market on the problem. And so what has happened since then? And so what have you guys leaned into? You know, obviously, I think at this point, your company seems to be like pretty well known. What have you seen just in terms of marketing and in terms of sales? Yeah. I mean, we were on an upward trajectory anyway. So one of the things with us, we actually were told that we weren't going to air. So we were not counting on that at all. So we just kind of got back to business. I mean, you know, at that point, we were working on growth and things like that. You know, I'd started hiring people. I made my first hire in January 2018. So we're actually working towards incremental month over month growth. And basically what Shark Tank did for us, it kind of, obviously we saw the spike when our episode aired, but it also kind of changed the slope of that growth. So our trajectory changed. So it's just kind of one of these things where when you're a new company starting out, one of the questions you get a lot is like, are you legit? And it just really, really helps to be able to point to, you know, national exposure like that. Because before you go on the show, you go through due diligence with, you know, the production company and stuff, they want to make sure that you're not a criminal or, you know, gonna pull fraud on use of their platform to pull fraud. So there's, it's a bit of a truth stamp for us. And we do use it in our, in our marketing just kind of being, Hey, you might have seen us or learned about us on Shark Tank, but you know, here's what we're doing now. That's great. And for people listening, maybe who know nothing about water or who are debating getting into water filtration or what are some of the things that, you know, if you could just boil it down to three things whether they're either myths that you want to debunk or some things that people should really pay attention to in their water source. I just want to share something with them that, you know, any novice can understand. There is a lot of misinformation out there. There are a lot of articles written by people that have no credentials, no background, no expertise whatsoever. You had kind of alluded to fluoride, for example. And there's some crazy stuff out there for fluoride, like, you know, saying it's how the US is, like, disposing of chemical weapons. And as someone who actually worked in the chemical weapons field, I can tell you unequivocally that that is not, that's just not true. The other kind of takeaway from this, and you alluded to this earlier as well, is the role of EPA. So there are contaminants. And like you said, the EPA sets a base level standard for what is considered safe and legal. By definition, municipalities say that their water is safe if it complies with the Safe Drinking Water Act. Now, there are a number of contaminants that are known carcinogens that are not regulated. So when a municipality says we're in, we're completely in compliance with all of EPA's regulations, a lot of times we counter with, well, you can't be out of compliance for something that's not regulated. So, you know, for example, like there hasn't, there's been hardly any contaminants added to the regulated list in the past 30 years. Even though we've known of new things popping up, and you know, sometimes the states take the initiative to protect against those things, other times they don't. So it's just a very complicated thing. So we really, really recommend, talk to someone that knows what they're talking about, someone who lives and breathes this stuff, because, you know, 99% of the stuff on the internet is total trash. Yeah, I just go back to like Aaron Brockovich, right? So the movie, that whole thing is about Chromium 6. Chromium 6 is still not regulated. Despite a Hollywood blockbuster film with Julia Roberts, Chromium 6 is still not regulated by the EPA. Period. So this is interesting. So in, do you think it will be at some point or no? Why do you think that is? Is it just impossible? Is it, are they basically just like, look, at this point it's in everybody's water anyway. And so we're just going to be liable for lawsuits. Like, what's the thought process? So if EPA places a mandate on states and municipalities to make something regulate, to have a regulated contaminant, the states and the municipalities are on the hook for hitting that standard. Now think about the water usage in your home. You flush toilets, you wash your laundry, you might water your lawn, you know, at the levels that these contaminants are found, that's totally fine to shower. And it's totally fine to flush your toilet with it. You just don't want to put it in your mouth, right? Or like over long periods of time, you don't want to put it in your mouth. So there's really no driving force, you know, municipalities don't want tighter regulations because then they have to comply with them. And that means they have to go to their tax base and no politician of any, no elected official, no matter what political party they're in, no one wants to go to their tax base and say we're raising your taxes. And honestly, it doesn't really make sense to like, you know, if you look at arsenic, for example, it's something we talked about earlier, EPA is regulated limit right now is 10 parts per billion for arsenic. Now, on all of their disclosures, they say that that standard is established by balancing the cost to remove it at the municipal level with the health impacts. So it's a balancing act, right? Now, we would argue that you should have a different standard for the water that goes into your mouth than the water that you flushed down your toilet. I don't think that's too profound, but the way that the EPA is written right now is every drop that enters the home that's on a municipal tap needs to hit a certain standard. So you can either make it a bar that no one can achieve, or you make it, you know, you balance the cost versus the risk. And that's what EPA does. That makes a lot of sense. And it's also unfortunate, but at least I can understand the logic I was looking at to go back to the LA water right now in LA, the, I think it's 1.1 parts per billion of chromium six presently. And so it's like, Oh, it's like, they literally tell you, they show you, here it is, it's there just to go to the other side of that. So if the EPA isn't going to do anything and companies like you are helping, is there any science to suggest any level of chromium six or a particular level of chromium six is not ideal for the human being? We're not in the business of scaring people and trying to like make them scare to their water. That's not what we do at all. But what I will say is the state of California did this giant cancer risk assessment for contaminants and drinking water. One of the contaminants that they evaluated was chromium six. Now you mentioned that LA, I think the number you said was one part per billion thereabouts, which is 1000 parts per trillion, correct? So when the state of California went in and looked at what level of chromium six has a negligible impact on cancer, they came back with 20 parts per trillion for that number. Now again, like their standard for the cancer study was negligible impact, which 20 parts per trillion is just not economically attainable for a municipality like LA for every drop of water that they produce. What we argue a hydrovive is the water that goes in your mouth should be as close to those cancer risk studies as possible. You can prioritize that water. Wow. I mean, that's powerful. I mean, that's for sure powerful. Again, I just want to reiterate, we're not trying to get people scared of their water here. And these are things that when they looked at these toxicological studies, they looked at really long-term impacts and things like that. So it's kind of chronic. It's not like if you drink it, you're going to get cancer. It increases your risk if you do it over a long period of time. Again, we're not trying to get people to be scared to drink in their water. I mean, that's not the business we're in. Other companies do that. We do not. I mean, there's plenty of people selling fluoride filter removals and it's like, I did the research and it was really the only because I had gone to the wastewater treatment plan and I had heard the engineers talking about why they had it. And now it's like, that's a very plausible conclusion. It makes sense. And given that they're adding it, I was like, there's probably enough research or they've done their due diligence and how much the human can handle. I don't think they would be blind about doing this. I mean, it's one of those things with fluoride where fluoride was introduced a long time ago to drinking water. And what we've learned, we've learned a lot since then. So they used to add four parts per million fluoride. And what they've done is they've reduced that number down to one because what they found is you could get the same, you get the same anti-cavity effects at that lower level as you do at the higher level. We also learned that when I say we, I mean, the scientific community, we learned that most of the benefit is actually from the water coming in contact with your teeth, not from you ingesting it. So, you know, it's one of those things where I can understand why people don't want it in there because fluoride is really the only thing added to the water that's intended to treat the human and not treat the water. So I can understand that argument. What we just tell people is it's not the conspiracy theory stuff that you're reading on the internet. I mean, there are some studies that have come out that have looked at IQ and fluoride levels, but it's not really translatable to the municipal levels in the United States because they're studying very, very high levels overseas where the fluoride levels were very, very high. And there were also other things that may not have been properly corrected for like poverty and things like that. So look, we tell people that if you really want a filter that reduces kind of the fluoride levels, we can build that for you, but we just really want to communicate this is not, you shouldn't be scared of your water because of fluoride. That's just the reality. Yeah. And it sounds like the approach you're taking is really around the cancer risks. And so that you're solving for that as opposed to let's call it mad history. Yeah, with lead, lead is a neurotoxin. So I mean, you solve for lead, it's not just the cancer risk. It's the things that we know are really bad. The PFAS, the lead, the chromium six, the arsenic, fluoride, when you look at the toxicological data is way down on that list. So it's just, you shouldn't be prioritizing that. I always think about, it's funny, when I think about buying a filter, I always think about like coffee, because anytime you're trying to make great coffee, it's like the first thing that they'll say, filter your water just to get the purest form. And I'm like, oh, it's really interesting. And so that's always been my approach around water. It's like, well, I want great water for my coffee, so therefore I'm going to buy a filter. But in that, what's interesting about that is there's so many options, right? It's like, where do you begin? What do you trust? And then the other thing is you have to replace a filter at least every six or at least the one I have, I replace every six months, which is tied to my coffee machine. What does it look like for your product? And so your product is a little bit bigger. It goes under, I just want to give everyone a visual and obviously we'll put videos and all that good stuff, but give everyone a sense of your product and where it goes and how often you replace the filter. Yeah, absolutely. So we may, our filter is ugly and it lives under the sink. So it works out well, right? It's not the prettiest thing out there, but it does a job that lives under the sink. It's about, it's about a foot tall, six inches wide. It's actually not too, too much bigger than this. Liz under your sink connects to the existing faucet. So all the water that flows through your faucets, cold water line is filtered. With ours, there's a replaceable cartridge just like what you're describing and you change that out every six months. That's awesome. And how much is it for people listening? Yeah, so the initial system is, is right now they're on sale. They're about 180 bucks and then the replacement cartridges are just under 60. So it's 10 bucks a month essentially. And I imagine there's a subscription program so they get emails or even automated just delivery of the new filter. That was our biggest request when we first really started trying to sell this. They're like, we just, can you just auto ship these things? So we gave that as, I mean, we, I think 95% of our customers, they just, they don't ever want to think about it. They know when they get it in the mail, it's good to go. And you know, as a result, we're able to, because we know it's coming, we can plan production around it and we can pass those cost savings on to the customer as well. When you think about your company and the trajectory and so it sounds like you have steady footing with this product. Do you think about other things, other aspects, different products that you can create? Yeah. So we've started surveying our customers basically saying, what do you want us to build next? And, you know, we get all kinds of stuff. We, I mean, everyone wants us to build a picture that performs just as well as our under sink. There's physics that, you know, doesn't really allow you to do that. But, you know, it's something that we get asked for a lot. We get people that ask for whole house filters because they want to filter every, they just want to simplify things and filter every single drop of water that enters their home. You know, again, like there's trade-offs with that. And we want to play in the world of high performance filters. You know, we don't want to sacrifice performance. We also have people that ask for things like they're like, hey, what's our best, you know, shampoo for our water. So kind of the consumer goods type stuff. And they're like, look, we're already getting filters from you every six months. We'd love to get laundry detergent and, you know, cleaning supplies and stuff like that. So these are all things that we're considering and we're kind of weighing the market before we produce it. But ultimately, we're going to build what's in line with our company values and also what our customers want. Anything on the commercial side, like anything big that you might want to go into, whether it's like breweries or anything like that? So we, you had brought up coffee. We've built some systems for some coffee shops, some really high-end coffee shops in Washington, DC, and kind of they, it's funny because our restaurant and coffee shop, people don't like us talking about it. We're like their secret sauce. So like a lot of like the ramen shops and stuff like that, like they, we take care of them. We have a really great brewery partner that I guess I can disclose up in Baltimore. It's called Suspended Brewing Company. They love us. So they, we treat their water as well. Now, we don't really make any money on the commercial systems just because it's just, it's so much work to create those. And we just, we kind of break even on that. I mean, we're really focused on the residential market. There's a lot of companies that build giant systems, but those are big engineering firms. We'd rather take that type of technology and approach and, and unlock kind of a consumer world to that. I love it. And before we wrap, is there anything that you'd like to share with everybody? What are the few things that obviously go to your website, right? So get educated? Absolutely. I mean, I mean, you've nailed everything. It's just, I guess if you're looking at starting these companies and you're looking to make a technical product, make sure your technology is right. And there's a lot of people out there that they talk about, you know, what their product will do as if it already does it. And, you know, it's kind of like that fake it till you make it mentality. We did it the exact opposite, where like our marketing is still trying to catch up to our product. I would just say, when you're dealing with people's, what's going into someone's body, if you're making claims about health, just don't be part of the problem, please, because it's just, it doesn't benefit anyone. It's short-term gains. You watch these companies explode. It just doesn't, it's not worth it. Yeah, I totally agree. The integrity is a huge component. And I think it's, you don't see it enough, but the companies that do follow it and it is part of their DNA and their ethos, I think they really stand the test of time and over time they win. At least I've noticed it. They can weather the storm. I mean, there's a saying that if you're making something that's quality, you care less about timeframe because you're never worried that you're going to get exposed as a fraud, right? So we're, we're in this for the long game. We have no desire to grow 200 fold over 12 months or anything like that. I mean, we're happy to, we're growing fast and we're, we're doing great, but we'll be here in 10 years. There's absolutely no question about that. I love it. And tell everyone to your social so that where they can follow the brand and follow you. Yeah, if you want to follow HydraViv social, I mean, we, we're most active on Instagram, it's at hydraviv underscore H2O. And I also kind of have a public Instagram handle as well, if you're interested in kind of the entrepreneurial behind the scenes. And that's at hydraviv underscore Eric. Awesome. Well, thanks so much for coming on the podcast, brother. I appreciate it. Appreciate it. Had a great time. Thank you.