 Hello. Welcome to the Judge Ben Show. This is one of the series of shows which deal with legal topics. Today we're going to talk about the proposed legalization of commercial sales of recreational marijuana in Vermont. This is a big topic and it's full of complications. We're just going to try to present to you some things that should be considered. The people you're going to hear from today are all opposed to this proposal because they believe it will lead to increased use of marijuana and will have many very bad consequences. In the prior three years, that is 2016, 17 and 18, a total of about 51 people were killed on the highways in Vermont by people driving under the influence of marijuana. This year there have been 10 reported fatalities caused by consumption of marijuana by drivers operating on our roads. There is always kind of delay in reporting so I suspect we'll be close to the 17 average by the end of 2019. I'm certain, I'm convinced because of the experience in other states that if there is commercial sales of marijuana in the state, there'll be increased use of marijuana. Therefore, there'll be more drivers operating under the influence and there'll be more people who are killed. I think this is indisputable although as we've seen recently in the news, there's no facts which can't be disputed, I'm sorry to say. In any event, with me today is Catherine Antley, who's a physician working in Vermont. Ed Baker, who's a social worker and addition treatment specialist. And Judy Margulies. Margulies. Margulies. Well, close enough. Close enough. Anyhow, who's a pharmacist from Massachusetts. Correct. I think it's very important that we get some input from other places. We're going to do another interview later today with Bishop James from New Jersey. He's going to talk about the New Jersey experience. What I want to be clear on is that there's just a lot going on here and it's complicated. And I want you to feel free to try to contact me as I go between the cameras following the little red light. I want you to be clear that you can contact me at box 34 in North Hero Vermont. Send me a note if you have questions or some other proposals you might have and I'll try to provide you with that information. Honestly, I found that after talking to my four guests who are going to be here today, we could have taken a whole afternoon. But I'm going to try to keep this first segment within about a half an hour so we won't take up all of your time. I appreciate you're looking at this because I think it's so important to everybody in the state. I'm going to call on Dr. Antley. Catherine, if you would say what you want to say. Thank you. You're welcome. So I think that it's important when we talk about commercialization of marijuana that we're intellectually honest. If we don't know the facts and we don't follow the facts, we make bad policy decisions. We've seen in the news people who are whistleblowers are important. Truth's telling is important. And unfortunately, based on statements and quotes that I have read in the media, there are those in positions of power and authority in Vermont today who appear to believe the marijuana commercialization will further goals of consumer protection and public health. This is a fictional narrative being perpetrated and propagated by the industry of addiction, which has an unfortunate history of exploitation and deception in America. The unfortunate truth is that when we commercialize an addictive substance, we end up with more public health damage and we are unable to control consumer protection in the marijuana industry to date. In terms of public health, the Vermont Medical Society has come out against commercialization and legalization of marijuana, especially the commercialization of marijuana, because this unleashes a strong commercial force to increase addiction and they do that primarily by two mechanisms. One is targeting our children who are more susceptible to addiction and creating a more powerful and dangerous substance which is more highly addictive. They put this then, it's attractive to children, they put this in candies, THC, gummy bears, and we end up increasing the number of people who suffer from addiction in Vermont. This is an important concept. There are many or there are some in Vermont who are furthering the myth that there's a set number of people in our society who suffer from this disease. This is not true. We change the environment and we can increase the number of people who are suffering. This is the tragedy. So what are we seeing in commercialized states? We are seeing cannabis hyperemesis syndrome. This was previously a case report. So it was so rare, we never saw it. Now we're seeing it in Colorado every single day in some ER rooms, departments. And what that means is millions of dollars are being spent, which otherwise were being saved. This is a drain on our healthcare dollars. What else are we seeing? The highest childhood poisoning rates in the United States are in commercialized states. So the fact of the matter is the unfortunate truth is that we're not able to control this. We have not figured out how to control commercial marijuana yet. We're also seeing increased suicidality. We're also seeing teen psychosis rates, which are increasing. And now, of course, we have the new vaping diseases, which are so tragic and have led to teen deaths. Now we know that 86% of the disease and deaths associated with the vaping is associated with THC and that these are not only street bought, they're also bought from shops. So what are we seeing? In commercialized states, we're seeing marijuana that has pesticides, heavy metals and mold. In Oregon, only 3% of the state sanctioned shops are actually tested. So if this is, there are those in Vermont who are putting it forward that we want to model Vermont's system on Oregon. Oregon has a terrible record of controlling what they're selling. In the state sanctioned shops also have heavy metals and the Massachusetts health department has been unfortunately unattentive to some of these complaints. We're also seeing the illicit market, which these things are linked. The illicit market is 72% now in California, they're saying. And Governor Newsom has asked for the National Guard to come help fight the black market in commercialized states. So are we increasing our war on drugs by commercializing this substance? And also, we're getting reports that the illicit market is actually booming in Oregon, another state, the state that leaders in Vermont are looking to model our system after. So I've concluded, thank you. I hope we will not commercialize marijuana that we will put child safety, public safety, and consumer protection first. I hope that people in the legislature hear you. I really do. Ed? Thank you. Thank you, Judge. And thank you, Catherine, for your, you know, obviously well-prepared and, you know, insightful comments. These are trying times for Vermonters for very important reasons. One of the reasons, the reason we're focusing on today simply put is drug use. If we focus upon the effects of psychoactive drugs to our society, we are immediately overwhelmed with the enormity of the present tragedy. In 2017, we lost over 72,000 Americans to drug overdose. In 2018, that number was slightly lower because we've taken some action to restrict and control access to opioid medication in our communities, illicitly used medications in our community. These numbers do not include deaths due to alcohol and nicotine. Both legal, commercially sold, both regulated, and both, I hasten to add, two of the leading preventable causes of death on Earth. Make no mistake about it. When we look at psychoactive chemical use, we are in the midst of a mousetrom. Shaken as a society, weakened profoundly by the effects of this public health disaster. Weakened profoundly by the effects of psychoactive chemicals on the human brain, causing addiction and a significant percentage of the population who use them. This is no fault of their own. Addiction is not a choice. Addiction is not a moral failure. Addiction is not a criminal personality. Addiction is a disease. It's innocent. Addiction is a disease that's fed into by clear genetic and environmental risk factors. We ask ourselves, how did this happen? Along with an already existing black-market opioid trade in the 90s, we accepted concocted research, misguided advocacy, unregulated and unscrupulous marketing campaigns by criminal entrepreneurs within the pharmaceutical industry, and the co-opted medical community's misguided attempts to create a pain-free population. All with the end result of what we see today. I ask you, how is it that with the information we presently have, with drug overdose deaths wreaking havoc in every county in Vermont, we are moving closer and closer to unleashing yet another dangerous chemical, delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, into our social environment. We call it friendly names like marijuana. It's not friendly. It's not safe. It's a dangerous psychoactive chemical. This is a quote from NADAC, the National Association of Addiction Professionals, from their position paper. Although state and local governments are increasingly legalizing recreational and medicinal cannabis use, NADAC, the Association for Addiction Professionals, does not currently support the use of cannabis as medicine or for recreational purposes. Until the body of accepted research allows a scientific community to reach an evidence-based consensus on the effects of cannabis on the human brain and body, NADAC is unable to support legislative or voter ballot initiatives to legalize cannabis for medical or recreational use. This is from the largest organization of treatment professionals dealing with substance use disorder on a daily basis every day. I'd like to take one more second, please, to read from the Vermont Opioid Coordination Council's recommendations for 2019. Under their section on opioids and marijuana, they state, quote, consistent with its January 2018 report, the OCC continues to counsel a cautious approach to legalization of marijuana, given the lack of data on the health risks of marijuana. The Council notes in particular, A, compelling evidence that cannabis use may increase the risk of developing non-medical prescription opioid use and opioid use disorder. That's citation number eight in the report if you want to delve a little bit deeper into the research. They also state, as reasons for caution, B, Vermont data from the National Survey on Drug Use and Health showing the decreasing and already low percentage of youth and adults who believe regular marijuana use is harmful. So less and less people, less and less people in Vermont today are beginning to see marijuana, perceive marijuana use as less harmful. We know that when the perception of risk goes down, use goes up, therefore cannabis use disorder goes up. And they cite finally C as reason for caution, the risk of sending a mixed message to Vermont's youth regarding drug use. I'll close now. How is it that we are about to ignore these recommendations from our own committee, convened of experts in our state? The fact of the matter is that THC is not safe. This is a scientific fact that's unequivocal. The fact of the matter is that THC causes mild, moderate and severe cannabis use disorder in both adolescents who are most at risk because of brain development, but also in adults. This is a scientific fact unequivocal. By allowing the commercial sale of THC in Vermont, we are undoubtedly increasing environmental risk for addiction for our child and adult populations. Thank you. Thank you, Ed. Wow. Thank you. Thank you very much. Judith, it's your turn, kid. I'm up. Who are? And I'm so happy to be here, actually. It's Vermont's attitude. I'm very grateful that you've come in from Massachusetts. It's really important that you give us some insight as to what you're seeing in your state. Yeah. And I'm happy to share that because as a pharmacologist and someone who really studies drugs and understands the good parts of them and the bad things that can happen with drugs, I mean, this is always a double-edged sword. Well, actually, I should say it's nothing really positive with drugs, but I wanted to share something as a pharmacologist and also as a resident in Massachusetts, some of the observations that I've observed in Massachusetts, and I have actually a few slides that I think I'll be sharing with you. So as some of you know, Wakefield Mass is the home of nationally known Curleaf, as they call themselves, a vertically integrated cannabis company. They aim to do it all, to grow, to process and to sell marijuana products, capturing profits at each step of the way. Then I have this slide here that's actually from a Russian language news service, the NewsRU. As you can probably tell, it's been translated from Russian. They call the Curleaf investment from Russian money billionaires shocking. They reported this money is coming from a former general of the Moscow News Service, NTV, and a former head of the third largest Russian oil company. Then the Oregonian in July of this year reported that these two former Russian businessmen who hold U.S. citizenship, yet one lives here in the United States, in Massachusetts is where his defined home is, and the others still living in Moscow hold a majority ownership in Curleaf, the Massachusetts Curleaf company, with 59% of the stock. Then they are self-proclaimed, you can read the headline, Massachusetts-based Curleaf intends to dominate the entire United States marijuana market. With the July 2019 announcement this year of the acquisition of a multi-state cannabis company, Grassroots, the headlines read of the creation of the world's largest cannabis company, expanding Curleaf's presence in July of this year from 12 to 19 states. They believe that they are dominating in those 19 states. Here is that map that actually was on their website, this is Curleaf's website, creates largest coast-to-coast operation. Here is the map, they control over 131, this was mid-year, 131 retail locations with a 19 statewide population influence over 177 million people. And in the last few months it hasn't stopped here because we know that this expansion has grown bigger just since mid-year. I know that Oregon is part of this, and I know that there are some other states, and I'm not sure if it was Tennessee, Kentucky, but there are other states that they are gaining this majority influence over with their philosophy of being vertically integrated. So on the same map, I would bring your attention, Vermont is right there in that white-blue-green. So of interest to Vermonters, you might be interested that Curleaf describes Vermont as being vertically integrated under their system with Curleaf, the largest license holder currently as of July of this year in the state of Vermont. This is their representation. Vertically integrated was that mean, it means that they have control over a large number, possibly the majority of grow facilities, processing facilities, and sale of Vermont medical marijuana. Why is this important for their business model? Because it's believed that those individuals who control the medical will easily be able to convert if it's approved, which I tell you I'm not for, but if they control the medical in a state there, it can easily then be the first ones to control the recreational by dominating the marketplace. And that is their business model. So by dominating the medical market, it appears to be a good play by Curleaf for their desired U.S. dominance creating big cannabis, reminiscent of big tobacco. And I would anticipate actually being worse because we're talking about a drug that affects the way people think. So the interest of Russian money in the U.S. cannabis has not been just limited to Curleaf. Here's a headline from October of this year just two months ago from the New York Times. Just a couple of months ago in October as reported in the New York Times, Russian investors have flocked to the U.S. cannabis industry in recent years. They go on then to talk about more, but then there's also the other headlines, so that Russian money, cannabis, and Giuliani all in the same headlines. And from talking points, there's another headline. The sleazy marijuana plot buried in the explosive indictment of Giuliani's associates. This is talking about what just occurred in October of this year in Nevada. Why might this discussion of big players in cannabis be so important to Vermonters when making decisions about marijuana? I asked that question. We know that of the seven states in the Northeast region, this would include Vermont and what we usually refer to as New England, but also New York were a part of this Northeast region. Only two of the seven have decided through voter referendums to embrace commercial marijuana. That means 70% of the states in the Northeast and even a larger percentage nationwide have not jumped into the frying pan into the flame. Currently, Vermont is in that majority of five of the seven who have not yet gone, and I would recommend that it's not a wise idea to do this. Based upon the experiences that we're seeing across the country, what we see in Massachusetts and in other states who have done this. Evidence-based science tells us that the majority of cannabis products are used by a minority of users. I suspect you've heard this before. It's the 80-20 rule. With 80%, the majority of the products assume by just 20% of the users. Why is this? This is because of that word addiction. The money is in creating addiction, and youth with their developing brains are the targets of marijuana promotion and normalization. They are the ones that would be targeted with addiction, with the money, with the 80% of youths. Russian money, cannabis, and Giuliani, and political influence schemes. I think we went backwards, but we're good here now. In the last, you may have heard in the case of Lev Parness and Igor Fruman. This was in Nevada recently. The grand jury indicted in Nevada just two months ago. These individuals linked with $2 million of Russian money with illegal campaign contributions in exchange for marijuana licensing favors. Florida politicians are also linked to cannabis money with ongoing federal investigation. This has also been reported in the news. Coincidentally, this Nevada thing just happened in October, but within a few weeks in Massachusetts, just a few weeks in November as reported by the Boston News, U.S. Attorney Lelling in Boston began investigations into political influence and money and marijuana. Massachusetts is home to Curleaf, a vertically integrated national cannabis company that intends to grow, process, create these products, and sell them to our communities. Where do Vermont politicians stand when it comes to political influence, power, big money, Russian political influence, and cannabis? Those of you who have watched this whole thing, thank you very much. This means so much to all of us. Personally, I can just tell you, when I've been on the bench looking down in the face of a widow whose husband and 16-year-old son were killed by a driver doing 100 miles an hour on the wrong side of the road, a woman looked up at me with tears streaming down her face and asked for my help. And of course, there was nothing I could do. There's something I'm doing now, which is these people and others trying to prevent more and more such tragedies from happening. And I hope you'll tell your legislators not to permit this. The increased use of marijuana in this state will kill people. I want to thank you for your time and attention.