 Aloha and welcome to Ehana Kakao. We're here every week on the Think Tech Hawaii Broadcast Network. I'm Kili Iaqi and I'm president of the Grass Root Institute. Well no society can be great unless there are watchdogs, people who are watching everything that takes place and telling us what's going on and that's exactly what journalists do. I think here in Hawaii there are few journalists as well known as Chad Blair who works at the Civil Beat. He's been involved watching the scene here in the state for many, many years and I consider it a real privilege to chat with him today. You're going to get to know a little bit more about him, about his craft, about the state of journalism and about what's going on here in Hawaii. So please welcome to the program with me today Chad. Chad Blair, Aloha. Good to see you. Thank you Dr. Ikeena. Oh you just call me Kili Iaqi. I will. In fact you usually are interviewing me. That's true and I have never called you Dr. Ikeena. It always makes me very nervous because you ask the tough, tough questions. I'm a pussycat. But I'm delighted to have you on the program today and you're a journalist. But you started out in academia. In fact you spent a stint teaching American studies. That's what your PhD is in, is that right? It is. Here at the University of Hawaii at Manoa I actually did not go to J school, to journalism school. Is that right? I'm totally happy to admit that. But American studies is interdisciplinary and that means you study a lot of different fields. Now that's the same degree that Governor Abercrombie earned as well. In fact I've even looked over his dissertation and if I remember correctly it has to do with Lewis Mumford and planning and so forth. And he was quite a guy and Neil there's got a lot of background that a lot of people don't know about him but it is in fact the same PhD. I should say I've also taught political science, English, English as a second language, a number of other classes as well. But today instead of trying to pollute the minds of a few students you've gone mass media. I've got the power. Exactly. So why are you in journalism? Well academia was not enough to pay the bills. Okay that's truthful. Yeah I have taught at a number of schools I would say I've done the circuit actually. So you're making the really big bucks at Civil Beat. Enough to pay the bills and for which I'm very grateful. But being an adjunct professor including for a long time at Hawaii Pacific University where I know you've taught it can be difficult let alone lacking health insurance and things like that. But eventually over the years journalism turned out to be the more solid paycheck and thus my career choice. How many people in Hawaii really make a living off of journalism? What percentage of journalists actually make a decent livelihood? You know I know so many of them and I'd probably have to include the TV and radio and Star Advertiser and the other newspapers. I'm sure it's in the hundreds. I don't know that it goes over a thousand I want to be careful there probably better to check with unions on those numbers. But it's a small and frankly a shrinking industry as it is nationally and internationally and that's why I'm all the more grateful to have a job in journalism these days. It's shrinking all over the world, shrinking in the country in a sense becoming more centralized as well isn't that happening? Centralized or maybe another word for that is well I think in fact there's a broader range of information that's out there while you have had the consolidation and you have the same corporate entities three or four of them now the Time Warner's and so forth owning pretty much everybody else you are seeing a lot of independent voices other voices aren't as controlled by upper media now there are exceptions think about the Wall Street Journal it controls it's controlled by Murdoch Murdoch also controls Fox and and there are problems with that but with that has been a proliferation of other voices in our case an independent voice here in Civil Beat we've actually expanded recently our staffing and our intent to stay a player here in the local market well let's talk a little bit about Civil Beat I'm sure one of the most common questions you get is about your publisher founder Pierre Omidyar and what his relationship is to the actual product that is put out there you know he's a great guy he it's no joke you can read it in Forbes he's a wealthy man well I read he's a great guy in Civil Beat we only print the truth you know it's all about facts and does that does the fact that you get your paycheck from this gentleman influence the kind of reporting that you or your colleagues do I know I know it's an entirely appropriate question to ask and there are people that think that Pierre has an agenda and he wants that reflected in the Honolulu Civil Beat I can tell you that he places great trust in his editors and reporters to do their own reporting we have in fact written one or two things that were I would say critical of Mr. Omidyar but Pierre is also a good man he was there for the very first two years the founding of Civil Beat from 2010 to 2012 he was there every day more than eight hours a day he and Randy Ching another founder and they were absolutely committed never once can I think of where Pierre came up to me and said that story that you wrote you know I disagreed with it he caught me wrong in a fact check or two and I appreciated that so did he tweet you something no email me back when he was still using email so there is no conflict of interest you just have to explain that there's just an appearance of a conflict of interest I think it's fair for others to make that observation I've heard it before you hear the same thing about the New York Times about Fox News in some cases it's more true than others but I think Pierre is a principal man and believes strongly in the fourth estate and independent voices we need a more than ever well that leads us to the issue of credibility how credible do you think the industry of journalism at Hawaii is everything is so overshadowed by what happened last year in this country with the presidential election and the rise of and I'm going to use the quote marks as the president does fake news the idea that we no longer are sure what is true and what is not true what is being manipulated distorted is very disconcerting you know we're old enough to remember back when we had a morning and an evening newspaper there was just three television stations and PBS maybe one or two radio stations nothing like what we have today with the internet but we all share the same news we all read the same papers the same sources with the rise of talk radio with the rise of the internet what's happening more and more is we're in an echo chamber and we tend liberals and Republicans conservatives and Democrats alike to flock to the people that are saying things that sound right to us rather than is accurately presented and balanced and informed and this is the biggest concern I have in journalism along with the fact that it's also not becoming financially profitable there are audiences that are out there that will gravitate toward a certain perspective a certain world view markets if you will and they get fed by a constant stream of information on social media radio print media and so forth how can you wade through all of this and tell its objective I don't think you can I do think that illustrates why it's so important to rely on what I call mainstream media what Sarah Palin calls the lame stream media but these are staffed by reputable experienced individuals and mind you many of them are in it for the profit they're trying to make money that's the New York Times and the Washington Post are trying to do that's what Fox News is trying to do but even with Fox News Fox News you have some pretty good reporters not the Bill O'Reilly's not the Sean Hannity's but certainly Brett Baer I think is a good reporter Megan Kelly until she left Chris Wallace I think that to start doubting those people and questioning that presenting a story to you that they've worked on and they put their reputation on the line for simply because you don't agree with the ideology that may be coming across is a very dangerous precedent let's talk about local news sure let's talk about mainstream because you'd have to have me back for a whole another hour to talk about nationally so yes absolutely let's go local but when you're talking about mainstream providing some kind of anchor for credibility does that really apply here in the local scene I mean do we have those icons those writers who are respected because everyone has seen a career of credible reporting and so forth through the in our mainstream media or is our mainstream media subject to the commercialism that we see in much of the mainland yes to your second question and there has been a change in answer to your first question for one thing you no longer have two newspapers although they did have a joint operating agreement for many years they were competitors and this state this city were better for it and you had a lot of good reporters and editors and columnists who had a lot of experience and I think all of us were better for that well back in the day when they were competitors when there were two robust newspapers we were suspicious back then of their conflicts of interest because they had the same advertiser rightly so and now that without the competition we should perhaps be a little more suspicious I'm concerned and I know a lot of those people at the star advertiser they're my friends I know a lot of people who lost their jobs and the merger happened it was in 2010 the same year that Civil Beat was founded but I think that's been a concern let's talk about TV there are let's just back up a second that does all right TV you talk about the star advertiser many of us are not aware in the public as to how pervasive the star advertiser is in terms of its ownership of print media it's admit it's got midwig for example has a terrific printing press out west it owns at least three of the four neighbor island papers if I have that try I think there's only one it doesn't all and I can't remember if it's the Maui paper or the Kauai paper forgive me for not knowing that and there's some other smaller publications as well it is a monopoly and in case you have forgotten it's also not owned by someone who lives here unlike Pierre Omidyar who does live here with his family David Black is from Canada so that's a concern what were you gonna say about television well what happened there was you have KGMB Hawaii right now and two other stations that are essentially the same station in terms of its news content you have KITV which recently was bought out by yet another corporate owner by the way I should have knowledge that they are our media partner and you have KJON what you're seeing more and more on the TV market the news market is less time at the legislature and much more time covering frankly sports the weather in traffic because that is where the the markets say the research says we are right and you can translate it to your app I think you can exactly as well so there's a consumerism here to a high degree as opposed to necessarily reporting the facts and just the facts right I think what you have to do is find a balance because consumerism does drive so much of everything well it's hard to sell news it is and so these organizations Hawaii News now in particular needs need to find ways that are creative and so forth how does that affect the role that journalism is supposed to play in society well even at civil beat we're very cautious or rather very aware I should say of how many eyeballs are going to the page with analytics in this day and age we know exactly how many clicks we're getting we know exactly how long people are staying on that article it's not a mystery it's a way to measure whether those stories or of appeal but we feel it's important to have issues that may not seem as sexy problems with police corruption for example an area that we I think of excelled on troubles with our nursing and care homes in Hawaii I can name any number of those and then maybe a little something on the lighter side one of the best traffic stories that we ever had on our site was about why people in Hawaii back their cars into parking places rather than putting a very local yeah it was and it was enormously popular but having said that recently a story that became our number one at least in recent demographics was about a care home facility in which a young child was almost lost apparently because of neglect on the part of the owner of the facility who by the way is connected to the police department what's the advantage of print media over televised media is there the ability to deal with the story in the kind of depth that it really requires to have understanding I think it's two-fold on the one hand TV news it's just like that you can't have it very long you got to have images and have the b-roll and I think most people watch the TV report and that's it I don't think too many people go back and look in the archive even if they are archiving those stories to to remember what exactly was said in a print article or online in my case it's there forever hopefully and with a Google search with strong SEO search engine optimization you can call those stories up again and again and there they are but the downside of that is how many people are going to spend the time to get through that entire article rather than just watching the TV news or as we were talking about earlier just reading the headline and moving on there's of course a trade-off when we come back from a break I want to ask you about the broader political environment sure how being in a virtually one-party state in virtually actually I forgot there are four Republicans left and tell us how that affects the quality of journalism we'll be right back after a short break I'm with Chad Blair of civil beat and you're watching a Hanukkah go every week on the think tech Hawaii broadcast network don't go away you want to talk about some socially sensitive issues relevant to women listen to these guys well I think it's important in Judaism that we don't take the Bible literally we take it seriously okay I agree and the really the key to understanding Christianity is compassion if you're compassionate towards other people you are living a Christian life and that relates also to dealing with women and men and women issues as well are women and men equal they're equal who's better depends on what my name is Mark schlaufe and I'm the host of law across the sea and law across the sea is a program that brings attorneys who have traveled across the sea and live in Hawaii or are staying in Hawaii for a time to talk about their travels where they're from where they're going and bring it all together because really we're all connected some way although we traveled across the sea so hope that you'll tune in and watch our program thank you very much welcome back from our break we're here with Chad Blair exclusive on a Hanukkah co here on the think tech Hawaii broadcast network at grassroots Institute we love to partner with think tech because think tech is a an organization that is putting out original content about 35 hours every week from Honolulu and it's all about culture the arts politics virtually everything you can possibly talk about and you can access that contact at think tech Hawaii comm we also like to say a Hanukkah co you've heard me say that many times it's kind of like a venerable old saying here in Hawaii a pool a cockle let's pray cockle together at grassroots we love to say a Hanukkah co let's work together think of the terrible alternative let's work together for a better economy government and society and here's somebody who's helping us to do that with good information that's Chad Blair so Chad how does being in a one-party state affect the quality of journalism that's a good question it certainly reduces the diversity of voices that are out there I mean say what you will about Sam Slum who I think is a wonderful man and very principled about things like taxes and transparency but I miss his voice at the state Senate instead it's 25 Democrats having said that I should be clear there are a wide range of diverse opinions within those 25 people there are factions there were some people in there that are more conservative I would argue than Sam Slum well if you don't have very many good counterparty people standing up making speeches giving news releases and taking a contrarian stand on a given issue where do those views to get who distributes those views who points are being lost in slums case I would say in particular is opposition to tax increases and fees something that happens at every single legislature and we're saying it in this session we have to pay the bills I understand that but when so Sam Slum is gone you don't have that voice on the house side you do still have five Republicans it was six as of two weeks ago when Beth Foucault that's right announced that she was leaving the party you can still count on someone like Gene Ward long-time Republican speaking out about tax increases Bob McDermott as well there are some conservative folks but you've also got Republicans like Cynthia Theland who is moderate in some ways the borderline Democrat and liberal on some of the views that she has about the environment for example but does it become harder and harder for journalism to actually portray a contrary point of view does journalism simply default because the story has to get written the program has to be put on by 530 does it default to what's available there which is the official story that's good there's a couple ways to answer your question it's sort of a lazy former journalism you know get argument a and then argument B so that you're being balanced and well it's that's a little too easy and I don't have to admit that I've relied that I'm on deadline I got to get that that's right story file it's like it almost midnight you call me up and say I need a quote and by God you guys I'm just kidding you there's some truth to it thank you but it's there there is some truth to that I think we're some journalists are moving I think civil beat is trying to do this in many ways is to get beyond the he said she said to actually trying to find out what the real answers are and to understand the implications that's a harder form of journalism something you simply can't turn around when you have day to day deadlines but we do have a number of reporters who take longer to work on a story and actually challenge the assumptions that are being made about those arguments now you believe that civil beat gives an opportunity to challenge assumptions to present a point of view that's not in the more mainstream media how well is that job going right now one of the most popular sections that we have is community voices you yourself have been featured in many times and it's a light edit we don't control the editorial content will correct typos and things like that but the range of voices that we've had I'll just give you one example the the aid in dying issue which appears to have died at the legislature this session that a mentally competent individual can take life-ending medication right we have presented probably more than just about any other topic the pros and cons on that issue and if we were one-sided if we were biased you wouldn't have that having said that our editorial board actually wrote a column and editorial saying that this should in fact be passed so we have to acknowledge that as well there's one other area that we have and that's the community comment section that runs at the end of every single article now that's dicey business because when we first started this Pierre had this philosophy you're not going to be anonymous you can't just make some sort of remark and not have your name and face stamped to that if you're going to say it you better own it since then we've modified our policy and we also have an algorithm system trying to filter out if you will the uncivil comments and sometimes come in but I think it does make a for a good presentation fairly well-rounded of the issues what issues are being under reported here in Hawaii what's one that really should be getting a lot more attention but for whatever reason mainstream media is simply not touching it I'm gonna have to plug us for having done something which was the right thing to do and that's looking into corruption at Honolulu police department at HPD and Nick Ruby and others but particularly Nick have looked at a number of things the number of misconduct cases involving officers the fact that those names are not made public except in rare cases even though they are county employees on the public tax dollar the problems with Chief Lewis K. Loha the former chief and the investigation I remember one reporter from another paper coming up to me and saying you know we used to report that stuff we used to cover it but yeah well we are continuing to report that because we think it's important I'll add one other issue as well Nathan Eagle is writing a lot about care homes and the fact that we have over 1700 facilities are nearly that much in the state but we don't have a very good inspection system well if you're going to put your elderly mother or your loved one someone who's disabled into a care home don't you want to go online and be able to find out whether there's been neglect and abuse where they've been written up we don't have that kind of transparency even though the law is starting to nudge in that direction they don't sound like sexy topics but they in fact affect everybody and those two examples where we have found some very interested readership well one of the issues that has been covered the most by all media in the last several years has been the Honolulu Rail project well what has media what have you learned in watching the coverage of this about the state of journalism I actually have to credit civil beat the star advertiser and others for having done some terrific work on the cost overruns the delays the mismanagement I don't think had there not been constant harping particularly from those publications some of the TV stations as well that you wouldn't have let's put it this way I don't think Kirk Caldwell would be having as difficult a time as he is right now trying to get the general excise tax surcharge extended into perpetuity were not for that kind of reporting and holding heart and the city accountable for the way they were managing that system so you see media as having an impact upon policy I do think that is exactly the case and then there's other groups like who I'm thinking of Cliff Slater Randy Roth Ben Cayetano the former governor very aggressive from a very early time they were pointing out that these are going to be problems and guess what they turned out to be correct they do need the media to get that message out or you can't simply start a web page and expect everybody to believe them although they do have a web page well they need the media but maybe we need to qualify that a bit they need media that will actually give them play because there has been mainstream media and that doesn't the fact that we have mainstream media down the center star advertiser right the main television stations doesn't mean that voices that are more on the outlier side will actually get heard like Cliff Slater Randy Roth and then some job of the media to find out to determine whether those are credible sources in the first place and whether what they're saying actually holds water or not so that's an example where I think we've done a good job but I still wonder we're looking at ten billion dollars right now and I sometimes this week yes it could very well change but when an article like in civil beat points out the fact that although we know the number dollars figures for the the prime contractors but we don't know for the subcontractors and was just an example of the kind of reporting that we've done I think that's revelatory and really trying to track where our dollars are going and that's speaking to a function that journalism should play you know we've we both have liberal arts education we've learned about the fourth estate we've learned about the importance in a democracy of having an independent free press in order to ensure the sustainability of that democracy how well is journalism doing in that task here in Hawaii you know something has happened since the election maybe it's not being as felt as much locally as it is nationally but I think it is in response to the tumultuous 2016 there's actually been an increase in a number of areas of people supporting you know I didn't see your red and make America great cap well mine's written in Russian so I would have been a Vinnie use anyway I think just as there's been more money pouring into some people's campaign coffers you've seen an increase in the subscriptions of the New York Times here at home civil beat we're expanding staff and doing better than ever and that's encouraging to think that people are starting to recognize you do need to have that independent fourth estate in order to hold the other three branches accountable you see the growth in journalism directly related to the last election campaign well certainly there are some numbers nationally and you can point to other publications as well I know that we're growing here in Hawaii that we are actually adding staff of course we should acknowledge that the star advertiser recently has had to lay some people off because of the shrinking ad picture that they're having I won't I won't soft-pedal that that's a difficult challenge going forward there's no guarantee that an organization like civil beat will be around but the nonprofit model that we are now following ones that other mainland groups are doing as well media organizations suggest a path that might be winnable to keep good journalism coming into well coming into your computer I guess if not your doorstep well it is the jury out yet on whether or not the internet will make a difference I know I date myself with that very question there's no question that the internet has made all the difference in the world and we are a different world because of it sometimes for the better a lot of times for the worse this is a moving target we don't know where this is going to shake out nobody has really quite figured out how to keep journalism really sustainable but a lot of good people are trying to do that and there's the need the recognition that we simply must have it or we're not going to be a proper democracy what should an individual do if he or she wants to grow up and become a chad layer grow up and get into professional journalism you know I don't know that I would advise trying to go into journalism right now as a field because it's so challenging but you see the young kids that are coming up today you see them at school in the classrooms we've had a number of interns that have done very well for us at civil beef I've actually been encouraged kind of excited to see that there's this hunger that I felt when I was growing up and as a paper boy Red Woodward and Bernstein and still remember the August night 1974 headline of my local newspaper Nixon quits and how much of an impact that made on me and that's exciting to think that they want to get into this profession even while there's doubt about whether they're going to be able to get paid well maybe the icon today is no longer Woodward and Bernstein it's a it's Snowden great to have you on board Chad thanks Kelly thanks a lot my guest today Chad Blair of civil beat everybody knows who he is and so I hope you've gotten to know him a little bit more today journalism plays such a vital role in preserving democracy we've got to do everything we can to call for the highest standards I'm Kaley Akina with the grassroot Institute until next week on a Hanukako we say aloha from think tecawai bye bye that was good very well done if it doesn't work out consider doing it