 Welcome to JSA TV Europe together with the greener data movement for this quarters live event focus on closing the digital divide with additional infrastructure Deployments. I'm Jean-Marie Lim and joining me today is John running general manager for the Norwegian data center industry and join. Welcome to to JSA You're taking a few days away from from the capital from Oslo, but I thank you for making the effort for being with us Yeah, and thank you for having me on your show You are one and good. Good afternoon and good morning to all the viewers. Yes So so actually that's that's I'm really harvesting the benefits of Norway having such a good broadband Fiber and fiber based broadband so I can basically have my office anywhere I want so now I'm in a small coastal coastal village a couple of hours south of Oslo Enjoying access to the same services as I have access to in downtown Oslo The reliable network and probably one of the greenest on the continent as well Going into this topic that we're here to discuss so the digital divide, which is quite a serious topic And we often don't talk too much about it in the data center space How would you categorize or describe the digital divide that's being felt in the Nordics? Maybe compared to why the Europe if you could earn a view of Europe as well But just give you a view of the digital divide in the version that you oversee Yeah, absolutely. So So I I would think that I would say put it this way that the Nordic countries they have appreciated access to To high capacity broadband as an enabler for digital services and and the broader offering To to to the broader public If you if you go down to to to the continental Europe We think starts to get better But I think fiber penetration you could see for many many decades almost that the Nordic countries was On the top tier levels on on on percentage on on fiber penetration We see now that there is a huge interest in Among investors to to deploy fiber based broadband in Germany in the UK and and so forth And I think that's probably The single most important issue to to to cover in terms of bridging the digital divide But but certainly you have you have you have divides on several other levels as well. You have the quality the age Divide where elderly people are struggling to keep pace with the rapid Evolument in in digital services and and particularly If you look at banking services and everything so the banks now have Basically Decommissioned all the old old school paper based checking Opportunities so so now people really have to go to a bank to to a bank office And you know the bank office there. They are also human farm between So So so basically that I think that compared If you compare nor the Nordics to the rest of Europe, you're still having I mean having a top position a poor position in that perspective, but to see that other countries are really Keeping pace It's a race. Everyone is trying to get to the to the finish line as quickly as possible Rightly so, but it is it is hard to get there. Yeah Uh, sorry No, and I also I would just talk a little bit about What why has this been a success in in in the Nordic countries and and particularly I can talk for Norway because I know this market very well and Norway is a very Called it a rural area. There are a few few big cities and there are a lot of people living in the outskirts Where it's extremely expensive to deploy especially fiber and also mobile broadband like type 5g, but you know They found the the players in this perspective. That means the the local governments the national governments and the local community They found ways to source money like everybody checked in their part So that suddenly made the whole project commercially viable for the operator And I think that you need to be creative in ways to to engage also the population that and the inhabitants to Because they know they know what they are missing and they really want it I I think and without wanting to go too off topic here. You've actually touched on a very crucially important topic also Dominating the discussions in industry, which is the the wider public's education towards what these facilities do because we we have seen a lot of We've seen protests against there's in the projects within projects being held back But what you just say is that you know if people seem to understand what these big houses do for them Well, I I think that just to to For avoidance or any doubt. I'm talking about broadband deployment now Intercenters data centers is a totally different thing Yeah Thank you Basically back on on on the same page and and what we see What we see is a mixture of the nimby phenomenon like not in my backyard. We all love New digital technologies, but please don't don't construct them in my backyard. We don't want them And they gobble all the power That we could use for my for more call it for more valuable purposes Um, and also we see the governments they are they are not so much Putting regulations in the way, but but there's still a lot of regulations that need to to come in to be east to to spur more more More construction progress, but I think that the key factor here as well is access to renewable power Which is basically becoming a limited the source And for the Nordics has for many years. We had had such big surpluses of over renewable Green power, but now it's it's really shrinking and that's mainly because we have had many competitors in the green in the green industry and the green economy like hydrogen ammonium battery factories Gigabitories of any any sort So so we're really seeing We're battling with the rest of the industry to to take our and keep our positions This question and actually there's segues as into the next question around um economic barriers to deployment What because of course the Nordics have a very good use case on how to attract These infrastructure investments the government has stepped up very fast compared to to To central western south europe What would you say are still some of the economic barriers within the Nordics or specifically towards Norway as well In terms of attracting more foreign direct investment I I would say it's not so much an economic barrier I think it's a more and a perception of the Nordics that we We still haven't got the same perception as an attractive market as for instance the flap market Um, we see that these markets are are they're getting overcrowded. So I think that we will see It will Slowly but surely it will it will trickle up to the Nordic countries because It is favorable to establish data centers there. It's uh, it's from a sustainability perspective And also, I think it's a myth that everything in the Nordics Is more expensive than you see in the continental europe. I I think that you're basically on par Both with cost of labor and also cost of construction and and things like that Yeah, you were saying that that was the thing of the costs of doing things in the uk right now So it's probably the same if not more To slide it in economies though But so and then beyond of course the construction And deployment of infrastructure the broadband or data centers. What else is nor we doing to to help close the digital divide? So you've already mentioned you've got quite a well educated population towards what some of these assets assets do for them But what more is on the table? Yeah, so so what we are really Expecting and I'm curious to see what's going to play out within the next year is that the the Norwegian government They have a lot of things on the on the on the plates. They are going to launch a new National data center strategy That would point the direction for where the government wants the data center industry to to evolve for Do you know when do you know when that's coming out? No, unfortunately They said it was kind of you know It's they said it would be before before the summer, but somebody wisely asked which summer So so let's see. Let's I hope that within the the next quarter It will be it will be launched and also They are imposing regulations that the government is imposing regulations on the data center industry But that's more of an acknowledgement. That's this is a critical industry and they need to regulate it then you can't have this like a Uncontrolled play all over because it's basically becoming more and more critical for society And also they they are the The the national government is also calling educating the local governments to see the benefits of having that center's constructions on on their territory and in their local communities So all in all it's it is good I was just going to ask when you speak As the GM of the Norwegian data center industry when you speak to to other colleagues in other countries In the Nordics or not. So another data center associations. Do they share the same the same worries the same ideas Yeah, I think that we share more than 90 percent of of the common challenges And I think that if you look at the most prominent Challenges that we're facing now. It's and it's really to understand the energy efficiency directive because from June next year All the data center codo codo data centers operators Clients in the data centers has to report on climate parameters and kpi is related to that and It's still in the making so so we're really struggling to see how the how this how this is going to Play out because it's a complicated value chain If you look at the the data center infrastructure the the operators the clients And and the applications That's going to be It's kind of going to be a big challenge to compare apples to apples and not apples to other exotic fruits It is definitely becoming more of a complex ecosystem Of many of the little things that need to come together from the service to the application to the infrastructure to the investor And of course the regulatory side, which is it's starting to play a bigger and bigger role And as you said it can become confusing very quickly. There's a lot of jargon around It's it's so actually that on the 29th of June we are hosting a seminar for the nordic countries on How how this how we in the nordic countries should respond because you know that the norway is but It's not a part of the eu But we are very much Daring to the The current regulations of eu so i'm i'm taking it for granted that the same Regulations that will be imposed on eu members will be imposed by the norwegian government on our industry So i like question. Have you had the uk colleagues reaching out asking what to do? My channel is open I'm sure they'll be reaching out a lot As we tried to navigate What's what's happened and then of course i mean so i mean we like to close this Do these kind of conversations as well looking at what you're doing? On a day-to-day basis to help In this case close close the digital divide and bring down economic barriers So what are you and the norwegian that is in the industry beyond hosting for example that session On the 29th, uh, what why are you guys doing? So we're you're doing several things. We are Promoting norway as a favorable business friendly the country to to establish your Data centers and attract foreign investments and and also we are trying to we are helping the existing industry to to have as favorable business conditions and terms and conditions as as possible and also to To fight for a stable and predictable regulatory landscape, which is probably One of the biggest worries to investors How stable is this country or or the nordic as a whole? So so so that's why it's important that we have built this Good relation with the governments the the various governmental bodies so we can Don't get taken by surprise By somebody eager to impose some regulations Yeah, I don't think we need more surprises We need we need more certainty than surprises You need good news Yes, yes, we are desperate for good news in this day and age But uh, john, thank you so much for your time It is quite good to know what's going on in norway and then of course to the why the norwegian Yeah, we've been ahead of the game. Yeah, absolutely anytime So thank you so much for coming on and then thank you for watching and joining us today for jsa tv live Don't forget to check our social channels for more content and until next time happy networking Bye