 And we are recording. Great. Welcome everybody. Um, so. First agenda item is to review. And vote on the minutes. Um, do people want me to pull it up or do they have them open on their screen? Everybody. Okay. Any comments on that? The minutes or folks. Um, Well, first, actually, who, who's the next minute person? I think it's you, Laura, unless you are exempt in which case it's me. I have been making myself exempt. So it's you. And, and. Okay, I can do it. Okay. Thanks, Darcy. There's no comments. Does anyone want to motion to accept the minutes? I moved to accept. Stephanie, do you want to go? Sure. So I'll just do a roll call. So just make sure you want to mute yourself. Um, to vote, please. I'm just going to go in order of my screen. So Der. Drucker. Yes. Selman. Yes. DuMont. Yes. Yes. Ravi Kumar. Yes. Rose. And roof. Yes. All right. They pass. All right. So next up is public comment. Do we have anybody? We don't have anyone here at this time. Okay. Great. So then we'll move on to staff update. Sure. So, um, It's been a bit of a crazy week. So, um, Working on the brick grant that's moving along. Um, you know, the things that I've been primarily working on CCA effort is moving along. One thing I wanted to, um, Mention that I didn't at the last meeting was that the NEMS network. Meeting, uh, was very much focused on resilience hubs. And it's something that I've been, um, Interested in, but didn't know a whole lot about. Um, But something that I think would be really interesting for the town to explore. And resilience hubs are. They're, they're not exactly emergency shelters. They're kind of like even more expanded than an emergency shelter. And they're more than a community center. They're kind of like a. A meeting of those, those things, uh, kind of in, in one place, or they can be in several locations within a community, but they address the needs of people in the community. Um, And they're really, um, They're, um, Designed by the members of the community really based on what the needs are. And, um, in some ways, they're sort of a direct reference to climate change in that. They serve a need when there are, um, Extended power outages or even, um, Even just sort of basic community services that are generally needed by people. Um, so. It's, it's kind of a, like I said, it's kind of like an emergency shelter meets a community center meets the survival center kind of all rolled up in, into sort of one location. Um, the idea in what peaks my interest is that, you know, providing a space that could potentially be powered by solar with battery storage so that it could sort of isolate in times of some kind of long-term power outages if needed. And that it would be a place, um, That could serve the community and, you know, we have a few locations in town. That could potentially serve that need, but this is just an idea that's just brewing. Um, it's something I thought you all would be interested in. Um, I'm sort of having a few preliminary conversations with some folks, but it's not gone farther than that. So I did want to share that with you though. And I think, um, Once I have a few more conversations, hopefully it's something I can bring back to you all, but just, uh, something that I think. Especially given the work that we've recently done with community members. Um, That really identifies a need with an Amherst to, to address. Folks needs in the community that aren't necessarily being met, even with the wonderful services and the organizations that we do have. Um, you know, there's more that could probably be done and provided. I'm thinking of things just like transportation to the market. You know, maybe there's a center that could provide some vans or van service that would bring, you know, that would sort of run trips to the local grocery stores and would. Something that could be, um, Maybe make trips to each of the housing complexes and, and that would be something that sort of is housed as part of the community center. So it's just really, um, an opportunity for the community to really brainstorm and think about what could really serve the town. So I just wanted to. Share that with you all. Um, other than that, Stephanie, just one question. Have you been in conversation with Michael Williamson, who coordinates the CERT, the C-E-R-T. Thing in Amherst. No, I don't. I have it. It's, it's a town thing. It's citizens. Our community emergency response team. I believe that's the acronym. They are trained, um, partly through, uh, some FEMA grants in the fire department, but designed to sort of go out and, and help with either emergencies or in some case, traffic control for town events. Oh. Yeah, I do know about them. I know someone who was, who was actually on the ag com is affiliated with them. So. Yeah. So, and I think actually, I do think I've talked to Mike, um, several years ago, but. I could, I would definitely pursue, uh, speaking with him. The thing about the resilience hubs, that's a little bit different is it's not, you know, the town has an emergency response plan, but this is something that goes kind of above and beyond that. And it's kind of a, more of a 24 seven, um, service. And it's not something necessarily that the town itself provides, but the town could partner with other agencies that do provide those services. And we could find a way to make them more accessible, um, you know, and to serve the needs of the community. And I don't want to be presumptive and say, you know, what those things would be. I just threw out a few potential ideas based on things I've heard, but it really is something that the community would work on. And there are several towns that are developing resilience hubs in North Hampton is one of them. North Hampton is partnering with community action. And they, what the, what the city is responsible for is providing the location, the building location to house, uh, you know, house this work, but community action is actually the ones that are going to be sort of leading, um, what that will, you know, the response to the community and what that will look like. And they'll kind of do more of the operations. So I just think there's, you know, there are some pieces in Amherst that exist that, you know, might be able to sort of work together. Um, that could, you know, really expand efforts and, and really better meet the needs of people within the community. So, um, just putting in that out there, I think there's a lot of good things that are happening. I just think it's, you know, would be great if we found a way to, to go even that much further. So, um, I think that's kind of what. You know, the idea of resiliency hubs are, that's kind of a spirit behind them. And some of you may already know about them or may know more than I do, but, um, you know, I think that's, you know, I think that's, you know, I think that's, you know, I just wanted to share that that was really the focus of the last NEMS network group. Okay. Great. Thanks, Stephanie. Any eCAC member updates? Yes, Darcy. Um, I just have a couple of things. One is that, um, the, I just heard that the CRC, the community resource committee of the town council is, um, um, submitting a, um, some kind of memo in the packet on Saturday for the Monday meeting, which has to do with zoning bylaws. And they're going to divide them up according to what, um, what they want, what changes that they are going to be looking at. For the immediate future, you know, they're going to divide them up according to what they're going to be looking at and what changes. So, um, um, we're being, I think. Asked to weigh in. As we go. And I'm just, uh, did we, we sent the letter, the, the letter that Andrew wrote, correct. About zoning. Oh, can you hear me? Uh, you know, I have to make sure that I sent it. I'm going to send it away. Okay. Um, this is sort of, uh, you actually, if you haven't sent it, you might want to wait until you see what. The Saturday memo says. Really? Because. Well, I don't know. I guess, I guess we should send that now. And, uh, but basically the memo that we're sending says. Um, this is going to be a long-term process and we want to be. Involved as it evolves. And so this seems to be the beginning of when we could be involved of starting. When this memo comes out. Um, because they're, I think they're going to be, they're going to have some specific proposals in there. Um, So, um, Um, I think that's, um, You know, if we want to make any proposals about the, the exceptions to the zero energy bylaw with regard to the library and, and with regard to renovations. This might be the time to do it. I. Maybe post budget post whatever we're doing around the budget. Um, That's just another issue out there because of, you know, the fact that zero energy bylaws can be relevant to upcoming, um, upcoming requests about the capital budget projects. Okay. So it sounds like, um, Um, I think we're going to be doing that. Um, And we will maybe put the memo from the, um, Zoning in our packet for next time. Did you have other updates, Darcy? I know you sit around the pace. Email. Um, yeah, I, um, Um, The, um, The building task group, uh, Was looking at that because it seemed like it was a really great possibility and that, that, um, That maybe we could recommend that Amherst join. Um, I don't know if Stephanie has an opinion about that, but, um, Um, I just heard yesterday that Montague is joined. Um, And, um, Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's going to come up in the, um, In the community choice aggregation. Um, Meetings coming up too. Uh, as a possible, you know, Projects within the three communities that are involved in the CCA. Um, Andra might be able to, um, It's a, you know, Energy, energy efficiency opportunities for landlords of multi unit apartments, Which might be very much of interest to us as far as, you know, Really targeting low income communities. All right. I missed what the, um, Who was offering that. Darcy Ford is all an email about it on the 28th. Um, It's a Massachusetts mass development and mass DER. Program. It's, if I had to summarize it, it looks like it's kind of like mass save, but for commercial and industry, Industrial buildings, multifamily properties. And nonprofit building buildings owned by nonprofits. Yeah, Jim. I read out quickie. Uh, so pace stands for property assessed clean energy. And the concept is that you can apply for loans. For commercial properties. You can't do it in residential properties right now in Massachusetts. Long-term loans that are tied to the property that get paid through your utility bill or your tax bill. And so it doesn't show up as a balance sheet item. But it does show up as a balance sheet item. So it's a great way to participate. Municipalities have to opt in in some way, which I don't fully understand with mass development who is administering the program. I think that's sort of, sort of a deal. I've got a sort of slightly revised system now that allows a few extra things. Also something that is in the outline. Yeah. And in generally it's actually. It's a great system. So it's really solid. Yeah. Do you know anything about, have there been conversations about Amherst opting in? Um, not beyond me with a few select individuals, but nothing, um, Not a concerted effort. Um, but I totally think it's something we should do. If you recall, I think there was a concern Darcy that, um, you know, I think the concern was that it could potentially lead to gas, um, more gas development, but we have a moratorium. So. I think that doesn't really apply to us anyway. So, um, No, I'm, I'm totally in support. I think it's something we should probably should do. So, but I think you all sort of making that recommendation. Would allow me to hopefully go forward. Yeah. Um, I don't know why we have to make things so complicated. Um, Okay. So. Anybody. You know, sort of follow through. So yeah. So it looks like, um, It says individual municipalities may opt into pace by a major majority vote of the city or town council or the board of selection. So it sounds like we need to. Put it to the council, right? But that goes through the town manager. Okay. Um, I don't know why we have to make things so complicated. Yeah. So. Anybody see a reason why we shouldn't opt into this program. I move that we ask Stephanie to opt into the program. Okay. I would, I would agree. It's, it's, uh, we shouldn't leave this on the table. Okay. Okay. Should I do a quick vote? Cause it seemed to be a motion. Sure. Okay. So Der. Yes. Dr. Yes. Selman. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. All right. Wow. That was good. Thanks for bringing that to our attention. Darcy. That actually was, uh, yeah, me and initially, but thank you Laura for remembering it. Um, and, um, it. What, what was that motion? Exactly. The, the motion was to, um, make a recommendation that the town, um, participate in the PACE program. Okay. So that means it could. It would be something that could go to the town manager and the town council when, because it'll probably have to go through both. Yes. Uh-huh. Okay. I mean, I think it's one of those things where I would. You know, I can bring it to the attention of the town manager. And you all could quickly pen something. It doesn't have to be anything extensive. Just. Pen something stating that you would like to see the town. Pursue the, you know, participation in the program. Um, and that you. But you would address that to the council. So. Okay. So we need, we need that. Proposal. Okay. Any other updates from any, anybody. So next is Linnean discussion of. Carp outline framework plan development. Right. I go first Jim, or should I. Yeah. Why don't you, why don't you jump in Lauren? Uh, we've got a couple of different things. Uh, which you should have in front of you. Um, so go for everyone. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Um, So, yeah, we were not entirely sure if we were going to be here today or not. So sorry for the delay. At the last minute. Ness of those documents. Um, So basically. The last draft of the, uh, plan was sent around. Beginning of November. Um, and I sent it around in a bit of a hurry before leaving on my trip. So, um, So, um, When Stephanie mentioned that there were some questions about the, um, Second version of the outline and how we had addressed folks comments. I thought it would just be better to go back through and respond individually to everyone's comments. And then to in the process, send an updated outline with anything that I've missed. So hopefully these two documents together address everyone's comments and concerns. Um, So, um, The initial round of the, uh, Of the document, I'm happy to answer any specific questions. Um, If there are any that you don't see addressed in that document, I sorted them by each commenters name. So you should see all of your comments, each comment in a, An individual line and then the response next to it. Um, And I think, um, Um, One thing that we were asked to sort of specifically address was the idea of, um, Where in the plan there'll be a roadmap of actions leading to the 25% reduction landmark by 2025. Um, So Jim was going to speak to that a little bit, but I'll just say that high level and we have included it as sort of its own section before we launch into the individual, Um, Sectors and the thought is that we'll have sort of a, Maybe two page overview of what the major actions are that will lead to that 25% reduction. And then point people to the pages where they can read more about those strategies in depth in the, um, The following sectors, uh, Sector sections. Um, So Jim's going to talk a little bit about what that can look like. And, um, in the meantime, Feel free to take a look through those documents. Um, And send me, Or send Stephanie an email of any, um, Further questions you might have. Yeah. And if you have any questions now or any thoughts about any of that. Definitely. I can totally jump into it. Uh, I learned it a pretty thorough job sort of all the way along. It did a pretty thorough job sort of going through the comments and figuring out where they, where they fit. And there are a couple of cases where things either there were a couple of cases where comments sort of pushed in opposite directions. And so some work to resolve that. And then a couple of spots where, which, you know, totally makes sense. Um, And a couple of spots where there are some things that came up in the comments and I can't think of them off the top of my head, but I can probably look it up over talking. Um, I can probably look it up over the top of my head. Um, I can probably look it up over the top of my head. Where, uh, There was some thought about how to do the thing that the comment is talking about probably a little differently than what you're suggesting in the comment. But all of the comments were great. Uh, and really, uh, Thoughtful worked their way through the diet. The outline was awesome. The line is much better. Uh, And, um, And probably the, the big thing. Uh, The big thing is, uh, This idea of explicitly right up front talking about. Uh, Uh, The sort of short term actions to get to the 2025 goals. Um, And I, that, um, You know, It was always sort of part of the process, but making it really super explicit right up front, I think is really a great move. Um, Um, Uh, So there are a couple of things that we are considering as items that really, Really do that. Uh, And, um, as we start to flesh them out, uh, Um, you know, then we'll have an opportunity to look at them, You know, I'm pretty soon and, and we can sort of think about the particulars of them. Uh, But, um, you know, Um, Obviously, uh, Adoption of the CCA and whatever form and name and structure it is, Is going to be a major, uh, piece of that milestone. Um, and it'd be very interesting to get a sense from the CCA committee. What the expectation is, uh, What, what you're sort of what the vision of or what you're working Sort of hypothesis of where that actually gets in, in the five years. Um, Uh, so CCA is a big one. Uh, a second big one is going to be, uh, something, uh, around a, Just some kind of disclosure benchmarking, uh, ordinance, uh, For the, you know, probably. I'm guessing for Amherst, It's probably things over 10 or 15,000 square feet, Which probably takes up everything that is not single family houses, Essentially. Um, And that'll be a big one. And we have some pretty good examples of What that gets you, uh, in terms of reduction. Um, but also it sets up for some nice long-term activity. Uh, you had a question. Yeah, Darcy. Um, could you just explain that a little more, What you mean by a disclosure ordinance? And are you referring to new construction over. How big. 10,000 square feet is sort of likely. I won't land on that, but that's sort of the likely. Choice that Jesse probably has some thought about that. Um, Uh, And what do you mean by disclosure ordinance? So, uh, there's a process that a number of municipalities have gone through. Uh, In which, uh, There, The municipality requires any building over a certain scale. And the reason they, they use a cutoff is because there's not, You know, All kinds of buildings that really sort of makes no sense for. Um, And, uh, Over that scale, Buildings have to. Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Report. Uh, to municipality. Uh, The, Their energy use and water use. At on an annual basis. Um, That's not new construction. That's all. That's not new construction. That's all. That's an all bill at Portland, Oregon. I think is a pretty good one. That's fairly recently. I don't know how it's gone, but. I just want to. Command this bag. It's got teeth. I like it. No, I think it's good. It covers all buildings. It's not just new buildings. And. And what it said, generally the way it works is that New York City has done this very successfully, but of course, New York City is New York City. But the way it works is. The first step is everybody has to report. And usually you do it through a mechanism like energy star or something like that. You do it through a mechanism that allows that and structures it. So it's all the same and everybody knows how to use it or at least can figure out how to use it. The second step is that you do some analysis on what that looks like. The third step is that you then start requiring. People to buildings to hit. Certain targets and either the targets are. You can decide on what the targets are. And there's a number of great options. So it starts as information. And then slowly moves toward. Actually driving. You know, the existing energy used down. So that's one. It's a, it's a pretty well tried process. It's a little. It's a little bit small for this. But I think it's a great opportunity to really. Figure out how to do it in a smaller municipality. And have it be effective. And that would be, that would be sort of an interesting leadership role for their time to take. And. Sort of along those same lines comes a benchmarking. And I think that's one of the things that's really important. And I think it's a great process where. For. For. Municipal buildings to set some benchmarks and. And try and hit those benchmarks. We already have the town already has a net zero ordinance. Which applies to new buildings, although I don't fully understand that. I have to understand that a little better. But. So the town could establish a benchmark. A set of benchmarks for existing town buildings. And so it sort of goes with the reporting process. Where you have to sort of do that and you report and the town has to report and. You know, all those things sort of go together. So that's a second one. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think there's going to be a. Electric car infrastructure. And there's clearly going to have to be a. A process for developing electric car infrastructure. I think a probably. Probably the fourth one, which I think is probably. The most effective. Sort of overall. Especially if. The next step is. And in a lot of ways, these kind of all go together where it's about. Greening up the energy supply, switching everybody to electricity. And. And then reducing that electricity demand so that a green supply. Can better handle it. And so the fourth one is. I think it's going to be a little bit harder. I think it's going to be a little bit harder. I think it's going to be a little bit harder for residential buildings. For energy efficiency upgrades. And that's. Harder, but I think. Also because. Sort of just from what we've seen and what we're starting to understand. From the housing stock and from some of the folks we spoke to, plus the, the. Task group process. And then we're going to have to do that. So. Short term. Before the full greening of the grid happens to. Really reduce overall. Energy use and greenhouse gas emissions. For the town. So those four things are sort of obvious. They come right up. Yeah. How is. Four different from two. Two is just about reporting. And one of the things that, that. Makes. Building owners have to comply with some. Some targets. Two is a, is a pro is a more active process, more like mass save. It's a more active process to go out. Work with building owners to really make, you know, set up loan processes where pace could be super useful. So that. Buildings can. Actively go out and upgrade before they're required to. That's sort of different actions. But the buildings in four would also be required to do too. Right. Well, nobody would necessarily. Everybody would be required to do too. Yes, exactly. Sorry. I thought you were saying the other way. Sorry. Yes, correct. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that we see is like, okay, we've seen a bunch of these. We've looked at a bunch of them. They fit what's going on in the town. There are many of them are already in action. And it's a matter of like strengthening that action. And giving it more teeth. And. They don't. This is sort of a funny one. They don't necessarily cost money except for the last. You know, the electric infrastructure. Or at least some funding to do. But the ordinance, it'll cost some in staff time for sure. The, you know, the CCA is already in action. There's obviously costs associated with that, but it's, it's sort of not like, Oh, we're going to have a big. Capital campaign to do this. So in that way, it's also, these are actions that can happen quickly. And I think those are, that's our current thinking. I think there are probably likely to be a couple more. That emerge as we, as we're sifting through the material. And Lauren, do you have anything that. You might add to that. Well, I don't know, Jim, if you want me to jump in on this, but the, the sort of residential disclosure element as well. Which is related to the concept of a benchmarking and disclosure ordinance, but. And I think that there are programs that exist to require, for instance, landlords and homeowners who are selling their homes to disclose the energy efficiency of either the unit that they're renting or the home that they're selling. So that prospective renters or buyers are aware of the full costs associated with either renting or owning that home. And it's sort of. The intention is that it's a market driven mechanism that encourages landlords or property owners to make investments in those areas before they go to rent or sell their homes. So that's another one that. We're looking at in terms of both the sort of equity side of things, giving people the full picture of the affordability of a unit or a home. And then also the potential green house gas emissions reductions associated with the incentive to reduce or to increase energy efficiency so that you're more likely to rent or sell your, your home. That's another. That's a great reminder. I was not thinking. I'm sort of forgotten about that. Okay. I had a question. And Jim, maybe this is wrapped into number four. But something that I don't see us calling out specifically in the outline, although I may have missed it. Is the heating. I'm. Meaning, you know, how are we going to transition our thermal. Thermal loads in our buildings away from oil and natural gas. And to me, that feels. Like something we need to call it specifically because whereas. Renewable electricity is more of a systems. You know, you know, you know, individual homes and individual buildings or heating systems are much more. Individual. And it seems like something that, that we would maybe need to, to do. More work on somehow. Yeah, I think that's a great thought. And. Yeah. It's sort of an interesting situation that we've seen where a lot of the multifamily buildings actually are all electric. Just kind of cool. I mean, it's a little nutty, but it's kind of cool. And. And so there's an opportunity to work with that as a structure to work with that. I mean, I mean, there's actually no single family houses are, are all electric. I mean, it's like, you know, a few. Yeah. Right. One of your, maybe Dwayne has one. I don't remember one of you has talked about having an electric house. You're cold. Well, there's a lot of electric houses, all electric houses that were built in the 70s with technology, but I don't know. Yeah. Well, I mean, it turns out oddly, it turns out it is. It's just. You need to upgrade this in a different way. I just wanted to add. To Laura's larger point, I think you're right, but there is an opportunity to sort of call that out more specifically in terms of the, the system shift that's needed away from oil and gas. So, to Steve's point about sort of buildings that were built in the 70s that are already electrified, I think one, one strategy that we do have in there already that does kind of try to get at this is the idea of a heat pump campaign similar to a solarized campaign that does a bulk buy program for air source heat pumps to transition some of those less efficient systems to more efficient systems. So that is in there, but I think that's a good point. I think that makes a lot of sense as sort of an overarching. Sort of the, and that's kind of, we sort of talked about sort of what's, what were the sort of key, the sort of overall purpose and key principles of the process. And you know, one of them is heavy decarbonization. And one of them is improved quality of life. And those go hand in hand. I just wanted to say too that I, I see that last point too, about like a heat pump campaign is something very central to the CCA effort. You know, I think that's going to be a part of that. Yeah. These things are very, very linked, which is also. I think one of the great strengths of it's, we see it. We're seeing it again and again as we start to dive deeper into the strategies that. That the strategies for four amours, the strategies are all very linked and very supportive of each other. Which is useful. It creates a kind of a. An overall momentum. Which is pretty great. I think it really nicely embodies the idea that came out of the task groups that there needs to be something in this plan for everyone. But maybe that's just me. Get something for Jesse at least. These, these strategies sound really exciting. And they, they're getting down to a level of detail that I've been really looking for. They're still sort of teasers there. How can we learn more about them? Can you provide us with examples like Jesse mentioned Portland, Oregon has. An existing. I'm sorry. It's Portland, Maine is what I meant to say. I misspoke and I can send you a link to the ordinance. Well, that might be in the climate action plan from Maine that we just got from you guys. Yeah. Well, my suggestion is you take a look at the climate action plan from Maine because it. It is. Pretty detailed. It has. It's got. Sort of three qualities that I think you're going to find interesting. And, you know, keep in mind that that was a big project. But. And it has a lot of stuff in it. I don't think we're going to want to have as much stuff in this situation. We're going to keep it focused because. The things that are really going to make a difference. And then we can really do. I think are really kind of what we're talking about. But one of the qualities of that, of that plan is that. There's very specific detail about what each thing is. And so you can look and say, okay, well, they're talking about disclosure. What the heck is that? Described with his social ordinances and how it fits into the current town. You know, remember it's Portland and South Portland. So it's. Portland has the disclosure thing and South Portland doesn't. So, you know, talk about that difference. The second is that. All of those actions were heavily worked through city staff. And so the knowledge of what they're already doing and how they're doing is very baked into how that. Each one of those is. Talk about, and that is well worth sort of keeping an eye on. They're being very aggressive. But. They also, it's very much a. It. It's. It's not, nobody is going to be surprised in the city. They've all already bought into it. And then the third is that. It's got pretty clear. Implementation partners laid out. And. And it, you know, fits a lot of the sort of principles and way that. Amherst is thinking, but, but it also is very clear about, okay, well it's going to take this and it's going to take this and it's going to take this. And those are all useful. Ways to understand how to put together strategies that will be valuable. As you move forward. And so I recommend you to sort of take, take, find the ones, the parts you like, because there's an awful lot of it. And find the parts you're interested in. And it's, I think it is quite illustrative. Of how we might attack. The specific strategies we're talking about. Yeah. So first of all, thank you so much for your incredibly detailed comments on. All of our comments. Your replies were really thorough. And the outline, I think looks really good. A lot of ways right now. I'm really excited to see the actual. Plan when it's, when it's ready. Just about Maine. It looks like this might be a small question, but maybe it's a big question. I haven't looked at the report very thoroughly. It's very long, but. So in Maine, it looks like. I think that's correct. I think that's correct. I think that's correct. I think that's correct. I think that's correct. I think that's correct. I think that's correct. Their commitments. Basically start in 20, 40. And then they have other commitments. Like me, municipal commitments by 20, 40, and then. Community wide commitments by 2050 is what it looks like. I think that's correct. Yeah. Here we have 20, 30 commitments. And I'm just wondering. Like qualitatively. How does that 10 year difference affect what our plan is going to look like compared to this plan? I think that was why I was sort of thinking about those particular items that I talked about earlier. That are sort of fast off the mark. Things that can have a appreciable difference. And then set up further activity. And I think that's sort of, it's a much more urgent process here in. In Amherst that, that, you know, your goals are much faster. You're being much more aggressive. And yeah, I mean, keep in mind. The main, you know, suffered under an interesting. Administration that really put the k-bosh on that sort of thing up and talk quite recently. So they're kind of making up for lost time. But. I think that's a big part of it. And. And also. I. I think that the. There's, there's one other thing, which we haven't really talked about here. And that is. That. That because of the sort of large presence of the. The colleges and universities. They will play a part in this as well. And, and so. I think that's a big part of it. I think that's a big part of it. I think that's a big part of it. I think that's a big part of it. I think that's a big part of it. I think that we could meet the commitments with the things we've outlined and maybe a couple more. For both. You know, 2025 and. 2030 is going to be an interesting trick to get to, you know. To get zero, but. But the, the institutions are really going to help. And I think that also is kind of a game changer in the process. Yeah. I think that's a big part of it. I think that's a big part of it. I think that's a big part of it. I think that's another category. And I love it is to follow it. I think I do appreciate, I like that we have our 20. 25. I think it's, we were smart to do it. If there was, I can picture a category that's kind of. Involves people or the sort of, what can I do? And even. And being able, because if, if someone reads the planet, it's not, I don't know if this is appealing to people, but like if every single house in this town turned their thermostat down a little bit, it would actually make a measurable difference. A lot. It's millions of square feet. We make a big difference. Like that kind of thing was sort of like what really drives down carbon in our actions. Or some way to reach out to the. Sort of the person like me who, who has a lot of agency. And I think that's a great thought. And I think that's a great thought. Who it has privilege. How do I leverage my privilege. To do something. Maybe that's great. You know, one of my favorite items in that thought is, is. Gardening. It's like. You can, you can change how you garden. And it will have an effect. And let me show you how much. But yes, I think that's a great thought. And that's a, I think there's. Yeah, I'm just, I think that's a great thought. And I think that's a great thought. I think that's a great thought. I think that's a great thought. I think that's a great thought. So. Go ahead. Jim. Yeah. It's, it's great that you bring that up. Just see two, because several other folks, and you'll see this if you look through all of the comments. Sort of raised that idea of ongoing. Sort of involvement in implementation of the plan. On going outreach and engagement on the part of the ECAC with the community around the goals of the plan and actions that you mentioned in there that have to do with sort of creating. Outreach campaigns or behavior change campaigns and things like that. But it's kind of interesting because maybe there's an opportunity within the plan. To sort of tee up those campaigns, you know, we don't have to wait exactly. And, and put items in like, like the, you know, turning off the lights, have a little call out box that says, you know, you can, you can start here. And then maybe when this campaign takes off, you get more involved. But, but yeah, I think that's a great idea. I want to second that Jesse's idea with the caveat that we don't want to lay on too much guilt on people. Feel like people have to change and not the system. And so big picture. Really the system needs to change, but there are a lot of things that people can do. And that list we want to be mindful of things that do cost money that some people might be able to implement and maybe save money in the long run, but also things that are basically cost free that, that someone with a low budget or without a garden space or that this or that could also participate in. So a whole range of these, I think it would be really great. I'd like to just the other side of that too. But I would also want to be careful to not, to also not suggest that while these actions are important. And make contributions that they're not done. This is not. This is, this is not sufficient to get to 2025 or 2030. But it's stuff that people can do it. No, we're, we're, we're low cost. Pretty much immediately. But there's much more that will be coming forward. Yeah. Yeah. And I would just add to that quickly. First, I mean, this report is beautiful. And it makes me want to go to Maine. Like right now. I'll tell Holly. She put a lot of work into it. But to Ashwin's point, I think that. And we, I know we have it in our outline. It's kind of towards the bottom, but I'd like us to be really. Really clear about the role policy needs to play and not just policy in our town, but policy in the state. And, and it would be really great if we almost had, and maybe it's not for this report. Maybe this report just teased that up, but like a list of policies that we should be. Mindy and Joe should be supporting that would support us and, and moving towards our goals. Because I think we've stated from the beginning that we can't. We have these goals because this is what science tells us we need to have, but we can't meet them on our own. And so just flagging that again. Yeah. And I think that's really important. And one of the things you'll see in that. In that the Portland, South Portland. Plan is that there's a very clear. Sort of delineation about things that are under the control of the cities, things that are under control of the region, like GP cogs, some of the transportation stuff. And then things that are under the control of the state and things that are under control of federal government. And some of the, you know, like things like Reggie compact, which is a bigger regional thing. And that even for things that are under control of the state or under control of the region, there are actions for the city to take. And which is exactly what you're talking about. And I think that model of thinking about who are the implementation partners here. Is this really something the state has to do, but we're going to help and push for it. Is it, you know, how does this work? And I think that's a key thing. And in fact, I would, one of the things that we have been thinking about is that that's, that's actually a pretty key role that the ECAC as a whole could play is to start helping us think about who the implementation partners are for a lot of these actions as we go along. And then, you know, I think one of the first things really live at the city or at the town, which of them live. And, you know, the, some regional entity. And which of them live at the state level. And then how do we get there? What is it that has to happen? Because I think that's a key part of what has to be said. Sort of been thinking about those. Identifying. Who are the allies who are the amplifiers and who are the champions who are, who is going to support your initiative, who's, who's going to help you out and who's going to be leading the charge. Also kind of who's the owner. Yes, definitely. So I have to start off with that. Yeah, I think I'll circle back for folks to continue to ask questions, but I think that does your, Jim, your point. Does lead to the other piece of our discussion last week that I think we'd like to discuss with you today, which is. I'm. You know, clearly there's a lot of work to be done on the outline that you all are working on. Are the, you know, writing the actual document, right? We actually have to remember it's an outline. That's not the report. So what is the most effective things that EECAC can be doing over the next month or two or three as, as. Sort of bringing these things together to have a final, a final plan you mentioned helping with implementation. Partners. And so, you know, I think that's one, but what are some of the other things that would be helpful to come from, from EECAC during this, these next few weeks. So there are a couple of really specific things that I think would be really extremely valuable. I'm one of them I mentioned earlier, which is sort of what are the assumptions around. CCA and CCA adoption. That the, that team is kind of working with. I realize that's a touchy subject and you don't want to land on anything. So it's not like we have to quote somebody and say, well, the CCA committee says this, we don't have to do that. But having some assumptions about how fast that's going to go, what level it's going to happen at would be really valuable. And I presume you, there is some of that there. And that would be really great to help us with. And so that kind of thing, there are a couple of things like that. Specifically around CCA assumptions. There are carbon. Assumptions that go with that. That would be great. And then also. Some of the base. Information around. What the. Like what the key policies are right now. And how, how are they actually implemented? Like the net zero. Ordinance. Like, okay, what is actually going on there? Where is it at? What some of the other things are actually happening that could help us to, to tailor. The strategies directly to. To, you know, what's actually happening in Amherst. And so that people don't read it and say, Oh, well, that's dumb. We're already doing that. Or, you know, we already decided not to do that or something like that, which happens all the time. Lauren, any other thoughts there. Yeah, maybe just building off of that. Thought about sort of local policies and Laura's earlier comment about sort of the. The desire to emphasize the state and federal level as well and sort of the CACs rule for advocacy there, I think, especially with the change in administration, we're going to be seeing a lot of new things coming up in the next few months and sort of keeping tabs on. Potential future policies that can be pushed for that maybe aren't even on the table yet, but especially because this group is many people in this group are steeped in sort of the policy and I think it would be great to have you all on board keeping tabs on those types of things so that we can make sure that when the plan is published, it's got the most cutting edge stuff in it. So this is kind of just a comment for the rest of my colleagues on the committee. When I look at this outline and look at ours, sort of where we are in our work and what our role in is, is in making this plan. I feel like I would love to start working soon on communications planning, organizing our community members to start pushing for its implementation locally and also around state policies that are going to be key for this. So I would love to just kind of put on the agenda, probably for our next meeting, kind of a step back strategy session about how we now take stock of this and do what I think we do a pretty good job of, which is that work of outreach and kind of political coalition building. So I think that's a really good idea. And I think it's a good idea to call for public comment about aspects of implementation once we have a better idea of what the priorities are and that kind of thing. And I'm sure you all have all other awesome ideas about that too. But I feel like that. In my mind, that is maybe what's next for us. So that's the first thing I would say. The second thing about the report, and this is kind of just a symbolic thing. And you've already done this, Jim and Lauren. To some degree. But in a lot of, you know, I think that would be a nice symbolic gesture to always put the kind of justice oriented one first in order rather than third or fifth. You know, for example, in building codes, we have. Or, you know, that there's a number of examples where I'm seeing here like, you know, support tenant organizing and tenants rights. You know, it's, it's fifth among equals, maybe make it first among equals, you know, just as a symbolic thing, you know, there's another place in renewable energy. I think that's a great thought. Thanks. Absolutely. These are in no particular order right now. They're just kind of however they fell in the spreadsheet. And so that was. Very good. Since they're in no particular order. Right. Well, then that makes it easy, right? Exactly. I mean, I think there's also, there is an order of perception. And we want that our perception to say something. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Definitely. Sarah. Yes. Does Portland have anything supplemental this to this 300 page. Of a document. I mean, I. It's beautiful, but. But that's a. Not very accessible. I mean, the language is technical and there's just a lot. So, you know, we've been floating ideas around what does ours look like. Yeah. What did, what did that look like for them in terms of rollout? I just have to laugh. It's like, oh my God, when we got to the end of this, you're kidding. So. Two things. One, that was the concept of the sort of initial, there is a kind of a summary that has the six big moves. That was sort of the idea there. But also I don't think. The Amherst plan wants to be the Portland plan. Right. Portland plan is a very different animal. It has some really great stuff in it, and you can dive into a bunch of great detail and that's fantastic. But I think our, our work here is about defining. The subset of really important things that'll really have a big impact. And then we're going to do a lot of, we're going to do a lot of, we're going to do a lot of, a lot of carbon impact and equity impact. And it's like, we start there and say, okay, it's a living thing. We're going to do more later. And try and don't try and be super comprehensive and cover everything, which that plan really kind of did. And, and we work hard. Again, that plan was really written for the city. And, you know, Portland has a Portland, South Portland have an interesting sort of sub constituency, which Amherst has some of, but it's, it's not quite the same, but there's a sub constituency of folks in Portland who are very technical, very, they want to see that, you know, these six things are in that plan and what and how they're spelled out. And so if you don't do that, you're going to hear a lot of grief. And so people were very aware of that as well. Again, we have a different goal here. And our goal is much more about something that's actionable that people can get behind that us was just talking about. It's like, we can start rallying people that had, it speaks to people. It's not a technical manual. And I think that's key. And yeah, we'll probably have some appendices with the whole bunch of technical stuff so that people who really want to get into it are going to be able to do that. And I think that's fine. But I don't think that's really where it's at. Does that make sense to you? Is that feel like the way it needs to be? Yeah, but Sarah, I think, um, sort of following up on that with, with Ashwin's point, I think that's another place where the ECAC can really start working. And, um, I know you've had specific interest in this for, from the beginning. So, um, I think this is something that we, you know, I think it's really important that we communicate this with our community. Yeah. And I think I had asked Lauren and Jim, just so my brain could categorize in our outline, kind of what a target page goal was, knowing that it will, you know, expand or decrease as we go. But that kind of helps me understand the depth that we're trying to dive into within each section. Yeah. I'm sorry we weren't able to attach page counts to the actions themselves yet. We're just mad there, but hopefully the rest is helpful as a starting point. Yeah. I guess I was just trying to think you're like, rewinding five pages from the town manager or half a paragraph, you know, and kind of like waiting things out a little bit, just to see where the meat of things were falling. Yeah. Yeah, we really did struggle with it in Portland about. Sort of that whole. Yeah. It really was, that was the genesis of the six big moves. And I think the six big moves things actually kind of works. And it's sort of understandable and it covers more than six things. It's sort of each one is slightly bigger, but it's sort of understandable. And, you know, that's, that's not a bad model in a situation where it's a. Complex scene. I mean, I, you know, I think we're doing some work in Boston and Cambridge and, you know, the amount of stuff you have to say is exorbitant. But it's a complex world and there's a lot of different players and they all got something to say. And, you know, it's like, you got to, you have to deal with it. We're, we've got a much better opportunity here. And partially because, and I think this is the genius of the easy AC is that. The scale of the town and the makeup of the town. Physically, the sort of land use and makeup of the town. These goals are reachable. And it's not going to be easy. It's not going to be painless, but it's reachable. Whereas, you know, if you're talking about Cambridge of Austin, it's like those goals. Who knows if you won't even know if you reach them. So I think that's actually a real opportunity. I'll say something. I'm going to say this. I'm going to make a comment out of school. Now you guys be good about sharing. Don't be saying the same as out of school. And that is that. I thought that was our opportunity in Northampton. And that what Northampton did not. And, you know, Wayne is a fabulous guy. Northampton kind of didn't grab it. And I thought that was sort of unfortunate. And I think that you guys are in a much better position to actually grab that opportunity. And to do something to set yourselves up to take a bunch of really great actions that have real meaning that, you know, have real effect. And that set the town on us really solid trajectory. And I think Wayne has come around and he's working hard to make it happen. And, you know, there's, he's, he's got a vision instead of how it's going to work. But it's not really a shared town vision at this point. And it kind of needs to be. So don't tell anybody I said that. Stephanie, don't tell Wayne I said that. I shouldn't put it in the notes. I have. I can't see you, but I have. Cause I'm looking at the minutes. I am a little confused. Because I, I see that these, these actions look really good. That you never posed. I'm a little confused partly because we didn't get all these meetings. We didn't have an hour or so before this meeting and that, you know, doesn't really allow us to. To, you know, really digest. What is in front of us. But anyway. I feel like. Are it makes sense to, I mean, we wanted to focus on the actions. We wanted to reduce the greenhouse gases by 25% by 2025. We're also still. Addressing those resilience issues that. We have expert advice about. And. Somehow or other this, our plan needs to address that. We're not just stopping at 2025. And there are actions that we need to do. To get us. Set up to do what we need to do after 2025. So it's not just like. The end at 2025. We, we need to be, it needs to be an evolving process. So. I'm hoping that whatever we're putting out. You know, is comprehensive and, and touches those things like when you say. We're not going, this isn't a plan that does everything. Well, I actually do see it as a plan that does everything. In the long run. So. And, you know, goes across all departments and that they should all be doing all these different things in the different sectors. So. Not, not that has to be done by 2025. But. That we're planning for. So. Somehow or other, you know, I'd like to hear about how that. Future planning is going to be addressed by either. You or us. So I. I think that's kind of the stages of. You know, sort of immediate action. And as well as calling out stuff to get to 2025. And then long-term actions that list of long-term actions in the outline is probably not very, it's not super filled out at this point. We're focusing more on shorter term actions to start with. But that's just. You know, where we've been at right now. So. What. I mean, you have specific thoughts now about what needs to be in there. We have, you know, plenty of other documentation as well. Darcy, do you have any thoughts about like, okay, when you're thinking about sort of, okay, well, longer term, what are the real long-term things? It's like, what do you have in mind? Yeah, I haven't, I'm, I'm assuming you're referring to one of the documents that. Is in the packet today. I haven't looked at any of the documents in the packet today. So, and I can't look at them now because I'm writing the minute. So I'm just, I'm just responding to. Cool. Our discussing these action, these. Six, five or six actions that you're talking that you're focusing on. Yeah. Well, and partially. We had been asked. To be very clear about what the. Immediate actions and effect of those actions was. So we're responding to that. But that doesn't mean we're not going to consider a longer term stop. Absolutely. Good. Great. So I'm looking at the time and I don't know. We probably want to try to transition to the annual report. So, is there any other questions. For the name. At this juncture, I think. Lauren, how would you prefer. To Darcy's point about, you know, Having a chance to look at the outline, if anybody does have any other comments after they've had a chance to digest it a bit more, how would you prefer that those get. To be sent to you. That's a good question. I think given the experience last time, I would prefer to. Have things. As consolidated as possible rather than. Commented directly in the document. It was just too many things to, to. Integrate in a streamlined way. So I would suggest focusing on any sort of bigger picture things that. That aren't sitting right with you, or if you, you know, you have overall comments. Because I think, you know, the. The key thing is that this is a. In evolution. Presently. So we can update and edit and change as we go. So if there are things that. Need changing, we can, you know, we can do that. At any point. So maybe. Maybe the committee could. Put the outline into a Google document and everyone just comment on one document. And that way I just have to look at the one document. That would be really helpful. Okay. That's, that's helpful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well, what I think, taking that. Feedback, what I'm going to suggest is that. If folks have general comments that they provide them, if they have specific comments, instead of putting them in the outline. Just write them note. The item in the number. So on item. Three B. I want to say this. And we'll compile all that with that work. Okay. So if folks want to just comment directly into one Google document, that's fine too. I think my first comment was assuming that everyone would be sending individual documents. And then I had the thought that maybe one Google document will just be easier. So yeah, folks can comment directly on the items in a Google doc and that would be fine. Okay, we'll figure it out, but we won't. Yeah. Okay. We had an issue about using Google docs. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's fine. So yes. That model that you're describing totally works. Yeah. And what we could do is if you sort of do it that way, then I can consolidate all the comments based on the number. So that when you get them. You know, they all like any comments that for item three. Are all together. Yeah. Each individual person's comments. I can do that. Do we, we should send those to you, Stephanie. So send them to me, but make sure you have the items numbered be very specific about what you're referring to. Yeah. Thanks much. Yeah. Process, a process question. So are we going to, are we providing another round of feedback on. The, on the outline and then we'll have another meeting to have another discussion about it. And then hopefully we'll be finalized or are we, I kind of, I was kind of hoping for a little further along than that, but maybe. Yeah. So. Yeah. Allow. So we are, we are moving. I mean, we're moving ahead with strategy development. Right. It's like. The outline is an ongoing process. I don't think I would worry about really making a bunch of changes to the outline at this point, unless there's something that's really bugging it. Yeah. I, I, I, it doesn't seem super valuable to have another round of. A whole other meeting around, around that we're going to start, you know, we're going to be into strategies pretty soon. And it's like, we're going to want to talk about that. Cool. That's what I was hoping. Good. Yeah. I'm glad I said the right thing. I will not be providing further comments on the outline. I think it's fine. And it will change a lot between now and the final version, no doubt. So that's fine. But just to give y'all a good sense of where we're headed. Yeah. And on, and on that point, I do think it would be helpful. Not right now, but as we move forward. Yeah. When you are at points where you have something you want us to review, whether it's chunks of text or pieces of it, or to kind of give a heads up. So we make sure we have enough time to do that for you on the timeline that support, that supports your process. And that it's not just continue. You know, I'm assuming you don't want just continuous comments. I mean, I mean, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, from you in terms of, you know, You guys identifying the right chunks for which you want us to review and us building that into our process. I mean, do we even need to have a space? Do we even need to put it on the table for us to give you feedback right now? It sounds like you're at a moment where you have plenty to work with and. I don't know. Like. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if there's more. So. I think folks that that want to, I know that it came right before the meaning and it can be difficult for, for folks to, to review it. So just opening that up as an option, but I agree. I think. To the extent where you're feeling like this discussion and what's written. Are leading us in the right direction. I think we should. I would, I would just suggest to that. People really read. Lauren did just an incredible job summarizing our comments. And if you haven't. Read it, I think it's worth reading to just to. Get a sense of where what's important, what other people are saying. It's a right. It's, it's a. It's a valuable document and should not. Float away. Yeah. And on that point, Jesse. Do you want to say it's one that I intend to keep coming back to as we move forward, because there are comments that folks have made that we're not really ready to address yet, but that we want to in the future. And so this, this is definitely going to be something that we come back to. Yeah. And I appreciate you doing that, Lauren, being on the other side of having to collect comments and respond to them. It's not fun, but it certainly makes the process much easier. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry, you had to make that document. Actually. Yes, it's, you know, a thing, but it's actually pretty valuable. So. Okay. So with that, I think we will move on. I'm Lauren and Jim welcome. You're welcome to. Leave, I think, or you can. I think we'll bail if you need anything else. Just holler. Great. Great to see y'all. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So just to recap, um, you're on a self-imposed deadline to, um, send a annual report to the town council of what we've been working on for the year. Um, doesn't have to be fancy, but I think it is helpful to just keep track of what's been going on, um, and I think it's really helpful to just keep track of what's been going on with both with e-cap and with sustainability in general. Um, So I will turn it over to Andre actually she's leading this work. I fully intended to have a draft to you. Um, but I. Just been overwhelmed with stuff. So. End of apology. On we go. Um, I would not bother me if we decided that we could extend our self-imposed deadline. Um, And not have to brush this out. Um, Before the years end, but, you know, there, there may be a budget deadline that. Um, We need to work towards. So. We'll do it. What are the. You probably can't hear me. Yeah, just what, what do we know the budget. Yeah. Darcy actually gave us that. Schedule. Use just a little bit. Yeah, I did. Um, the. Council president said that. Um, the next. You know, it could conceivably. Come up at the December 21st meeting or the first meeting in January. Um, Is fine. January. And the one after that is the 25th. The 25th. January 4th. It's the December 21st, January 4th, and January 25th. Do we, um, Imagine presenting this to the town council. So that we're on their agenda. I would suggest that it would be a good. Thing to do that. Yeah. Okay. Give me, give me a deadline. Let's choose one of those meetings to try to get into. Yeah. I think that's a good question. And we, so we, our next meeting is on the 16th, right? So what if we have a draft to look at and discuss on the 16th? And then we can, could we be prepared to present on the 21st? Or is that too tight to issue for the fourth instead? I'm guessing the 21st. Agenda is already pretty. Okay. Set, right? Darcy. If we go over a draft of our thing on the 16th. And then we're going to go to the 30th. And then shoot to present on the fourth. Or whatever they have space for. Yeah. Since we, we did. State that we were going to present our annual report annually. In December. Probably wouldn't make that much. Of a problem if we did it on January 4th. I wouldn't really want to go to January 25th. Okay. That sounds good to me. Everyone good. As always, I'll put in the bid for, I don't see why this needs to be more than a page. Like it's a bulleted list. It's concise. I really believe that. We're giving them an update. I think it's, I'd rather have them read everything. I don't think that's going to be a good idea. I don't think that's going to be a good idea. And I know what that might take longer to do, but that's just my. If that makes it easier for you as well. I think. What have we, what have we accomplished? What are we hoping you'll accomplish? Okay. I was trying to be exhaustive. So. Certainly makes it easier. Laura, did you want to say something? I was just going to say that. I think this plan sounds good. I think it's going to be a good idea. I think it's going to be a good idea. I think it's going to be a good idea. I think it's going to be a good idea. Meeting on the 30th. I don't know what folks are thinking in terms of. But I know for myself, it's going to be hard for me to come just because the kids don't have school those two weeks. So. So just throwing that out there, maybe we play it by year and see how again, I did to Jesse's point. Related to Jesse's point. I don't think there's going to be much controversial in this. But I think it's going to be a good idea. I think it's going to be a good idea. We could probably review it and give feedback for next, next time. And it'd be good to go for the, for the fourth. You folks. So let's maybe plan on. Let's, let's ask. So I think that means, right? We need to, I can email then and. Athena, right? And ask if we can get on the agenda for the fourth. Yeah. Or I can reach out to them and do that. Laura. That'd be great. And if we need to push it back, we can, but I think let's get on the agenda for the fourth and. Shoot for spending. A good chunk of our meeting on the 16th. Looking at the draft. I think that's a good idea. As well as I think to Ashwin's suggestion earlier, start talking about. Communication and outreach for the, for the. Carp. So. I think that we want to set. The stage. I don't think we just want to have bullets. I think we want to make an argument for. I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. I think that. Town. Thinks about everything. And. Not all of that costs money, but. That's a. A part of what. We see the. Carp. Moving. The town towards. I want to formally disagree with myself and say, I love that idea. That's a good idea. Okay. I'm sorry. Is a. Whoever knows the answer to this question. Are we allowed to help you with this drafting? Like, I'm, can I work? I have some time in the next week. I would be happy to work on this too. If that's helpful. If Andrew worked on something. And shared it with you. You could get it back to me and I could like. Send it to the group. You can't go back and forth. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Cool. So. So one thing that. I'm sorry. Just to Stephanie's point. Could, if Andra assigned like. Sections like. Ash, when you write this paragraph. And he does it. Is that okay? Yeah. If you, yeah. If you assigned it to people and then. You know, they don't deliberate about it. You can't deliberate about it exactly, but you could just assign a section to somebody to write. Okay. Thank you. Okay. So. I can't remember. Darcy had already outlined it. Did you actually share the document or did we just move right into talking about the budget? Anybody remember. You had the draft last time. Right. Didn't we talk. It was a Google doc link. Okay. So. I can try to pull it out. Hold on. Well, I have it up. Actually it wasn't. It was a word doc. Yeah. So I just wanted to. Give people. A view of this. Just in terms of the structure. We are required to report on certain things according to. Our charge. And it's these five sections. So progress towards climate action goals. We'll include. Our progress in planning. Measures taken. We'll. Go. And then we'll move. Into however much, you know, I mean, that can just be the bulleted. Items and Stephanie will need to help with that. Got a start. And, but. That'll be some other things that we didn't have. Much to do with like. DPW. Got a highly efficient. Fire department got an ambulance that can idle without using a lot of energy or something like that. You know, I don't know. Do we need that level of. Information. I would just say that, you know, when we write these kinds of reports, at least I'm used to doing it from the perspective of a nonprofit that's trying to justify its own existence by proving that it has done well with respect to indicators. That's not what we're doing. That's not what we're doing. That's not what we're doing. That's not what we're doing. That's not what we're doing. That's not what we're doing. That's not what we're doing. The town of Amherst not done well on these indicators. And therefore you need to seriously fund these things. You know that we can frame it in those terms instead. So. Right. I mean, like. One thing on the list is the. Use of. The bike ride. The ride share. And. I can only assume that it was like. Way low. This year. Yeah, but people are still using it. And that's been something that's been noted is like because of COVID. Actually some people are more comfortable using the bikes rather than taking the bus. So it's been very interesting. So there's information like that. I think that's important. And also. To Ashwin's point, I mean. I think you kind of want to do both. You want to identify the things that have been done. And then you want to talk about how we need to do even more. Like, I don't, I don't think you want to discount what's been done. I just think you also want to say, which is. Great, but you know, more needs to be done. More emphasis needs to be focused on. Expanding EV infrastructure even more or providing alternative transportation options more. Yeah. So then three evaluation of effectiveness. We're not really in a position to do. Any evaluation. We don't have any data. So maybe next year we'll have some data on things that were done. This year. I don't know. There's like no mechanism for collecting. This kind of information. Like, right, Stephanie. How much energy was saved. By the truck that DPW got? Well, that's not totally true. I mean, you can look at fuel savings for the truck. And DPW does keep records of the. Of the mile, you know, of the, um, fuel use. It's not like that's impossible to get. I mean, that's an easier thing. Yeah. Well, we're not going to do that this year. Because nothing's been in place long enough. And it's such a weird year. Yeah. But. It does make me wonder if we're going to do it in the future and, and how. Well, I can tell you that doing my annual report for green communities this year, energy use was certainly down. You know, but we know why. So it was, it was a very unique year. So it doesn't like anything reported in this past year, just doesn't feel particularly accurate. Right. Well, the green communities report. Could be. Referred to. For some detail. Yes, Stephanie. That'd be appropriate. Is it normally sent to the town council? No, I'm not really, I mean, there are things that I could. There are maybe some charts. I have to look at it, but there are some charts I could develop that would be useful to have. I just need to look through it and sort of see what makes sense and what doesn't. To include, and I can, I can send those to you. The whole report, it's just an Excel workbook and I, in and of itself, I'm not sure I've shared it with the town manager before. Quite honestly, I don't even know that I had done so this year yet. I just haven't gotten around to it. I've got a few things I need to update. Yeah. And I think to, to Ashwin's point, and I know Joanne has a question. I mean, I think that's where we can say, like, we need. We need, we need stuff to do these calculations. We, you know, I mean, I also think we should mention that. You know, we have, I think we're probably one of the only town committees that has met as much as we have during COVID. Yeah. I think we should say that too. Yeah. I was going to say, giving an estimate of the hours. Include. Really? Okay. Right. We have a, we can just multiply the meetings times. And don't forget. Well, don't forget your task group. Meetings. There were 12 sessions. So. And I was certainly part of all of those. So. Okay. Yeah. Can I just. My sort of sense on this so far is that. I think this is our first year report. And I don't, I think a lot of these, these one through four at least are not that. Applicable. They will be applicable. We don't have a plan yet. This year was based, was, was really focused on developing a plan. And I think that's what I wanted to talk about. But I was going to also, and so I think the, my sense is this report may be a little bit different. Because everything we've sort of mentioned so far. We, all the work that Stephanie's done. And so forth is somewhat business as usual. You would have been doing that most likely without e-cac. And so forth. So I think to Ashrin's point. This is the opportunity to say. We got a good start. We're running. We got a plan underway. We've got a lot, a lot of stuff we're going to, that's going to be, you know, coming forward. And, and, and business as usual. We won't get there with business as usual. And business has to change. Remarkably. You know, not in scary terms, but the one thing, and I don't know if it's completely analogous, but we're sort of running into this with the, at the university as well. Because we have the, the carbon plan is in its final sort of draft. And we're presenting it now to the leadership. Of the campus, which is not quite analogous, but has some similarities. And so we're really, you know, we want it, we want to, you know, stress that this is an opportunity for the town to be a leader. At first to, to, to, to make it clear that this is not, it's, this is something that needs to be done. There's a climate emergency. This, this, we don't really have a choices here. We need, we need to do this, but we're also in a position to take leadership. But also we're sort of, you know, at the university, there's, we're also not trying to hide the fact that this is going to be a lot of effort and a lot of money. It's a little bit different for the town because it's not necessarily money from the town, but it's money from the town's economy. But we're really trying to tout it as, and it realistically, it's while it's not a, it's an investment as opposed to a cost. And basically we're, we're, you know, at least at the university, we're looking at a lot of capital investment, which comes at some, you know, brings a lot of capital investment up into the near term, but there's substantial payback for the next 100 years of an infrastructure on campus that will our estimate, estimate in some very early financial work is that by 2045, we sort of pay it back and then we got savings for, you know, decades after that for the university. And I'm thinking that, you know, I don't think we want to sugarcoat the fact that this is not going to take some action, which involves, you know, however we change out all the heating systems of the homes and so forth. You know, it's not, it's not a town budget, but it's a Amherst economy budget, economy issue and how, you know, and that I think we should sort of set the stage of that this is going to take a lot of good, a lot of thinking, but it's going to be an investment for the town to put it in a position to be in really good shape for the next 100 years, just sort of how we're touting it for the university. Yeah. Can I also add that I think, you know, I think when you talk to about what you've done over the past year, the community engagement as part of the task group process was really key in that it really identified also the rental sector as a really important piece of this, which would normally not be business as usual. You know, we might not be focusing so much on that if it hadn't been for this process and the way in which we engaged people was really important and brought that to the forefront. And I think that really needs to be called out. Because the town needs to understand that landlords, property owners, housing complexes really need to sort of step up because without them, that's a huge piece of the goal. Right. So. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's where we could go into a, a lot of detail. And I don't know if our presentation to the city council is necessarily the place for this, but I kind of think it is. Other municipalities that are serious climate change are reorganizing their prior Seattle. The Seattle police department by 18% last week, that's about $40 million in Seattle. And of that money, they put $132,000 into the office of sustainability and environment to restore their municipal Green New Deal advisor. They put $100,000 into Seattle public utilities to do various upgrades. They put $800,000 in to convert homes to electric heating from gas and oil. They put $150,000 in for energy benchmarking to increase energy efficiency in commercial buildings. Right. So this, and there's, there's more stuff that they did too. So every, every week, and this is the, you'll find the same story in Austin, Texas, but we are seeing municipalities in this country put their money where their mouths are and actually shift their priorities in a meaningful way and change staffing in a meaningful way. And I really feel strongly that we ought to be emphasized to be emphasizing these types of aspirational possibilities in our report and in our presentation to the council. With reference perhaps to what other municipalities have been doing along these lines. So, you know, they can basically, you know, they can't tell us that another staff person for this type of work is impossible because that's, that's absurd. Yeah, I second the references. It's really helpful to have those values and numbers. Yes. So the, the funding needed, that's where, you know, we'll put in the, the mostly staffing, you know, our imagination for what the staffing could be. I think we could even just hint to it being in the, in much more detail in the report, but I think noting that, you know, this is going to be a part of the report. It's going to be something we have to do. And that's what other communities are doing. It would be helpful to preempt the, the carp. Absolutely. And I think I'll prepare. You know, it's. I don't know was Laura, somebody mentioned, I mean, we could, there could be some, you know, funding coming from the federal government, the new administration opportunities for a town to apply for funding for sustained additional sustainability. You know, we could have, you know, we could have, you know, we could have offices or work staff. And we should sort of put that in not necessarily saying, you know, that it needs to come from the existing budget, but that we will work with the town to put it, put in look for opportunities like that. Though I'm not against Ashwin's idea of, and importance of, you know, if this is a new priority for the town, let's shift things around. I think that might be. A little bit of detail. So that's probably just as much as. We need. There is a possibility that. When Laura talks to. When. That she, you know, that she might say. December 21st is better than January 4th. I'm just saying that that's a possibility because of whatever. So it probably would be good to at least be prepared. For her saying that. I could reach out now. I mean. They should have a sense of that already. And I could. You know, I can reach out tomorrow. That's, that's just an email. Yeah. She, she, she did mention. She said that December 21st. Would be okay. So I, I don't know if that means. I don't know what it means. So. Okay. So Stephanie. If you can. See that email and if there's any. Need for us to expedite, let it let us know. Okay. The one thing that I. Occurs to me is that at the January 4th meeting. I think we may be. Elect re-electing the president again. And I don't know whether there will. I don't know. Well, whether, whether that'll be something very quick or not. I don't know. I don't know. Probably be on the agenda for January 4th is. Some process type things. Including the election. I'll throw out too. I thought it was really great when, I think it was Laura and Andra. Presented to. The town council. So I think. I just kind of poll ourselves. Are we available. More or less neither of those dates and is, is it Laura and Andra presenting this or Ashwin. If you were had a voice in this, would you be one of the presenters? I don't know, but. I'll just make a plug that we. We try to be there as much of us as possible. Agreed. And I'd be happy to. I'd be happy to have different faces of the. Present if that. Works out for folks. Good point, Jesse. So. So Stephanie is going to reach out to Lynn. And Athena, we're going to shoot for the fourth. But update if it's something different. Andra is going to send out a draft and reach out to Ashwin. And if anybody else. Any other pieces of the, of the, of it that you, I know you've already. Connected or connecting with Stephanie about some details, but if there's other pieces that you think would be helpful to get help from, please let folks know. And we'll plan on, on our next meeting. Going over. We're focusing on the, on the, on the report. And with time available, also start talking. About communication and outreach for the carp and sort of, I think just thinking about next year and, and what our, what our plans are. Um, does that sound okay with everybody? Great. Do we decide now for meeting on the 30th? Who has conflict on the 30th? I know everybody's schedule is probably still up in the air, but. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say, I usually take that week between our, that time between Christmas and a year's off. Yeah. I mean, given how much we've been working, I think it'd be nice for us to take a day off. Time off, but, um, It sounds like people would be able to join. So let's keep that as tentative for now. And we'll see how we get. Get on next time. Yeah. Yeah. It could be a sub quorum working meeting. Or something like that. Maybe it could be festive and we could have snacks. Okay. Great. Well, thank you. I was in a really horrible meeting before I joined this call, and it was a great call. So. Um, On that note of like festiveness though. I mean, if we are going to like take it, cause I feel like we're sort of ending a phase of work with Lene and right now in starting a new phase of our work. I think it would be cool to do some kind of a. More. Lively dynamic. It reflective activity together to like think about what comes next for us at some point. Um, That departs from some of the kind of more. Uh, Dried, uh, meeting activity structures that we've had so far. Or recently at least. So I don't know if others are interested in that. I can like think about what that might look like a little bit, but. I don't know if that might be nice to do soon. What if you did a mini retreat? Just on a whole separate day. That's not a meeting day that. It's just kind of not formal and. Small groups and. Yeah. I don't, I mean, we still, I'd have to look into it because I don't know if we still run into the whole. Open meeting law issue in terms of doing breakout rooms. I'm not sure if we can do that. Um, The council to breakout rooms and their retreat. No. Yeah, I don't, I don't think you can, Andrew. Um, but, but there might be a way at least to make it a sort of more informal way of. You know, maybe, maybe even doing like. Little polling or. I don't know. There's more interactive ways that you could. Put information up and share it and whiteboard together and. You know, it can, it can be more than just this sort of standard. Format of discussing. Plan. It could be a little more. Interesting. I'd be happy to work with. Folks on that. I need to a slightly different technology to do it. Yeah. Well, there's, I mean, I think it's a way to utilize the technology we have in a different way. I think we have access to things. I'm pretty sure I, you know, part of it was Sean is on there. So Sean, I don't know if you can. Maybe jump on real quick. If you're available, but I'm just wondering. If we have access to whiteboards and things like that still, I mean, some of the tools and things were disabled. But that might actually, I think whiteboards exist. And I think there's other features that I mean, they exist. I'm just saying that we could utilize them. I think there are things that we could utilize that we haven't before. If I were Sean, I would have my sound off. Yeah, well, I think that's a great idea. And Ashman, maybe if you want to think a little bit about how we do that, I mean, we may need tech. We may not. I don't know what you're thinking, but just a different, my sense is that just a different conversation than we've been having. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I mean, it sounds like as long as it doesn't involve breakout rooms, we can kind of do stuff just here. But yeah, anyway, I'll think about it. We can circle back. Yeah. And if there are things Ashman that you specifically are looking for our need to shoot me an email and I can always check in with it and see if we can provide them. We generally don't attract too many public public participants. So we could probably, you know, do something, not outlandish, but a little bit more fun and not running, you know, running to sort of being concerning town people that are wondering what we're doing. Okay, great. Well, I think with that, I don't see anybody in the attendee room. So I think we're, we're, we don't have any public rate, Stephanie. No, no more public. There was one person, but they left. Okay. We were too interesting for them. All right. So thanks everybody. And we will circle back in two weeks. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks everyone. Good night. Good night.