 Welcome everyone to Transformation Talks. I'm Tairo Asan, the director of Brightline at PMI. We are very happy to have you with us today and the talk today would be about exploring strategic doing in evidence-based practice proven framework for digital transformation and resiliency in organizations. Strategic doing was incorporated at Peirde University and leaders utilizing it across the globe for organizational transformation. I would like to welcome Dr. Scott Hackison in a conversational transformation talk and Scott is a professor at Peirde University in the Department of Technology and Leadership and Innovation and he's the founder of Hackison Associates. As you may see or you may have read Scott helps leaders design, grow and strategically transform organizations, communities and ecosystems to make them more adaptive, innovative and competitive. He is also co-author of the book Strategic Doing 10 Skills for Agile Leadership which was actually number one seller on Amazon in six categories including business management and project management. Welcome Scott. Thank you glad to be with you. Let us get starting. The topic today is about how digital transformation can help facilitate organizational resiliency. So let's start with some definition or defining some terms. Scott, when you use the term digital transformation how do you define it? Because I know it could mean different things to different people. Sure, sure. Let's start with the notion of transformation and then maybe we'll add digital to it. Transformation is something we're all familiar with because we're doing it. None of us are staying the same whether we're talking about ourselves as people, whether we're talking about our relationships or whether we're talking about the organizations in which we work. They're constantly transforming and anytime you talk about organizational transformation today it's got to include the digital because we all have been digitally transforming for a number of years. So it's a term that we've recently started to kind of talk about but we've been doing it. We've been doing it ever since there's been digital technologies. I can distinctly remember sending my first email in 1990 my first job with American Airlines and it was just inter-office. It was inter-organizational and I remember thinking that the name was silly email. What in the world is email? Instead of sending an office memo, we were digitally transforming and we have been ever sent. So let's stick with that notion of transformation for a minute. We've got a poll I think and let's launch that first poll because I have a question for all the participants and I'm curious to hear the answer to. So the question is a personal one. To what extent are you the same person you were seven years ago? Are you largely the same person? Are you somewhat different as a person? Are you significantly different? Are you a completely different person? Let's let's launch that poll and see what there is. Thank you and then thank you 86 percent of people responding here and what the distribution is that if you look at the numbers completely different or significantly different person we have 62 percent if you add this and then if you add also somewhat different meaning that there is a change you get to 98 percent if you add also about 2 percent would say largely the same. Any reaction with that? Yeah of course you're going to take that differently but here's the reason I picked seven years. In some fundamental ways we are a completely different person than we were seven years ago because our cells have regenerated. So every seven years we have a brand new us. Now as we age not every one of those cells seems to regenerate as much as they did when they were younger but largely the human body is a brand new human body every seven ish years. So we are transforming as we speak we're losing or losing cells we're growing new cells so we are quite familiar with transformation but in other ways we're somewhat still the same person that's the same genetic blueprints the same DNA sequence that makes us who we are so any of those answers could have been right depending on how you describe them but that's a good I think anchor for helping us understand transformation and it's the same for organizations if I had asked that are you the same organization many of you don't work for the same organization as you did seven years ago but pick an organization is it the same organization as it was seven years ago absolutely not and organizations are transforming all the time and they're digitally transforming all the time but not all at once just like the human body these these transformations can be gradual over time but after a certain amount of time it is a completely different organizations whether you're talking about the people running it or the experiences that those people have or the digital technologies that you're using and then multiply that beyond just you your suppliers are changing your customers are changing so we're all we're all organizationally transforming uh uh all of the time right so when I think about digital transformation that's what comes to mind it's not some switch that you turn yesterday we weren't digitally transformed today we are it's gradual over time um now the human body transformation I just mentioned that's organic transformation and organizations transform organically as well it's unplanned it just it just happens as time marches on but what about strategic transformation I like to use that term I use it to describe whether it's change management or uh trying to innovate or uh launching and executing a new strategy now that's strategic transformation so that's a little bit of a different animal so how do we um uh harness our power to transform in a way that ties to our strategic objectives and yes digital is certainly a part of that but the human side of that is part of that as well so when I think about digital transformation those are the kind of things that are going through my head thank you so much Scott and you know as you were mentioning the seven-year window I was thinking and we were looking at a book that we released last year regarding perpetual transformation we're noticing that it's not something that is one and go you know what we're finding is of course your shift but by the time you realize the ecosystem is changing the environment is changing the customer demands are changing so you are really in that perpetual cycle where you shift and you shift and you shift and and and that is the new way of being of course just uh linking to that then is we talk about digital transformation let us maybe look at closer to home what about organizational resiliency and what what is your helpful way maybe to think about the resiliency yeah so um resiliency is another term that we we use a lot and what does it mean well it's our ability to withstand uh interruptions uncertainty uh when we get knocked down or when we take a punch do we do we fall down and we're like that boxer out for the 10 count or do we keep on our feet or at least if we get knocked down how do we stand back up so again let's let's kind of anchor it to ourselves as human beings um we we talk about you know i'm a part of my job as a professor so we talk about student resiliency a lot more than we did a a few years ago especially post-covid um we talk about mental health a lot more than we used to and have many more supports uh for our students and for our faculty so i think we we've gained a better understanding of what our personal resiliency is and we know that it's a it's a set of kind of an internal um characteristics but it's also external characteristics mostly associated with the social network that you have around you the supportive network so a big component of resiliency is not just your own personal resolve but the network that you set up around yourself um to help us be resilient so um i think resiliency is is is quite relational right so an organization that is resilient i think that's a a relational um phenomenon as well uh the the networks that we have we have our formal uh uh structure often quite hierarchical for lots of good reasons because they're functions that are served well in a hierarchy but hierarchies i don't think give us resilience in fact they can work against us so most organizations have a complementary organizational structure that's quite a bit more horizontal um and it's not an either or it's not an either an open network or command and control hierarchy instead it is understanding that we have both operations operational systems if you will and recognizing which function is better served with which one and i think resiliency is served best through these horizontal relationships that we have in our in our organizations and again it's not too different from our own lives if you think about the people that you have around you whether it's a spouse or a partner or close friends and confidants that helps us as individuals be resilient so resilience is is relational and the the currency of relations is conversation right conversation is the the currency that connects us with other human beings whether we're talking about in our lives or whether talking about with um with our our colleagues and our customers we better be in dialogue with our customers we better be in conversation with uh our co-workers our our suppliers right so those um those connections that we make is what helps us be resilient so um i'd like to do another poll uh because conversation uh uh the the smallest unit of change is the conversation so we we change just yeah we we change as a result of the conversations that we have whether it's personally or whether it's in organizations so um we often talk about uh uh making space for deep focused conversations in our organizations about things that matter and it's those relationships that get built that create the resiliency so i'm i'm curious so the next poll question in a typical work week how much of your time has spent having deep focused conversation quite a lot some not much some of you might confess not at all it's always the small stuff it's always the details it's not deep and focused um let's see what this poll says hope we get as good a participant rate as we did in the last week the participant rate is just amazing uh we are blocking 80 percent uh and over and uh i'm glad to report that we have uh about four hundred and forty attendees uh we have four hundred and more registering so this is amazing here and thank you for the reply uh and i think uh yeah about 85 response yeah good let's stop here and uh these are the results what we see really uh in terms of quite a lot only about 13 percent get into quite a lot uh uh spend quite a lot of time in deep conversation and then some about 50 percent and then we have another 38 percent that is either none or not much uh for none we are at three percent what what what does it tell you is there any insight you're pulling from this yeah i mean i i'm encouraged i've asked this question uh among other groups of leaders um and i've seen examples where there's even less of a of a culture of deep focused conversation um so i'm encouraged i'm encouraged and what that means to me is that um those of you who are finding time um you're doing so deliberately because if you don't do so deliberately you won't you won't find the time we're all overworked we're all busy there's so much taking up our attention and our energies that's not at that deep focus level um and again uh relationships take care right so you know we we we know from research that deep focused conversation again in our personal lives results in better quality of life uh better um uh satisfaction with your lives we also know interestingly with with older people it it means better health and longevity if you're having deep conversations with people who care about you and people who you care about i mean if you think about um you know if you've had a longer term romantic relationship uh it started out with some deep come focused conversations i guarantee you those long uh in my day it was chats face to face uh without without texting or perhaps over the phone for hours at a time when you were separated right so that's how we get to know no others that's how we have uh uh create that relational uh aspect of it's so important to our personal lives same with our organizations so if we don't make space to have those deep focus conversations they're not going to uh occur um i love uh i sometimes talk about the uh the roosevelt effect so elinor roosevelt is a farmer first lady of the united states uh and her husband franklin delano roosevelt was president during world war two and she's known if you're not from the u.s she's known for these wonderful quips and so the roosevelt effect uh comes from this so she said let's see small minded people talk about people uh uh kind of medium minded people talk about events and really deep people talk about ideas right so we should be we should be big minded people having deep focus conversation about how our organizations are transforming because remember they are transforming so if we're not talking about what we want our organizations to to to look like and be like and how they will serve our customers um in the future um then we're we're missing the boat uh i remember working with one senior leader and he was very was a change management project and he was uh curmudgeonly is the word that i use just always kind of complaining about everything and why are we doing this and he did not see the need for doing what we were doing but nearly into the process i had one more conversation with him and he said to me this he said i guess sometimes things have to change in order for them to stay the same wow this is profound i i made him repeat it because i it it kind of juggled my brain so i said repeat he said sometimes i guess things have to change in order for them to stay the same and then i realized how profound it was right so uh we have these organizational values we have what makes us special right what hooked us to begin with to be a part of that organization or to to build it from scratch yet we have to kind of reinterpret that all the time to stay true to it so even something like values which sounds like it should just be forged iron and never change they have to be reinterpreted right so let me give you an example from from family life that hopefully everyone can understand so i have sons who are 18 and 21 when they were little guys when they were three and six the best friday night they can imagine was friday night movie night with mom and dad so we get pizza or we get something we'd make cookies we'd settle down to watch a family movie right why because we all valued quality family time now my wife and i could have articulated that my boys couldn't articulate it but they valued it they loved it you know it was wednesday or thursday what movie were we gonna watch can we get pizza on friday night you know so so that so our value was quality family time but we have had to revisit what that value means at every stage in their development right so imagine if i only interpreted quality family time as friday night movie night and they're 18 and 21 you better be home every friday night for a family movie night that would destroy our family right so we have to reinterpret that value of quality family time as we reach different stages in those relationships so deep focused conversation even about our values how we reinterpret those values and we have new digital technologies available to us when consumer preferences are changing overnight we better be having deep focused conversations about how we're going to strategically transform and i'm thinking that when really looking at the statistics and the data that came in that i mean encouraging people to have a deeper focused conversation and then when you link it of course when we have a conversations there are ideas that come up and sometimes you see that the ideas just stay at ideas level there is no action that is taken so the idea just stay there and in some in some contexts that conversation is in the open it could even create mistress here i want to maybe move on and looking at the book that you have strategic doing 10 scales for azure leadership you discuss transformation and resilience see a lot in that book can you share with us because for me i'm interested in knowing how the discipline of strategic doing came about sure and explore more yeah well thank you for mentioning the book and by the way there's there's going to be a special offer a giveaway if you will near the end related to the book so stick around to to make sure you get the chance so let me back up long before there was a book there was a recognition that that transformation whether you call it strategic planning or change management or innovation what have you was not working as well as it once seemed to and i'm sure you've all experienced that the tools that we seem to rely on traditional strategic planning models you know swat change management disciplines that were very you know regimented served us well for a long time and i would even say project management served us really really well for a long time and then all of a sudden it didn't seem to be working as well as it used to so i recognize that and begin to scratch my head and wonder all right well why you know why do seemingly equally resourced uh uh equally groups of committed people why do so many seem to fail at their transformation efforts and some you know a minimal seem to succeed so so i became very interested in that phenomenon and wanted to learn more and along the way met others who are asking similar questions so we decided to look at honestly thousands of transformation efforts um to at both uh failures um and if you believe the you know the mckinsey's of the world 70 percent of of transformation initiatives fail right and we wanted to look at successes as well so this actually evolved into my dissertation research so looked at uh successful transformation efforts and looked at uh those that were less than successful and a a pattern began to emerge that was present and nearly all of the successes and absent and nearly all of the failures and it was you know we talked about conversation it was a pattern of the the narrative of the of transformation the conversations that they would have relative to converse relative to change in transformation and the successful one seemed to follow a specific pattern of uh exploration that would ask questions like well or here's a challenge here's our opportunity what could we do right let's open up the aperture to consider all the things we could do and then a mechanism to say but all right of all those things we could do what should we do so begin to to narrow down to to some strategic choices and then what what will we do what specific actions will we take in short time buckets right over the next 30 days what will we do and then we'll come back together and we'll we'll we'll we'll consider what what we'll do in the next 30 days the next 30 days now 30 days wasn't always the pattern but there were these triple feedback loops constantly looking at testing assumptions and and and taking a look at the context to see if it had changed so we recognize that pattern and we found kind of 10 markers on that pattern on those 10 markers became what we began to refer to as the 10 rules right and by rules we we did I didn't mean like rules of monopoly but more heuristics rules of thumb so I I teach uh uh I end up having a lot of student athletes in my in my classes um and I remember having a baseball player one time and I said how do you catch a fly ball right and then he you couldn't explain it and it as it turns out there's a mathematical formula for how you catch a ball but does he have that mathematical formula in his mind no he's following like two or three rules in terms of where you set your eyes how you move your body in relation to that right it's kind of intuitive so so there are these heuristics that seemed to be present in this uh pattern and that pattern we began to see if we could articulate see if we could not just look at it in in in retrospect but could we design strategic um transformation processes using that same pattern and that's what evolved into what we now refer to as strategic doing the strategic doing discipline so we have this 10 set of rules and then a set of leadership skills and the subtitle of the book is actual leadership so one of the 10 skill sets that a leader needs in order to lead an organization or a team with with agility so so that's where uh both the notion of strategic doing and uh the the kind of what's under the hood sort of came from and we began practicing it before we called it strategic doing and realized it's doing we you know there's certain things you can only learn by doing um whether it's riding a bike or whether it's you know figuring out how to fix your car you can you can't just watch youtube videos or read about it you have to do it so transformation is is the same we we we learned to transform by by by doing but then doing strategically so we begin refer to it as strategic doing and begin um teaching others those those 10 skills and how to apply them thank you so much for setting that stage on strategic doing i have a question that is coming from uh vivek so now so the question is i witness individuals teams members giving a midway just because they lost patience what's your view on it so so so basically we were saying that things are changing but sometimes it's attention span or the willingness to wait and see other results come to fruition uh organization don't have that patience right and and understood we we we don't have this the same patients as individuals often for for long time uh change it's just part of the human nature for for most of us so how do we build in there's been a lot of research done on the power of small ends right so how do we create um processes in which we can have small wins so in the strategic doing process for instance we talk about pathfinder projects right so a pathfinder project is something with a relatively short time frame so nine months or excuse me nine weeks is a or a typical pathfinder project 90 days rather 90 days to 120 days but even within that um 90 to 120 days you have shorter feedback loops so everyone is taking action uh and and we have a way of of kind of structuring what those actions are and they're often um uh they're micro commitments because typically we take on this transformation work on top of our work of keeping the lights on our organization or keeping the existing customers happy or keeping the existing products rolling off the you know the assembly line so we can't drop everything and commit to having those deep focused conversations that lead to strategic action so we have to have a lightweight structure that doesn't require uh all of our time and our energy so we find that if it's action oriented people people don't like to wait around people like to do things and people like to experiment so if we do we find out what works we find out what what doesn't so it's very action oriented but trans but the true transformation will take a while right so so we sometimes see you've got to go slow to go fast and that usually is proven in in in results of transformative efforts as well and we know that you know we know that when you when you engage about 25 percent of the overall population that's your inflection point so you know when you're trying to change the culture of your organization or you're trying to to change the consumer behavior once you get to about the 25 percent mark and it might take you a while to get to 25 percent but that's where you see your first inflection point so go slow to get to the 25 and then and then you begin to to go to go fast so these short um think do cycles um can help address that that impatience for for seeing progress excellent excellent thank you thank you for this answer because again it it is sometimes we say to the marathon it's not just once and done and and commitment need to be there for the long haul and of course the need to show quick wins or some wins at least in this cycle of revisiting and knowing how things are progressing and so on so more like a quest or a journey because things are never the same but there need to be that communication line making sure that people like work people know what is happening and it's not let's say a silo and so on right I just want to move on you already talked about the the concept of pathfinders a project maybe you can elaborate more but I want you also to look at the in the book there were two two concepts that you at least two concepts that you cover one that is called big easy and then there is a pathfinder that you just mentioned can you tell us more about the big easy pathfinders project sure sure so um the big easy has nothing to do with New Orleans unfortunately uh so the New Orleans is not as the big easy um but but let me back up a little bit from the big easy so I can put the big easy and uh Pathfinder projects in more context so when I'm working with a an organization and their leadership I'm often suggesting that you should be playing three hands of blackjack simultaneously if you will um one of those uh one of those should be related related to your innovating with your products your services you know whatever it is you're doing whatever it is you're selling you better be thinking about what you're going to sell next all right so that's one hand of blackjack uh the second is your market so who are you going to sell to either who are you going to sell your existing products to that you're not selling to currently or who might you be selling a new product to so one hand is a bet on on your product innovation another is a is a bet on your um market innovation and then the third is on operations or your organizational structure because you better be thinking about changing that as well so um each of those we you can use something like strategic doing to um make some hypotheses about the three of those right we talked about starting with a framing question and appreciative future oriented question that people can engage with uh emotionally um and then uh then that those questions become a watering hole if you will right that attracts other people like oh my gosh you know uh i want to be a part of that right um and as they come together we surface our our assets right that we have that we think might be valuable and then we think about how we would link and leverage those assets to create new strategic opportunities so let's say we are playing those three hands of of poker we have three hypotheses one about our product one about our market and one about our organizational structure well as you move through the strategic doing cycle you go very quickly from just uh coming up with your hypothesis to testing it so you very well in in each of these um hands of of blackjack if you will you start out with that first question of strategic doing what could we do and you may have a whole bunch of things you could do right to to realize the future that you envision but in order to answer the second question of strategic doing but what should we do right narrow it down to the one or the two that's where the big easy comes into play so we have a way of helping evaluate potential strategic options to find which one of them represents a big easy the big idea that we think could really be transformational right oh my gosh if we were able to be successful at this it would change everything in a good way right but we also need to find the path of least resistance that's where the easy comes in so the big easy is a basic two by two matrix right we're looking for the big idea that's relatively easy to execute so um i've described that and some people said well it's low hanging fruit well sort of but imagine there are three pieces of fruit hanging low it's the ability to pick the one that's going to be the most delicious right so so that's what we mean by the big easy so your big easy is your idea that is potentially transformational and potentially easy to execute on um that's a complex decision that most people can't make themselves so that's why we need to have deep focused conversations and capture the strategic intuition of the group about which is the big easy so we have a way that we coach leaders to bring bring people together to to make those big easy decisions then once you've once you've made a big easy or once you've made a big easy selection that becomes your potential strategic opportunity then you have to make it real because right now it's just a bumper sticker says well we should do this well then the next set of conversations is to convert a strategic opportunity to a strategic outcome that's measurable so how do we how do we make this measure how would we recognize success if we saw it and how would we measure or observe that success right now comes the pathfinder project because that's still probably a pretty bold thing that we're trying to do so our pathfinder project is our first test of our hypothesis it's a pilot it's a phase one it's a prototype it's a pop-up it's one of those action oriented things we will do right to test our hypothesis that this could be big and we think it's going to be relatively easy so the the combination of the big easy how do we make strategic choices how do we rule some things out rule other things in and then the pathfinder project comes to play and all right well but what are we actually going to do we move from what should we do to what will we do what are you going to do what are you going to do what are you going to do here's what I'm going to do right to execute that pathfinder project it's coming to my mind that we may not know of the answer so it is I mean let's start with a step where we are on a quest we are looking sensing testing piloting and finding the path because sometimes I mean leaders or organizations feel like they might they must know all the answers and that's not where they find themselves let me move on with a question by Michael and Michael yeah Michael is saying I've found Peter Senghi the fifth element the fifth discipline extremely informative with regard to dealing with transformation in systems which are difficult to change is giving us an example of the Department of Defense now the question is how would you introduce a transformation strategy within organizations that have rigid systems in place before you answer I want I want to call upon the the attendees as well the participants this is a question that we may all have I take I want you to in the chat to also judge your idea regarding how you'll address that question and then Scott will also give us some hints well welcome to my world right that's the world that I live in so I'm at Purdue University if you don't know anything about Purdue it's one of the top public engineering schools in the United States aeronautical engineering is one of our our most successful programs as is agriculture and biological engineering but we have all the other flavors of engineering one distinction about Purdue is more astronauts have walked in space that are Purdue graduates than graduates of any other university you may have heard of this guy named Neil Armstrong not ever sure whatever became of him but he's a graduate of Purdue of course Armstrong was the first man to walk into space so I work in a very engineering centric organization and I'm a social scientist right so I work every day with a mindset that is trained to think of constraints and that is trained to think of the world and of organizations as machines right and that are predictable of course they they know that it's not but the mindset is that it is right so I've had a lot of strategic doing related projects in very engineering and technology focused organizations we've worked with NASA we've worked with one of the large military contractors in just those situations in which change innovation and strategic transformation are really really difficult because the DNA of those organizations is to de-risk everything right and to focus on greater and greater efficiencies right we need that of course we do right that's what the industrialized economy built wealth and in a way that has never been seen before right but but when when that mode of working is starting to play itself out and we need to transform digital or otherwise it makes it really really hard and organizations have immune systems just like our human bodies and when something comes in that feels like a threat it fights back even if you can go one by one and ask people yeah we want to transform yeah we want to transform there's something about the collective that behaves differently right so I found that you have to offer an experiment right so I often come into a place like NASA or a place like a big military contractor first of all they found their way to me because something that they've been trying isn't working we're trying to transform we're trying to innovate we're trying to change and by gosh we just keep spinning our wheels and very often the narrative is this we just hired fill in the blank for one of the large consulting firms they worked with us for a year they delivered a plan we paid them six sometimes seven figures but we don't we don't know what to do right they they gave us a diagnosis or they gave us some ideas but we don't know how to execute on them so what I do is I I commend and I say no sweat let's pick one recommendation from that report not the not the top one but not the small stuff somewhere in the middle and you said if we made progress on that we'd all be happy right so let's say great let's experiment with a new way of trying to do that thing and then you be the judge in 90 to 120 days you will have evidence to say are we able to get things done in this way and we haven't been able to get things done in this way I I don't know I think you will but I don't know but you will know right and then once you know then we can decide all right well how do we do more of our work in this way or how do we get better at deciding what of our work needs to work in the higher hierarchy it's very well served by the hierarchy but what of our work and transformation is one of them is not served well in the hierarchy we don't so so to to so I don't trigger the immune system by saying break down the hierarchy no you need to be amadextrous you need to say some of our functions work great in a hierarchy some functions just won't work at all so you have two operating systems right you have one built for hierarchies and the tools that go with that and then you have another operating system with tools that help you do that more horizontal transformational work so I frame it as a as an experiment and I frame it as I'm not asking you to get rid of what you've been doing I'm asking you to consider another operating system I think 15 years ago when I switched from a PC to a Mac I wanted a divided hard drive a partitioned hard drive so I could boot up DOS and Windows or I could boot up the Microsoft OS because I knew there were some functions that were better done with one operating system and some that were better with the other and it took me a long time to wean myself off of PC so present it as two different operating systems not one trying to destroy the other but they can operate in parallel and then start with an experiment and gather the data and see for yourself if it works helpful thank you I know I know but I'll just maybe add but at some time we need to let the old go for me to emerge as well so so how you you manage that is is the challenge right I'm completely aligned because how you get harness the power of people how you get people together so that again because that will let's go it is my baby today I I mean I don't want to let it go and right ask me how do I make it transition yeah that baby sometime would grow with me to work on his or her own and so on let's have a go ahead go ahead yeah so what what we found is that so so here's the hierarchy right so here's the hierarchy and we say all right well let's let's slide this other operating system underneath this hierarchy and you migrate just a few of your assets to this new way of doing things and it's it's you know you're still on your regular team but this is pick up ball on the playground right we're going to experiment we're going to find you know what we can do if they see that that this creates value they find more ways to dismantle parts of the hierarchy and migrate it to this new way of thinking right in this new way of doing and the old starts to to melt away and the new emerges but here's here's the crux of the matter the new will become hierarchical after a while right because you get set in your ways so it is a constant you know we every organization started out as an open network anything goes will take on risk it may have been 150 years ago for some of them but that's how they all start out and it's these cycles of the wild wild west and then you know the the the the rigid rules that help us extend that growth and squeeze out as much value as we can it's the natural progression of things yeah i'm loving the conversation i know time is also running so let me take take take one one question here but i'll combine two questions here i know of course there are many people here on the line and there are questions trickling in if someone want to learn about strategic doing for digital transformation and organizational resiliency where should i start but as you're answering this question i want to add a second part of a question by ashish where you say how you are seeing organization experiment transitioning between risk orientation and opportunity scanning so you mentioned it where the old the new actually take over the old and later on that new also becomes old yeah if it is two question in one that would be the the last question that we will take for today go ahead yeah so let's start with that risk question um so you know we we each of us is uh each of us is uh uh unique in our own acceptance of risk and what kind of risk right some of us will take financial risk but we're certainly not going to take risks with our with our family or what have you um if you work for a big organization you're probably the kind of person that wasn't ready to take the risk to be a you know an entrepreneur right you wanted a safety of an organization so it's not you know it's not uh it's not that risk is bad you know risk versus bad and you know taking on risk is good it is um it is a yin to a yang right so another area of work that I focus on is uh cognitive diversity in in leadership teams and in groups that we pull together so we need we need we need both we need risk takers and and and I think of them as we need explorers and we need um optimizers right so optimizers who dare do everything they can to derisk something and explorers that are probably too risky right they get bored fast they move on and and ready to to face danger right the the the truth and the potential for growth is is having both of those qualities not in conflict with one another but in uh kind of congruence with one another right um to moderate one another you you know one's one's one's pulling forward and the other's pulling back and and moderating that behavior yet you need a disciplined way to have those conversations to surface those cognitive diversities and take full advantage of them so I have a set of tools that I use to tell um evaluate and visualize cognitive diversity in teams and organizations but but having a cognitively diverse team or group is only good if you have a way to um to take full advantage of it and that's where something like strategic doing comes in so starting with a cognitively diverse group giving them the tools to play to their strengths recognizing that the path forward is probably somewhere somewhere kind of in between um so so the second part of that question or the first part of the question I answer the second part first um the second part of that question was how can people learn more about strategic doing well I didn't I didn't join the the webinar in the attempt to sell books but that's a low a low stakes way to do it um so the strategic doing book is affordable it's not priced as a textbook it's priced like a regular book it's freely available on amazon but I'm gonna put a a code up here in a minute and and I'm also able to do a giveaway so I've arranged to to be able to give away uh 10 copies of the book so you can enter uh to to have a copy of the book but if you don't want to do that if you're not selected you can certainly pick it up so that's a that's a way to to to learn more that's your initial dive um but strategic doing is also a discipline that we teach um so I teach it here at Purdue University and in the graduate school as well as undergrad but you don't have to enroll at Purdue long before it was actually a college course a university course it was a professional development training um so we we do strategic doing practitioner trainings uh several times each year um and you can find more about that at uh have that link as well so those are that's a much deeper dive of course than a book but a book is a great place to start uh you can even google you google strategic doing you'll you'll find a lot out there uh so I urge you to just uh just start exploring learning thank you so much uh thank you so much really appreciate and of course I uh someone is saying the link is not visible so I think Rohit will share the link in the chat so that everybody have access to it uh for people interested in the complimentary copy that Scott has kindly agreed to provide us so thank you so much uh Scott I mean this has been insightful uh I mean really great conversation here whenever I talked about uh expert and uh thought leaders in transformation strategy my dream is always to see that 70 number coming down because you're here it uh spell every time 70 percent of organization failing and so on uh it is it is a hope that I will get more and more organization that are successful and that we could actually build the resilient organization so thank you for for the time I know we are at the time here I'll ask for us to get the next slide and I want to share uh also some good news uh some good news uh regarding a new book also that is coming up soon uh it is about building resilient organizations as many of you may know one of Brightline's pillar is about thought leadership so every year we work on uh bringing to life uh a compondium of best practices when it comes to transformation strategy in organization and the next one is building resilient organizations I often say this is not a book that you read from cover to cover it is mainly a book where when you open the uh the table of content you go through it you see content articles or topics that are of interest to you and then you go on and you you read it and then you basically find ways also of applying it it's been the result of a great collaboration with Pinkers 50 and I mean PMI be always at the forefront here so Brightline being an initiative of PMI so really thank you everyone we hope again that today has been an informative session and we look forward to have you when we actually have a session on the release of a book or a session that we talk about some of the elements that are covered in that book until then strategic doing is the way I mean not just thinking it is actually doing and that is what is giving us the result thank you everyone and have a good one