 Okay, good morning or good afternoon everyone. We're going to go ahead and get started. Got some people already watching us on YouTube. And share more will be joining as we're streaming. I'll let our panel participants put on their video themselves whenever they're ready to do so. My name is Joey. I'm a British Academy postdoctoral. Hello. At US University London. We're, and I guess my pleasure to be able to host this webinar for our linguistics department. Today we're going to be talking about promoting languages online and having a conversation with three people who are actively promoting their own languages online in their free time. And also have to linguists with us to give their perspective on what are the possibilities in this area of promoting languages through social media. Before we get started, I'll say a few words of introduction. I want to emphasize that this is a conversation. This is not a research team. We're not sharing any research results. We're really just exploring this topic and some of the complexities there. You can be part of the conversation. If you're watching on YouTube. I'll try to flip back and forth to those of you who are there. So if you have any questions or if anything comes to your mind. While you're watching us, feel free to add your question on YouTube. And we'll try to get your questions to our participants as well at the end of our conversation. I'll just say a few words about who's here with us in the room. See if I can share my screen to show that. So with us in this conversation are three people who are promoting their language. And if you've seen that already on our promotional material, maybe you had a chance to check out the content that they're creating online. If you haven't had a chance to check that out. If you're able to multitask a bit, go ahead and check out what they're doing online. I'm going to be sharing about their experiences. I want to give you a bit of an idea just in case you don't know the background of these languages. So everyone has a clear idea of how different these three languages are. The Gritjinn language at the Baskin language. So it's spoken in North America, both on the Alaska side, the American side, and the Northwest Territories in Canada, and maybe about three to 5,000 or more Gritjinn people. And it's estimated that maybe about 500 people in that group are still speaking the language. The second language going to be talking about is Samoa and the Polynesian language spoken in a place that couldn't be much more different than Gritjinn Pacific Island. The islands of Samoa make up mostly the independent state of Samoa. But there's also some American territories that are Samoan Islands as well. There may be about 250,000 people in the Samoan Islands, and they use the language as their primary language. And they may have 600,000 or more Samoans in the diaspora. It's primarily Australian, New Zealand, America, and their language use is going to be significantly lower. And again, a very different language in a different place. This is a map of Nigeria and Cameroon, showing where I think is spoken on the southern coast of Nigeria bordering Cameroon. And there may be around 600,000 people who use this as their primary language and potentially up to another 2 million people who use it as an additional language for a certain context to communicate with people from other groups. And also with us, Robert Elliott was associate director of the Northwestern Language Institute at the University of Oregon, and so they go come up when you who among other titles is a professor of linguistics at the University of Chicago so we'll get to them a bit later in our discussion. Okay, so with that introduction. Let's start a conversation. It's okay if I turned some of our videos back on for our panelists will hide then. Morning. Hi JC. Good to have you with us. Let's start with you JC would you mind giving us first a greeting or a short introduction in your language. So now I see JC Perth Hagan, and you've, which in England you've actually go and leave. I think I said that backwards. Good morning everyone. My name is JC Perth Hagan, which in from Canada, which in in Alaska. I was born and raised in the New Vic Northwest Territories Canada currently living in Edmonton, Alberta. I'm going to end in Jesus, which in, and the daughter of Sylvia first and Lord Hagan, granddaughter of Sarah McCartney first and John first, Margaret Hagan and Lord Hagan and that's a traditional introduction in my language, which I said in English, but I don't know where I'm from and who my parents and grandparents are and how you should show neatly my heart is happy to be on this panel with you all. Thank you. That's great. Thanks JC. Now some people might know your story already. There's a video or documentary about why you do this as well online, but for those who don't know you could you give a brief introduction of why are you why did you decide to pick up your phone and start promoting language online through social media. I must say thank you. Promoting my language, which and on social media has been a more like more accessible, easier way to get a conversation going and raise awareness towards their languages in particular indigenous languages, such as my own that are in a danger of not being spoken in like a generation or two as I've been told for a majority of my life. Social media is such an accessible way to get a conversation going around so many age groups are used to our elders. And because there is less than 500 approximate speakers in my language standing at 5% of my which nation still speaking the language of around 5000 or so which in and creating a social media platform and a hashtag just follow is has been like an amazing credible initiative and way to start a conversation about my language which in teaching the language creating learning resources, building a conversation and raising awareness and it's been over five years now and here I am on a live panel for the University of London with so many amazing language champions. That's great. Thanks Jesse we'll come back to you with some more questions but just to introduce our other panelists first. Will, would you mind giving us a greeting or short introduction in Samoan. Sure, it's talafalawa yato'uma. A lot of you know, over the amu fanene. I always say, faionga malepule o matonga yagasa moa. Fafataiti anamore avanoa. It talanoa tu yato'u i deneyasu. Basically, my name is Will Fanene and thank you so much for this opportunity. It's great to be here today. And I live in Illinois, the United States, far away from many Samoans, and I actually started up while I grew up in the Samoan culture, most of my life, and then I moved away to come to college. And, but I didn't know the language so I just, I, one day I just said I want to know like I want to know right now. So I knew a lot of words, and I knew that most people in my generation were like myself. And, you know, once I just started putting these resources together, I kind of put the language together for myself it just made sense and it never made sense before. And then I just had this fire and need to, to show other people, because I felt like I connected the dots and I wanted to share that with people like myself. Because there's a lot of shame that comes with not knowing your own language, you know, especially if you grew up in it. And, you know, I'd never figured out why, why I couldn't connect the dots but then what's what said, I'll just kind of clicked and made sense I wanted to share it with everybody so that's, that's pretty much my story on why I got on online I just wanted to share, because it just felt like good news and I didn't want to keep it to myself. That's great. Thanks. Well, we'll come back to you as well the first stage just been as well then would you mind giving us a greeting or introduction in your language. But I think you're still muted. Okay. Can you hear me now. Yes. I mean, I mean to I mean Okay. That's just a brief introduction of saying that my name is Ben, Okon, and I am an effort language teacher, and I'm also a graduate research assistant here in cross river states. I'm so happy to be here this evening, this evening right now in Nigeria. It's a beautiful opportunity to be here. I actually have the strong passion to ensure that the effort language is promoted and the language is preserved over time. So that's just what really, really informed the whole essence of me trying to put up one or two things about the language online. So, basically, in Nigeria. Let me follow up with a more specific question, Ben, because people might wonder, you know, if it's this language that has, you know, millions of people speaking it. So why, why particularly did you feel like, oh, I need to still promote this language, even though it seems like a lot of people speak the language. Okay, yes, so many persons like the language we have about 600,000 speakers, and also probably 2.5 million second language users. Over time, the effort language was one of the major languages in Nigeria as it's where it was, right in the very first language to have an orthography and the very first language to have a dictionary but with time. So that's really, really the interest in the language has really, really reduced. So that's why I thought that social media is one of the major places where people gather, a major community where people gather. So I had to come up with one or two things to ensure that first of the people because the level for the language is quite low. That's why it hasn't really grown to the level of other major languages in Nigeria. You are muted, Joey. I can't hear you. I should unmute myself before I speak. For those of you maybe don't know the Nigerian context, of course, there's hundreds of languages, and there's a few other languages that have even more speakers and I think that kind of seemed like more majority languages in that context. So it's a very complex context in that country. So let me come back to you with a second question as well. What are some of the successes that you've seen the encouragement that you've seen through what you're doing in social media and what are some of the frustrations and challenges. Okay, I've really been encouraged in a very big way. Firstly, a lot of, if a person will not be able to hear from the news as well, they were quite excited that such a project is on. So I've heard a lot of them reaching out mainly for personal classes because most of them migrated while they were kids and they did not have the opportunity to learn the language at first. And also, so it has been a source to reawaken the language in the minds of the people outside the country who are folks probably migrated before time and also current people. It has been a source of inspiration as well because I've seen so many, so many persons have reached out telling me, oh, this is great. We wanted this. I wanted this for my kid. I wanted this for my family and the rest. So it has been worthwhile. I see a lot of persons getting on to also do the little they can in their own social space. I think in the last couple of months that have been active with the social media. I've seen up to three, four persons who have also taken up such responsibility because they are like, wow, this is great. So if somebody is doing this in my own language, I can also do that. Okay, as for the frustrations, it has always been acceptance, trying to get so many persons to accept the fact that it's a complete language, it should be used, not only in the domain of household, it should be used also in the social media domain. So that has been a major source of frustration and also the ability to have pedagogical resources to teach children as well as also being a major challenge in one way or the other. But generally it has been a great endeavor to be part of. Okay, it was a bit unclear with your connection, if your place is sound like you're saying that the challenges are people's mindsets about where the language can it can't be used and should we use on social media and the availability of resources for teaching and for children to use the language. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, thanks for sharing that Ben. JC we'll jump back to you with those same questions what's been encouraging for you in terms of seeing impact and people responding positively and what have been some of the challenges of trying to promote the language through social media. Yes, I'm very happy to say that the hashtag which end of me has been described as a positive movement. There will be a lot of like negativity in the media, regarding like our communities and our nations and happy to be able to. Yeah, create something positive and to share it, and it's been so positive. I think on all my social media is for hashtag speak which end of me it adds up to around 30,000 people I'm sharing to, and that's across so many different social media platforms, as is written on the poster, like, follow the hashtag on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, SoundCloud, where I'll help create and share work made by myself and others to teach which end on social media and to share other work that's been done by such as which and tribal council that works with which and elders to create and language content and preserve our language and teach it. And yeah it's been very beautiful inspiring others to learn the language create their own hashtag speak my language to me movements. And I've been able to travel around the Arctic, giving presentations, as well as doing it remotely, such as right now and to the Canadian UNESCO organization as well as in Mexico. And yeah, I'm very happy to be it's such like a pivotal movement for languages and language revitalization such as being the year of indigenous languages and now the decade of indigenous languages through the United Nations, I believe. What can be challenges or obstacles is like. Yeah, like, when our elder pass with passes away like the whole library, it's such an important member of our nation and we lose so much knowledge and it's yeah it's hard. So when there's like, we don't even know how many speakers are really in my language, maybe there's 200 maybe there's 100 maybe there's less. I was in a one week long immersion languages program from my language and it was really amazing but it's like, yeah the reality of my language like our language speakers may not be speaking all the time and it's only like maybe the same few elders that are working on the language and Yeah, thankfully there's a lot of us like young people that are interested in the language but yeah just kind of saying it from different standpoints and of course it's always could be a little frustrating how do I get more people interested in speaking the language and Yeah, with like, especially when it comes to like social media algorithms trying to get information out there as best as I can, but at the end of the day, like we're all doing our best and there's always going to be the ones that are interested and want to learn the language so I told thank you. That's great thank you JC same questions for you well what would have been some of the positive impacts and results you've seen a good feedback and what's been some of the challenges that you are obstacles you continue to face. Well, I get some great feedback every day as I mean, when I wake up every morning and then I read all these messages from people and, you know, they tell me that they learned more, you know, in the past couple of days and they've learned their whole life. You know that kind of stuff. It really touches me so I mean it keeps me going because at the same time you do have, you know, some negative stuff, you know, I'll get to that in a minute but a lot of people say that they teach their kids to me like the kids to sit down and watch, you know, my instagrams every day and on YouTube as well and so I do have to, you know, kind of be careful on, you know, keep it really kid kid friendly because sometimes I try to mix entertainment with you know with the educational component and so once I realized that and I know the kids are watching so you know that's kind of a it's not a bad thing but it's it's it's it's kind of difficult so that's I guess that's one of the challenges. And to just to be recognized every day get a lot of celebrities and stuff that, you know, I've never had that before so it's kind of like wow, you know, that people are actually watching and they're paying attention and they're sharing it. So, you know, those those have been the main things it's just getting the word out there because it hasn't even been a year where I started doing this and it's like, it just seems very impactful and that's what a lot of people are having to relate to me. In terms of challenges. A lot of elders, you know, that came from Facebook so I avoided Facebook because a lot of them, you know they just people older people have their ways. So I went to Instagram purpose purposefully. I started on, you know, I did Twitter a little bit but I didn't get much traction over there, because they're really, you know, 40 characters or 140 characters, but on Instagram I was able to kind of, you know, capture them in that one minute, you know, and do as much as I can. But the elders, or the people that the native speakers, they kind of some of them feel like you shouldn't teach on social media. So, which I still think is kind of interesting but that's not everybody but that's that's been one of my challenges is, is it respectful, you know, and that's just something that I'm I don't know if social media is new, you know, teaching on social media is new. I don't know what you mean about so I try to keep that balance as well. Being respectful in the Samoan way, because someone is all about respect even in the language, even, you know, one character you can be disrespectful. So I try to make sure that I really walk that line. You know, and then also to in terms of resources, there's not, there's not many very available resources out there. So you have people that speak only slang Samoan, which is very different from the book Samoan. So then when I'm on there teaching, especially when I first started, you know, almost every day someone say that's not a word that's not right that it's not this but I get I get everything from the book and then I cross reference with mom and, you know, people in my family. But they're older, but then you have younger kids saying that's I never heard that word before that's not like that can't be a word and then the same thing the older people say well that's who says that that's not. So I had to make sure that all of my information is, you know, something that, you know, first of all is true and accurate, and then also, you know, something that everybody can can relate to. And then if it is just like I have to bring that out if it's if it's just something that they say in the books I have to bring that out so that's just another challenge but you know it's not really an obstacle is just things that I need to be very cognizant of when I'm when I'm making my videos on social media. It sounds like you have lots of different audiences you're potentially reaching out once and maybe they have conflicting priorities. Right, right. Exactly. Thanks. We'll be sure to get back to some of these topics I want to bring in our linguistics experts Robert Elliott and person when you, if we can get your videos rolling again. And Robert will go to you first with the question you've worked a lot with teaching languages and creating digital media to help teach as well. I don't really think anyone's probably going to go through a Twitter feed or, you know, Instagram stories and learn a language entirely that way but how does social media from your perspective, become effective in helping people who want to learn or encouraging people to learn. Thank you Joey. First of all, she might ski good morning from Oregon. It's a real pleasure to be on this panel with will Ben and JC it's it's fantastic to meet you and hear about the work that you guys are doing. It sounds really really interesting and dynamic and useful for the audiences you're working with. Joey, yeah, I think the short answer to your to your question is, is, yes, people are not going to learn language necessarily completely from social media or from digital sources, but at the same time it does add a lot. And so I want to try to summarize what it can add I think because I'm hearing a lot of that from from the part of the panelists today of exactly what they're doing that that we can see across broad spectrums of different language groups that that seem to really be working and helping in these situations. So, so I think, first of all, technology really functions as an extension or an augmentation of the learning process. Nothing can really substitute for that intergenerational learning the natural learning of language. Whenever that's possible that's always the best but but the social media the technology can supplement that and augment that and help that encourage it and go along. So there's some ways that I think that happens one is we've heard a little bit about working with younger learners and I think younger learners in particular gravitate towards technology. I've seen it with my own children, how they just really go to technology and also when I'm visiting immersion schools with languages and you see that the children really want to get on technology. And they feel comfortable in that space so it's and I think it's very important that that that languages are represented in those spaces to because there's a natural gravitation towards there. The second thing I'm thinking about is the time and space aspects that technology can can break down. So it's the anytime anywhere learning nature of that technology can do so that you can pop out your phone at home or on the bus or on your break at work and you can interact with the language in those those places and without technology. You have to have another speaker of the language close by in order to actually do that so that anytime any place aspect breaks down the barriers of time and space that I think that can allow more opportunities for for working with language. The third thing I'm thinking about is is is how the language can be validated in in in using technology. So I've seen cases where sometimes young people feel that our language there isn't really a lot of use for our language. I'm not sure where it's kind of an older thing but but by seeing language represented on some of the newer platforms people feel that oh okay my language can has a right to be there too. It's it's it's it's great to see that and there's a place for this for my language here it doesn't have to be left out of this new realm. So but just by seeing that it can some people talk about language prestige or relevance of the language. Some people don't like that term but but I just wanted to say that I think that people recognize their language online and that validates and makes them feel that there's a place for their language. The final thing that I'm thinking a little bit about is that the it just carves out another space or domain or use a place that people can use the language. So so you know what a lot of the languages that I work with we were in similar to JC's case where we have very few speakers and some of the languages even there are no speakers left that I've worked with. And so they're working with documented materials so the opportunities for using language are very very few very rare. So what I think the technology can do is actually allow create spaces that if you're in a very dispersed case like will was talking about how they've got people all over the place he's in Illinois and the communities are back in Samoa. He can bridge he can actually create a room to to interact and use the language using technology that we wouldn't be able to do otherwise. So those four things I think are things I'm little aspects I'm hearing from each of the panelists today and I think that those though they're using technology and in really in a lot of the ways that they that we know that it helps benefit even though we know it can't completely supplant face to face natural language learning. Great. Thanks, Robert. In a bit we'll come back to some of those topics so if we'll been a JC if you have any questions or comments you want to make me be keep those in your mind or write them down but first we're going to go to Professor Moffini and make sure he has a chance to to give us some input. I guess when you've written a lot about why people do it and don't speak languages why they start or stop speaking a language, and in some of your work you've emphasized the economic pressures that people face, and that seems to be really one of the overwhelming factors and why people shift from one language to another. In these cases some of the languages that will Ben and JC are promoting aren't languages where the people necessarily feel that so it's too economic pressure they don't necessarily get an immediate benefit from it. But still these people are online trying to encourage others to speak the language despite the lack of economic motivation to do so. From your perspective, what other motivations are there? What can they tap into when there is no more economic motivation to speak a language? How do they really encourage people to change their language use? I just said in Kiyansi, greetings to all of you, and I said my name as it would be said in Kiyansi, often with my last name said often coming at the beginning rather than last. And I'm from the Democratic Republic of Congo. I've been gone for over 40 years. In that period I think I have come only twice or three times across people that could speak Kiyansi. So my Kiyansi is very much the only language that heard me out there probably would be laughing because I spoke it with an accent, although it is my very first language. Joey, coming back to your commentary and question, what sounds particularly relevant to me in the context of this webinar is the affordability of the technology. And one thing I want to underscore here to wish Robert Taylor alluded is the fact that the mass media are complementing what would be our natural social interactions. In the modern world, traditional societies, as you said, traditional communities have been disrupted, and a lot of them have become spontaneous so that members of these communities are no longer at the same place and don't have the traditional opportunities to practice their languages. And these are very critical factors either in sustaining the language if you stay together, if you stay connected, and the mass media are doing precisely that, or if you cannot stay connected. Then you practice your language less and less, then your competence in the language becomes rusty. If your competence is rusty and you have children, you cannot transmit the language to your children anymore because sometimes you think, you know, what's the point of trying to speak a language that doesn't speak a language. There are many other factors. But what I also want to highlight here is that the new technology of mass media comes with a lot of constraints. It's a technology that is predicated essentially on electricity. Whether you use a telephone or you use your computer, you need power. And if you look at space maps of the world in the dark, you'll see that there are a whole lot of work. The world is still in the dark. There are only some places that I really wanted. And that means that there are a lot of people out there that cannot afford electricity or simply do not have access to electricity at all. And even when you have a telephone and your telephone doesn't have to be connected to a source power all the time, there are times when you cannot recharge your telephone, which means you cannot remain connected with the rest of the world. And if you have a computer, it's the same kind of constraint. And that's where economic factors become particularly relevant. In a territory, in a policy where economy is strong and where the telephone is easily affordable, where people have access to electricity, the social media are going to do a great job. If you are in a party where a large proportion of the population can afford a computer and a lot of these apps that you can use, you use them on your computer and you have regular access to electricity, the mass media are going to work fantastically. But one thing that we have discovered around the world, especially with this pandemic, is that even in countries of the economic north, of the global north, that is the developed countries, there are still segments of the population that are disenfranchised. So these are limits that we have to overcome. Otherwise, it's super that people have become creative and imaginative enough to domesticate the technology and make it to serve some of our community needs. And make it to serve our endeavor to revitalize or maintain languages that are really in the around the world. And what I appreciate very much about this technology is that even if you are thousands of miles apart, you can still remain connected with your family in your homeland or with your friends that have gone to different places. And the more regularly you interact, the more likely your knowledge of the language is going to be maintained and your language is not necessarily embedded. So even if you cannot use your language in the public domain, you can still use it in your private domain. And these are the ways, some of the ways in which you can sustain the vitality of the language. When I said my knowledge of the answer has become rusty, it's largely because when I emigrated from the Congo and came to the United States, there was no cell phone yet at the time in the 1970s. Most people in the Congo could not afford the landline phone. And therefore I couldn't communicate regularly with members of my family. I'm a linguist, I can write my language that the people at home couldn't read what I would write in Chiang. And so technology really constrained me from using my language on a regular basis. But that technology depends on economic power, which means that a whole fold of economic development that must be factored in. So endeavours by Ben, by Bill and by JC are really first words that should be encouraged. But we should embed these endeavours in the broader context where we exert more pressure on politicians to invest more in economic development so that they can support such efforts. That's what I can say. Great, thank you very much. Professor. Yeah, so it sounds like in summary the motivation there is the social connections that you're able to maintain people who are far away and that's a major factor and what would motivate people to continue speaking their language using the technology. But of course that requires this minimum amount of economic development that's not present everywhere in the world. So using social media of course is not a one size fits all solution for everyone. And I think even these three languages here, you know are going to have different methods and different places where it works better or not. Let me go right back to will Ben and JC. After hearing from Robert and Sally Coco, do you guys have any questions or responses or what are you thinking about in response to what they've shared. Then you want to unmute yourself and go ahead. I think I'd like to ask Robert question. And it's also based on the observation I've had. I know I have a good community on Facebook who are actually very interested in following up what I do. And while trying to teach on the counting system of the effort language. I had the idea of getting a call credit, which has been, and I changed the numbers from English numbers to the effort numbers, so that anybody who could crack the numbers could actually get the reward which is the pin the call credit or they were using making telephone calls. Okay, so I discovered that messages and posts like that do attract traffic. So, Robert with your experience in teaching language, could you please talk more on the place of reinforcement and rewards in motivating people to learn language, either first language or second language. That's a really great question, Ben, and something people are really looking at for the last few years. There's something called gamification that they talk about when it comes to language learning technology. And gamification basically means making these things like a puzzle or there's an award or reward or a badge that you get when you work through a set of materials so people feel like they've gotten that reinforcement. That's exactly what you're talking about. So the fact that you kind of came up with that on your own, I think is wonderful that there's a reward they get the phone card by solving the puzzle by figuring out the numbers. There's a lot of evidence that suggests that technology can do this and that it's very effective for keeping learners coming back for more. They get really engaged that way. And that said, ultra competitiveness is not a part of every culture. And so being overly competitive sometimes you just want to watch those boundaries a little bit so that people aren't feeling like I never win or sometimes cooperative learning is also quite useful where you get people cooperating rather than competing. So I think knowing the cultural group that you're working with is really important and probably also for many groups kind of mixing up what you do. So sometimes it's more cooperative learning. Sometimes it might be a little bit of competitiveness, but I think that idea of experimenting and trying things out is perfect. That's wonderful. It sounds like a really good way to go. Thank you. Thanks, Robert. Will or Jason, do you have any questions or comments you want to throw in? I'm just going to take it there though. Oh, go ahead, Jason. Okay. Yeah, thank you to your speakers. And as long as I thank you for mentioning for a doctor professor through the front station Sally Coco. I think a lot of my nation doesn't have access to the Internet or connectivity. And that's really important, a really important aspect, especially as we move forward in the digital age to how a people without a connection or even electricity are kind of getting left behind and even ignored in some cases. I wanted to say something about that is near and dear to my heart and I hope to work further connecting people that are connected through social media as an example and to Robert. I'm just curious to see what do you find that works when it comes to social media initiatives and language revitalization particular to for languages that don't have very many speakers or any at all. Thank you. So, I was out of question JC that you want to know what works. Yeah, if you don't mind answering. Oregon, we have nine federally recognized tribes and other groups and each group is very different than the other group. And then we're working with other, you know, and then seeing the diversity of language situations and contexts, everyone is really different. So it's hard to draw any broad conclusions that of what works across situations. I did want to say something I did hear like will talking a little bit about one caution of working with elders who sometimes don't feel the language should be put out. So that's always a tough balance, because sometimes elders feel that they shouldn't be recorded. And, but at the same time we know that the younger learners are engaged and interested by this so how do you balance that respecting what the elders wishes are, and what the young people might be engaged with and so that's that's such a tough balance to do. And so, you know, it, every people I've people I've worked with it just kind of having to find a slightly different way to work with that that works for them and then their community and their elders. Other, I mean, and I would say the same thing. I don't know that I could say any broad thing that works. Sometimes I think it's important, though, that like we're seeing right now with the COVID happening that we didn't have conferences with zoom like we're having now. We didn't have meetings constantly like zoom like we have now and, and everybody has had to just jump in and do it. And we've all made mistakes. And that's, I think is, and, and, but we're all learning and getting better at it. And, and so Joey is doing a fantastic job with putting this kind of conference together and getting us communicating ideas. And so I think for a lot of the social media stuff, you have to just jump in and try it, being respectful of the elders wishes and other people in the community, but at the same time, don't hesitate if it's not perfect. Don't wait for just the right opportunity. Try something out and you will make mistakes, but you'll learn from that and you'll have a better next time you go about it, you'll be better at it, and you'll, and you'll find what works for your community. And also, the other thing that came up was for the audience, like if you're working with young kids versus older people, you might have some different kind of humor that's involved or engagement. So just, you have to jump in and do it and try it and you'll learn from that so don't sit back and wait and wait for the perfect. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the, the good enough, I guess, would would be my suggestion on that. Thanks, Robert. Well, did you have a question or comment as well. I just wanted to say, I absolutely agree with what Robert was what he just said, it's very encouraging to because I mean people say some nasty stuff, you know, coming from online. So, you know, when you do make a mistake, you're almost ready to just give up like what why am I even doing this, but, but you have way more. You know, way more people encouraging you and thanking you and all of that. So, but I mean, almost every day, I make a mistake if you had other people, you know, if they tell me yeah, you know they're, I'm making mistakes every single day. So, you know, just trying to figure out my community and I guess, you know, I'm one of the only ones and just like everyone else here. You're one of the only ones if not the only one doing it for your for your community. So, it's just, I guess it's a matter of staying encouraged and what having to think enough skin to make it through all of that. And I guess I was to just, you know, maybe documenting everything so that someone else can can come behind you and not make those same mistakes. You know, hopefully that's something everyone at least at least that's what I'm thinking when from what after what Robert just said and what everyone else is saying, you know, putting something together. I don't know what you call it, maybe a curriculum or something where people are. They just kind of know the rules or at least what worked for you. And then, you know, can kind of, you know, make a road for someone else to go so that they don't have to go over those same obstacles. It's, you know, stumbling blocks, so they can just get right into the content because ultimately that's what I want to do I just want to put the content out there so that you can learn. But there, when you're going through social media, and you don't have, you don't have a way like you don't have any other references like all of these things are blocking you from getting the content out. Because you just know what's ever done it before. At least, not that I know of so if there is somebody who has done it I would like to get there. You know, I picked their brain so I wouldn't have to go through a lot of this side side stuff, you know. Could I could I just add something to that because it is you made me think of something that I think is also very I think that's super critical to chart what you do to help others that are coming later. But the other thing is a lot of technology platforms come and go. So what's popular now will not be popular in two years or five years, or 10 years down the line. So what I think is really, really important to do or valuable to do is to keep those source materials easily adaptable to a new environment. So keep them stored, keep them labeled well, keep them so that they're ready to be repurposed into some other technology platform that comes around and becomes popular a few years down the line and you won't have to recreate everything from scratch. So be careful of something that you put everything up there. And then when that product is gone, it's all locked in there. You want it to you want to keep those original material language materials which are like gold those are so valuable for you, keep those for yourself and for other people that may end up working in the area as well. You made me think of tick tock. The social media are telling us something about how technology can be used to keep languages alive. The social media telling us that you can extrapolate from that particular level and use different languages in the media in general. There should be room for sharing time in the larger media and making different languages present in the media. But this is also predicated on economic development and there are ways of solving some of the problems in places where people cannot afford individual for instance. There may be a central in the village, large place where people gather and they can go and watch TV in their land. Okay, and everything needed to be broadcast at the national level, it can be organized so that people can see this at the local level. And so here we are talking about economic development on two levels, at the level of the individual but also at the level of governments at the level of nations where they can give opportunities to people to practice their languages. And speaking of motivation, you get more motivation when you see other people interact in your language. Then you find it useful. Very often people give up their languages because those languages become redundant. Or should I say useless in the environment in which they are because they have no motivation for using them. Several people have said in their literature where people lose pride in their language is not a matter of pride, what people use are opportunities to use their language. Then we should create those opportunities and technology is there to enable us to continue to create more and more opportunities for people to use. Thanks, that's really important that promoting languages on social media is one part of a bigger picture you also need the space and the opportunity to use the language. You also need enough structural support or at least not sending any structural oppression that's keeping people from from using the language as well. I've got a bunch of questions coming in from YouTube so I just want to get to at least some of those before we have to wrap up our session. One was a practical question for Will, Ben and JC and what platforms you're using. I think you're all using different platforms for different reasons in social media. What's been your experience, what works for what context and what's your preference for social media platforms. Okay, personally I use the YouTube platform, the Twitter and also LinkedIn and Facebook. Yes, so I think the experience has been massive. Basically people will adapt short texts because they want to read much. People will be able to make use on YouTube and so people will be able to make use of it. I had a bit of trouble hearing you at the end there, Ben. Can you just repeat the last thing you said? Okay, I said that I use YouTube, LinkedIn, Facebook and Twitter. I think the question was the platforms I use and each of these platforms I ensure that... For example, the Twitter short texts are okay because people don't want to spend much time to read on long threads and also on Facebook some short trivia just to capture the antenna of people and also on YouTube probably some added use and something they could play with. So longer content on YouTube and just short bits on Twitter, Facebook. What about you, Will? You said you preferred Instagram for your audience. Are you branching out to other platforms as well? Right, well, I'm also on YouTube. The same videos that I put on Instagram I put on YouTube as well. But I didn't really promote it as much. I made an app earlier this year. So that app kind of takes people to YouTube. Like I said, I don't really promote the YouTube. I probably should. But Instagram, like I said, most of my audience, they're my age and younger. So people 40 on down to five years old. And again, like I said, Facebook really didn't work my community. Because like I said, most of the elders are out there and they just had everything. They had something to say about everything I put out. And then I figured you already know the language so I don't need to be over here anyway. I started trying to do a TikTok but I just couldn't figure out the platform. And then by the time I was really about to get into it, I heard it was going to get shut down, but it didn't. So I just left the TikTok alone. So right now I'm on Instagram and I do have my online class. So people come to Zoom a couple of times a week and we'll learn and we'll speak on there. But for the most part, in terms of social media, it's primarily Instagram. Have you seen any overlap with people that you've encouraged to use the language through Instagram, going to those Facebook groups and becoming more active participants and using the language? That I'm not sure about because I rarely use Facebook. I only go on there if I get a notification from a family member or something like that. But that's, I'm glad you mentioned that's something I'm going to check. What I encourage people to do on Instagram or people that messaged me from other platforms is just to go out and use the language. And just use what you learned because there's so many, and Samoza, you realize how many dialects and how many people speak differently just around the world. Like Samoza all over the world in different pockets. So I just tell them to go out and use it. And I just kind of teach them a general book format and then they'll just have to adapt to because they're going to whoever they're around, you're going to tell them, you need to say it like this, you need to say it like that. Or, you know, they'll just pick up how they're speaking. And so, and I've heard a lot of that. They just said, okay, we left the class or I tried this from Instagram and then I went out and, you know, spoke it. And, you know, I just kind of adapt it. So, you know, it's, it's effective. It's just, you know, a different way of doing it. What about you? What's been your experience with different platforms? Yeah, for me, it's some, I can say that Twitter over the years was like my number one platform for a while. Everything I've posted was there's so much engagement. And now it's kind of leading to more, more towards Instagram. I get a lot more engagement, comments, but on Facebook, everything's kind of shared more widely. As an example, I have like a few people help me advertise this panel. My YouTube and SoundCloud doesn't really get much traction, but I also don't really advertise it. But like, as long as there's a hashtag to follow on major social media sites, there's a video content to learn and sound clip content like I'm happy. Anyone that just wants to learn could just type which in and then my hashtag so speak which end of me will most likely come up. And the other than that, I'm just really just pushing content out in the world for anyone that wants to learn. With YouTube is tricky. I think that there's two different YouTubes now, like a child friendly YouTube and a general YouTube. And I don't know much about that. And I was also thinking about diving a TikTok because it's so popular right now. But I looked at it and for someone that's almost in their 30s like me, I don't really understand how to create content on it. But it's so popular right now. And I really like the point where how fast social media sites can come and go, which is really a reminder for me if Facebook ever shuts down one day. And I can really relate to what Ben says as well as wanted to add that in there as well as I'm not fluent in my language and a lot of even I learned from dictionaries and elders, particularly my own grandmother. People say it's still all like, I don't know what I can do. Yeah, that's great. Thanks to everyone for sharing. We're just about at the end of our hours together so I don't want to take too much time. But let me ask if Robert or Sally Coco, do you have any final words of insight or encouragement you'd like to give to the three social language advocates. I would just reiterate what I said earlier just just jump in just do it just keep it going. I think you guys are doing good things and it'll pay off in the long run. Thank you so much for coming for me. Would you like to offer any last advice. Well, I agree with Robert. I think that you deserve a lot of encouragement. This is being created in a positive way. And thank you very much for, you know, setting up models for other people to follow. Thank all of you for, you know, what you're doing and taking that risk to put yourselves out there, just to share your love for your language encourage people to use it and learn it. Thanks for taking your time to come and be with us. This webinar, hope it's been encouraging helpful for you as well as for those who are listening. Obviously there was a lot more that we could have talked about this conversation couldn't go on for hours but we hope it continues and other venues wherever you are. And maybe you'll be able to talk with more friends or share more with other people online about what you're doing. So thanks for being a part of it's been really a pleasure. Glad you're all able to join us and hope you have a great rest of your day or evening wherever you are. Thank you everybody. Thank you.