 Okay, it looks like we're live So to anyone to everyone else out there watching. Thanks for tuning in. This is our third year in a row of doing a at-home pride edition with EFF I'm daily daily Barnett. I'm a staff technologist here at the electronic frontier foundation So happy to be doing this again with everyone with some returning guests and some new ones as well I think we can do some quick introductions and then we can get into our panel on queer optimism, which is the Elusive theme I would say especially lately. Maybe we can tease that out a bit and get something meaningful So I'm just gonna call y'all each out and maybe you can just give us a couple, you know A few words about yourself and where you're coming from and then we can get into it Tracy would you like to start us off? Hi, yes I'm Tracy McDaniel. I'm the executive director and founder of Jets Wilson for transformation and corporate it and Co-founder trans housing Atlanta program that provides housing services to people that are housing challenge and I'm also the current chair of the Atlanta citizen review board for my Second term six year final term serving as the chair and I'm so happy to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me to participate Well, thank you for joining us. I'm truly honored that you're here. It's it's a Truly a pleasure. Thank you so much So I'm just going in order of what I'm seeing on my screen. So, you know, just letting y'all know Chelsea, do you like to go next? You're muted Hi, I'm Chelsea. So I'm Chelsea Manning. I I I'm well known For some stuff in 2010 and going to prison But lesser known is sort of my more recent work, which is I am currently a security consultant I am an expert in sort of providing for privacy services as well I work for it. I work for a number of different organizations now as a as a security and privacy consultant and you know, I'm just providing sort of whether it's bit, you know, Based on your threat model whether you're an activist to the few like on on the ground here in the US Or you know doing abortion active, you know, abortion based activism has been the thing that has cropped up more recently Or if you're an organization and you're out working out in the field like internationally, you know NG international NGOs and things like that. I sort of specialize in providing consulting services For based on whether or not you're dealing with a with a large state actor, whether you're an individual whether you're an NGO Or, you know, like whatever threat model that you're you're facing. I provide security consulting That's great and certainly needed right now. There's a lot of people that are Needing help with their with their privacy security enough sec. So thanks Chelsea and thanks again for joining us I think you were here last year, right? So pleasure to have you again Um Kachina would you like to go next? Sure, my name is Kachina Rune. I pronouns are he or she. I am a drag queen and I am working in the San Francisco Bay Area. I am just somebody who hosts a show and I also do harm reduction related work and activism I've been active as a harm reductionist in the Bay Area for about 10 years a little less than 10 years and Most recently I'm working on a Narcan distribution project for nightlife community members in the queer community in San Francisco given the increase in overdose related deaths In the United States in general. So I'm very happy to be here and I'm very honored to be Here alongside this this panel. So thank you Thank you I mean, I am like so dazzled that you are joining us because I think I saw you host princess like When I first moved here like a few years ago or maybe it was like a year ago When I first saw you like after I don't know when you started doing it But and you did like a you know the Narcan section and I was like so gagged that I was like seeing that on stage and then I'm also just like really glad we finally have a harm redux person to join us and talk a bit about that So, thank you. Thank you um blunt Hey, nice to see you You want to go next? Oh, um, you're muted. I just clicked button, but I failed. Okay. Hey, I'm blunt. I use she they pronouns I am a disabled sex worker an organizer a public health researcher and co-founder Of hacking hustling. I'm currently a senior civic media fellow at usc's annenberg innovation lab And I've been working with the digital defense fund to provide folks with abortion access movement with Cross-movement digital security trainings for people working and living in criminalized economies and Also just so stoked to be here with y'all Thank you. It's so good to see you as always. Um, I feel like we've met before Yeah, maybe through hacking hustling Maybe somewhere Yeah, something like that. Um, but I'm looking forward to you guys telling us a bit more about that You know a bit further on um Hey charlie Charlie jane. Oh, my apologies. I've been calling you just okay charlie jane. Pleasure to meet you. Thank you for joining us It was a little intro. Yes, lovely to be here. I'm charlie jane anders. I'm the all I'm a science fiction fantasy author Most recently. I'm writing a young adult space opera Trilogy the first book is called victories greater than death and the second book just came out It's called dreams bigger than heartbreak I also wrote a book about how to write your way out of hard scary times called Never say you can't survive and a lot of my work deals with kind of like absurd situations and characters who are Trying to do their best and take care of each other in the middle of like everything being terrible um, I Increasingly my work has a huge focus on queer community and queer chosen family kind of standing together against the darkness Well, I mean that is so in line with what we're talking about today. So I'm so glad you're here. I'm such a fan Yeah, what a delight all of you. Uh, so let's let's launch into it. Um, uh, you know, so I We pitched this idea a few months back my colleagues and I were talking about queer optimism and maybe that could be the theme and As you know, the months kind of went on this year It just like it seemed more and more like untenable to think about uh in like a realistic way I mean, there's a lot to be pessimistic about right. There's over 240 anti-lgbt bills that have been proposed Just this year Over 700 since 2018. These are all like each year is like a record number, you know of like new bills Obviously the elephant in the room is Roe v. Wade just got overturned which um You know, I'm not saying you heard it here first, but that's a queer issue obviously um sasta fosta 2018 Harming the integrity of free speech online and especially hurting like queer communities There's just like this is just like the tip of the iceberg. There is so much So with all this horrible stuff going on I'm curious if um, I could just like ask generally to anyone that wants to chime in here um What if anything is giving you hope lately like where where are you sourcing your optimism from? I can start It's tracy Well, you know what though this world feels like it's it's falling apart all around us with the pandemic and all the trends and gender non-conforming non-binary People anti laws And once again, we're being used as a wedge a political wedge issue With rhetoric and the nonsense that threatens our very existence. There's always hope um, I'm excited about you know And looking forward to a brighter future full of opportunities and life reform and possibilities However, in the meantime Don't be discouraged and don't be distracted by the shenanigans that are going on with our politicians all over this country register and vote Register and voting is our superpower that will make meaningful changes in the long run So so make sure that regardless of what's going on. We we we use our power to vote that will speak volumes for us Wow, thank you. I mean that means a lot coming from you because you're you know, as you mentioned you're doing all this work operating in so many different intersections of Marginalized and harmed communities. So it's great to hear you People to access the kind of optimism and tell us that there's hope. Thank you Anyone else I'll jump in. I got a lot of oh, sorry. Chelsea you go. You go. Charlie go Charlie jane. So go ahead Okay. Well, I got a lot of hope from going to the trans march The other day here in San Francisco Getting to be surrounded by other trans people and other queer people Who were just like a giant mob of us going down? Dolores street and onto market street just like showing our presence and showing our power And showing that we were unified and honestly when I think about queer hope in general Lately I think about community. I don't think about like us. You know, I feel like People often think of this stuff in terms of like will the mainstream accept us will the will mainstream people Welcome us and I don't really think of it in those terms. I think of it as our community is growing strong and holding together and supporting us and our communities Kind of taking care of their most vulnerable members and over time our marginalized communities joining together with other marginalized communities Until we eventually are the minority until we eventually are the majority And until we eventually Are the mainstream and those people who consider themselves the mainstream now Can just sit back and listen to us for a change Uh, so I really think that The more we can strengthen our communities and the more we can reach out to people and make sure that everybody's okay And that marginalized people especially are okay The more I have hope for the future Wow, agreed. I completely sympathize with you about the the trans march. That was like that is my source of joy lately um seeing like sex worker rights Trans rights and reproductive rights all represented so clearly in a space like that by so many people was like Really giving me hope too um Chelsea you were going to chime in you want to say some? Looks like we're having some technical technical errors Chelsea dropped out as being I Was figuring out internet stuff What so optimism is definitely like not my go to so I thought it was kind of funny when I was invited to this panel But I thought of it as a challenge Which I think we all need to I think this is a hard Brain space to access all the time um, and I think it's really important to acknowledge how hard and difficult this moment is and how like how shitty things are and like we are There are so many folks who are new to living in criminalized spaces and the way folks are responding can exacerbate fear and dread And those fears are very real. Shit is not good and Things will get worse. I swear. I'm going somewhere positive um But I really think of mariam capa's words. Hope is a discipline because it is it's a fucking practice And my personal expertise as a dominatrix. I am familiar with a very different type of discipline um But I woke up from a dream this morning I think I was having a dream which was not a nightmare about this panel And I wrote down just the words despite the dread and I made a list And I was thinking about dread And despite the dread people living in criminalized economies or whose behaviors or identities are criminalized have established deep networks of care and support We survive because of our relationships with each other not because of our relationships with the state When the state criminalizes our survival our behaviors our identities we strive towards survival time and time again Despite the dread we have each other We have our communities and our communities are connected and we can continue to build our relationships and deepen our ties with community We can continue to build and foster cross movement relationships and strive towards survival Despite the dread a horse have taught me everything that I know about love about care about support about mutual aid And about how to survive and I have so much left to learn I am not done learning And I wanted to end with just a brief quote from my friend ease and organize over the red canary so long Who said what if we all of us were all trying to extend possibilities between us? And I think that's something that we can all work to do and that's something that gives me Oh, thank you I I don't know how to respond to that other than um I think I need a moment to process that. Thank you for chiming in. Thank you. Um Chelsea Looks like you're back. Um, you're muted right now though, but Yeah, I don't know what's going on. Uh, I have very stable internet. So I shouldn't have any issues. Um, anyway, um, so, yeah Generally, uh, when it comes to optimism, I I'm generally optimistic even though the short term outlook I don't think uh, is so great. Um, but what the reason why and That sort of doesn't make sense if you ask someone like, oh, are you optimistic? Well, you know the short term I'm very pessimistic. Um, but I think I look towards the arc of history, you know, the the our historical trends You know, uh, it wasn't that long ago that queer and trans people were highly criminalized and and some segments of of the queer and trans community Never left the segment of criminalization. Um And uh, you know, it's just it's just uh, you know, it was 70 years ago before, you know, like, uh, a lot of the uh, the civil rights, uh, your effect effects started to to to take place within the rest of Of at least within the united states, uh, uh, culture. Um, so I think that uh, I think that it's trend that While we while we've certainly had, uh, reactionary sort of backlash as before, you know I'm thinking of the late 70s throughout the the 80s and the raking era Um, we've always had we've always sort of banded together as a community and you know, and as activists Have resisted at every at every stage. We've also, uh, you know, been sort of the the activists You know, we sort of held the torch of the activist model for the last four, you know, 40 or 50 years in particular Throughout all this time whenever a lot of this it would be this more activist institutional knowledge was starting to be When activists started to turn institutional, you know, progressive activism started to switch into the more institutional folds with, uh, you know, ngos and and interest groups and things like that So I think that activism that that's been more grassroots has sort of been coming from the queer and trans Communities in particular and as as that the institutional knowledge has stayed That's one of the reasons why, you know, in resistance to the the trump administration and now the reactionary backlash We've we've we already have our infrastructure at place To be able to address these things to be able to look out for the community to be able to protect ourselves And yeah, well in the short term things are not looking so so bright But we've we've certainly overcome, you know reactionary backlash is before And we've certainly uh, and we've certainly learned from them and we've certainly Retained the knowledge and experience That we've had to be able to grow and to thrive as communities Under these kinds of conditions as before, you know, thinking back to the hiv epidemic and, you know, a pandemic in particular You know, so I think that we you know, we've survived as community. We've survived, you know, our as as our as our own As our own community as our own As our own chosen family before I see no reason why we can't do that again. Um, you know, even in the face of of increased You know institutional institutional and now legal pressure That is true. It's a good reminder to like take a step back Look at the big picture before getting, you know stuck on the details and feeling feeling doom Oh, I know also like listen to your elders because like I I've a lot of the stuff Come comes from, you know Elders from within the queer trans community because I always go, you know, whenever whenever I'm feeling rough I always I always ask somebody who's who's been around for 30 40 years doing this that kind of activism You know, hey, like it, you know, has it has it been this bad before and they're like, oh, yeah It was way worse, you know in the 80s Yeah, for anyone that's out there that like, you know queer people that are recognizing They have that divide between them and the generations that have come before like Organizations this in new york, there is sage here in the bay area. There's an open house There's like organizations where you can make the sort of connection with elders Yeah, there's a lot of history in new york with with act up as well. So oh, yeah, I mean I that was my first Thing in new york was joining act of the act up mondays The all the queens there they will they will tell you some stories Um, all right, so, uh, kachina not to put you on the spot, but you haven't um, if you want if you wanted to chime in on Something of optimism here before it launched into the into the nitty gritty questions. Sure. I'm happy to so when I Actually similarly to uh, mr. Splann. I was thinking optimism. Huh, that's funny. I don't think of myself necessarily as an optimistic person, but uh, you know just briefly I think that Um, you know, given the political circumstances Nowadays and things just seem to be getting worse and worse for our community all the time, you know And I I speak from a place of privilege. You know, I'm a I'm a cisgender gay man And I this is a costume, you know, but my drag mother was a trans woman And she had been around for 30 years in the bay area and The people in my life who have taught me the things that I know Are sex workers are transgender people are people of color People who have experienced homelessness people who use drugs and I've been several of those things myself and so All I can ever think of when it comes to, you know, the Uh, the apocalypse that we seem to be facing at all times is welcome to the fucking party. We've been here It's been bad. It's been bad for marginalized communities just to Echo what, you know, other panelists have already described And so, um, something that actually does give me hope is, you know, similarly to what chelsea was just saying too is Is um, thinking about what my predecessors in the queer community have done thinking about the things that uh, people who have been around doing this What I'm doing what I'm doing is not new or unique and Uh, people who have done things before me have faced Much greater resistance, right? And so that's something that keeps me going The best that I can ever do is Let my actions speak for themselves. And I think that we all have a responsibility to, you know, with you to use our visibility Uh, to insight change. I mean, uh Who who was it that said? Um Existence is resistance, right? We're here Period Period Yeah, damn um Thank you Uh, all right, I mean that that alone like hearing you all chime in here about where you're sourcing from has really has already lifted my spirits up Because um, I know I needed that and I'm probably not alone there So, thank you. Um, so I wanted to say before we get into the these like nitty gritty questions that, um Uh, the people out there who are watching on on youtube and twitch and on the eff live stream page um We're going to do a q&a portion in about 20 minutes or so Um, we'll keep it kind of brief But if you have any questions for any of our panelists feel free to just launch them in there and um, we're keeping track of them and we'll um We'll uh, we'll we'll float them up and and and and ask our panelists Uh, so going into it, um, uh a couple year here are artists, uh, kachina and charlie jane um and I want to ask about like the role that art can play um in in shaping a Better future like imagining better futures. Um, so, uh I guess kachina just to go back to you Uh, could you like tell us a bit about about about your drag and also I mean you didn't mention it, but i'm a fan of your band the lollygaggers I wonder if you can talk about that too Sure, i'm happy to so just the thing I think just to put it out there first and foremost is that I have no idea what the fuck i'm doing I'm not I don't have an agenda Okay, like I'm literally just doing me and i'm doing the things that i'm passionate about And i'm not very good at compromising. So I just try to do everything that I can Um, whether it be artistically or activism wise or through my work or whatever I'm I'm born and raised in the san francisco bay area. So I do have a lot of history here. Um, my Band I have a band called lollygaggers or a punk band. Um formed in 2017 Um, we it's actually not related to my Drag really it's a separate project, but um, I've also been doing dragon. Um in san francisco bay areas for close to six years and so um, all that's to say that, you know I think that my interest in my activism is is not really unique or special but like I said before but I just don't really believe in pre-packaging myself or I don't believe in Having like a brand, you know, and so the thing with like drag especially is that post rupal's drag race It's all about how you can market yourself being a drag queen itself is not unique or interesting to people anymore, right? And so if i'm gonna have to play this game, then I might as well just do me, right? Because that's something that is When essentially unique to me, right? I don't really think that I should have to choose an image I don't really think that I should have to pick one thing I I just think that I should just be able to do whatever it is that I want and so whether that be, you know Lip syncing to my band's music or that be, you know handing out Narcan at my drag show Whatever, I don't care. I'm gonna do it. I'm just gonna do it. And so, uh Does that answer your question? It's completely and I it's so identified with not knowing what the fuck i'm doing. I feel like A lot of us kind of have that Uh, I mean at least I certainly do. I don't know what i'm doing Yeah, I mean I I also I'm an I'm an anarchist. I don't really believe in Whatever this economic system that we live in, you know, but we're part of it and so I I don't Want to do things that are designed for consume consumer ability Right. I can do those things This is not like those things are like necessarily out of reach for me, but it doesn't really jive with like my Values so when people Uh, think of me as one thing. I would love to do something to challenge that idea So like my drag mother always told me always keep them guessing Always keep them guessing and and try to I like to try to be a little slippery In like being put into one box. So, you know, come see my band Play, you know at the eagle on a thursday night come see my drag show on a saturday um I I don't know just whatever. Fuck it I I live I live on the sex worker stroll in my neighborhood and I give out I have been doing that for three years. I don't need to be part of a nonprofit to do that I can just do that on my own That was something that I learned that was really valuable to me And so as a result of the things that I've been doing The city of san francisco has adopted my model of my project of Narcan distribution and they actually are now paying here in trans people of color in san francisco to Distribute overdose prevention materials to their communities Based on just what I decided to start doing on my own. I didn't do it with a with a non-profit I'm not paid for this, you know And anyone could do it and that's what I want to show people is that you can fucking do it too I'm not anything unique. I'm not doing anything special Anyone can do it if they want to do it, but you have to want it I I think it's pretty special I mean the way that like you have Like that you can raise visibility around like the use of narcan and like normalizing it Normalize carrying it by bringing on stage at princess or elsewhere, you know, like that's huge. That's huge um All right, so uh charlie jane. I pointed you out earlier about being a fellow artist here. Um Um, I mean, I'm a big fan of like all the birds in the sky But I was hoping that you could be talking about the unstoppable trilogy Um, it's latest book victory is greater than death, which is your background right now, right? Yeah, that's right. My background is actually the cover of victory is greater than death That's the first book in the trilogy The second book is dreams bigger than heartbreak which just came out in april On the third book will be out next year. It's already done and Yeah, I mean, I want to just quote a thing from my writing advice book never say you can't survive where I kind of say Imagination is always a way of resisting domination Like if you are able to use your imagination, people will not be able to dominate you Or control you the way that they would like to and I feel like that's the thing that's really important to me in these books And and you know victory is greater than death and dreams bigger than heartbreak are they're very much like my answer to star wars guardians of the galaxy Star Trek Steven universe, they're like a group of kids who leave earth and go off and save the galaxy They just happen to include a lot of queer and trans and non-binary and gender fluid kids who are getting to go out there and Be awesome and save all of the worlds and um Yeah, and it's it's a series, you know, that's about kind of what it means to be a hero The main character Tina has been trying to live up to this epic heroic image that From this alien that she was cloned from and she kind of realizes that Maybe there's more than one way to be cool or to be a hero And it's kind of about like the most heroic thing we can do is to Support each other and to hold up our chosen family and to try to find creative responses to The challenges we're facing rather than just you know Rather than I don't know. I mean one of the things that that's a question in the books always is how do we Do we always have to resort to violence? Do we always have to like? uh Kill people to get our to achieve our goals and that's the thing that I always struggle with personally But these all these books also like they take place in a universe where there's a universal translator that makes it so that You cannot use the incorrect pronoun for somebody like the translator makes sure that you know the right pronoun for anybody When you meet them and it's impossible to use the wrong pronoun The translator will correct it if you even try to and it's you know We meet all these aliens that have different forms of sexuality and gender and it's just kind of about showing that all of the things we take for granted in our world are not natural or normal or you know, pre-ordained things can be different and we can use creativity and you know Imagination to get through a lot of hard times and to you know solve our problems and One of the main characters of the series is an artist who uses art To kind of help save the galaxy and that's something that that means a lot to me personally I just want to say congratulations to charlie on your trilogy. Um, I've just completed my third. Thank you My third draft on my um First sci-fi Manuscript which is going to be a two volume Um book so congratulations. I'm really excited and I can't wait to read them That is thank you Oh, I'm so glad to hear. Oh, whoops. I think I think tracy accidentally dropped out at the last second there She'll come back. That's so great to hear though that um that the tracy mcdaniel is also writing um I know I'm I can't wait to read those amazing I mean they say that that sci-fi right is the greatest predictor of future technologies And I think in in this case specifically charlie jane with what you're writing and I would imagine what what tracy is probably also writing I really really hope that's true because um, you're certainly using uh technology to imagine better futures in these stories So that's that's great Well, uh, I think tracy She's she's lost in the ethers right now With her her device got dropped for a second, but I'm hoping that we can sort of turn towards that direction of the work that she's doing And also blunt um, I want to talk a little bit about community organizing and like the like The the the work the very real labor that goes into like creating the futures we want with like the communities we're interacting with so, um Blunt maybe I can start with you first Your work as a you know, a public health researcher an educator consultant organizing and criminalized spaces um Has really exploded over the last five years, which has been a joy to witness I mean you're one of my dearest friends, but watching your success rise is like Right, it's correct. First of all, but um, I'm wondering if you could give us a little bit of background on hacking hustling I think that's like Where I first started to see you rise um how that came to be and how it's evolved over the last few years Totally yeah, and also daily you're part of that you gave our first digital security training at hacking hustling's first event So we we go way back. Um So hacking hustling is a small collective of sex workers survivors and accomplices that work at the intersection of tech and social justice um And our work largely came out of the silence in the tech community in response to foster cesta And just this like continual space of legislation that's being that's being passed in the name of protecting Protecting survivors while harming survivors and sex workers simultaneously and folks who live at the intersection of these multiple identities and so we We really want it is just like this very disempowering feeling to like be spoken over and not heard and so we decided to really Make an effort to flip the script and kind of Enter these academic and institutional spaces that did not want us there that we're speaking over us and demanding to Take up space and demanding to get paid for our labor and expertise So our Our central projects focus on conducting research tracing the impact of criminalization against sex working people on and offline Organizing peer-led support efforts for criminalized survivors in our communities Creating radical teachings digital literacy trainings legal literacy trainings art pieces and holding community information calls to help better resource folks And we use I do a lot of the Participatory action based research with hacking hustling our first study a race study the impact of foster cesta and the removal of back page And it was a community report. It was published years before Things in the academy going through like IRB was able to be published and it was used in a lot of advocacy efforts We also have a study posting into the void studying the impact of on sex workers and activists um And an interesting finding there is if you sit at the intersection of both of those identities you are Double and just about every instance of platform punishment with shadow banning De-platforming loss of access to financial technologies You're twice as likely to be impacted by all of those almost across the board um, and then I think it's important to note that so much Activism and organizing it whether or not it's directly related to sex worker organizing is funded by folks labor in the sex trades Whether or not it's talked about and I think this is another thing that's linking all of our movements um And and right now we're in the middle of a study Starting street-based outreach on the financial discrimination of sex workers And so we're hoping to have that out early next year And been doing a lot of cross movement work with the abortion access movement Sharing sex worker expertise of years of organizing and criminalized economies Fantastic. Thank you. Um, yeah, I think uh, I'm really looking forward to reading the financial discrimination report because the um, the shadow banning piece The hacking hustling but I think was really a game changer For so long so many organizations that do this kind of tech advocacy We're afraid of even confirming any sort of like conspiracy theories about shadow banning Um, because it confirms a lot of like weird like right-wing conspiracies about like how the government is censoring radical groups So seeming like a sex worker like collective talk about it and give documented Really changed the game it like, you know, I think I see him seem so much of it too with uh abortion activists All of the content like we've been for sharing screenshots of so much of this content of Trans liberation on abortion access is being hidden behind like age age gates or hidden as sensitive material The last I've lost so many social media accounts just for being a whore And the last few that I've lost on instagram were all because I was sharing harm reduction information about the abortion access movement For sharing information about censorship and that's when they kick you off Uh, so I I think that it's such an important thing cross movement And we're going to see that's one of the things that we're going to be seeing more and more of the platform policing Yeah Um, hey tracy. Nice to see you. I've been warning people What was that chelsea? Oh, I've been warning people like uh, you know, especially a lot of people who aren't familiar with um Who aren't familiar with uh, how a lot of us have been dealing dealing with sort of um The the rapid changes in terms of service the policing on on uh on social media sites and sort of the the um, the There there are a lot there are a lot of groups of people who aren't queer and trans necessarily who are Suddenly being exposed to uh to these new things and I've been trying to warn them I've been like, hey, like we've been dealing with this for a long time You might want to not you might not want to do these things and then they go and do it and then they're like Oh, wow, I got suspended or I got you know, my my account's been locked out and it's like Well, I told you like this this is this has been going on for quite some time I Mean there's a there's a lot to be said about the exhausting the exhausting position it is to be the canary right to be like the canary in the coal mine that is um Sorry, I didn't uh, yeah Tracy's back with us. So I see that. Oh, yeah, it's all good. Hey. Hey, Tracy. Thanks. Uh, Sorry that there's some You know, as always there's always some technical difficulties going on. Um, you are muted though Name or we are muted. Oh, okay. We're good. We are muted. Can you hear me? Can you hear me? There's a bit of a Loop though from another device. I think it might be from another device. I think A few parallel dimensions at once maybe, um Well, I think it worked. Okay. Um All right, so Tracy we were we were sort of talking a bit about, um You know community organizing, um, like the like the work that goes into like you know, uh doing all that we talk about but like actually on the ground making connections between people and like, um Rallying support and like mobilizing movements, right? So your work is like decades long, right? Um spanning as you said, Advocacies for unhoused people people living with hiv Um, my favorite part is like you have this very displayed very prominently on your website, uh putting the tea first Which I think is like a a neat way of like framing how you're approaching these different issues, right? Um, I wonder if you can talk a bit about that like how you how you How you approach these different issues and make them kind of connected How you got how you got started doing the work with juxtapose center and transformation, Inc. Um Hello, can you hear me? Do you hear me? Hello, can you hear me? Sounds good. I don't know what's going on we can we can hear you okay now. It sounds good And then and then we lost her All right, well Yeah, as as as we're hearing Elsewhere attack is agreeing with us that optimism is difficult to do and it is it is holding us down as always um Well, maybe we could move forward a little bit. We can always come back to the community organizing talk when um when tracy comes back but um Oh and last Your back Hi Hi, can you hear me? We can hear you. Oh, you can hear me Okay. Yes. Um, you were asking about the work that I do with jct um, well, um Thank you so much for this question. I started advocating for civil and human rights protections for our community Um, so that we will be treated with dignity and respect. Um in 2006 after I started hearing about Trans gender non-conforming and non-binary people being denied access to shelters here in Atlanta, Georgia So in addition for advocating for basic equitable, um human liberties and the pursuit of happiness that afforded to others I also established jct In 2007 to use as a vehicle for spreading the good news about trans people gender non-conforming and non-binary people while also celebrating our resilience being here since the beginning of time Existing in every country and on every continent inhabited by man So we've been here before we're not going anywhere So, um, and that's that's that's where my passion comes from. I wanted to advocate for people who were being um denied access to shelters Well, that's incredible and it's it is Running charity here that you've been doing that work in 2006 Um Been fighting with that edge of optimism from the beginning Is immortal, you know, we've we've been around since Since there have been people so thank you. Thank you Uh, what a nice reminder that this has been going on for a while and it will continue to be going So we're not alone, right? so, um Chelsea Um, I want to ask you about, um, you know, I mean besides being a very notable network security expert and consultant and trainer you have a uh, I want a twitch streamer. Um You're also like, uh, you know very well known for being an activist for freedom of information Right and like the how about can change things? Um, right a lot of like Uh ways the information is used to uh warp perception with myths and disinformation campaigns feeding anti trans and anti lgbt propaganda Um, so I'm wondering if you have any comment you could make on like How free access to information? um Can play a role in fixing some of that or shaping perception for the better Well, I one of the you know as somebody who is known for, you know Transparency advocacy, right? You know like the obviously in 2010 the lead, you know lead the and this sort of started this whole Um, this almost a five-year long process of there being debates and discussions regarding Um, you know government information about government censorship government information government secrecy Etc. Um, one of the fascinating things that I think has happened Um, not just within our our sort of small community environment and the things that we face but but generally among the among the entire um, the entire world and how the internet works is is this shift from Uh from uh from they're not being uh from information being restricted or controlled in some way to Now there's so now we're so awash in information You know that uh, it's it's how you sort that information and how the access is uh is is siphoned and how it's You know turned and how a search result You know what what comes up with a search result? It doesn't mean that that information isn't available It's that information can sometimes be drowned out by misinformation disinformation the inability to verify information the uh virality of of information that can be false, but uh, that that is believable or that people or that Fits within the cognitive biases of someone. Um, this is one of the reasons why I think reactionary One of the reasons why reactionary propaganda Being uh being so consistent and so You know, uh In being able to present their information and their information styles has been so damaging for uh discourse is is that um because of the way it's packaged, uh, it fits within um, you know the information is presented in a way which uh reinforces someone's um Someone's cognitive biases. Um, you know, say, uh, say say some anti trans information or or You know something that somebody already, you know believes but it's a constant Reinforcement of that belief and the way the algorithms work and the way that the um, uh, the the sort of realization streams of of of social media platforms is work. Um, This has become very much, uh, the the prime issue, uh, facing. I think, uh, um, the information and discourse, um, you know, Environment, you know, we're we're now now we're so awash in information. Um, it it's really who who who ends up at the top of the pile And we find that certain that certain types of information, particularly in the political discourse space, uh end up getting presented And while others, uh are not necessarily restricted but made difficult to find That is true. Um, I think that that plays, uh It's a different way of thinking about how like, um, you can obscure information just by flooding information elsewhere polluting the information that is there Um, that's something I think about a lot with like privacy trainings and security trainings that I do. Um, But it is a also a really helpful way of thinking about how we How we get information to us and how it shapes that kind of perception, right? Hmm Well, thank you all. Um, I think we should probably launch into q&a portion now And we've had a quite a few people watching out there in the internet and the world wide web Chiming in with some questions. We won't be able to reach them all so I apologize to People out there who've been chiming in with questions. We're just going to get to a couple Um, no offense if yours is not chosen But um one that struck out or that stuck out to me, uh is from a user on twitch Whose username I cannot read and I won't try but um, but they ask, uh, what will it take for us to organize in effective enough numbers? What are your thoughts on the most effective direct actions to change legislation? sit-ins stopping traffic hunger strike general strike Anyone have any thoughts about that? I have some thoughts if um so, uh, I think that The trajectory it depends on the trajectory, uh, or it depends on the goal and it depends on the trajectory in which things are going Um Lately it has been about defense. So we're very much on the defense, you know, whenever it comes to Progressive activism or, you know, queer activism or trans activism In particular, it's very been very much I've been very focused on being able to provide people with the ability with the ability to protect yourselves From a deluge of of of uh, either in-person attacks online attacks hacking doxing etc mostly because that that that is You know, in order for us to be able to do the the secondary portions, which is the the kinds of active the the kinds of activism to be able to to affect Uh legislation or or affect the outcomes of court cases and things Um, we kind of have to be able to protect ourselves in our physical Be able to protect our physical person our digital foot our digital footprints Um, and those around us and the the relationships and and the interactions that we have And sort of our freedom of movement our our ability to to to work and operate. Um, because it's very difficult It's it's very difficult And I think that this is one of the reasons why people are facing these kinds of attacks so frequently and so intensely Is because it's very difficult to organize Uh those kinds of actions unless you're able to at least provide some level of protection for yourself in in your in your day-to-day life So I I focus very much on on trying to be able to to Give people the tools to be able to defend themselves before we can even start to have a discussion about what what can we do to Uh to to um to affect change because you can't really affect change if you are If if you're terrified of even going outside or if you're you're unable to obtain uh and and continue to have safe housing Or if you're unable to to um feel safe Uh out there because uh and and really uh if you if you do want to do Um, you know the kinds of activism that that affect these things I would focus on on being on protecting the most vulnerable people within your own community um And listening to the most vulnerable in your own community about sort of how about what their needs are Uh in before before you you start to tell them like oh you should be doing this right because Not everybody can do these things and it's not a very good idea to be able to do Do do kinds of the kinds of direct action? Uh necessary to affect the you know the the political outcomes that you need um If if you are most vulnerable portions of the community are are are under a complete deluge Agreed protections key I have some thoughts. I you know, I'm especially in the context of this Um, uh panel and thinking about the relationship between online activism and communities and hitting the streets so to speak, you know, I I think I see Uh activism or rather I see the relationship between like real tangible lived life and Not to say that the internet isn't but also like online Presence as symbiotic, right? So if form follows fun function then Real you know real life is the form and then the internet is the function, right? And so I think that these things can be leveraged. However, they can be I think that the internet allows for people who Uh may not otherwise be able to participate in an activism to you know, do so, right? And so I I don't consider myself an online activist I consider myself a millennial shit poster just like every other But you know for me, I I want to live by my values of Letting the work speak for itself and it also goes back to the existence is resistance kind of piece of it you know at the very least like given the Thing the challenges that people have in the world. I think that letting the work speak for itself and letting actions speak first Leads to you know, hopefully will then be reflected in both real lived life and also Um affect online activism as well. So that's just my two cents on that Thank you that is huge I think I think we can probably carve out a space for considering shit posting as a form of So I think that's appropriate um Uh, so, you know what I apologize to the the people out in the q&a world or out on the internets that are watching But we're not going to get into more Question and the answer because I want to respect everyone's time here And I want to make sure that we I want to give you all a chance to plug your work The reason you're here is because you're all doing such amazing things either as activists or artists community organizers and I want people to leave here knowing where they can tell more information about you and support your work. So Take a moment to do that, please I'm just going to call you out in order that I see you on the screen here Charlie jane, where can people find your work? Yeah, I'm at charlie jane.com and i'm calling you out in order that I see you on the screen here Charlie jane, where can people find your work? Yeah, i'm at charlie jane.com and i just want to make sure it's kind of distracting You can find my young adult books in hopefully in bookstores everywhere because he's greater than death and dreams breathe in heartbreak Um and other books of mine that have come out recently also You should be able to get if you go to your local comic book store They should still have copies of marvel's 2022 pride voices issue, which contains a story. I wrote introducing a new transgender superhero Mike is doing a feedback. Oh, there we go. Thank you. Um, so so just Um, just in case people will miss that part charlie jane.com, right? And comic book stores look for more of a 2022 pride voices Yeah, and uh victory is greater than death and dreams bigger than heartbreak are my two young adult books that you can Hopefully get in bookstores everywhere right now Thank you. Thank you. Um, uh blunt working people find more about you and your work Sure, um, you can find the work of hacking hustling at hacking hustling.org or follow us on twitter. Um at hacking hustling Uh, I don't have any projects right now to Promote but I do want to just say that our work is largely funded by client donations and are directly burned the sex trade It's really fucking hard to get funding. Um for sex worker organizing So if you have fucking money, we would love it. Please talk to us if you know funders, please fucking hook us up Um, and I think especially with like the broadening web of criminalization It becomes increasingly important to resource folks who are Experiencing criminalization and have expertise in these spaces. Um, and on the other hand It would be remiss of me to not use this as an opportunity to hustle if you want me to make you cry You can go to mistress blunt calm, uh, and let me know that you found me here Excellent plug. Thank you blunt Um, uh, okay tracy, um, where can we find more about you and your work and support you? Oh, but you are muted right now Can you hear me? Can you hear me? All right, um All right I'm excited to to share. Um, uh our new rebranded website the jct.org You can find me there. You can find out what we're doing You can also order a copy of my milmoire transitions Milmoires of a transsexual woman And we'd also like to get some feedback from you about our site It just I feel that it's important to for me to answer that question before we end it um I agree with chelsea that our safety is very important and that we need to Be safe wherever we are I also believe that it's very important for us to show up and participate for equity Because I believe that our visibility saves lives And i'm gonna say it again until I can't say it anymore vote vote vote vote vote Thank you. Um, thank you So just in case there was a bit of a feedback loop there, but in case people heard it right jct.org By her by her memoir there also support the organization and um Yeah, thank you tracy. Um, kachina. Would you like to go next? Sure, I'll go really quickly. I just want to say tracy Mr. Splint and I've been familiar with your work. I'm such a huge fan as well So it's just I want to just plug that for you both as well, especially I think that's really amazing what you do what you all do Um, so I'm coaching a rude on all socials. Uh, that's k That's how you see it spelled on screen with the k Um, my band is called lolly gaggers. It's two words. We are available for streaming on all platforms and on bandcamp And if you're in the san francisco bay area, be sure to check out princess It is a weekly saturday night drag show at the san francisco oasis nightclub It's a great show The the billings you all have are incredible, but um, but seeing you and lisa frankenstein on stage every week is like A joy for me. So thank you Um, all right. Chelsea, uh, where can we find more about you and your work? Uh, so it's very easy to find me So, uh, I don't need to go into the whole A whole list of uh of what my socials are because it's very easy to find me Just enter in like I think the first four letters of my name tell challa, and I'll show up Uh, but what I will say is that I what is new is that I have a book coming out, uh in october october I take it is read me in fact a lot of the things that we've been talking about are very much a large part of My memoir that is coming out called read me dot text. Uh, the website for it is a gtps colon slash slash dub dub dub read me Or dub dub dub dot read me text txt So r e a d m e Txt dot x y z I'm really looking forward to reading that. Um, thank you. Chelsea. So, um, Oh, nice, we'll do. Um, uh, I think I have a few books now that I need to buy after hearing from y'all So This is good. It's gonna add to my ever-growing queue of books to read. Um, so thank you all so much for joining Thank you to everyone out there who's been watching us. Uh You all heard where to support all of our fine panelists here I'm also going to evf.org to check out our work. But you're probably already familiar with us That's probably why you're here. So that's good. Um, and to to to end it off I had this quote that came across my feed recently that I thought would be good to maybe, um End it off with. Uh, this is a Howard zin quote. Who's a famous writer To be hopeful in bad times is based on the fact that human history is not only of cruelty But also of compassion sacrifice courage and kindness If we see only the worst it destroys our capacity to do something If we remember those times and places where people have behaved magnificently This gives us the energy to act and if we do act in however a small way We don't have to wait for some grand utopian future The future is an infinite succession of presence and to live now as we think human beings should live In defiance of all that is bad around us is itself a marvelous victory Hopefully we can Thank you all so much. Also. Yeah Bye everyone