 So this is the development review board for Burlington for October 19th. And we're working our way through technical difficulties of a hybrid meeting. We have some people here in person and some people will be on Zoom. And so I'll just say we take up items in the order they're on the agenda. And when we call them, we will hopefully be able to admit people on Zoom if needed. And we have a few people here attending the meeting. And we also ask when people speak, either on Zoom or in person, that they give mailing addresses to Mary because we need to follow up for party status, things like that. So we're gonna go right into the agenda, the meeting minutes. And so the first thing is the consent agenda. And that's 162 North Champlain Street. Is the applicant here? No, not here. It looks like she's here. So Jessica Hyman is on the list. So can she get admitted, Mary? Yes, sorry. Jess, you are permitted to speak now. Hello, Jess. So this is on the consent agenda, which means that if you're okay with the staff's recommendations, it might go right ahead. Are you okay with the staff's recommendations on this application? Okay. And is the anybody on the board object to treating this as consent agenda? So different to actually see people. Yeah. No objections. And anybody in the public objecting? I don't seem to be. So can I have a motion for 162 North Champlain Street? I'll make a motion. Okay. On ZP 21-655 162 North Champlain Street, I move that we approve the application, adopt staff findings and recommendations. So second, Chase, go right down the line. Discussion, all in favor? Opposed? Aye. Kenan and the... Do we have? We got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight people. Yeah, Leo is the appointee for Kenan's position. And I believe this is Kenan's last meeting. So you may not officially be here today, Leo. Like you can observe. You want to have it. Okay. Good. So you're approved, Jess. Really appreciate your time. Okay. You're welcome to the rest of the meeting. Thank you. So the next item on the agenda is 227-235 Main Street. And the applicant has asked to have that deferred. Mary or Ryan, do you know anything about the... Yeah. Do you refer to a date, certain? Not certain yet. They're still working on it with staff. So we're just deferring that at the moment. Correct, yeah. There's the expectation that it's going to be resolved. So they're asking for the deferral. So does someone want to make a motion to defer this? Is that Jeff? Yes. So moved. The second, Caitlin. Okay. All in favor? Opposed? Aye. Kenan? Yes. Okay. Good. Okay. The next item, moving right along, is 63 North Avenue. Ah, we have people in person. You can come up to the... These two. See, up to the table, if you want. Is there anybody in the public for 63 North Avenue? If you wish to speak on this agenda, please raise your hand. I don't see anybody. Okay. So I'm going to ask, are you both part of the applicant? Yes. Okay. Can you raise your right hand? Do you swear to tell the truth and hold truth and contain a penalty of perjury? I do. I do. Okay. So you're back with this. You were here before about the trash shed. We'll write terminology. And you submitted a photograph with the shed superimposed on it and moved it out of the way for people to be able to maneuver into the garage, I believe it is. I don't know if we want to put that up or not. Yeah. Sure, it's great. Do you have a reading stuff up? I have, do you have the agenda there? Do you have the plans and such? Anything you want? Any comments you want to make on it? Just the fact that we all got together with Ryan and we went there and we came to an agreement on what was perfect for everyone. One of the I've admitted, can you two introduce yourselves? My name is Joe Piscotti. I'm 83 North Avenue, number three, Vice President of the Association. I'm Ken Axelson. I live at 83, number six. On the board. On the board, yeah. Just out of. You guys are happy with this spot. I remember the last meeting. Nobody was happy with the proposed spot. I think everyone is happy. That's some resolution to it? Yes. I believe so. Fair enough. Point of clarity. The application here says 63 North Avenue. 63 is the address of the building. 83 got in there. Okay. Somehow. So 63 is right. 63 is right. Good. Does anybody on the board have any questions for the applicant on this? It's a lot less confusing this time than the first time it came. Yeah, that's confusing to me. No, it isn't. It looks perfect. But that's the old shed. No, I scribbled that old shed out, but that's there in the aerial photo. I just penciled in the. Oh, you penciled in where that new shed. That's the new shed. Okay. Any other questions or comments on the board? Is anybody from the public? I think we had all our excitement last time. There's two chats, if you just want to check those. There's two chats on the Zoom chat. I'm starting. Oh. Two attendees. Two. Yeah, what are those chats? Harry, there's two chats. Are people on the chat there? All the chats. AJ, did you want to say something? Oh, it's before the meeting is starting. Trust me, I'm very happy that we're not having this debate again on this project. Mark calls an attorney, but he hasn't. He commented about just being asked if he could be heard, but he was for the project we just deferred, I think. So, okay, so we're going to close the public hearing on this. All right. We will probably deliberate at the end of the meeting tonight to vote on it. I'm glad you guys could get to a resolution. So are we. Thank you. Thank you. Can we leave? You can leave. Can I be in touch? You can stay if you want. Let's see how it goes. Very good, thank you. So you know, you have both their names in the process. Yeah, they've signed it as well. Thanks. Hey, well, so the next one is 105 Paragon Avenue. This is a UVM project. Is, do we have somebody here from UVM? Yup, there are. We go, where'd you go, Lonnie? Lonnie's. Dang it. You're super quicker. I am. Hi, Lonnie. Hi, Lonnie. So is anybody going to speak besides you, Lonnie, for UVM? Yes. Yes, we have several people here that I'd like to introduce, even though I can't see them. I trust that they are here. So first of all, my name is Lonnie Raven. I'm an associate planner at the University of Vermont, and I'm here to present the project for the Hill Generation. With me, the UVM team are Kate Coffey, who's the project manager for this. Guy Roberts, who's a disability manager at UVM College of Agriculture and Life Sciences. Derek Reed is the engineer for this project. He's with Fribs and Lansing. And Freeman French Freeman is the architectural firm. Alex Halpern and Josh Crandall are here to represent, to speak about the project. And there may be some other staff here for the project, Paula Carlaccini, Bruce Hillman, Lisa Kingsbury. Who's here with you and where you are? Nobody is where I am. I'm here. Okay. So I'm going to say, I'm just trying to figure out how to square everybody in, truthfully. So I'm going to ask everybody who's present right now, which is Lonnie, Alex, Josh, Guy, and who is L. Hillman is? Derek Reed, Bruce Hillman. Bruce Hillman, oh, and Derek Reed. Okay. Would you all square that you would tell the truth and hold truth on the pain and penalty of perjury? Yes. Yes. Okay. And this is being a state educational institution. We are limited in our review. Mary, can I get the terminology right here to the review is limited to site plan? There are limited categories for review, limitations to municipal review under state statute 4-4-1-3. Is that right there? Okay. Do you want any location size, height, building bulk, setbacks, density of buildings, off-street parking, traffic noise, lighting, landscaping? So that's our realm. I know you've got a wonderful array of drawings here. And maybe you want to just walk through the project, Lonnie, just or somebody in terms of the basic plan. And can we get the plan out there? Yeah, I'm working on it here. Go to Zoom, FitPage. We'll work it out. I can tell you this project is a renovation, which you're not really know, it's part of this project. But the part that you're going to be reviewing is a renovation of the building, the outside of the building, with associated site improvements. These include construction of an addition at the southeast entrance. That's going to include an elevator tower. And then, well, that was a good, yeah, that's a great plan to talk about right now. So you can see the southeast entrance. There's a little bit of an addition that's going to include a new elevator. The northeast entrance, a little bit above that, is going to, it's a small addition, just to, and it's going to include covered and secure migrants. And the southwest is a slightly larger construction in addition to the lobby. To expand that entrance and create both an accessible and more accessible way to come in and also create some lobby space. There will be a few site improvements that include construction of new sidewalks, utilities, landscaping, which includes curricular landscaping, and installation of a new generator. And these will improve accessibility of the wall. And there are some parking improvements. There are, we're swapping out parking or redoing the site. The net result will be one extra parking space. Plus, the existing parking space is going to be modified to be ADA accessible or compatible. And we will be adding that one net new space to the upcoming gym when it comes through. So it'll be counted and put into the gym. So, are there any questions about that? Sounds good. Okay, so as you know, the new house is centrally located on central campus along several outdoor and indoor circulation routes. Carrigan Drive is the north and east road that you can see in the plan. And there are a few other buildings, such as Rowell Given, HSLRF, and a few more. There's also an internal circulation route through some of the buildings that you can see here. Hills was built in 1950, and we have been working collaboratively with the Vermont Division of Historic Preservation on this project, and they're pretty excited about it. So I'd also, before we go into the nuts and bolts of the project, I'd just like to note that the university has reviewed staff comments and we, in general, we accept all conditions. We have already submitted information regarding the rooftop mechanical units. And regarding screening, we're gonna go into it a little bit more, but we'd like to explain a little bit more about what's going on up there in the roof a little bit later in this presentation. At this point, I'd like to ask Guy Roberts, the facility manager at the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences, to talk a little bit about why this project is important to the university and to the city. Oh, my name's Guy Roberts, as Lenny just said. I'm the facilities manager for the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences. This project is gonna be important for the university and in particular for the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences in two ways. First, we're gonna be creating an institute within the building that's focused on stimulating entrepreneurship. There are a couple of entrepreneurship programs already going on in the building. So this will extend to those. The institute's goal is to guide the students and faculty to create new business opportunities that can potentially build Vermont's economy. Second, the renovation of the project is gonna provide a hope for it, the new USDA sponsored food systems program. And the University of Vermont has recently selected to host a branch of USDA's Agricultural Research Service here at Burlington. And the focus of that ARS Agricultural Research Service program is on food systems. The goal of that program is threefold to increase the diversity and nutritional quality of locally grown foods, improve the access to high-quality agriculture products for low-income residents, and to understand how regional farms can become more resilient to climate change. And if you have any questions on that, we answer them. I want to say more about the purpose of the generator. It's not really described in the application. I know UVM recently removed a renewable wind turbine and I'm interested in why you're now putting in a diesel generator. We gave the entire plan and then that'll be put more and it's the correct context, is that okay? Sure, thanks. So, I think Alex Halberg from Freedom of Management and Architects can maybe walk us through the project. Or this is actually Josh Granville, but I'm sorry, huh? Yeah, no, I'm here. Digital technology. So yeah, no, it's a historic restoration project, mostly an interior renovation, but we are restoring the outside building with new windows. And from a site perspective, on the west, we're creating new accessible walkways to get to the building that will all the way to the new connector, which connects Benedict, our uptorium to Hills Agricultural Science. There's a connector that exists there today. We're just making it a little bit wider and putting more glass to really announce it as a main entrance to the building and make it accessible. On the east side of the building, we are creating a new elevator. The elevator that's there today is out of date in terms of code and accessibility. So we're putting a new elevator on that side of the building. We're keeping the existing stairs. There will be some, excuse me, getting out of the car here. There will be some lobby space in that tall three-story elevator tower. And then on the northeast side, there is a small one-story entry vestibule with the parking like Lonnie noted. On the road area to the east and Kerrigan Drive, we are creating some more accessible parking spaces to even more enhance the building for accessibility. To the south of the building, that connector between Benedict, our uptorium and hills will also have an entrance to existing walkways. And I think that's pretty much the overview of the building. Alex, can you explain a little bit about how that connector works on the west side of the building? Because it looks like you have entrances on both sides of it, is that? That's correct. Today, even today, there's a connector there that has an entrance on both. It only has an entrance on the south side, and then the connector connects into Benedict, our uptorium and you can come out on the north side. And so right now, it's a solid brick connector, so we're gonna make it wider and be glass on both sides so you can see through this connector it'll be much more visible and it'll connect the south side to the north side. Is that what you're looking for? Yeah, so you can just walk right through the space, right? You can walk right through the space, correct. And so you can go north-south through the space or you can go east-west inside the buildings just like you can today. Are you the one who's gonna explain the roof? Sure, yeah, the roof mechanical equipment is placed on the roof of the building. And these we've gone over, we had a number of options, three primary options on how to place the mechanical equipment for this project. We looked at it on the ground, looked at it in different configurations on the building. And together with this sort of preservation, we arrived at where we are today with the units kind of centered on the high roof which minimized their presence. And we looked at screening the units to just lack help in any way. And in fact, just made them pretty much, if you're on ground level today, looking up at the building just pretty good parapet area screens the majority of the unit. But if you put the screening on, you need to keep that away from the unit to give it its clearance space. And now, so then the units became even more of a presence and historic, so we showed those options to historic and they said, definitely no, let's stick with it, the straight up unit. The units themselves are relatively clean boxes with some doors on them and we've located them as best we can to keep them not visible. They are visible, you can see them from certain angles and we showed that in what we presented. So I just wanna clarify that in case it wasn't totally clear. If we put on screening, the screening would be closer to the edge of the roof. So it would loom larger, number one. And number two, there's a question of, there's also a question of snow being not able to be cleared and so then we could have a wave problem. So please don't really work in this particular instance. Yeah, given the structure, the capacity of existing structure on the screening will create wind drift loads up there and it does complicate it, but the main reason for not having screening is the fact that it just makes everything more present, whereas a nice clean unit centered up there in this location makes a lot of sense. All three units the same material and finish? That'd be if I'm wrong, Josh, but yes, I think they're all the same material and finish. They might be slightly different dimensions, but I think the ones we provided are the largest dimension. Right. We received some kind of powder coat with a finish or a paint color in the sky. Alex, did you hear that question? It was a little garbled. Oh, baby, Josh. I thought Josh responded, but we had to finish the thing. Yeah, Josh responded. Yeah. I think we'll type a powder coat and finish when it's like a light ray that we'll be able to pick and we're trying to pick something that blends well with the Vermont skies. Is there any information on the sound levels from that equipment? So we've done a baseline sound recording. We have an acoustic engineer on the project, so we've taken baseline measurements and then we'll be working with our engineers to control that, to the best we can moving forward. We'll not have them yet at this point. So how do we address, one of the things we're required to look at is noise. I know the university is at issues with noise on some mechanical equipment, mostly external, to the campus. This one seems much more internal, but we're required to look at the noise impacts of your activities. So what information do you have for us now to be able to say there's not a noise concern? May I address that? This is in the middle of the campus. So similar to the central heating plant, we did noise abatement on that too. And while we don't have information yet, if you walk there now, there is a certain amount of noise and we're going to be trying very hard to keep it close to the existing amount of noise. And I believe the noise requirements, correct me if I'm wrong, shouldn't they be measured at the edge of the property? And if you go to the edge of the UVM property, I don't think you're gonna be able to hear anything. So that's in general. Alex, if you wanna address more, then please, more specifically, let me see that. No, I think that's accurate, Lonnie. I mean, we don't know the exact impact. Our goal is to minimize it and make it as close to no difference as possible. If it probably will be slightly different. There are fans on that building today. There are fans on the building to the west, which is Marsh. There are fans on the building to the south. There are fans on the building to the east. And there are fans on the building to the north. So it's ended. This building is lower than the surrounding building. So it's really in a kind of a pocket. And so we just, we need to fine tune the actual equipment and then we can certainly submit those findings if there are what they are and then get your input that could be, I think that might be an approach. I'll have the same question about the generator. So I think some follow up on the noise, even if it's submission, to confirm noise levels as you're representing going to be below existing, something along those lines would be fine. I don't know that they would be below existing and to make that as close as possible to that. In terms of the generator, the generator is there for life safety power and for limited research equipment power, so it's some refrigerators and some equipment, but it's not a full-blown power of the building if central power goes down. Can everyone hear me? This is Josh. I just wanted to add that we're locating the generator in the small parking area in the north, which is the natural well. So that will help isolate the sound as well. So we can also give you sound levels. We've done baseline sound levels. We've done baseline sound levels for this project at the edge of the property line, so we should do that too. And then when we get more information, we'll be happy to give it to you. I believe we should give you the sound levels at the edge of the property. Is that correct? Or I don't know if there's a specific distance other than the edge of the property that you want. I guess that's a question to Burlington's staff. Yeah, that's something we'll discuss at the level of two. We're happy to give you more information when we have it. And as the sound levels will primarily affect people on medium property, we are very interested in getting it to be as close as possible to what we have to make. Great. Okay, the question is on this part so far. So landscaping, is that something you're going to go into? Bonnie? Yes. I don't know what your next step is in this. Okay. I have one question for Alex. I'm just curious. I think on the connector there, it was, I think it was phrased as would look siding. Am I phrasing that right, Alex? Yes. What does that mean? So there's a couple of products. Josh could tell you the name. I think it might be called Neowith. So it's like a, it's a sintered stone that we're looking at at this time. Another option is, it's a photographic metal panel, aluminum panel where it's really etched in. It's the same material we use on the South End City Market. Not the same pattern, but the same material. So this is a UV fast process where the image is really integrated into the material itself. And it's very durable, doesn't see. And so you can get pretty much any look you want. So we were thinking of that for the wood look. Okay. It's for the outside of the building. Okay. That helps clarify it. Thank you. Alex or Josh, can you talk about the landscaping? Sure. The landscaping is largely as is today. It's a highly academic with a lot of both the green states. Since this is a teaching landscape, we're taking pains to maintain some of the specimens that are used to facilitate the teaching classes and also protect some of the nicer, the nicer trees. That being said, we are, we are adding trees and we are choosing some to be taken down that are majority and are otherwise inclined. So those are the broad strokes in terms of the planting types. We're also using the planting to reinforce the entrances and site circulation. So in this plant, you can see on the northwest side of the site, we're using the plantings to reinforce both that historical facade and the north-south axis, our alley that's leading to the vector building. On the east side of the building, you can see that the trees and the plantings are being used to frame the new entrances. Does that answer your question? I'd also like to add about the sidewalks, the walkways are there to emphasize the new lobby entrance and also to provide accessibility. A large classroom, so we want to have good, good and safe and accessible access to everything. That's right. And we're really trying to keep a lot of the hard space that we can minimize the amount of disruption, the existing, but really all the moves that you're seeing here are to facilitate ADA access and movement through the site, that large VE that you see at the north end of the site. That is an ADA grant leading up to a lot that we're creating and also reinforcing the entrances. And the other thing that I'd like to point out that at every entrance, we have bike racks. Most of these are short-term bike parking. They're the inverted use, the various, the standard for UVM. And at the northeast end, there's some covered secure long-term bike parking. Is it correct, Lonnie, that most of the, there's not much grading change for this project in terms of the construction with the exception of that one sort of handicap ramp at the north end of the building? Did that be correct? I... That's correct. I'm asking that because you... Yeah. Go ahead. Josh will address this question. Yeah, I'm sorry, can you hear me all right? Yeah. Yes. Okay, so yeah, the grading is really located there at that large VE, which is an ADA ramp up to Paragon Drive. And also a slight amount of grading at the ADA parking spots in the south. Otherwise, you can see much of the localized grade land disturbance is at the walkway. So it's very limited. I was just asking because you're leaving a lot of existing trees next to new walks. That's right. And that's exactly why we're trying to limit our disturbance. We're also activating the courtyard. There's a very beautiful courtyard to the south of Hills. And we're adding walkways to activate it a little bit more. So it's a little more accessible to people in the area. And the existing landscaping is pretty nice. And we wanna preserve that kind of feeling of very calm, quiet, collegial kind of atmosphere. Do you have more that you're wanting to present at this point, Ronnie? I, let me just look at... Kate has her hand up if she wishes to speak. I'm sorry about that. I had that up by mistake. How many years, two? Yeah, I think that we've addressed any of the all the staff comments. You did ask about the wind turbine generator. The wind turbine, this is not really connected to this project, but that ended its lifespan. We love the wind generator, the wind turbine. It was one of the first projects that I permitted. So I'm very attached to it. But because it was so long ago, it just doesn't work, it didn't work anymore. And like you saw the generator on the north is only for emergency and life safety purposes. Does that answer your question? It does. I don't think we have a purview over this, but I'm interested in whether you considered any renewable options or battery storage instead of a fossil fuel unit for that generator. There are other options that are not fossil fuel based. I'm going through that to 50. And they do require a very high standard of energy efficiency. This is a lab and Kate or Alex please jump in if there's anything that I'm missing. But I do believe that we do have to take care of emergencies. And that would be this way. Okay, Jack, can I ask what the alternative generation of power, alternatives for emergency generation of power you're thinking of? Yeah, it depends on your timeframe, but battery storage is an available option to replace generators. If you're charging it in Burlington, it'd be 100% renewable power. Yeah, we can talk about that with our engineers and see if the capacity is there. I don't think it's our purview, but I'd encourage you all to think about it, not add more fossil fuel to your facilities. I think that's a good thought to just check into and check it against the needs of the user and see if it's viable. Thank you. I think there are some members of the public. Is that true? That might be on the phone. Sure, it's Sharon. Sharon, go, Sharon, leave. Sharon, are you unmuted? Can you speak? I think so, can you hear me? Yes, okay. So this is Sharon Buescher, right? Right, but I wasn't sure if this was the time to jump into this conversation. I can wait. No, I think we're trying. I think I'm asking for public comments now and then we'll go back to the applicant. I'm sorry, I didn't hear that. The sound isn't so great, excuse me. We're asking for public comments now and then we'll go back to the applicant after that. Okay, so the person that spoke before actually was, I wanted to speak in support of looking at alternatives for the generator, because initially when presented, I heard that it was diesel fueled and I thought environmentally, there might be other options. So as I understand the conversation that just occurred, is that there are, there potentially could be other options. There could be battery operated, but you'd have to recharge and that was going to be explored. And so to me, I, you know, this is the university I graduated from and I wanted to be, and we're the state of Vermont and I'd like us to make really sound environmental decisions. So that was one thing. The other thing is that I understand that you have been respectful of existing trees and that you are going to minimally disturb them and try not to disturb them actually. And I don't believe you're taking down anything significant. I am a little gun shy because of what happened at the old Delta side project, which is the alumni house, where all those big beautiful trees were removed. So I just, you know, once again, I really value our state and I value the tree and what it does for our environment. So I'm just speaking in support of landscaping that is respectful and development that considers it. Other than that, I went to UVM Hills with where the Botany department was. And so I think it's really germane to have landscaping and vegetation that represents and reflects all of that history. So thank you. Thank you. Are there others from the public who wish to speak? Do we know? I don't see any other hands raised. We have five chats. Is any of that relevant? That's already passed. That's from before. Yep. Okay, so no other public comments at this point. No other hands are raised. Are there any questions from the board for the applicant? Lonnie, is there anything that you or your team would like to add at this point? I'd just like to say that, you know, we do need to provide for life safety. We're interested in looking at options, but we have to weigh that against the needs, but they're certainly open to exploring options. I will add that I've worked on some projects where battery storage is being used to replace generators. And you can gang together a lot of batteries and get a lot of power out of it. So there are other options. Okay. Yeah, I think at this time, I think that I can't really confer with my colleagues, but if anybody on the UDM team has anything to add, please do so. Okay. We're not hearing anything. I think we're set at this point. So I will thank you all for the presentation. I will close the public hearing. Thank you. And with that, unless we have any other business, we'll welcome Leo Sprinsen. Sprinsen, up to see you written down. Yes, yes. As a board member, could you just quickly say your names? You're gonna look at your faces all the time. Jeff. Caitlin. Chase. Brooks. Brad. And Ryan, good to see you again. Good to see you. And Kenan, Kenan, is this your last meeting? Well, we will miss you, Kenan. Yeah, sorry to see you go now. You're moving to South Burlington. Is that what happens? Oregon. Oregon. Well, South Burlington, Oregon, I guess is sort of the same thing. Well, when'd you move? Our, we're headed out west on October 29th. Wow. Well, enjoy it out there. And with that, we'll close the public hearing. Close the meeting, so we're done. Okay. So. Staff offers our apologies. Two of us are doing the obligations before tonight. So thank you for your patience while we tag team. So we have two things.