 Ladies and gentlemen, it is now time to introduce you to the eminent panellists on this panel. First up, Dr. Bhavna Gautam, founder of Embrace Life. Thank you so much, Dr. Bhavna, for joining us today. Great having you. My pleasure. Thank you, Bhavna. I see that we shared our names. So, it's lovely being here. Pleasure. Pleasure having you, ma'am. Also, we have Ms. Piali Das Gupta, senior VP, Marketing Columbia, Pacific communities joining us. Thank you so much, Ms. Piali Das Gupta, for joining us today. Thank you, Bhavna. Thank you for having me. Pleasure being here. Also, we do have Dr. Vispy Jopi, the CEO of Masinah Hospital. Thank you so much, Dr. Jopi, for joining us today, Lai. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me here. I hope I'm audible and everything is fine, technically. Yes, yes. Perfect, sir. Thank you. We also have Ms. Samantha, counseling psychologist at Fortis Hospitals. Thank you so much, Ms. Samantha, for joining us today, Lai, at our summit. I believe she's just logged in. Thank you, Ms. Samantha. If you could hear us, do acknowledge the same. All right. So, we'll just give her some time on setting that up quickly. We also have Mr. Nithi Zamurdia, co-founder and director at Indira IVF. Thank you so much, sir, for joining us today, Lai. Thank you, Bhavna. It's a real pleasure to be talking on this particular very important topic in the current times. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. Ladies and gentlemen, it is now time to introduce you to the session chair of this wonderful panel discussion that's Ms. Nazia Albi Rehman, e-forum editor. Thank you so much, Nazia, for joining us today, Lai, and being a part of this wonderful panel discussion. Thank you, Bhavna. I am audible. Yes, perfect. So, ladies and gentlemen, with such eminent people on your stage and screen, it is now time for me to pass on the live bait and to Nazia to take it forth with her panel. Over to you. Hello, all. My apologies. We had too many technical glitches and we are starting late. But I will try to cover up and I'll keep my questions short. I'll keep my intro short so that I give more time to experts like you to speak on the topic. I think mental health, I believe, has been the most discussed disease globally after COVID in the last one year. Everyone, I mean, this mandatory confinement in which we all are currently in has given, there's been a sudden surge in the cases of mental health. And I don't know if a lot of people, but some people have definitely become vocal about the problems that they are suffering. At work, in family, you know, in your neighborhood. And a lot of people have got mental health issues because they've lost jobs. A lot of people are not able to do their jobs because they have mental health issues. So, I mean, I would want to cut my intro short. We all know what the problem is and let us focus more on solutions that you all can offer us. So, if I can, I would want to start with Dr. Yopchi because, you know, Masina Hospital has been doing so much around mental health even before we all started talking about it. And if you can tell us, you know, how the problem has increased in the last one year, one and a half year post COVID. And also, how has it changed in the sense that, you know, if you have, if you're seeing a trend which did not exist before, you know, if there are younger people coming to you, the older people coming, what is, is it related to only a particular age group? Although, if you can just bring us to, you know, all the interesting new details that you have been noticing in the last one and a half years. Heading an institution which has run a mental health facility for almost 25 years, which is not common because, you know, mental health indoor facilities in most hospitals are not existing. And we've always had a spectrum of cases which range from very mild to very severe psychosis. And in this period when there were two challenges, you know, one is to continue the indoor admissions were restricted because of the fact that we were afraid of COVID spreading. Because, you know, even if you have mental health people staying together to make to ensure social distancing and COVID protocols in the indoor facility was a problem. So therefore, there were a lot of patients who would not seek the help that they required at that time. And they were actually, you know, suffering at home. And at that time, we, we digitally thought of, you know, going on to the digital platform and going digital in a bigger way than what we were doing conventionally. So, you see, even the digital platform is difficult for people with mental illness. So it's not very easy. However, we made sure that we kept the services running and we tried to, you know, defer admission for as long as possible. But it was very difficult. And once the lockdown started, once the disease and we were able to understand more about COVID and the fear of COVID became lesser. We started, you know, gradually taking patients in more and more into the single rooms and with a lot of care. Sorry to interrupt you, but what are the kinds of cases that you've been noticing more and more? It's the same. In fact, the severity is more. I mean, I would not say there's any change in the kind of cases that you're getting. It's that we are, we were getting people who would be easily manageable at home because of with medication and all. But now with the situation being worse, the severity and the number of cases started increasing a lot. And if you, if you have to give me a percentage, a rough idea of, you know, of both. The severity and the number of patients. I mean, I would say that it's a one third more than what would normally be there. I also ask this because, you know, I myself know a patient as young as a 10 year old, 11 year old, you know, who was who went into who was diagnosed with clinical depression after COVID. Then of course there are older people, there are younger people who have lost their jobs. Bhavna, if I can get you also in Bhavna Gautam, not the emcee, if I can get you in the debate. What are the trends that you have been noticing? And you know, how do you, what are these kind of solutions that you have been offering? So the way Dr. Vispe mentioned, I'm sure the whole bulk of clinical and severe cases, you know, are the ones that approach an institution like Masina Hospital. What I noticed in my practice was that during the first lockdown Nazia, there was a larger number of people probably coming in with anxiety. You know, because there was this financial uncertainty, there was an uncertainty about how we are going to cope with the lockdown. There was no idea about how we are going to move across. However, with the second lockdown, there's just been a very, I wouldn't call it significant, but of course there's been a shift where I'm getting a lot of younger ones who are coming in typically in the age group of 18 to 25, roughly around 32. And now the idea or the major challenge that they are having is not, you know, anxiety or depression. It is this sense of hopelessness or helplessness because they were in an age group where they were looking forward to probably creating their careers and starting a new journey altogether. And in fact, very interestingly, one of the journals have been reported this emotion and called it languishing. So I actually saw this shift from, you know, a lot of anxiety and depression to that languishing where people didn't know why they are doing and what they are doing and where they are headed. And in fact, for them to ignite hope when you yourself don't know how long the situation is going to last was quite a journey actually. So you may tell them a lot of things as mental health expert and especially as a holistic health expert. I incorporate, you know, many dimensions of health, whether it's your nutrition, whether it's your fitness, whether it's your meditation, all of these aspects come into it. But with the restrictions and what do you do? There are people who are locked up in isolation and they are not allowed of their buildings. They're not allowed of their, you know, cubes. We in Mumbai, we live in very literally live in, you know, tiny nests out here. We do not even have space to go breathe. How do you tell them that, okay, you need to exercise and you need to ensure that you fix your diet? And at the same time, please stay connected with your family and stay connected with your friends because socially. How am I addressing it? How am I addressing it? Yes. So like I said, it's been a very, it's been quite a learning for me too. We try to do, you know, with a lot of history taking, we try and understand what outlets can work for this particular counseling. It cannot be a generalized approach. It needs to be so customized and it needs to really understand their fears and move around that. Some of those fears may just be, you know, just be fears. I mean, there's no basis to it. But you move, you move with that. But all of, for me, the main work still remains that it has to take into consideration all of these aspects. They are nutrition, their fitness, their social connects very importantly. So like I said, holistic health in fact came into a much bigger role rather than that piecemeal approach that was being implemented earlier. Dr. Hurdia, I mean, because you are an IVF expert and you deal with a lot of pregnant women, you know, postpartum depression has always been, you know, something that a lot of women go through. I myself had two pregnancies. The pregnancy in itself is, you know, such a difficult journey for women. Now, when you add COVID stress to it, I mean, what kind of outcomes? I mean, what kind of patients are you handling? And, you know, and you suffer from so many health issues when you're pregnant. Then with the pandemic around you, what is the mental state of women, you know, who are pregnant in the last one year? And how do you help them? How do you answer them? So I think the biggest problem with this COVID was that it certainly hit the world and people didn't know how to react. People didn't know what it can cause, what it can do and how to safeguard yourself. There have been a lot of misleading things happening, you know, digitally as well as through other medias where people were really confused as to what should be their step. We have been having patients who wanted to go for IVF, but they were really scared in terms of because of the fear of pregnancy. There were few misconceptions that can pregnant women go for a COVID vaccination, which still just got recently cleared off that they can. So till now, there was there was very uncertain situation that should I go for a COVID vaccination and then go for a pregnancy? Or if I am pregnant, how should I safeguard myself? Can I go for a vaccination or not? Which is I think now clear. So, you know, it was very typical for these patients and we had put in a lot of efforts, especially with the with the help of telemedicine teleconsultation. We have provided them with the helpline so they can get in touch with our doctors and they don't have to visit, you know, hospitals unnecessary to expose them to such kind of conditions. We have tried to provide them with, you know, authentic information because there have been so much information floating from all around. They really didn't know what to do and what not to do. We have tried to advise them to, you know, isolate themselves with other people, be away from people as much as possible to safeguard their pregnancy and to shield themself. But is there also not very depressing, you know, to be all alone when you're pregnant and how do you address the mental health aspect of it? Yeah, it is very depressing, right? And at times you can't do anything. If you are pregnant, that is the only option that you have, right? There is no other option. The only thing is use digital technology to be in touch with, you know, your relatives, your people, try to avoid, you know, physical contacts and coming close to people. It's just like, you know, there have been, you know, deliveries being happening, just imagine the kind of situation after that. You have a baby with you and then you can't let people, you know, be around you or help you out, right? Because it's very scary, you don't want to expose your babies to such kind of situation. So it has been really bad, but I think somehow the way digital has helped, you know, people connect to their doctors and this telemedicine thing floating around. It has really helped, I think, a lot of patients to get the right answers by connecting to the right doctors. Shamanta. Shamanta or Shamanta because you have written Shamanta. It's Shamanta, yeah, Shamanta. Okay, so Shamanta, if I can have you in the discussion, so you know, I was wondering, I've forgotten my question. So I wanted to ask, you know, let me go through my, basically, if you first tell me what are the kind of patients you're getting right now, and what are the solutions you're giving to them? So I work, since I work in a hospital setting, I usually see post op and pre op, right, and also, am I audible? Yes, but if you can be a little louder. I think we've lost, if I can, I remember the question, if I can come back to Mr. Jogchi, you know, the biggest problem with mental health has always been, first, there is a stigma attached to it. Secondly, it is very difficult to, you know, tell the person suffering from mental health issues, you know, to tell the person that you need some kind of help, you should go and see a doctor, people get offended, they're already going through a lot of turmoil within themselves. How do you handle these kind of situations, you know, how do you go and tell a person in your family or in your neighborhood or at work that, you know, you need help? See, basically, you're asking this question is the wrong person because I'm not a mental health professional. I mean, actually, I wanted to ask. Let's answer your question. See, there is a stigma to mental health, no doubt about it. But the fact that the acceptance that that mental health is an issue today has become easier, especially since the time people have started coming out in the open. Of course, COVID has helped to some extent, but more than that in the recent past, you know, celebrities talking about depression, celebrities talking about anxiety has helped. To my mind, one of the things which we want to introduce as a hospital is that even in any any executive health checkup in the hospital, you never get an executive health checkup which checks your mental health. I am very keen that, in fact, I had plans to introduce that in my executive health checkup in my hospital right from the beginning. Unfortunately, with COVID, all the executive health checkups also have closed down. You don't do executive health checkups at all. So a simple questionnaire, a dashboard or something, you know, which will just give a simple idea whether someone needs some screening tool is required to, you know, make people aware that well, you, I mean, you don't have to be actually having overt or covert symptoms of mental disorders. Sometimes they are so subtle that you will pick it up early and then maybe, you know, that's the time to intervene and make sure that you don't land up in a bad situation. I think that's what I would put it as my. Shamantha, the question I wanted to ask you then was that how if I notice, you know, if I feel that there is somebody in my family or my colleague, you know, or my in my neighborhood, who is who's become a little aggressive or you know who's become a loner, not talking the way you used to, how, what is the right way to approach the person and you know, tell the person that, you know, I think you need help or you need to go and see, because people get very offended the minute you try to tell them that you could have mental issues, they come back and say you have mental issues, you have lost it, you know, so how do you handle that? Absolutely. Also sorry, what are some signs that we should notice, you know, what are the first few signs that are very important to, you know, observe, which give you that idea that this person might be suffering from something to do with mental health. Okay, so answering your second question first, so we need to look out for the signs and symptoms, right, so any mental health need to be louder. So answering your second question first, we need to look out for the signs and symptoms, right, so any mental health disorder or symptom for that matter will have certain symptoms like it can have physiological symptoms, it can have emotional symptoms, it can have physical symptoms, right, so when first we need to understand what are these symptoms and what are these signs and what are they related to, right, so if it's like anxiety for that matter, right. So they will be showing bodily cues, they will have some sort of reaction to a particular situation, so we need to understand, then we will be able to tell that, okay, yes, this person is having an issue, right, but and again, if it's depression for that matter, they will try and avoid social situations or they might isolate themselves or they might have excessive crying, disturbed sleep and appetite, right, so each problem has a different set of signs and symptoms, so depending on that, we will be able to identify that, right, and what was the first question again? First question is that how do you approach the person and convince the person to go and see somebody like you or Bhavna. Right, I think first understanding who is very close to that person, I think like any random person just cannot go and like talk to them and say, you need help, right, because they might get offended, even though they would need help. Saying the way you say it also matters, right, how you say it, where you say it matters a lot, you can't say it in public, you can't say it in a way that could be disrespectful or offensive to that person, right, so you need to understand, okay, this is a sensitive matter, right, and maybe I have to be close enough to that person to be able to have a discussion around this topic, right, and once I do that, and also if you cannot approach that person directly, like, you know, have this conversation with them directly, then maybe giving them an example, right, or you know, like talking in terms of a third person and helping them realize that, okay, you know, you, like you too can take help, right, like since somebody else took help and felt better or, you know, put themselves in a better situation because of taking help and there is no stigma or shame surrounded around taking help, right, because there's mental health and stigma just like come hand in hand. Okay, so I think reducing that stigma and normalizing the fact that you can take help, whether it's, whether you have to take medication or just go to therapy, and also helping them understand that people who just want to talk about their week also go to mental health professionals not just people who have severe mental health issues, so informing people about this, educating people will really help. I want to come back to you, Kelly, I just want to add very briefly to it, you know, how do you suggest one should approach somebody who's suffering from mental health? So, Nasi, I get a lot of parents who ask, how do I get my child into therapy or a lot of spouses who say, how do I get my partner to, you know, be part of this therapy process and I always tell them, yeah, yeah, like children saying, can I get my mother to therapy and it isn't easy for a child to do that and I always tell them irrespective of whether the person comes or doesn't come, the first thing you need to do is be a genuine listener, you know, I've realized that most of the times people want help, they just don't ask for it because like I said, it's the stigma or their egos get in the way or they feel that they are going to be judged, but every time the supporting people around have been good listeners and they actually go with the idea of, you know, suggesting things rather than implying that, okay, you need help, people have been more open to seeking therapy. So I usually, in fact, land up training the people who come to me for somebody else, I train them on how to become a better listener and maybe the other person would feel much more at ease saying, okay, you know, what I think I'll take your suggestion. Piyani, you told us that, you know, you have suffered from anxiety and despite suffering from anxiety or your own issues, you've done remarkably well in your career, you've won awards as a marketing and communication expert. So I would really want you to take us through your story and also tell us what are the kind of support an employee would need, you know, from your office or you know, your, and how do you speak to them and what, where are the loopholes and what can be done to improve it all. Nazia, thanks for the question. So I've been, you know, a mental illness survivor, I like to call myself because I've suffered for over 23 years, I continue to live with clinical depression and anxiety so it's not just anxiety. And, you know, I just think that, you know, mental health is a spectrum right it's it's on one end of it you have people like me who are severely ill. And on the other hand, end of it you have people who are perhaps going through some kind of a phase, you know, are starting to probably show some kind of symptoms and they would want to just talk about it. Like Havana also was saying, you know, the importance of listening right. I think specifically talking about the kind of support system that you need at work. I just feel, and without, you know, mincing words I'd like to say that I think India is far behind. I think that most organizations and I'm talking about very large organizations I wouldn't be unfortunately taking names here. But I've worked with very, very large organizations where my personal experience has been that you know people have very, very low to nil awareness about how do you deal with people with mental illness. And it's challenging because it's, it's a dual battle then for people like us because you're fighting a battle with your own mind where there are voices in your head that you can't necessarily control and there are voices that are going on telling you that you're going to fail. You know your life is not worth living you're not good enough you're good for nothing. Everything is wrong everything is going wrong. So that's the that's an internal battle that you fight and then externally you fight a battle with the ecosystem that you're within, which kind of identifies you as somebody that's a little different a little off somebody that is a loner is not a people's person, which is typically not looked at as a good sign in in a corporate setup is not, you know, is not a team player you know these are the words that you know this is the sort of typical feedback that is kind of given to people that isolate themselves, and not realizing that that's actually, you know, a symptom of a disease that the person kind of lives with right and it all stems from tremendous amount of apathy. I think the correct word is apathy because it's not just about not knowing it's about not wanting to know because it's not their reality. It's, it's almost and I'm sure that you know things have changed quite a bit in the last year and a half with COVID. Dr mentioned that you know he's seen a 30 to 40% rise in cases and obviously that has led to greater awareness, and while COVID has taken away a lot I think the one thing that it's given is higher awareness around mental illness and mental health in general. But I think that you know, even today, I think organizations have no structured way of dealing with people with mental illness there is no policy in place I mean, last year when Zomato declared, you know, a period leaves. Right there was so much of chatter around it right. But when would we actually see mental health leaves. Right. I mean when when can an employee very safely writer letter to a manager and I'm very I'm actually currently very fortunate to be a part of an organization where I have leadership which is extremely empathetic. But that's never that that's not really been the case all my 15 years that have been, you know, in the business right. Because you know when you're going when you're feeling the way you, you feel when you're mentally ill, you are constantly under this continuous worry that you know if I talk about the fact that I'm, I'm mentally not okay. My performance and the way I am in the organization will be looked at through the prism of oh she's mentally ill, and therefore she's a burden or oh you know I mean she's problematic or things that's the usual narrative right. So the point is that you know a like I said there is no structured way of dealing with people there is lack of awareness there is a pati, there is tremendous amount of, you know, neglect, right, because you know, I mean, if you can give an example of how did you handle on day to day basis, you know, having a corporate job and having the stillness. How did you tackle the issue. I mean, you know, you tackle it because there's no other way. It's like, you know, it's like asking, I mean what's the, what's the alternative do you just quit and do you just kind of give up on everything in life you can because you know you have. You have to how do you survive. It's very tough Nazia it's extremely tough to survive because yeah but but I would want you to tell us, you know, in a way and so the people who are listening would know that there is a way to survive because you have survived. I think that the way to survive is to continue to do what you're doing and focusing on the things that you're good at, and to, to ensure that you know you are able to. You know you're able to distance the disease from the person. Right. You know the disease is a part of us, but it is not. It is not entirely who we are there are other aspects to us so for example I'm mentally ill but I could also be somebody that's good at painting or you know is is a good friend, a good listener. You know, fun to hang out with amongst people that are genuinely like not necessarily a lot of people but you know people that are genuinely like. I'm somebody that could be very well read for example so there are other aspects to me that also make up who I am professional you might be having some bad days but on most other days you are doing your job pretty well. So here's here's the thing about it right there are days and there are many days that you don't even feel like getting off the bed. That's a reality, right. And again it differs from person to person not everybody's cases as severe as me or as chronic as mine, but there are many days when you don't feel like even getting off the bed forget attending meetings, but the way I've been able to cope with it to just constantly tell myself that you've just got to do this you've just got to do this and you cannot let the disease become bigger than you. Right. And have you taken help of professional counselors. Of course, of course, I mean if you've lived with the disease for over half your life, you've you've reached out to every possible doctor and psychologist and psychiatrist and taken all kinds of help that there is out there, and the best of health, but in certain cases, you know, there's something called treatment resistant depression, which is DRD, and I don't want to get too technical but I'm sure you know there are doctors on this panel so I'm sure they would know what I'm talking about. My case is that unfortunately so it is kind of treatment resistant. I still haven't given up hope and I continue to take my medicines. But, but, you know, like I said, not everybody's cases has severe. There are cases that are less severe and they're able to manage better. I am able to manage the way I am because I've lived with it for so long. So for me now, I have been able to you ask me how do you cope. One of the ways of coping is to be able to identify your triggers is to be able to list down. You know, what are the things that could be potential triggers or have been triggers in the past and how do you kind of build a shield around yourself to try and see if you can protect yourself from those triggers. It's not going to happen all the time. You're not going to be able to protect yourself every time from those triggers. There would be days when you would be triggered by something something not working out or you know something frustrating you deeply. But the idea is to try and constantly kind of build that wall around yourself to that's my personal mechanism it differs from person to person I'm just telling you what works for me. And it is it is the ability to to identify triggers. Right. So I think going back to, you know, corporate policies, I think that one of the things that I strongly feel about is, you know, when we talk about diversity and inclusion at work, you know, diversity and inclusion is not just about hiring 50% women, that is one kind of diversity and I'm, you know, me being a woman and being a, you know, very proud feminist, I think that I'm all for diversity in the board room all for breaking the glass ceiling and having more women but diversity and inclusion is also about ensuring that you have enough. People of different backgrounds and different worldviews right people with mental illness have a very different world view which in many cases could actually be an asset to the company which most most companies don't realize. For example, when you live with anxiety, you're you're you're kind of always, you know, you're always pre emptying what can go wrong. Right. You can become risk averse but you're always kind of sniffing out problems before anybody else can because you look at everything as a risk factor right you look at everything as a potential source of risk. Now that in many ways could actually be a positive thing in a team, because everybody else might be like oh you know we're going to be very gung-ho about something. And then you need that one person to say that hey but listen, have we thought about this and this could actually backfire. Right. So having neurodiverse people in the organization and actually, you know, making that effort to, you know, go out and look for people that live with, you know, neurodiversity of some sort. And again neurodiversity is massive but you know, I think I think is is one of the things that organizations should very very actively doing be doing just as they should be actively hiring LGBTIQ people, for example, right. Similarly, I think there should be representation of people that are mentally ill because when you see somebody who's mentally ill who's successful, who is in the senior leadership, it gives you tremendous confidence and tremendous impetus to go on and tell yourself that listen if she could or if he could, I can do, and I'm going to do this right so yeah. Because of technical issues we started late and now we are already out of time Mr. Jadeel has already joined for the next panel. So, you know, now I would discuss that last final thing which which I hope we can discuss for next 10 minutes at least. How can we make, you know, like, there was this incident of Deepika Padukone coming out and you know talking about mental health issues then there was Ali Abarth's sister who started talking about her mental health issues. How can we, as a nation, as people, you know, how can celebs and how can brands embrace this and you know, make it, make it perfectly fine to you know have mental health issues and bring in more awareness about it so I can, I can start with Mr. Dr. Amudhya, you know, if you can, if you would want to talk about it because I also remember Isha there talk about postpartum depression, you know how she suffered and from it and she overcame it. So what can celebs and brands and corporates do about this whole issue of mental health? I think India really lacks, you know, the awareness about it and you know what Piya Ali has described, you know, for me it's very difficult to even understand, right, because someone who has suffered really knows what he or she has been through. The person on the other side doesn't realize what they have done, right. We have had a long array of discussions with LGBT people and you know, finally India has achieved that level where now we recognize that they also, you know, are a part of the society. I think there has to be something which is the lead from example. The organization have to take it as a priority and channelize it. It is not just having a policy around and just saying that we have something like this in place. It is about, you know, you have to lead by example, you have to share, let's say, for this, you know, COVID crisis. The managers need to talk about their mental, you know, wellness issues to employ under them. Then only you can initiate a discussion. There has to be a lot of, you know, effort being made from the media side. There has to be effort made from the celebrity side. I still remember a movie, Thare Zameepar, right, which had a bit of flavor about the same issue. So that created a lot of ripples that, you know, something like this exists, otherwise people don't know and people don't understand that something like this exists. As psychologists, yes, you guys definitely get cases which are, you know, of these nature and you know and you understand that something like this can happen. But for a normal public, for normal organizations, for normal people, they are unaware of all this thing. They really don't understand that, you know, someone can go through this and what is the kind of struggle that they have. This is something that we need to bring out as a society. We need to accept it as how we have accepted other things in India. And I think there is so much work to be done on this because COVID has really shown us that, you know, this thing has become a highlight now. People are suffering from it and at the end of the day, it is the organization that will be suffering if the employees of the organization are having mental health issues. And there have been studies conducted in the western world which says that every $1 that you invest on the mental health, you will have additional $2 to $4 of revenue being generated for the organization. So I think it is something that we really need to work on now. I think we need to take that quote from you later and circulate it to as many corporates as we can. So Chamanta, you have to sum it up for me in two minutes because I really need to wrap up. Yeah, sure. I completely agree with Dr. Murthy. But adding to that, I completely agree with Dr. Murthy, but adding to that, I would like to say that, you know, create safe spaces for people to converse about mental health, you know, whether it's creating social support groups, right? It could be formal or informal and also having regular conversations about mental health in the workplace setting, right? Even at homes, I get a lot of cases where people tell me that they cannot discuss about mental health at home because it's not even acknowledged, right? So when they say that I am going through so and so, family members just brush it off and say, you know what, it's just, you know, you're just pretending or maybe like, you know, this is just a phase, get over it and things like that. So having that conversation is so, so important. Nazia, taking from what Piali just addressed so beautifully, I believe the one way where we can create that huge impact which is required, you know, vis-a-vis the slow growth that we are seeing on the awareness and accessibility is to create a more community-based approach. People need to rethink their relationship in communities and there are so many communities that need to come together to create an entire ecosystem. Talk about mental health in schools, talk about mental health among pregnant women, talk about mental health among the chronically ill in the hospitals, talk about mental health of the caregivers. So unless each community and each ecosystem does its bit in getting the awareness done, I think that complete chain and link chain doesn't get created. So whether we are talking about conventional medicine and doctors out there who treat you for maybe physical ailments, what stops them from bringing in this element of, you know what, if you're feeling too disconnected with your physical health situation, why don't you also approach a therapist? Why don't you also go to a counselor? Why don't you also see a psychiatrist? It needs to get normalized on multiple levels so that people know that they are in an ecosystem and not an isolated hunt to find support for their mental health. So I believe we need to interlink these community efforts together. Dr. Joshi. So basically, of course, everybody has spoken about this aspect of, you know, widespread awareness. And actually, to some extent in Masina Hospital, the fact that we have a mental health unit for a long time, it's like almost natural for many of our patients to sort of seek mental health. So it is not that bad in our hospital as such, but in society. My question was here, how to create awareness and what can we as a society and particularly corporate, you know, offices can do for their employees to improve. Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying that to mainstream this mental health issue is therefore I spoke in the beginning to, you know, make it a part of a mental health, matter of physical and mental health checkup. As I said, an executive health checkup should have mental component itself, besides that the question of see basically everybody is afraid of mental health illnesses because person almost not only does it put you back, it affects your own livelihood. It affects the livelihood of the caregivers who are around you because they don't know what to do with you, you become unproductive. And the last and most important thing is when you have a mental health illness, it becomes a very costly and a socio economically destroying affair for you. It's completely, you know, it puts the whole family's socio economic status, so I mean, there is a finiteness to a physical illness, which is not there in a mental illness. This is a prolonged illness. It's something which is a fear of the unknown. And even if you become aware, and you want to seek help, you are afraid of, you know, going ahead and and actually seeking help. So there are many dimensions to this, the awareness of course is the first factor but today in our in our country, it has to get coupled with the cost of treatment also, because ultimately today. Although the Mental Health Act mandates that insurance is supposed to be given, but is this the ground reality. That's a question I always ask them on the ground, you do not get insurance for mental health illnesses because there are still not proper no proper guidelines for that. I mean, you know, in any convention insurance you don't declare a pre existing disease. You're how do you define pre existing disease. How do we find an attempt at suicide whether suicide is supposed to be given a status of a mental illness or whether it has to be treated and what is the cost of treatment. So there are many other aspects to this besides just the awareness, so that I am sorry I have digressed a bit when but I touched on a topic because I feel that it's all. But that's absolutely necessary you need to cover mental illness in under insurance otherwise a lot of people would would not go I mean I know somebody who was seeking going to a counselor with a counselor would charge 3000 or 4000 per hour that was adding to the mental illness not reducing it. Absolutely. So, if you can conclude the session for us. Well, I think that three things one is a first recognize that mental illness is an illness, right, I think that awareness has to be built to raise enough awareness through conversations to involve stakeholders for example the press. These for example, like Dr Babna said, and to to acknowledge that mental illness is an illness is not something that is in your mind right. The second thing I think is, you know, to be able to, you know, actively encourage conversations in corporate setups where, you know, people can come out and share their stories, which gives other people the courage to do that, and helps destigmatize it helps demystify it like Dr Joki also said that you know this is the this is a fear of the unknown. And that's the only way to kind of do that and the third obviously is to have, you know, test makers, influencers, people in the in in in the know. People in the limelight like for example the pickup people of influence, who would be able to come out and share their stories because that also gives tremendous amount of, you know, courage for people like me to come out and talk about what it is like to actually live with an illness like this so I think you know that's how I would sum up some it up three, three key things. Thank you all for joining us and I've been getting messages for last five minutes included, although I would have loved to have this conversation going on for another half an hour or so I mean this is really enriching. Thanks again and you guys are really doing a great job because you know many illnesses has become a big problem for our country I was reading the report that WH of the India I think is the most depressed country right now. It is the most after China. Okay, I think it's really population I think. Yeah. Any issues, thank you. Thanks again and we're very sorry that we started late because of technical problems and we have to finish it more or less on time. Thanks a lot. Thank you again. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you sir. Thank you very much.