 Podcasts was roundtable round 126 are you feeling burned out? So we're gonna cover the issue. I feel like it's a trendy topic and you're seeing YouTube videos. I mean popping up like every day like I'm quitting or I'm burnt out or what that means and really this topic came to be because As per usual, I'm scrambling last minute putting together a roundtable. You see just only three of us I've been I've been trying forever to get a Particular roundtable or on to the show for the first time I got him and he's currently dealing with this So it comes from his own suggestion and that's really how the roundtable works. Anyways, it's built by the people all right speaking of America all right, so let's meet those roundtables Dave co-host welcome back. Yeah, glad to be here. This is We're talking earlier. I'm like this is fitting me rather perfectly right now as I get ready to go to New York and then Florida and Submit my thing for podcast movement and blah blah blah. So yeah, Dave Jackson from the school of podcasting calm very cool Thanks for knowing how to fill the air to give me enough time to take a sip. I was watching and like is he done with the sipping? Okay, the beauty of video is we can communicate non-verbally Podcasters communicating non-verbally. What is that about? It's crazy First-time roundtable or I think Bandrew. Yeah, thank you very much. My name is Bandrew. I run a YouTube channel called a podcastage and God forbid it. I am on a condenser microphone today. What is happening? I'm not on the SM7B I am speaking into your favorites chosen mic. It's on the logo or was at some point or it's in your your show art There's somewhere. Yeah, somewhere. Yeah, you're like known for it, but you were happy when I made the switch Very having the microphone. It's it's a good microphone. I did a whole episode on the podcast or studio about it So I don't need to talk about it here but Bandrew yeah, you know, it's funny because your channel so everything I consume of you is be a YouTube and I even said today when we were sitting DMs About this round like is your stuff even available on the feed and I know when I first sound found your channel It's very confused by the name because it was podcast it shows like oh This is podcast content and then it was like gear stuff So I was like, okay, totally related, but I'm like, where's the podcast? Where's the podcast? So where is the podcast? There's a separate channel that I made for that. I attempted well when I first launched the channel I had intended to do both podcasts gear reviews do a bunch of stuff Oh, now we know the problem now. We see how we got to this topic Yeah, but the Variety channels on YouTube don't really work that well So I opted to after trying to put my show on the podcastage channel and seeing that it was not doing well And it was hurting the distribution of my other videos I launched a standalone podcast channel called bandrew says not the best name for a podcast because Only people who know me are gonna find it, but I launched a separate channel and for all the podcast police out there Yes, there is an RSS feed. That's how it started. So it is technically a podcast That's Dave Dave was this iron was about the light Down the road I could hear it it was it was gonna be bad news for you a kick Dave kicking in the door I am and it is on Libsyn Now he's just playing to the crowd and this is ridiculous know your audience that's the first rule Yes, all right. Well, hey, we do have three hosts I mean it pretty much almost everyone on that comes on this podcast is a host I think so and I'm expecting you guys to help sort of host this round drive this conversation because it is different We're not doing stories today. We're just gonna tackle this topic and Andrew came up with another topic. So it may lead into that as well, which has to do with YouTube and podcast So dude true spirit of the round table. We're just Podcasters getting together to chat to chat about the thing we love. So that's what we're doing Going back band you for a second there where you talked about you switch to a podcast specific Channel for your podcast and you said Something along the lines of it the variety channels don't do well. So yeah, you mean it didn't do well for your audience It's not good YouTube strategy. What do you mean by it didn't doesn't do well to mix it up on a YouTube channel like that Okay, so there have been a lot of discussions recently between YouTube gurus and a lot of actual evidence from youtubers who try to do Variety channels that it actually does harm the distribution of your videos if they change too much if the Algorithm is harmed or what's harmed? Yeah, the the algorithm. It's not intentionally saying this is a variety channel Let's kill it. What is happening is you're gaining an audience for one type of video in my in my Perspective or in my experience it is microphone reviews. That's what people come to watch Then when they see a podcast an hour and a half long or an hour long video of me just ranting about random tech They're not expecting that and they don't watch that long. So the watch time is Decreased quite significantly from my regular videos and that tells the YouTube algorithm his audience doesn't like what he's doing Let's not distribute this to new people So the YouTube algorithm doesn't differentiate between the series that you're doing on your channel every single video you upload is directly inputting information into the algorithm and If you have a video that doesn't do well that will harm the distribution of your following video So that's what was happening. I was uploading content people weren't expecting. Yeah, this this Podcast which is recorded here live on YouTube was moved was originally on my YouTube channel. I just mixed it in I mean, it's related right. We're talking about podcasting and theory. That's a I mean I'm probably more known for DSLR type video stuff But I do podcast tutorials there as well what I noticed is that because I moved it off to its own channel It's only now YouTube comm slash podcasters round table. You should be over there sub We're I think we're probably at 7 we might have hit 700 I tweeted out that we were like right on the precipice of hitting 700 We might be there now. Anyways numbers don't matter and I moved it off because what I was seeing is that this I Was getting more views for this content But I was equally losing like wide release of podcasters round table and I'd lose a ton of subs So it's a trade-off like do I want to expose that audience? I was picking up people So it really was kind of a question of are those quality pickups like I was picking up I was amazed that the people who are watching my channel were Interested in coming over to the round table or they would say I had no idea this podcast existed I love it, but at the same time I'd lose like 30 subscribers. So I kind of had to choose so and as a consumer of YouTube I Generally have an idea of what I want from a channel when I go to it, right? And so I was like, yeah, we'll move it off. We'll just make it its own thing So it is an interesting question. Look at that. We've actually started. I think we started with the topic I said we might lead into a set of the lead-off topic Classic round table fashion. Just throw it through the script out the door. There's no script All right Well, let's talk a little bit about burnout because I think people in the the chat are interested in this And we have I see Sean McCabe. He's in there. He's a great youtuber as well. He said he Sabbaticals helped him avoid burnout, but I'm curious What was my first question? What were the first signs? So Dave first of all raise your hand if you've experienced burnout I'm raising my hand. Banjee's got his up and Dave. We all feel like we've experienced this So when Dave, when did you like one of the first signs that you said I might be burning out here? Now how long ago in and what were those signs? Well, just like right now I'm in like mid burnout. Is this the first time though? You've felt that no, usually forever for me It's stupid mistakes Like you wake up in the morning and they're like, hey Do you know your show notes have like just boatloads of typos and you're like well That's funny because I remember fixing those and it turned out I had like three wordpress windows open and Did it on one, but somehow it didn't save or whatever. So just stupid mistakes like that or You forget an appointment like you scheduled with somebody and you didn't put on your calendar Just just little things you're like, you know, this is things that make you look unprofessional for me The other one is my desk. My desk is a great indicator of how things are going and right now I can't see mine because when things are going good, I'm neat and tidy and ready to go my weight's another one because when I'm getting burnout a lot of stuff coming through my Driver-side window that does not help But I'm thinking it's gonna be faster and if you actually do the math on that It's not by the time I drive to Burger King Wait no drive through come back go through all the red lights and get back I could have easily made my own dinner, but it's fast food, but it's not so these are just some of the things but the one for me and then just This afternoon I ate lunch and fell asleep in a chair That's that's a pretty big red flag, you know, and it's weird because you know This is gonna happen So like you set an alarm on your phone in case you fall asleep because like you don't want to wake up at three and go Wow, I was supposed to be back at work two hours ago So those are some things for me that I just go and it's the thing that sucks is when you know Hey, wow, I'm getting crispy and you've got another two weeks of just Keep your nose to the grindstone. What is crispy? Do you just mean there's like a ton of high-end in your microphone? That's it. It's a lot of that. It's I need a de-esser really bad But no, just just things where We were joking earlier. It's that old saying right your your brain rights checks that your body can't cash Kind of thing where you just you look at your schedule and you go Yeah, that's that's gonna be a little busy and then you're just like halfway through and going So that's that's me. How about you bandrew? To be honest my audience knew before I did Hmm that's something that I think a lot of people don't think about your audience is incredibly smart and perceptive and I would see an increasing number of comments saying hey, you feeling alright there, man You feeling okay? And I was like, you know what maybe I'm not maybe I have too much on my plate but then the day job just keeps getting more stressful then There's just not as much joy in it as there was at the beginning and it's like well, that's why am I even doing it then? I don't want to stop making them making reviews or making podcasts So what can I do to resolve this issue? And it seems like I began dreading Making a second video every single week because I was so exhausted I felt like I didn't have anything new to say I had not Had time to Contemplate what the next microphone really was I was just going through the motions so I feel like it was a mix of a Loss of enjoyment and actually making the content but also the audience knowing and telling me Hey, you doing okay, man, because they could see I was looking exhausted and I was just speaking More monotone and just seemingly bored with this with the stuff. I was making yeah That's an interesting one when you say the audience notice because we always hear like hey Don't don't chill stuff that you don't believe in and your audience can tell and it's not genuine and you know Oftentimes, I'll think how true is that right like can audience really tell and a hundred percent very interesting to hear You know, well, I mean you're on YouTube so you have this extra element of visual You're saying oh you look tired, which is always the best when someone says man, you look tired like thanks bud. Thanks It's just lines from being smiling too much. All right, I smile a lot leave me alone But um, you know, you have that extra element on an audio-only podcast And I think it would be harder to tell but maybe not maybe people can hear it in your presentation style. I don't know Sean McCabe in the chat he says this is the burnout litmus test if you're wondering whether you're burned out you already are Yeah So if you started thinking about it the questions popping in your mind There's a reason right and so I guess a little bit about that reason Can you do you think you can pinpoint the cause in your case? So Bandra, do you think you can pinpoint the cause of what made you feel burnt out? I Think I can and this is going to sound very It's a standard answer I think but it was really it came down to me starting to compare myself to others I was looking at other YouTubers and podcasters and thinking I need to do everything that they're doing because they are so much more successful than I am but then When I started to get Increasingly more tired and lose a little bit of enjoyment in what I was doing I took a step back and realized what am I doing? I am a Single person. I work a day job. These are people who do this full-time and they have entire teams So it's all began with me Looking at these certain communities on YouTube and saying look at how much they're doing look at how successful they're being Look at how they're capitalizing on the news in this way. I need to do that, too You don't need to you're all different people every single creator has a different Workload every single different creator has different standards. We can't all do what MKBHD does We can't all do what John Prosser in front-page tech does because we don't do this full-time At least not all of us and we don't all have an entire team behind us supporting us in that I don't think that most people know that or not and when I first got into podcast. I thought wow These guys must have there must be somebody there They must have a team and I find out it's just one dude in a basement like and I'm like wow impressed So sometimes you can't tell I would say a lot of times your audience doesn't they may assume wrongly that this is what you do For a living right so hey, Andrew should have a video every week like I I watch I subscribe I buy stuff from his affiliate links, you know, why the heck is not a video here And I don't know if you know because if you are professional if you present yourself professionally if you are consistent People don't know they don't know what goes behind that so I'm always curious like, you know What do people think of content producers and what what is sort of behind that and a lot of this audience knows That it's a grind to do this yeah all the time and they know what they're putting into it And but I don't think the majority of the audience in general. That's not Content creators has any idea alright, so it can be hard to understand when your next video comes out and says I'm burnt out Yeah, it's done. It was interesting. I didn't make a video on it I just did a community post on YouTube and then on that note Somebody left a comment saying but you hardly release any videos Man, I got a full-time job, but I do a podcast get off my back I said it much more civilly and I wasn't rude to the guy, but I just explained that this isn't my full-time job So you can't expect me to be as prolific as other people for free content. Yeah Have you heard the the new Ron Burgundy podcast? You know Will Ferrell and it sounds like it's him and some woman that I've never heard of off mic By the way, which drives me nuts and it sounds like you're thinking will Ferrell is a Improv genius as they're going through this whole thing and they get to the end And I think it was nine different people help write that thing Okay, thank you for that blah blah blah and one of the names was not will Ferrell, which I thought was weird It's like our head writer is so-and-so and but I was like well that explains why that was funny Is there nine people working on it? It's amazing how many comedians have a writing team behind them I found this out a little bit on a tour I was doing and I was like there's a you have a writer that helps Yeah, it's interesting. I mean I Think the other thing that that leads to burnout is bright shiny syndrome So it's like oh, this is fun If if one vitamin is good two vitamins must be great three must be oh my god I'm gonna be Superman and so you keep adding one more little thing and you don't think about it in the long run Like I've started so many shows that were supposed to be tests I mean ask the podcast coach was supposed to last a month and then people like no no keep it here And then so you you worry about that's just your excuse to start right? You're like you tell yourself It's just gonna be a test. That's it and then you you think about okay I'm only gonna do this for a short period and then you you get sucked into and This I have to watch how to say this but you like you don't want to let down your audience. Yeah, no, that's legit I mean we definitely want to talk about that because I feel like Most people go on because of the audience. They don't they don't put themselves first I think you have to be a little selfish in this process and by a little I mean probably a lot So we'll talk about that keep going Dave remind me well No, I just I had a show called weekly web tools and when I first started it when I first started podcasting everything I did got a podcast so I was doing web design a little bit So I did this show the DIY webmaster It's a weekly web tool and I really thought my audience was gonna chime in and they they didn't until every time I threatened to quit I'm like hey, I'm getting kind of crispy on this I think I'm gonna let it go and then here would come a big surge and that would keep me going and I just remember the last episode I'd spent about three hours and I just had reviewed everything that I wanted to review I was like there's nothing new here And I just said this is I think I think we're done and I just dawned on me that I finally found Something but it wasn't like something I'd be like right wait till you hear about this cool tool is like All right, well this will do and I just thought I'm not spending hours to put out meh All right here you go and so I just wouldn't that this is we're done with this This is I got other things I could be doing with three hours for the time that is resulting in meh So that was that was why I just had to go and and you know the hundreds of people that were listening to that I just said hey I've got like 18 billion other shows over here If you if you need a day fix come find me over here and and I you know and to the best of my knowledge My you know my house was not set on fire. Nobody's punched me in the face You know the the sun came up the next morning. So being busy or adding new content to an already existing lineup or even one podcast of you know a lineup of content Feels like a content creator dilemma like we we have ideas We want to do new things how we got started if you last any amount of time It's because you have ideas and you and you do them, right? I am curious does burnout does that does burnout have to equal being busy or having too much to do, right? So are the only people it can be burnout or people who are doing podcasts and a YouTube They're tweeting they're blogging, you know what I mean like have three podcasts or can can a can a podcaster Or blogger or YouTube anyone just have one thing and a burnout. I what does burnout really mean or I don't know It's not mean. It's it's I Think it's relative, right? I don't think it matters how much you have to do It does I feel like when people say burnout you just assume. Oh my gosh that person's doing too much Maybe doing too much. I guess it could be one. I don't remember asking here. What do you guys think of that? Yeah, I think it really does depend on on the person's capability of Multitasking or at least handling stress. I know that I do not handle stress. Well, I internalize it So do I that's what the psychiatrist told me and I said, how do I fix that? And he said you got to figure it out It's like thanks. Thanks. That doesn't help me at all. I doesn't help me at all So I do think it differs from person to person it is all relative and Somebody with just one project can easily burn out if they are if they have a stressful day job that one hour per week That they put into their show or those three hours that could be what's necessary for them to keep an equilibrium Keep that last bit of sanity that they're hanging on to Speaking from personal experience here I Yeah, cuz I don't want to I don't want to confuse burnout with pod fade because there are times when like I've got I've got tons of energy. I'm not busy at work. I'm not stressed out. I Just don't want to talk about this anymore. Hmm. And I want to go talk about something else That's not burnout. You just don't you got bored with the subject. Yeah, that's just bored. Um, but this is like I would love to do more. I'm trying got, you know, 17 plates spinning and I'm thinking about starting an 18th That's where you're like and and you're just okay So for me at least that's what what are the effects of burnout then? Okay? If it's not boredom It's not just and I just don't I don't have a topic and I'm forced to pick one because hey It's the next week, you know, what it how does burnout manifest if it's not just I just don't want to talk about this You know for you, how did it manifest? You're like, I I Need to go to bed or I'm going to just cry like what you know what I mean? How to demand it How does it matter? I've done both of those But it's I cry in bed with a beer in my hands. That's exactly for me. I find myself at a refrigerator or Grabbing yet another protein bar, and I'm not the least bit hungry. Oh I'm like and it's like especially when it's like yeah, exactly and And Andrew this is a thumbnail right here, buddy And so when I find myself and usually when that is it's when I'm getting ready to record and I'm like I'm not sure if this is really great a material. I'm kind of like I've done a lot of research I guess this is as good as it's gonna get and I'm just like me so for me I that I think sometimes and it just results in stress or You wake up at four and you're like, holy crap It's four and then you're you hear your hard drive in your brain start to spin and you're like no no no spinning and like oh dang it I'm awake now, and then it's like here we go. We're gonna start brainstorming about next week's episode So for me it's stress and lack of sleep. How about you bandroop? I I think it's this may seem melodramatic But it's this overwhelming sense of dread Just everything seems too much to handle. I would wake up and then I'd be dreading going to work I would when I was leaving work I'd be dreading having to jump in and make another video I'd be dreading having to research a microphone or do any of these things and it's not for the lack of Me enjoying talking about audio gear because I love that stuff. It is just I didn't have the mental capacity to Take on any more or do it another day I needed to be able to watch some freaky horror film to put everything in perspective where I could just say You know what at least I am not being murdered in my day-to-day life I think it's it's would you say it's kind of you lose some of your sharpness, maybe Yeah, I definitely think that is the case because when I get in that position And I am sure a lot of creators would agree with this. It's you start to let a few things slide It's just oh, that's good enough. You're not up to your usual standard and that's when I think you risk alienating your audience So it may actually be beneficial for your career for your show for your YouTube channel whatever it is to take a break or take a step back or in my case reduce your release schedule so you have some time to decompress and Spend that extra time to relax get some get some sanity back and then start working on the next one You have a little bit more time to to focus on stuff and then also a cool thing about Taking some time for yourself is you may find some inspiration and that will get you excited about it again But if you're constantly just grinding and grinding and grinding you don't have time for yourself You don't have time to find new things to be excited about because it becomes such a routine And that's something that I'm finally starting to get to the point where it's like oh, yeah I remember I liked listening to music. What is that? I liked playing guitar. What in the world? Hey, while you're in Spotify, you might find another great podcast. You're welcome spotify Little promo for you. I don't use Spotify. Yeah, me either I Heather in the chat says it's exhaustion feeling broken feeling out of control and you know, Andrew you said dread is it's very good Description like I'm like off that I just I dread looking at my email because it really is It becomes an avalanche of stuff that is just you're just trying to hold off Right and then when you back off a little bit it piles up even more, right? So like do is burnout created by ourselves or is there something about being a content creator or the audience? I mean, obviously it's by ours. It's it's from us. It's we're putting our own pressure on ourselves But you know, there's people start a podcast and like we're the we're the Daily Tech show But probably a bad place to start right but now it's gonna happen. It's inevitable. Like you can't commit to anything for a every day every week and Just when there's no end defined. We're just gonna do this thing and we're gonna do it till whenever like That's tough. So where do you think? Do you think there's any external? Pressures that come with burnout like is there a reason why we're pushing so hard Is it all come from within I would think or is there is there something external if we're don't show up every week Does our show drop, right? Do we not do we not you just in his algorithm gonna punish us, right? That's that's the answer. We're all worried like what happens If we never if we never take our foot off the gas We have no idea what will happen if we take our foot off the gas except all of the all of us have I believe on Dave. I don't know if you take your foot off the gas ever, but no, I haven't you're too scared Well, I mean when you when you hit a deer on the way home And you're recording your podcast at two in the morning in a hotel because you haven't missed a Monday in 12 years, that's a problem. That's where it's like I think you're and and that's the thing I always tell you recognize that as a problem. Yeah, I think that's a problem. Do you think that's a problem? Yeah, I because here's the thing if your audience Truly knows likes and trusts you and they go hey Dave, where's the show and you go? Oh, I hit a deer on the way home Sorry, they're not gonna go. Oh, that's it man. I'm unsubscribing, you know, if they truly like you They're gonna you know my you know, whatever grandma died again or whatever the thing is if they truly if you have a connection with your audience They're gonna understand that sorry. I chopped off my foot with a whatever, you know, they're gonna like so I think that's but we don't we always like we don't want to let them down And I think that's part of being a content creator is at the courts. You're serving an audience I want to help them. I want to show them this cool tool or whatever and so we don't want to let them down, but You know if we went back to the old Flight instructor, right? You have to put the air mask on the child first before putting on you You got to take care of you or no, is that backwards you put it on you before putting yeah, yeah Yeah, I got that backwards. Yeah, if you pass out you can't put the mask. Yeah, you can't put on the kid Also, Dave's grandma's a cat. She has nine lives. That's amazing. Yes. Yeah, I've gone She's amazing. Yes. Did I ask oh so Sevilla in the in the chat Former roundtabler if you're in the chat your roundtabler, so I don't know why I say that but She says route. Wow really needed to hear this topic tonight. I'm going to one episode a month starting in March And I was feeling like such a loser. I'm totally worried about the algorithm. I'm about to find out Well, and then this is where Bandra is What are your options cut back your schedule, right or cut back the length of your show now Bandra That's what's he gonna do. Have we have a review? That's not gonna work. It doesn't be amazing Yeah, here's the microphone. This is what it looks like. I'll tell you about the rest next week. See ya No, that's not gonna work. I could work I do that now Here's what it looks like part two is coming next Wednesday, too Don't do the actual review part. Just do the tests and then shut up. Oh, okay. You don't want the review part. Thanks Got it squeaky wheel. Did I ask what the difference between pressure and burnout is is there a difference feeling the feeling of pressure Or does the feeling of pressure lead to burnout? I guess I think pressure leads to burnout and the pressure comes from back Back to the question. I was trying to ask. Where's the pressure come from? I think it is It's both internal and external I think we have these expectations for where we want to be what we measure our success to be and then we have these tools that we use to get there in my instance or in my case, it's YouTube and YouTube has an algorithm that we have to please but we also have the audience and Something that I was surprised by something that kept me going when I was feeling burned out was fear of Disappointing the audience thinking that if I said I'm gonna take a step back and slow down I would get hate. I was I received some of the nicest comments that I've ever received It's amazing. How much your audience will support you if you're honest with them and just say, you know what? I still love doing this. I want to continue to do it But I need to slow down for a bit and get to a point where I feel Like I'm mentally able to continue to do it But but I think it's both internal and external because we got to appease the YouTube gods We need to make sure that we It's very easy to abuse your audience's trust And say, okay. Well, they they allowed me to take this one break I'm gonna take a break every single week or every single month When you get to that point then it becomes I think that is when you'll start to lose support from your audience if you start to abuse that give-and-take relationship that you have with them Is an interesting question because I tend to just stop doing things and then throw stuff down the feed when it's available I mean the podcast or studio. I mean the audience is great Uh, it's very irregular at this point and go ahead Dave. What is that done to your numbers? Nothing So if you want to test that that doesn't mean it applies to any anyone It it probably does mean I'm not I have not grown to the level that Who who wants I don't know. I don't do advertising like who cares like if you like the show you're subscribed you listen Cool, I've never understood the idea of unsubscribing to something you love Just because the person wasn't there regularly It's time shifted like if something shows up Ooh, cool now. I get it. I have my favorite podcast and if they're not there on Monday because that is the one I listen to religiously I'm pretty disappointed but um, you know interesting question. David. I don't see that it's done Anything dare I say it's helped because There's that one episode sits at the top longer and it just has more time to be consumed Don't even wrong. I don't think that's a good thing but but from a listener of your show When I see one I actually jump like I'll look in I'm like I go to my podcasting category and overcast and I'm like Oh, wow, there's a thing from ray right to the top of the list because You only put out stuff when you have something to say as opposed to well It's thursday and I promised one every thursday. So today I don't know but we'll think of something though. I'm not I'm done I'm ejecting already and so I I think that's why your numbers maybe haven't gone down as you put out really good stuff Maybe thank you and and yet I marvel at your ability to be there with the school pie I'll just always there and and it brings us since it's it's comforting. I'm like, oh, well, there's always a school podcast Like it'll be there like if I need to listen and it's good It doesn't feel phoned in I mean we do we're in the same niche and I and I and I'm like He just keeps coming up with stuff and it's fantastic and I have the time I'm like, yeah, I don't um, I don't want to cover news or something like that But you do a great job there. So, you know because of that I'm thinking As I stall looking for the thought that I had just inserting words and well just just appeal back the the the curtain It's thursday And I have no idea what my show is going to be about on monday So there would never be the thought of not doing the show, right? You're doing it because So why are you doing one? Uh, well, I this is where I will go back and god bless evernote for me I have a notebook called Episode ideas and I just haven't looked at it in a while because I haven't needed to because stuff kept popping up with Gear and interviews and cool stories, but now I'm kind of like And I'm just I'm going to go to everone go. Oh, yes There was this or let's talk about crutch words or let's talk about, you know Should I have my podcast on a separate website or and I just there's all sorts of ways for me to get answers I can spend a 10 minutes at core and find three ideas for definitely helps to jot down every idea You have when you have it I think that's definitely a way to do it to ease the stress of what the heck am I going to do because Every week is a typical content production schedule and it barrels down on you Fast, right really fast as soon as you push something out That next one is coming right behind and it's that's where it starts to feel Really like a lot of pressure and that what I was thinking about dave when you said that just one sec Is that with my I'm lucky in the case that I think I built the foundation right so the people who like the podcaster studio They stick around right, but you couldn't get away with that probably early on or could you and you just wouldn't build Very fast like what are your goals really? I think you have to know what why the heck you're doing this I do it for enjoyment, right and and when I as opposed to the youtube channel, which actually started making I would call decent money. It's not like I'm going to make a living on it Money changes that pressure Right because you think the the checks get smaller and you're like, well, wait, I want the the better checks As opposed to the podcast where more time more times than not I think it's easier to monetize on youtube than is a podcast and that's debatable obviously But money does change it. But anyways, I was just thinking that that We've each built a foundation that allows us to then You know, I'm going to take a break or I'm not as regular But you've built in an audience that enjoys your content the way you deliver it So there's something I think there's a difference there between a an established content creator and a new content creator But really What changes you don't build as fast? I mean, does it matter? You're not trying to please a sponsor Yeah, I I don't know if it really would matter if you're if you're just starting out I I do think that when you are starting out you should Be willing to make a few more sacrifices if you are committed to it Not if it's not if it's just for fun Not if it's just a hobby who cares if you want to take a break take a break if you don't care about the audience but if you want to Grow an audience if you want to grow your influence as dirty as that word makes me sound or feel Then I think you definitely need to sacrifice and really commit to grinding it out because no matter what platform you're on and Regardless of how cliche it sounds it is a tremendous grind Making content and growing an audience and developing trust with your audience. I think that is The most difficult thing growing that Respect between yourself and your audience so that they will actually trust what you're saying or want to hear what you're saying I think That brings up an interesting point of the if you care about your audience if you want to build trust with your audience like There's pressure in that Right when you're starting out You're like I'm really started a podcast because I wanted to speak into a microphone and just geek out on the thing I do but now I have an audience and people who rely on me like What is though? Let's let's unpack a little bit of the the I now have to Respect the audience that has shown up to geek out with me Like there's always this fear that you you're not respecting the audience if you don't show up that week So on the note of respecting my audience, I have a little bit of a different take because I do audio gear reviews and If I were to start to phone it in or start to put out misinformation or incorrect information That's a little different if you're just leading it's different. But yeah, but but I think it really does come down to Showing people that they can Trust you as a good source and as your audience does grow that does add pressure That's something that I have that may have contributed to burnout actually Because I have over the last year started to realize Oh crap The things that come out of my mouth have weight I need to think good long and hard about every single thing that I'm saying because I received an email from a company That I made a bad review about begging me to take down the review because it hurt their sales so much And I was like, I'm sorry, but no it was a bad microphone You did a really bad job on this thing But my words have weight to them and as your audience grows you have more responsibility That could lead to uh that added pressure Weight till they threaten to sue you That's even more fun That's no thanks. Yeah, I'm burned out and I'm going home. Yeah. Yeah At that point I'm now packing up I'm not even making money at this and you want to take all the money I make doing something else Yeah, I was like you're kidding me right now. We're not We're not I should have I should have called their bluff, but I changed my article So Hey, all right, so I didn't take it down. That was we've established. We're content creators. We're all burned out. Um Let's talk a little bit about dealing with it. Andrew. How have you dealt with this? new overwhelming feeling of I got too much on my plate it really has come back to Rediscovering the stuff that I enjoy so it it has been watching Way too many horror films if anybody were to look at my watch history or my dvd stack They would think i'm an insane person also Finding time to play more guitar because that's that's the first thing that I started doing just actually picking up the guitar and From your tweet ray Dang you I downloaded musician. Oh, yeah, dude. It's good. So I There's been times where my fingers have been about to bleed playing the bass and the guitar And it's just been so much fun Just so not brought to you by musician. It should be it should endorse the product and see I found it because of youtube app really really bad youtube ad there's a bass hanging right there on my wall because of Well, no, that's why I found musician, but um Yeah, you know We missed a really huge opportunity to have banjoo open the show with a guitar riff and so that is just wow I'm gonna bring you back Yeah, it'll have I'll have to be back because I can't play my electric guitar or I'll get evicted Yeah, completely different story if you followed tanjoo's channel, uh, you'll know all about that He throws boxes Empty boxes gear boxes and that does not please his neighbor apparently Yeah, the the boxes and the guitar amp. So I have a solution. I am very Once I get this solution, I'm not gonna spoil it, but oh my god. I am so excited I'm so excited and it will reinvigorate me. Wow. That's very cool Dave um Well for me I have told myself because I'm just from now. I'm going to to new york This coming Next weekend and I get home for one day and then go to florida So I've told myself I have it on my calendar already like decompress post pod fest because You know, I'm right now. I'm working like tonight. I want to submit my Speaker thing. That's the technical term for it at podcast movement I've been saying that for 21 days every day. It's like I got to submit that thing to podcast movement I got to get it in got to get in. Well, I got a week And I've got my topic. I just want to make some slides for them You know, nothing too crazy, but it's always like it's 11 30 and I'm like, all right, I'll do it tomorrow All right, I'll do it tomorrow. So I know somewhere between now and pod fest I'm just going to cram it all in and so I've told myself when you come back You know, we the the zig needs to zag now, okay I understand I'm going to put myself through the grinder a little bit And I'm going to I've just blocked off time and I've just told myself that is not to move Doesn't matter what's going on. That's not going to move because You just like bandery said I want to play the guitar. I'm with him I have one sitting in my living room Even if I get to play it for like four minutes for me That's like better than aspirin and it's just just to chill out and not think about podcasting And this this makes me sound like I hate podcasting. I love podcasting That's why I can stay up till two in the morning to do it It's just in the morning when your body wakes up and goes yeah, that wasn't a good idea And then you just you're you're running on adrenaline and after a while you run out of adrenaline It took me 40 years to realize wow, I have to get enough sleep That was ruining me like I finally And not only means getting in bed by midnight doesn't mean going to sleep But it's baby steps. It's baby steps, but it's helping I guess. Well, can we talk about one other thing? Nope, and I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna call this the gary v factor and I'm okay I I read gary v's books, but I get worried when I hear about the you know what just screw it Nobody needs to sleep you get out there and push it hard And if you want to do this forget about xbox, buddy You focus your eyes bleed is what he says I love that line actually because I do kind of buy into that not buying it But I I grind to my eyes bleed like work it out, but their age has pushed a different Well, and I just worry about that because people lose focus of family friends kids whatever And all in the pursuit of you know, all right, I got a thousand subscribers finally. It's like And that's it. Yeah, it's what what is what are you really doing? Like what are you doing? Like are you getting paid for this? Is it is it if you don't show up? Will you not get a paycheck? Most people? No, it's not the case. You're showing it for the audience. Sure, right? Okay, good. They'll be disappointed if I'm out there on Monday, but Will it end will they go away? Like you really have to to know Gotta put it in perspective of why you started Why you keep going and And like how do you how do you make it sustainable? Right? So bandrew, I mean one of your strategies was to you cut down your schedule, right? Yeah, yeah, just roll back the schedule be honest with the audience about why you're doing it It's not going to be permanent. I was gonna say is that a did you roll back permanently? Or is it you're going to ramp it back up like you feel so just as you heal You're going to then put yourself back in the same place. I'm not going to do it right away I'm allowing my time Myself time to relax and recuperate and then I need to come up with a way to make it more sustainable I need to find a workflow that will not make me Get to the same point of just exhaustion so It's not going to be tomorrow. It's not going to be next week It may not be next month that I ramp it back up, but eventually I will and that's because There's so much cool gear that I enjoy talking about and I think I have 30 things on my desk that I need to review Wow, and that would take me half a year With one video per week. So Now do you feel pressure when you see that stack? Only if it's stuff that I'm not excited about there That that's something that I struggle with when I have to review a lot of these mass produced chinese microphones That are just the same microphone rebranded. I just want to put my head through the dang wall But when it's a new blue microphone not the not the new yeti the new blue ember Or if it's the new pod mic whenever that comes out, I'm excited about that and I Legitimately have fire. I'm just like I got to get my hands on that and play with it and share how cool this thing is It's so much fun. So If it's a stack of stuff that I think is interesting No, there's no pressure or dread, but when it's a stack of garbage microphones that I know aren't going to be fun Are not going to be good then Absolutely All right, seven-year-old needs a snack. I took one last bite and sent it on with her cliff bar I mean we're we are living on energy bars the energy bar. That's like an old mountain biking term. We're living on Cliff bar not a sponsor Which may be a sign of burnout. I didn't I didn't even eat lunch today you guys So the good the upside is that one beer is like hey, I'm good, but um You know what that does what are the signs? You know personally for me I definitely feel burnout. I mean I think the year before Last was the year of no. I called it. It was trying to just say No to things. I mean I heard I was talking to my daughter, but I it turned you talking about like you know like Poorly made microphones or something and I get approached constantly like if you if you do gear reviews on youtube for any amount of time The worst manufacturers will reach out and say hey Pimp our stuff right and you're like no thanks. Yep, and I say no I've been I don't even respond to be honest with you. I just lost because of the trash But once in a while those opportunities are really good and it's like man. I don't have I don't have time to fit that in but I don't want to say no And that's a really tough one. I mean I have I heard you mention I have gear on my desk right now that technically needs to be reviewed I'm using it and I'll get there, but I think it was um Heather in the chat mentioned something one word that It has all come down to for me and that's priority prioritizing things and For me, I think I wrote that list somewhere, but for me really it's um It's work. I mean because a lot of us that that is the thing Going back to what kind of talked about in the beginning most people don't realize hey that person actually has a day job That's not how they make their living But they think well, you're not here this week You know, but that's how you make your living, you know, it's There's a lot of assumptions made on the internet um And that's the beauty of podcast is that you are able to communicate to your audience This is the thing I do on the side or you have more chance to speak to them in a real way and um But yeah, I mean for me it has to be it has to be work first Then it's you know family even myself and then it's maybe content because content is For me a hobby. Yes. Does it make money? Yes Do I consider that my income? No, that is like a side benefit of making content It's certainly not why I started making content. So You really have to prioritize and I may not have done it right all the time or sometimes I'm like I just don't show up for months Um, when I go quiet, you know, I've probably taken on something that I I consider something that I feel like I should do and I have to burn something Something has to get burned down and a lot of times that's You know, you don't see an instagram story for me from like a month. Um It's a priority. It's a priority type thing. A lot of it is like, what can I do? How much of it can I do and I want to produce regular content all the time? But you know for me It's been a like if you follow me on youtube twitter instagram You'll get something from me consistently. It just You don't know what platform it's going to be on so It's not the best model but again To myself I have to say this is this is what I do for fun This is what I do for fun. So it has to be fun Exactly Sorry, go ahead Dave go ahead Uh Yeah, that's something that that I have it took me a long time to realize and I've heard it on Better podcasting a lot. I know that's a friend of the show It it is this is your hobby if it's not fun. Why are you doing it? So make sure that it is fun and for me again, this is a hobby So if it's making me miserable, why would I do it if somebody is doing something that's making them miserable? And to fill in their free time. Why would you be doing that? You know, what's tough is because you do start that way and then it starts to make money And then things change Right again, you're like, well if I stop I'm used to getting that money Right sponsors aren't gonna come people aren't gonna ask me to review stuff. I'm gonna I'm going to drop behind everyone else So it does change because if you got in because you love it You probably create good content because you love it You probably show up regularly because you love it And that gets recognized by third parties and they say wow, we want this person talking about her stuff And so, you know, I mean probably all of us have had that bandre I'm sure you make money from the youtube channel. You have Dave. There's got to be money in it for you You have the school podcasting how does So it almost is like it evolves it starts as passion and almost inevitably if unless you're just like I refuse to take money because This is my hobby and cool. That's you've prioritized that but how does it change it? How does that how does that how does starting off from passion and then and then it turns into something more It doesn't have to be money. It could be number of followers Um, it could be recognition in the space or speaking at a conference if I drop off I'm not gonna be included in this year's podcast movement because I'm not relevant all those things like how does That evolution of becoming and let's just call it an influencer No one's throwing up. We're good. Okay How does that change? Oh wait, I almost vomited. Go ahead. I'll let you go bandre. Um, you know, I I I don't know. I don't know how to quantify how it actually does change things I know it does and it's going to be different for every person Yes, I make money with what I do, but do I personally see any of that money? No, I don't get to do anything fun with that because I made a terrible business business decision to buy everything that I review to remain as I guess keep as much a journalistic integrity as possible in most cases. So I made a bad decision To to go down that road. So I don't see much of it I think a way that it could very easily Start to affect people is they feel like they need to adopt this certain lifestyle That you see all over social media. You see these large creators these large influencers I know again vomiting everybody who's listening, but you see them on Yachts you see them going out to dinner every night going to bars doing all these crazy things And as you grow and as you make that money, you may think I need to do that too To fit into the crowd. Well, you don't you don't have to do that Be smart with your money if you have if you're starting to get paid Save some save some money for god's sake And and don't let it dictate everything that you're deciding to do With the endeavor because once you let the money start telling you you got to do this to make x dollars It'll backfire. Just look at youtube and add deals. There is always a drama because somebody advertised a shady company for a bag of $200,000 and that creator gets So much hate and it it could easily destroy somebody so It I don't know how but it can Long-winded way of saying that In the immortal words of Cindy Lauper money changes everything But for for me it's weird because it's about somehow trying to get this this Pie of life health hobby money marketing SEO That's the fun thing you you get in I want to talk into a microphone Wait, what keywords and wait no hunt and now I got to get my domain authority number up There's another stat I can track and obsess over and I can't yet balance when my weight goes up And then I will like all right. That's enough. I'm at my head right now I'm at my heaviest I ever get which is 225 which is my Crap and all right. So something's gonna give and I'm gonna change and I will focus on that for however and I'll get down to like 210 And then I'll like okay. Well, this is going good now This is good got this going and then you start doing this and I can't find the balance to where everything Where my weight goes down my podcasts go up the money goes up. It's always it's like whack-a-mole And that's when I figured out. I'll let you know There's this other thing called life where you don't have control over everything and it's And that then of course because you have no control leads to back to our main point stress and burnout I don't know if that makes any sense, but yeah, no the chat the chat's pretty good. It's a lot of fun in there Bang says a bag of two hundred thousand dollars buys a lot of ethics And the eldest bro apparently follows uh jason vong because he says don't get gas which is your acquisition syndrome which I definitely have a lot of gas and Sean says in in being fair to gary banner judge So watch the video clarifying my thoughts on hard work hustle and happiness. I think we're actually I'm I'm definitely a fan of gary, but but I mean With gary anything that he says enough that at some point you're gonna be like, yeah, but that thing So that's what you do when you put yourself out there. So um, but he's got good stuff. So that's probably a good video I haven't seen that one And then the other thing that I think we should maybe talk about there is another option I know I have uh, oh Chris ducker calls it superman syndrome Where we try to do everything ourselves And I have I think twice outsourced my audio editing And again, the sun came up the next day. Nobody complained about it on my show It's just because I can do it For for free of course because I'm not charging myself to edit my own stuff I do it and I could easily hand off a lot of that stuff to somebody else But then of course they want paid because well, they're doing their thing and they're checking their stats And I think some of this could be eliminated a little bit With if I outsourced more stuff And I mean I always say time is money, but time is probably sanity like having that extra time So if you do find yourself, you know, a lot of times we're talking about with podcasting and money is that Um, you know, you're not doing it to get rich But if you can get some money out of it might pay a hosting cost But maybe it pays for that person to edit your podcast, right and to save your ability to show up every week I think it's a decent strategy Right. I mean even like a patreon campaign that says hey, I want to be here every week But I really I need an editor like, you know, please contribute. I Perfectly valid. Well, Heather asked that question. She goes, how do you feel about asking for help? and one of the things I always say is you either pay for things with time or money and kind of my running gag is I'm a good teacher. That's my background. I'm a horrible marketer So this year I actually put out a fair amount of money as a business coach. You said, okay, that's horrible You need this you need that and he's my accountability partner And I'm already seeing things go better in that department But I'm not spending hours Researching all this stuff. They're like, no, here just do this. We've already done the research. This works And I'm doing that. So it's it's one of those things where I didn't feel It didn't make me feel bad. It was just like, okay I need to realize that I you know, this is what I'm good at making tutorials and things like that And I'm spending way too much time doing things that I'm going to be at best Let's find somebody who knows how to do this and just tell me what to do or let them do it And then you end up with better results. It's just it's it's hard for me To let go of anything Especially if I can do it Even if it's poorly if I can somehow do it, I still like, oh, well, I'll get better if I do more of it Well, okay, but you know, you don't become Tom Brady overnight and being a SEO guru or a Web designer that's not going to happen overnight But if I just, you know, put in my thousand hours or 10,000 hours however many hours Malcolm Gladwell wants us to get You know, so that's that's something and that's new for me this year I I normally don't outsource anything. I've already started doing a couple and that was kind of my thing at the beginning of the year I'm like, I'm going to Not say no to partnerships or I'm just kind of like what's the worst that could happen here Is kind of my motto for this year because it's just An NA a long In the long game This isn't going to sustain because well, I'm getting older. So I can't keep up this pace till I'm 70 I will still be podcasting when I'm 70 but not at this pace. So Um, so that's just something I'm looking at. So I I didn't It wasn't hard for me. I guess at this point to to reach out because I just realized I'm being stupid That that's something that I've I've come to realize about myself as well There's certain things that I am terrible at if I try to make artwork It will end up looking like a kindergarten art project So when it comes to creating actual logos or podcast art, I will hire somebody and pay them Pretty good money to get something that I'm actually happy with and I won't hate a week later So in that regard 100 I am happy with Handing it over the reins and letting somebody who's better suited to do it as far as editing and all of that My workflow wouldn't allow for it Yeah, because the time to send something to somebody and then have them edit it and send it back I wouldn't be able to schedule it for release the next day because I'm recording it the day before Like a terrible person Well, that's me my my show I do certain things that only I you know by the time I took all the time to write Here's what I want you to do with it. I could just do it. So I'm like, yeah, but but if it's something like The podcast review show I just said here take this and de-ummit. I'll do the rest I just don't want to have to listen to this again because it's 90 minutes long And so I did that and I was like, oh, that was a really good idea. I need to do more of that Write my show notes and suddenly I'm podcasting every week There's an there's an area where I can funnel some of that money too. Well, so as we wrap up here You know, what do we want to say to someone who's feeling burnt out? They've they've hit this point uh words of wisdom Strategies anything like that anything at all, uh, I from for me Oh, hold on for me. I would just say you got to give yourself a break like you're either You either burnout and just go away Or you're there once in a while to still entertain the people who already enjoyed getting stuff from you I'd rather not see the person go away. I mean, that's really a bottom line for me and You know, I'm not paying these people most time in for anything. So Hopefully they're happy doing it. So, you know That's tough because I'm a content creator. So I understand the other side Most people are are not creators if you're watching this you're a creator almost certainly Um, we have a different perspective, but I think even as a creator You just have to learn how to give yourself a break and really put in perspective like what are you trying to get out of this thing? and You know that will help drive how much How much you have to like sort of grind and put in the work I mean if you are trying to make a living at it then that requires this x amount of work It's a different story, but I think most people get in for the love. So give yourself a break Dave I have a question for you then because remember how you said you you did this one thing and you Lost subscribers Yes, and you made a change, right? You moved the the one I think you moved those around. Yeah Yeah, so since you've done that do you now have more subscribers than you did when you had them combined? Can't tell because of the way the channels work. Um, but it's but it's growing, right? It's growing. Yes. So so eventually you will bypass that so I just say that to say There are going to be times when you do something and it doesn't Right, you know and you like okay, but two steps back right and you adjust and then you start moving forward And eventually you'll be further than you were when you made the boo boo. So People used to complain to me that they couldn't go to college when I was working a job I hated and I was in college one class one night a week for three hours You'll be further down the road in three years Then if you're just that person complaining that they can't do it so Even if you have to do it just a little bit To then work with your own sanity You will be further than just sitting there saying I can't do it. Um, I'm not I'm not sure if I want to do it Again, give yourself a break back off. All right as if you're creating you're creating create to to you know Create for pleasure and then you know let the rest Happen. Yeah, I want a second boundaries thing and then we'll let him wrap up I just love the fact he said why would you do something that makes you miserable? And that's so kind of like But there are a lot of people they're like no if I just push harder and farther This is going to be fun eventually and I'm like no, it's it's probably not if you hate it The problem is though I think you start and it is fun and then it becomes miserable and you don't want to stop like how many of us have Podcasts where we said I'll probably put one more. I'll probably get back to that. It's just sitting there. You didn't even end it officially guilty yeah, because It's just you can't let go. So there's where the problem lies as you start It is fun. It's great to do the first three episodes. It's great to publish your first episode You're like, yeah podcasting. This is freaking awesome. I love building this thing I got to show up next week burnt out SP in the chat room says, why would you do something that makes you miserable? He says it's called marriage guys That's a little inside to sp but yeah, I get the joke You get the joke, but um being married myself If you're watching this no, right never a case. So as they ever word words of wisdom from the bandrew I would say Once you set your a schedule that is manageable for you Don't start comparing yourself to other creators that will lead you down a deep Dark path that you do not want to go down. So don't do it That also don't be afraid to be honest with your audience I I was scared of doing that for A year Then finally I was like, hey, I'm burned out and they understood and they were supportive And they said go ahead and take a break take as much time as you need We'll be here when you get back. So Don't compare yourself do what have a schedule that works for you and then if you do get to a point where you Need a break or need some help be honest be honest about it because Keeping it all buried deep inside is Like I said, it's a deep dark path. You don't want to go down and do as I say not as I do because I don't follow my own advice Yeah, that's the hardest part is that we sometimes know the answers But we don't do it right And Heather in the chat says don't isolate yourself have a support network of some sort That could be anything Right, that could be anyone My my discord server is a tremendous support network for me Went a few years ago before I started I felt very isolated and then I started that and I was like, oh my god There's so many people to hang out with and I have some amazing friends there that I did hang out with every single evening Pretty much just chat with them. So when I was at Podcast movement, I think it was and there were a bunch of us that we're all we all work from home And we were talking about how we never actually get to have An actual conversation with human beings like I will go to get groceries and want to talk Philosophy with the checker outer girl I just can't take it And we all said well, this is dumb We're all in the same boat and we exchange phone numbers and every now and then we will just get on the phone You know these really long conversations because you haven't talked to an actual human being in a week and a half It is dangerous if I call any of you on skype. I'm going to record it because It's going to be an episode. I need the content you guys. I can't exchange healing time for content time. They're the same thing They're the same thing All right, I'm trying to get banjo on that that wagon I'm gonna have them on overheard the patron only podcast. Anyways, all right. All right, you guys. This is a great place to exit Uh trains going off the tracks Dave Thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, thanks for having me. This was actually really cool You can find me over at school of podcasting.com Yeah, hopefully this is a little bit It's a little therapeutic for anyone who's listening saying i'm not alone. We've all felt it We're all dealing with burnout. I think it's extremely common You always think the person on the other side of the camera microphone is just not what you're Experient, you know going through the same thing We are a content creators. These things come up. Um, so don't feel alone reach out If you need support Anyone of us would hit you in a dm email, whatever so definitely do that banjui Thanks for joining us on your first and it can't be your last it has many to know Now that i'm on a break from or i've slowed down my production schedule. My thursday evenings are open I'm really helping you take a break by saying yeah now You created free time for yourself. Get on my show. Yeah But thank you very much for having me up and listening for Year years. I don't even know anymore. Go. It's so much fun But If anybody wants to check out what I do you can listen to my podcast at bandrew says.com Both audio and video there or you can check out my reviews youtube.com Slash podcastage very cool. Kenny in the chat says listening to you guys makes me feel normal I'm not sure what that says about us, but but i am glad You are one of us and uh podcast was roundtable.com slash guest if you want to be on a round table Um, we will get you on that is the way to go and 127 next time. So yeah, see you later wave. Goodbye