 We are negotiating future contracts in line with our current thinking about issues like discipline and transparency regarding personnel decisions. And I think the city attorney taking this step will start the process of figuring out where we want to be as a city government when that contract comes up. Third, I am requesting that the police commission approve a new body camera footage release policy by the end of October. And I am sending a letter today to the commission that gives them principles from which to finalize that policy. This is an issue that really we have heard from the protesters in Battery Park and they are right that it is a problem. We don't have a formal policy around this release at this point. This is something we know needs to be addressed for some time. It was assigned to a different committee in 2019 for work and was eclipsed by other events and other priorities in that committee work. It's time to get this done. We need a new policy by the end of October. We're laying some principles out about that policy for the police commission which is the body that signs off on policies for policing to consider. And that letter and those principles will be released today as part of this announcement. Fourth, by the end of October there has been some, this isn't a brand new announcement but I am committing that by the end of October we're going to bring forth in a formal way this idea of having at least two community service liaisons working in the Burlington Police Department. People with, not with traditional policing backgrounds but with backgrounds in social work so we can add to the capacity of the city and responding to a whole variety of events that today, a whole variety of issues that today fall to the police and sworn officers to respond to. Whether it's following up on people we come in contact with who are suffering from opioid use disorder or it is people responding to acute mental health calls or engaging with members of the community who are experiencing various challenges in a way that we can benefit from having a social worker there. We will now have this capacity if the council agrees and we've had some preliminary discussions but I'm hopeful the council will agree this is an important additional capacity to add. And fifth, I, and this is in response to a recent public records request. I am requesting that the police commission develop a new policy regarding the release of investigations into officer conduct. We have had a long standing policy goes back well before I came into this office of protecting police investigations, investigations of police actions from public release. It is, there are valid reasons why that has been the policy in the past but we're at a new moment. We need to be balancing these, the privacy concerns and the concerns about ensuring that officers can continue to do their job with the current thinking on transparency and accountability for officers. So I have asked, I am asking the police commission for their help in deciding where the line should be drawn in weighing and balancing these different interests. So, you know, some of what I just listed for you again, if you've been, people have been listening carefully to the demonstrators in Battery Park. You know that this includes, you know that they spoke specifically, I have spoken specifically about body camera policy. What I've announced here today and the creation of this new position, I see as responding to not only the specific calls for change, but also the broader call to ensure that we are doing everything we can to root systemic racism out of all of our institutions, including policing, that we are doing all that we can to ensure that the way we conduct policing is in line with what the community wants it to be. And this is a call, again, that I've heard not just in the last month and not even in just the last couple of years. As long as I've been in this office, I have had the sense that as much as this community appreciates and values the work of the men and women of the Burlington Police Department, we now in the 21st century in 2020 are looking for changes as well. As we figure this out, as we try to rethink and re-envision what we want policing to be here in Burlington, one final really important message that I want to share today is that we, I think it's critical that as we do that work as a community that we see police officers themselves as partners, in this work. This is in part a practical concern in that I think if you look at the history of police reform efforts, it is pretty clear that little long-term change in policing culture and practice is possible without the buy-in and the support of police officers. On another level, I also think it's the right thing to do in this sense. We are fortunate to have dozens of men and women who on a daily basis go out and do a very challenging job to keep this community safe and to respond to violent situations and work very hard to solve crimes and they are doing this work even as their profession and even the very kind of definition of public safety is rapidly changing. And as we do this work, from my perspective, none of our officers deserve to have their names on wanted posters or to have to console their children when they're taunted for being the child of a police officer. We have to find a way I think if we're going to succeed at this to support, value and engage our sworn officers and include them in the forging of this new consensus of what public safety means and if we do that the work itself will be better and have a far more enduring result. The last two years have been a very challenging time for policing in Burlington and it is my hope that with our actions of earlier this week and today as well as actions that we've done with the council in recent months we can begin to move forward and make progress on the work ahead. I look forward to working alongside Kyle Dodson, Chief Murad and the entire Burlington community to get this work done. Thank you. So now I would like to invite Kyle to share some remarks and as I do so I want to acknowledge and thank his father and for being with us today and for raising an outstanding community leader. And Kyle, thank you. Thank you for taking on this challenge that you certainly didn't need to take on and for being here today and helping the community through this moment of challenge and promise. All right. Good afternoon everyone. It's great to see everybody. Per this challenge that the mayor spoke of. I take it on willingly but I did appreciate that upon running into a friend and ally in the work from the community. His first comment he's here in this crowd. He said, now I know you're crazy. He said taking on the Y job when we had a uphill battle. A lot of money to raise was a tough challenge but he looked me in the eye and said now I know you're crazy and all I can say that was a pretty appropriate comment. The next thing I want to do this morning I've got a colleague here, my good friend and partner in crime, Rick Blount. Rick Blount is the VP of development at the Y and he was front and center and led really the work that we did with so many community members to support the building. What we believe is a pretty incredible facility and we've gotten pretty good affirmation of that. So we appreciate that. But the point is this morning we were on a call with a house committee at our state house about a new initiative called masks for missions about getting more masks out there. Obviously there's masks out there but this was a different angle connected with the nonprofit community. I got to talking about masks and the fact that I like this idea because I have a lot of masks because sometimes I like to attend to my particular clothing on a day. And those are hospital grade masks just don't work for me so I like having some fun masks and this morning I was going to wear one that I recently received in a gift from the Brownton Rotary Club of lots of masks to the Y that had an American flag on it. And I thought I wanted it to be a statement. I was thinking in light of Colin Kaepernick and other ways we see the flag used. This connects directly for me to Murrow's comments about my dad. It is completely due to my mother and father Charles Dotson who's right there and Joyce Dotson who passed several years back that I'm here today that to agree that I offer anything of value to the community. It was because of the way they raised me and my dad's a Marine and you know he worked hard all his life and paid taxes and I feel he very much earned the right of being American and flying the flag. And I hope some part of this job allows me to close the gap between what I think of as a flag what it means to me and my family and when I think about my dad and sometimes the way people use the flag in ways that perplex me. And strikes me that we are saying something different when we fly the flag and I'm hoping we can close that gap in this work. So big shout out to my family. Murrow didn't point out to my dad's here but also my son is here. My youngest son. That's Julius Dotson standing next to him. And Julius is a freshman at Howard University. It seems appropriate at this moment and the top we're talking about that a biracial young man from Vermont who loves his community grew up here. But he went to arguably the most prominent of our historically black colleges and that he developed the sensibility and the courage and confidence to make that move right here in this town right here playing soccer on this field playing baseball. Something that looked like baseball right on this field here. And it makes me so proud and gratified to have three generations of Dotson men here in Burlington the place I've chosen to make home. I came here been working in the city since 95. Julius is and my other two sons Manny and Isaac and their mom and I chose to raise our boys here very purposefully. And we could not be more gratified with how they've turned out and how this community helped to raise them up properly. So I want to say that I want to say some thanks. I want to thank my whole wife family. I want to thank the board. It was a big deal. This COVID time and just generally the why has no shortage of uphill battle ourselves. We're embroiled in the work and it's tough work. And as you can well imagine I'm at the you know I'm at the head but with a team very much team approach of that work. And so it was no easy decision I don't think but it's a testament to the board that they made it easily. They made a not easy decision easily. The board was immediate a sense that we had to do this. This is a we I see this as something I'm doing in collaboration with my board colleagues Lisa Ventress our board chair also executive director of Vermont Business Roundtable. And today very graciously representing our board is Katie Hawley someone who I'm very close with and really appreciate her stepping up this way and how the why agrees that this is consistent with our values of social responsibility and honesty caring respect responsibility so we're really pleased that we're able to do this. I want to thank my staff Rick here representing that I have a management team I work with. This is challenging for them we work closely there's six of us were attached at the hip but I really trust that they and the board are going to step up to provide the leadership that the why needs and to continue to help us. Thus far I would argue we've navigated successfully I trust we will continue to do so during trying times and I think this is going to hopefully help this community appreciate how all in the why is and how important we think this particular work is. Just quick comments we don't have time at all to talk about the quite frankly horrible history and legacy of racism in this country. It's a thing I think that one of the challenges is that we don't often talk about in ways that I think are important to and that racism for me really exists in its most pernicious forms in the collective. Right it's the fact that their systems of power and privilege that do the worst to oppress people. It does play out through individuals and sometimes through hateful acts but the things that really are difficult for BIPOC folks or what happens at the institutional collective level. What happens to us when we want to buy a home what happens to us when we want to educate our children properly what happens to us when we want to get a job. What happens to us when in places we encounter law enforcement. That's where it plays out in its most difficult ways and that's the collective but the collective is made up of individuals and it's individuals who don't actively fight against this history and continuing systems and infection in the warp and wolf of our community that allows it to continue. I mean so you know it's somewhat cliched but it's true. If you're not for us you're against us. You've got to be actively fighting to uproot what we've inherited historically or else you are by default complicit and that's part of what we're doing. It's hard it's hard for an individual I was talking I'm having a lot of conversations. When you get up in the morning and you go to work just to make some money and you're struggling to make enough money to put food on the table and pay your rent. It's really hard to have someone look at you and say you're a racist you're the problem. I'd get that and that's that individual versus collective. And each individual really has got to look in the mirror and hopefully try to calibrate their activities with some sort of responsiveness. So you look in the mirror but you also look to the community. So if you say to yourself hey I'm not a racist but you know you're sitting at the country club with a bunch of white folks who have power and privilege that may not be the best checks and balances. You come here to Roosevelt Park you go to Boys and Girls Club you talk to young people BIPOC folks live in the community and you ask them what's happening for them. You might get a different perspective on your role and how you might be complicit and hopefully you work to jive if there's dissonance which I would argue there will be in that conversation. Hopefully then your conscience tells you I got to work to close that gap because I love this young person. This young person is our future and they just told me something that was very disturbing. It's not the kind of information or perspective I get when I'm at the board table or when I'm in some of my other areas. But when I come here I see the pain I see the struggle and I'm touched by that and hopefully I'm moved and compelled to start doing once again the proactive work to deal against that. And all that is to say is I see this move this very bold I believe move by our mayor to help us move that down the line. I hope I have something that I can offer in that work. There's going to be a lot of questions from this and I don't mean to be in any way dismissive but as always the devil's in the details and we're working those out. This is a time where it's often required that you move fast and any of you who have held leadership positions you might share my opinion that that's some of what leaders do. Sometimes you push with stakeholders, sometimes you pull people along but it's our responsibility I think to look down the road see what's happening. Move boldly and quickly there and do the appropriate work of filling the gaps and doing the due diligence. But there is a time sometimes to act and act before you necessarily have all the ducks in a row not because you want to but because circumstances require that. Last I want to end with a request. This is outreach outreach to all of you here outreach to anyone who is able to see his press conference outreach to people who. Gain a wind of what we're trying to do here to come out and support to link arms and help us really realize the potential of our community to potential is unbelievable. We like to think of our plate ourselves as a place apart in Burlington and I do think there's something special about us but we exist in context and we have to be respectful acknowledging in that context. We don't get I don't believe to say that's true except for us that may happen over there but it's not true in our little progressive Hamlet my opinion is that's just not how it works. So I'm asking people to join in engage. I'm not asking you necessarily to come to the table and say Kyle Maro you know John you have it right come to the table disagree respectfully disagree. Myself and Chief Murad have been respectfully involved in some dialogue over the last couple of days it wasn't easy but it was respectful and appreciative. And I would argue it actually strengthened our connection rather than severed and we did not necessarily see out I and all those conversations. But I think we both approach it in a way that I know already that Chief Murad sees it as a pretty serious response going to his part to model how you engage. He's got two children he's got a son they talks really glowingly about and I feel his sense of obligation to be living in a way that he can look his son in the eye and say this is how you conduct yourself. This is how you move through difficult experiences. This is how you show respect to people that you're engaged with even when there's space between you and that person as a way you comport yourself. And I've already seen that and I that gives me such optimism about the work that we're going to be able to do together. I had interesting experience just to say the the why you know from someone within actually there's a white woman who works in our early childcare and she's an activist. She's an ally. She's a really impressive woman and she's been doing the work herself and it was her who actually reached out to me in the leadership team and said Kyle. This George Floyd moment. I think the why's got to be out there. You got to say something and I've been struggling myself. What was appropriate? What could we add? You know it wasn't at all that I didn't want to but I was just trying to figure out how we did it. And after I got that email I knew it was time to act and so we put something together. The community responded overwhelmingly positively. It's been wonderful and incoming here. I've got a counselor, one of our very generous donors, but more importantly a mentor and a coach for me. And I wanted to just give the person a heads up and the person jumped right into strategy. And what they they said that they believe that I had heretofore been able to establish myself as a trusted broker in this community. And they were concerned about that position. What what what trying to wade into this challenging time would do to that position. Talked about getting squeezed in the middle. And those are real risks, but you got to make a call sometimes. I trust Moreau. I trust what he's trying to do. I trust Chief Murad. I trust this community. So I'm going to go in there and give it the best of my ability. I'm going to be transparent. I'm going to tell people how I'm feeling. I'm going to try to proceed according to a set of principles that's probably going to make it hard for me at times. Maybe hard for people I'm talking with, but I hope we can all live up to that and take the risks that this friend and mentor I talked to this morning presented. But importantly, and it wasn't clear. I didn't know you don't want to talk to him upon closing. The person said good luck here for you. And that was important to hear and pretty much everyone I've talked to said the same thing. So if you're listening out there, some people you're going to be getting a call. I'm going to say like remember when I wrote the statement before we were here and you said you'd help. Here I am. The stakes are a little higher. At that point helping was, importantly, writing a check for the Y. But the help I'm going to be asking for now is of a different nature. But I trust that many of these folks who I've developed friendships and relationships over time with are going to step up to the plate. This is our moment. This is the nation's moment. And I'm so gratified to be part of it. Thank you all. Thank you, Kyle. I just want to invite Chief Murad here to the podium in a second. And in doing so, I want to acknowledge the remarkably challenging circumstances he has been almost from the moment in which he became a deputy chief. He joined us and has been thrust several times, even as he was acclimating to this new role and having come back to Vermont to take on more and more responsibility. I'm very aware that in creating this additional position, yet again, I am pressing another challenge towards Chief Murad as well as the whole department. I have great confidence, full confidence that he is up to this challenge like he has been up to the ones prior. And just as I feel grateful to have Kyle Dodson willing to stand up and do the work that needs to be done in this moment, I feel exactly the same way regarding Chief Murad and very thankful that he has chosen to make Burlington his home and the place where he's doing his life's work. So Chief Murad, thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. Hello everybody. So I became a cop for the purpose of keeping people safe and the men and women who I am honored to lead did the same. And cops don't just want to have our neighbors approval and our neighbors help. We can't exist without those things. Right now, there are parts of our community that are saying that they won't. They can't provide that approval and that help. And our officers, your officers, keep doing their jobs regardless. They are out there doing them well. I am amazed daily and proud daily that they are doing it even as they face the stress of demissioning headcount, the stress of no slacking of the calls for service and not yet having the alternatives to their presence that we are working to develop with, for example, those community service liaisons. Our city is very lucky to have the police department that we have, this police department of this caliber. But the historic role of the police has not always been good, particularly for people of color and for marginalized people. Racism has outlasted its more severe versions. It's outlasted slavery and Jim Crow and redlining and blockbusting and publicly permissible prejudice. But inequality abides. There is an abiding inequality in our healthcare and housing, abiding inequality in education and affluence, abiding inequality in public safety and criminal justice. And our officers have inherited these things too. They see it in call after call, they face conditions and behaviors that stem from it, and all of us want to change that. But as a great leader of people once said, change doesn't roll in on the wheels of inevitability. There are a lot of us pulling for change right now. The mayor, the city council, the police commission, protesters, advocates, I know that I am. But we are still coalescing around what that change should be. How can we transform public safety while continuing to keep people safe? Because that's the bottom line. It's the bottom line for me, for the men and women with whom I work, for our communities too, keeping people safe. And I am incredibly eager to see what Director Dodson can do to help get all of these stakeholders I mentioned to pull in the same direction and to pull together. Having Director Dodson on board at One North Avenue to gain an understanding of what police do and to share it with those stakeholders is a path forward. Having Director Dodson inculcate a deeper understanding at One North Avenue of the abiding inequalities of which I spoke is a path forward. The transformation of safety and fairness, it can lead the way for our state, it can lead the way for our profession, it can lead the way for the country if we do it right. And this city has done it before. It has done it right before on a number of markers. It's a road that we have to walk and it's a road that we have to walk together. And this appointment by the mayor, Director Dodson's coming to One North Avenue, being able to coalesce those groups is the way we walk that road together. Thank you. Thank you, Chief. Finally, I spoke to her role and pinch hitting role before Katie. Welcome. Thank you for joining us for this one. It's good to be here. Good afternoon. My name is Katie Hawley and I am proud to serve as vice chair of the Greater Burlington YMCA. For more than 150 years, the Y has stepped up when the Burlington community has needed us. This is what we do with the Y. In our daily work, the Y staff takes on some of society's biggest challenges. Supporting families in need of high quality childcare, supporting individuals in the journey towards better health, and supporting the community by building connections based on our core values at the Y of caring, honesty, respect, and responsibility. Earlier this summer, the Y proudly joined the mayor in public and acknowledging racism as a public health emergency. We deepened our commitment to fight racism and work towards a more inclusive and equitable world. Therefore, it was only natural when Kyle expressed his desire to take a temporary leave of absence, and we will hold him to it being a temporary leave of absence. It was only natural that when Kyle expressed the interest to serve Burlington community in this new role, it was an easy decision for the board to support him in doing so. We are optimistic about the mayor's concept. We believe it has the strong potential to accelerate the Y's important work of serving our community immediately and over the long term. Our board and myself as an individual have enormous trust in Kyle. He's a talented, relationship-based leader who never shies away from a conversation that could lead to a positive change. Our board also has a strong belief in the rest of the leadership team at the Y. They are committed to the Y's mission of strengthening our community and being a place where all can belong. We know the Y is in good hands with the leadership team as Kyle takes this leave of absence. On behalf of the board, I will close by saying congratulations to Director Dodson, Mayor Weinberger, and Chief Murad. And I extend my deep appreciation and gratitude to the Y leadership team, as well as all Y staff who are stepping up in new ways to allow Kyle the space, time, and flexibility to serve Burlington in this new role. We believe this has the potential to benefit not just the Y, but all of Burlington. Thank you. Okay. Well, thank you all. I know we've been talking for some time. We'd be happy to try to take some questions, if there are any. Mayor Weinberger, um, quick, quick, please. So, um, thank you for the question. Um, myself and the City Council, um, and I did want to thank and acknowledge that we may have lost them, but Councillors Sarah Carpenter and Brian Pine were here earlier. Um, you know, we took an action on Monday regarding Sergeant Bellavance. I've made clear where I stand with respect to the other two officers. Um, I guess my hope is that the people protesting in Battery Park, as well as the clearly large numbers of other Burlingtonians who are very concerned about racial justice, who are very concerned about changing society in this, in this moment where systemic racism has been laid bare by the combination of coronavirus and the events within policing around the country this summer. I hope that that very large number of Burlingtonians who I believe care a great deal about these issues see in the combination, the totality of our actions with, uh, earlier this week at the City Council, um, with these announcements today, um, and with the other, uh, work that we have committed ourselves to as a city, um, uh, in recent weeks and months, uh, that, that people will see a city that is very committed to trying to make good on the promise and the opportunity this moment. And, uh, that's, um, uh, you know, again, the clearly, um, we have taken specific steps that do address some things being demanded by the protesters, body cam footage or, uh, the, the action with Sergeant Belivance. Um, I think what has made these protests so compelling, uh, to many Burlingtonians is, are the larger issues of racial justice. Um, it is there that I see, um, real opportunity for common ground. I think many, many of us are working very hard to make progress in that direction. And, uh, you know, I would welcome, uh, demonstrators into, into that work to the, rolling up the sleeves and doing the hard work that's going to be necessary in the, uh, weeks and months ahead, years ahead to make good on, uh, what we've been speaking about here, uh, this morning, to make good on this idea that this is a moment for progress for, for racial justice. And I, I hope they join us in that. Mayor, um, you already have a director of racial equality in City Hall and nothing against Mr. Dodson. Wouldn't police transformation be a part of what she would be working on already? So why do you need another position? Uh, thank you, Pat. Yeah, fair question. We have created this new department, um, within the last year. Uh, the steps towards this began the summer of 2019, um, before, um, uh, you know, before all that has happened in 2020, um, Taisha Green joined us. Uh, her first day was the day I delivered the state of the city, uh, just as in the beginning of April as the pandemic was beginning. Um, we've given Taisha a, a, a big job. Um, the, the work of dismantling systemic racism is, uh, is, is, is, is massive. And, um, she, uh, is fully engaged, um, already in, um, uh, the creation of a new, uh, strategic plan for how we will pursue racial equity, inclusion and belonging in the city. She, she is, uh, heading up efforts amidst the pandemic to, um, communicate, uh, and get help out to our BIPOC communities, um, that are being disproportionately, you know, fortunately cause we're here in Vermont and we're here in Burlington and because, uh, we've all come together to do so well with suppressing the virus, uh, the impacts on BIPOC communities have been less here than just about anywhere else, I believe. But still, if you looked at the new report out from, uh, the Department of Health last week, uh, black, black Vermonters are getting infected at, at basically 10 times the rate that, that, uh, the white, whites are. So what I'm saying is to avoid that down pat is she's got a big job. Her job was primarily directed in these other areas and I think we need additional capacity to do the work that needs to be done in policing. I think Kyle is the person and, and the leader, uh, with long credibility in, in years of sort of built up equity as an honest broker, as he mentioned to do that work, uh, certainly Taisha will be involved in it. Um, I think Kyle is the person, Kyle is the person to lead it. Um, also when you were announcing the additional actions. Yes. One of them was to expand, uh, the, um, uh, or change the charter so that the Mayor's office would have more of a role in disciplinary actions. That's not what I was actually talking about today, the changing the charter. The, the, the, the consideration of changing the charter, and I'm sorry if I was unclear on this before and hopefully it is clear in the press materials that the, the changing that the consideration of changing the charter is something in the city council's hands. They're working on it. They're considering it. I have said since last January that, um, I think they should look at, uh, uh, getting rid of this section that is unlike anything else in the charter that really kind of prohibits, uh, kind of bars the, the, the Mayor from involvement, uh, in, in disciplinary decisions and some other policing matters. Um, uh, so I have suggested that there should be a charter change. What I, my executive order though is not waiting for a charter change. It is a change that is now in effect today with the issuance of this order that says for any, uh, major disciplinary decision going forward that police chief has a responsibility to fully brief, um, uh, the mayor and get a recommendation from the mayor before making a decision. So I'm not sure that was even your question, but I want to make that clarification. In any case, what, what will the role of the city council be, uh, in, you know, if, if you are involved in those disciplinary decisions. Yeah. What's the role of the city council going to be? You know, typically speaking, the council has a very limited role in, in, in employee disciplinary decisions. They may look to change that with respect to the police and this work that's going on. Uh, that, that is not historically, uh, been a role for, for, for our council or generally, I think of city councils. Uh, you know, you look the whole concept of our council mayor form of government to some degree makes, uh, you know, gives that the mayor as the chief executive officer, um, uh, that, uh, that responsibility for management and disciplinary decisions. So perhaps that's going to change with this work going on. We'll have to just have to see. Yeah. Yeah. Is it mandatory that the mayor make a recommendation or optional and, and in either case, um, are those recommendations going to be public record? Um, so the way I've written the executive order, it basically indicates the mayor will issue a recommendation before, before the discipline is taken. So it's, it's certainly something that I see as responsibility and that will happen going forward. Um, I, the, you know, the question of, um, it being public is a, frankly, Derek, it's a fair one. And, um, I, uh, probably, you know, doesn't explicitly state, speak to that in the executive order. I probably shouldn't think about it a little bit more before definitively saying that, but I think, I hope you've seen in, in, in, in the way I've been talking about this morning, as well as the specific, uh, commitment to review and try to make more transparent what we do with our investigations. Um, uh, we're trying to move in the direction of, uh, greater transparency, uh, around, uh, around these actions. And, um, I would think, uh, um, you know, I would think most mayors would want to make their, their, their position clear in some way, but there's probably some details to that that, you know, frankly, it's, we're moving quick here and we're figuring out new things and that exactly that answer I don't have for you yet, but I, I will get back to you quickly on that. If you release body camera footage of these sensitive incidents, presumably you're also making recommendations on those same incidents. So why is, uh, why is this a question of whether or not your opinion would be released or your, your recommendations? Right. You know, again, Liam, I think it's a fair question. I just want to think about it a little bit further. And then this is, uh, this is, this is something new. And, and I just, I want to think about what would the impact be then of, uh, if the mayor were to make a recommendation, uh, that was ran counter to what the police chief chose to do. Um, I just need to think about it a little bit further. I probably couldn't circle back up even give you an answer on that today, but I, I, you guys know me. I like to be a little, you know, a little bit deliberative and thoughtful before, uh, uh, making significant and this is a wrinkle of it that I hadn't completely thought through. What's the weight of your recommendation? I mean, if you, you know, if you're just making a recommendation, it goes to kind of what the chief says, like what weight does it actually carry? Um, so, you know, again, um, under the charter, um, this is, uh, this is the limit, I think, of what, uh, the mayor can do consistent with, with the charter. And, um, uh, we're writing an executive order consistent with what the law that is in place today. Um, I, I think, uh, it would bear upon, uh, any chief, uh, and it does bear. And it's not like these, these decisions have never been brought to that. And I don't want to suggest that I was never involved in past disciplinary decisions or, uh, but what this does is it formalizes that process. It formalizes it in structures and ensures that, um, that the proper, uh, deliberation and effort and review goes in to the, the mayor making a recommendation. I think it will, it will, uh, even more so than in the past, uh, with having a formal process around it, uh, I think it will have an impact on, um, what, uh, the chiefs, future chiefs decide to do with disciplinary decisions. I have one other question. Sure, Derek. There's a little bit about the days of new qualities, everything that's going on this year and that, and that last year there were similar demands to fire these people in response to that. The city set up a, a council committee that, that similar to now, you know, youth police as a partner in that process and, and the outcome of that process was changed. It's far short of sort of the transformational, uh, discussion you're having now. I'm wondering what you think is going to make this time around different? Well, I think that is fair. That, that's, uh, that's a little bit how I've experienced this as well, Derek. Um, I do think that committee got done some important work. I think it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a new use of force policy in place now that is a much better representation. I think of what, how the community wants us to deploy for force from our officers than before. Um, chief Murata has spoken eloquently about it. It, it has gone from, I think having the word deescalation and it wants to 17 different times. I think it does. I think important work got done. But, um, um, the reason I am taking this action is because, um, I think it's important for the administration's capacity to engage the community to engage various council pro committee processes, whether it's this joint committee or the commission or, uh, the public safety, uh, committee of the council or any kind of new structures that are getting set up. Um, I, it is, um, I am increasing the capacity administration to gauge those changes in the community. And, um, that is, in essence, why I think we need this position is because we have, I am, I'm seeking to accelerate, um, uh, our pace of change in this area and make sure it gets done in a way that, um, has the confidence of the people at Burlington. And so, yeah, that is our, our history. That's why we're here today. And that's why I'm taking you to accelerate that work and, uh, better achieve the change that I think Burlingtonians are seeking for us to do. If you want to just, let's just let Derek finish and we should move it out. I was wondering if Kyle wanted to weigh on this because it sounded like you thought, you thought long and hard about whether this was something that was going to be worth getting involved in. Yeah, the deja vu aspect of it, and maybe even going back to, I'm sorry, was it Pat? Yeah. I had some thoughts, Pat, and, uh, the redundancy with Taish and me, um, and, uh, I would say what we're hoping for and back to that hope, um, I believe when you have big problems, there's precedent for us as, uh, as, as, as a nation, as communities, as, as, uh, human beings to, uh, realize that sometimes the best you can do is trial and error when you don't have a clear answer, right? We've been the, we've been fighting cancer for how long and right now there's lots of trial and error going on. Uh, we're trying to fight COVID. It's trial and error to get to the vaccine. Sometimes that's the best we have. The thornier the problem, I would argue that's the best we have. Um, so you keep coming at it and I think that's what this is. Taish is here. Uh, Taish is doing incredible work. She's smart. She's competent. She's passionate. She's committed. Uh, but Taish is from Minnesota. Um, and I think there's a really, uh, nice opportunity to have someone who's, uh, been part of the community and, uh, committed like I am. Uh, arguably, uh, I think I could probably show up in any part of our community. Uh, I will have a relationship with someone there. Um, and it's just a reality that, uh, relationships matter. Right? There was a quote. I was talking with someone last night. I can't remember if it was Katie, but, uh, the idea that organizations move at the speed of trust. Human interactions move at the speed of trust. Uh, and so if I show up in the new north end, if I show up in the police department, I'm gonna know lots of the officers. I haven't spent a lot of time there before. Uh, but I'm gonna know lots of the officers, and that will change, uh, the equation. Does not in and of itself get it done. But it is, uh, a new effort, and I think there's a different angle. Uh, so that's one of the things is, um, talk is cheap for all of us, and, uh, I hope to be able to leverage trust, relationships, looking in people's eyes, a common sense of what we want for our children, a common sense of what we want for Burlington. Uh, this isn't about choosing sides, but I'll be clear. Uh, I'm moving from what I see as the reality is we have a racist past and we have a racist current. That's just a fact. Uh, and, uh, the way people deal with the facts is what determines whether or not it becomes a choosing sides. I'm moving forward as if it's not a choosing sides. I, uh, I'm going to, uh, hope that everyone can respect the overwhelming evidence, uh, in support of that, and then the work is what, what we do to deal with that. Um, so, uh, entering with humility, uh, this is a big one. Uh, it will be hubristic to think you'll just come in, uh, and change it, but uh, this is different. It's new this time. What's happened in COVID post, uh, George Floyd? Something different is happening, and the question is, can we transform that? Uh, can we, uh, enter, intervene, interact in such a way that does allow this time, uh, to be different? Um, and, uh, we'll see. Right? But we're, we're all going to do the best we can, and that's why I jumped in, is because I think there's an opportunity, uh, to try to come from different angles, uh, leverage from different things. Uh, it's probably this, this position, uh, unfortunately it will be the, um, I think, and, you know, we can look at the history, but the highest level position in city government that a BIPOC person has ever held. It's 2020. That's, that's, uh, you know, there's something to that. Um, and so that is, that's a move, right? In and of itself, it doesn't get the work done. Uh, but as Chief Morad has, uh, mentioned, as 54 years on this earth, living a certain, uh, experience of reality, I have perspectives that we can share, um, that, uh, um, I think adds to the conversation, the conversation I can have with police officers, the conversation we have with all our partners in the, in the community, uh, that we need to ask to come, uh, with us and, and, you know, all row in the same direction. Ross, go ahead. That satisfied my question. Okay. Great. I'm afraid that we can speak a little bit more. Can we just, uh, we, we, can just, if there's, we haven't, people, we haven't gotten to yet. Fine. Thanks. How are you? Does this community liaison program ease some of those concerns about providing the same level of policing in communities with 74 officers as opposed to 90? Is that going to be a big help? I know you kind of have some. Sure. Well, two positions is not the equivalent of losing, you know, uh, uh, upwards of 20 or more, but it's a start and it's exactly the kind of thing that we are talking about when we say, can we replace certain kinds of services that are currently provided by police with other kinds of resources. And I'm actually really, really encouraged by that. The community affairs liaison who currently works for the police department is a non sworn, uh, member of our department. She is a social worker. She's remarkable. And she does remarkable work with regard to a lot of the communities that we work with on a regular basis, on a recurring basis. People who are houseless, people who are suffering through substance use disorder, people who have mental health issues that are not going to be solved by, certainly not by custodial mental health care, but rather by, by recurring and constant engagement. She's great at that. Great. The idea of being able to augment the services that she provides and actually taking some of those things off the plate of the police and frankly off the plate of others, because some of these individuals, especially those with mental health concerns, also routinely call the newspapers. They call, uh, they call city counselors. They call a lot of people being able to address those with trained people who are on our city's payroll, who are therefore really obligated by that, uh, that responsibility, that civic responsibility to engage is a path forward. And it's absolutely the kind of thing. Is that enough alone to make up for 74 with our call volume? No, it's not. But it's a start. And that's how we get down this road. We take one step and we make a start working on it. Thank you. I think we got time for maybe two more questions. So, Christian? Yeah, I was going to say that you could be a little bit more specific about what specifically are you hoping to revise prior to the two year pre-negotiation when it comes to us scheduled? Well, I mean, I don't think there's likely to be revisions before the two years. I think this is preparation, getting ready for negotiations for a future contract that will probably begin about a year from now. Um, I... The police contracts, police union contracts have become, um, um, uh, come to the forefront of discussions about um, how we ensure that, um, they've come to the forefront of the police reform discussion in a way that they haven't been in prior efforts to improve American policing. And I think we need to be part of that discussion. Um, they're, uh, you know, I want to repeat something I've said many times in the past which is, I don't think all of, I don't think the Burlington Police Officer Association should be kind of painted with the same negative broad brush that some other police unions, I think, are rightly painted with. I think we have a very different situation here than, for example, the situation in Minneapolis. I've always found our police union one that, uh, engages these discussions and um, will hear me out when I talk about reforms and innovations. And I don't think has been, uh, the kind of recalcitrant, uh, negative force that I hear about in other cities. That said, um, I think there are legitimate questions about our contract and the, um, uh, certain details around uh, how, um, long disciplinary actions about officers are, you know, in the personnel file. There are certainly, there are clearly things within the Burlington Police Department that are not immune, but that are consistent with some of the indictments that we're hearing at a national level. And I'd like the city attorney to help getting us ready to evaluate that. I think it will be something that, um, that the council and, uh, and I will find valuable, um, as we head into this future negotiations and I want the public to know we're going to be paying attention to this and looking at this and not ignoring this area of concern. Um, you know, um, um, I am going to uh, let others speak to that. I, I, I, I'll just leave it at that. Why? Why are you unwilling to address it? Um, um, um, um, um, I guess I'll say this. To me, the idea of burning printed material, burning words, uh, it does, um, uh, conjures up, um, uh, historic scenes that, um, it's uncomfortable to see playing out here in Burlington. I was not, uh, comfortable seeing that. I don't, I think, um, um, want to, um, I, I, I hope that, that, that action does not distract from, um, I think the, uh, other, um, actions that the processors have taken. Other, you know, I, I do see, I do see as many Burlingtonians do, um, that part of what these protests have been about, have been about the larger calls for, for racial justice, and, and doing the hard work that we're trying to do here today, and, uh, and, and, uh, I want to, I want to continue work to, to be focused on that and, and move in that direction. Um, uh, interesting question, Ross. Um, you know, uh, I'll tell you, Kyle played a role in our search for last teeth. He was, uh, one of, uh, about 50 members of the community that, um, uh, I brought together and evaluated all of our finalist candidates. And I, um, uh, actually it was more than that, right, Kyle? You were on the whole committee, the whole, the, from the, so, sorry, Kyle was, was on the nine person committee we put together, I can't remember exactly how big it was, but, uh, and actually, you know, I appreciate you writing me that, Ross. I've sort of, like, uh, it's, uh, that was definitely one of the experiences where I think, um, the trust that Kyle and I having each other on these issues grew. Um, I know that we, um, uh, had very similar judgments about, uh, uh, candidates, um, uh, that I, that when he shared them, I thought they were very astute and wise. And I know people, other people on the committee responded similar to that. So it's, that actually is, uh, one of the, the experiences with Kyle that gives me confidence he's the guy for this job. I'm sure he will be involved in the search for and the decisions about a new chief, whether it is, you know, the timeline is such that it, you know, I don't, I think that that search will just be getting going when we are projecting this temporary role to be coming to a close. But, uh, if I'm the one that gets to make, uh, those decisions about the next chief, I definitely will be looking to Kyle to help weigh in. He'll definitely be one of a handful of people that I will really want their, uh, uh, you know, working closely with to get that decision right. All right. Thank you all. I appreciate you coming out. Thank you for sticking with us for a long, a long event. Have a good afternoon and a good weekend, everyone.