 Oregon, this is SiliconANGLE.TV's continuous coverage of Sapphire, where we are bringing you wall-to-wall coverage of Sapphire. We heard Bill McDermott this morning, I'm sorry, yesterday we heard Jim Hageman-Snaabe this morning, and we heard from the CEO of SuccessFactors great messaging, very elegant communications, great graphics, and a lot of talk about simplicity and cloud and mobility, and we're going to get into that. We've got two great guests, both Cube alum, Prasad Rumpali from EMC, welcome back Prasad, good to see you again. Prasad runs the solutions business at EMC, and Farag Patel of VMware, who runs Global Strategic Alliances. Farag, good to see you. Good to be back. So we're here in Orlando at Sapphire. I mean, great to talk to you on camera, and I'm sure you've traveled through a lot. Different than the technology shows that we used for it, that's in a free world, or even VMware. Absolutely. A very business-focused and an honesty level executive, and you know, great vibes. It's great. Well, it's very much a business show. They really go after the business audience, a line of business that they sell to. And the fun thing is they have such great stories to tell. So this morning at McLaren, the racing people on stage, it's all about race cars and new fiber materials, but underneath it was the SAP story. So they do a very good job of packaging the business story around everything. Yeah, there's no control in their race cars. Prasad, you know, we think of SAP. You don't generally think of complex, it takes a long time, it's expensive, it's inflexible, you know, but it's really robust, and you know, if you want to do global supply chain, that's the gold standard. But what you're hearing this week is cloud, mobility, simplicity, personalization, iPads. It's a different message than I'm used to from SAP. What do you make of that? No, it's a fundamental transformation that SAP is actually doing a very good job of. And they've done an excellent job integrating their core NetViewer SAP foundation, which runs traditionally RP, now with this transformative agents on this HANA in-memory computing engine, and then front-ending it with personalization, with CyBase and those products. So really looking at where the market is going, which is all about the consumer, personalized, and enabling real-time information, real-time insight with the back-end of their core business process intelligence that has been their stay at their foundation. So I think it's a fantastic story. Yeah, I mean, once all the MCNV and Republic cloud, and certainly you've both got angles on the public cloud, but a lot of your customers are putting in their essentially building services, you know, IT as a service, including what I would often say compete with the new cloud service providers, you know. In a sense, when I say compete, it's in quotes, right? IP organizations need to be more agile, simpler, faster, more responsive, and that's what needs to be aware, and I've been talking about a lot. I mean, we've heard a lot about public cloud today. It seems like a big leap, and it seems like a lot of vision in there. Maybe, Prog, we can start with you. Talk about what your customers are doing, you know, what you're seeing in SAP specifically. I feel like it's a lot of private cloud activity going on, and I'm just sort of looking for confirmation on that or denial. Well, when you sit down with customers, they have a huge installation of SAP on-premise, and the first task for all the CIOs is to get that installation as agile and cost-effective as possible. So, when we talk to the SAP owners at the enterprise accounts, job number one for them is to turn the internal SAP deployment into an SAP cloud, a private cloud. Now, they'll sometimes go to a public cloud if they need extra capacity, right, or they want to have a sandbox instance. I think a lot of the public cloud you're hearing today at the show is really around success factors and the on-demand and SAP meeting to respond to people like Salesforce. But when we look at the cloud itself and the build-out of the cloud underneath SAP, most of the action is in the private area. Yes, so applications that are relatively narrow, like Salesforce Automation or HR, that's not business. Okay, now, Prasad, I want to ask you about HANA, because I mean, you can't listen to a talk about hearing about HANA. And people are clearly excited about it. You know, the executive chairman of the client said, we're blown away by HANA and potential for productivity. I think HANA portends an interesting future. Talk about HANA, what you're doing with HANA integration, what it means to you guys. As you know, we've got a MOU that we've written with SAP and the core of that MOU is really founded on two key value props. One is a total simplification of management on their landscape organization manager, which was integrated with the embarrassed technology running on our storage. And the other is HANA. And when you unpeel the onion of HANA in terms of how it's going to be deployed in large mission-driven enterprise environments. And I used to run IT for a living. So their primary requirements are not just about, you know, lightning speed. It's also about persistence of data. It's about disaster recovery. It's about high availability. It's about backup and archiving. And so these care abouts of the CIO have to be supported on a very robust EMC-like foundation that's developed over the past 30 years, which I believe will still be relevant to HANA. And so applying flash technologies that HANA will harness for running in memory and then also partitioning to slower memory or flash and then tying to inland storage is going to be the architecture as far as I can tell for the next decade. Well, so I want to follow up on that. And we talked a little bit about the soft camera, but so Shnabe made the statement today, imagine running your applications with everything in memory and no traditional disk-based database. Now, that was sort of a backhanded oracle. And if that's to be very good, you know, they don't really attack the competition. They're pretty classy. But as EMC, you know, you got to be looking at that saying, okay, the world is changing. So how are you changing to, you know, embrace that? We're absolutely looking at where data is going to be computed going forward. And we believe there's three tiers of data, right? The first is data essentially being read in memory and then computed as such co-located with the processor, the X86 processor architecture. And memory set sizes with the Intel roadmap are growing. And so you could absolutely make the case that for a large portion of the applications, that data could be read in memory and compute happens right there. But as you look at the broader set of applications that deal with big data and so on, increasingly there's going to be a need for flash that's co-located next to memory. So you can essentially have data that's read in memory or read on flash and implemented into a compute model going forward. So the technology is like lightning or VF cache that we've announced as you know. We're going to have application awareness of flash, besides memory, that essentially was going to be... But things are changing at the application level now. The big thrust of VMware when Bruce and Todd Nielsen talk with us all the time is the developer community. And they're looking at taking advantage of these new IOR architectures. What are you seeing in the developer community? Maybe give us an update on what's going on with VMware. The transformation happening in the way young developers mobile applications, whether it's big data applications, whether it's analytics, whatever it is, consumer apps, the way things like Zynga and Facebook are put together. We want to make sure that we can enable that generation of developers to build our own platform. And what we're trying to do is be the operating system in between that marries all this innovation of the apps layer with the improvements and efficiencies of the infrastructure. Yeah, you got this man. It's inspired a lot. A couple of years ago in the whole cloud, we've been using data messaging again. Everybody's found that framework. So what is the big data strategy? So fundamentally, again, it goes back to those two layers, which is we want to make sure that our platform can accommodate the increasing volumes and diversity of data that's coming out. And secondly, what's happening with big data, it's a very big term. It means a lot of things to a lot of people. But fundamentally, it means that a lot of apps are going to be much more data intensive than before, and you're going to have a whole new generation of analytics apps that you didn't have before. You can do analytics on all kinds of things you've never dreamed of before. We're seeing it done with weather data and personal data and email data, all kinds of crazy stuff. And so what we're trying to do is make sure that our applications platforms, so Cloud Foundry, for example, are giving developers data services to build these next generation data intensive apps. So the acquisition we made is in that vein. So how do you guys work together? Can you describe that a little bit? I mean, you're partners. The answer is very well. So talk about the dynamics of that relationship, if you will. Well, I'm sure Parag will add to this, but we have a number of threads that we work across. So when you start with the product space, we have roughly about 75 different integration threads that tie our core EMC products with vSphere, you know, VCD, VCOps, the entire VMware stack. And we'll continue to innovate in more dimensions than the 75 that are already underway or have been completed. But the netting of it is when we look at how orchestration or management will be done in enterprise, we want to be an integral part of how vSphere looks at it, and we want to be seamless to the end customer and tie into this LVM project that I talked about, from the application all the way down to the core storage. It has to be a seamless experience for the data center administrator. Do some of those integration points actually get down into the kernel, or do you guys like say no way as we can put a brick wall around that? Well, I don't think we do anything that integrates up the kernel unless it's with a microprocessor. But we've done a lot in the last few years to open up our source code to partners so they can write integrations on their end in a much more intelligent way. And then we've opened up a lot of APIs. Like the storage APIs. Security APIs, networking. Backup security, management. Absolutely. Okay, so that, I think it's clear in the last couple of years we've worked really hard to open those APIs up. Are we seeing the impact in the marketplace now? Are customers actually consuming this stuff? Or are we still sort of in the development stages of the ecosystem? No, a lot of it is out. You know, I think the most mature area is in the management space. Our management APIs from vCenter have been out for over a decade now. And you see an enormous number of third-party plugins into our management suite. You see a lot of integrations where a third-party management tool can access information from our platform and do all kinds of management stuff on it. I think, you know, after that, the storage APIs are getting quickly mature. So there's a lot of storage products out there. In fact, a full product line from EMC that have taken advantage of all those integrations. And you're seeing a lot more orchestration and efficiency between the VMware layer and the storage layer. You know, we've come out with security APIs in the last 18 months, and you're seeing a lot of endpoint security, anti-virus security vendors use those APIs to provide a deeper, more secure experience with the cloud. So I would say we're in the middle innings of that. So I'm talking a little bit about mobile. You know, you're thinking of EMC, you don't necessarily think about mobile. Mobile enterprise company. Yeah, that's the endpoint device. But it's clearly going to be watching all this, saying, OK, applications are changing, the endpoints are changing, security models are changing. Talk about mobile, what it means to you when you can get the frogs input as well. Yeah, really two thoughts come to mind. One is, and I was joking really, the mobile environment is driving a ton of video traffic in the data center. And so as we look at this mobile phenomenon, there's two areas that we're very focused on. One is obviously security. We have the RSA division that is very intimately tied to establishing this notion of Cloud Cloud Trust. And this is the end-to-end trust model that we're looking at with a Cloud Trust broker model that could essentially authenticate at the same time establish credentialing an appropriate level of privileges that a device, which is essentially a resource in the Cloud, could have to be then established as modified in the way, you know, attaches to the backend data center and the application and the data that come with it. So we have a very significant focus on how do we enable that whole end-to-end trust with endpoint devices and clearly the mobile device is going to be the predominant device. And applications like the mobile wallet concept where increasingly we won't have credit cards and how do we enable that level of security touches us on the backend and we are extensively engaged with a lot of companies to innovate in that space. The second is this delusion of video data thanks to the iPhone and photos being ubiquitous. We are looking at how we can essentially have a scale-out architecture on the backend that leverages all this media and clearly Isilon is our flagship product there. And we have a significant ongoing innovation on a robust file system that can scale across thousands of nodes to essentially get to the economies of scale that the mobile and Marvin is going to drive. Okay, so that's great. The backend, you know, it's got to be here. It's got to be reliable. So yeah, more data. And so now product for you guys, mobile is more of a direct play. You know, your whole VDI business is involved in accommodating mobile. It's really transformed the last couple of years. So that's what, you know, the endpoint VDI, what used to be called VDI is one of our three product lines. It's a major, major growth driver for the company. You know, our vision is that we're in many ways the enabler of computing right at the software layer and computing is moving to a myriad of devices and we need to be the platform that enables those devices. So what we've done is we've evolved our platform so that whether you're using the old traditional desktop or a laptop or a smartphone or a tablet we can allow you to have the same experience across all those devices. We allow you to move your data and your applications across all those devices. You can even use different devices throughout the day and yet your personal desktop and desktop is kind of becoming obsolete, but your set of applications and data and interface and look and feel would follow you no matter what device you're on. So we're doing a lot of stuff at the platform layer, at the end user security layer, at the end user application access layer to make sure that the end user can control their apps and their data no matter what devices they use. And you stop at the app development, is that right? I mean, you know, you say there's a point in apps. We've dabbled in apps. But we're really at this level focusing on the app platform, the core cloud platform, and the end users. Right. Prasada, you know, you've been in a buyer organization, a consumer organization, you've had to do a lot of this integration and now you're in a position to really take that experience and solve a lot of the problems that you had to solve as an end user but to try to eliminate some of those mundane tasks. That's going to be kind of a gratifying situation for you. But at the same time a big challenge. You've got all these piece parts, you mentioned RSA, you've got VMware, you've got, you know, you've partnered with Cisco, you've partnered with other communications so you've got this sort of collection of technologies that you have to bring together. So talk about your objectives in terms of your organization and what your vision is in terms of where you want to take it. Yeah, the vision for us as a solutions entity at EMC is really simple. Number one, we want to have a very fast time to market for our core products and the front end of our core products is really a solution view that the customer cares about. You can argue that the customer is really looking at the use case versus buying the core component and so whether it's onboarding or bursting of data or whether it's a VDI in all those use cases, the application is a front face that the customer cares about and then our infrastructure and how it's packaged as part of the application for delivering the experience that it's quality of service or security or management just comes along with it. So my job is really to make sure that that integration with third party ISVs and VMware and others is done in such a way that we deliver to that value proposition and therefore enable a lightning speed adoption curve for our products. That's one, right? The second really is differentiation. It's not just about packaging. It's about in the way it's packaged we create additional value that the customer is going to pay more for. And so when you look at VDI as an example working with Parag's team with Vue 5.1 for example we are enabling a set of incremental features that do storage cloning which drive much more significant reduction in TCO infrastructure across a number of users that can go up to 5,000 or 10,000 without just adding storage. And that amounts to something for how a CIO looks at building out a VDI form. Right? Okay, well let's bring it back to SAP. We're here sort of closing. Yeah, I mean so I sort of started this conversation with you know the view of SAP is complex and cumbersome and very valuable. Clearly you look at the executives here and they're getting value out of SAP but things are changing. You guys are driving as technology companies a lot of that change, kind of cloud, big data virtualization. When you look at SAP and the types of applications that these customers are running look out 3 to 5 years. What do you think this whole environment is going to look like? Well I think you'll still have a fair amount of legacy apps written from years ago but they'll be running on a much more agile cloud-like platform. So they'll feel and behave as cloud-like apps. Then I think you'll see these companies like SAP making huge changes at the interface level. Because the consumer in some ways the horses left the stable. The consumer wants an attractive, elegant interface and they won't compromise. The SAP interface is improving in that direction. I think you'll see things available on mobile devices. I think this is SAP realizing and responding to what the end-user wants. I think you'll see that evolving in the next few years. So my follow-up on that, the extra facade is you know everybody talks about the 70-30 mix 70% of the acting investment is spent on maintenance and running the business and only 30% is spent on running the business innovation. Virtually every CEO I know who talks about that you're two CEOs talking about it all the time. As a former IT professional I think you'll understand the challenges. We live in a labor-intensive economy there's all these hard processes built up it's very hard to change. Do you think what Prasad just talked about that vision and put forth of all the legacy apps do you think it will be able to move the needle on that 70-30 from a practitioners point of view? I believe so and having been an IT for 15 years you'd expect me to be a skeptic. I do have that dose of skepticism that this is going to change overnight but I truly believe and as Joe put it we are at an inflection point from the PC computing era to the cloud era and we have well passed the high curve into deployment and so we believe that as the adoption of cloud becomes more ubiquitous the implementation model of how quickly you can provision applications how quickly you can adopt new applications in the way they are built is going to be much faster at least three to four times faster from the time I used to run IT. So I'm very optimistic that this whole model of the SAP landscape which was extremely complex fully virtualized with a user interface that is integrated with social and so on is going to happen in the next five years. I was struck by Lars and suddenly we were able to see the success factor and Lars talked about some of their innovation. He had the chart that showed the percentage of revenue that came from new products versus old products it was just a staggering amount of it and 85% of it came from new products. I think in order to achieve that 70-30 maybe 50-50 that IT has to be able to deliver innovation in a similar fashion that's different from building products, isn't it? But you guys are both putting forth a vision where the potential is there two questions have you done that or are you beginning to do that internally in your own organization? You're seeing customers actually start to do that. Yes, internally we are heavily virtualized by I'd say almost all of our state is virtualized and then we've now moved on to a lot of SaaS applications we're doing some rapid prototyping on cloud boundary for internal usage and then in customers absolutely everybody is moving quickly to cloud like environments I think our growth is a testament to that our growth in customers our growth in bookings and sales and once customers once they get 50-70% virtualized there's no going back they realize the value, they realize the automation and they are actually investing more and more in these new apps doing new things on the innovation side because they have to Have you seen the same thing inside your organization? Absolutely, I've been looking at EMCIT we are frankly deploying the largest SAP transformation project there is and the plan up today is called Propel and it's going to be Propel Propel in the company and it's fully virtualized Can you talk about that a little bit? Propel is essentially a grounds up implementation of a brand new ERP system running on SAP but the conception is not just traditional ERP it's an end to an implementation of SAP as a core platform that's going to enable the core transaction environment enable the analytics environment and on top of that create a personal user interface for all the employees in the company and extend to the B2B model for suppliers and partners as well it's a very extensive implementation it's a full change in the data model of the company it's a standardization of core product definitions in how you run an ERP environment what is the definition of the customer what is the definition of our product how we actually book the order create backlog how you ship it so it's a fundamental redefinition and a change in our business process to much higher efficiencies at the same time enabling single versions of the truth of our core master data on an SAP infrastructure that is going to be fully virtualized with real-time analytics on the back end so obviously Hannah Hannah is involved right? Hannah is on the roadmap we are taking this at a phase at a time so in our first implementation we just want to get the core transaction environment down and then we're going to extend that to our back end environment and Hannah is clearly part of our roadmap how much do you get involved as your organization get involved helping construct that solution so we have a symbiotic relationship with IT even with VMware IT we have this playback and feed forward model where if you look at EMC IT they have a pretty significantly elegant middleware capability that they've developed they have they have leveraged technologies from VMware on SQL fire, gemfire which is their real-time in-memory implementation of data and we are looking at that and tying that back to can we enable migration of data as a solution that can be offered with how you move to a Vmax and so on so it's a a very close partnership so you're a resource for the IT group is that correct or another way around? it's actually a do loop we come up with certain solutions that IT says hey we could be first adopters for and we're looking at HANA as a good model for that where we are leading this whole HANA appliance certification with SAP at the same time we're looking at our EMC IT shop to deploy the first set of use cases for HANA in EMC IT conversely they've come up with some pretty innovative concepts on how to do a data staging very rapidly from a core SAP environment to an analytics environment leveraging VMware's technology on SQL fire, gemfire and we are taking that and saying okay we want to standardize this as a core offering in the way we go to market a major investment in SAP I always love to have like a fly on the wall in the meeting between Tucci and McDermott when the discussion goes down and you don't make a decision like lightly and you better have the CEOs looking at each other in the house and you should talk to Sanjay our CIO he's probably going to give you a lot more insight than I have but it's a very proud of it it's a big bet yeah we've had Sanjay in the queue we've had Tony Paggs on the queue as well too folks from EMC IT and pretty innovative organization and we've had Mark Egan on as well so it's great that you guys make your IT executives accessible and I think it's not only good marketing but they are at the leading edge in some of the practitioner activities each your own dog food right so any solutions that we come up with we want to make sure IT you know we use that term last year with Oliver Busman who's the CIO and he said well we're SAP we prefer to drink our own champagne that's a better way of saying it alright Prague Matel and Prasad Rampali thanks very much for spending some time with us on the cube here at Sapphire good luck with everything we'll see you guys we're going to be at EMC world next week I presume you'll be there very much so yes okay good well we'll have the cube there we'll be in the bloggers lounge and I'm sure we'll be at VM world as well back in San Francisco this year I'm very happy about that because I've spent way too much time at shows in Vegas so I was happy with Rick Jackson said we'll be back in San Francisco and in Barcelona in October I'm not sure we're going to make that trip but maybe we will we were in Barcelona last fall but not at VM world so maybe this year thanks everybody for watching and we'll be right back after this word from our sponsor