 And that's what it's all about when we realize that, I mean, I've actually gone into groups and I'll say a statement of fact for me is that I don't have any opinions about anything. In fact, people all the time are asking me opinions about politics or the environment or all these things. I tell them I don't have any opinions and they say, well, how can you live? How practically can you even live in this world? Well, that's where guidance comes in. I mean, if you've got to have something to take the place of the opinions and that's where your intuition, your inner listening comes in. It takes over. And it's so beautiful because that way you don't have to get into debates with anybody. You're not trying to make a point. You're not trying to be right. You're not trying to convince somebody of something. You're not trying to convert somebody. What a beautiful world we were talking about that last night dinner when you're not trying to convert anybody. How happy are you to just be there and feel their love and the connection that's there? So I think we're resuming though. Are we getting close to chicken time? What was one? Ten more minutes. Ten more minutes, OK? We're close to... We have some beautiful music if you want to listen to a couple of songs. I'll listen to that. I'll listen to that. What was gospel music, huh? I'd rather listen to the music we just got all of us. Yeah, I think so. OK. Do we have any other topics you'd like to explore? I mean, we just went into a big one called Living in the Preservalm. So it's going... It's been around for a long time. Did you meet Rende? Yes. Be here now. That's right. I look forward to it. It's interesting. I just saw a film of Ram Dass in his later years. Ram Dass. Ah, Ram Dass. Oh, yes. It was called... It had courage in it. Isn't it? Yeah. He's alive. Yes. He had a stroke in 1997. And this is what he described in the movie. Here he is, he's laughing. Now he's in his wheelchair and he's laughing and he's going, here I was in 1997. He described himself as Mr. Spiritual. Because he's written all these books and he's gone to India and Outrams and all his whole life is dedicated to talking about meditation and spiritual value. So in 1997 he said, here I am, Mr. Spiritual. And he starts to have a stroke. And as he's having a stroke, he's just looking up at the ceiling and he noticed in his mind while he's having a stroke that he wasn't having one thought about God. Not one, he goes, oh my God, here it is, Mr. Spiritual. Facing death without one spiritual thought in his mind. You know what he said? He said, that was the most humbling moment of my life. From that point on, he dedicated, that was 1997, he dedicated himself to going even deeper inside. To facing all of his expectations. He had just bought a brand new car and when he had the stroke he couldn't drive the car. And he had to face the limits. He always prided himself at taking care of others. And he couldn't stand the thought of being taken care of and receiving. And all those years since 1997 have given him many, many opportunities to see that giving and receiving are the same. They're such a blessing. So that's what I would say, the ultimate of this whole journey is you start to become very humble. It's a very humbling journey. The more that you go inward, the more you see how little that you know. And it just keeps getting more and more profound until you get to a point where you release opinions. You just release all the opinions of attempting to say something. He was always too ready for the next level in circumstances that he thought they were bad. Yes. Next to our heads, it's kind of the greatest of them. I think saying if anyone being Christ is a new preacher compared to the Bible is very fitting in that situation. As a whole, and if you change this, all things are gone. You're a new preacher. Born again, that's the deeper meaning of being born again. It's not professing belief in Jesus Christ, the man, or a belief system, but when the Bible talks about a renewing of your mind in the New Testament, it really means that renewing of your mind. It means returning your mind to that state of innocence, to that state of grace that is prior to time. Because we're also used to thinking of the present moment as in between the past and the future. It's pristine. It's untouched. It's prior to all this time stuff. You see it in the devil's eyes, don't you? Yes, twinkling eyes. The man who laughs is specific. Yes. Are you on dust still? No, it was just an example we were talking about. Yes. He has survived his stroke. He's still alive. Yes. What about being and doing? Being and doing. She's asking a question about being and doing. Well, to believe in the ego is to believe in the body and to believe in the busyness and lack, which is where the doing arises in this world. Ron here, we were talking about that. You and I had lunch. We still have to work for our keep. We still have to... We still have to do it. We still have to do it. Yes. In terms of doing, you might say, there's a very famous book from the Sufi mystic, Kavil Gibran, the prophet. And he says, in a time long work, he says, when you work, work with love. St. Augustine, a very famous Christian mystic, said, love and do what you will. In other words, we have to be very clear about our motivation because as long as we're confused about our motivation, then we can get into a lot of ego distractions. Even people that get into service, trying to be the service of others, can get burned out if they're following the ego because they feel like they're sacrificing something. They feel like, oh, I'm doing all this for others, but this isn't really for me. But if you're truly in the spirit, what you're doing is for everyone, including yourself. So I know even with the Course in Miracles, I had friends who tell me, I went into the prison systems, I traveled, I went everywhere, but I'm burned out. And whenever you get burned out, then it's a humbling moment to start to come back and say, hmm, what's going on? Is it because I'm trying to change the world? Still, the subtle thing of trying to change the world or save the world. Because it's in your mind. What you're trying to fix out there is something that's unhealed in yourself. Constantly looking for it and trying to save it. Out there, I mean, you're never going to do it. That's all about it. Yeah. I can only ask you one question. I have come across writings where the one thing came out that was that people said, I mean, very, very mature, very old, old souls probably ready to not have to reincarnate anymore, you know, really going into liberation. And they said all the time, and it came from English literature, I got all my, I had to give my thanks somewhere because that is the enormous gift I received from the, I can't say it in any other way, from the British side of the, whatever, whoever, they are not the angels, I know that, but it has lifted me because I lost the contact with spirit because in Europe, because, you know, where it was very regimented and so on, it was the era, especially in the Germanic sort of, you know. So I was, and then I came to England and it was all that was lifted. I met people, they said something, say, I came from deep inside and I said, oh, hold on, you said something, I've never heard that, please, I repeated, and they said, what, what, what? And then I said, oh, I repeated, well, you then, you know, oh, and then I said, why, why did you, what made you say, well, I don't know, I haven't got a clue. And then I said, it's not possible that they come up with such deep truth and then they say that their mind hasn't gone along with it or isn't worried or, you know, and then, but it does come up in the English literature, truly some sit in here because I had American literature, I had Canadian, I had South Africa, you, me, me, wherever they had been, it's now a mixture of mind, you, but never mind. We put it in more of a context in the sense that this has given me so much. It's a reflection, it's like you were ready and it was reflected, but I would say in terms of cultures, for example, that this world is backwards and upside down. So we have things like, I would say, we call industrialized nations what the world calls civilized nations, and then we have cultures like the Aborigines over there in Australia. In many cases, very telepathic. What the world would judge as very primitive. But again, since everything is backwards and upside down, or in this book, and the series of life, I mean you had in Europe a group of beings that would sit still in the silence and heal the world through their nurturing stillness. Now, my journey has taken me to all these different countries, and the sneaky thing about the ego is that the ego invents a lot of rules and regulations and rituals in this world that are designed to minimize fear. Why do we have traffic signals? Why do we have prisons? Why do we have regulations and judges and so forth is to hold down fear. In other words, the people to believe is if we didn't have all these rules the world would really be chaos. You think it's chaos now without some rules and structures. But what I've noticed is I've traveled around the world, is I've actually gone in some cultures in South America where they don't have such rules and regulations. For example, in Buenos Aires it's a city of over 15 million people. 15 million, more than that, and they don't have stop signs. They don't have stop signs. No stop signs in Buenos Aires. Now imagine practically speaking if you were living in a city of 15 million people with how many intersections? Millions of intersections. And no stop signs. Now what does this do? Well, what you would have to do is you would soon have to be what? Very telepathic. If you were a cab driver. And imagine down there because the economy has collapsed. They didn't hold their currency contingent with the dollar and with other currencies. So their whole economy completely collapsed. And doctors and lawyers and teachers and professionals had to take up jobs like cab drivers. But it actually was an advance in their career. We go from doctor to cab driver because you have to be telepathic in that place. And you have to tune into the intuition. You see how backwards it is? And the cab driver. I had one cab driver who was so happy and peaceful that I was doing the Course in Miracles gatherings. His name was Juan. I said to Juan, would you come in and speak at the Course in Miracles gathering? I asked the cab driver to come in and speak. And he said, yes, I would be glad. And he went in and he was very calm. He called it palatable of detachment. The cab driver did. What I'm saying is when we talk about civilizations and rules and regulations, it's kind of like the same topic of insurance that you have to start to become more and more intuitive and get in touch with divine laws in your mind. And to do that, you will have to release these other ones. We've all been raised with the laws of nutrition, the laws of medicine, the laws of economics. Some of them, we know these laws like the back of our hands. We know you all about the body and nutrition and this and that. You know what? It's not going to get you into the kingdom of heaven. Because guess who made all these laws up? The ego. The ego made them all up. That's going to get you out of it is your intuition. Because 2,000 years ago, Jesus said it's not what you put in your mouth that defiles. He was beginning to undo the laws of nutrition 2,000 years ago. It's your thoughts. If you're thinking without grievances and judgments, that's where your health starts with mental health. And you know what he says in the Course? He says all illness is mental illness. So if you follow him, what he's saying is your health starts and ends with your thinking. It starts and ends. So all I've done in my life is I've been very honest and I started to question all those laws of nutrition of economics, medicine, exercise. I was trained in the laws of exercise. What happens if you don't exercise? What happens to muscles if you don't exercise? We're told they waste away. We're told. But what I find, I had been a professional tennis instructor. I went to the gym. I did cardiovascular fitness and this and this. I'll tell you right now, what's for me to turn around is to shift in my thinking. You know, I had to learn even when I was going to the gymnasium to have holy encounters and to perceive my brother as myself. Instead of focusing on their body, I had to learn a different way. So full, yes. What if your body is completely broken? Take my free cross. Take my free cross. Take my brother. Where your body has completely a problem that seemingly can't be fixed. What do you do with that? If you want to be able to get up and walk again or whatever. Is that still up here? That's released again. You would start and you would end with my thing. In other words, it doesn't matter whether you seem to be in a wheelchair or not in a wheelchair, your mind goes with you wherever you go. And what you could say is your mind training is something when we talk about releasing your mind from judgments, I could tell you so many stories. I'll tell you one story of meeting a man in Argentina who was a paraplegic and I was meeting with a psychiatrist in Argentina and he finally were having lunch and he said, David, would you like to meet my teacher? And I said, yes, take me to your teacher. So we went down by this big river and there was a man who's about 26 years old sitting in a wheelchair and the psychiatrist who's probably about 55, 60, a very famous psychiatrist down there introduced the man in the wheelchair and said, here's my teacher. He has taught me more about life and love and forgiveness than anyone that I've ever met. And then I sat down and the man was in the wheelchair and I sat there and we gazed at each other and I said to him, tell me your story. You seem very happy. And he said that he had been able to walk and he was able to walk and move around but when he was diagnosed with a tumor on his spine and he was told that he would have to go in for an operation that was very risky and that he may not walk after the operation. So he went under anesthesia on September 11th of 2001 and he went under anesthesia which would have been in the early morning hours of the United States and he went under anesthesia and while he was under anesthesia they operated on the tumor and when he woke up he had no use of his legs and he was in such a state of ecstasy in such a state of oneness and happiness that the doctors and nurses tried to tell him while you were under anesthesia a terrible, terrible tragedy has occurred in the United States and he he could not comprehend what they were trying to tell him he told me from his wheelchair that he went through that experience when he was under anesthesia where it seemed like his ego was operated on instead of the tumor he said I don't know what happened whether I was in a deep state of prayer or whatever but he woke up and he said his personality self his pride his jealousy his envy and everything had been lifted and he woke up in a state of ecstasy and his legs didn't work so this is quite an interesting terrible because he ended up becoming a teacher to many people in Buenos Aires it would come to him for spiritual training and counseling and yet his spiritual career didn't actually begin until he seemed to lose his life now again, if everything is backwards and upside down in this world people ask me all the time about teaching and I say we really don't teach with our words we're used to thinking about that we teach with our attitude it's our attitude that is the teacher this young man people would say well at least he could walk before he had this experience I say what do you mean? at least he could walk his attitude is what's doing the teaching and then if it's part of the script how I say the script is written there are those you could say miracles where like with Jesus the blind could see the lame could walk those with palsy and so on and so forth but that's basically what I call symptom removal and I've worked with people over the years but we've had miracles like that which are called symptom removal but in the end what Jesus is saying with the Course of Miracles is we're not trying to heal the bodies we're trying to heal the mind and the whole point of this whole journey is to wake up to the Kingdom of Heaven to wake up from the dream and you see how different that is and that's why Jesus would say tell no man when there was even healings in his day why would Jesus Christ of all people say tell no man which he says in the Bible except maybe his purpose was a higher purpose to teach people my Kingdom of Heaven is not of this world I am calling you out of the world to a higher public so what this does is it gives us context not to put so much importance on the body in fact I would do so far to say that the only purpose of the body is communication and you can communicate love in many different ways the ego thinks that the body is for things like walking and dancing the ego thinks the body is for things like sex for competition you know they tell me that New Zealand is the country of extreme sports people diving off cliffs and paragliding and bungee jumping and this and that but when you get to A Course in Miracles it is clearly and in no uncertain term says that the body only has one use just one and that's communication it's a device to extend love and so that's a very good teaching very good