 Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Kim Mavery, Program Manager here at Interfaith Ministries for Greater Houston in the Department of Interfaith Relations and Community Partnerships. And on behalf of myself, our President and CEO, Martin Kaminski, and my colleagues here on the call, we just thank you all for joining us and registering for today's program. Today is the fifth and final discussion in our vital conversations with our community series. Today's subject is a season of caring, mental health and the holidays. And our conversation is with two of our community educators, one who works with faith leaders and one who works with health professionals. And they're going to teach us about how to manage anxiety and navigate family dynamics and respond to the continued stress that we are all under with COVID in our midst. And as we all are coming together again, many of us for the first time in about two years with our family and friends for holiday gatherings, so there's a lot of anxiety wrapped in that and so we're happy to provide this service for you today. Interfaith Ministries is pleased to be able to host these virtual conversations in this series of vital conversations with our community on topics with people and organizations around the Greater Houston area. We offer thanks for the support of this series from Sitco Petroleum Corporation as the sponsor of our entire 2021 Vital Conversations series. Now, before I proceed, I just want to give everybody a reminder that this event is being recorded, and then to just thank all of you for joining us on Zoom. Please keep yourselves muted and please make sure you use the chat box and send any questions you may have to me. I'll be reading the questions and then posing those to our guests. Hello conversations series, if this is your first time joining us, please know that this series emerged after the death of George Floyd, a son of Houston's third ward in May of 2020 in Minneapolis where he was killed. In June, we brought our three amigos, Reverend Bill Lawson, Archbishop Joe Fiorinzo and Rabbi Sam Karth into the dialogue to begin this series. Fortunately, it would be the final time that the three amigos would be together in the same space as Rabbi Karth died shortly after that conversation in August. Since that first discussion, we have hosted two seasons and seven conversations with many amazing people and organizations in our community. And you can visit and refresh yourself with these dialogues that have already happened at our website www.imgh.org to listen to all of these past vital conversations and to learn more about all the work that we do here at Interfaith Ministries. The program you're here today will be up shortly after we edit and have time to post it on our website so you can go back or spread the word to your friends and let them join in on what they missed. Now we're going to start today's conversation. I'm going to introduce you to our guests. And again, this is the last in our series for 2021. And to close out this year, we are focusing on what we are all dealing with. And we've heard from a lot of you in the community about things that were that that were all stressed about. And so maintaining our mental health, managing anxiety, navigating family dynamics and responding to the ongoing stress of COVID is something we hear from all of our friends out in the community a lot. And so we thought this was a great way to close out the year before we start 2022. To help us navigate this very vital topic, we welcome our two guests. The first is Dr. Ken Schumann. He has been a student of family systems theory for more than 20 years and teaches family systems at Houston Graduate School of theology where he is a professor of pastoral leadership. He is also the leader of a ministry called faith walking, faith walking helps individuals apply systems thinking in a practical way so that they grow in emotional maturity. Ken gets to practice these principles with his wife Becky and his two grown daughters, and with his large extended family so thank you Ken for being with us. And also our second guest is Miss Akima Taylor. She comes to us as a former student of Dr. Schumann and a registered nurse for over 20 years. After many years in the hospital setting Akima now works for Community Health Choice, an extension of Harris health systems and Miss Taylor has a vast practical working knowledge of passing along all her wisdom and the things she's learned and Dr. Schumann's class and other classes in teaching others the skills of managing anxiety as she educates clinical and non clinical health professionals on best practices in managing patient populations, living with the stressful conditions of chronic diseases such as asthma diabetes, heart failure and mental health disorders. Akima has been married to her lifelong love of 25 years, and they are the proud parents of three children, Lindsay Alexis Alexandria and one grandson. So Dr. Schumann and Akima, we welcome you both and thank you for being a part of this discussion. Before we dive into the program, I just want to make sure that all of you have your worksheet out in front of you. I emailed that to all of you last night but or if you don't have it with you or you can't find it, please just send your email in the chat box, and we will get that to you shortly. So just look for that and if you don't already have it in front of you, bring it up on your screen or print it out because it's just got a lot of great tools and kind of triggers for questions that you might want to ask. So again, I remind you to pose any questions in the chat box and then I'll give those to our guests. So, Dr. Schumann and Akima, let's just dive right in and ask the question that is fostered by the title of our program, which is, what are the primary causes of anxiety during this holiday season. Dr. Schumann. Yeah. Thank you for having me. I am so glad to be here and so glad to be partnering with my friend Akima. And so there are a variety of answers to the question, what are the main causes of anxiety. We're going to highlight so many. I hope we don't overwhelm the group with just all of the vastness of it. One of the reasons we get anxious in the holidays is, is we have high expectations that other people are going to be different than they are. And when they aren't different than they are, we get anxious, and we get reactive, and we can go into much more detail around that. And a couple of other things, I think, during the holidays we have a propensity to say yes to too many things. And we get exhausted and we get, and we get run down and, and that makes us anxious because we've got one more party to go to or one more gift to go by or whatever. And one of the other things about anxiety or causes for anxiety that I want to highlight today is often the holidays are not exciting and fun times for people. Because they've lost significant others in their life. And the holidays are a time that reminds them of that. And we get anxiety around our grieving and around our sense of loss. And so today I hope that all of us will recognize that if you have anxiety during the holidays for whatever reason, you're not alone. That there are a whole lot of us that are going to have anxiety, and that there are some tools we can use to help us with that. Akima, what would you add to that list? I would, I would add that everything that you said is absolutely relevant. It is a tough time. And I think the first part of that is really acknowledging that part of it, right? To deny it or to try and escape over it just causes more what we call anxiety, right? And so focusing in on how you feel about those situations or if you have a feeling about those situations, am I buying too many gifts, right? If you're an introvert or you're a commander, they say your personality, they say, you know, buying too many gifts, that's not even your thing. You'd rather just give a gift card or tell them what to get or move on. So understanding what you have inside you absolutely on top of what she said is key to beginning, at least before we begin the rest of the season. Thank you, Akima. And, you know, on everybody, if you have your worksheet, you'll notice that Dr. Schumann has provided us with these great just outline of how we manifest anxiety. And Dr. Schumann, if you would kind of talk through some of these with us on the, what are the typical ways that we react to anxiety? Yeah. Thank you, Kim. Let me lay a foundation for that by saying, what I believe is that all of us in our first formation in those first 17 years of our lives were, we had needs that went unmet, or we got wounded in some ways. And we learned ways of protecting ourselves as children. And those were appropriate when we were eight, nine, 10, even 12, 13 years old. Those were really appropriate ways of protecting ourselves. But those ways of protecting ourselves became the habit of our life. And now we get triggered around those things. And our triggers cause anxiety. And when we get triggered, what we end up doing is showing up in one of typically these five ways. So one way is by conflicting. We want to argue or we want to debate or we want to get really intense and verbally belittle or shame other people, or we talk about them behind their backs or whatever. But recognizing that conflict is one of the ways that we react to anxiety. A second way of reacting to anxiety is distancing. And we can distance emotionally. So that's when you just shut down and you and you just close off inside. I'm man, I'm great at that, by the way. Or we might physically distance. You might say, and the ultimate form of distancing is cut off, where you say, Hey, I've had enough of you. I'm just going to cut off. I'm just leaving. I'm getting out of here. I'm not going to talk to you again, because you generate too much anxiety in my life. So cut off is three, four is over and under functioning. And those are reciprocal, which means that whenever there is a person that is over functioning, there will always be a person that gets to under function. And we might, we might trade places. So the overfunction or may suddenly quit over functioning and start under functioning and the underfunction or starts over functioning and we play, we play this game or we have this dance back and forth. And then the final way that we react to anxiety is by triangling, where we bring another person in, and we involve them in our anxiety. Sometimes we call that venting, and we just, we just, we bleed all of them or we are we just, we throw all of our anxiety all over them and we feel better once we get it off our chest, but we haven't resolved the issue. So those are kind of the five different ways and what I want to say to all of you is as I'm in my own life. I've learned that I do all five of those, depending on my role and my relationship. So if I'm in a leadership position conflict is a lot easier for me in my marriage, I tend to be an overfunction. But I triangle regularly. And, but, but I have one that's kind of my standard go to, and my standard go to is distancing. So when I get anxious, I start shutting down, I start withdrawing, I might physically move away. And Akima, I know you identify with distancing so talk to us about that a little. Absolutely. You called it out. That's that's my target right there. My go to is distancing. I'm much better than I was before. I must say, right? This is not a destination, but it is a it's a journey. Right. I'm better today than I was two years ago. But you're absolutely right. My go to is to feel anxious. Right. Understand there's a problem and to avoid going off snapping losing it, having conversations I shouldn't have, I shut down in distance. Right. But this is what I've learned in this journey over two years. Also, I'm not really conflict. I'm not really, I didn't think that I was I'm not going to throw my hands around or or anything like that. Not initially, I'm a go to. But do you know what I learned was conflict sarcasm. I was wondering why people got upset when I got sarcastic right. But so in the last two years I've worked really hard to, you know, just cut out the cynicism cut out the sarcasm and either answer the question yes or no. But when I'm tired and I'm lazy and I just don't find it's almost like a second language sometimes right but it does cause conflict in situations where there is anxiety for sure. Yeah. Can I ask you both you know, early when I was introducing the two of you can for you particular, I use the term family systems. And so we've done a lot of explaining and talking without really labeling what you just were talking about as family systems can you kind of connect those dots for us. What was it that you said that relates to family systems and if you can kind of put that in a nutshell. Yeah. Yeah, great question let me try to put it in a nutshell. So systems are about holes, they're about how all the parts function together. And so family systems are about, how do we all interact with our with our families or at work with the people at work, because the people at work work like a family system. And, and when we talk about family systems, one of the principles of family systems is is anxiety and how anxiety runs through a system. So here's, here's the thing to remember at the holidays anxiety is contagious. When one person in a system, whether that be the family or at church or at work or, or with your friends gets anxious that anxiety is contagious and others take on the anxiety and pretty soon, these five ways that we react, everybody's reacting out of their way of anxiety. What I would say also to you is. This is really important. Most of the time when people don't behave the way you want them to behave. It's not that they're bad people. It's that they're anxious people. So the reason they are behaving when you go home for Christmas dinner, if that's what you do or when you gather with friends, if people behave in ways that that are unpleasing to you often, it's going to be about their own anxiety. My anxiety is contagious, but but here's an important principle but so is calmness. And so if I can manage my own anxiety within myself and become a what we call a less anxious presence. Notice I don't run, I don't distance I don't cut off, I stay present, but I manage my own anxiety and become less anxious. For me, those are kind of that that's a beginning place for understanding anxiety within a family systems concept on context, Kim. Is that the same thing I remember hearing the term being self differentiated. Is that the same thing. It's not exactly the same thing but self differentiation is is a principle of family systems and self differentiation is our level of self differentiation is impacted by our anxiety. So self differentiation is when I can show up with anybody in my life and be completely who I am show up as completely me. While at the same time, allowing them to be completely them. And, and I'm telling you that's hard, and it's, and it takes growth, and it takes practice. Akeema alluded to this just a moment ago, group. The only way we get better is through practice. And if I may say, say a couple of things and then I'll get ready because I'm about to pass the baton to you, but so we practice managing anxiety we practice recognizing anxiety. And this is a saying that I that I love to use. And unfortunately with this kind of work, it's internal and it's personal. And it's with other people. So it's practice, but the practice is all done in public. I can't go hide in the closet and practice managing my anxiety. I've got to do it with people because it's the people that make me anxious. All right. My anxiety gets stirred up. And so here's a little phrase practice is in public. And therefore, all practice is imperfect. That's good. That's great. To the worksheet. Don't beat yourself up when you go home at Christmas or when you're with whomever you're going to be with, and you get anxious, and you're practicing recognize it's just practice. And you know what you might not be have a good day of practice that day. Okay, it's not about perfection. And there is that old adage practice makes perfect. Here's, I don't believe that practice makes progress. And it's the progress that we're after a chemo dive in on that help us flesh that out a little bit. I guess I would have to go for self differentiation on this one right we talked about this very recently you and I can. We talked about being who you are right understanding who you are understanding your stance on issues. Right. And your stance is just your stance you don't need a co signer for it. You need anybody to agree with it per se. And again, we're practicing I might have a stance this way but if I learned something new tomorrow, then my stance may change but then again it's mine and you said this is the key can. You said and they have the chance to be self differentiate I get to let them be who they are. Right. They don't have to believe like I believe they don't have to say like I have to say. Right. And so the more I'm able to control my anxiety with disagreeing with someone or the more I have to control my anxiety when someone is disappointing. But what I thought they should have done, signing those silent contracts right I expect them to do a b and c and they had no idea that they were even up for that. Right. Right. All of that internal work. Now I begged Dr. Schumann at one point can we please just do this in private. I mean. But in public is where it happens and you are absolutely right. Thank you for bringing that to the front point. You will get it wrong. My rear view mirror is the best view in this situation. My rear view mirror has 2020 I can adjust as I should have done that differently. And I give myself a lot of grace with getting it wrong today or half right or I got a better right today than I did yesterday. Or you know what today I just bombed out I lost it in a meeting I lost it with my friend my family forgive myself. And try again tomorrow. Yeah. If it's okay let me tell a story of what that looks like. So my mom is still alive. She's 92 years old. And she's seen a lot of life in 92 years and I love my mom she's still really with it in mentally and intellectually. And in this past election cycle. My mom one day we went to visit her and my mom said well well I want to talk about the election. And the minute she said that my anxiety just spiked right through the top of my head. Because because I know my mother thinks about things politically different than I think about things politically. And and and I don't want to get in argument with my mom and I don't you know I don't I don't want to react out of my anxiety with conflict and so I said to my mom I said to her now mom, you need to understand that I see politics and the political environment different than you do. And I just want you to know that in advance. And my mother said this in return she said, yeah, I know you do. But she said, you're the only one that I can have a calm conversation with about this. Because everybody else in the family gets too anxious about it. Well, I was thankful she said that and by the way she overstated it because I was still anxious. My anxiety was still still there but we were able to create some space where where she was able to ask questions and I was able to tell her some things. And we got to a place where we just agreed to disagree, but we both respected one another in that. And, and, and so I think that's what it looks like. I also want to say, and I've been working on this stuff for a long time in my life, and I'm still got anxiety. I said this to Kim just earlier and I want to say it here. The goal is not to get rid of all of the anxiety in our in our lives because I think that's impossible. The goal is, can I manage my anxiety, so that I become less anxious. And can I show up as the person I want to show up as as the best version of myself while I'm anxious. That's the goal. And that's where the practice is so all of these five ways of reacting to anxiety are the ways that I show up when I'm not at my best. So when I'm not at my best I show up with conflict distancing cut off over and under functioning triangle and all of those things. But when I show up as my best I'm able to manage my anxiety, be more calm, be more clearly defined and stay connected with people even if they see, see things different than I did. Very good yeah you that that is again we need to have an addendum to the worksheet because you're already giving us lists of additional things. One of the things that that we've talked a lot about anxiety as it relates to family, and the title of this talk really alludes to that. But I know one of the things in the study of family systems that I had when I was in seminary is how family systems manifest itself in the workplace right we're talking about the holidays. And so many of us are going to be having work holiday parties for the first time in a while. So people have a tendency to let their guard down. And then I know, you know, right now everybody's trying to cram everything in for the end of the year and balance it with your personal life. And, you know, I think what's interesting about the two of you together is that can you work with pastoral leaders, you know our future pastoral leaders people who are in ministry in the faith communities. And then a chemo you're working with people in in the work environment which just happens to be the health environment. So it's like you're both working with family systems that manifest in these different dynamics. Recently an article came out that a lot of people have been forwarding to us about how that over 40% of pastors. In the last couple months have considered leaving ministry in the last year. So we see how that anxiety is in the our houses of worship. And then I mean you know you had, you had to have been completely cut off from humanity if you know the anxiety and the health community right now. So my question to both of you is, how do we manage some of these things how does how is this anxiety different and how do we cope with it in the workplace. And, you know, rather than just our home life, because it's interesting that we take on the same roles that we do from our family of origin from families, and then we transfer that into our place of work. Can you give us some tips both of you on how do you transfer this knowledge that you have to help people cope with their places of work, be it a house of worship, or a clinical setting. Good question. Why don't you go first this time would you. Sure, absolutely. So you hit the nail on the head Kim, understanding where you are in a family really helps with where you are in your workplace right so I'm an only child. I'm a mom's only child right understanding that a lot of times I need my space or I need to just take care of the situation, or even I can take my toys and go in the house and play by myself whatever that means for an only child. It helps me on my job it helps me in ministry if you will. And so, when there is anxiety around whatever is going on in the office it helps to understand as an only child. Sometimes I don't understand sibling rivalries, like I don't do rivalry well. Probably why conflict I didn't think was one of my biggest go to me on sarcasm. But, you know, so understanding that I can go in a group in a group at work, or even in healthcare when you're trying to educate someone, and I can almost pick where they sit in the family now, right, I can tell the first born. Right, I can tell. What the first born looks like. Well that first born is pretty bossy there. Did I just put someone in a box. No, because we're all we're all in a journey here, but no and I can tell who is the youngest in the family. Right, sometimes the youngest sometimes not all the time sometimes else and really be an underfunctioner. Right, they want everyone to do it for them. Right, they'd rather just everyone make the decisions. And then, you know, go with go along with the group, but understanding how that plays out understanding where you sit in your family to help deal with those issues and also how how other how how my family reacts to anxiety. Right, is typically how I may react to anxiety. Right, I'm not just cut off because I was born this earth by myself and just appeared on earth and I just cut off what's my thing. No, when I went through faith walking, or I'm going through faith walking with Dr. Shuman. One thing I learned is I can trace cut off all the way back to my great, great grandmother, great great grandmother, right, and family, and we were some cutters. Right, but understanding that understanding that all the way through through this point in my life and our lives is very important. And so then I have to ask personal questions to myself by myself. You know, am I anxious because of what am I going to do? What am I going to have my going to respond by cutting off or like can just said, am I going to sit in this situation, control the anxiety within me. Right, it'd be very much in the present and allow them to be who they are so that we don't over overreact so I don't over respond so I don't over function. I can do it. I promise you I can do it. If you give it to me right now Kim, I can do it right. I am a do word right, but I have to control that over function and just let it be. Yeah. Yeah, and I think the thing to remember a chemo that you highlighted is we are only responsible for ourselves. Absolutely. We can't be responsible for other people. And that's really important here during the holidays is I'm not, I'm not responsible for making anybody else happy. I'm only responsible for me. And, but I am responsible for me. And so I want to manage myself I want to manage my anxiety. And I want, I want to show up in ways that are my best self to the best of my ability. That that's a real key goal. And one of the things that we get trapped in group is we get trapped in this thing of blaming other people. And we're, and we keep our focus on what other people are doing, rather than what we are doing. So here's a question for you. This is one of the addendums Kim, a question to always ask ourselves is this question. What's my role in keeping this problem in place. Oh, we because you always have a role. Absolutely. It might be an active role or it might be a passive role. I'm not doing what I need to be doing, or it might be I am doing, I'm doing, but, but we always have a role. And if we could just discipline ourselves to ask that question. What's my role in keeping this problem in place. Well, my role is, I'm not telling anybody no. And so I'm, I'm, I keep saying yes, and so I'm overwhelmed. That's my role. What's my role. Well, my role is, I'm not telling people the truth. I'm not being honest and saying what's really true for me. And so I keep living with this anxiety. That's my role. I mean, on and on we could go giving examples of that. But the question is workplace wherever so family systems it's called family systems, but it applies to any system. It's called emotional systems. So any all emotional systems are just alike. And by the way, wherever there's people there's emotion. Well now. Yeah, wherever there's people there's emotion. So, so we're, we're so recognized we are all in multiple emotional systems. Yes. Dr. Shuman, you said something I'd like to highlight when you talked about those those patterns and doing the same thing we've already done. And in one way, and you say, my question first comes up was how do we have that? How do we get out of the cycle? Right. And the one coin term we use is you change the dance. Right. I've been dancing this way the whole time. Right. I got to change the dance. Right. Got to change. So if so in my case, if I'm not speaking up for myself, if not, if I'm not being authentic. And saying what's on my heart, then I get the same backlash. I get the same. And so I choose to change the dance and speak up for myself. Right. At the right time, at the right moment, with the right honor and respect that the Lord only gives me. Somebody gets around here. Yeah. And Akima, I'm glad you brought that up about about changing the dance. So, so here's another idea to hold group. When we start to work on ourselves, we will change the dance. So you'll change the dance at work, you'll change the dance in your relationship with the significant other people in your, you'll change the dance with your parents. If your parents are still around with your siblings. And here's the problem with changing the dance. When you change the dance, you start stepping on toes. Okay. So recognize, hey, wait, I'm doing good here. I'm, I'm working on my anxiety. I'm changing the dance. I'm showing up different. Yeah. And guess what, and some others aren't going to like it. And what they're, and you know what they want, they want you back in the old familiar dance. So they're going to try to get you back into that old familiar dance. Why? Because, because changing the dance makes them anxious. Stay the same. Because now we've changed the dance. You used to be this way. I'm sorry, Kim, you used to be that way. Now you're changing. This is a, this is a good segue into a question we have from one of our faith leaders, but before I get into her question, I just want to encourage everybody to use the chat box. Because you're sending those questions to me and I would love to be able to offer those to our guests. So please use that chat box and, and ask me some questions, but one of our faith leaders asked. Okay, so based on what you just said, so you're going to change the dance, but a faith leader has a unique role. So how do they manage self care, self truth, and then their responsibility and role of deferring to the needs of others. Very good question. Yeah. So. Yeah, that's a great question. Really great question and it's, and it's multi layer. All right. So let me start with the thing I'm thinking about most and here's another one of my phrases. Okay. We are responsible to others to love them well. Yes, yes, yes. We are not responsible for others to take care of them. And I wish I'd known that 2530 years ago. I mean, I would have been a better pastor. But but I didn't. And, and as a result, so let me say, and I've burnt out. Yeah. And, and the reason I experienced burnout out burnt out and I quit. And the reason I experienced burnout was because I was taking responsibility for the feelings of all of my congregation. I thought, okay, I mean, I would never say it. And even when I said it, even if I said it, I wouldn't have believed I was doing it. What I really was doing, if you if you just get blunt and honest is, I felt like it was my responsibility to keep everybody happy. Yeah. Yes. And that's an impossibility I don't care if you have 10 or 10,000. Yeah, it's just impossible. And so learning, I think one of the first things that I would encourage people. Anyway, if it's a pastoral leader, I want to recommend an excellent book if I could do that mad do that here. There, there's a book called when all else fails. Great. And it's by a guy named Wayne men King, M E N K I N G men King. And, and it helps for you that are pastoral leaders apply family systems principles to pastoral leadership. I mean, that's what the books about a little paperback. It's pretty simple. I would encourage you to read it. But, but the key principle in that is learning that we are not responsible for the, for the happiness or well being, or the anxiety of other people. So, so let me let me use that phrase so so I learned out of my first formation. I'm not in my awareness, but, but, but I learned, I'm responsible for my father's anxiety. And so therefore I've got to work 10 times as hard because I've got I've got to make sure the environment stays calm, because when my father gets anxious, I get hurt. And so then I took that into pastoral ministry as a as a local church pastor, and I felt like okay I've got to make sure everybody in my organization. If you're not a church leader, take it into any organization. I'm responsible for keeping everybody, all the anxiety down here. I've got I'm responsible for keeping my bosses anxiety down. No, I'm not. I'm responsible for my job description. I'm responsible for loving that person as well as I can love them, and I'm responsible then for myself, but that's all I'm responsible for. For me, that's a huge piece, whether we're talking job family holidays, whatever, I'm not responsible for everybody else's anxiety. And I didn't get, but maybe a little bit excited there so I better get calm and let a team of talk. You did absolutely wonderful, but no feeling responsible for other people though, really. I am an only child I did say that right on child of a hard working, beautiful woman, and, and by by by profession I'm a registered nurse. So who takes care of people all day who gets paid to take care of people. I have a license by the state of Texas. I'm registered by the state of Texas as a registered nurse. They pay me good money to take care of people, but learning to to let go, or not take care of when it's not yours. You be pointed out, I think we can say it 1000 times here, being responsible to people. I'm responsible to be nice, kind, caring, consider it. I'm responsible to help out. If I put it on my job, I'm responsible to pass medications on time in time get it done. I'm responsible to the leader on my job that I am right take care of my business do but I'm responsible. And how you feel about it. You thought I should have done this way versus that way, or, or, or, or, I just I just don't like this whole project that the whole company is working on that that's, I can't be responsible for that. I can't really, it is our, our objective by our CEO, and we have a job to do right, but I don't have to make everybody comfortable about that. That's not not me. Not me. Right. What is my role in this. What is my role to this whole piece to this whole puzzle. Very important and very key. I came out, I think, and we kind of touched on this a couple days ago that for me personally, I didn't realize what the art of nursing really was until I married my husband and he has an aunt who has like three postdocs in nursing and I was like, Well, if you have three postdocs and nursing aren't you a doctor how are you, how are you and still a nurse I don't understand. And she said no no no Kim. Nursing is the art of healing. And so just listening to you talk right now and makes me think that that is such a beautiful analogy for what y'all are talking about because as a nurse, you can't, you can't make somebody heal. Nothing has to happen on your own right, but you can give them the tools you can help them. And a lot of times the stuff you have to do as a nurse does not feel good for the other person, but you know that you have to do it to help them heal. And I think that idea of the art of healing that nurses give us is a great analogy for what we all have to do and helping each other cope with our own anxiety, right. You can't heal for them, but you can't heal for them. I can't get out and change anyone's diet I can't eat for him. Right. I can't I can't go to yoga forums they can de stress. Right. I can't I can't take the medication for him. I can't do anything for that. But the art of healing I love that when you first brought it to me and that's exactly what it is right. We create a foundation and an environment that is healthy. That is neutral. So the person can heal. I mean our bodies were created wonderfully and with the gift of science and with the gift of healing. They're the healing can take place. So absolutely I love that that terminology. Thank you for that. Well, and we, I don't want to run out of time before we get to your last 10 suggestions. Dr Schuman you gave us some great suggestions on managing our anxiety and you've touched on number four, a lot, which is taking responsibility for yourself. But can you bring up just point out some of your favorites out of this list because we don't want to we don't want to pass those up before our time. Well, they're really all important but let me highlight number seven, because one of the reasons for our anxiety and if you don't have the sheet in front of you here's what number seven is refused to make up a story in your head about what the other motives are. Oh my goodness. Yeah. And we talked about how that Okay, the biggest trigger for this, at least in my family is what I like to call intergenerational texting. So for whatever reason, the three matriarchs in my family who are all in their 70s, they swear they don't get text messages. All the cousins were like, yes, you did it's on the thread just look Mimi look Nana look you know and this intergenerational texting. Next thing you know Nana is sitting there imagining why she didn't know about this and so she's got this story in her head so I just want to caution everybody about intergenerational testing. This is a huge trigger for this one right here. A lot of anxiety gets generated group because we we we invent a story in our head and are convinced it's true. Now it may be true, but it also may not be true. It's about other people's motives or it's about what other people what happens to other people's for me, where this one shows up is with my two adult daughters they're both grown adults they've been in the, in the adult world for a good long long while now, but but daddy still worries about them. And when I don't hear from them in a certain amount of time that you know is my expectation of them, then what do I do, I make up a story in my head about what's going on. Oh, I know oh my gosh, they've had an accident oh my gosh this happened or that and I make up this story. So one of the ways to manage anxiety is to gather the facts and stick with the facts. Don't make up a story. Yes. Easier said than done very recently, very recently in my cut off family. I have an auntie who I love and she she is my aunt right and she just disappeared off the family text she disappeared off the face of family text and changed her phone number. Oh, my God. Really. And so if I may enter into that's that's some serious cut off right here. I can't even change your number. I can't even call it that right because I don't want to make up a story as to why but there were a lot of stories circulating between my mom, who I honor is on this call my mom my aunties and some other people. Well, maybe she's doing this and then she said, I just, you know, we can't we can't guess that now that's not fair. Now what was here's the other side of that and so I did a lot of that conversation to try and calm everything down. We're not going to cut off because we've been cut off. We're just going to give it time. Right. And we're not going to come. Well, she's probably mad because I said this and I said that and I can tell them and it goes on. Kim, I promise you your Nana, your Mimi, I could probably name my mom and her sister is the same if you will. But it does happen. And that was that's a very recent by the way she has resurfaced kind of sort of in around Thanksgiving time we were all I was ecstatic to hear from her, but nonetheless she's fine. She said she needed to pray in here. Okay. That's fantastic. Yes, that's great. I have a question from the audience. I think this is great. How do we remove our own emotional response to other people who we see harming themselves through the family dynamics when we see other people in our family on that gerber wheel of self harm emotional harm. How do we, you know, separate ourselves from that or do we. Yeah. That's a great question. So within family systems there's there's a term called fusion. And with the people we love we are we are fused to. Okay, which, which means. So what it means is we can work in practice to be differentiated to not take responsibility, but there's going to be an element that leaks into our lives. Okay, especially with people that we don't that we really love who who are making horrible choices. If they are adults, who, who are fully functioning adults. I think the challenge becomes, again, I want to love them well. And so I asked the question what does loving them well look like, but I'm not responsible for them. And I can't manipulate them. I can't control them. I can't make the decisions for them. Those are theirs to make, even when I know they're making horrible choices. And, and, and again, I mean, for me, the real world is my adult daughter. So what happens when one of my adult daughters is making choices that are not healthy and not helpful. I want to rush in. I want to be controlling daddy. Right. I want to fix it for her. That won't help. And so, so it brings up a completely and we're out of time so we can't go here, but it brings up completely. Another idea, which is one of the ways we manage our anxiety is by increasing our, our own tolerance for emotional discomfort within ourselves and within the people we love. So one author puts it this way there's a difference between short term hurt and long term harm. Okay, so, so one of the one one of the practice feels for me is can I increase my tolerance for my own emotional discomfort. So I know my daughter struggling and I'm just using that as an example both my daughters are doing great. But if one of my daughters, I know they're struggling and I have to increase my own emotional tolerance for the anxiety to get stirred up in me. Because I know they're anxious to. And so I allow them to struggle and and here's here's the big piece of that folks. If I rush in and fix it, they don't grow. Yeah, you see when if I can increase my own emotional tolerance, whether that's at work or in a congregation or where it was within my family, I allow people I allow the other person to grow I give them room to blossom. And guess what when, because what am I doing I'm forcing them to begin to take responsibility for themselves. And when people learn and begin even when they're forced to to have to I've got to take responsibility for myself, they begin to grow up. That's very good. That's very good I like to I thought it was real good. You know, because we've had so many conversations over this, but when you when you allow the other person to grow, then they get to feel that feeling. They get to feel when they are about to lose control before you take over from them. They get to feel what it's like to to be saddened or or to be almost and depressed. What does that feel like so that I can change my own behavior, but allowing the other person room to grow. It's okay if other people have emotions and we don't have to rescue them out of there. Can we can go on this for another 30 minutes or so I'm going to cut it off right there though. It is very important go for it. But but Akima what that is so there was something that we had thought about talking about and I want to mention it here because you're you're getting around it is the physiological effects. Yes. Why don't you. That's where I was going to go before I cut it off so thank you for bringing that back around and understanding what that looks like inside of our bodies right so a lot of people say well I'm not anxious. I'm I'm nice and calm I'm not anxious but they're walking out the door away from the group right I'm not anxious I'm not calm or they're cutting off or cussing out or going off and you know flipping the bird or honking real hard and people cut him up. What does anxiety look like right for me when I know I'm getting anxious because I get these butterflies in my stomach and this pressure in my chest. That's when I know the situation I'm in is about to make me do what I normally do when I'm in a situation which is for me I've been very transparent. I cut off. Right. I will shut down cut off. Give me a minute now what I've done recently though. If I can. I can come back in five minutes before it's gone. I wouldn't hear it for it again but physiologically so respiratory system your respiratory you start breathing right heavy some people start breathing heavy. I've heard people say and this is where your nerves come in they feel the hair standing up on the back of their neck. Right. Heart palpitations you can literally feel your heart pounding out of your chest. I've been saying something that you don't agree with or they're very disappointing and you feel a pounding on your chest and your respirations get really short. And you don't quite know that you sweaty palms and sweaty hands all those but your body responds before your mouth even opens up. And when I'm teaching my children and I say well what is your response when I teach anxiety. Well I just ran away. I just that just ran away. No that's the end effect. What happened before you ran away. And so now they're very conscious about what happens before I react what happened before I overcompensate. I cut off a distance I overrun the travel track triangle tell somebody else of the story. Oh, my stomach starts getting queasy mom. And that's the point we need to change the dance make a different decision. I've always thought that it feels like someone I've said this before it feels like somebody squirted a limit in my stomach or like inside my chest you know it's just that that that sour tingly feeling and it feels like there's a lemon exploding inside my tummy. And I think this is a good you know we've only got four minutes and Dr Schumann you know you've got number 10 here. Yeah, that's where I was going and think, can you take us out with that. Absolutely. Yeah. And what I would like to say group, I say back to the feeling, the physiological feeling. That's the early warning system that your body is telling you, you're about to do what you always do when you get. Yeah. So if you can recognize and figure out, how do you feel physically when you get anxious. And then that enables you to do something different, and to do something different is a is a simple little formula, three things. So when you get anxious at work at church at home with your family. The first thing to do is stop. Just don't do what you've always done. In the, in the movie Alice in Wonderland, I, I think I quoted the right movie. There's a little, there's a little rabbit, and the little rabbit has a saying, don't just do something. Stand there. If you're anxious, don't just do something, stand there. If you do nothing, that's better than what you always do. Okay, so stopping yourself is about recognizing the way you feel physically and just stopping. Then the second word is calm, stop calm. How do I calm take a few deep breaths. Take a break, walk to the goat, go to the restroom. Sometimes, you know, when I'm with my family, I need more than just going to the restroom, I need to go to the grocery store. I mean, I need 15 minutes, and, but, but, so I take responsibility for myself, and I do what I need to do to calm myself I go for a walk outside let me just go for a walk. Okay, I'm not changing the other people I'm changing me by reducing my own anxiety, and, and calming myself, and then the third word is think, and, and the think is about. Okay, so when we get anxious, we get stupid. We're not even going to go into all the science of that but we get stupid. We just, we quit listening and when we quit thinking. So what I want to do is I want to get the thinking part of my brain going again. And one of the ways to do that and I know we were in our last minute. So y'all better listen a little faster. Okay, because I got more to say. When thinking is about how do I want to show up. And one of the suggestions that I mentioned in the material is write yourself a guiding principle, while you're calm about how you want to show up at the Christmas Party, or with your family, or at the outing you're going to, and, and just a short little small. This is how I want to show up and the thinking is reminding yourself of your guiding principle about hey this is how I determined when I was calm how I wouldn't show up at this meeting. Done. Yay. Thank you so much, both of you. This has been fun. I have had a great time talking to you and I know I could keep going and going because y'all are just a breath of fresh air and you're energizing and full of great ideas so thank you both so so much. I just also want to thank everyone in our audience for being with us today please stay tuned to Interfaith Ministries go to our website and find out when our next series of vital conversations will be happening in 2022. And I just want to thank Sitco Petroleum Corporation for sponsoring this entire series that we've had so thank you very much. And remember this discussion and all the others that we've had prior to today are on the Interfaith Ministries website under our Interfaith Relations and Community Partnerships page. Again, we have lots of things that we have opportunities for you to get involved in with our Afghan refugees holiday bags for meals on wheels. And also we have a lot of job openings right now at Interfaith Ministries, particularly with our refugees as we welcome our newest neighbors to Houston. And all of our friends in the audience who are of the Jewish faith happy Hanukkah and thank you everyone once again have a wonderful and less anxious day.