 Karen Swizek is the founder and owner of Make in the Bacon. It began as a blog in 2012. She has partnered with brands such as Meridian Credit Union, Minted.com, Camtech, and Supperworks for Influencer Marketing Campaigns. In 2017, Make in the Bacon evolved into a consulting, auditing, training services company for blogging, WordPress, and social media. She has facilitated numerous business blogging strategy workshops within the greater Toronto area. Karen is also a part-time instructor at Sheridan College for their blogging for fun and profit course and their effective strategies for social media courses. In her spare time, she enjoys reading and teaching group fitness classes several times a week. So welcome. Thank you. Good morning, everyone. Can everyone hear me OK? Just want to make sure, because I actually have a soft spoken voice, but I will try to project. So thank you so much for choosing to attend my talk, How Starting a Blog Changed My Life. So I know it kind of sounds like a cheesy after-school special, but really it has changed my life a couple times for the better. And it may not necessarily be what you think. So just to kind of give you a little bit of foreshadowing, it's very different from what you might expect. I'm not a full-time blogger, so I'm not like a social media influencer or anything like that. So without further ado, let's get started. So if you haven't searched me online, you're probably wondering, who am I? Who is this person? Why is she speaking at WordCamp? So I'd like to share with you who I was before I started blogging. So I have a degree in biochemistry from the University of Waterloo. I've gone through multiple jobs, multiple careers, so pretty much anything from project management to personal training. I even did a brief stint working in retail. I've applied to grad school twice. At one point, I thought I wanted to be a physiotherapist. And then another point, I thought I wanted to do a master's in food science, but I actually didn't end up doing either of those things. So just to let you know, I'm not even using my degree. I consider it to be an expensive piece of artwork hanging in my parents' living room. So I've been unemployed several times, rather than having a job set up for the next little bit. I usually spent the time being unemployed just trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. So during that time, which spanned over almost 10 years, I was very confused, frustrated and lost. I didn't know what I was doing, and it felt like everyone around me, my peers, my friends and family, they were kind of on this upward trajectory. So their lives were getting into place. They were getting promoted in their jobs. Whereas I felt nothing that I did was working out according to plan. So I felt I had started over several times. And I always like to tell people that instead of climbing the corporate ladder, I feel that my career is more like a rock climbing wall. So if anybody has actually tried of 30 years and collected their pension, and it's all good. And so initially I thought it was good, but I eventually fell back into the same pattern of being lost, frustrated and confused. So why I actually started blogging was because I was looking for ways to help fund my wedding. So I was searching how to make money, and starting a blog was actually one of the results. So it really wasn't actually to start writing, which is more like, how can I make some money? However, so I started a personal finance blog called Make in the Bacon. And a lot of the times I get asked, well, how did you come up with that name? And to be honest, I have no idea. I don't even remember, but all I knew was that I liked the name. It stuck and it was fun. And yeah, so I started it in 2012. And I felt that there was a need for more people to discuss the importance of creating multiple streams of income, saving for a rainy day, because a lot of the conversations I was having with people was that they seemed either very afraid of money, they didn't want to talk about money, or they seed, or excuse me, they saw money as being a bad thing, which in fact, we know it's not, it can be used as a tool and can help provide freedom and flexibility. So what actually ended up happening was that I didn't make money right away, but it ended up being a really fun hobby, so I really enjoyed blogging. And I found that I was able to develop some new skills, and it became a creative outlet to help tolerate a job that was very boring and repetitive. So I had a creative childhood. Growing up, I was very creative. I wrote a lot of poems and stories, did all those things like to doodle and draw and do lettering. However, I was never encouraged to take these things seriously. I also did well in English class. And then my OEC English teacher assumed that I was going to pursue a degree in writing or something related. However, I was led to believe that pursuing a degree in science, engineering, medicine would provide better career opportunities. So I was on that path where you know, go to get good grades, go to school, get a good job, and you're set for life. So even though I mentioned I have a biochemistry degree, I actually enrolled in engineering first. So I didn't do so well in engineering, and it was basically a combination of being away from home for the first time, not getting along with my roommate, having a crazy workload, and having trouble making friends. So it was just kind of this really massive, big stress ball. And then so after not doing so well in engineering, I kind of felt like in a panic to add more fuel to the fire, my parents were panicking for me. So I distinctly remember my mom saying, like, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? And then I'm like, I don't know. It's like, what are you gonna do? I'm like, I don't know, I'll go into science. So really it was just kind of a panic going into science. And in hindsight, when I think about it, I probably should have just taken some time off of school or even earlier than that, probably have taken a gap year between high school and engineering. Because I feel at such a young age, it's really hard to figure out what you wanna do. We know, especially in university, it's a lot about the theory. I mean, even though I did a co-op program, I had some experience working in the lab, I still felt it wasn't the same. And it wasn't until I was actually in the real world, going through several jobs that I realized what I wanted to do and then what I didn't want to do. So all I knew was that I didn't wanna do any research. So the blog brought back creativity into my life. So as I had mentioned earlier, as a kid I like to write poems and stories and I found that blog reckoned my love for writing. And so many years had passed where I was not really doing anything creative. And blogging was a way for me to express my thoughts and feelings. And then I'm also an introvert, so I feel I'm better at expressing myself through the written word versus speaking. So blogging is not just about the writing I found I had developed a lot of skills. So I was continuously improving my communication skills. I was using social media to network and market my blog and business. And when you think about your blog can eventually become a business where you can be presented with business opportunities. So you're thinking about things such as negotiating rates, what are the terms of how you're gonna get paid? Like signing contracts. So I did a lot of networking online, learned how to develop an online presence, how to build the brand. And as I mentioned, it felt like I was running a side business. I learned about creating managing content. And I guess one of the most important skills since we're at WordCamp was learned how to use WordPress. And it was quite interesting back in 2012. So I just threw it out there, asked people what can I use to blog? Like how would I start a blog? And really the unanimous answer was WordPress. I don't even recall anybody mentioning Squarespace or Wix at the time. To be honest, I'm not sure whether or not they existed at that time, but maybe they weren't as popular as they are now. So learned a bit about WordPress, how to use it as a content management system, learned about what themes are, how to choose a theme, plugins, and then what certain plugins you should use. But of course, it wasn't all sunshine and roses. So I made a lot, lot of mistakes. So I'd like to share with you some things that I did wrong or I didn't do right away. So I was actually anonymous for several years and it was one of those things where I was scared because I was working for the government. But even though I wasn't breaking any rules in their social media policy and what I was blogging about personal finance had nothing to do with working for the government. I worked in food inspection. So as you can see, there were two very different categories. But again, I was very afraid that people would be very critical of my opinion and they'd be wondering like, what is she talking about? Why is she talking about this? So even my friends and family, they didn't know about it except for my sister and boyfriend at the time. So I was anonymous for about, I think almost four years. And then I had really, really ugly stock photos. So this was before I knew about Unsplash. And I wasn't consistent with posting. And when I say when I wasn't consistent, I mean, I was not inconsistent. So there'd be one week where I'd post one or two times and then several months would go by and then I would post again. Even though I was on social media, I wasn't even really promoting my content that much. I had this idea that, okay, I published a post, everyone's gonna see it, they're all going to come when we know that is not necessarily the case when you're starting a blog for the first time. And for another strange reason, I thought I didn't need any help and I thought I could figure everything out on my own. And we know that's true in a sense, thanks to Google and YouTube. But again, you have to think about what is your time worth to you? Do you wanna spend hours upon hours googling everything or do you wanna get some of those hours back and just ask somebody to help you? Okay, so even more things I did wrong and didn't do right away. So I didn't have any kind of focus. I claimed to be a personal finance blog but if you were to go back way, way back into my archives, I actually blogged about pretty much anything and everything. There was one post where I blogged about Costco, shopping at Costco. And then there was another one where I blogged about travel. I blogged about relationships. I blogged about careers. So it wasn't specifically about personal finance. As I mentioned, wasn't that active on social media right away? And I didn't even do a lot of in-person networking either which can be very helpful too if you have a blog. And I wish I had a screenshot to show you guys how ugly my first site really was. So I'm sure the theme suburbia is completely different now but back when I first started, it was very ugly. This kind of reminds me of some like old school wallpapers like yellow and just not very pretty. So not only that, I really didn't put in the time and the effort. So I was more focused on trying to build a career at my full-time position which kind of makes sense. So I felt like I had too many things on the go and I really wasn't planning on taking the blog seriously until a few years after working at my full-time job. So it was never a priority. So I just want to talk about how it actually changed my life for the first time. So with my government job, not only was it very boring and repetitive, it was getting to the point where I wanted to quit my job every day. So I'm not sure if anybody has ever had that feeling when they're just basically looking at the clock every hour, so that was me. Not only that, I actually started my job every day at 6.30 a.m. 6.30 a.m., so guess what time I woke up? At 5 a.m., so it was just basically me and the truck drivers on the road. And during my time there, I felt like I had not gained any new skills. I was not being challenged. My efforts at the government agency, they were not paying off, so what I tried to do was I joined health and safety committees, I joined a career committee for young employees at the government, I even created and facilitated a workshop. I had numerous interviews with upper management and I did a lot of job shadowing to figure out what I wanted to do. So when I realized nothing was changing despite my efforts, I decided to make a couple of decisions that I would put more effort into building the blog. So as I mentioned, not being consistent, if I had a dollar for every time I quit the blog, I probably would have had a good lump sum in my bank account now because I had actually quit the blog a numerous amount of times and then in 2015 I made the conscious decision actually kind of flipping the switch and deciding I'm gonna actually put effort into this. I'm gonna almost treat it as a part-time job, like schedule time on evenings and weekends, even during my lunch break to do whatever I can to work on the blog. And then I made another decision to leave the government agency entirely. So through WordPress I discovered HTML and CSS and then at one point I thought I wanted to be a web designer or a web developer. So I took some workshops and a part-time intro to web development course and there was even one point where I was actually dropping between eight to 10K for those six to eight week developer boot camps and like, okay, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna be a coder. But then I decided that that wasn't the path for me. I still ended up going to start-up and tech-related networking events just because I was really fascinated by the culture and I just wanted to be a part of it. But I found it actually difficult to network and maybe it was because I wasn't portraying myself as someone who had started a blog and had all these skills, but more so as someone who was a government worker and telling everybody I just want to get out of the government. So I used those skills that I had gained from the blog and actually put them onto my resume and then applied to start-up. So not necessarily for coding jobs but for things that were related to the start-up. So such as community management, product management and things like that. And then finally after applying for, I can't remember how many jobs I was offered a job as a business analyst at a start-up in Toronto. And this was such a turning point because I still remember that specific moment when I called my husband and I found out I told him I had got the job because for the first time in a very long time I was crying but it was not out of frustration or depression but it was actually more tears out of happiness. And of course I took it because I was hungry for challenge, I was hungry for the change. I was well aware that I was leaving a steady job with pension, with benefits, a lot of vacation. And of course I was met with a lot of criticism from my colleagues. So people were saying like, oh, it was too risky, we were still in a recession. But again, these were people who were risk adverse and they had been with the government for 20, 25 years. So really for them it was easy street. So they only had to work a few more years and then they could collect their pension. Whereas me, I was in a different boat. I still had another 25 to 30 years and I couldn't even imagine myself staying there for another two years. So not only leaving that steady job, I took a huge pay cut but eventually I made significantly more than my government job. So it's interesting to note that at the government I was one of the youngest employees. But when I joined the startup I was one of the oldest employees. So the CEO was 24 years old so it was just kind of interesting to think what was I doing with my life when I was 24 years old? Definitely not running a company. So at my position I had to learn on the fly. I was constantly thrown into the fire. Every day it felt like it was something new, often a challenge. And it was an insane learning curve. So this was a business analyst job. So being on the tech team but then also communicating to the business team as well. So I had multiple hats in addition to being that liaison I was responsible for purchasing servers, setting up servers, maintaining the servers. I'm trying to keep that uptime of 100%. And it was just crazy to think having a degree in biochemistry and no formal tech experience, no experience working at a startup and doing what I did there. Okay, so the blog actually ended up changing my life a second time. So unfortunately we got acquired by a larger company and I was let go in the beginning of 2017. So there was that brief period of time where I looked at nine to five jobs and then I thought, oh, okay, now I'm more marketable. I have a set of new skills. Why don't I just look for another nine to five job? And the thought was, I'll have a steady paycheck and I'll just continue to work on my blog on the side. So instead I decided to dedicate the majority of my time to the blog and use it as an online resource. So based on the skills learned from blogging, I decided to create a consulting business. So while I was working the startup, I was kind of already in the process of trying to figure out how I wanted to create a business from it. So it's funny because instead of telling people that I took the leap, because you always hear people saying, I took a leap, I lost my full-time job. Me, I just like to say, I had a bit of a head start so I was like pushed. So as of right now, I teach and advise small business owners on using blogging and social media for their business. But of course, again, not all sunshine and roses because we know it never is. So again, I was met with a lot of doubt and criticism, especially from my family because they weren't even sure and there was this misconception that, you know, blogging was still a hobby. It was only meant for millennials. You just sit around your pajamas all day blogging. So all of these crazy ideas and like who uses a blog? And I think before I explained it to my parents, they were like, what's a blog or what are you doing? And also for transparency sake, you know, I was not one of those bloggers who was making a full-time income or anywhere close to that. And another thing too, not having a business background, I quickly learned how different and how much more difficult it is to run a business for using your skills. And then even as I started to network and tell people about my consulting business, there were a lot of naysayers out there who didn't believe that having an online presence was necessary in this day and age that you should only network in person. And I believe, you know, that doesn't make any sense because the two can work together because when you think about it, the people you meet say, for instance here, you can stay connected with them on Twitter or on LinkedIn or vice versa. You can ask on Twitter who's attending WordCamp, you know, using that hashtag. And then if people answer, you can start a conversation with them prior and then eventually, you know, meet up at the event. So a lot of people didn't believe, you know, again, similar to what my parents said, oh, like, you know, social media, it's only for the millennials, it can't help my business, it doesn't work. And then I also noticed that many people were charging significantly less to write posts, hence devaluing the work and which is why I decided to focus more on teaching people how to blog instead. And then also with the growing popularity of video, people think that blogging is dead, which doesn't make sense because when you think about it, people consume content in different ways. They'll listen to podcasts, they'll watch videos and then when people, as far as I know, people still read. So they would look at, you know, articles on the internet. And I think it really depends on what type of information you're portraying because some things can be better displayed as a video whereas some things are probably better displayed as a blog post. Okay, so what happened after that? As mentioned in the brief introduction by Kathy, I am an instructor shared in college for their blogging and social media course. And so I also teach blogging workshops within the Greater Toronto area, so I've taught them in Oakville and Toronto and in Burlington. I've been a keynote speaker, workshop facilitator and panel moderator at a conference. I'm going to be the co-author on two books that are publishing in 2020. And then more recently, I signed on to be the lead author on a book project that will be publishing around late 2020, early 2021. So I've talked about my story on a couple of podcasts. And I'll actually be launching a podcast too, just to share with you guys next month, hopefully next month. It's called the Bacon Bits and Bites podcast. And of course, now I am a speaker at WordCamp Hamilton and where I continue to share my story with all of you. So I had attended WordCamp Hamilton about three years ago as an attendee. And I have never imagined I would be speaking at one three years later. And in all honesty, based on everything that I've shared with you guys, I never expected I'd be where I am today. I honestly thought when I was in the government, I'd be working there for 25, 30 years. And this is kind of based on why I believe that you need to create content or you should look into creating content and sharing it. So what are the benefits of creating content? And when you think about it, people are constantly consuming content. We crave content. So I'm sure pretty much everyone here has a smartphone and they're either looking at it now or they look at it during their commute on your lunch break. You're just looking through your social media feeds, just scrolling, reading, reading things while waiting at the dentist, at the airport. And you never know who is reading, watching or listening to your content. And when you think about it, they may be waiting for the right time to reach out to you. It can start a conversation and lead to connections or opportunities. So say if you post something online, it can catch the attention of someone. They can start following you. Maybe it can lead to an online connection. Maybe then even eventually a video call, a phone call, a meeting in person or maybe then a project. So if you forget everything else that I mentioned today, I want you to think about starting that passion project and find something you're passionate about. And I know maybe some of you might be thinking like, oh, okay, well, that's easier said than done. How do I find something? Like, I don't know what I'm passionate about. So here are some questions that I think would be good to ask yourself. What do you enjoy doing in your spare time? What did you enjoy doing when you were growing up? And what have you always wanted to try? Why not learn a new skill? So again, thanks to the internet, we can also look into taking courses, webinars, workshops online, if you can't make the commitment to attend an in-person workshop, take up a hobby, attend conferences, meetups. Now don't be afraid to make new connections and go for coffee dates. So a couple of apps that I use on my phone for networking is the Shaper app, which I consider it to be like Tinder for business. So you're basically just swiping right the people who you'd like to have a coffee with. And then also there's another one called Bumblebiz. So I feel I've made a few decent connections through the Shaper app, but I've yet to connect with somebody through Bumblebiz. So think about also tapping into your network, use your LinkedIn connections, and ask questions, seek answers. So how else can you discover your passion? Reading books, reading blogs. What about bullet journaling? Writing down ideas, just jotting down things. What are your goals? Listening to podcasts, audio books, or if you prefer to watch things, why not check out some TED Talks or YouTube videos? So I'd like to share a few of my recommendations. So some books I've enjoyed reading, The One Thing by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan. Tools of Titans by Tim Ferriss. It's a lot of great interviews with famous people, high achievers, blogs such as pro blogger, seagull work, those first two blogs are mainly like blogs about blogging, digital marketing, online income. And the last one gave me back my five bucks was actually the first blog I came across when I was searching how to make money online at the time. So yeah, she's a blogger based in Vancouver where she just blogs, shares about her income, investing advice and things like that. The personal finance one? Oh yeah, give me back my five bucks. Yeah, it's one of my favorites. It's not like, has a lot of heavy jargon with investing. It's just very down to earth, easy stuff, what you can do to save money. Basic steps if you want to start investing on your own. So going back to writing, if you're interested in bullet journaling, and I just recently started bullet journaling because I found I had too many notebooks. I had like an actual notebook for notes on books. So it was kind of like getting to the point where I couldn't remember which book I had that note, but having it in one master book, it definitely helped. So if you're interested in that, trying the bullet journal by Ryder Carroll, Productively Planner, and then some podcasts as well. So the first one has to do with more money mindset. The second one has to do with where, Reed Hoffman, the founder of LinkedIn, he interviews people who have successfully scaled their business. So interview with the founder of Airbnb, Marcus Zuckerberg of Facebook. And then if you like TED Talks, to be honest, I don't really watch TED Talks. This was the only one, but this one's an interesting one why some of us don't have one true calling. This is the speaker, she talks about multi-potential lights. So it's basically how a lot of people don't have just one thing, they don't do one thing for the rest of their lives, but how they combine several interests together. So I want to talk about the benefits of being creative. It gives you time and space to think, helps to de-stress, and reduce anxiety. So a quote, unused creativity is not benign. It metastasizes, it turns into grief, rage, judgment, sorrow, and shame. We are creative beings, we are, by nature, creative. And so why creativity is necessary? And here are some facts that I found, I'll do some research. It's the single most important skill in the world. It's say it's a number one factor for future success. And it's related to nine of the top 10 skills that global executive say is essential for 2020 and beyond. So create something and share it. Just write something and share it online. Or if you want to create something, take a picture of it and share it. And of course, thanks to the internet, it can reach a wider amount of people online. So don't be afraid to share your creation with the world. So it's okay if it's not perfect, done is better than perfect. So putting out the first version, it may not be the best, but you know if you keep on doing it, you will get better. Because also, when you think about it, if you don't share anything, how will people know it exists? So where you can share? Obviously on social media. Bayhance is an online platform where you can showcase and discover work. So if you like to write medium or a LinkedIn publishing platform, hit record. So this platform was actually founded by Joseph Gordon-Levitt. If anybody's familiar from Third Rock from the Sun, things also in Inception. So it's an online community where basically you can post projects that you have and find people to collaborate on arts and media projects together. So the focus isn't necessarily just promote your own work, but it's really more to find people to work with. So say if you're looking for somebody, I need help publishing a book, I need help creating a film. So we share thoughts and ideas. I mean think about it, we are a sharing economy. So people will share things that they find to be useful. And then they also share things that they think will be useful to other people. Oops, did I miss one? Sorry. Okay, so we're a sharing economy. We've all known Uber, Airbnb, and then crowdfunding, co-working spaces, task rabbit. And when you think about it, that passion project could eventually be a source of income. And then it can lead to multiple sources of income. So ads on site isn't the only way connecting with other people through your content. And again, as I mentioned before, it can lead to partnerships and collaborations. So think about your online income streams, creating a store, resources, courses, affiliate marketing, or you have a skill you want to teach. This is what I've been doing is consulting services, creating workshops, pitching yourself to have paid speaking opportunities. So the thought possibilities are endless. So it actually is possible to do something you love and get paid for it. So I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. It does take a significant amount of persistence, time, and effort, but eventually it becomes worth it. And of course, don't believe the overnight success hype you see on social media. So don't compare your chapter one to somebody's chapter 21. So some key takeaways. Try and figure out what you're passionate about. Ask questions. Stay curious. And start that passion project. Share it. Because you never know what opportunities or people it could lead you to. Thank you. Are there any questions? Yes. Hi. Hi. It's a great time. Well, thank you. So I know and understand the value of blogging experience and making sure that not only something my day job, but that's a part of my workflow, but my personal blog has been really hard to make the time to make that a priority. So do you have any recommendations for creating the habits or workflows of maybe setting realistic expectations? Because then I'll set expectations, but then I won't meet them and then I kind of beat myself up about it and then just don't do it. Sure, yeah. So the question is if, you know, what are some tips and tricks for, I'm guessing like maintaining the workflow and creating consistency. So I can totally understand because as I mentioned, I was working for the government and blogging and then I was actually also teaching group fitness classes while I was doing that. So it felt like I was having three jobs. So what I found is that actually physically scheduling it, whether it was in my Google calendar or in my agenda, just writing down what I wanted to do. And I think even breaking down, because it can sound daunting, like, oh, I have to write this blog post. But I think even just breaking it down into little steps saying like, oh, on Monday, I'm gonna brainstorm ideas for the blog, maybe later on in the week, another step, I'm going to start a draft for the blog. Another step could be, okay, the following week, I'm gonna look for some images for the blog. So I feel, again, it's like that saying like, how do you eat an elephant? Just taking it one bite at a time. And I think to also, don't be so hard on yourself because there actually is a thing called blogger burnout where people, they feel the need, oh, I have to blog five times a week. But when you think about it, you're probably overwhelming your reader too. Oh, she's published five articles, I'm so behind. So I think giving yourself some time and space and just being realistic. So if you can only get out one blog post a week, that's fine, one every two weeks, whatever works best for you. So consistency can be really different for everybody. Just don't be like me and wait three months and then start blogging again. Any other questions? Yes. I'm wondering about your blogging in the financial world versus doing the courses and speaking and whatnot. Where are you seeing your income from more, from the blogging or from the other activities? That's a good question. So the question was where are you seeing your income? So when I first started blogging and personal finance, it was more so from the blog. So I did a lot of sponsored posts and had brand partnerships. But then when I pivoted and decided my niche was going to be more about blogging and social media, I decided that my blog would kind of be more of an educational platform so people would read and then eventually decide if they wanted to work with me or if they wanted to do an audit or if they wanted to do workshops. So as of right now, I've kind of steered away from doing sponsored posts and things like that. Anybody else? Yes. So I have a concept in mind that I'm excited about. I work full time and the thing that is holding me back I sort of feel like once I start, I'm worried that I'll get drawn in and have no life left. Or in order to have a life left, it will be sort of a half-hearted effort. So I'm just wondering if you have any comments? Okay, so the question is, I guess maintaining blog life balance, which is a good thing. You know what's interesting? This is just more so my opinion. I don't think I can really give you a black and white answer because when I first started, I think because I was so obsessed with the concept and writing, it became my life and I really enjoyed it. But at the same time too, I think the moment you start to feel burnout, it's probably a sign where you need to take a step back because the best way, like when you think about it, you can't force creativity. Like if it's not coming out, it's not coming out, so perhaps you need to take some time away from it and then you'll come back feeling refreshed. So I think you can balance the two, but again, it's just one of those things. How much effort do you want to put into it? Because unlike some of my colleagues, they have been blogging and also working full-time for like six years and now they're making a full-time effort. They really put in the effort as if they were working two full-time jobs. But I decided I wanted to focus on my career and just kind of leave it as a part-time job. So I don't think there's anything wrong with saying, if you just kind of want to dip your toe into the water and start off slowly and go from there. Yes? Yes. Yeah, that's a really good point. So the question, if I'm rewording it properly, is to look into, would it be better to look into actually creating the quality content first versus monetizing? Yes, yes, and yes, again, because I think a lot of the times now, I'm sure if you look on Pinterest, you'll see a ton of blogs posting, you know, how to make money online, how I made $5,000 in a month, like, what I did this, how to make money, how to make money, which is great because I know for a lot of people, eventually that's the goal. But when you think about it, you need to focus on the quality first and building the community because there is a lot of bad content out there. But at the same time, there's also a lot of good. And I think, you know, as a blogger, if you're starting a blog, you owe it to yourself and the community to provide decent content. Any other questions? Yes? Sorry, a lot of businesses tend to use blogs or the tool for SEO. So how did you sort of drive traffic to your site and how did you optimize your blog for SEO? So what I did mainly, to be honest, I didn't, oh sorry, the question was how businesses they end up using blogging now to drive traffic to their site and how I use SEO to help drive traffic. So for the most part, to be honest, when I first started a few years ago, I didn't really know anything about SEO. I was very scared. I'm like, what is this acronym? This sounds very scary. I'm gonna hold off on it for now. So really how I built my traffic was mainly through, you know, building community, social media, and then also doing a lot of guest posting as well. Because then when you think about it, if you're posting on somebody else's site, you're creating a link and then exposing yourself to a new audience and hopefully in turn, they will also promote it to their website. So I do a little bit of basic on-page SEO, nothing too crazy technical, and I know people stress the importance of keywords, keywords, but then when you also think about it too, you have to look at writing quality content as well. So really at the end of the day, I think it's the quality content that's what gets shared. Yes? Quality content, more and more now. So the good thing about focusing on quality or wanting to be both for us and for others is that you're really getting smarter and smarter. It's putting at most your potential, but really don't want to lose it. And there's a lot of potential. Yeah, definitely. So this is more of a great comment, by the way, just talking about how the Google algorithm now focuses on providing readers with better quality content. Oh, okay, so just going back into that, so the question is how you transition into paid speaking. I've only actually had one paid speaking opportunity, but I think doing things such as this, applying to speak at conferences, making sure that you can get either photos or video and then posting on your website. And another great way, I have it on my site where I have a page, so basically saying what I can speak about, where I've spoken type thing, and then inviting people to schedule a call with me if they're interested in having me as their speaker. So just putting it out there too. And I think showing some proof if you have it, and if not, then getting the proof. So I think that's all we have for now. Okay, so thank you so much for your questions. Of course, I'll be around and during lunchtime if you have any questions, feel free to reach out. Thank you.