 At the same time, like we was talking about the parole here, you basically saying, I did do it, I'm sorry. You know what I'm saying? I caused this pain to, you know, this person family. Right. Yada, yada, yada, or whatever, however they caught her shoot to it. You gotta do that just to look. You gotta do it just to look like something to get out. Make no mistake about it. And let me say this, and then just for the records before we go, I don't ever want to come across as downplaying this experience or downplaying the injustices that exist within our judicial system, within our criminal justice system. Yeah, we on boss talk one on one. Yeah, I seen that. I actually wrote that down. But that happened a lot though, don't it? Where people try to frame other people on other people's murder. That happens regularly. Yeah, yeah. They came up, I heard they came up with this investigation at the same time he died like the same week within the same, you know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, and that's crazy because the guy was Lee Page, that's who he was that they say, Robert Lee Page, that your dad had something to do with him dying. You know what I mean? They say a lot, but a lot of it is just speculation after someone passed, they're not here to defend themselves. So, you know, a lot of time they're trying to clear the books too, to say let's get these under the rug so we can get these cleared out of our books. But don't you still have to prove it though? You have to prove it. But you are locked up innocent, you are locked up innocent until you're proven guilty. Right. You feel me? Right. Yeah, so they could have held you in that five years until they proved it or they didn't, you know what I'm saying? That's real, that's so real. So you just never know, and you fighting an uphill battle when you dealing with these people and these law, and you dealing with Louisiana. And they don't want to let you out and say, I'm sorry, we should not go and say- And he sold your sliver. Right, and they're not going to say I'm sorry and they're going to find a way to keep you in even if they know that they're wrong because they're going to have to pay. Because you can come out and start a lawsuit on them. Just like I said with Mac, Mac knew he didn't do that. But you know, you done been in jail, so you know the parole hearing, like you basically got to say you did it, you got to show remorse, you know what I'm saying? Like when they convicted you- Yeah, I was convicted of manslaughter. And you, you had the, did you cop a plea? You had the- No. They gave you, the judge gave you. Yeah, I was convicted of it. You said, I'm innocent all the way to the end. All the way to the end. That's right, yeah. The jury, I was actually charged with murder. I was facing a life sentence. But the jury came back in their deliberation with a manslaughter verdict. And a manslaughter in Louisiana carries zero to 40. I was given 30. And- And you tried appealing and all of that? Yeah, I tried everything. He ended up going through the- Everything was denied. 21 years and I was pardoned by the governor, by Governor Edwards, so. Wow. Thank you, Governor Edwards. Thank you, Governor Edwards. But after all of that, one thing I wanted to know, because a lot of people, when you think about being wrongly convicted and that you are there, how angry were you when you were in prison? And how long did it take for you to get over that anger? Weird thing is, I probably was angry momentarily. Really? Momentarily. When I first got in that cell, there were a few things that I prayed for. It was a couple of things that I prayed for. And I'm not a big religious person, but I do pray what I have prayed. And I do. One of them, the main thing was that I didn't want to become black-hearted. I didn't want to become black-hearted. That was the main thing. So man, like, even if this man didn't do it, like, he probably had to do that. You know, just to see daylight again, like, to live or fight another day. Like, that really be people's situations. That's exactly how it be. You know, and that's horrible. That's very horrible when you didn't do something. You had to sit there, like, I cringe at the fact of Mac sitting there for 21 years and the way his demeanor is and how he's, when we interviewed him, he was so just poised and so forgiven. I never, like I said before, I'll say it every time. Interviewing Mac showed me what a real humble person is after going through 21 years of being locked up like that. He showed me too. Innocently. Innocently. Innocently. That means everything else, everybody crying about it a lot of time, they need to just get over it. But the part that killed me about it was the fact that he was innocent and it's like the way how they threw money on the bus like that and he couldn't come out and be like, okay, I'm gonna sue them because I was innocent and stuff like that. He couldn't do any of that. Because at the same time, like we was talking about the parole here, you basically saying, I did do it, I'm sorry. You know what I'm saying? I caused this pain to, you know, this person family. Right. Yada, yada, yada or whatever, however they caught her shoot to. You gotta do that just to look. You gotta do it just to look like something to get out. Make no mistake about it. And let me say this and then just for the records before we go, I don't ever want to come across as downplaying this experience or downplaying the injustices that exist within our judicial system, within our criminal justice system and within law enforcement. I don't ever want to come across as downplaying the enormity of how it negatively affects our community and our culture. Certain groups of people, right? Certain cultures, right? So that stuff is real, but just on an individual level, on a personal level, I feel that every person is in control of their destiny and the way you see the world and the way you perceive it is what it is. Because we all define our own reality. Yeah, and then you gonna turn around and say, well, I ain't doing it, you know what I'm saying? And file a lawsuit, but you just said you did to get out. Do you? Yeah, I wouldn't, I would have been like, some people do say I'm innocent till the day they die. If you're gonna lock me up for a hundred years, lock me up, but I'm gonna hold on to my innocence. I'm not gonna say I'm sorry because. I'm just saying it because it's easy to say that. It's easy to say that, 21 years, you're gonna spend that 21 years and your first chance you get to possibly think about it, Mac, and get to see his son grow up. His son, I know his son, you feel me? And he just not getting, you know what I'm saying? Not even with his son, like, you know, like. In a free world. Like he, think about it. And it's just like, I'm gonna say whatever I gotta say, but incriminate the next person to get up out of here. Got nothing to write.