 I'll call to order the regular design review meeting of the City of Santa Rosa for November 15th, 2018, if we could get a roll call patting. Let the record reflect that all board members are present. Moving to item two, approval of minutes for the October 18th, 2018 meeting. There was an update to the minutes from what was originally issued in the package. I don't know if there were other corrections or illuminations in those minutes for Patty? Chair Berge, I had emailed Patty about the fact that our resolution or the motion accepting the mitigated neck deck for DR-17074 was present, but the actual design review action was not present in the minutes. Are you going to, you can add that piece and we probably don't need to see them again. Is that good with everyone? Great. So if you can add that piece and we'll get the minutes into the record. Moving to item three, board business. That's where I take the opportunity to read the statement of purpose of the design review board. Purpose of the board is the review authority shall consider the location design site plan configuration and the overall effect of the proposed project upon surrounding properties in the city in general. Review shall be conducted by comparing the proposed project to the general plan, any applicable specific plan, applicable zoning code standards and requirements, consistency of the project within the city's design guidelines, architectural criteria for special areas and other applicable city requirements such as city policy statements and development plans. So that is what we do here. Item number four, public comment. Anyone here to comment on an item that is not on today's agenda? See no one will close that portion of the public hearing and move to item five, statements of abstention. At this time, note that item 6.2 is being continued to a date uncertain. That's a concept review so it doesn't require noticing so it can go to a date uncertain and that will come back to us. And just Chair Birch, for anybody that's interested from the public, since there is no public notice, they will need to either ask the planner to be notified or watch the agendas. Perfect. To our scheduled items, item 6.1, preliminary and final design review for round barn village, zero round barn boulevard file number dr18-069. This is a request for preliminary and final today and I will turn it over to staff for presentation. Thank you, Chairman Birch. This application, as you mentioned, is for the round barn village and it is both a preliminary and final design review application and DRB previously saw this application as a concept design review item in April of this year. The application is both for preliminary and final design review for 237 attached townhouse units for round barn village. You can see on the project site the project is on round barn boulevard. Here's another map showing the location of the property, which consists of six parcels, a total of just over 40 acres on round barn boulevard. The zoning and general plan for the property are they're both split designations with about two-thirds of the property being designated medium-low residential and the remainder of the property being designated as open space and as you'll see site development corresponds to the designated areas with the development being in the medium-low residential area and accordingly the open space area which is steeper portions of the site being left undeveloped. This is the area in which you can again see the context of the property with respect to the surrounding development. The site was within the area of the tubs wild fire. There was no development on the site but the fire did occur on the site and a number of the trees on the site did occur burn due to the site crossing the property. This is the site analysis which I think DRB saw this as part of the concept application and basically you can see the site being laid out with approximately 45 attached townhouse units with a main access way through the property to two openings and basically there are clusters of development throughout the site and then the center of the site is the steeper portion of the site with the hillside topography which is being left undeveloped. This also is the illustrated site plan for round barn village which again shows the cluster of townhouse units. The units are three-story units. They're accessed from roadways or alleyways to the rear of the units and as you can see this is the conceptual illustrated elevation for the units. The applicant is proposing a mix of colors and materials with some varied design elements to the units and to the clusters. This project has had a fairly extensive history over the last year plus or so. It went through a planning commission and city council process for a rezoning and general plan amendment to designate the property for residential development and at that time there was a mitigated negative declaration that was approved for the project. As I mentioned it went before DRB in April 5th for concept design review. There was a neighborhood meeting in April 18th and then on we did a double header on August 9th with the project going before waterways committee in the morning because of a small portion of a waterway in the northwest portion of the site and then that evening the project went before the planning commission for review and approval for hillside lot approval hazard was our hillside lot approval tentative map and minor use permit and the planning commission both the planning commission and waterways committee expressed positive feedback on the project and the planning commission approved the project and also adopted an addendum to the negative declaration and mitigate I'm sorry mitigated negative declaration and initial study that had been approved for the project. The applicant subsequently filed for design review approval on October 11th of this year. The necessary findings for design review approval are listed above which basically require consistency with zoning and general plan require it not interfere with the enjoyment of neighboring existing or future development that the architect should be compatible with the neighborhood and provide a desirable environment and that the development not be detrimental to public health safety or welfare. To date there's been no public comment received on this DRB application at the time of the concept design review approval DRB members were expressed positive feedback on the application the main comment received that the applicant received his guidance from DRB was that DRB members encouraged the applicant to try to create differentiation between clusters and between individual units through the sense of color and material and other design elements and I think the example that was used was that if somebody was coming to their unit that there be a way that they would find something unique in their particular unit that would distinguish it from from other units in the development and as DRB members can see the applicants provided a mix of color palette architectural elements and also materials and the applicant will present more on that at today's meeting in an effort to differentiate the units and the clusters. Additionally DRB members received as part of their packet landscape information from the applicant's submittal showing street trees and landscaping and the design for the different pocket parks within the development staff was supportive of the information as submitted and is bringing it before DRB today for DRB review and comment additionally there was reference at the planning commission hearing to DRB looking at the retaining wall design and landscaping on the property as there is a significant amount of cut and fill and retaining wall construction and as part of the application the applicant has shown a series of stacked retaining walls which have pockets within the wall for planting to be provided in order to screen the walls from site and staff felt that that was a good solution in terms of providing screening for the retaining walls but that is also part of what we had asked for DRB to look at as part of its review of the application and staff is recommending that DRB approve the application with the resolution provided in the packet and I'd be happy to answer any questions. We'll start out with questions for staff. Drew, Warren? Just an affirmation the Susan and all the principles on the civil side have been internally discerned and looked at on the civil side. Yes so this has been reviewed by our engineering department and the reflect the conditions of approval reflect that. Thank you. Working our way down? No questions. Sabra? I have one but it's just a matter of curiosity and concern. This will add well combined there'll be something in the neighbourhood of 400 to 450 residents now that will have the only exit route be round barn road, boulevard and I'm wondering if the city has any plans for making a coherent exit route onto round barn circle which does exit onto redwood highway and since this area got burned and since burning trees are sort of in my head again unfortunately that's a matter of curiosity does the city have plans? I'm not aware of any specific plans beyond the roadway network as it exists now. I just will reiterate as Gary mentioned the project did go through a number of land use entitlements with the planning commission and the city council so the development is consistent with the general plan and zoning the density that's proposed also in addition to our engineering department reviewing it the fire department has reviewed this project as well and has found the current traffic circulation the roadway network the exiting if you will to be sufficient so beyond that I don't know of any other plans that the city has right now. Thank you. Scott no questions. Eric none thank you. With that we'll move to a presentation from the applicant if you would be so good to state your name and your relationship to the project as you start. Thank you. Good evening Chair Birch and Vice Chair Hedgefetz I'm Charity Wagner I'm a director of development with City Ventures and I'm joined tonight to discuss the round barn village preliminary and final design review with our landscape architect Chris Fortunato with C2 Collaborative and with Nick Mania at William Hesmahalch Architects. It is a pleasure to be before your full board tonight we certainly appreciate staff's efforts to get us on your agenda and for your time tonight in advance. What I'd like to do is just take a few minutes to introduce the project I can I'll do that and I'll turn to Chris to talk about landscape programming and then as well as to Nick to discuss and the evolution of the architecture from when you or your board last saw this in April to now and then we'll close with some more kind of site specific lighting and color material discussion. Staff did speak a little bit to the project evolution overall we started working on this project back in the fall of 2014 so we're just hitting four years now. The board did see the project and concept review in April of this year at which point we got some really positive feedback in the overall site planning and some good direction in terms of how to provide more of a sense of place for folks to not kind of wander around and get lost so we've incorporated a lot of that which we'll talk through tonight and then we did receive support from the commission and the council to get the residential development plans approved an hour back before you as our final entitlement actually on the project tonight. The Rambarn Village project is located oh I hit click too soon that's my fancy graphic for the night the if only the development actually happened that fast the project is encircled by Rambarn Boulevard with a office development immediately south. There are the whole project size about 40 acres and the development is just a little less than a half of that the portion of the project that is not developed with townhomes will be owned and maintained by the project's home and association for a single entity providing common maintenance for that native space it was intentional to leave those spaces as open space there's developed with significant oak growth some steep topography as well as a very small section of Nagasar Creek in the northwest corner to the chairman of student board members question about access since we're looking at this there are those two points of access on Rambarn Boulevard so you can get out Rambarn to the east and to the west we did spend a lot of time with Scott Minifire Marshall talking about providing at least two points of access to the project and then the project is also conditioned to actually provide a full traffic signal at the intersection of Rambarn and Fountain Grove Parkway now um if you visited the site recently you've noticed that that does get backed up a little bit so as part of the project we will be designing and installing a traffic signal at that location this touchy the site analysis map um as Gary mentioned this is the same map that your board saw back in April um there's a couple new faces on the board but we wanted to bring this back to show that the nuts and bolts of the project have stayed the same there's a there are two main points of access to the project there are 45 buildings in total um as small as a four-unit building up to an eight-unit building um the all all buildings actually either front onto an open space or kind of front onto each other into a landscape pisseo the there's a lot of pedestrian circulation in and around through the project and then it's centered by a our central amenity a nice pool and spa building so i'm kind of giving away all chris's good stuff here um but i wanted to make a point to say that the again the larger building blocks of the site plan are the same and what we want to talk about tonight is how we've kind of graduated and involved architecture and the landscape programming to share with you tonight so with that i will turn to chris and have him talk about landscaping hi chris fortune on a c2 collaborative where the landscape architect on the project so when we first got a hold of this project i think one of the things that we looked at that was definitely unique from a development project is that there's a lot of open space and so what we wanted to do is you know take that approach and take a little high level look at um kind of how all these unique little open spaces work how to program them um how people would use them things like that so you can see this is our landscape structure diagram what we've done is we've broken it down the spaces you can see the green spaces um we have an active space and what we have is what i call like an active program space which are kind of the lighter green areas you can see kind of down in the southern portion then up kind of in the um the upper i guess it would be the northwest portion there's those two little active open spaces and then we've got our our amenity as well and so when we you know thought about kind of how we were going to program these spaces you know all the other things we need to look at with circulation one of the things that we noticed was that you know there's a nice circulation circulation loop trail almost if you will that wraps around the site and so one of the things that when we're looking to do our design is connect these spaces so we put that um in our plans as well and to kind of have that loop it's about four thousand forty five hundred feet which is almost a little less than a mile so that pedestrians or the people in the residence can walk around get their exercise and visit all the little parks and you know make sure that they're all connected so once we looked at kind of the overall landscape strategy we went and we designed these spaces um tried to make each little space unique um and kind of give a variety of spaces for each of the areas you can kind of see as almost kind of like a dumbbell shape so we've kind of get um some program on one side and um try to share that um on the other side as well it's kind of kind of hard to see on the slide but i kind of walk you through some of these spaces um kind of as you come in um the main entry which is kind of up there at your number one area we have like a little pointer on here that we can use oh i got a little mouse we can use that one so as you kind of come in here we've got our number this is our main our main entry and then we've got our secondary entry kind of over here um it opens up onto this big green and we've got a detailed design of this that we'll look at in a little bit um so this is kind of more what we call is more of an active space we've got seating um open turf area um uh and this is also where we're going to have our our models in this area as well some other open space in the area is a little maybe a little more of a passive part where it's just a couple benches and some turf area and then kind of down over in this area this is one of our program's open spaces where we're proposing to have a community garden down over here um the orientation of this makes it a pretty good spot for it back in the corner away from everybody else and then kind of as we move through we've got a couple other little open spaces in here that are passive one of our other active more active open spaces is over here where we've got some kids play area um and we'll have some shaded seating um and this is one of the larger spaces also this one has a nice view over here so this is kind of why we chose this area over here this is a nice space to kind of hang out and um let the kiddos play in the turf and also in the um the playground area and then our in our final space over here is our our main rec center with a pool and spa and i'll get into some of the um the enlargements and the design elements there in um some of these um spaces as well moving forward so the next slide portion um there are some walls in this project and the they are um of the vidura geogrid wall variety which means they're kind of they're they're they're plantable and they mostly occur kind of on this backside kind of through here varying in heights and so um the way that these work i'm sure you're familiar with every third row is planted with the vine and then um what we've done in the past that's been successful is we also plan to vine at the base of the wall that can kind of that'll grow up and kind of supplement um the um the vine pockets themselves because a lot of times the vine pockets don't have a lot of soil on them so it takes a while for those vines to get going but once once we get the vines on the bottom they have plenty of room to grow um and um the wall fills in pretty pretty quickly um so we've got an elevation and a section as well i think when we're doing our improvement plans um we picked more a more colorful vine for the bottom part so that i gave a little bit um of aesthetic value to um to the to the wall um and then we'll get some trees in front of it as well especially along um this uh just is kind of where the most of the wall is over here uh let's see what's our next our next slides our entry so we have two entries we've got our main um which is going to be our east entry and then we've got our secondary and so the idea for the entry monumentation here is you know um to kind of give a pedestrian scale bring the scale down a little bit make you feel comfortable as you kind of move into the site so we created these two little porticoes that sit that cover the that go over the walkway as you go through them as you walk walk into the site and if you remember the um the circulation diagram there's a trail that goes around the whole um the entire site so we're going to have quite a few people walking in and out and i think it'll be more of a pedestrian area that people can use and walk around um and then off of that we'd have our a low wall with our signage on it um materials colors they're all going to complement the buildings behind and then we've got some tree backdrops kind of to screen the buildings from behind as well so we're trying to tie all this in together so it's one cohesive design element as you enter into the site so our next slide is our rec center um and so we actually were able to fit a nice size pool on this area um if you remember kind of where this was in the site it sits right in the middle so um it's it's accessible from both sides and then it's also kind of on the the loop trail that kind of wraps comes around and wraps around the front of the rec center and there's some views off the back as well so we have one amounts to just about a junior olympic size pool lengthwise um two to three lanes we have our spa we have our social seating we've got some um barbecues um and some areas that hang out we've got our our pool building which is really there's not really much um besides uh pool equipment and then our um our restrooms and showers and things like that on there it's a pretty nice amenity for um size for the amount of um residents that are going to be in the area the next slide shows one of our um passive parks this is the one by um where the models and sales center is going to be so this comes this is um right as you enter into the site so right when you enter in it opens up um into this big more what we're calling the pasture park which is basically a large turf area so um it really kind of you know opens the site up right when you come in and it's a kind of a nice um little gesture um right at the entrance where we've got our shade um seating um our play area so the kids can play out there in the lawn um and also areas that kind of sit under the shade structure um and a walkway as well through there um and then we've got our other active park here which is our orchard park which is our kids play area um so we kind of went with an idea of more of kind of like a timber form type uh play area play structures um with some shade um and some seating areas and then we put some mounds also in the turf area um we found that one of the things that's been successful is the kids really like to kind of roll up and down um and run around on the mounds I've got a six-year-old and he just I mean I wanted to go play on the play equipment but he just ends up running around on the uh in the grass and getting all dirty but um anyway so that's kind of our um our active portion and um kind of like we talked about um we kind of tried to place these on the site so that it's accessible so it's like on that accessible route of travel around the site and then um kind of as well as kind of spread these amenities out so that everybody kind of gets a little piece of um green space to uh to use I think that's it Thank you Chris and um before I transition over to Nick here we'll just take one second to point out on the top um half of this slide is one area we can see where we already are coordinating the BMPs our um C3 compliance that's actually a small detention base BMP area just north of that building in the corner there um I can show you here actually in this piece here so these are throughout the site everywhere and then actually south you know there's one here too um shallow depressions to um treat and manage the storm water throughout the site so those have been coordinated there's a lot of um back and forth with the how we shape those where they're located you know um but definitely a big component of the project and so with that I did um also wanted to turn to Nick for a minute to talk about the evolution of our building architecture so at concept review we had three elevations a b and c um the project still has three elevations also named a b and c um that concept review we had anticipated that all elevation a would be on all the build the four unit buildings and elevation b would be on all of the five unit buildings um so each building type only have one elevation assigned who've changed that um holistically that's gone so every building will be elevated with each individual elevation so kind of lends itself to more um diversity of building types but a nice pattern throughout the project that's one more significant change to the architecture um schematic throughout the site but there's also kind of a lot of material growth as well at the project so these next three slides Nick can talk to kind of how the um they've evolved if you will thank you thank you charity and um thank you again for having us here this evening and allowing us to present to you um our vision for this uh cool neighborhood that's uh we're looking forward to um come uh and be built here in the hopefully in the near future um as sharian mentioned um the elevation that you see up to the top of the page shows our first pass that we've met on um it shows the elevation that was intended to be mostly all steco um if you recall when we had division for the neighborhood we had anticipated kind of a farmhouse contemporary farmhouse uh simple forms and really clean lines um as we progressed through the architecture um we decided that bringing some materials bringing some more color and um it brings a little bit more of the traditional which um they're still um a desire for so the building's elevation at the bottom of the page does show how we've applied that material in combination um with bringing on a special a color specialist we've worked back and forth um as the architect um and applied to where we thought they would give the best balance for the building our elevation b um was predominantly bored and bat and stuck with backdrop again we still have the backdrop of the stucco but with having the mix of bored and bat and siding and having a nice nice balance of the material we thought this would this um also again takes it to the next level um in addition to the color and material we've also started paying closer attention to access to the decks where before we've had a trellis cover more of a decorative now we're providing decorative and protection for the access to the decks with a shed roof um also a material was added to the front doors of certain um certain homes um we didn't see the need to have stone at all the all the homes but add certain specific location that's what you're seeing here as well there's application of manufactured stone that gives it the again a nice texture and a balance and this is our elevation c um this one is predominantly bored and bat um again it also has the stone application at certain um entries and all what I also forgot to mention the details that were cared from a b and c um not only in the application of the material but also the window trim breakups um columns at porches um and all of that's been looked at very closely and differentiated between the three styles um we've also taken the liberty of I believe last time we had met it was recommended that possibly having a 3D rendering of what what it would look like to to live in in the neighborhood and what we've done here if you've taken a snapshot from our east entry uh our main entry on the each side of the road you'll see the two buildings uh aplex buildings um colored with um a specific color scheme um and then beyond is the open space as chris described um that welcomes you into the neighborhood our second rendering shows an alley shot um where all the garages um we thought it's important to um kind of showcase what the alleys would live like um it's not necessarily just for cars but actually um neighbors could um walk their young borns or their their pet in the background but uh meet each other and um it's not just a dark alley or it's actually it's a nice welcoming space in addition to the planting and the articulation of the building it feels like the rest of the building the rest of the neighborhood thank you thank you so with that um this uh image in mind with these colors I wanted to talk for a minute about the color and elevation scheme plotting and I think this is like second to last slide so I appreciate you bearing with us um nick do my handy nose out or just giving him to drew and they can um nick's going to hand you our actual color material boards this dynamic of being in the chambers kind of new to me with design review to share materials with you so I appreciate your patience um so uh this slide looks a little bit like alphabet soup and I apologize for that what I'm what I want to convey is that we have um taken the time to look at both colors and elevation styles per building um and have placed them specifically throughout the site such that we can group elevations of buildings so if you're looking at if you're looking at this side of the project here then this these two buildings will have color scheme too um and this building will be elevation c and this building will be elevation b and there'll be a cross room in a and another c so you're not going to be looking at all of the same building elevation grouped together um you'll also have different color schemes so this will be an elevation c c scheme two color scheme and these will all be in the scheme three color scheme so a little differentiation but very um compatible um in terms of the four color schemes that we're proposing um we are staying staying true to the what we're calling our modern farmhouse aesthetic um the base of the buildings are white and some light graves and then we've got dark roofs a black roof and a black door and that's largely consistent through all four schemes to keep that kind of very like all whites with black roof door kind of modern farmhousey look and um scheme one while it's more of kind of the subdued color scheme it doesn't have a real bright pop schemes two three and four do they use that red or you know blue or yellow if you will for my layman's color terms um to provide a something more aesthetic it's all it's all very um intentionally placed and allows for the what we're talking about people walking people driving to visit friends or to drive home to feel like okay clearly this is my home because this is where I turn all the time past the red door past the red building to kind of get people that sense of um knowing where they are when they're on the property um so all the colors are pulled together um to provide that kind of sense of compatibility and a really nice welcoming street scene and I wanted to talk for a minute about lighting site lighting um it's a big site there's a lot going on here for site lighting but um what I did want to share is that the everything on site is private all streets are private um all on site lighting will be all managed and maintained by the homeowner association as well um from a from a lighting standpoint we took time to look at um multiple levels of lighting um street lighting like the physical light on the street um the ballards and parks um the shorter what we're calling park lights um as well as buildings uh building lighting building lighting at the garages and then lighting at um front doors as well and so I'll I'll zoom in a little bit here to hopefully show that a little bit better um on the street you can see kind of these red areas these are street lights um here here here here um all placed in and around the project um and the details of that are on the next slide I'll show you what we're what we're providing for the design of what street light we'd like to use um and then we've also got a ballard spacing at about 15 feet 15 to 20 feet in all of our pedestrian walkways so all of these ballards along here we have all sorts of ballards along the pedestrian walkways to the individual units um and again also photo cell lights on the fronts of each home and on the alleys in the back here too um our photometrics are coming out actually a bit brighter than what city would require as a minor street sand standard um we are working with the city's electrical department to make sure that we're going to be consistent with that's important to us to balance a well at site where people feel safe to use that mile loop trail and around the project and to walk from space to space open space to open space but also not to be a big shining beacon of light um so it's a it's a delicate balance there and we're aware of that and looking forward to working with staff to make sure we we hit the mark these are the fixtures that we're proposing uh the two on the left hand side are the um building lights the um front entries and garages and then the patios and side elevations will kind of this craft mini style light the pole lights or street lights up top um and then the ballard lights shown as well all all kind of this dark textured black um color and material and we spoke a little bit at our conceptual review the project is still all electric housing there's no natural gas to any of these units a solar is provided to kilowatt standard on every single home solar is on the roof and a little bit of a depressed roof area so they're not visible um from the public view but still providing um largely eliminating electrical bills for most of these homeowners depending on how many people live in the home but for the size of these homes about 1700 and 1900 square feet it is not uncommon for city vendors homeowners to not pay any electrical bills with our solar power um solar's just one component of our all-electric we do have um nest thermostats we prewire all of our um homes for electric car charging which is now actually a building code requirement but we've been doing that for a very long time um we have all high energy efficient appliances um so we're we're very proud of this um as a standard for this particular project as well and then lastly we just wanted to thank you again for your time and attention and i am also for staff too just getting us here to this meeting it's an important incredibly important project from us it's also my favorite project right now and um we are um in work with improvement plans for the city of santa rosa now and we are anticipating construction start as soon as next summer 2019 um so we are anxious for your feedback tonight and look forward to your questions three of us will stay up here um happy to answer anything that you might have to share with us thank you so much can we get the color schemes back down to the scent we'll take the odds you take the evens thank you very much and with that we will jump into questions um from the board and eric i'll start at your end with questions uh for the applicant great thank you just a few questions uh one is in regards to the pool what kind of perimeter is that is it iron iron fencing wood i didn't see that in the design um for the most part it would be um two-door steel fencing um we have an idea of perhaps um if budgets um allow to maybe put um a glass fence along the back side for views um but obviously it'll meet all the pool codes um five and a half six feet tall eric i'm going to ask that we hold on the question for just one minute i wanted to make sure i have i have a card on this item and i wanted to make sure that i got public comment on the item before we jumped into our questions it's always helpful so just to hang tight um i'm going to call the first card that i have on the item opening the public hearing on this item um duane duit thank you my name is duane duit from santa rosa i'm a bit concerned that the way this is being laid out doesn't take into account the need for more affordable housing in santa rosa and sonoma county everyone that's bringing things forward is trying to go to the minimal limits of affordability requirements and this is a time where the city was so concerned about the housing crisis they put a housing bond on the ballot themselves that's what the city council did saying hey we need more housing we're ready to put the taxpayers deeper in debt to get it and that was for affordable housing and to me a project like this is the optimal opportunity because you know you've got a site up there and it's close to transit it's a spot where you could get in far more affordable units the developers will always say oh no we can't make a pencil out we can't make a pencil out but during design review you can say yes within your design there are ways to get in smaller units for seniors studios veterans all that kind of stuff and push it go up to 30 percent 35 affordable even more what the heck i mean anything is going to be used now in santa rosa and sonoma county there's a market for everything and santa rosa has always exceeded its above market rate requirements it's never fallen short there it's always been thousands of units ahead on that according to the association of bay area governments and what's known as the regional housing needs assessments where we always come in short is having the smaller spaces i call them simple homes for people of modest means and i believe some of them should be able to be up there at that round barn village area especially if it was people from the journey's end just down the street who got burned out and are still sitting in limbo waiting for something to happen so give it a thought i know it might seem to uh what's that term for somebody called me oh it's bleeding heart social equity what are you talking about we're about the design and the colors and the palette well hey it's the palette of people that also count in a community and getting that opportunity for many different types of people to live in this new uh village as it's being called it takes many kinds of people to make a village so please let's go with hey i got an idea 50 affordable what the hey it'd be wonderful thank you so much for your time thank you anyone else to comment on this item see no one will bring it back to the board and eric send it back down to you thank you um i know it's just late in the process but i was just curious in regards to you know a development this size why there was no clubhouse location for h o a meetings things like that i mean i applaud the pool uh i was just curious just curious why that election was was made not to do that we do um i think what our intention was actually to to capture more of the outdoor space stuff so to your point we do have the larger pool center and we do the the rec what you're looking at now does actually have a um like an outdoor kitchen cooking area and restroom facilities and covered areas for gatherings but um to your point you know there's no um specific indoor space for community meeting so we went more for the kind of outdoor rec component that's it for me thank you great scott yeah i just had a question about kind of site walkability in the sense that it looks like you know you've integrated the exterior trail really well and you've brought people onto the property in a really safe manner you don't really have to cross that main street when you enter the property and then once you get on the property i didn't really see how you integrate in walking between you know the private streets and alleyways are there actual i know it's probably not a requirement but are there actual designated crosswalks per se for families to utilize throughout the site yeah so if you um looking at this diagram here everything green and i can show this maybe this way these are all um walking paths and there's also a sidewalk that connects here gets you across you can come all the way across the site this way on a sidewalk and you cut back here to get to these these all front this direction so you can get back this direction here too purple is also walkway so you can continue along this way here as well you connect up to back out to the main entrance here as well so the all purple here all these purple dashes green dashes these are all sidewalk trails also along this side getting people from this entrance of this home here they can come out this way and walk this way to the back to this open space area here or they can come out through this walkway and walk this way to get out to the same portion here and as they're crossing the actual alleys are there crosswalks or is it just open ended from sidewalk to sidewalk it's open from sidewalk to sidewalks about 24 feet from one side to the next side so it's not um a hatched a hatched sidewalk no thank you but to Chris's point it'll have ramps so you could ramp down and back up again but yeah thank you no buttons to push to cross the street though sabra i appreciate the fact that this is going to be a a strongly uh solar supported project and i wondered if you had looked at the opportunity to have lights that turned on as people walked through it rather than on all the time uh some developments have discovered that they can give the resident a fob that will turn the light on as they walk through in the dark and turn it on only for the duration that they're within a certain number of feet of a specific light and since you're concerned reasonably about light pollution i wondered if you would consider something like that right you know we have um to your point we do have the technology to do that um and as planned now the house lights and street lights are all photo cells that do come on um when needed at dusk to dawn so those are actually lit um automatically that way but to your point on the um lights that maybe aren't needed to meet that safety standard we could look at something like that i to your question no i hadn't thought about it but it's something we could certainly get into so we've done that before where the lights don't turn off but they dim as when they're not being used so i mean the technology is there for sure to do something like that landscape on this this slide here the red trail there's the project taking ownership of that trail now or not we we actually already do it's on on our on private property so it's a currently a public easement that will be maintained okay yes um and then the kids play area is all the way at the end of one of the project and i was just concerned that maybe you know the kids on the other end of the project won't have any type of play area did you think about that when you were locating it we did um that happened to be kind of the largest where we get the almost bang out of our buck for the the kids play over at the other area we have more a larger turf a lot more turf areas and mounding um where we could get um not much of a not too much of an active kids play area but more passive kids in those areas and we have the pool as well kind of in the middle and last question for the architects the stone on the uh on the color palette i was just wondering what your thoughts were in picking that particular one the stone we we we thought would give it a nice um texture and um we wanted to use it in strategic locations to give it a nice balance um it is kind of a muted color and it wasn't meant to jump out at you but uh be a nice um soft color that would complement the accent colors that we have with the rest of the materials thanks that's it more and i'll jump to you thank you i just one question i was um obviously very excited about the all electric world and the green key points from city ventures i know one of the things about um electric versus forced air as far as creating mass there's um been a lot of studies about double drywall to create mass inside and i don't know what this is this is just a curious question nothing more but as as you explore deeply into electric and and how electric works over time with comfort have you uh have you explored anything to do with with mass and how electric heating is is it comfort to its occupants not particularly no but these questions are my favorite questions so i wish i had a better answer for you i'm not here to put you on the spot it's just a it's a whole new way of thinking it's uh it's one of the cheapest ways to to have that flywheel warmth kind of be with you even though the sun's free so that's that's all it was all well intended thanks true sorry uh more than i were trying to find a drawing in here a minute ago and we couldn't so i guess that ties to my question so on the pool community area um you have i guess two structures ish looking like two actual buildings quote unquote and then there's some prefab stuff and some kind of pergola esque stuff um right so you guys didn't include a design of kind of building eight in the package correct we did not okay i was totally trying to find it and i just couldn't um and then the i i completely understand what's going on with the uh retaining wall i've actually done a couple of these um but i guess so the fence that you have on top of the retaining wall is that is that the kind of condition everywhere that one of the retaining walls happens or is that a kind of one off condition or i would say due to the height of some of the retaining walls that's going to be on top of most of them it's a guardrail right yeah yeah i feel like i asked this at the concept review but um it's was in april so i don't remember um you guys are handling trash internally for each unit right if memory serves correct okay there's no common area trash there's no trash so because there these are all independent units that have their own trash and there's no community drive okay because i was looking for shared trash facilities and whatnot and i just didn't see any and then um there was one other question i had i can't remember where i put it so bear with me for a moment i'm sorry uh it has to do with the color palette i'm looking at the wrong document that's why so on um the color palette that you guys gave us in our packet uh our electronic packet here it says garage doors and then the manufacturer is wane dalton and then it says dbd and then on here it has a color um my question is the color that's indicated in the both the renderings the 3d renderings and your elevation renderings to me doesn't match taupe so it looks a little darker than to open the renderings to um the color is the color you're seeing on the back of those um so torts is your intention yes okay cool that was my last question i have a couple of questions um it's i've i've done some back and forth trying to piece this together do the do the ladders all land are they all facing the alley side there's a little bit of a discrepancy between maybe what's in the um color study which shows a ladder on what appears to be the side that must contain the um utilities meters maybe that generally appears to be facing the street but then on the elevations that are in the plan set the one ladder that i see is on the off side which is uh so i'm just curious about where that ladder is i'd love to see them face the alleys not the streets mostly can you comment on what's going on there actually you'll be pleased to hear um from our last uh meeting a decision was made to actually remove all the ladders and all roof access would be through a hatch from the units unless of course you have a large strong preference for ladders but that was um something that did well we tried the limit the roof penetrations when we can um in all honesty and the ladders did kind of lend itself some something to the aesthetic but um to to confirm that we were pulling the ladders off so there'll be interior access from each unit to the roof the ladders were here for roof access and not a safe this is not a safety this is not a fire yeah so that's an upgrade in terms of correct okay great he answered the question about the the trash that was one of my other questions um the color schemes um i just want to i i guess i had a comment overall on the color schemes and that was that the uh base colors the the white and and the uh the the tan i can't remember the name of the color i should have in front of me there's there's a there's a definite bed that every one of the color schemes lives in which is the and yeah it was the high reflective white and the natural i think that is yeah and one of the things that one of the things that seems to happen as i work my way across the color palettes naked morning as i work my way across the color palettes are the accent colors uh get a little warmer and get a little cooler and i'm not a hundred percent sure that the natural necessarily works with all of the um accent colors so that was just a comment that maybe there there may be a um a slightly cooler large gesture over the white that sort of transitions out to those those colors there just seems to be a little disconnect in some of the buildings where the pop color while it needs to be striking and it needs to jump out is maybe sitting on a bed that's a little bit off for it and uh that's what i think about when i get to um uh the the the gray blue in scheme two that pops off the natural is a bit uh it gets a bit odd i don't know if i have a real suggestion here i just thought that i would be open to giving a little bit of latitude where there was the opportunity to maybe get the colors to line up a little bit more the other comment that i had on the color schemes was that and it really showed up in in um in the two renderings that i saw if you could put the two renderings up i'm a little bit concerned about the um the high waist color change um it seems to occur sort of randomly in the plan and i tried to look at a couple of buildings to see where that would really show up um and if you go to the next rendering what seems to be really effective and i know this is the alley and maybe this is a taste preference of mine i like clean um those full volumes those full height volumes of color they just seem to have a lot more um pop they stand out and i'm just afraid about the high waist scheme that just pops up randomly here and there maybe not working well and that was a comment that i had and i just i like the strength of what i see in that alley rendering versus this sort of two color scheme the contemporary farmhouse i think maybe takes a step away from this kind of we were sort of moving into a different area that the way you're doing the paint scheme so i would be open to the idea that we didn't have these split pieces and we just went with straight vertical pops of color so the comment that i have overall and i think this is gonna i this is just you know discussion for the board um maybe not a question but i will but i will ask the question you know we saw a light we saw a light plan i see some light fixture selections even the landscaping the landscape plans are pretty conceptual right now so i can look down the paseos between the buildings and i can see trees represented different sizes and there's a list of trees but we don't have any more than that to look at tonight is there are there drawings that are in at the city is there something that we've got that we could take a look at that i'm just curious what else might be available to us yes the answer to that is yes so that there are improvement plans into the city for review and those do include all of the common area landscaping so all the pallets are dialed in all those tree types are dialed in so we can do two things we can share with you the palette tonight that's that's there i can kind of throw that up on the screen and then chris can also talk to specific tree types for the street trees and patio trees and vine trees and pocket trees we actually we could certainly share those and we're happy to do that let me let me maybe bring that back when we have discussion with the board about what the resolution is that we would be looking at this group and what we might be considering there any other questions for the applicant before we move to discussion warren i'm sorry i know you had the rendering there if you look at your rendering you've got these brackets on the front gable to mike's comment about contemporary farm house and there's no brackets behind in the back the garage area is to the point about the alleyway which is a more i'll use the word a dietary but clean way of looking at the architecture everything has the colors doing the work or the the stucco or the wood it seems a little odd having brackets in the front and the whole working of the project the theming of the project if you're holding a roof up and you don't need a bracket in the back uh is it is it more or a mental and to to michael's point that the question is looking at the strength and consistency of the whole project it's it's only some of the last vestiges of bracketing i've i've seen can you frame that as a question counselor i can bracket it as a question yes the question is why was was there a a reason to have overhangs have brackets as or to not i think you through your questions you might have touched a little bit on my answer but um i'll try to answer it um you're correct on the front elevations we we thought having those brackets and awnings over the windows would give a little more detail and a little bit street curb appeal but point taken that may be simple more it's not always better so simplifying it down we can definitely look at removing those brackets removing these awnings and possibly going with a strong color going the full length of those gables and that may give it more of a cleaner contemporary farmhouse look thank you any other questions all right i'll pull it back to the pull it back to the board here um what we do we we operate under a system of rozenberg's rules a little bit different um we like to get a motion forwarded on a resolution or any any motion um early and then we discuss it so uh would like to jump in and see if there's a board member who would like to start with a motion sure chair birch uh i move to approve preliminary design review only for the round barn village at zero round barn bullard file number dr 18-069 so second on that motion sabre and we'll move to discussion uh drew as the motion maker let's start with you sure do you want to know why i made motion that way i did or do you want me to roll into my comments now go ahead let's let's talk about the motion first and then the comments sure um um so uh i i guess first thank you great package lots of stuff in here to unpack so i really appreciate that i know my fellow board members do as well um but the reason that i don't want to defer final to staff or approve final tonight is because um i think chair birch touched on it kind of briefly but there are some holes in your package uh and so as a result of that i i typically don't want to see uh applicants back if they have great packages because you guys have a great package but because there are some glaring holes in your package and that our purview is over those things that are missing from your package i'm uncomfortable approving your entire project but you know unlocking preliminary uh from what i understand helps you go after financing it helps uh kind of a wide variety of other things that's the actual that's our official action item and the kind of the second piece is kind of almost like a punch list so to speak uh in construction terminology and so then that way you know you come back you give us all the extra stuff you have and then we'll send you on your way so that's why i felt the motion was that way drew if you don't mind my jumping in and supporting your um motion for preliminary only tonight i've got a number of there's just there's just a number of things here that um we're responsible to buy it to buy off on that uh that just aren't here so the landscape plan uh that should be defining you know the position of and and the the the size of planting i can look at the paseos it's a pretty picture i see the green i see areas that are indicated as larger trees and smaller trees but i don't but i don't have anything that's going to tell staff what that needs to be when they do address the final improvement plans and and the landscape you know package there's no there's no architecture for the pool and amenity buildings there's a handful of things that i think you know potentially tonight we may ask some questions or ask for some detail but there's there's not something to necessarily look at i get concerned as much for you and i know i say this a lot when we talk about this and this is the classic this hurts this hurts me more than it hurts you that phony parenting line um but you know i look at the beautiful uh unit light that you've put a cut sheet for in here and it's seven and a half inches or eight inches deep and it's sitting right you know where the um it's it's right next to the door on hardscape so it doesn't even meet a da for where it's going to hang which puts you guys in a position with staff and with the building department later that if you are going to switch that light out you got to come back and see us later anyway maybe in the heat of the moment and there's just a number of those little things throughout this that i think that it would be more comfortable for everyone if you're working down the road with detailed landscape drawings and other things that you would um come see us in a meeting that doesn't require noticing for final design review and bring these items back to us concurrently with putting them in i i'm very confident that the way that you guys do projects in this being your fourth or fifth or six projects in santa rosa that i'm very confident that you guys are going to bring forward good detail and do a good project but i think it safeguards the city and staff and it safeguards this board when we just have those last little pieces in front of us and they're important there's there's just um there's a there's some details missing right away landscape um the detailed lighting plan for us to review and the architecture of the pool buildings and i and there's fencing details that we need to take a look at um that aren't in here as well i'm just these are some basic checklist items that i want to make sure we get a chance to see so um that's why i support drew i just wanted to camp on to drew's comments about preliminary only tonight before we jump further into that because those are those are those are my four questions so now i'm done asking those are my four comments as well um but now we can jump back to drew with his comments so i i don't know where to start uh i guess we'll start with my comments on the architecture and then i'll do my comments on the site plan i think that'll work um it's it's funny chair birch mentioned the whole uh kind of front back component about the verticality of the the gable piece that comes and then attaches into that mansard and um you know there's there's some really uh kind of unique elements that present themselves in some of the other elevations in terms of kind of like the louver components or the the white stripe that exists that i think that monolithic gable piece all by itself with what you kind of have going on with the windows just get rid of get rid of the awning get rid of the brackets um i'm you're probably familiar with how we're back in um there's actually a back in image in uh some of the landscape stuff i think if back in probably cringe uh seeing someone like these like little attached pieces because there's something really beautiful about the just the the kind of the balance and the symmetry that you have so i think you're just there's just a little too much confetti on the elevations and and so that way if you kind of take those pieces off and you look at the four sides of all these buildings together you've got a coherent kind of design statement that exists on all four sides um and i think it just makes it that much stronger in addition to kind of the color variation and kind of what's being played you know between each kind of piece um the other thing i guess in terms of the kind of the front elevations that i think you could probably do away with uh is on some of these elevations there's there appears to be like a kicker or a bracket on uh kind of the porch element um i think elevation b in building 300 scheme one has that and and again i think simple is probably better here um so just have you know columns columns on the roof i don't think you need uh brackets or kickers or anything like that in in those realms and and the fact that they they kind of they're kind of simple posts in one elevation and they kind of translate to kind of maybe a greek-esque type column in another one i i i think they just kind of need to be the same i know it's like a little tiny thing but i again kind of the the panelized components and the trim i think are much stronger statement than trying to change your columns and you'll save money too because you put the same column everywhere um you know i i i both disagree and agree with chair birch on the kind of the high-waisted um trim transition from siding the board and batten uh i think there's actually uh there's something kind of beautiful about it um in a way i think and actually kind of if there's a lot of precedent historical precedent for it um in farmhouses and in craftsmen kind of type construction um so i'm not opposed to it i think it'll actually be a stronger statement without the brackets and the awnings and all that it'll just it'll be that unique thing that's happening on that elevation right so you've got kind of you've got a siding elevation you've got a board and batten elevation you've got a siding elevation with vertical panels you've got a board and batten elevation with vertical panels you've got a high-waisted elevation that transition finish type um so i think you know those that that kind of language that you're creating um with the materiality i think is it's that that's setting the scene as opposed to stuff that you're adding um i you know i should have asked this question uh because i but i forgot about it so on the rear of these buildings there's this kind of pop out on i guess the third floor and it's white like the stucco is that is that a bathroom or something or is it i believe that is one of the bedroom one of the bedroom for the home on the third level okay i'm seeing it now okay um it's it's interesting because it's it's it's a it's a language that it's its own in these buildings right you have you have the gables you have the mansor groove you have the porch entries you have kind of these these portals that you've created with a transition in material now to the stone and then the stucco and i imagine there's some relief in that that facade and then you go to the rear and you've got that that piece that bedroom and it's its own massing and and so i think maybe get rid of the brackets on it and maybe get rid of any other detailing on it and just kind of just let it be blank because it's it's not really talking to anything else and it obviously makes sense plan wise programmatically to have that space to make that bedroom you know large enough to support the unit but i think just completely clean it up and just make it flat because then it'll kind of disappear and it won't it won't be i call it uh when i do design work i call it a fiddly bit it's kind of like one of those little things that kind of ends up unresolved and you're you're kind of struggling how to do something with it and i think that's kind of what's happening here um and then i guess with the colors the only thing is i agree with chair birch on the kind of that this body two color um but i think when i look at the elevations it's actually not um the body two color makes sense in kind of that false gable relief sense or in the kind of the upper zone to me where it where it falls flat a little bit is in that first floor area where you're transitioning from the base color to the stone and then some the elements are sitting on it and i'm wondering maybe that stone just a thought it's but it's it's not the right color it's not the right there's just something not not right in that transition because it's it's it's not beefy enough of a color it's not a strong enough color to kind of kind of act as that plinth for the kind of what's going on above um i think that's it's kind of flat i think is what's happening for me um architecturally and then uh as far as the landscape goes i i love these pocket parks i think they're really awesome um the fact that you have kind of these unique details in each one and they've they've all kind of got their own little flavor and character uh is really uh i think an element that we didn't previously see uh in the concept design um my only thing would be is that we need to see uh i think we need to see the building designs again for the uh for the pool and then we need to see kind of the pergola designs in there um i'm not like the prefabricated cabanas like i don't think we need to see those we know what those are right um but the uh you know uh and in the pasture park uh you know kind of the that that main kind of gabled pergola element the shade structure you know what is that i mean that's obviously a statement piece it's an attraction point to this park you know we need to see that that guy as well um and any other structures that kind of that are not kind of prefabricated or that are not you know playground structure i think we need to see kind of some description of what that is is it wood is a metal is it you know i think there's some imagery kind of on the bottom here of what it potentially could be but you know we need to see what it actually is i think um and then finally the reason i asked the question about that guardrail fence component element is i don't know what it is it could be it could be you know inch and a half od diameter you know galvanized steel that you paint that's a guardrail or it could be you know glass or it could be you know welded wire mesh with wood we just don't know what it is and that you know fencing and guardrails are kind of in our purview of review and particularly i think because the planning commission made a comment about that we need to have that element in this package and then also i guess the last thing would be please include all the other stuff that we would need planting plans lighting plans i think i have the same concerns about the lighting uh that your burst does so i think that's it for me thank you drew more i think it's a it's a wonderful project and part of me has mixed feelings about the the final line it's it's a very intense package it has a lot to it and it's unfortunate the building aid is out it's unfortunate about the landscaping um they're they're more minor issues the the general comment i have is uh the uh it could almost go either way but it would have to be a fairly specific conditioning and to to mike's point maybe the exhaustion of conditioning is is a lot to ask i just want to step back briefly and talk about the architecture and i i actually like the the browse over these windows facing out because they're functional with the window and when you have the function of a brow you do need to hold it up so i'm going to just stay strong with my comments that the more superfluous brackling around the uh the the front gables is unnecessary but when you're holding something up that bracketing can work i think my my my general feeling about um the trim and the colors is one of um i like these strong deep charcoal colors in some ways this is almost too too washed out you could either go darker yet i i like the off white it's not being too polar white the comment about warm tones cold tones i don't really have a uh a blistering worry that these colors aren't complemented to each other you you put a lot of time in this um the green's a little a little interesting for me i can't quite figure out whether it's it's a it's a subtle green or more uh more more vivid that i'm not going to fuss with the colors um i wanted to speak to your your parapet line you've got all your photo ball takes worked out and you have these these higher what i'll call they're not quite parapets but they're they're um they're gable ends and it shows in your sections and to some degree the elevations that it seems like they're going back i'm going to call it around 60 well eight feet there's some on the on the garage side they're a little thinner i know no one's going to be in a hot air balloon floating around and or no one can ride on top of a a um wearing small helicopter to see all these things but i'm i'm just hopeful that they go back far enough i mean if it were me i like to take them back 20 feet or something because there's a point you can look at coffee parks some people are redoing homes and they have what appears to be a two-story house and it's not your room there but it's just a flag that if you do it do with enough delivery the landscaping is a wonderful tour de force of it's it's well conceived and i it's not an expensive the reason i brought up susan earlier was thinking about big rainstorms all kinds of roof front up to god 43 buildings and so it's it's 785 thousand gallons a minute per hour going somewhere and but it's between the downspouts and all these green spaces the beseos you you're all covered so and thank you again bill for commenting that everything passes great there you don't really need a lot of hard surface that's permeable so um again it's it's a really robust package i like the ideas that the ladders are now off the building this whole thing about trim and and contemporary farmhouse i think what makes a lot of contemporary farmhouse so i guess the word is endorseable is most of it's all the same color so your eye doesn't fight all this trim stuff and flying around with a belt line of white in between the windows if the belt line of white disappeared or if you know i'm almost willing to just say the whole project each building be its own darn color give me a charcoal building and a white building and now you don't even have this this ifus of of the trim but those are my comments thank you keep moving right on to kevin thanks uh trying to get this fairly brief um just uh piggybacking on the color conversation i thought you did a very good job mixing the colors in the materials from the last round there's probably a little bit of cleanup to do with the detailing and that would probably help that um if if you were to to to change the colors a little more i wouldn't be afraid to make some of the more so it was a little more bold i'm gonna get a little more color of the project initially i was concerned about this the white base color but then looking at the streetscapes you don't really see very much of it because they're three stories tall they're the the streets are fairly close together so you're rarely back enough far enough to see the white base behind everything so i didn't have too much of a problem with that um but uh as far as the uh the the high waist version on the screen right now i don't have a problem with that maybe if you do clean up some of the details there then you can get more along the lines about what um what might look a little bit better would uh as my colleague mentioned down on the end here a community room somewhere around the pool might be a good idea if there's a way to mix that in somehow i as an outdoor person i love the outdoor activities the recreation and all that kind of things and value that very much but not everybody's like me um you know kids with birthdays and things like that that might have a place to do that um as it is a good community uh just really applaud the open space the trail uh those are all really uh great things for this in this particular spot i thought the design with the retaining walls uh makes a lot of sense and would add a lot to the add a lot to the project through that venue last thing i think someone else uh scott mentioned the crosswalks or the lack of crosswalks it might be a good idea to mix in something there that maybe isn't a crosswalk per se but some of this says hey this is where people walk across um just so to let drivers know that to be a little bit more careful from a safety standpoint and then lastly i think you've heard some more about the lighting plan uh let's just make sure that it's not that beacon of light up there that's i think that's really important to the community how is it thanks say brenda well first i i do want to acknowledge what uh we heard in public comment that it it's always highly desirable to include a variety of housing sizes so that you can create a variety of income levels i appreciate that you have uh designed this so that it works for younger families as well as older people but uh you haven't really thought about a mix of age groups as or income levels as much as our public commenter would have liked and frankly as much as i would have liked i'm rather deferential to developers because it's your property and your design and i don't have any hook over you on forcing you to do um diverse housing types for diverse income levels but i want to just go on the record of saying i wish you had done that voluntarily i really like the pedestrian walkways and uh i'm glad that you have tied those into the trail system that exists on this site um i think the playground area is suited for seven to 12 year old kids but i didn't see anything for really little kids and that might be something that you look at again if you're as it seems you may be needing to come back and look at things i particularly would have liked to have seen the fencing around the pool and the fencing on top of the retaining walls i think that uh the last time we had you here one of our concerns was making certain that we had good viewsheds across that creek bed and that the retaining wall would not be interfering with that well that goes as well for the fencing on top of a retaining wall i'd like to be able to see how it enhances rather than limits the view beyond those things i'm going to be slightly agnostic on the colors i would have preferred stronger colors because i oddly you know prefer stronger colors and i found uh the basic neutrals were too safe um they were just um not not going to be memorable enough if somebody was looking at four different apartments you weren't going to be able to say i like the one in the building with the bright red wall it just you weren't going to be able to do that because it's not a bright red it's a very dull receding red so um i also didn't see how people in these units can make the exteriors their own whether there's space for them to do any um planting in pots anything like that i didn't see that on the designs and i'm confident that you've thought about how people will want to personalize their units but i didn't see anything that would leave me to believe you had done so so those are things that that i would like to see if you're coming back um you've already heard about the lighting and um and for me it's it's making certain you enhance this development more scott i know it's a comment period can i ask a question of the applicant please do i'll give you back the comments i made and then point the finger at war i was going to take one yeah it's on me so uh at present we've got a motion on the table for preliminary design review and uh no true leaning towards final um so i'm wondering if uh this is in the vein of your in the city process and trying to get a building permit is this into the world in all other aspects not walking out of here with final tonight that's the reason we're not really sitting up here more often with these mics uh end of the world no um highly problematic yes um that just depends on how soon we can get back i think it's unfortunate because we have that information i just think it's um it's uh it's it's it's cumbersome it's extensive it's a 74 page plan set for the common area landscaping i want to show you all that that's not a problem at all i think we were just trying to make it scalable and accessible and understandable um but i we're not by no means hiding anything so we're happy to show it to you the idea that final is uh something that might be easier to get to because like to your point it's not a public meeting so there's less noticing and that sort of thing but um um i i was very much like to leave with preliminary and final design review and a set of achievable conditions that staff can get to um but i don't um that would definitely be my preference um absent that i would i'm taking copious notes um but i think it would be important to know precisely what comes back for a final and some things are very obvious there's also a lot of commenting about bracketing and color and it's like do are we bringing that back to or you know just so i think it would be helpful to to get that um more of an itemized list to the um would be helpful so i hope i answered your question it certainly provides context for my commentary thank you so yeah i would agree it's an unfortunate situation that we don't have all the information that we would customarily have um i will publicly state that i personally don't think that the city council went remotely far enough with their resilient city ordinance and so the fact that if they went far enough with it this would have been seen in concept design and then we wouldn't have seen it again um which i think for a development that's gone through as much pain and suffering as this one has in the public eye um would have helped out immensely um the history of the project was spelled out quite thoroughly but it missed some intermediate steps of the city kind of doing a disservice to this applicant already and so those who are not aware of it is that they came i think it was in a november meeting and uh we're basically got punted and we're in a tough spot uh at the city council level because of the fires and nobody was really dead set on what we were going to do in a fire prone area knowing that we needed housing so i understand there was some reluctance to take an action but then when they were brought back in january they were again put at the end of the agenda and had to sit here for multiple hours waiting out the inevitable yes vote because everybody had already decided that they had made a mistake by not taking action at the first council meeting so knowing that history i have a hard time not getting to final with this applicant um because i do think it's a very robust project i do think it's a beautiful project um the projects that they're delivering on in our city right now from a landscape perspective are well beyond anything i've ever seen done in our city um before and so from that standpoint i'm very comfortable that the applicant in their 74 page um landscape plan is going to deliver a fantastic landscape uh yes unfortunate that we haven't seen it tonight um and so i'm i'm that's personally where i'm at across roads is that we need housing and we need to stop fussing around with the minutiae uh with an applicant that has a proven track record to deliver successful projects so that's where i'm at with my comments all that said i don't disagree with a lot of the comments i've heard um so is there a room for improvement probably is this going to be a successful project with the information that we've given the applicant tonight absolutely so i'll leave those as my comments on the project thank you scott eric i actually have one question for mr rose in regards to process um you know it because i'm not familiar with with the details of the process had we seen you know seen that there were some holes that we wanted answered is there a way for us to reach back out to say we'd like more information on this project before we give that that before we get to this stage today so that way it gives both staff and the applicant a chance to provide that information or postpone that meeting for a couple weeks to provide that information so that way it helps expedite the process of getting approval what is what is that process can we reach back out and it gets delayed or because it's not on the agenda you're talking about the different options that the board has relative to this project in terms of approval correct so if once we receive the package uh for in advance it's and it's sent out publicly for for the public to see as well and we see that uh we really like information on the landscape design we'd like some more information on lighting or whatever it may be can we reach back out to staff and say these are significant things that we'd like more information on before we meet to try and prevent a lengthy delay where it may just be okay we're gonna withdraw it and we'll put it back on the agenda two weeks later absolutely and staff recommends that so whenever a board gets a packet if the any of the board members have questions we always encourage the board members to reach out to staff to see if we can resolve those issues prior to the meeting so we can do that uh any future packets that come together if there are any questions relative to that packet you can reach out to me or to gary the staff planner you can we can relay questions that you might have for the applicant as well if you're requesting more information we can certainly do that uh if i might add just a couple of things relative to the discussion tonight it's my understanding that the applicant well as they just indicated as miss wagner indicated they do have quite a bit of this information i think the idea here as she indicated was not to to not provide that it was to provide a packet that was digestible it's a lot of information so a suggestion if the board pleases is that we could perhaps take a couple minutes and we could try to provide that information tonight graphically electronically i think they have it to see it and maybe that'll add to the discussion if not help move tonight's decision further maybe it would inform any direction that you might give them if in fact this project needs to come back for final design review so that's one suggestion um and then as we always do i would recommend we have a clear understanding if there is any direction going forward exactly what those items are that the board would like to see again um and we want to just ensure that the applicant has a clear understanding of that so there's no uh miscommunications going forward i'm going to jump in here as the chair and somebody who strongly supported the preliminary only motion and i just want to give you my experience the past four years pales in comparison to others who have been on the board longer but have been on the board long enough to read the tea leaves so when i see a staff report that asks for a preliminary and final and let me start by saying i echo every sentiment that scott made uh about getting housing built your process so far the quality of the work you're doing in the city as a as an appointed board member for the council um i also have a responsibility to meet the minimum requirements of my position here so i'm disappointed frankly that the basic items for preliminary design review are not in this package and i think that's on staff and i don't want to throw them under the bus but the bottom line is they're not here um being able to make a decision when those items aren't here and they're you know pretty pretty pictures and i don't mean that in a in a condescending way just you know i can see a landscape plan that's illustrative etc etc i go looking for the details i go looking for things like unit lights that are going to be allowed to be part of the project and i really do think about the fact that over the years we have had projects come back for final design review six months a year later when some misunderstanding about what was approved by design review or something that was commented on by the design review board and is and comes in differently in an approval set of drawings um gets kicked back has the world changed it it has it's changed everywhere um we sit in a tertiary market the the the price point is lower the expectation is either lower or higher depending on who you talk to um just came back from a design review meeting yesterday getting a four foot tall monument sign approved in santa barbara there's a spectrum of what we do and why we do it here but i got paid to fly to santa barbara have a twenty five dollar cheeseburger and get a sign approved so um i would love to be able to blow this project through to final tonight my concern is is that i don't know how gary and bill are going to communicate you know from um the landscape drawings that that are there what the size of the trees are supposed to be in the paseos and what the spacing are because right now there's nothing that indicates that in these drawings um the colors and gables and all those pieces that's that stuff is so easy to send through to final for these guys i'm already tipped to happen out um conditions up here as we go i try to draft them as i go along and gables and color and a few other things i'm putting in some of the comments with you know prefacing that with consider consider consider consider gary's here um bill overseas you know how those kinds of comments come back and what flies and what fits within what we do here but information that's just not here like like that is in those drawings is really hard for me to just say i'm going to let it go um if those plans are here tonight we can we can take a look at them um we generally get sort of a condensed version of those landscape plans um so i don't know i mean we can we can take a straw poll of the board as to who wants to look at the landscape plans tonight or some other things you know are we willing to grant final based on what we see tonight we could take a quick straw poll and just see where we are i would love to move this through for you that just that there's there's pieces missing and i need to i i need to point it out so um bill is there you know to eric's point the ship but let me go back i want to start back at the beginning when i see preliminary and final um in a resolution and i see not enough information in the package i immediately assume that the applicant is promoting for final and they're going to come out and do a wild dog and pony and they're going to try to push this thing over the line even without all of the necessary information so frankly you know bad on me i'm jaded to when i see preliminary and final without all of that information because we do get those that say preliminary and final and everything's in the package and it's a no-brainer um so i guess my eye instead of saying jeez is bill they'll never get final because all the details aren't in here we're gary um i just i expect that you know we're either going to see the information at the meeting or the applicant's going to come back so long-winded way to say i would ask the board who's willing to vote for final tonight and how many conditions we can put on the project or what we need to get there um and we could take that we could take that straw hole now sabra i'd be willing to stick around to try to get to final but i'd need to see the structures around the pool the fencing around the pool the fencing on top of retaining walls how those lights actually fit on the wall i think that's the the primary things i may have missed oh and the landscape plan and i'm sure that you if you have a complete work up you have that information but uh without that information i couldn't go to final so the whole idea of final design of you coming along with preliminary we've i think gone over the years through different versions of this we used to bring it routinely preliminary and final and then we said we're just going to bring preliminary and we're going to see how the discussion goes and we're going to see where the board is we're going to see what the conditions are are the things where the board feels final would be appropriate or could final be deferred to staff or absolutely not final has to come back and we've kind of we've done the full spectrum i think i think tonight what we have is an in an instance where staff and the applicants and i think the board as well have done our best to get a package here in a timely manner in an effort to promote a housing project that has a great deal of information and and deep as apologies from staff if that information wasn't to a degree that was enough to get a decision it's certainly not what we intend to do what would be i think unfortunate is if there is some information or some answers that can be given tonight by the applicant team that could move this further to final design review so if there is an opportunity that i would hope that the board would consider listening to that information i think there might be some information though that the applicants do not have but my guess is in working with this team for quite some time that they'd like to make an effort to explain what their what their desire is in terms of maybe for example these outbuildings these recreational buildings if they don't have the plans which i don't believe they have is there a way to get a designer a condition architecture to match the the existing buildings something that might move this forward i'll let them have that discussion so um it's a long way of saying we have a number of options here final can go to staff final can come back to the board final could be granted i think the applicants probably could address some of these items that we're hearing tonight um and again apologies from staff if the application package didn't have the full level of detail would it be beneficial to um take five minutes and let applicant and staff discuss what they'd like to do and i'd recommend that yeah we'll take a five minute recess call the meeting back to order um bill so in discussing uh everything with the applicant team they do have a lot of information it's an extensive list uh set of plans landscape plans i think in the interest of time and in an effort of cooperation they have agreed to come back for final design review we just we're looking at the calendar it looks like the next date likely date will be the 20th there is one on a meeting on December 6 there's a meeting on December 20th but December 20th is the more likely date so we can get a complete packet write a memo it's not a public hearing so we don't have to put a full packet together the board knows this well so the turnaround time is compressed and so i think that seems to be the the best approach for everyone the only thing as i mentioned earlier is we'd like to now go through and clearly itemize all the items that will be needed for that meeting and make sure everyone is in mutual agreement and understanding on those great so i think at this point i just want to i want to catalog what i have and i think we heard comments from everyone on the board but we'll go ahead and in the context of maybe knowing for sure what we're doing we could ask for items again but i will catalog for you what i have at this point and so i had a number one i had shall provide detailed landscape plan per the requirements of preliminary design review application including fencing design and it sounds like that's not going to be an issue and from my perspective from what i see in the conceptual landscape design it's probably going to be great so i don't have comments about what i can't comment on that would be from me number two shall provide design for pool and other amenity buildings number three consider simplification of architectural details it porches canopies and second and third floor building volumes so let's talk about what consider means consider means consider we made some comments about it we threw it in there i think that you know there was pretty clear information that came especially from the two architects regarding some of the i'll i'll use the technical term the fiddly bits that as drew likes to say that you know that's a consider and it's not something that come back with a come back with a different opinion about it you know come back and and and have added come back and have taken away i mean it's just i want you to understand what consider means i don't want you to be worried about that thing i really want to honor that i remember distinctly when you were at the concept review there was some concept about articulation and guidance about simplification you already done some of that and i want to honor you for it so there was response and awakeness and i had i i don't i don't have any comments in here about color i think that we made we made some comments about color but i i didn't hear anything that rose to the level of we're not going to prove the project because of the color i can make one last comment of my own which is i think that my concern about the naked about the about the beige background probably had more to do with the comment that warren clarified about maybe the colors need to be stronger and the colors are much stronger in your renderings than the colors on the board and and that may be that would be my final color comment but there was several comments about stronger colors so those are the those are the detail number four is going to be um uh lighting plan per you know again and this is per the requirements for preliminary design review package which we should have um a lighting plan that's keyed with light fixtures and the objective is again to keep you six months down the road from having to come back because bill and gary have to say the light fixtures change from what was in the drb package and now we've got to send you back so it's a safeguard and those are the only those are the four those are the four items i have fencing is in the landscape okay yeah quickly on color there's hue and there's value and hue is is the chromatics the value is just whether it's dark or not so you can take every exact color and if you just look at the value you drop the you know deeper that's just a tech tech thing for you excuse me true go ahead um yeah i was going to say something and it just went out of my brain and now it's back um with regard to uh your package um i'm glad scott said what he said um it's it's i think i don't think anybody on our board wants to be obstructionist to housing in any way whatsoever um and i i think for me when i see really complete packages like this and there are big glaring things i my head scratches about it and there's no doubt in my mind that you guys come back december 20th december 6th whatever and you'll be here for 20 minutes and then you'll be done uh because you'll have all the documentation and that'll be it um so i think that's where i'm coming from if it doesn't make sense i don't want to hold you guys up i want you to keep moving forward and i definitely want more housing in san rosa for sure i think like all of us do so i don't want you to think that i don't want your project to go so the other comment that was made was regarding providing our consider enhanced paving at crosswalks leading from main entries and i think we brought that up in the concept design as well um and then i did add condition six which is consider stronger accent colors just to memorialize it for all of us i think most of the comments fell into a fairly narrow vein of what was missing and a handful of considers um again fantastic design great partner in the community um we've got to dot the i's and cross the t's and we've you know there's just the the lighting plan and the landscape plan that the level of detail that's required we need for for a final so with that list of six conditions um any any should i read those through once more i've got those to send to you gary um but i'll start with one shall provide detailed landscape plan per the requirements of preliminary design review application including fencing design number two shall provide design for pool and other amenities buildings number three consider simplification of architectural details at porches canopies and second and third floor building volumes number four shall provide lighting plan per preliminary design review submittal requirements number five consider enhanced paving at crosswalks leading from main entries number six consider stronger accent colors um if those conditions are acceptable to the board and i've got someone who wants to provide a friendly amendment to add those six conditions as read i'll provide a friendly amendment uh endorsing said conditions second does the i accept a friendly amendment as read and the second with the motion on the floor and the friendly amendment can we get a roll call board members re-air gold schlug yes kinkade weigel hi zucco yes hedge peth hi and birch hi thank you very much we will see you before christmas moving on to uh we've noted earlier that item 6.2 is continued to a date uncertain uh any board member reports sabre at our last meeting i told you uh i was going to be part of the waterways advisory committee touring the roseland creek area there's a large swath of city owned and county owned land that uh is sort of a park but it's not a park yet and it will become one so the area is rich in possible neighborhood resources uh it's central it has paths through it um it has a very diverse landscape uh but it's also very flat which is positive park staff encourage that there be the installation of some playing fields uh soccer or other playing fields and some people in the neighborhood would like to see a more natural creek restoration and the establishment of some native woodland in meadow areas and this is important only because this is a the type of enhancement that is more and more development happens in roseland we need to think about um at some point in the past the creek channel was straightened and the bottom of the channel was paved and those are things that uh members of the waterways advisory committee encouraged the city to address and to restore a more natural channel to enhance the park area so it's a thing to keep your eyes on um i certainly look forward to seeing how the city tackles a potentially large and expensive project do they have um does the does that committee have access to do they control funds or or do they have not control funds but are they able to focus energy that leads to things like restoration projects or is that does that come out of a whole other universe they certainly have a role to play in um master planning they are advisory so they don't have the levels of uh authority that some other committees have but because they have a significant role to play in master planning for the creeks master planning for um pedestrian and bike pathways and um implementing creek work including massive amounts of creek creek cleanup across the city um they are significantly important so um what they don't do is control budget items and as the city now includes this part of roseland creek and two years ago it didn't now we have to look at how that gets uh integrated into our all of our master plans and uh how we work with the county since the county also owns some of the land here to really invest in something that could help roseland be uh a major beneficiary of our our planning process great well thank you for that report that's good stuff i suppose it's not the only thing in roseland that's gotta be brought into the city studied negotiated with the county and try to get something done next department reports anything bill well i had something sorry true it's okay um i just wanted to let the board uh know i guess since we are the design review board uh there's been a lot of efforts um in town uh by some nonprofits to provide some additional housing and so uh there's some nonprofits that have actually brought some products kind of to market uh one of them is uh homes for sonoma and then also uh habitat remanity has a project um on actually uh nearby uh this project actually it's at the old medtronic site i believe um so homes for sonoma is dropping five kind of adu units and winsor on a property and then they have funding for 10 more and uh habitat has funding for i believe 10 or 15 homes at their medtronic site so just want to let you guys know some non-profit work that's going on out there uh bringing housing and if you want to check it out check it out but it's pretty cool just want to make you guys all aware and also the public too how are you involved drew what's your what's your role if we wanted to learn something i'm actually the design architect for the homes for sonoma projects so if you're curious great thank you and with that we will adjourn