 You're welcome back. Well, we have the BVAS, an Electronic Transmission of Results on Election Day. These are things new to our electoral process. In 2019, there was a lot of noises to whether there was electronic transmission or not. In fact, one of the presidential candidates was allegedly strong electronically, if I may put it that way, until the electoral body that is INEC came out to say there was nothing like electronic transmission of results. Well, tech is here to stay now, and we are wondering how much of these can be homegrown and what kind of policies can make this come to be. Oladipu Po Polaji is a digital product manager and he joins us now. Good morning and welcome to the program. Good morning. I'm excited to be here. Okay. Well, everybody's excited in Nigeria, especially in this election because, like I said, there was no electronic transmission of elections before now. There was no BVAS, so technology has entered our electoral process and a lot of people are saying this might just be the turning point for Nigeria to have a free and fair election. But we still don't seem to know the importance of technology in Nigeria as a digital expert, as a technological expert. Give us just an insight as to how important technology is to Nigeria's economy as a whole. Yeah, thank you. So technology has come to stay and it has permeates every aspect of our life from our phones, from the way we communicate. In fact, everything around us, homes, schools, hospitals everywhere, we are now in an era of digital transformation, if we can say that. So it's not new to now see different government agencies deploying technology for different activities. So what are the drivers that is pushing technology, especially in Nigeria? So if you look at the future of technology in Nigeria, it's very bright because we have demographics, we have young people and young people that we have mostly, we call them digital natives. So they were born to operate smartphones. I don't know about you, but if you... Yeah, we were the... Digital alien. No, no, we call ourselves BBC, born before computers. So we came at a time the computers were not there, but we're grappling with it and trying to just fit in. But right now, from the look of things, I don't know if I'm wrong, but you are the expert, from the look of things, the youths that are mostly into technology may not have had that opportunity from when they should have had the opportunity. It's just something they have grown to meet and they are doing their best to fit into the technological world. But can there not be something that the country can do, the policies that can be done, to make sure that it is available to everybody, not just because you have a friend that has a smartphone and you're learning and all that, because there seem to be challenges and we have not even seen what kind of things that we can use technologies to do in Nigeria. I agree with you 100% plus one, if that is possible, because while I was in school studying computer science, the only place you can see a computer is at the computer lab, right? And some people graduate from school without actually touching a computer. But all that is changing now. The devices are becoming more affordable. We have a lot of startups promoting those innovations, training and all that. So I think the government also needs to support in terms of policy, have more digital incubation centers where people can go to and be able to have access to those physical devices, because all people actually need a way to experience those technologies and interact with it. Nigerians are smart people. Just give them that small opportunity. They will show their creativity and they will be amazed at that. So we need more investment in technology. We need investment also in infrastructure. Recently, you see what we've been going through using an ATM card to pay digital payment, transfer, not going network, because we're all of a sudden we're having increase in, you know, transaction. So we need that capacity to be able to undo that. And that capacity will come from government because there's only so much private investment can do. So in terms of lane fiber cable, those infrastructure, right of way for operators in that industry, lowering some of those costs, then exchange rates, because we are still, let's face it, we are still important dependent country anyway. So and as we are having those implementation in exchange rate market is actually not promoting investment in that sector as it should be. So if we could have that if businesses can plan to know this is the exchange rate, and this is the thing. This is government policy, at least for now is not going to change. And if it's going to change, we're going to have adequate information as to why it's going to change. We're going to be consulted as stakeholders, people can plan and we can begin to see investment in that sector. Like I mentioned earlier, the drivers are there. We have talent pool, people are very talented, ready to work, young demographic, we also have the market size. We are 180 million plus people and our language of instruction is English, which is a good market for technology. So we have all that. We just need that enabling environment that we always talk about. And those are the policies that needs to come in terms of education, STEM education. So we need to start learning coding from young, but not just learning it. We need infrastructure where people can go and practice and be able to innovate. So when that is at scale, we'll begin to see local solutions to our problems. So that's actually possible, that we can have local solutions to our problem to the standard, obtainable anywhere in the world. Just when we have the enabling environment. Sure, because if you look at it, every big companies, tech companies and everywhere in the world that you can find, you find Nigerians there also doing amazing things. So what's the difference? Environment, enabling infrastructure, environment, local support, especially at the universities. So we need our educational institutions to be up and be able to provide those curriculum that are centered around technology and what is happening now. So we don't want a situation where it's good to understand the history of what we're coming for, especially in computer science and code. But at the same time, we need to start teaching things that will make people ready for market. So the banks and everybody are complaining that people are Japan, that their technology experts are living abroad and cool. So that creates an opportunity for employment for tech people who are already a graduate to be able to fill their space. So that's the question we need to, that's why we need to upgrade our curriculum to be sure that as they are finishing school, they are ready to the market. No, let me just say, you know, on Saturday, we're going to the polls and hopefully we're going to have a new president. It must be a new president because the president administration cannot go back. So it's everything is going to be new, whether it's from the same party or a different party, but the figure ahead is going to be new. Now, if you had the opportunity to advise him on things to do first, to make sure that technology flourishes, because everything, even farming now is technology, education, everything is tied to technology. And if we don't start a deliberate attempt to make sure that we put the things that we need in place, we might not get to where we need to get to. So if you were to advise, let's say the president now, what are the first things you would say they should look into as policies that will enable technology flourish well in Nigeria? Yeah, we can't emphasize infrastructure. So infrastructure is key, but let's break it down. So we need telecommunication infrastructure. So we need that expansion in that area. So it could be a way of giving people more licenses to do that, to come and invest in that space. I don't know, but we need that telecommunication infrastructure. Very important. We've been able to manage our way around power. At least we're having alternate power, solar and coal, but it's still very expensive. So if we can get more done in terms of grid electricity, that would be fine. Then another thing that is also, I think, low-hanging fruit that we can begin to also do is to begin to address some issues by wealth policy. So one, getting our MDAs, ministries, department and agencies to patronize local solution provider, for example. So yeah, you could say that our solution may not be that beautiful in terms of the user experience, but if you don't give us that opportunity, it will not get better. So we can, at least when we are forming those projects in whatever, in that contract, ensure that there's a local partner in that. So the local partner could be handling the back end, while the more advanced foreign partners are handling the front end, or the local partner could be handling the front and back end, the foreign partner could be handling the security part of things till we develop that capacity to be able to do that. So another thing also that we can begin to do is to have policies that support cloud deployment. So when you deploy some of your infrastructure in cloud, the cloud has what we call agility and scale. So when you are eating it with traffic, it scales. Of course, you're going to pay more during that period, but you're going to satisfy your customer. So what that means really is that your transfer will never fail. Oh, I knew you had to bring that in. Yeah, because I knew I spent like two hours on Q yesterday trying to try different ATM card transfer and all that. So if we have some of those infrastructure deployed in cloud, just a matter of configuration, they will scale and be able to at least withstand this initial traffic that we're experiencing, then we can't over emphasize education. So we need education, not only learning what to do, but also learning best practices. So we need international partnership. At what point do we start that education? Because I don't know if the primary school you attended, you had opportunity of seeing a computer in school, but you went to the university, you studied computer sciences. There are a lot of people that they have a dream. They want to be computer experts and they want to do it in the university. But in this case, if we want this society to be technology compliant, I don't know if that's the word I would use. Where do we start from? Because when we're changing the curriculum, how do we change it? Do we change from bottom up or from top bottom? How do we change it or everything? So we need to go from bottom up top down. I don't understand. So top being the tertiary level, so that needs to change. And wanting to change there may not really be in terms of the CSC107108. It's just to be sure that those contents are things that we are teaching are market ready and relevant. So those theories, they are very good. They are the foundation of computer science. Those mathematics, those hard subjects, they are very good. But we need to bring it home. We now have the opportunity to find use cases all around us. So it's no longer as hysteric as to what is all this gibberish that this professor is talking about. So we need to change at that level. Then bottom up also from kindergarten. So that's what I mean by bottom up. Because from age one, our young ones are already interacting with computers anyway. The smartphone is a computer. So that means that we need to start teaching them what is coding, what is computer, how things work. And there are also programming languages at their level that are just drag and drop. They can use to create cartoon. They can use to draw animation and code. By the time you start exposing their mind at that level to that possibility of things they can create, even while in school, while in secondary school, they will start creating things, owning a company, forming a startup, teaching them businesses and entrepreneurship, you begin to see that you don't need to study computer science to be able to play in the digital space. Well, I don't know. When I first had an interaction with computers, we were like 350 in a class and there was one computer. I had a very long note, very big note that we were writing what is a mouse. We will define mouse like five pages of a mouse without touching it. And I discovered that after all these, I really didn't need all the the verbiage. I didn't need all the words that were given to me as book. I could have just touched the mouse and you tell me right click is this way, left click is this way. And because we didn't have access to that, I finished that course without knowing anything about the computer. I kept reading it and I didn't recognize it. I didn't know anything about the computer. Now this brings us to the cost of doing what you're proposing. If the government wants to do the kind of things that you're proposing, is it in this day and age? I'm not talking about when I started learning it, but in this day and age, is it that costly to infuse these things you're talking about in our curriculum and teach in schools? Speaking about cost, I would say yes and no. So no in the sense that we can just, you know, in computer there is control C, control V, because you should be able to remember that. I remember that. Copy and paste. So we can just copy and paste. So we have very good examples abroad. In fact, some of their curriculums are even open source. That means you can, from the social media, learn some of those things. So universities like Stanford, Harvard, some of those big universities have under the open courseware arrangements, release their curriculum, and even some of them, they are full classes online. So we can just copy and paste. So that way is not very expensive to implement. Of course, in terms of training and getting those infrastructures available, getting the boundary to all our universities and educational institutions, getting power available, you know, being able to have hosting infrastructure, because when you finish whatever you're doing, you need to host this somewhere on this server, somewhere on that server, you need to pay for it. So although we are not having local hosting companies in the country, which we do, we have three of them that I'm very aware of, and they are very reliable. Yeah, they're reliable. Are they also affordable? They are affordable in the sense that you pay in there. So you don't need to struggle for effects to pay all your foreign counterparts. So we need to encourage them to be able to scale up and be able to serve this local market that we have. So that is the area where you're going to have investment. But to just jumpstart, you just copy and paste. Okay. Now, the electoral system, we're excited that technology has entered. So before we wrap up, let's just look at it. People are excited about beavers. People are excited about electronic voting, not voting, electronic transmission of results. But can there be a time where we can develop to the extent that we can have electronic voting as well? Because I would want to vote in my village, because one of the reasons, I mean, Lagos, may be that things are not working well the way they should work in my local government. And I need to vote in someone that I think can change the story and all that. So I need to be able to vote even from Lagos for my candidate back home and anywhere I am in the world. So with technology, that's what people have been asking, that's what people have been hoping for, but I don't know how feasible that is. Is it possible that one day we can grow, especially with all these suggestions you've given to the next administration to the extent that we could have electronic voting? And then in answer to that one, I want to tie it to the fact that we have beavers and electronic transmission of votes. Does that give you any more confidence than you have had before in our electoral process? Okay, so talking about voting electronically, I think you already do that today. Do we? Yes, surveys. You feel surveys online, right? Yes, but election voting, we can't. So that's the same principle, right? So you have something to check, and you click on it and you get your result. So when you move it to the realm of politics, so it may just be whatever the political arrangement is, that may be the reason why you may not be able to have it or you may have it. So I don't know so much about that area. But when it comes to the principle of it, we already do that. So it's achievable. So the students, the writing jams, write CBT exams. They just click and click and click and they get their results. So the technology itself, the principle itself, we are already interacting with it. Interesting. So it's just the political will as it were to implement something like that for voting. But how bad rigging of that kind of a system is it possible? Okay, so your financial transactions can be exposed to fraudulent activities, right? So you have scammers and call. So anything that is electronic, that's why you have what you call data security, information security. So it depends on the level of your IT security. So of course you can break into systems. And that's why you also have practices that helps to prevent those things. And in technology, there's this balance between security and ease of use. So you add in your infrastructure so that at least to ensure that it's secured. So humans are the weakest link in any technology. So if you take care of the human factor, your technology is secure. Oh, okay. So Divas, electronic transmission, let's talk generally about this election. Does it give you more confidence now than you had before? Or you think it's just a failed state and nothing good will come out of it without technology or no technology? I have no opinion on that here. My man is trying to be careful. But at least you have said that whatever we've been dreaming of is affordable, achievable rather. Yeah, so technology enhances transparency, no doubt. And you have audio trails, you can get things. But you know, sometimes in many places, technology works best when it's not political. Why would you say that? Because of the interest that comes around it. So in banking, technology is working fine. So I know about that in FinTech. I know about that. But now that's a rain. Well, there is a lot of abracadabra when it comes to politics. Well, but we're hoping that gradually we'll get to that point where transparency, because of technology, will have such transparency that whoever comes to the throne as it were, we will believe that it was the people who spoke and installed whoever it is. And that alone helps to make the people have confidence in the government and feel a sense of belonging and feel a sense of ownership so that they can support the government as well. But for so far, I think we will thank God for small messes that at least we have the beavers and all that. The final word to the people, especially the youths who might want to venture into technology and the feel that the terrain is still too harsh for them, you are in it, you survived it. So let them know something. Yeah, there's never a better time to get into tech than now. You have a lot of information opportunities. The social media, the internet is there. You can learn anything just at the cost of data. So once you can get data on the phone, and I'll just advise them follow technology experts online, they are always ready to share, always ready to mentor, always ready to give back. So now they have everything to succeed, actually everything. They have the people contact. And we're also having companies now around us that are even big tech companies now opening shop in the country. So that's that's also another advantage. And it's also an area where you can sit down here and get remote opportunity. So you can earn in foreign foreign currency while you're in the country. So it's never, this is the best time for them to take that opportunity. And you don't need to study STEM sciences to be able to take that opportunity. So we have different career in tech, product management, user researcher, coder, project managers and all that. So even if you are humanities, if you study psychology, if you study sociology, you have a role to play in tech because tech is about people. Well, for the political magicians, because a lot of people just said that tech works better when it is not, it doesn't have politics involved in it, but we're getting there. And right now we're proud that our electoral system has some form of tech which is giving us the confidence that it will be a free and fair election, at least it will be transparent enough for us to see it as being free and fair. We've been talking with Oladipu Po biology who is a tech expert here with us today, and he's been giving us insight into the importance of tech and what the next administration needs to do to make sure technology or that sector of economy flourishes. Thank you so much Oladipu Po for coming on the program. Thank you for having me. Okay, we'll take a short break and when we return, remember that recently we spoke with a legal practitioner. We tried to x-ray the actions of the court and the actions of the Kaduna state governor, El Rufai, concerning the CBN or countering the CBN and even the president's directive over the Naira's scarcity. Barista, Abumere or Sarah, legal practitioner and not a republic spoke with us. Stay with us when we return. We'll bring you that quick.