 Welcome to Toffy TV today. I am joined by a man who scored the winner the last time Everton won made your honours. All away from the United States it is Mr Paul Rideout. Paul, thank you so much for giving up your time to have a chat with us. My pleasure, looking forward to it. You're all good, you're looking, listen you look like you could still be playing, you still look sharp. Not a day older than when you scored that goal at Wembley. I don't know, a few more wrinkles and whatever but yeah I'm trying to stay trim as you can and I see you kind of look at my sons now and they're all trim and so you try to keep up. You've got to having your mates. It was where Graven Sharp I think was moving on and they needed a striker with some experience. It wasn't too expensive and it played at that level. It was when the news came in that I was wanted by Everton. Obviously Howard Kendall was a great player in his own right. Everton, when I played against him with Salampton they were always a difficult team to play against, well supported. In that environment as a kid, nearly gone to Liverpool, you have a sense of what it really means up there. So at the end of the day I wasn't getting too many looks because Mark Haley was the number nine. It ranges so I wanted to give it a go and really excited to get the opportunity to go. It didn't work out too badly at all. Signed on the day before the first game of the season and played against Sheffield Wednesday on the Saturday in a one-month row in a game that I thought Barry Om was going to be a goal scorer midfield player because he actually scored for us that day. How wrong can you be? I think he only scored another one and that was in that Wimbledon game with Screamers. I was watching that. It was quite funny. It was a crappy goal, wasn't it? When he scored he makes it work for you well. Oh, not bad, not bad. But it wasn't the greatest Everton side obviously at the time. We were struggling a bit. How did you find it when you came in? I mean your second game for us. We beat United 3-0 at Old Trafford if you remember. That was obviously the first Premier League season. It was a tough season obviously. It wasn't a good dressing room because there was a lot of older players that were about to move on and there was some new players that had come on. People weren't getting on well with each other so the dressing room wasn't the best to be fair. Obviously the pressure of getting results at a club like Everton, which it always is every year, I watch even now. If you're halfway in the table it's not good enough, especially with the money they're spending. That said, I knew it would be tough. I said it before. I was in a school. The first season outside of that, everything else I really enjoyed. All I talk about is Everton now. I still love Southampton. It's my home club. Everton is where I really feel a relationship with. It's just purely frustration. It is anytime. They're proud people. It costs a lot of money to come to games. If players aren't performing, it is what it is. You've got to expect some of that. At the end of the day, you can't control everything. You have the good times, the bad times. When you get the good ones, like the FA Cup, scoring at Ipswich, staying up, that was one of my best moments, probably better than the FA Cup just because of the importance of it. The win-win game, but you don't want too many of those days. No, we really don't. We beat Southampton at our own 1-0. I remember driving home from my dad's car going home from the game and he'd resigned. We were puzzled as fans, but did you see that coming as a player? Or was it a shock to you? You never knew what he was thinking. He was such a lovely guy. He really was. More of a friend to the team than a man to it. I don't think the discipline was there enough. The fitness, when we moved on a couple of years on in Dogs of War, we were so fit and sharp. We all knew our jobs, but there we were almost playing off the cuff. It wasn't so structured. What I can't say with Ken was that I loved being around him. He made you feel wanted and he made you feel good. He was a lovely man. Coach-wise, I don't know all the time yet, he did a fantastic job for a certain time. I think there was much better players before than there were at the time I was there, including myself. When I'm looking at Andy Gray, for instance, I touched Andy Gray. He was fabulous. He was one of those I learned how to head the ball from. He wasn't the biggest guy, but his time and his greatness was fabulous. That's what I learned from. It was that type of time. We had a change and things move on. Walker, if you look at even Norwich, you might disagree. A lot of Norwich fans might, but I thought he got that job. He walked into that job when they were a top team anyway. He had a lot of good players at Norwich. It's nothing to do with a personal side. He didn't fancy me, but I would never say that about anyone. There just wasn't structure. There just wasn't a work ethic that you could say to yourself. We've got a chance to get out of here and push on and do something. It just wasn't there. As time went on, fans realised that. You could see if you asked any player, a majority of players, they would say the same thing. We needed something there that we could work off. You can't play off the cuff at that level. It just doesn't work. Structure is a be all and end all. It can be different. We were dogs of war and then you look at Man City. They played terrific soccer. He's planned that. He worked on that. He made those players over time understand that this is how it works. You can do your individual stuff. It was never going to work. Again, I thought I would be moved on and wouldn't be a part of it. It came to such a situation that they decided to make a change, thankfully, at the right time. We still don't have time to change it and turn it around. Obviously, you know what happened after. Before we get on to Joe Royal, I've asked Neville Southall to say all you need to know about Mike Walker. He's not as... You know what Nebs like, Paul? Nebs are not back with him coming forward. He's honest. He's honest. He's as it is. That Wimbledon game, you touched on it before, obviously. Things have happened and we'd found ourselves needing to win that game. The final game of the season and playing them when they were a side, weren't they? The tough side, big team, tough team. What was that like to be involved in? You're at the club and all of a sudden the park ends being knocked down and people are in trees and stands getting built and everything was crazy, wasn't it? It was. It started with the day of the game of driving a bus from the training grounds, parking our cars there and not at the stadium because of the aftermath if we did go down. Then you get there and the tension is not just the game, the whole build up to it, the whole week of it. It was all you could think of. You couldn't sleep. You didn't want to be a part of that team that would get ready to get it anyway. You get in there and then you hear, this is the biggest roar and I've been in some big games, the Celtic Rangers and all that sort of thing. But that roar, that particular day, never stopped, never dropped, two nil down after I think about 12 minutes and you're going. Again, I looked at the tape and I saw a couple of, Holdsworth missed a couple of absolute sitters. You're two nil down and we get a cracking goal to bring us back into the game and you're in there at halftime and we're down and you've got a lot to do. And Wimbledon don't care about anyone. If it's Liverpool, Man United, they don't care. They come and play the same way and they never give up. But no, I mean to be fair at halftime, the dressing room wasn't what you'd think it would be screaming and shouting. It was pretty calm. Everyone kind of understood that we had to go out there and give it everything. Again, the only way you really could do that is by the way that the fans treated us. They never once dropped their standard of keeping on our side. It was amazing. Two nil down. You had a deaf silence for about five seconds and that roar came back in. I've never heard anything like it and that's what kept us going and that's what got us the result I believe. Unbelievable, unbelievable. Never want to experience that again. Thank you. It wasn't great but we come out the other side of it. Joe Royal and Willie Donoughy come in and we play Liverpool at the bottom of the league. We play Liverpool who are third in the table. We tend to go top, I think, that night in there. Big Duncan, and then you. Get us three massive, massive points into Joe Royal's opening game. Yeah, that was in the way that they came in. We went into the gym and Willie Donoughy said this is how we're going to do it. And if there's anyone here that doesn't want to do it, off you go. Obviously no one did but it was just work right and organisation, everyone understanding this is your job. No more right now. This is what we need and we worked on it, worked on that. If you were coming to watch training you'd go, Jesus, I'd hate to watch that. I hate to be involved in that every day but it was what was needed. I think that when we went out to the Liverpool game it was probably the ideal game. If you can't get up for that one, you can't get up for any game. It was great atmosphere again and Liverpool fans were sending all sorts of messages out there at that time. Free was a run down to the game and it was a pretty slow start by us. They had a couple of opportunities and we would have looked a little bit nervous but we built ourselves in the game and Duncan himself a great, great goal. That's what he was really strong at, bullying people. They gave us an opportunity to work on being 1-0 up but like you said earlier that we were throwing those things away. But now we had a plan with the defensive side of it that we'd stay strong and stay solid and everyone knew their job and stuck to it. We had a lot of workers out there that were willing to do that. Duncan was a much, much better player than I was in the respect that he had some serious pace. He had a fantastic touch for a big man and he had great, great vision. He had a lot going for him and it made my job easier. I felt like I was a good technical tactical player that could pick up the bits and bring in the midfield and use the white guys. But anyway, all said and done, I got the opportunity to come on at halftime and it gave me enough time to get into the game. Obviously the goal I felt was not just important but one of my best goals because it was so awkward. And I didn't think I would get there in the way that I came in and bullied it. I went through someone's legs so it was fortunate but at the end of the day I felt it was a really good goal. But that did so much for your confidence. But that said the next game I started and that confidence from that to that I just felt like I could do anything because I had Duncan up there. I had a midfield that was so hard working, so organised and so tough. I wouldn't want to play against Barry and Joe. They go through anything. And we had a solid defence all of a sudden that we're working on certain things that Willie had instructed to do. We didn't lead gaps in the back end and that little run we went on of beating some really good teams at the time. It was pretty impressive. So that you grow on that and obviously with everything else with it, the feel good factor, the fans were back again and enjoying their soccer. It just felt a much, much better place. It was incredible to watch the team. The West Ham win, which was the last home game walker had, was a navy win. You were throwing yourselves in the way of shots. We should have beaten them by more. We had the answers, but then they missed the couple at the end and it was navy. The difference between that team and the team that took the pitch against Liverpool or rather finished against Liverpool at night, we were a good side. It was like night and day, the way, right, the ethic. Was it something in terms of the fitness, did Joe and Willie notice that immediately? Was this like listening you aren't fit enough? Did you feel out as players at the time? Or are you just in that zone of this is what we do? And you're thinking I'm a pro, I'm fit? Yeah, you do. You do and then you have a wake up call. But I think along with the fitness, it wasn't just that it was a mental side of it. If you're, like you said, if you're not on board and I don't mean just your soccer or just wanting to be here or be in the team. It's like you have to throw yourself into this. Now, every pro should do that every time. But we weren't. And when you're not winning the confidence, it's hard. There's times when I've been on the field in some games, not particularly with Everton, but in general. As an older player, you get scared of missing. Whereas a younger kid, like I said earlier, you don't have that fear because you know that. And the next one I come on, I don't care the crowd, I don't even care. And that's what that was. It was a whole confidence factor of what they brought. And you can be the best player in the world. Everyone has a downside of bad time going through that. I just felt that you look in the dressing room, everyone's talking, everyone's buzzing, everyone is looking forward to training there. And looking forward to getting on the field. We were dreading getting on the field and thinking, I don't want to let the fans down again. And it doesn't matter what level you play that, you go through that process. But Joe was so good to go into his office, even if it was nothing to do with anything. You're so welcoming. And you felt like there's any problems anywhere that you could just talk to him as a normal person. And I wouldn't go any further. I just enjoyed that time with those guys. Absolutely outstanding. You scored six days after that. You scored a winner at Chelsea. Can you believe that we still haven't won there in the league since your header? I know I keep getting mentions again. I keep living off those little things. It's not a good thing. That's the problem. I'm one with James. But yeah, that's crazy. I actually scored another one in that game. But there was nothing wrong with it. I was mystified when he called it off. That was a good choice of team as well. We just went out there and we just bumped him. They didn't have an answer to what we had, because I think we just surprised everyone without giving them any kind of time. That was a lot of good, solid players in midfield. It was excellent as far as tactical and technical. But work rate, they were over the top a little bit and we took advantage. And a terrific win that one. For you, playing with Duncan, because obviously there was so many times in your career where you were the target. Even though Duncan is a big lad, but you were the target. Was that something? Did you have to learn to play with a big man? Or were you just like, great, he's going to take the knocks and I can try to pick up the bits? Did they make your job easier or what do you prefer being that focal point or not? It did. I love playing with Tony Cotty as well. He's a good striker to work off. He's probably clever, very intelligent. But what it did for me was, I still won my fair share ahead of us, but I didn't make all the knocks all the time. You see defenders at times were scared of Duncan because he wasn't scared of putting the elbow in him. And he was a clever player in that way. Even in training, I wouldn't want to come up against him. He just knows how to use that body well like Shearer did when I was at Southampton. He was so clever. Yeah, it totally gave me more energy. I felt that I was, in this day and age, I would have been an A. I wasn't quick and Duncan on the run was quick. So, I thought I had nothing in my game to be able to work off that and still do some of that and then get into the box a little bit more often. So, maybe that, therefore, I was getting more goals. If you scored your first cup goal in the five-nil against Norwich, we'd had a... We beat Derby County in the third round. It wasn't a great game. Hinscliff scored late on. And then Bristol City away. I mean, I still don't know today. Still, 25 years later, how we got through that game because we got battered in me. And then Matty, we had Matty axing him before Christmas and he was like, I don't know what happened that day. I just did it with me swinger and it goes into the net for real. I apologise to the fans after the game. That was, yeah, we were shocking, shocking, these straights. And then that's what you need though, a little bit of luck that you sometimes don't get. But yeah, that was a big, great escape that was. It could never have been. No, but name on the cup stuff, wasn't it? Yeah, but after that, it wasn't an easier run all the way through to the final. All good teams. So we earned that right, I think, in the way that we were playing. That is where we got too big for our boots, but we learnt from that in the Derby game and the next one. Derby game was tough. It wasn't an easy game. But then, like you say, the Newcastle game was a good game. They were a side, weren't they? They were a good side. They were. And a great goal to win the game. You get to top them. I just fell on that day, and I think the group did, that top them for the team they were individually. I mean, great forwards. Their defence was their weakness. We just fell and could exploit that because they weren't fabulous in the air. Top them was one of my more favourite teams to play against because they played it the right way. But they never seemed to have central defenders that were tough guys. They were just technical smart players, good soccer players, but not particularly good in the air. So I always felt that I would score against them and just have feelings against certain teams. It was unusual. What was it like coming out of Elin Row that day? Because the way they distributed the tickets, they gave spares that big stand. But we had the three sides. We were being a fan in that ground that day. It just felt like a home game. It was just blue everywhere. What was it like for the players coming out onto Elin Row that day? Well, it was fabulous for us because you look round and you realise, where are the Tottenham fans? And they probably got that big stand. We never heard of it. The fact is we never gave them a chance to start singing. We got first goal and from then onwards we never looked back. The game was never a game, I don't think. We just stunned them. I think at that time everyone wanted the Tottenham man United final. We were having none of that and our fans were again exceptional. To be fair, how did we get Elin Row? Because that's not far from us compared to Tottenham. Everything was on our side. Again, in itself, that was the strange game. Matt Jackson was scoring a header, putting us up. We needed to chat about you in this. We needed to chat about you because first of all, you almost make it 2-0 and Graham Shew put in your shot. It's a good shave from the keeper. Graham Shew rolls it in for 2-0, which is incredible. I underestimated that finish. Great finish, but what happens? Because you went down injured. We've heard all the stories from Tio, from Ammo, and the press that he subbed himself on. You were getting treatments on the far side. I said to the physio, he's not effing bringing him on, is he? I'm going back on. Tell him. It was just one of those things where all the way back, as I was walking around, fans gave me a fantastic reception. I was effing and blind and I was down. How did this happen? Once you get on then, then he comes on his course straight away. What can you say? That guy was such a happy guy. He's such a cool guy. He's a top-young player at the time. In essence, it was fortunate for me because my knee was damaged. In a way, he did me a favour because I probably would not have made the fine. I was struggling to make it as it was through the treatment. He came on, he lit it up. It was a different type of player that they couldn't handle. It worked out for everyone. It's just a madman. Obviously, it is lucky that he came on. Obviously, because we wouldn't have wanted to lose you for that. It was such a mad game coming on. I suppose his pace on the counter attacked near the end, probably played into it. That was the only goal we conceded in the whole cup run. It wasn't even a penalty. Sharon bought the penalty. He was very clever in both the pen. He was not a good player anyway. I don't think for any minute in that game that we felt we were going to lose that. We were so relaxed. It was just a reward for getting out of the mess we were in. This was a bonus all the way through. Other than the Bristol City game, a lot of us have talked about it is that it just felt comfortable going through in every game, the Newcastle game. It might have been different in Newcastle, but playing in our home ground, you just didn't feel like you were going to lose that game. Going to Tottenham and then even the final. It's our time. It's such a belief of the team. You mentioned it right before, but we were on that really good run. Remember, we had three own games on the run. We had Southampton, Wimbledon and Chelsea in a week, all a goodness, and it was when one drove on the sand. More or less we were okay. We drew all three of them. Two nil nils and a three three, which meant we ended with two away games. We went up to Ipswich, which was a real tricky game, because they were difficult to go to Portman Road, but you come up with a massive goal at night, didn't you, to secure our status? Actually, I think that's when the team realised, let's just get it done. Let's give ourselves a game to enjoy before the final so that we can work on stuff. Ipswich was our weakest opponent. They weren't doing particularly well. But given how far that is away, on a weekday peing down the rain, the fans are phenomenal. It was just excellent. We never felt like we were going to lose that game. There's one nil, but it should have been more than that. After that game was where you just say, hey, we can just enjoy these next two games. Even though it's the last home game in the season to thank the fans, and then, obviously, Wembley, you're going to enjoy it. If you've got that last game, you're still worried about relegation, it's a big issue. We got that out of the way that the goal was kind of a fluky goal, but it was an important one. That was actually a better feel than the FA Cup because of the importance. Again, it just is. You can win a cup, but if it's not league, then what does that all mean anyway? Going home on that trip, we had a great trip back, enjoyed it, and you're just preparing for the final. It was such a huge win. You write it, we still had Coventry away, everything was done. Everyone was like, forget the Coventry game, it's Wembley now. Obviously, in that little period, we'd lost Duncan as well. We had Duncan struggling as well. I think Duncan came on at Coventry the last half an hour or whatever. We ended up drawing, but then you were saying you were struggling in the week of the Cup final? Yeah, just with pain on my ACL inside. I felt I'd be OK for the final, but it was one where I couldn't play the Coventry game, and Joe was good enough to give me a rest. Obviously, that shows the importance of winning the S, which gave me an opportunity to do that. What I'll always think about is that when you look at the final, and then you look at Duncan's on the bench, and I'm stunned, that amazes me, because it's probably not right, because he's far superior than I was. But I think that I was in good scoring form, whereas Duncan wasn't scoring as many. It was a good season for me, and I just felt like I'd scored every game. I think that was where Joe Royal made that decision, I think, about the kind of premises that I would deliver. I actually came off at half-time, and Duncan came on and did a great job for us. But I was really surprised that I was starting that game, so I'm thankful for it, and things worked out, so it was good. You ended the season with 14 goals in 29 games. You were our top scorer, one and two in the Premier League. That was just Premier League goals, by the way. I think it was something like 17, 18 or whatever overall. You fully deserved your place. I loved Duncan, but he was never scoring that kind of goal. That many goals that you were getting, he was more the focal point. For me, it was a no-brainer that you were starting. I remember being in the crowd, and it was whether Duncan was going to make it on the bench, and him and Amacati were on the bench, and that gave everyone a boost. I've said this to Matt Jackson, it was so weird. We were on. We were a team that had you scored the goal only 10 days earlier. But that second half of the season, we were on a great run. We beat United at home and things like that. I was that confident going to Wembley against a team that had lost the league on the last day of the season. A week before we were going for the double. When Graham Stewart hit the bar, I didn't follow the ball. I just looked at the net, expecting the ball to hit the net. It hit the net. I'm expecting it anyway. I didn't realise you'd scored the first, because obviously, Bedlam breaks out. I've just seen the ball hit the net. Running everywhere, tears in my eyes. That team had just created that for our fans. We just expected to beat the team. Now, when I think about it, how did I expect us to just beat United then? We were 15th in the league and they were second, but that's how good a run that team had turned in in that second half of the season. Again, that goes down to management. Obviously, the players, you do your part, but without the leadership, it's very difficult. That's why the importance of having a solid manager that not just understands the game. That's why Pep, I love him, because he's such a manager, he plays manager, but he's so smart with everything. There's not many of them around. I won't mention Klopp, but at the end of the day, I think we've got one now with Angelotti. I think he's with the experience. I played against him in Italy. A fabulous player. I just think that it was a great manager to bring in at this time with such a strong squad. I think he can bring it together. That's what belief is. That's why the wing games, you have that belief, not just ability. You look at Man United, they've got a lot of ability, but they have no concept of team play in my eyes right now. They've improved, but they're still there and over there, and that's what we were. We still lost games, but we knew why. Sometimes it was just pure good finish, and sometimes it was... We didn't finish our chances, but there was a reason for it. Going to the Cup final and playing in front of, again, it felt like a home game. It really did. Whether Evertonians allowed it or not, I don't know, but you couldn't hear anything else but them. When we were out there, if you look at the entire game, we were outplayed, but then they had some great plays at the time. They had a solid defence. They didn't concede much, they were second in the league, but they had something really to come out. They didn't want to come out empty handed. That was a danger for us. We were second, we ran out and enjoyed it, so there wasn't pressure in the way that it would normally be, like the last game you've got to stay up. So it wasn't there, and you didn't feel it. You just enjoyed the occasion, and I can remember every minute of it, but Man United, the best part for me, is you understand how much it means to Man United fans and their team, is when we went into the bar afterwards, and we saw six or seven of them over there, silence, not a word to each other, looking over at our table, and we're just loving it, and they're going, I think you just lose to that. You could see it in their mind, discussed, but that's soccer, and I don't think they respected us enough. And again, Neville South, we had a phenomenal game, and Dave Watson was unreal in the middle there. It really was a defensive play, rather than everyone remembers the goal, but the way that we defended as a group was what was brought in at the start of the season, and it stood us well over that whole season, right to the last game, and that was a difference, but at times to win a cup, you need luck, you just do, and we certainly had it on the day, but what a great day. Was it a surprise when Joe left, because it surprised us as fans? Yeah, you don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but that really did surprise me, and it's a bit sad to be honest, how it happened in the end, but that's soccer. When you look at the last of 10 years of Everton, and how many coaches have moved on, I just hope this is one where we have that stability of four or five years, and really, if you look at all the best teams, the teams that have done really well over time, the managers have been there for a long time. If you look at Liverpool man United, with Ferguson and Man City, he's been there four years, five years now, they're all his players, and it does take that much of time. People don't get that much time now, but I just believe that we have the right person now, and that it is what it is, so fingers crossed it works out. So your last appearance for Everton, was obviously Dave Watson took over for a couple of games, and you weren't involved, and I don't know whether you were injured, or you just weren't involved, but then you were at the playing centre midfield against Tottenham at home, and you were absolutely brilliant, I think you were a man of the match, we won the game 1-0, Gary Speeds scored early on, and then you left on a motorbike, and that was the last we saw here. I mean, how did the midfield thing come about, and what was the story with the motorbike? Well, the game itself, I think we had an injury in midfield, and I just said I could do a job there, because I played with Glasgow Rangers as a centre half in a couple of games, I got a man of the match there, because it's Scotland, and at the time, Rangers were magnificent, they could beat anyone. I don't mean that about Scottish Soccer, it was good, it was a good lead, but then I told the coach that I felt I could do a good job, I was fit and I could get around the field, and I, again, I thought I had decent vision, so it worked out really well, it was a good game, and it was a tight game, but Speedy came in with a great goal, like he did, a fabulous player, and it just worked out for us. It was a really, really enjoyable way to leave the club, kind of almost taking him out of danger, but I was supposed to, Dave Watson told me, you're staying for the Liverpool game, and I said I can, otherwise this deal is going to go sideways. I said I'm begging you to let me go, and in the end he said, you can go, which is cool of him, and obviously getting out of the dressing room, and then someone told me I had so much time to get to the plane, and he said you ain't going to make it by car, and I've got a buddy that, we've got a motorbike ready for you, so ran out of there, ran out of the dressing room, jumped on the bike, and trying to beat all the traffic, it was crazy, and people doubled taking so they could see where it was. It's like, what the hell's going on there? It's just weird, and I want a crazy life, so there you go. What a way to finish your Everton career, just on the back of them all, finished it on a whim. Kept us off, we won the game, and you get off to the airport on a motorbike like Jason Bourne, not a bad way to finish, not a bad way to finish. I mean, enjoy that 108 degrees heat that you're having there while we switch our heaters on over there. Listen Paul, thank you so much for taking the time. I really enjoyed talking to you, thanks so much, appreciate it. It was outstanding. Best wishes on to Jordan, because we speak to Jordan through Twitter and all that, and obviously you miss us for shortening it as well, outstanding Caroline there, so thanks, stay safe, and hopefully you'll get to Tiatr here again at some stage in the future. Cheers, thanks a lot, take care. The brilliant Paul Ride out there scored the goal the last time we won a major trophy. Thanks so much Paul for taking the time out. Make sure you give this video a thumb's up, subscribe if you haven't. If you want to see the full uncuff version of this, get over and join us on Patreon. See you later.