 I think part of that is, we were so dream, like romance. You know, it's supposed to be a spark. Hi, people trying to take romance. What's wrong with romance? This is what's wrong with romance. You about to kill romance? I'm about to kill romance. That's loud. I feel like romance, particularly in our community has fucked this up drastically. Listen, it's the message right here. Black boy, tell me how you really feel. Cause I just want to be with you. Black girl, tell me how you really feel. I want to keep it real with you. I want to live better, eat better. I want to love better, sleep better. Yeah, I want to feel so aligned. You were talking about heartbreak and what led to the divide. Oh yeah. You know, we always talk about going back to slavery too. Like that whole, you know, breakdown. I feel like the disrespect from that time. Like, I feel like you see your men get disrespected like in front of you. And there was nowhere for you to run. You know what I'm saying? So I feel like that made him feel less then and that, you know, made you feel less then after that. Then there's that whole like pimp and hole era, which I feel like is a backlash from that. And then that's just a representation of how we kind of move around till today sometimes. So I feel like that's a big part of it. And just self-awareness like you could be aware of that but then you could be dating somebody who's not. You know, so then being glee old. It's like, like how we were talking about earlier about it being revolutionary. Like it's like all of that on top of just trying to fall in love. It's like outside of just simply trying to fall in love, you have to fight so many other battles first before you can even get to each other. So I feel like that's the biggest to me problem. So what, the way I like to ask this question is like, what role did black men play in helping white supremacy divide the black family? I feel like they just fell in line. I feel like they never fought. I feel like that's the role they played. So. Okay. What role do you think black women played? I mean, I guess you got to say they fell in line too but I guess it's like not seeing myself, right? But I don't know. I don't know a role. I couldn't speak on that right now. I feel like everybody was just trying to survive for one. And I feel like the biggest role we played with each other is that we didn't forgive each other. Like we never took the time to forgive one another for the shit that happened to us. So there's a book by Shahara Zahraadi. It's called The Black Men's Guide to Understanding the Black Woman. And in the book, she makes a point that I think is interesting. She said maybe deep down somewhere in the black woman's psyche is a resentment and a fury for the black man not being able to protect her during slavery. Right? So the reason I ask that question sometimes is a lot of times it's very easy for people to say this and this and this and this is everything that is doing wrong. But when you flip it and say, what are women doing wrong? It's something wrong. But listen, I'm gonna say this though. Like I'd be on their side of that track too. And there are things that women do wrong. If we were talking about like dating relationships I could point those out swifter. But when you are talking about slavery, I don't, with that, I don't know what to say. No, not slavery. How did they help white supremacy? Because I feel like us being separated is not because of us. It's because of white supremacy and the fallout of that. Okay, well then I, okay. So if you put it that way I can tell you were a black woman messed up. I felt like we made a fell for a lie. Like I felt like we might've got fed a certain dream and we went in line with it because of the resentment towards the black man already. And because of him not having it together, I guess in our eyes, we were like, okay, we'll go be strong and independent or we'll go, you know, building our own or welfare. You know, so different things just falling in line in that way, choosing the easier way out versus asking the man, do you have a plan? What is the plan? Can we start here? You know, that conversation never took place. Do you feel like our women empathize with our men? I feel like maybe once upon a time. Mm, we'll change. I feel like even now they are but I just feel like everybody's guarded. You know what I'm saying? Cause like, I feel like you love somebody. Like it just, that happens. Like you don't even get to choose it. You know, it just falls on you. But I feel like immediately people like throw the guard up cause it's like last time I felt this shit. You know, so. But I definitely feel like it's there. Well, let's talk about it. Do you feel like people are, you think people are approaching love pragmatically or do you feel like they're just going off of vibes? I feel like both. I feel like it'd be vibes until logic kick in. Isn't it supposed to be backwards? Shouldn't it be logic and then logic kick in? It should be, but does it always happen that way? It should. It should, but does it always happen that way? It doesn't. It does not. It usually does not. Why do you think it doesn't? Cause I feel like people are honest with themselves at first. You know what I'm saying? I feel like that shit comes later. I feel like, and I feel like I'd say this back. I feel like you are honest with yourself but you're not outside, like outside of yourself. You're not honest with yourself or that person. So I feel like you kind of just rely on the flow, the vibe or whatever. And then later it's like, oh shit, now I gotta figure out my feelings. We should have did that ahead of time, but it doesn't always happen that way. I think part of that is we were so a dream, like romance, you know, it's supposed to be a spark. Hi, people trying to say romance. What's wrong with romance? This is what's wrong with romance. You about to kill romance? I'm about to kill romance. That's wild. I feel like romance, particularly in our community has fucked us up drastically. Oh, I see that. So there's a, there's a philosopher, he's British, his name is Alianne Debutton. And he said that our current idea of romance was invented by unemployed European artists. Romance has a poor quality. And the reason that's important is because a lot of the aspects of what we consider romantic aren't sustainable. They don't lead into old age. They contradict themselves. So for instance, one of the most romantic things people think of is long walks on the beach, watching the sunset together. That's easy to say when you don't have a nine to five. That's easy to say when you don't have a five year old screaming, right? So the problem with romance is that it doesn't take into account real life. It's a fantasy. It's the highlight tape of a fantasy. And the reason I say that's important is because a lot of us, especially our women, I'm gonna call y'all out. Y'all prioritize those things over things that are gonna sustain. So for instance, the reason, kind of going back to our conversation earlier, the reason why our future is always gonna get more bitches than Russell is because he's more of a peacock than Russell. And what do you mean by peacock? Glassy, showy, you know what I'm saying? It's glittery, it's shiny, right? It's the dream. Exactly, but is glittery gonna raise your children? Is glittery gonna help change a diaper when you're 60 years old? But my thing is I understand that on the extreme side, but you can't completely take romance off the table. There's nothing wrong with, you got a screaming five year old, you can still make time to walk with your woman and look at a sunset. Even if they screaming in the back. But that's what I'm saying. I don't think romance is bad. I think romance should be a product of pragmatic. And everybody's romance is different too. Somebody's romance is just you washing the dishes. You know, somebody's romance is just you washing the dishes. I like that, I like that. But that's not, that's not the popular idea though. I don't think it's popular as far as like fantasy and fantasy is just like sex sales, fantasy sales. It is what it is. People like to live in a dream sometimes until they can get to reality. But my whole thing is there's nothing wrong with, it's just reinventing romance. Like I said, some people, certain things that you wouldn't even find romantic or fantasy wise is like that for them. So there's nothing wrong with adding that in there. Don't kill romance. I'm all about you gotta kill it first. You gotta kill it first? Why? Well, I feel like particularly in our community our dynamics are so messed up until we're willing to, it's kind of like the military, right? I feel like you want to go almost Asian style with this. Militant. You want love to be militant. No, no, no, no. I'm saying as far as like dismantling love I think it should be a militant approach. When you enter the military the reason they put you through all that stuff is because they wanna break you down and build you back up. And romance. That's a good point too. Romance particularly in our community because what you have to remember is we're the demographic who consumes the most content. Nobody watches TV more than black people, right? And also one of the things I know about psychology is when your real world is fucked up you will escape to a fantasy, right? So niggas play 2K because they have hoop dreams. Niggas play Call of Duty because they wish they were their own action star or whatever. Women escape to movies. Women escape to rom-coms and things like that. And the problem with that is you create expectations for yourself that will never be fulfilled. So you can't ever be satisfied with your life because you feel like there's something missing. Even though that something missing is something that can't actually happen or sustain itself in real life. And all the stems from romance. All the stems from romance. From fantasy. Fantasy, yeah. And like I said, I'm critical about dudes too. I'm like, yo, like if you claim you wanna be a boss you claim you wanna make six figures you can't spend six hours on Call of Duty. It doesn't work like that. That's a fact. In a fantasy world you could and do both, you know? But in life you gotta pick. So I'm not saying we should kill romance but I'm about the romance of like watching dishes do something for you. You know what I'm saying? I'm taking a trip every week. Like, do you know how much that costs? Yeah. People don't ask questions. Like, people ain't doing that. That's true. But also I'm a big believer because I live my life like on the daily as you can see I just popped up here. But there are ways to take trips and all that and still it can be affordable. Like people don't understand that. So you don't have to be, I feel like a lot of people once again like you said fantasy or whatever like that they look at it like, oh I gotta have 10 bands to do this or that, you know? Half of the time you just need gas money. You know what I'm saying? I feel like some people don't even do the research because they're so lost in the fantasy maybe. But I make my fantasies reality daily just fine. So that's why when you're like, oh you can't walk in the park and have a five-year-old, why not? I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I do think when it comes to like relationship though and considering two people I don't think we talk enough about love languages. I don't think we talk enough about compatibility, enneagram scores and different things like that. We just talk about do we click, right? And I think what's scary about that particularly in our community, what clicks for you if you live in Brooklyn at 18 years old isn't gonna click for you when you're 30. You got a master's degree and you have a job and you're trying to build something with your life, right? But if you tie yourself down to what clicked then it's gonna drag you down when you're trying to build something, when you mature. Because we can't fight time. Well that's more like, that's up to the household and how that person is raised because you can't also foresee somebody's future. Like you can't force somebody who's 13 for one to be dating the same person realistically. And then two, I mean, you either go out and grow with the person or not that's just life and experience. We can't control that outside of like I said how they're raised and their own thought process. I think that's true. I think I guess the reason why I preach so much about it is because in our community there are a lot of people with either absent parents or unqualified parents. So I'm concerned about them too. Because what tends to happen is they grow up and then they, white people put them on pedestal to help shape our culture and set paradigms that are destructive in our communities. So like I have to care about them too. And unfortunately, like from a psychological standpoint people don't really change that much after teenage years. They really don't. Their influences are kind of set in. They're set on a certain path and it is what it is. Well I think that's why community is so important. So I mean doing things like this on a broader scale. You know, I'm seeing involving children of all ages in it, you know, kind of having therapy set up. That's something that I kind of want to look more into. So community is key. Because everybody, even if you don't have like a, if you have both absent parents even you're going to find your person. Like to me, I just like God always seems an angel. So somebody's going to click, somebody hopefully of good nature is going to click onto that child, hopefully. But I also think that depends on you too in your own spirit. You know what I'm saying? So how are you moving? Because I've been in the world. A lot of things have come my way that could have taken me under. I didn't make those choices. So it falls on you as well. One of the things I'm really interested in is the paradox of choice. Like I feel like choice is really complicated. It's a big thing. You know what I'm saying? Because if my backup is up against the wall somebody can say I can make a certain choice. But in that state of mind, I really can't. But my whole thing is, that is when you determine character to me. So do you feel like people are born with character? I feel like you're born with spirit. Like good spirit, bad spirit. You know what I'm saying? Like energy. I would have liked that. I feel like character forms. Like I even get excited when I see kids and they start like doing things. I'm like, oh their personality is starting to pop out. But like what does it come from? Cause I don't want it. I'm afraid. I don't know what to do. I'm afraid to condemn babies. I'm afraid. To condemn babies? Why would you condemn babies? Because I feel like a lot of our, a lot of the ways we think about it is like some people just have it and some people don't. Not considering the trauma. Not considering the fact that they were born from a crack baby. They were a crack baby. That goes back to lineage though. You know what I'm saying? That's spoken even through Bible. So like that is life. And so our black people damaged. Cause based on our lineage, we come from the worst trauma that's ever happened to anybody. I mean, if you want to get into all that, I'm going to just say that we're all damaged. Like nobody gets through life without getting fucked up. Like, you know what I'm saying? So... But I'm saying like, life trauma is different than generational trauma. I'm talking about the generational trauma. Oh yeah, definitely. We all know that. We've sat, I mean, I think we've all, even through social media thing, have all said we all need therapy. This is a form of therapy. You know what I'm saying? So I feel like, yes. So like, how do we choose who to give up on versus who has the character and who doesn't? Well, from when we're not God. So you're here to serve. I'm saying from a community standpoint, how do we differentiate? From a community standpoint, you don't. You can't give up. No. And even if you do like, let's say the majority of the community gives up. I'm a strong believer that somebody's going to take hold to the child. No, no, no. I'm not talking about giving up. I'm talking about as far as deciding between. What you mean? Two kids are acting out. Okay. Are they acting out because of following their character or are they acting out because of trauma, home situation, whatever the case may be? How do we make that distinction? Once again, I feel like life and experience. Like that kid is going to keep. No, no, as me trying to save the kid, I'm their teacher. I'm their community member, whatever. How do I make the distinction on which kid to really pour into? I would hope you would try to pour into them both. I feel like going back to vibe, I feel like you just click with who you're, I don't know. I feel like I'm a strong believer that God sends people. So I just feel like you kind of get split in certain moments. And it may be both kids, maybe one or the other. And as far as you're talking about winning to give up on one of them, I feel like it comes within the teaching. But I feel like I always tell my mama this cause she used to get mad at me like when I'm not listening to her and things like that. Best example I could give. And I used to tell her like today I don't understand what you're saying. I comprehend your words. I know what you're saying as far as like English texts. But I don't understand what you're saying. I'm still a child in this moment with what you're saying. Like for her, you said to use this to work, right? When I was younger, before my great-grandmother passed, she told me, she looked me dead in my eyes. I guess she was laying her sins on the table. And she was like, don't sleep with nobody's husband. At the time, I ain't nothing fuck she was talking about. I'm in church. I'm like, of course those things was like, what are you talking about? As I grew older and I was in moments of temptation, I'm like, oh, this is what the fuck grandma was talking about. So I feel like when you're a teacher or you're sent to somebody to serve in that moment, you can't get frustrated for one you're not God. So you can't be like they should be learning this shit right now. They're not. You may be dead and gone before they learn that lesson that you gave them. You know what I'm saying? And you just gotta be okay the fact that you laid the seed. That's it. That was your job. I guess my hesitation was when you said when people's back is up against the wall, how they react is a product of character. And I was just saying to you that it's not. You don't think so? I think so. I think some people, so for instance, right? I'm from Nigeria. Yeah. I tell people all the time, if I didn't come over here, I would be a scammer. It's not it. And that's real. I consider myself a good person, right? But like if I didn't come over here and get the opportunities that I got, I wouldn't be a tech guy. I'd be a scammer. I would be trying to email you as an African prince and take all your money straight up and down, right? And because... It's the culture though. It's not a cultural thing. Morality cannot exist in scarcity. If I have to take from you to live and feed my children, I'll do it. If I have to kill you to save my life, I'll do it. Our first rule as human beings is self-preservation. So I think we have to understand that before we start making character. It's easier to say a rich kid has good character. No, it's not. But what I'm saying is it's easier to say a rich kid has good character versus a poor kid on the street who just robbed you. That's what I'm saying. You see what I'm saying? So like you have to put things in context. And I think with white people, part of the reason why they think black people are inherently flawed is because they think it's a character thing as opposed to slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, mass incarceration, you know what I mean? Which is a part of the character. But I don't think that... I think they know. Exactly. I feel like maybe the ones on the lower level don't know. But I feel like everybody, I feel like they know very well what they're doing. I feel like, to me, I feel like they know. And I feel like even if they don't know, like even when they've had like dialogue like this and conversation and they try to get stuck on stupid at certain moments, I feel like a lot of times, even if they don't know exactly the breakdown or whatever, they know that they're benefiting from it. They understand. And my thing is as we all grow, we see it. Like I'm going to school with a wide range of everybody. You see in moments when race plays a part. I've even had to argue about like, my checks when I was much younger, me and a white girl doing the same job or whatever like that. So I feel like they know. They hold meetings. It's the, you don't know. Or I'm going to say you don't know, but like certain people may not know who aren't paying attention, but. What do you think they should do? There's this conversation. It's drifting out. I don't even know what you're talking about. White people, white people who know. What do you think they should do? Just like you just said, we're selfish by nature. And what they should do, they're not going to do nothing. What should we do? Like, so. What do you think we should do? Build our own shit. And really, I feel like educate. A lot of people don't understand just like when we were talking about trips costing so much money. A lot of people don't understand that things really don't. It's all in how you do it. It's all in connection. You know what I'm saying? So it's just relationship, your mouthpiece. Like, I feel like educating people on like, I know people always joke about you can't teach hustle and you kind of can't. But if you could teach some form of hustle and confidence, I feel like people would work better together because it's just really not knowing. A lot of people, and a lot of times we get information and we just flex on the next person versus letting them know how to do it, you know? So I feel like that blockage could help if that came down.