 I think that's probably the best way because you otherwise would have to sign out and sign back in. So if you could just in the chat box in some place indicate your name, your full name and your CCA, we'll make sure that you get recorded. Well in our presentation today, we want to cover three main topics. The first will be evaluation of plant stands followed by weed identification control by Kirk Howard. He's in the Department of Plant Sciences, NDSU, and the final speaker will be Lake Vanderbors with Ducks Unlimited. We'll talk about disease and nitrogen management. I think after Kirk's presentation, we'll certainly take time for him to answer some questions. He'll have to leave. If I finish in good time, I might take a few questions on my section, but please feel free to hold questions to the end as well. We will take whatever time needs we do plan to finish in general terms after an hour. So I'm Joel Ransom, Extension Agronomist for Serocrops. My part of my presentation, I'm going to talk about evaluating plant stands. And as you all know, having a good stand in this spring is key to a productive winter weed crop. And I've got a glow graph there that shows the relationship of percent winter survival in yield. And so ultimately, we want to have a reasonable plant stand. The question is, how much do we really need? And what are some of the factors that are going to affect survival? And I think this is one of the reasons we want to talk about this today is because we did make, we did start our winter weed crop last fall in pretty poor conditions. But the factors that are going to impact the amount of winter survival are going to be the environment. We have little or no control over that. Temperature at the crown is probably the most definitive of the environmental factors that we're going to talk about. The second would be the state of hardening, which is a time of year. We'll talk a little more detail about that. The variety's fallen and the size and bigger the plant in the fall. So these would be the four main factors that we're going to be influencing the amount of winter survival that we have. And if we look at the general graph that was indicating what temperatures our plants can tolerate cold, you can see this top graph is some data from Kansas State. You see that we start as the plant is emerging. It is not able to tolerate cold. It's kind of like spring wind in that state. And as we go through a period of cold, it will harden off. And it gets to the point where it will be able to withstand cold temperature down to about 10 degrees Fahrenheit, minus 10 degrees Fahrenheit. And it will persist in that level of winter hardiness until about February. And at that point, the reserves start to diminish and it becomes more susceptible to cold. And we see that as we move into the mush where we are now, the ability to withstand cold is significantly reduced. And it's not uncommon to have plant stands that had made it to the winter up to this point actually be lost when you go through a cycle of freezing and thawing. And you can see that there's a pretty wide band of temperatures that can be tolerated. It really depends on the plants, the reserves in the plant, the variety of its own, and the kinds of fluctuations in the temperature. So it's pretty hard to predict precisely what kind of, you know, what the plant is going to be able to withstand. Let me just review with some data from last year. This was a winter survival model that was put up in Canada. Just one thing to do. OK. So if you want. That's OK. If you want. And that arrow will move around. All right. So last year, sorry about that little intervention. It was a hopefully a useful one. I was having all kinds of fun with my pointer and you weren't seeing it. But last year we did have a winter wheat survival model. It was very descriptive in kind of showing how the winter wheat plant tolerates cold. And depending on the variety, you can see that I talk and and sephodora were able to tolerate just about minus four Fahrenheit. And as you get further into the spring. You can see that there were cases where we actually had winter kill as a result of plant being less hearty and temperature being too cold. We look briefly at where we're at. This is some data that John was he's been recording and the top the top graph shows the winter golden valley. And if we look at the. The. The soil temperatures under a short stubble. We can see that certainly the temperatures are less captured as much snow. But in general, I would say that those temperatures, none of them are below what we say is a critical level for winter winter kill. We go to Cass County, the bottom graph, we can see that we have had some temperatures, soil temperatures. I think these are about one inch depth where our crown likely be down. But again, probably because of the snow cover with that, that our temperatures, at least in these areas, haven't been excessively low. And also we have to be too concerned about winter. I talked about variety being important and this is these are some data I collected in 2003 and four that I haven't been able to replicate. It was a perfect year for having some oil and looking at the soybean residue. You can see that our varieties coming from more southern locations. We had a very high level of mortality. Whereas with a little bit of snow cover under the seats, wheat residue, all of our varieties were able to tolerate the winter. So variety choice is really critical and I know we introduced a lot of southern kind of winter wheat varieties into our system and so this might be a year where we see some of those failing because of the late planting and other factors. We're in the last couple of years, we've had really good survival because of the snow cover and other things. I mentioned the size of the plant going into the fall can have an impact on the winter hardiness and here's just an example of very late planted, small plants, very few reserves. It's going to have less ability to tolerate the long cold and this plant up here. And you can't actually plant too early and have too big a plant. So we don't have that problem in North Dakota very often because by the time you get in and plant that recommended date, you don't get a plant that's much bigger than kind of what that person looks like. So I think this is one of the issues we're a little concerned about. We had very late emergence because we planted late. The range didn't come until much later than normal and so we probably had a lot of plants that just kind of set there and very early got to start. So let's talk about what constitutes a reasonable stand. You want to go out and count several areas. Probably, I've mentioned two foot length. Probably five foot would be more realistic and you want to do it in representative areas of the field. You may have some parts of the field where you have big gaps and you won't count those differently than say other more normal fields. You want to evaluate for bigger and we have a kind of a general recommendation that we can tolerate plant stands down to as low as five plants per foot. That's probably on our lower end for winter wheat. If you compare that to spring, you can see that we can tolerate about half the stand that we can with winter wheat or with spring wheat. Here's just some data showing you that bottom graph would be coming from Mandan that you really start to see a yield reduction when the plant stand is below seven or eight. But you probably are able to maintain yield sufficient to make it profitable to keep that stand if even more than five plants per square foot. This is some data that I showed you previously showing you the relationship between yield and plant stand. And here we had the down as low as 20% survival. This would have been kind of a objective evaluation that we were getting up to 60 bushels which would indicate that you probably want to hang on to that. Some other data, this is put together by Steve Dvorak looking at some of the range of varieties over a number of years. And you can see that again probably about that 30 to 40% stand in the spring is going to be a critical level where you want to keep it versus where you want to think about telling it up in plan. I'm going to skip the slide in that slide but basically just showing you the same relationships as you get into that 55 and above is not so problematic. This might be what your field will look like in the spring if you're evaluating plant stand. And you can see that in this case the leaves have all burned off and some years we keep green leaves throughout the winter. But just because hot leaves have been frosted off doesn't mean the plant is dead. I have a really nice technique for determining quickly whether your plants are dead out there. You can dig them up, nice to wash the dirt off, clip back the leaf tips, put them in a bag, keep it warm and usually within 24 hours you can see something emerging. If you don't need it by two days then you can be a little bit worried. You can see in this case a nice little green shoot starting to emerge after probably after. So in summary I think our optimum for winter wheat would be to have a stand in that 20 to 25 plants per square foot. But stands between 12 and 15 square foot are more than adequate. And stands as low as even five per square foot have yielded well if conditions are conducive to children development. And you want to consider how uniform the stand is across the fields. Certainly you can have big patches and it's not uncommon to have big patches where you lose stands and other parts would be normal. And you may have to develop a strategy for how to fill in those patches. It's not a good idea to leave patches just the weeds. Others have plants in spring weight but you can imagine the challenges have also hardly seen two classes of wheat at the same time. So you kind of have to have a strategy in place as to how you might handle those patches. And I think that bag test is really useful for those who are a little worried about whether they're crop mated or not. And it's as simple as going and getting a few plants, taking the dirt off, soil off the plants, cutting back the tissue and observing injury. This fall as I mentioned previously we planted late. The plants got emerging late. And so these small ceilings are very difficult to evaluate. And I think it's going to take a while before they'll start to emerge and show any green. And I think the message here would be we'll probably have to be patient and see how things be going once we have snowmills and temperatures. We'll want to discover a crop that in a week later will show some real green and bigger. And I think their question that might have coming our way is that we don't have enough material. And I think that most folks that I've talked to would say it's very unusual that we didn't get enough inhibition and started the germination process in the fall. And maybe even the spring if that's the case. We won't have enough accumulated cold weather to do vernalization. So I don't think that's going to be an adequate standard. So with that, I think I'll probably have time for one question. If somebody wants to ask a question then I'll turn it over for the topic on weed control and identification. I can't see any hands up there. I think Kurt, I'll turn it over. Thanks, Joel. Joel and Blake had asked me to come in and talk a little bit about the weed control, especially the winter annual weed complex. And I had the opportunity to stick a few other things in there as well, especially towards the end. Some of you may have been involved with the culture monitoring and the sample collections that we did over the winter. And I've got some information there as well as the response of the plant samples to chloroxapir. So I think thinking about winter weeds and definitely the winter annual grass complex causes consternations for all kinds of people. Treat sheets being a species that we don't see in North Dakota very often. There's definitely more of them on tan weed. But areas where there's an issue that definitely occurs in enough populations where it definitely reduces yield. And as you can see the heads there describe those as an open football shape as opposed to Japanese brome which we'll be looking at a little bit. Relatively little pubescence on leaf tissue membrane as short membrane as ligule. And Japanese brome does have a very short ligule. It has a very dense map of hairs along the sheets of the leaf as well as hairs on the leaf surface of the leaf on the blade. Still fairly small so it's not easy. It's not like Yellow Foxdale where you see those very long, scraggly hairs at the base of the leaf blade but it creates a shroud around the plants so you can see plants kind of have a halo to them. And as you see this in this next slide that dense map very heavily pubescent and the amount of pubescent is related to the temperature regime that it's been exposed to as well as some of the environmental conditions related to moisture. So they have dense and pubescent we can have fairly sparse pubescent but they tend to be quite long relative to the relative to the downy brome surface. And then with the seed head there you can see it's more of a compact football shape. The florets as individual seeds do not open up nearly as much as trick sheets. The downy brome is really the one that causes us all of our problems in North Dakota. It is more difficult to control herbicides and is able to germinate and emerge in the spring as along with Japanese brome and easily produced seed. I talked briefly previously about fertilization of wicked wheat crop that needs to happen with these plants as well and even the cooler spring temperatures in the evenings is enough to initiate seed production for these plants. So just because it emerges late in the spring doesn't necessarily you're going to avoid seed production. This also has dense sheath pairs but they're quite a bit shorter and I think the entire field of the plant has a lot more of a velvety touch. The downy brome tends to be a little bit more prone to purple coloration that's brought on by the cold through the winter. You can see the downy brome in wheat the tint of purple coloration, reddish coloration and then also one of the seeds with long on that will give the downy brome inflorescence a much more feathery appearance as you see on the right as opposed to the tight clusters of the football shape on this of the Japanese brome seed flores. The downy brome like I said before is definitely more difficult to control than Japanese brome and when it establishes in the fall to wait until the spring it can create very difficult control situations. This control tends to be more fall the plants are smaller they haven't initiated as many tillers and there's just not as much tissue to try to get control with the herbicide. Control options before the winter wheat is in the ground of course include glyphosate which provides a very exceptional control and we do have two products or prepare that are registered before wheat and both of those can provide some suppression. I would not necessarily expect complete full season control but they will help reduce the herbicide competition so that you have smaller plants later on post-emergeous treatment. As far as post-emergeance if you have clear field wheat beyond is definitely a good option and I've also found the most complex to be very good options for control of these winter annual crops. Maverick can provide a very good level of control however in working for the high soil age we definitely have issues with carryover as there's probably not a lot of Maverick used except for areas where you know that you're going to be coming back to cereals in the fall of the season. And then Sierra Foreverist for Empire Max do provide good suppression and if the plants are small enough we will provide adequate control of the downy grown and those that are strong enough they should provide excellent control of the Japanese grown. Crochtail Barley is another plant that's becoming an issue throughout the state and in the seedling stage it is very small, very thin leaves also has pubescent along the leaf sheath but the leaf blades are nearer and at the seedling stage is where you really need to control this because as a perennial it truly establishes it is difficult to control with anything and when we get to that stage for the post-emergence treatments Olympus has provided the best activity can kill some of the plants but more there we're just trying to prevent production for the following season other products tend to be a little bit weaker on it PowerFlex I haven't had enough experience to know whether it controls well or not Brickley Lettuce would be one of the broadleaf winter annuals still looks like dandelion if you turn the leaf over you have the long rows of spiny rows off the mid-grip and Brickley Lettuce is a composite species it is controlled very effectively by many of the growth regulators but especially perillipotent products such as curtail curtailam horseweed I see my D fell down below as it moved from one system to the other but horseweed is becoming a large duration in North Dakota because of the resistance that has developed to glyphosate we have confirmed that in Cass County there are other areas of LeMore and Pierce and McIntosh for samples that come in where we suspect there could be some resistance but haven't been tested yet without use of glyphosate really by controlling young resets plant growth regulators and ALS inhibitors at those early growth stages tend to be very effective Field penny press we can get into the mustard side of things recognized by the penny-shaped seed pods that can close the seeds it takes off very early in the spring and ALS inhibitors are very effective even once this plant starts to fold a couple of other and mustard family at Tans and mustard inflicts meat in very finely divided leaves and they're also controlled at the early growth stages of control so that it does not extend to the stage followers are being produced you may still be able to get control with ALS inhibitors especially with combination of a phenoxytype herbicide but control definitely starts to get more limited comparing this with a perennial this is false chamomile false chamomile once it is established as a perennial again control combinations of ALS products plus a phenoxy have done quite well but a lot of the herbicides used in cereals that are based on contact type products will not be very effective on this week false chamomile once it starts to flower it gets that typical daisy flower head on it the other thing that I wanted to talk about for a little bit was the kosher monitoring we have several fields that people sent in samples last year this was initiated because we had two specific sites one up in Pierce County and one corner of Stuttsman County that glyphosate resistance was suspected in 2011 during greenhouse testing we did that both of these locations had a very elevated level of resistance where even a gallon more than a gallon of power max was not controlling all of the plants and compared with that with 11 ounces that would control every plant in the susceptible check definitely indicated that we had a problem the same seed lot was exposed and we've treated with clarity and starian ultra trying to identify some of the other control options that might be available for cereals we were not pleased with the response indicating here definite survival and very big growth after full labeled rates of clarity even in corn or the start of the rate a high use rate 5.7 fluid ounces does not kill all of the plants we had several samples come in from around the state mostly from the eastern half as you can see on the map here we did have a few kosher samples coming in from the far western the I-95 corridor and these were seeded into pots in the green house we had a susceptible check in the upper right hand quarter and a resistant check in the lower left hand quarter spraying these pots with glyphosates typical response and more than 50% of the populations were controlled easily with that standard rate of power max the green in the corner there of course with the resistant check from Pierce County but we did have several of the flaps that had different amounts of regrow depending on if it was a 1x or essentially a 3x rate in some of those pots the control was almost nonexistent we also sprayed all of the foroxapyr and typical response to foroxapyr would not be complete plant death these plants that are very injured however can start to recover after a couple of weeks and start to produce growth this is a serious concern for our late season weed management because those plants that remain down they can't be all season long once you remove the weed canopy they can start to produce new shoots and produce several thousand seeds per plant or harvest so on the kosher side of things what are some of the other options we do have very effective use of glyphosate or foroxapyr still in much of the state however we do have foroxapyr working as well as it should from essentially every area where we've received samples in those areas cereals of course will rely on buck drill with either permoxanil copac product seems to be working quite well yet in other crops where you can use atrazine that has been very effective DPO inhibitors the aim is very effective in crop if the plants again are less than two inches tall a sharpen can be an effective pre-plant burn down at moderate use rates however we cannot expect very much soil residual from a sharpen for managing the kosher into the season essentially it comes down to making sure that you don't have plants there when your crop is established and trying to manage those emerging plants before they get beyond about three inches in height with the sweet products that we have available I know there's a lot of areas that are listening probably no till or minimum till but steel is still probably most effective and reliable ocean management tool because of the short soil residual of the seed and the susceptibility of the plants to cultivation I believe that might be the nice slide set so if you have any questions you might be able to answer some on issues or other topics that might be pressing in your mind there's a couple of them there that I recognize good morning everybody it doesn't look like we have many questions coming in I will be able to stick around for a little while so maybe if you type in questions for me as Blake is doing some of his discussion before I have to leave I can still maybe answer those Thanks Joel and Kurt I want to thank NDSU and particularly Scott for helping coordinate the webinar and for all the support we've had in the promotion of it I went back up to one didn't I Yeah I want to redo this You can start over Okay here we go You can click on the name Let's get started here and try to move rather quickly if I can and what we're going to talk about a little bit this morning is a little bit on nitrogen management and then some on disease management that we've been doing with NDSU and SDSU and ourselves if we just look at that first slide you're taking a look at there the soil test plus the applied in and this is over trials BU conducted in North Central Northeast South Dakota and then through the central range of North Dakota all the way from Crosby to Jamestown to Allendale kind of on that kind of a line and probably about 80 to 100 miles to the side of it and what you'll see there in the next few levels we're probably coming someplace between 180 and 220 pounds of total available land if you look at at John Lukach's data from north east North Dakota you'll see that from 2009 to 2011 since John started working on winter week you'll see probably pretty close to that same amount of nitrogen maybe slightly higher on the top end the one thing that was kind of interesting and when we added 2012 data into the BU sites we added another five locations and you'll note that that bottom line has shifted a little bit to the left a little bit less nitrogen and the reason for that we believe is if you remember the winter was open we were warm most of the winter and then March was about 15 degrees and we think there was probably quite a bit of extra conversion going on in the soils from the organic matter and so we had actually two sites that responded to an additional end we had two sites that showed no response to additional end once we got to that per 60 bushels yield goal plane and then we had one site where actually every level of end that we added decreased yield further and that was due to the fact that the additional end caused lodging so the more end we put on the more lodging we had and the lower the yields became with that nitrogen base through farm experience and pass yield experiences but actually now in the 13 years we've been doing these trials this is the first year we've been able to document it in the trial setting so that does happen so if we look at the amount of nitrogen talking with Ron Gelderman South Dakota State STSU is still at two and a half pounds NDSU is still at two and a half pounds per bushel of actual nitrogen some data that we've been using in our DU studies from ARS that was conducted for a long period of time in winter wheat at Mandan North Dakota and at Sydney Montana was 2.25 pounds and per bushel for 12% protein we're pretty comfortable with that we think at some point in time hopefully with more data we'll actually be able to reduce that number further and I think as some of these new breeding programs and techniques come online now some groups focus on greater efficiency of the nitrogen as well in these new varieties one thing I just wanted to point out I showed this slide last year is that we just need to remember working with our producers or if you are a producer is that winter wheat has a higher yield potential than the spring seeded wheat by 20 to 30% so you need to take that into account when you design your nitrogen programs for the spring or if you've already done it last fall the other thing to remember in that is I think winter wheat probably can get by with that quarter pound less per bushel than the spring grains can so you do gain some efficiencies there but probably not enough to make up the fact that you need to add more into your winter wheat to attain those yields one thing is we talked about the maximum in needed for maximum yield to be in that 180 to 220 to 230 range obviously economics play an impact on that and what that final rate will actually be and you can see on this slide I'm going to see if I can make this point at work but over on the left side you've got four and six dollar wheat so you've got two sets of lines obviously you've got higher placed wheat you can afford to put more nitrogen on on the crop the other thing that you've got is if you look on the par right you've got 50 cent and which is the blue lines and the 75 cent which is the green lines so the cost of ant is going to impact where that line is at the other issue that you have is the end protein discounts or no protein discounts obviously if you're looking at things where there's no discount on the protein on the top with the blue on the top we reach our maximum end level at an earlier stage but if you have discounts you'll notice then you actually need more nitrogen to reach your top net profit potential for the winter wheat so you can take a look at this slide more as we will post on our websites at NDSU and BU and study these a little bit but they're kind of interesting and some day I hope we can develop a table that will allow us to plug in the discounts, plug in the cost of the nitrogen and the price of the wheat and be able to predict more closely the amount of end that we should probably look at on the given year. If we look at placement Steve pulled together some data for me from our last two years of end trials that incorporate timing as well and you'll note that there's really no difference in yield from the seeding time application will replace the end of the soil surface to the surface applications of the 28 percent with stream bars and so if you look at it which would be breaking dormancy and then we've got the combination of seeding which is the urea down below the surface at seeding time along with the early stream bar and then the last one is the seeding with the late stream bar. You can see there's less than a bushel difference in those over the two year period and this follows a very similar pattern to the numbers that we generated from 04 to 207 in North and South Dakota in that dropout so this pattern of the last two years and our end trials follows that same time span in North and South Dakota when we did 04 to 08 but that fall seeding application actually does have a tendency to have a little less protein than the spring application and it generally runs anywhere from three tenths all the way up to six tenths less than the spring applications and I think that the graph basically tells you too what you put on the later you put it on the higher the protein levels will be just one site this year where we did see response through the full rate of nitrogen rates was that Crosby North Dakota and we had fall application versus spring application and then nitrogen rates as well but if you look at treatments N2 3 and 4 on the left those were urea out seeding time placed in a deep bend and then N5, 6 and 7 were stream bars and goal rate 3 was 85 and 4 was 110 and 5, 6 and 7 were corresponding to one thing you'll note was that there was probably slightly higher yield to the fall application with the urea when you average those three at 91.5 versus the stream bar in at 89.5 statistically obviously not different but we were noticing that pretty consistently this year and we think that was probably due to the fact that we had the urea place below ground we did not have we did have excess moisture obviously following seeding and during the course of this growing season and where we looked at the UAN sometimes the rainfall didn't come following the UAN application from anywhere from 2 to 4 weeks following the UAN application so there was some delay in the availability of the UAN and if you look at the proteins on the right hand side the fertilizer rates within the N234 and then within the N567 you'll see increasing levels of protein which you would expect the other thing again just showing the protein on the right to the average of 11.6% for the urea in the fall versus the 12.2% for the UAN in the spring just pointing out the fact that some spring nitrogen has the ability to increase your protein levels for you then looking at our watery stage application in other words applying 10 gallons of 28% with 10 gallons of water for a total of 20 gallons per acre with a flat-found nozzle trying to increase your proteins right after flower but before the kernel leaves that watery stage and hasn't reached the milk stage but if you look at the yields of the let me get the pointer here comparing the watery stage versus the no watery stage and you can see that the yields were identical in some cases depending on how the applications go some people do worry about the water stage application reducing yields due to leaf burn we did not have any issue with that the last two years if you look at the probe levels on the right side you'll note that for the 60 bushel yield goal when you increase those nitrogen levels for the 85 bushel we increased the amount of protein from 12.1 to 13.1 and you can see that similar trend under the no watery stage nitrogen applications or excuse me with no actual application at the watery stage you can see that the increased levels of animals increase the protein but I think the important thing here is if you look at the yellow shaded area in the bottom the watery stage application gives 12.8% rotation versus none at 11.7 for the average so we picked almost a full point of protein up this year from that application last year those numbers were about half percent we look at some information that Ron Gelderman shared with us in December and I want to thank Ron for these Ron had done some trials with ESN on urea and its influence on winter wheat yield the thing that I want to point out is you'll notice these are two locations for pier and wall and you can see there are some tremendous yields at pier 102 with the fall application of urea and 107 with the spring application of urea the thing that you'll notice though is he added ESN they were both 102 and with that spring application he lost about 5 bushels and you'll see that he lost 8 bushels with the spring application at wall and my guess is this was 100% ESN treated urea ESN met urea to a point where it didn't benefit yield and then you'll notice in the next slide that you'll see that the protein levels actually increased a little bit and that would probably fit that reasoning and ESN held that nitrogen so if you're going to use ESN with your winter wheat application just remember winter wheat needs that nitrogen early you're probably definitely not going to want to put 100% urea spread out there in the spring of the year on your winter wheat we look at this next slide looking at agritain this is some work that John Lukacz has done up in northeast North Dakota he actually had six sites in 2010 and 2011 and I dropped the one site I was a little uncomfortable with the urea agritain had dropped its yield pretty substantially I think it's one of those outlier type situations but at any rate you can take a look at the yields at the various locations for 10 and 11 and you'll note in several cases there's no difference in yield but in two or three cases there are some differences in yield and if you look at the averages on the far right you can see the urea was basically 80 bushels the urea plus agritain was 83.8 or about 84 and then the ammonium nitrate just not to have any volatility because it's 100% nitrate at 83.3 so it's kind of a check to the agritain so John says it's not meant to work every year because you hope you're going to get rain with that urea on the surface and it's going to take it in and I agree with John so it's in those circumstances where maybe like in 2012 we applied the urea early we had an early spring we didn't get any rainfall for two to four weeks so you hope to expect to see a response and on some of the trials that we did in 2012 we did not see a response to the agritain and again I think it went back to the fact that we were getting that urea it wasn't an issue I think this is probably the most important thing I'm going to show in my portion of the slides today Joel talked about stands and stage of winter wheat and if you look at the top left-hand picture you'll notice that the development here is from below the sole surface all the way up to one leaf stage and this was actually in the fall of 2011 at our mine out location at wind field and then if you look at the bottom slide on the right this was actually a little fallow strip plot area that hadn't been seeded the prior year we seeded right through those areas you can see we had two and a half wheat there versus the stage that we had one of the things that we tell growers is our goal is to have approximately 50 to 70 inches per square foot when we come to that harvest stage now obviously if we're seeding and we're seeding at rates of 25 to 35 plants per square foot we're going to need to make up some time here so we're going to need to want to encourage some tillage and so we're going to want to probably put some nitrogen on early to enhance that the tillage prospect so if you look at the two pictures in the two corners we've got good bigger on the field on the left but we've got very poor bigger on the field on the right and what you want to do is just as soon as you can traffic that field once the frost is out it's probably to get 15 to 25 pounds of ant on in some form Urea or 28% or whatever form you can get it on and hopefully get some rain and help stimulate the tillage. Just looking I'm going to cover now just a little bit on disease management and mainly it's on fungicide timing applications and on response in 2012 we saw the least response we've seen in the past three to four or possibly five years to fungicide applications as you recall it was dry early so can spot wasn't a big issue and scab was not a big issue we did have some stripe rust in some locations in the eastern Dakota but you can see that in our 2012 variety trials at your scatter across north and south Dakota we had a 3.8 bushel response across all varieties and that obviously varied from location to location and from variety to variety but with about 5% return increase in yield I should say. We looked at 2009 it was a 10.2 bushel response with about 15% increase in yield 2010 was a 14.2 bushel with about a 20% response and 2011 was a 12.9 or 13 bushel with about a 24% increase and so we look at that average across all those years with 12 included it's been about a 10 bushel response with about a 15% increase in yield. John gave some data I'm not going to go through this slide but I just wanted to show it to you and you can go back to again to the websites and dig into this if you want but this is John's data from northeast North Dakota from 9, 10, 11 and 12 and from that data these next three or four slides are summarized from that data but if you look at at the sites there was 22 experiments that contain the Passaro application at Erlich-Lauer in the studio with the herbicide and then the Passaro at the Erlich-Lauer and then the check and you can see that in in those years in northeast North Dakota he's getting most of this benefit from the Passaro application at the Erlich-Lauer so in three out of 22 experiments as indicated below he had a five bushel of greater yield increase with the herbicide timing with the fungicide so if you look at the next one you broke that further apart and it's indicating that in five out of 14 experiments there was a five bushel of greater yield increase due to the flag of the fungicide and then in 12 out of 14 experiments it was due to the Erlich-Lauer fungicide so for John in that area that is pretty strong evidence that application at that Erlich-Lauer stage is really important and he went on to further break out a few other comparisons and indicating that in four out of ten experiments Passaro treatments yielded five bushel are more than five bushel of greater yield and in the case of Passaro it was eight out of ten experiments in that particular series I think many of you probably remember Marx-McMullin the end issue pathologist that retired last year always indicating that she felt that the Passaro for the difference in cost between that and the full cares and the generics and John's data here is just indicating the same if you look at the next statement of the series I think if you look further south say south of highway two and west of highway there you'll see those early herbicide treatments or the combination of herbicide and fungicide pay more than they do in John's area because hand spot is a bigger issue as you move into a different climate compared to what John has up in his corner of article just in closing to open it up for questions we're thinking about conducting a webinar in July or August again to talk about a number of different things but to prepare for seating in the fall some of the stuff we'd like to probably share that is we're going to need quite a bit of new data when we start a trial research with P, Dacium chloride and sulfur and so we're going to share some of that I also want to share some information on some of the no-till rotations that are going on around the country this is just a slide from the CCSP firm that is kind of jointly led between George and Christy South Dakota and Southeast North Dakota and what you have there is blue lines is the yield for corn in a corn-corn rotation where the corn is stripped-tilled the second bar, the rose-colored bar is a wheat-weed, a spring-week winter-weed and then corn following that and in a strict no-till setting until and then the third one, the yellow bar is a spring-week winter-weed and then corn the winter-weed is stripped-tilled and then the corn is planted into that and then it's a soybean corn rotation where the soybean ground is stripped-tilled and the corn is planted into that and you'll just notice the four-year average I did not approve 2011 because of hail but you'll note that the strippy and soybean stripped-tilled are both very competitive one another over the long term and you'll note that the corn on corn even using the stripped-tilt cannot compete with those two and then the other thing you should point out in 2012 and 2008 you'll note that the corn has done a little better in one year and then the no-till wheat without the stripped-tilt has actually done the best and that's when we're in a drier environment and warmer environment and I think the one thing we should remember is we've been in quite a period of wet years and I'm just kind of wondering if we're not transitioning back to a drier climate and if we do some of the things and some of the practice that we look at we may need to go back and evaluate where we're at prior to this wet period and some of the things we'd like to probably take a look at in the next webinar are some of the rotation impacts on economics and some of the things dealing with rotations on weed resistance I'm going to quit with that and we're going to open it up to questions but we'll wait for some questions and again I'll just remind you that we'll be posting these to the websites and at the South Dakota State folks like us to ship it to them and have them posted on their website we can do that as well a number of the pieces of data in the South Dakota the other thing we did also indicate that we were going to give out a little prize and Joel picked out a number of course and then Scott figured out who the log in was and that was Sue Raisland and I believe Sue is the writer for the farm and ranch guide at Bismarck so Sue will be getting you that little gift later on I see there's a comment there we lost some 10% of the winter weed in our area has emerged what are the hopes for a decent we can Joel and I will both respond yeah that that really is a point of concern because we really don't know what the status of that seed is I mean it's quite possible that it's imbibed and started the germination process and that process will continue as we get into the spring and that seed will obviously so that's not a critical issue it's just kind of how much bigger and how much stand we're going to likely get from a crop that really just started the process of germination in the fall so that would be one scenario I guess we could have a scenario where those seeds set there dry and never did germinate they'll germinate in the spring and then I guess in a worst case scenario they'll act like a winter weed crop that was planted in spring my my sense would be that in most locations we probably had enough moisture to get this germination process started and that we'll have to keep a close eye on the fields as we come into spring and to see if they're survived you know that's one strike against them being lady mergers are in small plants in the fall and and and hopefully we'll have the kind of weather that will allow those things to express themselves and get out of the ground before it gets too late in the season where we have to make some kind of determination for the germination of the crop and plants on this but I think generally we would say that it's not a hopeful situation that often we have successful in the fields the plant in the fall really didn't emerge completely in the fall but we're able to get it started and then develop into spring I just comment I've been working with winter weeds since 1977 and it seems like one location every year either with research or with my actual fields and one of our farms as well we would have a location someplace where winter weed either was underneath the soil surface or slightly above the soil surface but so much of the whether it makes it or not depends obviously over winter but this period we're in right now if we can get some moisture to root at that surface get the crown is still alive anyway there's still a very good chance that this crop will make it I think we've only lost one research plot since 1999 due to poor emergence and we've had quite a few of them that were hit above the soil surface or half a leaf to leaf stage growth hopefully completely discouraged by it I guess the other thing I'd encourage you to consider is the fact that if you're dry and you take this crop out what crop are you going to plant in a crop is that crop going to have any better chance of making it so I'd encourage you particularly in those areas where you don't have any subsoil moisture to give this crop a little bit of time before you get too anxious oh okay I just want to one comment if you're seeing mold on the plants is probably it so that is generally a pretty good sign that that plant has succumbed what was the next one 32 degrees the sun started to grow Joel says 32 degrees and then I agree with that as far as fertilization I'm not worried about fertilization at all if you've had that seed in the ground my guess says there's been enough moisture for that seed as well that's all it takes then once it gets cold again then the fertilization process is taken care of when you were talking before there and then will that be the next question seed fertilization as far as how long is the temperature required to be cold again Joel I can't remember what the time period is do you know it's probably about Joel is saying it's about a 30 day period that you need for that cold one of the things that you can do is if you go to our website or the VU Canada website or this is just catch one there's a there's a really good section on cold and fertilization and I would guess that NDSU and SDSU probably have that in their materials as well someplace I just bear in mind it doesn't have to be cold Joel pointed out and then that's true it doesn't have to be below freezing for the fertilization to occur it's just temperature to cool and then it's going to serve and then Becky actually answered that Aaron answered so then Evan just popped it in okay the next question from Evan is that when we planted into broken CRP and am most concerned with the volunteer grass mostly Timothy what herbicides would you recommend Joel how to normal you know grass Joel's responses you know if it's your animal your winter annuals or your annual grasses you know we've got some tools to select from but if they're cranial which I think Timothy is and I'm not familiar with control on Timothy but my guess is you probably don't have much choice in terms of that control but I tell you what if you wanted to go to our website and drop me an email Evan I'll do some research on that and try to get back to you we think we may have missed the question here I'll get to the ice question here in a couple seconds I can't remember that was that the person you went to yep nope that was the first one ice okay ice can have a very detrimental effect particularly as we get closer to breaking dormancy as that plant is needing more oxygen you get a layer of solid ice over top of that plant and it stays there for probably four to seven days it can actually cause desiccation and the most the worst situation with these surfaces is probably a little dry and you get some melting going on and then you get a solid layer of water around that crown and all the way to the surface of the soil and that becomes probably the most testimonial yeah so it's not what you'd call typical winter kill this would be ice encasement it's very deadly there's nothing you can do about it I mean it'll doesn't take long to kill the plant but it's common except in your low spots typically that you would have your whole field covered with ice but it's yeah it's anytime from now until things get too big to be iced up ice encasement can be a real lethal kind of scenario one of the things we've experienced is that if the ground is warm underneath the ice layer that ice can actually granularize particularly if you've got a snow layer above the ice and sometimes it will granularize fast enough that there'll still be enough oxygen movement or if you've got stubble sticking through that ice that can also act as a conduit for oxygen as well and that can help well I think we're going to wrap up once we have a quick question thank you folks for attending looks like we had pretty close to 70 folks on and I think there were some groups in the sessions so if you find us an effective way to communicate some timely issues let us know we'd also appreciate feedback on the type of information you'd like to see in these webinars so thanks again for your participation thank you very much