 We're here to discuss climate resilience and web three. I have an incredible array of panelists building different solutions within this space But first off my name is Tim. I'm managing partner in Rescore Ventures. We are an early-stage impact fund Focus on climate resilience and financial resilience Today, I'll be moderating this great panel. So I'll let each person introduce themselves really briefly and then we'll begin to it Hi everybody, I'm Gregory Landaway. I am the CEO of R&D Public Benefit Corp and the co-founder of Region Network Hi everybody, I'm Mercedes Vidard. I'm the CEO and co-founder of Kipu Bank And we're building a digital decentralized bank for the informal economy in Latin America So, hello, I'm Nirvan Ranganathan from the Climate Collective. I'm the program manager there We are an innovation network that supports companies building at this intersection of web three and climate And I'm Claire Gagnier. I'm the CEO of Range Carbon. We work with project developers to bring tools to help carbon markets come to life Wonderful. So yeah, we have a diversity of panelists kind of building at different intersections of climate resilience within web three And it's a little bit background of how we approach this. You know as a fund We're exclusively focused on again on climate resilience financial resilience A lot of the way we approach it are where the different types of technology services and models That can help those who are at least responsible for climate change to Build their adaptive capacity to confront it over the next 10 20 30 years Web three is one of those trends tools Technologies movements. I keep characterizing that way. I guess all of those that we're particularly excited about You know as a coordination tool as the ability to bring in a variety of voices and stakeholders together to coordinate, you know billions of dollars of economic activity and work the crypto space the web three space is this bubbling Area where a lot of that is happening and so I think when we look at climate resilience and all sorts of interesting Tools and applications being built on a web three There's there's these early signals that some of this could be quite transformative How that reaches emerging markets and those types of users it's still relatively early and something we're going to discuss a Little bit today because again, there's some signals there, but then there's also a lot of hype Towards what can actually happen. So we're excited to kind of dig into that a little bit in this panel And again, we're going to be exploring a few different dimensions of this and kind of survey Surveying the web three regenerative finance space. We have Individuals building in the carbon markets ecosystem services. We have individuals working to centralize finance Which has maybe a more indirect climate angle Then we have others that are kind of working more broadly across a variety of initiatives around plastics Around data unions for scientific data So this is hopefully kind of a taste of what's happening in web three But we hope you'll join us later tonight for a happy hour at cello headquarters Or continue the conversation on Twitter online and some resources that we'll share at the end So first I wanted to ask Gregory You know one of the things that I think is thrown a lot around a lot is you know crypto blockchain web three Everything's used interchangeably. We don't always have kind of a common definition of what this means So Gregor, I'd love if you kind of just ascribe, you know, what is web three and then also? You know, how how did you approach building a regen network utilizing this tool? Like how did you kind of describe that journey a little bit? Yeah to start I'll just say I Upon founding region network, I would not have characterized myself as a technologist. I was a farmer and a permaculturalist and a community activist but was quite skeptical of technology and pretty skeptical of Blockchain as some magic fairy dust that was going to fix things And so just as far as like where I've come from and I'll share a little bit about the journey of Choosing to really engage and go all in on web three. So it's just a little bit background So to me web 3.0 is really the leap towards Social computation What do I mean by that? What I mean is that the the fundamental and intrinsic characteristic of a blockchain is that there is Consensus that's being maintained by a network of computers about a particular state of data and In Bitcoin that's used to it in a very limited capacity, right? It's sort of like this first-generation attempt to maintain a distributed ledger for Units of account moving between counter parties without a centralized party that's controlling the whole system But if you think deeper than that, what's happening is it's it's a social Computing system that's maintaining consensus about what that community finds is important So if we if we take another step forward What are the things that we as humans need to maintain? statefulness or have consensus about? As communities in order to effectively coordinate our action, right and and finance And markets are an enormous coordination tool. There are also other coordination tools like governance decision-making all of these in some way can be radically empowered by creating social computers by adding in some layer of consensus between compute nodes that allows us to then essentially start as as human communities to govern Programs to govern algorithms to govern the tools that we're using computationally to achieve ends whether those are market ends or or Democratic ends or policy ends other decision-making So sort of found it foundationally and fundamentally from sort of that way of thinking about things first principles We at region network came to the the conclusion that what's needed deeply To confront the climate crisis or even more importantly the Environmental and ecological degradation crisis, which is really the that's the real thing climate is just the symptom of that We need to be able to symbolically represent ecological health and Create community consensus about that that is deeply legitimate in which stakeholders are owning and participating in the process in which communities can monitor and govern the whole stack of that process and that's why after a lot of thinking about this and and And even trying other approaches we came to the conclusion that we really needed to create sort of a web 3 stack a blockchain stack for the purposes of What currently is being used to monitor report verify and issue Things like carbon credits, right? But to do so from this set of first principles where we're saying in order for those to be deeply valuable We need to maintain the statefulness We need to make sure that the right people are participating at different moments And we need to do that all and this is what I think is very unique on public infrastructure, right? That's open source in which the value accrual mechanisms and the way that investors get paid back Isn't by trying to extract value from sort of like the use of that infrastructure Instead that people can repurpose it build on it own it and operate it as user stakeholders So hopefully that's kind of what you were hoping that I'd go for and I'm happy always to go deeper Yeah, thank you very much. No, we'll definitely go deeper Nirvan wanted to kind of shift over to you I'd love to hear a little bit more about climate collective and then the types of Projects and solutions you guys are interacting with That's great So at climate collective our mission is to create a trusted and liquid market for digital environmental assets at scale and abbreviate that as DEA but It's all to say it's not saying that it's carbon offsets or anything like that It's a digital environmental asset and I think as Gregory said and need the symbolic representation of environmental assets Otherwise, I mean it can't really be analog I think that is one starting point for us is that we need to update our systems that are able to track ecological assets In a far more robust way than we've been doing so far. So I'll start with I would say the high-level ecosystem and then talk about climate collectives role there Similar to most markets, you know, there's supply there's demand and then there's the point where they meet in the middle So in terms of supply as I mentioned, I mean things have started very much with the carbon markets Which I'm sure we'll talk a little bit more about but a lot of projects that are using the precedent that we already have called the voluntary carbon market to Essentially use the use web 3 tools to streamline that market So you have nature-based tech-based credits from different companies such as some of these names may be familiar to can protocol flow carbon Sanergy, Talo can see there's quite a mass of folks who are working on carbon projects But then we also have as Tim was alluding to earlier. Let's say real-world assets like whether it's plastics e-waste renewable energy financing and to Gregory's point Biodiversity and really being able to measure What is the ecological state of an area beyond using carbon as a proxy for a planetary health? so a lot of different sides of supply by trying to think of it somewhat holistically and then moving over to the demand side, I would say this is a The North Star that has been guiding a lot of the thinking and the practice here is comes from Charles Eisenstein's sacred economics where He lays out an argument for essentially instead of using the gold standard or previous collateral systems Can we back money by things we care more about like forests and clean rivers and so on? So this idea of being able to use these digital environmental assets to collateralize Stable currencies that are initially in circulation So that's I would say one really guiding principle that will be a huge source of demand as as Digital currency continues to be adopted Others are let's say things like fly wallet where on a lot of us took flights here I'm sure some maybe some subset of us have offset the travel But it's not very easy in the current system where you see it on Google as an externality as We were kind of alluding to earlier Where you're essentially embedding this Carbon neutrality or climate positivity into other applications, whether that's transportation More a crypto native let's say NFT projects and so on so you're essentially creating this supply Sparking the demand for it and then where they meet in the middle. So some assets may be more suitable for Let's say crypto native trading in what they call liquidity pools Some folks might want an order book system that is more familiar With regulated assets some assets may be more suitable for an auction mechanism So really figuring out what makes the most sense to be able to connect the suppliers and the buyers in this Very nascent market and what is the climate collectives role here? We so on a general level we provide you know grant capital Technical advice marketing support and let's say learning Experiences for our members and grantees But I think the unique thing that we do is identify and execute on these opportunities for integration between the supply and the demand side or even within Multiple organizations that are in the collective One very simple example. I'll give there is Project a is developed a tokenized carbon offset project which are all able to retire and that's that's great But it's not terribly exciting after that. It's saying. Okay. I have this blockchain transaction where I've Retired eight tons of carbon now project B wants to come and say it says yeah I want to build a game on top of this that unlocks a certain Level or attribute or something like that if the user has offset proofs to me that they've offset X amount of carbon So being able to plug in I mean that's gaming is a very simple example. There's a lot more where that came from But this is this idea of being able to build interoperably and composably. I think our core tenets of web 3 So that's where I see climate collective being Very valuable adding value and utility to each of these different protocols and to the general to the space Great. Thanks, and Claire wanted to turn over to you because you're not coming from you know, kind of a web 3 native perspective here But I'd love if you could speak to you know What range carbon is doing to equalize access for project developers to the carbon markets and then from that perspective? You know, where do you see currently or in the future web 3 potentially playing a role in what you do? Thanks, Tim So I am sort of one of those people who's been in the carbon markets for ever But I took a 14-year hiatus So back when I was in grad school. I studied carbon markets fell in love with them Decided I was gonna go work in technology Which I did for 14 years and then picked my head up last year and said, oh my gosh, there's so much happening in the carbon markets This is great. I can't wait to get back in and Through that journey what was thrilling to me was how much had changed Most notably the demand is just incredible and it really creates the potential for the carbon markets to realize The dream that they've always contained But also I found that actually carbon project development is just as hard as it ever has been even though I've been gone for you know a decade and a half Which from the Silicon Valley perspective I bring is crazy It's mind-blowing to me that that's still as difficult as it is And so that's what range carbon is really working on we work with project developers who? Whether they are have been project developers for a long time or trying to get into project development They're struggling with the many hoops that they need to clear over the course of years I mean, I don't know how much how much you are familiar with bringing a project to life But it really does take years and there's a ton of financial risk involved Which maybe is something that you do understand from your vantage point And so what range carbon is is working on is Really you could call it workflow tools, but it's it's much more than that Born out of the real-world experiences of project developers in the field who are trying to figure out how they Work with communities to do the interventions they need to do on an ecosystem We work exclusively with project developers who deal in ecosystems and then bring those carbon credits to life In a way that they can be salable And what is so exciting to me about web 3 but also the reason that range carbon isn't a web 3 native Platform is that web 3 has within it the ability to embed metadata about those projects that really Isn't possible to do in web 2 You know you can include all that information, but it takes many websites or lossy brochures or many meetings with people and those Things are still important, and they have their place but being able to actually put that information in an indelible way Into a credit has a ton of value for the ecosystem at large Including the project developer So we're really working up the chain from like what region is doing as well as climate collective on the supply side and just to anchor this like we are driving in reverse right now when it comes to ecosystem protection and Restoration in 2020 alone We lost 25 million acres of established ecosystems and only 10 million acres of projects were brought online Granted those are also often Interventions that where something has already been clear-cut right so it's not as good of a forest or an ecosystem as one that's been established Project developers need help. They really do and technology has a lot to offer But no one's really building that so we decided we would step in Great. Thanks Claire and you know recognizing that Within the carbon markets, there's you know 30 years of history with that a whole lot going on You know we've kind of talked about some of these topics But again afterwards we can try everybody be happy to dive in more Because there's kind of a lot of nuance and technicalities and then also Looking at how those types of tools reach smaller smaller land stewards So a lot more dig into we'll also have time for Q&A Please do feel free to use the app to type in any questions you have but we can sync them to the the panels as well Mercedes want to turn it over to you. I think you know again when we were forming this panel We wanted to make sure we avoided just kind of carbon tunnel vision and only focusing on like I'd say the most direct linkages between web3 and Climate and so I've known you and keep a markets for a few years I'd love to if you could describe a little bit more about what you're building Why web3 is a part of it versus picking another strategy and then how you think about how climate relates to that Yeah, sure. So I will start with the last part And yeah, like we are really in a different segment. So we are working on financial inclusion and technology For the emerging markets. So it's really working with Micro-businesses that don't have access to the format financial system So we are starting in Colombia. We're just 9% of Micro-business is access for my credit and And really there's a big gap of information There's where we started like how we can assess great worthiness in a completely alternative way and you know start to use the smartphones and the internet in a way To get these data that it's around but actually people are not Monetizing it right like they are not accessing better services And that's there's where we tap in Why I got into so I'm a city planner and political scientist So I'm not coming from the financial sector and why I you know got into a financial Sector is and this has to do with your climate question is because you know the banks have their The decision of the world we are living in right now, right? Like the world we are living in right now where like some projects were funded Decades ago or years ago Is because where they decided the money to flow, right? So I think like the money flow of the world is like deciding a lot how we will see our future And if we want to see a future, you know with better Biodiversity and like and to challenge climate change and to have more Equity then we need to decide where the money is flowing and and that's why I'm like working on that right now And and basically as a city planner what I've seen is that in cities? You know, there's a big Percentage of our cities that are informal not just in informal housing, but in informal economy, right? so just in Latin America 51 percent of our economy is informal and By by being so then we cannot like understand it, right? Like we cannot create better services and and it is very difficult to reach that gap For these businesses and people to have more to build wealth, right? Like because in the end is building wealth So there's where we started building people as a bank as I said that where we Really meet the user where the user is and it's like, you know now nowadays Micro-business is sell on their phones So we basically built up platform where they can upload their in web 2 So this platform is in web 2 for the user So it's like, you know, they can upload what they're selling pictures of their products of their business They upload their main customers So they tell us like who are who is that like social capital capital that they have locally because they usually sell Locally in their same neighborhood or same city and based on all that information is that we use AI to assess great worthness So that's it's all on web 2 and And then we said, okay, one of the main challenges that we have as a lending platform is to access capital, right? like you need money is like our Fuel and we needed to exist because it's what we are selling right to our our clients And if you go to get that like in the traditional way kind of like Institutional depth and if you're a fintech that is just starting then you will get that at really high interest rates and and You need to translate that into the final user, right? And then like being poor ends up being extremely expensive because as there's no data of how your business is doing There's no data of you then you they end up relying on like really really high interest rates So we said we need to change you want to really change the way that finance works in this Segment that we need to start from where we get the capital from at what rates and how this can be translated into our users So basically where we're building a liquid depot Try to I will try to explain it like plain English So it's basically like a way in which anybody in the world can invest in these businesses using usdc, which is a stable Coin buying a token that it's not changing on demand and offer But actually changing on how our businesses are repaying their loan So we give yields to the lenders and at the same time we start backing a token as a reward that comes back to our users as to a community actually And this token is also backed by how our our cohorts of clients are repaying So in a way if you're part of people and you're repaying your loan Then you get rewarded in a token that is backed in usdc You are able to save in this in this token. You're able to pay back the loan or even invest in the polls, right? So in this way, we are we are able to access capital at better rates faster from anywhere in the world And at the same time we can make our users members of the land of the lending protocol, right? And we expect them to be hope to have governance on the lending product Protocol and not not just be always excluded from how the financial and the economic system works But actually be able to write again those rules of of the economy we're living so That's that's our intersection between work 3 and and the informal economy and a little bit of climate where I'm not a climate expert, you know the team but Yeah, but but I think we need to decide where money is flowing and that will Get into how our future is looking like great. Thanks so much Want to pick up on a strand there with you Gregory, you know the carbon markets are an inflection point more money than ever is flooding in to purchase offsets and forward contracts And more money than ever is flooding into tech startups to build in a space And more money than ever is flooding into acquire land to Develop different projects all of this has the potential for very negative consequences for smaller land stewards and digits communities How do you look at that tension points between the growth of the carbon markets? And which you know again has the potential to Really drive forward some of our mitigation and adaptation efforts with the inclusivity of that the governance oven so forth And yeah speak a little bit more about I think what Mercedes was alluding to that the stakeholders around the table that you're trying to convene with Regen Network and how that like again that architecture of what you've built really tries to contribute to that. Yeah so Let's just sort of we live in a world now in which the financialization of nature is going to happen and So that the bigger question is how is it going to happen? Not if it's going to happen so I think Tim's question is really fantastic I because the the deeper question is is Are we going to perpetuate sort of like use the exact same tools and approach and therefore Create a subprime carbon collapse at the end of which all of the smallholder farmers and nature preserves and All of the the where the real work is being done to combat climate change The rug gets pulled out from under them in in the bubble popping Or are we going to have a scenario in which there it's Substantively different the way that the the market is interfacing with ecosystems and the land stewards who care for them And so at Regen Network we've worked really hard on that specific problem, right? Because we're not our assumption is this monster wave of finance is already it's coming And it's already here not that we need to do something to make that happen But instead that the real work is to make sure that it happens as well as possible And so Regen Network is secured by a blockchain, right? It's a community It's secured by a blockchain that blockchain is sovereign and independent, right? So it's not built on sello or aetherium or Ripple or some other place where there's existing stakeholders who have existing interests and and even with good intentions may end up Extracting value or governing the system in a way that isn't necessarily fit for the this the land stewards who are sort of Really at the end of the day with their work Backing the system and the value so instead we built sort of like in a blue a cyber Blue space where we can invite stakeholders in to govern and participate who are actually providing the value So there's a large set aside in the way that things are working for indigenous peoples for the rights of nature for landscapes Themselves to have representation in the governance system for science groups for activists for the the types of stakeholders who actually at the end of the day are the ones who are going to be responsible for The value-adding process that produces these public goods that we all need that our market needs to that our market is hungry for that there's more demand than ever for carbon credits and ESG actions We can't keep up with the demand, right? But in order for there to be deep legitimacy There's an understanding that that shift has to happen and those people Also need to be centered both in the financial upside of the success of everything happening as well as in in the governance of the system itself And so we've tried to sort of bake that into each layer of of the architecture The business model the economic model in order really at the end of the day to sort of future-proof this market, right? so that this monster wave of Probably several trillion dollars a year that's going that is going to be transacted based on conservation restoration regeneration mitigation is really transforming the economy to really Re-put put people and nature back at the center of things Thank you. Yeah, Clara if you could follow up on that a little bit from your perspective Absolutely, and I couldn't agree with you more. It's not a matter of if it's how and One of the things that we're really working towards with range carbon is To develop tools that become easier and easier for different groups to use So right now, you know when I last spoke I told you about how hard it is to develop a carbon project And that's true, and I don't think that that is going to get Crazy easy, but it can be eased with technology and with people and know-how and The goal that we're working towards is for small holders for indigenous communities to be able to Create projects that they can actually monetize off the carbon markets or wherever they go Beyond carbon water, biodiversity soil, etc And that is something that is completely unavailable to those groups the ones that are really at the forefront of Ecosystem loss and climate change and all of the impacts that come from that and it makes sense, right? Like, you know, it's not just economic terms But it is easy for us in our Western minds to see it that way But think about it from the perspective of a small indigenous group that is living Off their land and someone comes to them and says, you know, if you convert this to palm oil and farm it like We can give you this much money and these resources, etc Like that is really hard to turn down when you're dealing with Real struggles and loss of life or lack of education or fresh water I mean all the things that we take for granted Those are not available to a lot of the people who are at the forefront of these ecosystems and their loss and What would be so tragic to me and what we're I think all fighting here to avoid is for those very people to be the ones Who don't benefit from the carbon markets because they are the ones who have the most to lose and they should be Getting something that is meaningful and sustainable and long-term out of this transaction that we're creating with nature So that we can offset our flights and our purchases of clothes and things like that So it is absolutely attention. It is one that we have to reckon with and one of the things that I'm really excited about with that we're working on is a pilot with forest carbon, which is a premium conservation project developer works with feetland restoration in Southeast Asia they sell carbon credits that result from their work and they have communities who are adjacent to and within their project sites and Like many project developers the extent of that relationship is actually it's pretty meaningful like they employ I think it's 96% of the employees that are on their sites are from the actual villages and the communities that are adjacent But those communities are not actually directly benefiting from the carbon projects and the sale of those carbon credits and we're working together to figure out how We can first do something like this pilot which is going to bring in metadata about the co-benefits That are co-created with those communities and then logitutally Tracked over time for impact so SDG goals that are baked into Forest carbons vera credits at this point But the long-term goal is to actually have those communities be able to Create or at least manage a carbon project themselves and be the beneficiaries entirely of those financial, you know Mechanisms because that's really what we need to be able to have the sea change that we're all looking for here Great, thanks clear Yeah, I think there'll be announcements on that pilot in the coming week or two for folks to dig more into Who's more interested? Nirvan one other question that I'm gonna open it up to the audience. I'm sure hopefully a lot of good questions out there You know, I think Claire touched on something that's important around transparency, you know infrastructure for like cross-validating data payments, obviously It'd be great if it could speak to a little bit, you know The work that cello and then climate collective as well are engaging in emerging markets on, you know Beyond kind of carbon space the different types of projects pilots. You guys are doing It's happy to Now I I'll say I read that as beyond Terrestrial carbon. I still think ocean carbon is well oceans are like 70% of the world I don't think we've figured out a good way to truly use them to the to the maximum capacity and why why It's incredibly difficult to measure something in the middle of the ocean or the Pacific Ocean or something like that And I think that's the key piece of this beyond carbon, which is you know, we have methodologies at the moment to Measure, you know to a good degree of accuracy what like the number of tons of carbon that have been has been sequestered by a certain project Renewable energy, you know, maybe just plug in a meter somewhere and you have solved this issue of MRV or measurement reporting and verification And I think that is the biggest unlock and I in my opinion the key use case of blockchain here Essentially being able to verify it that some action has happened halfway across the world whether that's a Whether that's related to a carbon project or beyond so for example one one project I'd like to highlight is called simplex DNA and they call it a proof of life Biodiversity monitoring protocol. So for example, you have a backpack here You're able to take an air or a water sample in theory from the middle of the ocean And then send it to the closest simplex DNA lab. They would essentially do is called eDNA barcoding I can't say I understand that fully but you end up with a Snapshot of what organism what DNA is in that vicinity so you'd be able to figure out what organisms are living there so a very interesting way to The science-wise to be able to quantify a biodiversity and sell the changes in biodiversity over time But how do you actually measure and how do you make sure that people are cheating the system? How do you incentivize people to measure it? So that's one side of the coin, which is you know, the buyer wants clear data saying, okay This the Delta is from a to b the biodiversity state has improved great but on the other side for Folks who are actually on the ground collecting it that the samples and the data or whether it's for simplex DNA or for another Project where they're trying to verify that a certain action has indeed happened I mean to make sure I think the thinking gets very different than it's not all am I satisfying this buyer's Requirements, it's can I make a living out of this? We've heard you know a lot of stuff with gaming recently which kind of came to a bit of a close But this whole play to earn idea and said can we make it like measure to earn? Can I think that's what is more important for folks who are actually as Gregory was saying doing the hard work and actually staying on the ground? So in the beyond carbon, I think I alluded to a couple other projects It or other solutions there, which like for example plastic e-waste Renewable energy if let's say these are the key Assets that we're looking at but all of these we ultimately whether it's I plant a tree in India or I collect plastic from Brazil I sitting here in San Francisco need to know that that happened somehow So I think that is The key unlocked to the rest of the beyond carbon movement say But I do think I mean there's a few foundational things that are coming up such as simplex DNA MRV collective Athena protocol I do hope they will all plug nicely into region because just wanted to say There are that region has just launched this marketplace today And there was one my favorite credit there is the Jaguar credit where you're able to really see like part of this Protecting endangered species or at-risk species. So you we're already starting to see things going beyond carbon And highly recommend checking out the region to mention that To do it for you Greg So we're already starting to see that in certain forward-looking groups, but I Don't I don't think we should say no to carbon. I think Claire is doing excellent work with especially forward-looking carbon But MRV those three letters are key to kind of unlocking the next step in climate action at least my perspective Great. Well, I'm gonna open up to the audience for questions. If you have a question, please feel raise your hand We'll get a microphone to you Yeah, hi, my name is Neil I'm in the mental health and wellness space running on the blockchain and one of the questions I have about Extract of capital which is regenerative capital models How do you ensure a regenerative capital model in the blockchain because even crypto holders money dictates power? So how do you separate? currency ownership with governing power I Think sometimes you do and sometimes you don't So in a very specific way in region network, we built for instance, we built a governance Tool called the groups module which enables non-token based voting for either specific parameters that are on chain or specific policies that are being created such as adding methodologies to an allow list on the registry system or Assigning certification or governing economic policy or you could sort of think about the things. Where do you want to abstract out? Financialized governance. So so we sort of built a tool for that. The other answer is sometimes you actually Maybe what's a better question to ask is how do you ensure that the right? stakeholders have stake Also, so there's that's the sometimes we want people to have skin in the game And we want them to be represented and that to be also represented as voting power For certain things so it's sort of like a both and there are certain things that that should be stripped away from and Made just elegant governance tools that are not financialized and then in other cases My answer to this would be how do we include the right people as owners in the system so that they can? vote and have power Hi, Tony I'm Curious how you want us to use this. Do you do you want us to? Go on the market and buy things. Do you want us to like the organizations will work with to start creating? blockchain assets That's a great question. I think there's multiple layers. So If you go to app.region.network right now You'll see that there's a live marketplace and that marketplace is populated with high-quality carbon credits That came from a project called the city forest registry. So what's amazing is and this this didn't This wasn't actually planned, but for instance, I went on today and I offset my family's last year of carbon on the marketplace and I ended up doing that to a Park outside of Issaquah, Washington that I had played as a child that was Deeded over to developers to get developed and then became part of this carbon project got saved and Turned into a sort of like climate park. It's amazing. It was kind of so so there's so there's opportunities I guess for individuals and and businesses to go and just sort of like engage with offsetting in In the retail sort of way, but also there's opportunities for project developers to be engaging There's opportunities for people who have a vision for new forms of value Biodiversity or water to be engaging and thinking how do we? you know study monitor report and create a new unit of account a new eco credit and So I think we're you know, I tend to be more geeky and passionate personally about The desire to really create a strong community of different individuals and businesses and communities who are saying What is really important for us to to generate assets out of and to bring on our balance sheet in order to flow? Money where an attention where it needs to go, right? But then there's the other side of that which is sort of like the demand side the marketplace like people coming and saying Hey, I would like to offset my carbon or I would like to protect Biodiversity in the Amazon, so I think there's multiple levels that I would love to see people engaging in Let us quickly add there that hopefully we may not hopeful But maybe we can get to a stage where just by using a certain token just by using Let's say a stable coin that's pegged to the dollar that's backed by nature just by using that coin you're helping out I will also add it's easy to be Jaded especially when we I love John Oliver, but he did our industry no favors with Something that is a really complex nuance topic and There are a lot of amazing projects that are trying Desperately to save ecosystems and to do good and the best thing that all of you can do aside from Financially contributing to those projects is to stay open and curious to everything that's happening Don't close down because we need all of us in our different roles to participate