 River-State APC crisis depends as Magnazabe's faction inaugurates parallel state executive and still in River-State, the Court of Appeal extends ruling on Secundus's bid to stop PDP Convention. This is plus politics and I am Mary Anna Cole. The leadership crisis in the APC, of course in River-State, took a dip dive for the worst after Senator Magnazabe led faction inaugurates a parallel state executive at Freedom House, the campaign office set up by Abe in 2019 at GRE in Port Hackett while joining us to discuss this as former member of the State House of Assembly, Golden Chumma and former Spokesperson of the APC in River-State. Thank you very much gentlemen for joining us. I know Mr Chumma you are now the Factionnel State Chairman of the APC. I'm going to start with you Golden. Was there a legitimate Congress that was held in River-State on the set date where the Congress is held across the country? Now there are claims that your Congress actually was illegitimate. There are claims that there was no INEC official to supervise that process. There was nobody from the National Working Committee to supervise that particular process. Thereby making it illegal. So what exactly happened? Nobody illegal does not exist in the political environment because first and foremost, members of the all-progressive Congress are members of the party by being registered members. As a party, the party calls for nominations to supervise forms, which we don't import. Unfortunately, we were also part of the party who have contested elections on behalf of the party and failed at times. We put ourselves after election. Unfortunately, a group of persons believe that the party can only function when the desired candidates, even though not competent, are made party officials. But we also believe that the party is at national level and looking at issues that are critical. We are saying that we are in a party to make the party a political party and to make sure our wrestle power is strong in the country. And that we are ready to do. How do you get the wrestle power from the PDP in 2023 if you as a party have two factions? And this has been the modus operandi for the past many years since 2015, if I'm not mistaken. Parallel congresses, factions within the party, which has at some point cost you a lot. So it makes me really wonder. Now, let me go to what Mr. Chris Finebone, the spokesperson of the party in River State, had said. He called the act criminal. That's the first thing he called it. He also is alleging that you gathered the press and addressed the press, telling the press that you now have elected ex-colon members for the party. And he says that that is not how an election is held. So really, how do you want the National Working Committee to recognize your executive council if other members of your party think that it was not properly done? Yes, he has called Chris Finebone. I don't think Chris Finebone understands why he is a world criminal. He has said that the party is an association of persons who decide to congregate together by the political banner. And if the party is aggrieved in whatever it is, there are means, and there are values, to resolve disputes in the party. But it's not important to include committee and offence because you have decided to do the right thing. That doesn't make us criminals. We have no committee and offence, as I last said I checked the committee and offence. We have no committee and offence, and then we have nothing left in Nigeria. We have members of the APC, and also me, and they are there. And what the other groups also look at is that we are better than the rest. We are more resourceful, we are more competent, and we are more desirous of taking over power. We are not in the party to do anybody's bidding, but we do the collective bidding of the party. That's all we are essential. If you are doing the collective bidding of the party, why are there two factions? I'm trying to understand how you mean those who accept. I mean, we've seen these congresses happen in other places. Yes, there might be those who do not agree with you, but then there has to be one house, not a house divided against itself, wanting to fight against a PDP that has been holding sway in the state for the past six years. So again, I want to ask you, has the National Working Committee accepted your group? Have they said or given you a nod? What is the plan going forward? Because now you have two parallel executives for one party in the state. What's the plan going forward? I'm not a national party chairman. I'm the only chairman for the structure of the United States. But in the United States, there is a division. The division did not start today. The division has been a product of high-handedness and exclusivity after certain pending radios. Now, the National Working Committee of the Party is so much united in a position where they have done everything to resolve it. But the other party in the United States have been so united. We're supposed to do what we call revalidation. It's not proved by the office, by the National Chairman. But the other group scuttled it because there's a belief that if we do that, we'll be taken away the party from the United States because we're more populated and more agitated. But unfortunately, unfortunately, party politics has to do with numbers. I'm telling you, when you are agitated and when you have the numbers, you can confront this kind of position like the political groups. But I believe that the National Working Committee of the Party is now working to resolve all disputes. I'm going to pay the third to give it up for cognition. So it will help the party in the United States to move forward. I'm going to put a pin there and come back. Let me go to Mr. Buena Wuke. He recently left the party. So let me start with you, Mr. Wuke. What exactly led to you leaving the party? Just recently, I spoke to you on this same matter, a similar issue. And you were talking about the differences. I'm going to be a viewer and also say that I followed the trend of questions. Can you hear me? I've not asked the question yet. So I'm asking what led to or what necessitated you're leaving the APC because recently you were an ex-colon member of the party. I spoke to you earlier this year. Well, you can see based on the line of questioning that you have adopted and the line of answers that you have received thus far that you do have a divided house in the APC. And in fact, no matter what we do, mechanisms for conflict resolution are not obeyed or followed. And for me, it became necessary at some point, purely personal reason to say my goodbyes to the APC. You can see you're asking our friends in the studio how a divided party can stand up to a government or a party in power. And the more you look at the APC, the more you wonder when they say that the APC... I think that we've lost connection there with Mr. Wuke. Okay. But if you can hear us, let me know. Can you hear me? The attitude of those in the APC does not suggest in any way that they are serious, ever serious, running an electronic rebus. And so if you're a serious politician, the best thing to do is be to withdraw and allow those who think that fighting amongst themselves is the best way of settling the dispute to continue their rat race. I'm curious, because you've been in this party longer. And I want to understand. You've seen the dynamics. You've just told us, you know, given us a peripheral explanation as to what's happening in the party and why you think that, you know, the divisions are. But what about solutions to... Because we see that this is a deep-rooted imbroglio. But can it not be solved? What do you think is the reason why this situation cannot be solved? Let's not forget. In 2015, if I'm not mistaken, it cost the whole... 2019, I beg your pardon, it cost the party all of the tickets. They lost literally every ticket for that election cycle. And here we are again, getting ready for another election season. And it's the same cycle all over again. If all the parties involved are saying that what they're doing is in the best interest of the party, why do you think that the solution seems more like a mirage? Well, let me say first of all that having left the APC, I believe that what is happening in the APC at this time is APC's internal problems. I've flown across the aisle. I am the PDP now. And I would not like to interfere in the ongoing conflict between two unequal friends in the APC. But let me say this. Most of us who are watching from the sideline think that the APC is in no way organized. This is... Come to 2023, the PDP will be densely. Two things are this gentleman who are running the APC in the river state appear more interested in massing their own ego than in solving the problems of their teaming supporters who long for some relevance, political relevance in the river state. But it gives us in the PDP sufficient reason to believe that we work through the reverse opposition, not just because they are in this array, but because also the PDP appears to have a better focus, some better projections. Of course, everybody knows that the governor of the river state is performing. And I'll give the APC, in my view, is a cup of tea now. Yesterday was a spokesperson and we believed that we were getting somewhere rationally and reasonably. But what is playing out and as you can see and as the world can see sufficiently proves that what you have in the APC is regrettably a group of persons who think that big rain, like many one another, fighting one another, is a response to the political needs of reverse people. And reverse people, I can tell you, have set their sights and they are working away from the APC and they are moving in the direction of the PDP because the PDP is proving clearly, even at the national level, to know what it is to resolve conflicts. This is not possible. It is not present in the APC as we speak. Okay, I'll come back to you. Let me go back to Mr. Choma. I'm trying to understand again what the National Working Committee is doing about the issues that you're facing. I've asked this question before but you didn't give me a favorable response so I'm going to ask again. Has there been a response from the National Working Committee of the All Progressive Congress at the national level addressing what's going on within the party in river state, knowing that elections are around the corner, campaign season is upon us, in a manner of speaking. Again, I want to ask you a direct question. Who is in charge of the APC in river state? Who is the party leader in rivers? Larry, I don't know if you're a politician or a minister but let me answer it directly. The leader of the APC in river state is right on a particular time which means that for transportation. Okay. That is the highest ranking office holder of my party from my states. Okay, and my second question is about what the National Working Committee has responded or have they responded to the situation? Have they come up with a solution? The National Working Committee, if I'm not mistaken, on the 6th or 5th of October, did set up the committee to reconcile and give members once more. And let me also inform you, there are a lot of states that have prior congresses. Some states have three congresses. I don't know how to read. I also hear leaders how to read. It's not synonymous to our state. But our state is the oldest. The division in my state is the oldest in the provision. It is on record that it is only in my state that APC is never a student and a candidate in the election of 2019. It is not anything good for anybody to say. But it also goes to tell you that things are going to be handled rightly in my state. Why do you think it's not being handled? It turns out that there is only an attempt to exclude a section of the party. And that attempts, no matter how serious it is, it doesn't work. Why would a party who is trying to build itself, re-registering members, trying to get the numbers, because you started by saying it's a game of numbers. If a party is trying to gain numbers, why would it want to exclude certain people who also have the numbers that they need? So what exactly do you mean by they're trying to exclude... I think that question will be rightly answered by my friends on the other side of the aisle. It will be better, you ask. We have had a lot of meetings where issues to resolve the conflict have a reason. The last one was held in the former governor's house, Governor Rufus and a judge, where a committee was settled and the committee came up with a fantastic recommendation. But just because of the egos of those on the other side, would not be properly embellished on what I say are correct, the truth of the board. And they are all with the issue that they would win. And I asked them, where would they win? When the house is divided, how would they move forward? I want to ask you something. My friend in Bundawuke was saying, I was a PDP member. Now he has gone over to the PDP. He has been asking, does he see me in the meetings he goes to there? He has said, no. We are resolute in the APC. We will remain in the APC and make sure that the right things are done in the APC. No matter whose office is gone, the APC would win if it were to come 2020. How do you intend to do that? We will win the elections. I'm interested in how you intend to win this election because just like Mr Bundawuke has said... Well, that's why I'm asking you questions. If you let me, how do you intend to win an election when you have two parallel congresses, when you have also said that there's an attempt to exclude you? How do you intend to win this election when your house seems not to be in order? I want to believe that things are being worked out where everybody will come to their own table and decision to be made for positive linings. I can't believe that you do speech. There is no speech in the political circles because we need to resolve the singing disaffection so that we can win the election. All right. I spoke with Senator Magna Sabe sometime in August of this year and he said something about the fact that he doesn't really have a problem with the Honorable Minister of Transportation because I asked if this was a war between both of them that is seemingly affecting the party and the future of the party in the state. But he did also allude to what you have said that there is no level playing field for all to win the party and there's some level of high-handedness. But I want to take us back to what he said when he was here in August and then we'll talk about it, stay with us. Why are you still in the APC if you feel this oppressed, if you feel like an outsider, if you feel that someone is deliberately trying to push you out? Again, do you think that the Minister of Transportation is targeting you as a person in closing? We need to go. First of all, I joined the APC voluntary. I have a copy of the party constitution. I was a member of the Nigerian Senate when I came from the PDP on the floor of the Senate. That was not a little sacrifice. I almost lost my life to establish the APC in reverse state. And so nobody, let me repeat for emphasis, nobody has the right or the power to push me out of the party and I'm not going anywhere. I will stay in the party, we will fight for our rights and we will ensure that the right thing is done in the All Progressive Congress in the reverse state and anybody who is sensible should realize that by now it will be impossible to overcome the determination of members of this party to see that the right thing is done. Nobody can drive over the rights of others and believe that it will be business as should be. It is not going to be. So that's what Senator Magnus Abe said in August of this year. And nothing seems to really have changed. I've not necessarily heard from the Minister of Transportation on this particular matter. He seems to be mute on it. But I asked the question earlier on and you said that it's not necessarily bleak. But hey, the Congresses have come, the Congresses have gone. Parties are picking people, soldiers, food soldiers. They're strategizing. I do not see that happening in the APC in reverse state. Come again. I'm asking. There are parties who are... I mean, Mr. Mookie has said that already. He feels... He just joined the PDP. He feels that they're going to flat out when the elections come 2023 because he feels that the party has strategy and they're preparing. They already know that they have the numbers. But I'm asking you, here we are, October 27, 2021. In a few months, the campaign season is going to be kicked off. Where does the APC in reverse state stand? What are you campaigning for? Who will you be campaigning for? Which persons are you going to be fielding? Because these are the questions. If you have two factions, is this another 2019 about to be played out again? I don't think that my friend, Shushuki, has a moral strength to hold down on PDP. He is a member of the PDP. He's one month old in the party. He understands the APC better than understands the PDP. I know that one of the unity of couples in the APC which will soon achieve, will overrun the PDP. Could it be that his understanding of the APC and the inner workings has led him to go to the PDP? Yes, yes. The APC is the PDP. Exactly for him to resolve. And I think that the resolution would come sooner than expected. Sorry. Can you hear me? I'm saying that the resolution would come sooner than expected. Will come sooner than expected? Great. Yes. One last question. I know the senator Magnus Abbey has said that he's not leaving the party. He's not going anywhere. Nobody's going to... Can you hear me? Okay, okay. Senator Magnus Abbey spoke with me and said that nobody's going to push him out of the party. He's not going anywhere until the right thing is done. I know I sound like a breakman record but I'm going to ask this question again. Do you see an end in sight? Because you're saying one thing and I know that when I have the other factional leader here it's going to say the same thing. That the party has called for resolutions and something would change. But we don't see that change happening because every day, every time there is a congress we see the same thing happening over and over again. Do you see Senator Abbey moving out of the party or letting the other faction do what they want to do just for the end of the party? Yes. Ladies and gentlemen, Magnus Abbey will be not leaving the party. He has said so in number of times he's not going to leave the party for any party. And I share his sentiment. When you make a statement, please, please, any time you have my counterparts on the other side, on your station, I will come free to your station anywhere in Nigeria. If it's the JVS, I'll fly down. Any time you have the main chairman, my name is Golden Chairman, he called me a fractional chairman. The chairman on the other side, if he's here to appear, he'll give you a meeting with his fellow chairman. How long will this song and dance continue? It will become a program anytime. How long will this song and dance continue within the APC River Station? No, we will resolve all the disputes. Menaka, I assure you, APC will be a united family. I will go to the election and continue the trade with the United Front because we need to take over the United States. We don't have an option. The only option we have is to come together. I think we'll do it. Golden Chairman, thank you very much for speaking with us. Thank you so much for being part of the conversation. We appreciate you. Thank you. We'll take a quick break and when we return, Appeal Court extends ruling on second this is bid to stop the PDP Convention. We'll be right back.