 Hello everyone and welcome back to for the minions the weekly show where we talk about Paragon remakes and ethereal this week we're going to be talking about pair predecessors interview with our new senior game designer we're going to be talking some ethereal stuff shurikens to be exact and we've got some over prime stuff we've got a Kayla short on Utah on Utah on YouTube the Paragon teasers used to be and we actually don't have anything for fault but we might talk about it a little bit and then since we are doing this live we will of course discuss with the community we'll discuss with the community throughout actually so um yeah i'm your host the main boost joining me as always and actually both of them are joining me we got on jelly knees and the viking Jedi i'll let them figure out which one wants to talk first i mean the more important is definitely going to talk first so uh what's up guys i'm happy to be here we've got viking live in studio this time studio uh super happy that vikings around viking and jelly casting spells absolutely um but yeah man excited to be here excited to talk about all the stuff and let's get this show on the road man goose viking doesn't need to talk i it's okay no not yet no you don't want you don't want to say anything no honestly uh so i'm here uh visiting and uh we're doing some uh scouting around in Utah so we got to visit uh my good buddy the jelly knees and uh viking just talks to me on the internet i know that's what i'm saying live on now we're by nose where jelly lives uh no honestly i think i'm just most stoked that this is uh gonna be a live you know situation i'm excited to see what you know chat has to say and um our interactions with chat um but uh no i think it'll be fun if anything or it'll be a shit show it is what it is i'm i'm happy either way we decided to go all crazy with it like you two are together and then we're going live and yeah okay um yeah if you two could just rub your beards together for me that'd be great what what beard does he have all right um so let's get started uh probably with predecessor predecessor had their interview with their new senior game designer x sundown they had announced that that that he was going to be on the team and um just give us a little more in-depth knowledge of his experience with um he is a former epic games employee so his experience with paragon and um i guess he was the marketing something or other for fortnight or something i don't know but i don't know jelly what do you what did you think of this interview with x sundown well as a fellow marketing something or other um i think it's no uh i think the interview overall gave a lot of like insight into sundown what he did do for paragon back in the day and theoretically what he's going to continue doing for predecessor uh i know the three of us kind of talked about a little bit that it felt a little groomed um and like just the way that they it it was worded in such a way that it was supposed to be a conversation or it was supposed to feel like a conversation that nabori and him had but it didn't feel like a conversation like no normal person's like oh well you know me nabori like like it just felt weird like um but overall i think it was good information right just a little weird presentation that's the only thing i got as a marketing something or other of course uh what about gives a fuck about marketing i mean true big true viking jenna what were your thoughts on the interview overall again it's the same thing it was it was fine it was cool to get like you know a little bit of insight um about uh the guy and what his passions are i was excited to hear some of the things that he mentioned as far as like what he wants to bring to the game and what he thought the game still needs to be worked on um so the those were like little nuggets of information that i thought kind of filled back the curtains a little bit of why he feels like he was brought in for which um you know obviously speaks to what the team thinks that they still need for the game um so that's exciting um that they're you know obviously trying to address it um i think i mentioned to you guys that i felt like it maybe was a little bit concerning that he was kind of like a jack of all trades as far as his resume was concerned um and maybe that's okay that's what they need and a lead but a lot of times like it feels like when you're kind of like a jack of all trades you're like that old thing you're not really a master of any i know there's more to that thing but just using that saying in isolation it doesn't mean a little worry that he doesn't have like enough oomph to really carry the team in a specific direction that it might be a little like oh well i don't know like yeah that sounds like a cool idea and it won't really have any definitive i sometimes feel like you really need someone who can steer the ship um and make a final decision that's going to be a good one and so that's maybe my only worry but his interview was fine it sounded like it was yeah easy it was fine it definitely looked like like they had sent him the questions beforehand and then he wrote his answers which i think is perfectly fine it was just like a more of an organic way to introduce him to the community than just having like a a lengthy bio or something like that i thought it was pretty well done he seemed like a really cool guy he had a lot of um experience with competitive in the competitive gaming environment but he did say that he wants to focus on like baseline being you know everybody will be able to use the character but they will still have skill expression which is very important we've talked about that before my only concerns with the interview overall was that what he was involved with in Paragon was Iggy and Scorch both the first and second iteration which if he had done a good job in the first iteration he wouldn't you might want to make that argument however Iggy and Scorch was made for the legacy map he had to be updated for the monolith map so we can't really dock him on that and then the other kit that he had a big part of was Murdoch's rework which nobody fucking liked Murdoch's rework where it was just all passive however i think that he was probably under constrict constraints he was probably told that they want a more passive kit um i'm excited to see what he's going to do with predecessor this is a big opportunity for him he's going to be the senior game designer so he'll be able to do what he wants to with these kits instead of having epic dictate to them because epic obviously made some very poor decisions later in the Paragon lifespan um so this is probably i would imagine he's very excited to get out there and get his own ideas into the game as opposed to being dictated to as far as what they want from the kits yeah absolutely i think uh wukong is perfectly balanced in Paragon's later life so i'm not sure what you're talking about as the as they went on they made worse and worse balanced decisions um so get your head on straight mangos uh no it'll be interesting it's one of those he may have worked on those things but to what extent right that and that's the unanswerable question he the only person who can really answer that is him is what level of did he work on those things was it like nabash where he named thunk and moved on or was it full-fledged i came up the abilities i came up with the whole overall design one of those things yeah oh yeah that that was part of it wasn't it he he named the ability thunk which is a great name for that it is a good it it's very thunk yeah i i agree i agree with you guys i think it uh well now it will be his test right like as this will have all of his name on it right and so if there's uh if there's successes he gets to really put that you know feather in his cap and say like i pushed this forward uh he won't really be able to hide from the name epic was the reason x y z things didn't work right and so uh so it's exciting and we'll see what what he brings to the table the interview felt fine good takeaway good to just get more information from the team as a whole always preaching for give us more give us more we want to stay hyped and so good to hear from the predecessor and i think uh sort of the the thing that we're sort of missing here it speaks volumes about the future of a meta studios that somebody that worked at epic for fortnight an obviously very stable job is willing to move over to a meta studios like they pulled somebody from epic games who was working on fortnight yeah like that's a pretty big deal that's a pretty big deal yeah absolutely it's i mean with that steve superville right all the people that they're bringing over they have a lot of talent there to help them succeed yeah yeah putting the money to good use i would say at least in in in theory right again a lot of this is to be proved but it's off to a good start it's hard to be uh um pessimistic about these most recent changes um including what we're gonna jump into next i'm assuming is the decker numbers um because i think the community has like a really to me really exciting reaction to them um i've been paying attention to like youtube and twitter and the comments and everything it just it's really funny like the almost dual personality dichotomy that's coming through with with the changes like some people are overhyped thinking decker is going to be the next greatest thing ever to grace you know 3d moba's other people are so broken and lame and nobody could never you know uh unseat her i don't know i'm sure it will be somewhere in between but i'm really excited to see what she looks like eventually well what were your guys's take once we actually had to dive a little bit more into the into the numbers that yeah that's that's a great transition into the decker numbers so they released these decker numbers after we recorded last time um so we talked about decker's kit last time for for the meetings but we didn't talk about the particular numbers so uh rocket boots her passive which lets her kind of double jump um that's only a 20 second cooldown but it can be lowered by casting an ability by three seconds so you don't have to hit the ability you just have to cast the ability which how do you count her cage as a hit ability if you were to count that it but it doesn't matter because that's off the table but uh so i that's i think there there's absolutely nothing wrong with that i think that's a pretty cool passive you know and uh i know a pretty good youtuber put out a decent video really deep diving into all the abilities and even adding in some really good commentary about how uh he perceived them um so i would encourage you know that that they go and take a look at it and buy this guy named uh man goose you guys heard of him oh i thought you were talking about me i don't know i've never heard of that man goose guy no man goose your video was great it was honestly um i put some work into that one i made the old footage look old timey and doing well like people are watching it like you are you guys vengus is one of the hardest working people behind the scenes on his channel he worries about this stuff he comes across so nonchalant in the shows i'm telling you it's the funniest thing but he's like it's so cute vengus is cute guys i'm just telling you he's adorable when it comes to his content man it's the best dirty filthy liar so let's move on now um photon disruptor this is the slow that we're replaced our slow bubble but it is on our queue this is the line of damage that goes out and slows people yeah i think main concern here is 50 magical damage scaling that seems a little high i agree and typically in these games magical scaling is there's more number for number right you have more magical scaling than you do physical scaling right for every just to throw out numbers out there for every 10 physical scaling you'll get a hundred magical scaling right and so that number is bigger on those items when she gets to full build if she's going full damage she could have an extra 400 500 damage attached to the end of that skill and that's insane like that's yeah and even if she is going support right not even accounting if she goes mid lane she just goes support and goes damage build mm-hmm she can do some damage oh yeah i think that's cool i think that's kind of cool like i've already expressed my opinions about our kit and how it might be a little overpowered we really need to see it in game like we really need to see it in game before we're making you true assumptions about it but god damn 50 magical damage scaling on this and it hits for 80 up front and caps out of 260 so i have a quick question on that i know we're going to go more into the numbers but like would you guys agree that sense i mean the easiest part of her kit to land is probably the box but like the bouncing stun grenade is still pretty difficult there's a skill cap on that or a skill ability like you need to be able to or floor that's what i was skill floor to be able to get there right and same thing with i mean the laser looks pretty easy to hit but we don't know in game and especially in like really intense fights that might not be super easy um there is a delay on her alt and how soon it also will hit and how quickly people can get out of it so i know the numbers do seem you guys kind of have a similar read or have you thought about it from that perspective that because there's still skill expression really needed to be able to fully get it across you know in a team fight or even in you know fake potential or do you think it's easier to execute and it's going to be able to propose i think honestly it's going to be that yes you can't pick up decker and do a bunch of damage but three four games in for the most part you're going to be able to do some damage like you'll get used to the feel of it and just it'll be that what about you use uh well i just want to respond real quick uh robert jones so is she actually a mid laner now was that a joke she's not a mid laner it's just people are looking at the scaling in her kit and thinking that she might be a mid laner as far as like how hard her abilities are to hit that um the slow beam looks like it's actually going to be fairly difficult to land um i think her cage is probably going to be fairly difficult to land because it does have an activation time and you think about the times you've missed a steel alt or you've missed a decker alt like there's times that you missed that shit so um just you know it's going to be followed up though by that's going to be a follow-up ability anyway yeah i think the exciting part too is that most of the numbers obviously are changeable and scalable right we also don't know 100 this is the beta yeah we also don't know like his um i forget his name and i'm totally sorry but he was in chat last week when we were doing this and he talked about that he still felt that it was absolutely in play testing that she's more successful as a support and ruba ruba and um because the other the mid laners do a better job at what what you would be putting her there for now i still think in like if we're talking competitive that you know you're going to be able to to worry less about the damage maybe that another mid laner might be able to put out but you're gaining so much more control and ability to control the map and and all that stuff and that's fine but maybe what from what they're looking at in a quote-unquote solo queue environment it's it's almost not worth taking her mid because you're going to be missing out on a lot more damage because you don't have the coordination to be able to really utilize her kit to the fullest extent unless you're in a competitive situation where you're out all in comms and stuff and so that's something to kind of consider that maybe in competitive style where everybody's able to follow up on all of her cc and slows and all that stuff that it's it could be overpowered in a mid lane role otherwise it's really only going to be super beneficial in a duo where absolutely the person's going to consistently follow up on on the cc that's something to consider yeah i can say um well speaking about cc cc let's talk about a containment fence so this lasts for two and a quarter seconds at level one three and a quarter seconds at level three three and a quarter seconds is a long time to be trapped inside of a fucking cage in a late game it is like when your ttk is like one to two seconds and that's the thing that i keep thinking about is that in predecessor as of the last test at least right mango something you and i talked about was the time to kill late game is instantaneous right it goes from forever at the early game to anybody supports included can 100 to zero somebody like that and so the late game potential of having a three and a half second field that they're stuck in is kind of crazy and yes everybody has a flash right in predecessor everybody has the ability to blink away from a target with verticality and a lot of people have movement abilities but still all it takes is you baiting those things out or knowing that they're down to get a guaranteed kill like that's and all and i don't i would say that's the part of her kid that i'm most concerned by is the healthy feeling of that cage being three and a half seconds yeah i think uh somebody in comments uh pointed out last video um that they think that it should be similar to um oh my gosh totally fine no not by garr's in uh in topling um his little bubble thing um grave digger guy totally right yeah his you know how he has a little trap and you can shoot it oh yeah yeah multiple hits there you go so having i apologize guys normally we sort this stuff out and then you guys get it we edit it anyway you're getting it all live in raw we're raw dog in this anyway so uh yeah you being able to shoot it or hit it or something like that i do having a health field maybe to each section you know what i mean so people can turn around and shoot at it or whatever and maybe um and be able to get out of it that way is a good idea i think and i think that is probably the best balance if they want to keep the cage as a basic ability if they want to keep the like that functionality of the cage i think that's probably one of the better balance choices is to make it that after three basic attacks the one one panel of the wall comes down and that with that you can then walk through or like something like that where so early game it's very very strong and then late game it's really strong against people that don't have high attack speed but there is some counterplay to the ability without needing to burn a crucial blink or or whatever it may be but if you do that then it's blocking right now it doesn't block basic attacks or any or it doesn't block anything it just blocks the movement of the hero if you make it so that you can pop it down then you're kind of buffing it a little bit because now it's blocking basic attacks i think it's a bigger nerf than it's above because if they can get out of it like that's that's at the end of the day it's always going to be a giant nerf to the ability right being able to get out of it faster than that three and a half seconds okay i agree robert by the way decker makes me want to play it right more it's true so i think if anything outside of just the decker stuff if this is what they're like you know how they're approaching their kits and stuff like that going into early access and into release by the end of the year i'm really excited i like the way that they've got their numbers situated on here it just looks really clean it looks exciting it looks like something that is you know polish and professional and ready to be kind of tweaked and messed with and uh if all the kits are going to start looking and feeling like decker's current kit i'm really excited to see what it comes up with i'll be really happy to see people play in decker because that means i'm not shoehorned into support and i can be fucking go fame in i love me some of the fey so um next up is her stasis bomb this is pretty much the same as it always was however i really love this they reward you with a longer stun the further away you hit the stasis bomb which um this is just a great decision all around as far as i'm concerned it rewards the player that hits that long range stun however if you're stunning from somebody that far away most of the time they're just they're going to be on their own so nobody's going to really be able to follow up on that so it's not as frustrating to play against um i mean of course it will be frustrating like um like a bar situation a lot of times you're landing stuns when the enemy team has lost a teamfight and people are trying to run away and you land that long range blast stun like your teams definitely go be able to catch up with them now which is pretty awesome um but again 50 magical damage scaling on the stasis bomb this thing's going to hit like a truck most of the time i would expect this will be the ability for still max first to get the benefits of that longer stun both at short range and at long range and with that it does 220 base plus that 50 percent dude this thing can hit like a truck late game and it's going to feel that way every time you get hit by it i still think that most people will max q because of the lower cooldowns but uh yeah i agree but it's after you i think just anytime you're rewarded for because that's such a hard thing to do right especially when you start adding in verticality and terrain and stuff like so if you do hit it and you stun them stun them like oh dude yeah everybody's going to feel like a god now what you're also going to end up having though is the guys who are going to sit back at turret and just try and lob over and over and over again never and just hope that they get one um it does 700 damage bro why would i step out any farther than i have to right later fire for effect fire for effect i'm also secretly hoping what this kind of stuff to that they come up with like a quote unquote achievements or something like that that you get like you know so if someone lands like that max range stun or something you get like a little achievement bonus for yourself or something like that in game i think that's just cool like a reward people for doing cool shit in your game um but yeah no the hurt damage does seem really high so i'm curious how it's all going to really play out as far as how they're looking at scaling everybody else and all their items and uh and all that stuff because we don't know exactly what it'll look like as far as once you have items on you what kind of you know damage resistances they might be looking at how they're wanting to you know i know you guys got to play test it but they might have revamped a lot of stuff and so this is a peek and maybe how they're looking and maybe they're going higher damage because they want games to be a bit more you know aggressive and quicker and they're not looking for games to go into that like you know 45 minute range they're wanting to be in the you know 25 to 35 minute range you know i think they'll know more after we get our hands on the game and people actually play decker yeah and then they can start adjusting those knobs tuning tuning the numbers a little bit um i do want to really quick address a comment that john just made in chat um yes everything you have basic attack damage and ability damage so all your basic attacks deal the same type of damage it's not like paragon where you had physical in an energy base like grim.exe was an energy based carry so increasing his energy power would increase the power of his basic attacks it's not like that in predecessor it's just like it is in fault where you just have basic attack damage and ability power damage what about robber's question how does the scaling character other supports currently in game you know what i really don't know man i wish now that they're giving these these figures out of game i wish they would update their website to have all the current characters in there and even leave the work in progress sticker on there that's fine right oh god yeah but definitely that would show us what everybody is so yeah this doesn't feel like it's in a vacuum because right now it's like great she has 50 scaling what does everybody else have does gideon have 80% does what like put this in context for us a little bit better i would love to see something like that on their website at least not gideon at 80% though oh god i remember that very first time they they did a beta not not the very first time the second time i was gonna say that first time was uh a little rough but i fucking nabash i was like deleting junglers with support nabash and wasn't building like damage or anything but it was still just fucking destroying people when combustion was busted to hell dude yes i remember that test dude exactly when everybody damage carries everybody was building combustion because it had it was instead of like 10 10 extra damage it was like a thousand percent they had two extra zeros or something ridiculous on there oh it was fantastic this didn't make it to the game but there was a test one time that it was just a couple of us content creators and gadgets bubble they had it set to where every tick of damage would deal the max damage of accumulated damage of the bubble still like britik tried to gank me i was on gadget i threw down the bubble boom he's gone they fixed that of course before they put brilliant yeah that shit was kind of hilarious um let's let's talk about her ultimate now the ion strike this is where she summons down like in a big area like a strike you've got an outer area and an inner area inner area they get stunned outer area they get slowed and this has 80 percent magical damage scaling starts at 160 caps out at 340 so they did say that they want her to be able to follow up with her own abilities and not rely on her team this let's might know at that uh follow up and deal all of the damage are not the same thing um especially so at max level she's doing 340 damage base plus 80 through the entire circle that's the thing that bothers me the most if this was the inner part of the circle that also stunned okay reward the tiny or hitbox sure with more damage sure right but the fact that the entire circle is going to do that insane of damage right if we go back to my example of let's say they get she has hit that let's say 80 percent if she has a thousand magical power or magical damage there's 800 she's doing 1140 damage in a single hit if she hits this at all that's insane right that's just absolutely bonkers she will kill a carry single-handedly with an ultimate and either her photon disruptor or her stasis bomb just those two things is all she needs it's a lot of damage and it looks cool as shit by the way 100 her whole kit looks way cool it's a sexy looking kit it's a lot of damage i mean i i said it in the first video i was like dude this might push her from my perspective into mid lane you guys were initially kind of hesitant but i was just looking at what she could do not even the numbers just the fact that she could do it in the first place put me into a position where i was thinking dude she could just be a badass control major and on that note man use just walks out of course yeah he just he doesn't even care anymore uh just to you guys although we are live we are just hanging out here uh welcome everybody who's just now joining in what's up what's up thank you for being here if you're enjoying this please let us know that you like this style of content because uh we've been trying to get mangoes to do this for just a little bit uh so if you're yeah feel free to throw us your questions we might not get them to you right away but we are looking at chat and uh and if it's a good question we'll make sure to read it out and uh get you an answer if we can provide that for you but uh all right thank you guys all for being here would you want to talk about the predecessor uh yes i think all right let's move on to a thorough a thorough so uh jelly of course i'll let you take the lead on the ethereal discussions you are whoa we froze for a second we're back though we're good don't worry yeah i was worried yeah so uh as of today today for the live stream we have one post out on facebook and so if you haven't seen that go check out ethereal's facebook as of tomorrow when the video comes out we'll have two post out one on facebook one on twitter i believe it is um and it's going over the new item tree that we have in ethereal so one kind of i guess uh area that we felt the item tree needed more improvement was physical damage characters not really having a form of cooldown reduction consistently they had to go basically one or two very specific items to get any kind of cooldown reduction so this whole tree is for physical damage ability based characters to get the damage and the cooldown reduction that they want to really thrive and then as we get later in the week it'll so we'll do posts on all of our social medias so facebook and twitter we're first and it's going to be instagram on wednesday it's going to be youtube on thursday and then friday will be a discord post with all of them together kind of going into more detail for each one um and it's these items they have the effects that the tier three items have are wild and i can't wait for you guys to to see them because they're they're so good it's ridiculous now when i saw this um i immediately thought of lia okay and i don't know how much i'm allowed to say but um the shurikens work pretty good on lia all right but yeah she's a very she's a physical based but very ability focused hero she's the flying jungler uh of ethereal and um yeah a lot of people trying to build her straight attack damage no she is very much all about those those abilities and hitting really hard really fast and then getting the fuck away so well man goose is throwing because lia is a magical based character so i don't know why man goose is building shurikens on her basic hard and she has build that reduction sure but she's a magical based character um maybe it's just a cooldown reduction because i was able to fucking i mean you experienced it yeah i was also 200 health man goose so none dropped you from like full to almost dead of course your lifesteal brought you right back up so maybe if i wasn't building that you would have been full to dead instead of full to almost dead um but for characters that are coming out and assassins this is going to be a really big item tree for them and that's kind of where it was developed to give you guys a little bit of an idea of what some of those potential tier three effects are going to be so yeah it's it's going to be super cool i hate that they just said that i just saw the wonder of the cosmos that's so true thanks window oh that's great wait i never mind your cosmos don't worry oh boy but yeah so it's it's gonna be a cool item tree and i'm excited for i saw on the facebook post today there were a couple comments on there about like oh this item's already broken i was like stupid guys like this is because the item today was called the broken shuriken people already complaining that it's already too strong that's good i like that um yeah i'm excited viking what did you think i mean i'm i just think it'll be cool for a more itemization option right like even if you're just like you're not going like full shuriken the whole way like if you just feel like you know what i need to be able to have this item in my kit to be able to do this thing that i like to do better like giving more you know exploring to the players and you know i just think that that's always valuable you know and obviously once things get more fine-tuned and it's not as overpowered right now uh it'll be cool to see what it looks like um because it's just any game that where itemization feels just like you have to build this or you're basically not playing right that's that's it feels bad so anytime you can kind of build away from it or if you feel like you need to be able to you know itemize into another build versus one build that's when the game really gets exciting from a strategic level and that that excites me um but yeah no i think it's cool uh we do have a few questions in chat if you guys want to jump on those i don't know go for it uh man goose are you which one do you want to hit does that make you dug dimadome if we're yes on da and cosmo i don't remember that much about fairly odd parents windy would like to know does playing mobas with friends actually lead to a better experience if they are new and you are experienced i think so uh i think viking would tell you that a show kind of question though i think viking would tell you that it depends on who the experienced player you're playing with is what are you trying to say jelly oh i'm not saying anything about him i'm saying things about me oh i thought you're saying shit about me i thought you're talking shit about me oh well yeah that that's a whole different thing at least one of us is good at the games usually uh no i i do agree with what uh what jelly's kind of uh saying like it depends on the patience of the the person who is teaching right like if you if you tend to be somebody who who struggles when people struggle to learn the game that you're already familiar with then yeah it's probably not going to be a good time and it might be more annoying to play with said friend uh than if you're able to just kind of go with the flow and you know ride the waves of disappointment that is going to be somebody who's learning especially if we're talking in this space especially there's really only one mode that you can play and that is in the competitive mode if you're playing like on you know in league you can play like aram with your friends you can play some other like you know whatever for fun mode there is and and get them some experience playing different champions or whatever but because the 3d moba space it's all skill shots all the time it's new characters that nobody's ever heard of or seen before that don't necessarily work like any characters they're familiar with and there's a lot to learn in general even supports which you would argue is supposed to be the easiest one to learn is still fairly difficult everything's difficult we talk about this all the time skill floor is very high for 3rd person mobas so anybody who's new coming into that is going to immediately be hit by a struggle bus and if you're the friend trying to teach them and you can't deal with their struggling maybe not you should just solo queue at that point i think new players should just be good at the game and if they're not going to be good at the game off the bat they should just should not play this just fucking leave yeah exactly just get out if you get matched up against somebody that's been playing for years then and you lose then you're just bad yep 100% been true it'll be bad at the game and it'll be fine yeah and that sounds like the perfect segue over to fault we got nothing for fault though so we're going to segue over to over bro but no no no i i think it's important why do we have nothing for fault right there's nothing for fault that is something to talk about is and not even because they didn't scorch oh my god right as we started someone asked a question christos uh it sounds ambitious that they're going to announce iggy during gamescom more likely they will just announce the return of rictor because oh why is rictor still disabled um he's going to tell you guys for so long okay yeah it's the their rictor versus my rictor right my rictor is always bad but their rictor is always a god um but man i don't know like that why is rictor still disabled with no like update as to what's going on it's been three weeks now and if it is true that they're waiting till gamescom to do iggy and scorch it's gonna happen oh no gamescom is at the end of the month i don't i think it's gonna be the rictor stuff dude i don't know why you guys spoke it into existence it's good that's what's gonna happen now here's a joke that only fault fans like real hardcore fault fans will get what the fuck is pappy doing right now like i never really realized that pappy was on the road to 2000 rictor games and now he's just waiting uh edger brings up a good point um what does fault need to do so they don't die in three to four months when pred comes out release content that's a big one the better question is to you edger like what's going to keep you playing fault versus going to predecessor or over prime when they come out right that's that's the real question because the devs have they're the devs they're doing what they're going to do but what is it that you're looking for as a player that's the big thing is that so what do you want them to be doing to keep you interested in their game when those other games come out and it doesn't matter because that's that's really the question that faults trying to answer they're doing their own way of answering it but that's that's really what the players need to be be there it won't matter what the devs do if the players aren't there yep 100 um it's i really really hope they're not waiting for gamescom to do whatever the next move is because that is a month and a half of free to play that they did absolutely nothing afterwards other than hotfix patches and i and i didn't think about it until i saw that message but that is entirely possible that that's what they're doing and that terrifies me well i'll tell you something that they do well that during one of the predecessor play tests like weekend play tests i actually did play fault for a little bit during that play test instead of just playing predecessor the entire time and the reason was is because i was very close to getting like i think silver decker or golden decker or something like that like during her with her mastery progression so i wanted to finish that out real quick so they have that master mastery progression which is player retention giving them a goal to work towards um so they but they kind of eliminated that with the uh loot boxes because now you don't really have a goal to work towards because you can't work towards having so much matter to unlock this or that the only goal really is mastery so they kind of shot that's an even that's another it's another check in the cons column for their loot box system yeah i it's i'm nervous for them uh i really hope they don't wait till games come i really really hope they don't wait till games come maybe this is the week that we'll get iggy and scorch but so far every week that we haven't gotten iggy and scorch i've sent both of you a message saying how do we not have iggy and scorch yet like what and granted i've been saying iggy and scorch are coming for like six months now man goose but it's still but still what the heck like where where is it it just seems like um and i know we do this all the time with fault and i don't want it to come across this way but it just unfortunately does it's like it just feels like they're sleeping at the wheel like they are literally the only one that are launched but everybody in this space who's paying attention knows the other two are coming and that's so it's like if your current player base is all aware of the competition that is coming your way and you're just kind of like cruise control you know in the slow lane on the freeway like you're just i don't know man i see to me i'm like why aren't we in the fast lane why aren't we really pushing narratives why aren't we talking more about what our plans are for a month from now three months from now six months like we as a player base i want to know like what's keeping me investing more time into this game currently than just as a holdover or placeholder for one of these other ones that seem on paper now then we don't know these games are going to be good but on paper they seem exciting and fun because the current version of what we have is not really meeting that need if the current version was meeting that need i don't think way less of the player base would give a shit about overprime and prejudices are coming out but we give a shit about overprime and prejudices are coming out because fault's not that good it just doesn't fit what we're looking for and i know every person in the chat and us we could have various ideas of what we're looking for for me i just want more fun games to play and to have more fun games i don't want to each game to feel the same five champions every single fucking game and that's really what it seems like i get every time i go in it's gonna be giddy in mid gonna be you know whatever it's just like i don't know it's kind of boring it's fun at first the gameplay itself is fine it's not the game play it's just the lack of it's the stagnation of releases and it's just it's inconsistent with when you get new things or when something is exciting or even even balance patches balance patches i firmly believe league of legends while they do a lot of good balance passes there are definitely balanced patches that come out that are just to throw the game in the air and make it exciting for everybody to figure stuff out again right and so it's oh you can do that a lot and and there's hopefully you're doing that and it's still mostly balanced but it's shifting things in such a way that it's exciting for players to play again and fault does not have a lot of those patches whether it's new things or even just current balance that makes things drastically different to the point that they're uh exciting consistently i love that fault is free to play right now i've been telling everybody who would listen that fault's not that bad like they got mixed reviews on steam which is like way work like i was looking for free steam games the other day and like i was just straight up passing by anything that had mixed reviews and and then it clicked on my head it's like holy shit like that is a really big thing um it doesn't deserve the mixed reviews that it has it they should really should be positive reviews however if we look at the hard truth of it people are using fault as a placeholder for predecessor and overprime and hoping that predecessor and overprime will be better and that's that's horrible to say and it and it hurts me to say it because i really love strange matter and the way they do things um i love that they're so self-reliant but i mean it was in the it was in one of my comments where somebody was watching a god i can't believe forget his name he comments a lot but anyway he he was talking about he was he got into watching fault on twitch and the first streamer he watched was somebody that was raging at his team and then fucking just all to have forward and laughed about it saying what are they gonna do yep and that's like you see that attitude a lot from fault streamers and it's uh it's terrible there's nothing sms could do about that though that's just that's just the community and that kind of sucks it kind of sucks that they really can't uh the commenters james eastwood i do want to say i don't think that there's nothing that sms can do like i do think that there's stuff that they can do one they can have whoever their their um well i would say their community manager i would want them to be really active in the chats of of the streamers and if they see somebody creating a you know less than what they want you know i then they would be getting proactive either at least in the chat and saying like hey this is not something that we want to see our game doing or whatever and you know talking to that guy or giving him a temp ban or whatever it is that needs to be done um and like and and actually come out and put to me it comes out to like hey we saw this streamer talking like this they alt f4 just like we talked about it in discord we saw this guy do this thing we were happy to announce that guy has been banned for seven days we had a chat with him in the dms letting him know that that is not the behavior that we're looking for for people to be presenting to uh to the community um so we hope that he does better when he comes back to our game and we hope to see you guys on or whatever that that's an easy to do tweet and it makes people whoever's falling along go like they give a shit i would be stoked i'm like whoa dude i would have been messaging you guys as soon as i saw the tweet come through like bro did you see they banned that streamer and they like they're being so proactive about the dude it would make those two things but it's all encompassing they need to release more content they need to be more engaged with their community they need to be talking about what their road plans are it feels like the obvious things are there and for some reason they're just choosing not to do them and the pacing that i think they need to do it and maybe they don't feel like they need to do it they they have some unknown stratagem that is better than us and i'm not in a place to run a business or be a game developer but it just seems like people are waiting for the other two games instead of playing your game and to me that's not good maybe what do i know editor flesco in chat says even some partners are talks because fuck yeah so i doubt they do that to a regular player um yeah some of the partners aren't a little i'm not gonna name your names i mean i know one guy who tries to talk shit about people's beards and that's just weird he's actually the positive driving force behind 100 fault i know windows in chat but bearded is like the fault fanboy number one is the me of ethereal for fault like he's just that that's bearded and and that's not even like a slight on bearded like that's what that's a great thing for them to have and i wish more of the partners emulated that same feeling i it's actually with that in mind with bearded because like i know we all like to back and forth with bearded um but he actually does make me want to play the game more when i see his passion and like how excited he is about stuff and like how much he actually gives the shit the thing that's weird to me is it feels like bearded is doing more and gives more of a shit than the people who are making the game and that that to me is a that's a red flag bearded and windu bearded and windu both no windows in chat no no i think windu does a great job also but bearded is just way more active when i see him in like the discord and stuff like that and i'm not sure maybe i'm just missing windu when he's in there i'm not saying that windu's not but bearded just seems to be proactively going out of his way trying to find ways to engage with people who are you know detractors or whatever um and i i think that speaks to the the game is good there's no there's reasons for i think bearded to be sticking up for him and trying to go to bat for them um but again it does seem like a lot of times he's the one really doing a better job a lot of times than even sms is doing to promote their game and to try and create a positive environment um so yeah anyway all right well i think we've talked about fault enough we got a shit on it tonight let's move on to overprime which didn't have too many updates but they did um they had a they had two shorts two youtube shorts one of them were promoting their discord telling people that's the way that's the place where they can find information which is absolutely true i think they've done a great job anytime there's a social post this is something the other companies don't do the other companies will do social posts and if you don't have twitter you won't ever see it or they'll do a post on like tiktok or something if you don't have tiktok you'll never see that post yeah everything they do gets linked in their discord so you can go to their discord and have one single source for all things uh overprime which i think is really cool the other short they did was much like they did with murdoch last week they did this with kalari now if you look up go ahead and look up original paragon teasers these are exactly the way that epic promoted paragon and i think this kind of encapsulates a lot of what we know about overprime overprime i think is a modernized love letter to paragon it is not paragon i think that's a pretty good summary of them and i'm really sorry for talking so much without hitting you guys up but i have to pee so i'm going to be right back fine go get out do that i do actually that's like a really profound thing that mangas just said there that's actually i hadn't really put it together that way i don't know about you but like that kind of yeah like a little bit of a a mage love letter to the guys who really gave the way because we all know with paragon right the really it'd be especially you guys who are like really big paragon like those devs were working hard on that game and he ran it towards the end there was a lot of things that we obviously don't have like you know privy access to the kind of through the game in a weird space but when paragon first came out man that you could tell that that game was being built by people who wanted to make a cool fucking game and i think that's why the community is still so engaged with these paragon successors is because of what they created initially so i do that was such a cool thing for for mangas to point out i do think that overprime has out of the para zombies really kind of not shy to walk away from the things that they loved about paragon also and are doing kind of cool amages i didn't even think about that's a really cool thing what did you think about it yeah i mean i completely agree that that's that's exactly what overprime feels like is it's not it's paying credit where credit's do without making that their identity at the same time right where i feel like someone like predecessor makes it their identity that like oh yeah we're we're paragon like we that's where we came from paragon too right and fault is is kind of doing it in their own way as well overprime is really trying to like hit it out of the park but in their own direction while still paying the right respect to where they came from at the same time and i think people will argue against that single because they changed the names they're not doing that but they've created so much else at this point they could have created an entirely new game they did not need to do what they have been yeah i agree with that i think they could have just created their own assets i think them using the assets probably is more because they love those assets themselves just as much as we all do and um they wanted to give them new names because they did want to differentiate themselves and when you google the names of the the champions you're not going to get paragon or you're not going to get falter predecessor you're going to get overprime which i think is good you know so they're doing the right things to do separate in a way while also paying homage and um yeah and again for me just more cool stuff coming out they're consistently basically sense uh the play test i feel like it's every two weeks or week and a half we get something whether big or small we get something from the dev team even if it's a fish play item i don't know mangas you stole my joke and i'm so mad about it i was gonna say console way and i second i saw covetous lemon in chat uh no but it's i can bring up a good point the changing of the names for overprime is such a good idea from a search engine perspective yeah because they're all unique right they're not you're not going to type in murdoch or you're not going to type in scud guide and get predecessor or fault right you're going to type in scud guide and get scud guides for overprime because that's the only game that has that name for that character brilliant idea from a marketing perspective i know the marketing something or others uh don't mean a lot to people but but it's a brilliant idea and i i think it's great it's just me that i don't like marketing people like anybody that's involved in marketing whatsoever just don't like them that makes sense your relationship now makes a lot of sense yeah it doesn't it's weird because like he also likes Kathleen who had a really huge background in marketing and and i've worked in sales which could be part of marketing no sales is not marketing you know marketing which they were sales i actually like any of you but your last pair that's all right that's fair anyway so here's the other thing with uh i couldn't find it today i looked all through their youtube channel i couldn't find it they did like a what should we call it like a pre like um they did their cinematic trailer trailer they did their gameplay trailer or whatever and it was like again a modernized love letter to paragon like it was very similar very much in the vein of paragon's old um gameplay trailer but with like their own overprime twist mm-hmm so i don't know i don't know what you guys talked about while i was taking a we we talked about how terrible you were uh i figured it's your community so of course we did but they all know that already so they pay attention um but uh i'm wondering when these games will run out of epic assets how well off the company will be i mean so we know overprime already is releasing every three months they're coming out with a unique hero and then every month they're doing a pair or an epic asset which i think is the great way for them to slowly lean into providing their own content for the game even if they already have two characters that we know of theoretically ready for the game to be played in some capacity um it's a great way for them to lean off of the epic assets while still building themselves up i really i would say in my levels of concern or like uh not using epic assets i'm least worried about overprime i'm in the middle about predecessor and i'm horrified for what fault's gonna do when they run out of epic assets to use i mean they can't even release the current epic assets so that's what i mean uh i i agree i think overprime does as shown at least their ability to put together really interesting kits through even using epic assets um and if they take that same kind of approach when they can just do whatever they want because they aren't confined to the ideas that people are going to come in with preconceived notions of what it's good should do uh i think that that they're going to be probably putting out really good stuff and um i think with predecessor getting the money that they're getting they should have no excuses to be able to really hire some you know good idea people who could put stuff you know on paper and make it work um so i think it's possible but i agree with winju's take that it'll be interesting once once all three of these games are out how everything works and then when they stop using just the epic assets that we all are familiar with what does the game look like then is it still really cool and interesting i don't know but it's it's a very cool topic last always king when did you sneak in here actually i do want to reorganize my list real quick sorry may use i'm gonna cut you off to reorganize my list yeah okay yeah least worried i'm least worried about ethereal because we don't use epic assets thank you very much let me just put that out there thank you no i mean we've seen teased um well three different new heroes from soleave we've seen a bell rena and then that fucking ninja girl with the sword um yeah and then we've seen one for predecessor we haven't seen anything from uh from strange matter yeah so it's good the sword looked very similar to calari i agree like it other than the ultimate that she used or what i assume was an ultimate she looked like she could have just been a calari skin i have a question do we really think that console matters halo halo for the record does console matter does console really matter to the the bigger player base that that is in the third that's something i completely forgot to mention when we were talking about predecessor when we were talking about x sundown he's very focused on keeping predecessor in a in a state where it will be viable for console correct and i think that's absolutely amazing and great because we know like jedi's joking around we all know that console is a huge huge part of if these games are going to be successful or not and again the only company that we've seen solid evidence for console production for is soleave with overprime they actually showed a member of their community playing the game on the ps5 yep the other thing as solid as this could be taken i was looking at predecessor's website the other day and it does state that they are a free to play which is an important thing because we haven't been sure if they're going to charge for early access them stating on their website free to play already implies they're not but we'll have to wait and see if that changes and then it also says game for pc and console so that's that's the only like other than their statements of like yeah we'll eventually develop for console this being front and center on their website implies that it's somewhere further down production than just an idea yep yeah i definitely don't want to see them go the route of core which i think at this point nobody even remembers core but core was one of the original paragon remakes that they ended up going tits up but uh actually i think they might be still around but they're using their own assets i don't know anyway one of the things they did in their in their like proof of concept videos the very first proof of concept video they put this um end user agreement screen with playstation which i was able to get to when i owned a um a landscaping business all you had to do was have like a tax code for a business yep and you can get to the screen and they posted it and people lost their goddamn minds thinking it was definitely coming to playstation didn't sms do the same thing kind up but not really i didn't post that screen i swear they post oh you're right they didn't post the direct yeah i do remember that for core it was like the hardcore direct like notification that they got via email um and yeah it'll be interesting to see for sure what comes about with all of these games and console and all of those things because it will be definitely interesting to see how the game shifts from that right because we what was it overprime said that they're not going to have crossplay enabled which i think on on an initial launch right or in early access right they said that that's on currently what they have wasn't that what he said i thought they said at all but i can't i well if that's true that would be bad because we talked about that when they had that big interview that we talked about that they were not doing crossplay and that we think they should change that i don't think i've heard them say that they're changing that officially we're negated on that statement yeah so that okay maybe i'm misremembering well i then yeah that is bad because you're having useful player bases is not in my opinion not bad it's not good you need to have them to be able to play with each other that's part of the what made paragon great was you had heroes like more gash as much as i should honor that console players could use you had revenant that console players could carry with and it in fact paragon was even better for melee with one console was better for melee heroes because you had more control of her movement um that third person aspect of paragon is what made it really good on console and being able to play with as a pc user being able to that most of my friends were on playstation saying like that's how i made most of my friends in paragon i would love to see that come back there it is f a q see boys they said they're testing it internal and willing to only worried about fairness it's in their discord in the f a q all right boom um and i did find the post from june 3rd 2020 of sms announcing that they've taken the first step toward console on their website so it's been two years are we still on the first they did say they heard it uh now it's like team to do it right they gotta be real careful about saying anything about console though because once you say console people like i said lose their goddamn minds um i've said it before i'm saying again right now 70 of paragon's player base console users so that's the audience that if they're going to recapture the paragon audience they need to recapture that console audience because i know a few people who bought pcs specifically to play these paragon remakes but not everybody can just fucking buy a pc for these paragon remakes i mean i will say too uh almost 100 percent that they're all going to come out in ps5 i know a lot of people want them to come out in ps4 it's not gonna happen man so they originally when a lot of these games were first being announced just in general there was the rules of if you're developing for ps4 you have to develop for ps5 in the last three months i think it is sony has since dropped that stipulation you're no longer required to develop just or for both you now really can just develop for ps5 so it is entirely possible that they're not developing for both anymore they dropped ps4 and are just going to ps5 which is done what's up uh in in eukios in eukios normal should be cross play compatible but rank should be 100 should 100 percent be split i kind of agree with that i i it's i would love to be able to play ranked with my friends so from that perspective that feels like it sucks but from a competitive integrity integrity there's absolutely an aspect that having console players on in a mixed ranked game could be detrimental it will i mean the only way that really works though is if they have enough players to be able to split it like that's tough uh what why does it look like viking jedi is punished by jelly knees and is quietly shaking his head oh well you haven't been to our streams lately because we get punished in this stream all the time it just gets edited out it just gets edited out yet jedi is being punished because he couldn't go down far enough true um my beard got in the way i just thought of something else to say and i just refrained when are we going to mobile though no no thank you though i mean i could see a for prime doing it i could see so i call i could see a for probably would and good i mean everybody's got loop boxes what the fuck why not go to mobile and just use the full mobile economy you saw it too making couples counseling boys call it is it's perfect for cosmo and wanda too so you know all right we gotta wrap this up boys i'm getting texts from the wife she wants to go and do stuff so let's wrap it up oh what kind of stuff um oh no all right yeah yeah let's go ahead and wrap it up uh well i mean by you if you want to go you can go ahead and go uh let's why am i trapped you gotta stay here um okay so that kind of closes out the um official for the minions but uh let's talk with chat a little bit and please any questions that they have interact with the chat since we're live yeah um and we have a lot xbedo i've seen a lot of people i've never seen before which is awesome uh not loax i'm sorry if i've never seen you before but i've never seen you before so welcome welcome in um okay if mangu says he hasn't seen you before i've seen you in my heart and you've always been there don't let mangu's talk you like to you like this all right mangu's the older version of timmy turner growing your questions and we'll uh we'll start trying to get teams what about console players can choose to start a ranked pc players smite has this if i'm not wrong i'd be okay with an option i think yeah a lot of the times options cover a lot of a world of hurt right like being able to toggle a button that says i mean like league of legends for instance when you're a brand new player in league of legends you have all chat disabled you have to go in there and toggle a button to say that you want to hear you want to be able to get voice or not voice messages just messages in general from the other team right i think that's perfectly fine right i think a lot of these games can just have toggleable options that cover up a world of hurt i agree you know it can go both ways too like um we saw with uh uh vape part of the masquerade blood hunt that console auto aim was so overtuned that people were just fucking slaying pc players on console because they didn't actually they just had to get the cursor somewhere in the vicinity of somebody called headshots the same thing happened with call of duty oh dude yeah it became like there was a i think they fixed it a lot now but that basically every major call of duty streamer had was switching to playing on on controller and console because the aim assist was just ungodly good like it was just too easy to just laser people especially with certain setups that you could get in the builds um yeah i mean i i do think that the games are getting it would of the the the player base that i'd be worried about it it would be for the console players right but especially when you start getting into um free to play games where you know hacking can become a thing and we did see this in overprime they're absolutely were hacks in the game and people were you know using exploits and all that stuff so it's rare or not impossible but rare or on console because we'll help for whatever reason the way that their setup is um yeah so i don't know i think for me the the concern has always been when i think about like console and i did see this in paragon was the mousing keyboard users reporting to the game through either xbox or playstation so uh they're you know that way they get the better aim with the aim assist in all that nonsense um now i didn't do it for that reason but when apex first came out i bought a thing to convert my mousing keyboard inputs on ps4 so i could play apex with my friends on ps4 and that absolutely gave me an insane advantage yeah i went from couple kills a game on pc to 15 kill games instantaneously because i had my comfortability of mousing keyboard and the aim assist of controller and it was insane yeah so that would be the only other main maybe concerns with some of the crossplay type stuff or even in general but uh to me it depends on the player base right well if they don't have a big enough player base they have to have everybody connected right that would be like fault you know separating epic and in steam right now that would be just stupid you would it would there be no benefit whatsoever doing that it would just be yeah it would be garbaud but stun asset interesting interesting question do you think fault should bring down the learning curve a bit to pred or over primes level and i don't think they should but i think they need to onboard players better so they understand that learning curve to the same level that pred and over prime have okay so follow-up question does fault have the ability to be able to onboard players effective enough to be able to do that versus just going the other route and making it easier right now no and again um strange matter studios isn't in a place where they have a lot of money they're completely community funded which has its pros one of the cons is that they have to pick and choose what they put their meager amount of money into yeah and um i think player onboarding is probably something that they should put a little more attention to but they can't put as much into it like like they can't just shit skins out like over prime does you know what i mean yeah i mean it's we talked about in the past man goose of while having more money can bring other issues of like external influence it allows you to diversify what you're working on significantly more out of 100 things over prime can work on five at a time predecessor can work on three at a time but fault is always down to one thing at a time and it makes a difference and it makes a difference in terms of progression of development as well uh do you guys see really good question yeah do you guys see a future where all three of these games can thrive at the same time absolutely not yeah not a chance at most two um but i don't see all three of them i don't see mainly i don't see fault and predecessor existing in the same space at the same time right right those two are the biggest gonna be over probably the fault or over prime and predecessor and if you go by right now if you go by the community response to both games right now i think it will be over prime and predecessor that can change i like i've been tracking these games since fucking 2018 i've seen a lot of shit come and go i think a prime example is core right core was the favorite to win and predecessor was the underdog and now it's completely different predecessor was a huge underdog predecessor was smaller a smaller underdog than than fault compared to compared to core and now core is only gone and predecessor is on top you want to field that one uh does ethereal have plans to improve the response to non i think that's supposed to be usa players like i played with pred with 140 ping but it felt like 30 ping absolutely we actually explained to have servers in a bunch of different places just for our tests because they were trying to find either errors that we had before and had fixed or whatever it was it's we were trying to keep it more localized so we have less variables to worry about in terms of what potential errors could prop up but absolutely we're planning to expand to make the ping more friendly to people all over the place uh expido if you guys had to rank the paris zombies according to which you think will succeed years down the line who's first and who's last people always ask that and think that i won't answer but i will i don't i don't give a shit i'll give it shit either i think predecessor over prime fault and then if you want me to throw ethereal in there i think sorry jelly predecessor ethereal over prime fault oh i'm not i'm happy to be second honestly i'm surprised he ranked it that high so go ahead go ahead you could do yours if you i think if i'm doing so i'm biased on ethereal so i'm not going to include ethereal in this but uh i think for the three paris zombies honestly it would depend on what day you asked me that i would say predecessor or over prime for first i think they're so close that like if i just came off of a predecessor playtest i'd be like oh yeah predecessor but if i just came off an over prime playtest i'd be like yeah over prime no problem so those are interchangeable honestly but i would definitely put fault in third for that i'm kind of i mean i didn't get to play predecessor so i have a harder time ranking predecessor currently but just based off of what you know i've learned over the last uh few weeks to months uh it seems like a really fun game um and they look like they're really doing all the right thing so for me it'd probably be over prime predecessor ethereal fault the only reason why even ethereal because it's so hard to rank it with those three i think ethereal is its own game guys it's if you would have if you would have asked me ethereal like i don't know what when did we when did you bring me in as part of like a year and a half two years ago i probably would be like dude i'm not even sure ethereal will make it to the light of day beyond just this like 50 people who even know it exists right now now with where it's currently at like man it's i mean it still has a lot a long way to go but i think it's it's so far removed it's still it's a third person moba but it's not in the same i know we bring it into fdm um and but it's not really in the same um for anybody who doesn't know about ethereal all that much like it's not in the same realm as these other para zombies it's more akin to like a i guess to a smite maybe if you really want to kind of compare it to something but even then i wouldn't say it's smite it's fucking it's just its own thing just like how smite isn't a para zombie ethereal is not a para zombie that's what i mean when comparing it to smite it's not the same people it's the 3d chess of moba's it's weird it's different it's good it's weird it's different it's and i think someone brought up an interesting thing of uh i think it may have been des no sorry it's robert jones i think fault is a better game but predecessor just feels so much better and i think that's an important hallmark of the games is that the feel of the game because and if i attributed that to rankings i think it still falls in that same rankings that i did before of fault and over or fault and predecessor sorry over prime and predecessor are interchangeable for me that like they feel really really good and they're way up there in terms of feel but then the feel of fault is down these by far the worst of the three and that feeling is a big deal for these games right like that's it's not something that can be overlooked and i and we've even talked about it with bearded uh in the past that the feeling of the of fault is not where fault shines but the feeling of fault is where people care a lot about and that's with like where a lot of uh differing opinions come in i think i want to say real quick too that i don't fault i don't rank fault last because i think it's bad i think that's great i think it's a really really good game i just think that their past has cotton up with them like they made so many mistakes in the past that they are not going to be able to overcome it i think they're just too slow that's what i think is why they're not going to overcome it i think i mean that's part that's part of it yeah it's part of it i just but they're not taking advantage of the advantage they have right and i and it's we're at the point where you're almost too late like if you can't start now you're running out of time very very rapidly to take that advantage and they cultivated this community very early of get good or get out and that is carried on with them to to now and that that has really hurt them ah jury can kick one oh one he had a good i thought it was a good question but he retracted it so now i don't and i don't remember exactly what it was so uh maybe he wants to reword it but uh expito again uh you guys talked a while ago about new players struggling to play these kind of mobas what do you think the devs could do to smooth the learning curve let's do this one uh pretty rapid fire because we have talked about this quite a bit before do you want to go first i think having having a really solid tutorial or onboarding system is the biggest thing and i think uh league of legends does a great job if you guys have not played if you've been playing league of legends for a long time and have not played through the new tutorial that they have it is a hundred times better than the old one was and the old one wasn't even that bad honestly like but they're the way they onboard their players they explain each mechanic quickly and succinctly but enough that you get the concept and then okay i've grasped this concept now add an additional thing in now add one additional thing in and i think these games need to do that uh overprime has done that to an extent with their tutorial and they're improving that even further which i can't wait to see what the new one is like but i think that's the biggest thing is introducing concepts individually and then bring them all together have the character the person the player play a game with all of those concepts together be like okay i remember stay behind your minions well you guys froze we did um i remember stay behind your minions i remember stay out of tower range i remember use my abilities i remember whatever right i think that's a great way to do this and basically all but overprime haven't done anything toward that end yet oh man covetous lemon mentioned phoenix rising that let me know that covetous lemon is a real g an old school uh i i think uh jelly answered that one pretty good i don't really have a whole lot to add on to it and again we have covered this in past videos um but yeah just almost anything better than what most of these games currently have is a step in the right direction it's it's a very hard genre to learn and they need to do everything they can to get anyone who downloads the game to try and keep it in keep them in the game for as long as possible um so that's that should be a major focus for all of them uh jerry can kick i think is this name i don't know uh do you find playing those games easier with keyboard and mouse or joystick uh so what are your guys's initial takes on that keyboard and mouse joystick i only play like bloodstained and like 2d side scrollers with my controller like yeah i'm a hardcore keyboard and mouse guy so i have nothing against console i just don't have a goal i just don't have one yeah i maybe i'm the the the break in the mold here i play paragon on playstation exclusively i never played it on pc um sense playing like fault in some of those i do find myself sometimes missing the ease of mobility using the joystick it does it like being able to side strafe a little bit cleaner you know doing circles and stuff like that but hitting skill shots and some of the more complex abilities that now these kits have i think lend themselves a little bit better to keyboard and mouse um not impossible to accomplish on on a controller but it just seems like if you want to take the game serious you're probably going to have a better experience doing so on mouse and keyboard i did go from console smite to mouse and keyboard smite oh my god that was hard dude i fucked that up i did the same thing with uh overwatch going from overwatch console first to trying to play it on pc and so the learning curve for those transitions is super hard i think it's tough at least my my thoughts on this i think the skill floor is lower on mouse and keyboard but the skill ceiling is very very similar for both of sure that it's it's a lot more at least for me intuitive mouse and keyboard wise especially in 3d mobus where you actually have that verticality to take into account but the skill ceiling can be the same because i've seen console players just drop circles around mouse and keyboard players so it's not just a definitive advantage me okay uh man mitch mitch hike mitch hike just talking about some shit that i really want to get into and open up all like a whole another fucking rabbit hole to jump down but this is starting to be like the longest fucking episode before the main is we've ever done so i think we need to about wrap it up so i think we're going to do that now um as always guys if you want to watch uh if you want to tune into the jelly knees i'll have his youtube and twitch linked in the video description below if you watch this on the video and uh if you want to check out the viking jennies twitter which i did adjust it on my cheat sheet oh yeah um yeah follow me on twitter you can check that out also linked in the video description below if you're watching this as a video once this goes down i'm going to unlist it so that i can take this footage and make like the actual for the minions video so if you guys want to go back and watch that you can but uh yeah i think that's going to be about wrapping up this week i jelly knees and uh the viking jennie do you guys have anything final you want to say i think this was a good episode it's good to see everybody in chat live make sure you guys go leave a comment and like the video tomorrow when it comes out even though you were here to watch it live because engagements important even though i'm a marking marketing something or other um engagements important i got to see you guys maybe we'll do this again if mangus can get his computer figured out 90% of the time we'll try and get it going and then we'll go from there uh i'm same i one i just love being able to see like the questions coming through and the reactions to what we were talking about just makes it for more like engaging uh conversation um but uh yeah so again if you guys really like this type make sure you let us know and and keep engaging with it i know it sounds lame but it's how we know that it works it's really it yeah but it was fun and i got to be here live with my buddy oh we we had guys you we had like this whole thing before we decided to do it live like where i was going to try and like come in and be like what are you guys talking about or something i don't know uh and try and make it a whole production but instead because live and we had all the things we're just like yeah is that what we really like yeah so go get yourself a place well so at least for me before he before he you turned on the video well i wasn't sure where i was gonna be and it's always like inching into his because he's got his camera right up here and so i was like i don't know where the how far out the view is because i'm normally looking from it like a viewer looks at it you know so i was like i need to be like right here he's been stealing he's been stealing my armrest he's like oh you can have this armrest he's been pushing you said i'm gonna take this armrest yeah but you agreed that i could have and i warned you that this is going to be an airplane fight the whole time so we love who's taller who's taller biking or jet or jelly knees i think jelly's technically taller he's like a like by uh like maybe half an inch or so i don't know right around i think i've been shrinking to be honest i don't know you're both taller than me yeah we're both big well yeah man just mangas is a short guy so i'm scrappy i'm scrappy yeah no fucking short i'm just average you guys are just fucking no you're short you're short guys i notice you fucking 511 all right uh that is going to wrap it up for this week guys appreciate you coming out if you're watching this live i appreciate you watching the video if you're watching the video but for now this is the for the minions crew signing off you guys have a good one man go special shout out to channel members i bloodhunter jelly knees meow mix for men stunt raven and blastoise king