 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump, with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Hey guys, guess what? What's that, Sal? In this episode of Mind Pump. Ooh. For the first 48 minutes, we do our introductory conversation. We talk about our trip to Los Angeles and sex toys. We all brought home. So exciting. And used on each other. I mean, our ladies. We talk about soccer versus other sports. Adam thinks other sports win. American football at some point will overcome soccer as the world's most popular sport. I believe so. I think he's crazy. We're going to convince the world. Make sure you DM him, let him know what you think. Then we talk about the Nutropics study. There's a study that shows that Nutropics combined with caffeine suck. Actually don't work as good as regular caffeine. And I talk about four-sigmatic and how I combine certain things with caffeine. One of my favorite combination is chaga or raishi with caffeine. I think it works phenomenally. Now, four-sigmatic is one of our sponsors. If you go to foursigmatic.com, that's F-O-U-R-S-I-G-M-A-T-I-C .com, forward slash mind pump, end of the code mind pump, you'll get a discount. Come drink out of my shrooms. We also talked about our new six week transformation challenge. What? The shit talking. The gloves are off. My testosterone just bumps up a tiny bit, and these guys are already calling it out. The gloves are off. Bring it. This is the all-natural competition between Adam, Justin, myself, Doug, Taylor, Enzo, everybody on the mind pump crew is going to be competing to see who can make the biggest transformation in six weeks. Who do you think is going to win? Then we also talked about Brew Doctor's new mint lemonade. It's delicious. You can find Brew Doctor at any of the following stores, Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, New Seasons, Kroger Sprouts, and most Costco's. Remember, it's a probiotic beverage. It's non-GMO, and it's organic 100% raw. Then we get into the questions. The first question was, do we think it's more common for people to do too little or too much when it comes to exercise? In other words, do we over-train or under-train more often? Good discussion, that part of this episode. The answer we were talking to. Next question was a little personal. This particular, this young lady wants to know where she can meet men like us. Apparently, we're really cool. I almost feel like we made this question up, right? Yeah. Where do you find men who are like us, open, honest, interested in both self-development and growth of meaningful relationships? We give our non-professional advice in that part of this episode. Next question was, is it possible to stretch too often? What are the consequences of doing too much stretching on the body? And finally, the last question. This person is trying to have a baby with her boyfriend. He was on anabolic steroids. He just recently went off and now he's going through withdrawal. He's depressed, tired, having headaches. Sounds like a familiar story. It's a difficult thing to go through. Adam just now is emerging out of the depths of darkness. He's like the phoenix. So right away, they want to pick a fight with me already. Yeah, so we give, he gives advice on what he thinks. Such dicks. She can do to support her boyfriend who's going through this. And one of the things that Adam did and had success with is he used the Juve Light. There are studies that show if you expose yourself to Juve Light therapy, you will raise your testosterone. We have a hookup for you, by the way. If you go to juve.com, j-o-o-v-v.com, forward slash mind pump. You can get your own Juve Light for your house at a discount. Also, do not forget this month, Maps Anabolic, the program that started it all. Have-off. It's gonna be half-off. It's 50% off. Under $60, you get the full program, by the way. The whole thing, the videos, the blueprints, everything. That's insane, Sal. It's crazy. We've lost our minds. It's 50% off. You can find it at mindpumpmedia.com. You can also find our bundles. These are where we combine multiple maps programs for particular goals. For example, we have a sexy athlete bundle. This is for people who like to move like an athlete, but also have aesthetic goals and wanna sculpt their body at the same time. We have a bundle for people who really wanna focus on building their butt. We also have a bundle for people who are super serious and want it all planned out for them. It's called the Super Bundle. It's a year of exercise programming. You can find all those bundles and the 50% off maps in Abolic at mindpumpmedia.com. Hey, did you end up smoking weed last night? What, we gotta wait till we start recording. Oh, you wanna put that on there? Okay. Oh, you don't wanna put it on there? Yeah, I did. Did you? Yeah. Cause I had a, she had a fresh joint roll for me. I got sex toys. I mean, come on. I know. I mean, come on. You gotta do it. I just felt like that was just... Are we hot, Doug? It would be an asshole move to do it and not, you know? You know, dude. It's like that's disrespectful of freshly rolled joint waiting for me when I get home to see wifey and to not put it down and then give her her sex toys and to think that I'm not gonna smoke that weed. Bro, listen. And try some new toys out. I think we may have a problem. I think we may have a problem. You know what I mean? I think you and I may have an issue. That's the first step to rehab though. Is what? Admitting we have a problem. Step one. Step one. We're moving in here. We're moving in the right direction. I went four days. I went four days without any, which I've done before, but for some reason this was harder because I think I told myself I'd go for 30. So four days in, I'm like, ah. And then, you know, we get back from the trip and I don't know what it is about traveling. We didn't even do that much. It's just exhausting. What is it about travel? Or do you guys feel the same way? I think it has something to do with the plane, sleeping somewhere else beside your own bed. You guys feel like that too when you get back? Just tired? Yeah, just mentally tired, for sure. We sound like a bunch of. I know. A bunch of fucking. Well, you know, I was talking with Emily afterwards and I was telling her how exhausted I was and she's just like, well, talking about sex for four hours is more exhausting than having it for four hours, she said. Jesus. You might be right there. So speaking of which, so we were on, we did an interview with Emily from the Dr. Emily Morse from the Sex with Emily show and so we get there and she's like, hey, do you want to see my sex toy closet? And so we're all like, yeah. Does a fair shit in the woods. Fuck yeah. So she opens the door and it's a room of sex toys. Literally, I thought like, okay, she's, you know, she's just exaggerating. No, it's a massive closet. It's like wall to wall. Full of the best sex toys of all time. And then this is how hospitable she is or how gracious she is. She's like, you guys can take a couple if you want. Yeah. So we didn't flinch at that opportunity. No, so I want to hear you guys' experiences. Did everybody go home and use them? Every point of view, man. There was plans to use it, but we both passed out. Oh no. See, this is why I'm scared of married life with kids. You didn't use it? I didn't, dude. No, I fell asleep, dude. Like she fell asleep, then I fell asleep. Which is a legitimate, that's a legitimate excuse. Sucks. Legitimate excuse. We had like seriously had plans like my parents even had my kids at night. I showed it to her and she was like, yeah, like we were both excited. And yeah, I was just like, we went to dinner, everything was cool, came back, and then fell asleep. Which one did you get? Which one was yours? So I had the vibrating cock ring one and then I also had like the other one that I don't know what you call it. I think it's, I ordered it. It basically, remotely, I can adjust like the vibrating different waves. And so like she could basically put it in and then put it on top. And wear it and like walk around. Yeah. It's like a U-shape. It's a big U-shape. So it's like a little bean goes inside her and then she has like a little thin like string that's touching her clit, right? So I, after I saw that you grabbed that. Yeah. I ordered it. It's already ordered, I literally ordered it online. I'm like this, I wish I would have grabbed that one. Hold on. So I have the app, I have like an app for it. And then I hooked it up, I mean the thing is we kind of like messed around with it. Like as I just showed it, I was talking to her and she was like, like, whoa. Cause like you could add all these different like variables in it and I can like, you know increase the intensity, decrease it, you know add like crazy different waves. And so yeah, I was like, this is gonna be great. Wow. Well, what's cool about the one he got and this is why I ordered it is cause we travel a lot. And I'm really excited. I'm really excited to be able to give my girl orgasms across the country. Remotely. Yeah, remote orgasms. Because it can go anywhere in the world. It comes with the app, like Justin's saying. And then you have, it has, within the app it has the FaceTime. We're doing such a great job selling this product. I'm reaching out to this company, by the way. I hope so, because. No, we are already on it. I know we're already selling for them before but I'm telling you this thing is cool because you could do a video time like FaceTime but it's through the app and at the same time control. Basically sexting. Yes. But like for real. Yes. Wow. We're like, we're only like four steps away from being able to transport your penis somewhere. You know what I mean? Like Star Trek. Oh, 3D printer, you know. Well, so, because Adam was telling Katrina, he's like, I got you a surprise. She's like, what is it? He's like, I can't tell you. She's like, well, what is it? And he's like, it'll help you run faster. So did she think it was like shoes or something? You know, it's funny. She actually guessed it. She did, dude. And I was like, she's so loud. Like, I mean, how would you guess that? We were at sex with Emily. She did. So which one did you get then? I thought you got the same one Justin had. No, I got two. I bought that one. So that one is on its way. I don't actually have that one yet. I took the, I forgot the name of, what was the pivot, the one that you got? You know, I got the pivot, which is a cock ring. Have you guys tried it? I tried everything last night. So hold on. So cock ring, you just put on your dick, obviously, and then you just turn on it vibrates? Yeah. Okay. But you get how, where it vibrates, right? So on top of the cock ring sets a piece that when- That goes on the girl when you're having sex with. Right. Right. Yeah. When it's inserted, it's vibrating her clit while you do that, right? So, I mean, we did all kinds of cool stuff though. We turned around backwards and did some reverse cowgirl and did some cool stuff like that. So you got that? And I can control it. So what I had to do is I had her, she's going to hate me for getting it done. I know. I've got her backwards, right? And I've got my phone out, right? She's like, are you on Instagram right now? Like manipulating it. No, I'm not. I'm tight for a second, lady. You know, so I could speed it up while she's sitting on the, ooh, and then slow it down, stop it for a second. So I had a blast with it last night. You had good sex then? Yeah, it was great, man. So the one that I had is called the womanizer, which is an unfortunate name. It's like not a very good name. But what it is, is it's this, so it's this device. It's kind of, I don't know how to explain it. It looks like lipstick almost, the color of it. But the top of it is this silicone like tube and it vibrates, but it vibrates with pulses of suction. And what a woman does is she places it on her clitoris and it creates a seal because it's silicone and then it vibrates with suction at the same time. And I bought this one, or I got this one because, you know, I know my girl, right? I know my girl and we've messed with all kinds of sex toys and this one we have never tried before. So I'm like, this will be interesting. On the way home, I go online and I'm reading the reviews and women are like, oh, five orgasms in a minute. And, you know, I didn't want to stop using it. So I'm like, I was really excited to use this thing. Yeah, that beats all my records. So I get home, fucking hell. I thought you had 10, bro. Yeah, well, not in a minute. Oh. Another five. Another minute and a half. That takes 90 seconds. 10 takes some work, bro. I mean, come on. I ain't that badass. So I get this one, so I get home, my girl comes home and lost her mind. That's all I'm gonna say. I'm not gonna go into too much detail, but I will say the mind was lost. It was worth it. In other words, you're investing in the company. New things have been achieved. We've unlocked the next level. Oh, wow. That's all I'm gonna say. Oh, wow, that's good. Yeah, so it's a... We'll have to look into that. Oh, no, no, no, for... Bro, I'm telling you guys right now, I've tried all kinds of sex toys. Believe me. I've probably invested... No, we believe you. That's the thing. I've invested tens of thousands of dollars. You don't have to close us on that. This one is a... Hey, can we not sell so hard until we at least get sponsors and pay for this stuff? Or what, Jesus, I don't know. Well, you didn't say the name, right? I didn't know it. It was called a womanizer. Oh, you did? Yeah, yeah. Shit, yeah, no, it's great. Good trip, though. Yeah, it was good. I had a good time with Max. Because I did, I was on his podcast. I love that guy, dude. Oh, yeah. He's a great dude. What'd you guys talk about? Well, we talked about... So his podcast is all about health and wellness, and so he's a really smart guy. And I talked a lot about, you know, resistance training and exercise and how you can use it to combat the... Boring stuff. The ills or the ills of modern life. I have good chemistry with Max. Him and I could go for an hour flew by in like 10 minutes. But it's funny, because I showed up early. So I showed up at his place early. You guys gaze a lot. You're into your eyes. Yeah, yeah. Lots of gazing. Yeah, he's handsome. I got there early because it's literally impossible to judge distance in LA. There's no way. There's no way you could do it. Like you could look at, oh, it's only two miles away. Could be an hour. Could be 10 minutes, who knows. So I show up early, which is embarrassing. I hate showing up early, so I let him know. So he opens the door. He's like, I just woke up and I get in there and we're just hanging out. And he sets up his little gear or whatever and we do our podcast. But you could tell he was just totally comfortable and chill, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Well, we all agreed that if something happens to you, that that's who we're gonna use to replace you. We originally said that, you know, Mike Matthews was who we were gonna replace you with. My other man, Crush. Right, but he's... If I ever had a Gay Three Summit be with those two guys for sure. Right. Yeah, I could see that. Yeah, nobody tell him that. I could see that. You've said it on there. Makes me feel a little bit jealous. You know, he's... I said it by... Yeah. I know. Like we're right here. Chop, livery. Let me correct myself. If I ever had another one. Okay. The one that we did, I don't count. Okay. We were two. I've already remembered. But Mike's all the way in Florida so it's not very realistic that if you died that we could replace you with Mike. So... Yeah, he's too far. I don't like remote stuff. Yeah. But Max is hop, skip and jump away. We can easily have him come on. We already talked about who was yours again, Bradley Martin. No, no, no. Come on, bro. I think we're gonna step our game. Come on. I want Adam Karola. No disrespect to Bradley. Adam will replace him. I like Brad. I like Brad. He's a good kid, man, but... Come on. Don't be jealous. Dude, Mike and Max are fucking stellar dudes. They are. Steller dudes. Well, I mean, it's hard to replace me. You know what I mean? Yeah, it should be hard to replace me, too. You used to throw it at Bradley Martin. Just gonna throw it at Bradley Martin in the mix. Fuck you, bro. You got so bad. That's disrespectful. It's like replacing me with Jewish wool. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Fuck off, bro. Come on. Yeah, bro. Yeah. Here's the bottom line. Irreplaceable, OK? That's all I'm gonna say. You're both irreplaceable. I never want to replace you guys. That's a cop-out. I never want to replace you guys. Well, replace yourself. Who would replace you? The people that we've met. Honestly, I haven't put a lot of thought into how I replace myself. I've thought about how I'd have to replace you two more. I haven't thought about how I'd replace myself. I don't know who I would get for Justin. Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. You know, the closest thing I think, and I think it's a compliment, I don't think it's a disrespectful thing, is Matt Vincent. I think Matt Vincent has a little bit of your flavor. You guys have a similar look. You guys kind of train similar. I don't like talking about this. It's like sad. It's like a sad conversation. Well, we're not doing it. Smart business just to get out on some level. I could, too, but it makes me sad. It's not the same. No, not at all. I'd cry. You know what I'm saying? Are you guys watching the World Cup? What? Crickets? You guys don't like football? 50% of the world's watching it, apparently. Is soccer still considered a sport? It's the sport. It's the sport. Oh, it's the sport. Is that true? If you were to judge a sport by popularity, how many people watch it, how many people do it, how many countries are in it? Worldwide, it's the most popular. I will say, though, that will end. Kids can do it. That will change, by the way. It will end? Yeah, it will not be the number one sport in the world. NFL is making its way all over the place. So is the NBA. You think tackle football is going to be a lot harder? Are you ready for some soccer? Test soccer? Test football? Those go some tad games. Actually, we could probably look this up if we were to look at the growth of those sports. For sure, football and basketball, I guarantee, NBA and NFL is a lot. Here's why I'm going to make the case. Here's why I'm going to make the case. Here's why I'll all. Soccer's just been around? No, I will debate it. Here's why I'll debate it. You can debate sports. I will debate this all day and I will win this debate and I'll tell you why. To play football, to play tackle football, you require requires more money and more equipment. To play soccer, one of the reasons why soccer is so popular, all you need is a ball. NBA. You need a hoop and a ball. Basketball is closer. Basketball is closer. I will definitely say that. I say if anything is going to replace soccer, it would be basketball. That's a terrible argument. Your argument, it's a terrible argument that you think because all you do is. Bro, you can see some African villagers who play soccer all the time, all of a sudden they're going to play tackle football it's just not going to happen. Bro, you're not seeing air up there? Huh? You see? Yeah. You can't have these arguments, dude. You don't know enough about sports to have this argument, dude. I'm telling you right now. Oh my God, it's not even close. Go back. It's not close right now. Soccer dominates right now. There's no doubt. No, no, no, go back. It's not even close. Where were you? Soccer, okay. Estimated fans, three and a half billion. Second is cricket. Third is field hockey. Fourth is tennis. Fifth is volleyball. Where the fuck's football? I'm interested in all of these. All European-based sports. All European-based sports. Basketball. It's because America, we've been behind forever, dude. But give us some time here. Basketball and football. Yeah, we're the new kids on the block. Wait a minute, wait a minute. This is hilarious. American football has 400 million fans. Soccer is 3.5 billion. There's a big fucking difference, dude. Yeah. It's not even close. Right now it's not. Look at the growth, though. You're looking at where it's at currently right now. Why don't we look at the growth? Look at the growth of the last 10 years. Sports growth over the last 10 years. I don't think it'll, that God, that would be the most insane switch or reversal of, I mean, that's just such a big difference. I didn't know it was that big. It's not even the top 10. Dude, the NFL just started getting over into Europe and playing games in the season. Like in every season, they've added more games that go over there. It's just barely- Here's the other reason why I think football- It's only scratching the surface. Here's the other reason why I think football won't be the, I'll argue basketball. I can see basketball. The other reason why I think football won't do it, first of all, again, the gear, it's expensive. It's an expensive sport to play. It's an expensive sport to fund. The other thing too is- It's such a weird argument. It's not. It's not at all. It's, what do you mean? Wow. That prevents it- Yeah, that was high up there. Right. That's why it's a terrible argument. No, I think it's- Expensive sports is not what makes it popular. I think it's, well no, it's not, but I think it's a factor. The other thing too is football, we're just now starting to learn of the fucking brain damage that that shit causes. I don't see that shit exploding at all. I see it. Now why I disagree with that is because that's what people want to see, bro. It's dangerous. It's scary. It's dangerous. The stakes are higher. What? Exactly. It's more interesting. Well, I know I get that, but what you're starting to see already is you're already starting to see schools not allow tackle football, and you're already starting to see, you know, cities ban tackle football for Pee Wee leagues because of those dangers. And that feeds into football. Once you eliminate the kid aspect of it, like, good luck. Once they start banning, you know how much, like, people want it even more. Like, I can see it going on the opposite end of that, where people actually start to play more, like, you know, and they'll seek out leagues that are still, like, allowing it. Is rugby more popular than American football? It could be. It's definitely more an international sport. International, yeah, but I don't know if it's more. I don't know if it's more popular, though. Well, Phil Hockey was up there. He had all of them up there, and for sure basketball and football were not, I mean, I would definitely not, I wasn't arguing with you if it's more popular right now. I have 100% no shot. No, I know. I've known soccer forever. Yeah, it's like, so where do you got it? So hold on a second. When we go down to football, dawg, does it show Asia as being one of the countries? Okay, that's good, because the Asian market is so fucking massive, and that's why cricket is so high. Look at basketball right now. Yeah. Australia is on board. 400 million with America. That's it. That's it, dude. That's gotta be wrong. Wait, wait, look at soccer. Europe, Africa, Asia, America, wait until they're in every country, everyone's- You know what, though? That's gotta be wrong, because I know basketball is super popular in Europe. It's exploded. We're probably looking at old stats, though. Where are you pulling up here? Yeah, that can't be right, dude. Who's the Google guy over there? Regional popularity. That's gotta be, I don't know, that doesn't seem right. I know basketball is a pretty popular sport in the Olympics now, even. Yeah. You know, we used to dominate basketball in the Olympics. That was 2017. Yeah, so it's pretty close. How dominant are we in basketball in the Olympics, though? We still are. Not like we used to be there, huh? No, we still are. We're still- Yeah, we're still fucking- Even like when we used to have the Dream Team, where we just killed like 100 points? The Dream Team was special in everything, but we still dominate. I mean, if we lose, it's like a big fucking deal. Yeah, it's a big fucking deal. It's more of a big deal if we lose than we win. We're expected to win. It's like Canada, Russia, and hockey, you know, like they're expected. Yeah, right, right. I don't know, man. But anyway, the World Cup's exciting. England is doing pretty well. That'd be the one team that I wanted to play for. I mean, I'm knocking soccer. I played soccer for seven years, right? You didn't just say you were good at it? Yeah, I was. I was better at soccer than I was at basketball. What's that right there? Number one, what's that say, Doug? That says football, but soccer, football. But actually, number two is basketball according to this. That's what I thought. That's what I thought. The statistics, yeah. It depends on where you're pulling it from. Yeah, because I know basketball has become a really worldwide sport. And it's getting crazier right now. American football, their cricket is up there, see? I don't know. Where else do they play American tackle football where they actually have professional leagues or Canada? Canada does, right? Where else? I know Samoa and Tonga. Yeah, but rugby just dominates over there. Sure. But they're getting way more, because they're like. There you go. Formule 18. There goes your theory on how. Formule one is number seven. And it's probably one of the most expensive games you're supposed to get into. Well, you know what I mean, right? Well, you know what I mean, right? Well, you know what I mean, right? So this may be. This may be. This may start drag racing. This may be judging it based off of fans. I'm thinking in my mind the amount of people playing it. And formula one, how many people can, you know, nobody can really do that. But there's a lot of fans that watch it. Not a whole lot of access there. Yeah, you know. That's why I think, so this is OK. Criterion used. This particular article looks at global basin audience, TV viewership, number of professional leagues around the world, TV rights deals, endorsements, sponsorships, average athlete salary. So these guys are putting a lot of gender equality. What the fuck does that have to do with anything? Yeah. Well, that's what it means that there's a sport for everybody. Like rugby doesn't have female, female. There's not female rugby, right? I think there is. Well, there's not female, there's not female. There's not female tackle football. So that's why they lose points for that. So you're going to get something. You're going to get like basketball is both, right? Yeah, I get it. Soccer is both. Soccer golf has both. For me, the reason why soccer is exciting to watch. I don't like, I don't watch the professional league. Simple. No. God, man. It's a good thing I'm on this podcast. You know, we have a lot of listeners in the UK who are listening to that. Pass me the ball. Thanks. They're calling you a cunt. I played the sport. I got respect for the sport. I get, I really understand. Oh, there's a lot of skill. How the games play. I don't know how you watch it without really understanding how the games play. Did you talk about strategy wise? I definitely understand rules of the major sports. I can watch and understand what's going on. Just because I didn't play them a lot, but I understand them. But the thing about soccer that I enjoy, I don't watch like the Italian league or the Premier League or I don't watch the professional leagues. But when the World Cup happens, I'll put it like this. It's exciting. I'll put it like this. Soccer is like checkers and football is like chess. I mean, bottom line. Like chess and checkers? Yep. Maybe. The strategy is very simple. Maybe. Well, someone would debate you on that. Yeah, you can debate that. I've been debating on that quite a bit. Well, where I would debate you on that, that's the same thing like people that don't really... And I really understand soccer on a much deeper level than the average person who probably watches it because it's very similar to hockey. Like there's a lot of stuff going on. I played until through high school. There's a lot of stuff that you don't know just by watching. Well, you know, when you get to the professional level, like there's so much more strategy with matchups and rotation of the players coming on and off the field. And so there's where the ball is being kept on the field at that time. Like, so there's a lot more strategy happening than... But it all goes based off the flow of the game. It's not a stop. And then now I have to like implement a whole new strategy and like game plan right now. I wouldn't argue with you that it's more technical or it's... I mean, the skill is very high. Like you have to have a very high skill to play soccer. But one of the most strategic games out there. Yeah, 100%. Football, I'm saying. Football, you can clearly... People underestimate it. Well, all sports, you see, you know, specialized athletes within the sports. Like, you know, a forward tends to look different from a defender. And they tend to look different from the goalie and all that stuff. But it's not quite as dramatic as football, American football. Just look at a great way to judge something like that is what sports the most coaching is involved, right? No sport is more involved with coaches than football is. Look at the amount of coaches that are played on a team. Look at how there's a special team. There's a play being called with multiple coaches being involved. Every single play that the ball snapped, right? That's a big fucking deal when you think about that. Soccer, it's like, what is it? The coach, OK, this is the plan. This is a strategy boom. You go out there and then like what you call a timeout, maybe 10 minutes in, 15 minutes in. You have game plans. I'm not taking that away. I'm just saying it's less complex. Wait, wait. Yeah, the chess analogy is a good analogy because with football, you put a play in place. You go out and you go run that play. The other team already is countering that right away. And you might have to recount it. So it's constantly this. Football reminds me of a war quite a bit where you have like your navy, you have your tanks, you have your cavalry, your marines, whatever. It's just it's similar to war in that sense. You have positions that like a tackle looks nothing like a cornerback or they just look nothing alike. It's a very interesting sport. But the problem with American football is I think ease of access to playing it is difficult. And there's being, there's a lot of pushback recently with the damage it causes. The only reason why it's where it's at when we can even have this argument in this comparison is they just haven't been around the same amount of time and they're not in the same amount of countries. Like football is adopted. How long has soccer been a professional sport? Yeah, that'd be interesting to find out. I know it's longer, but I'd be interested to see. Yeah, it's like I mean, wait till we have that many hundreds of years of playing the sport football. Football has not even been around that long, dude. Well, here's the thing. So we never adopted cricket either. It's that's something that hasn't made its way over here. So I don't know. That's huge in Asia though. It's huge. Yeah, huge in like India and in those countries. Yeah, in England. Let me see. 2000 years. Well, the history of- Oh my God. You can also, hold on a second. American football also can trace its roots back to, I forgot it was this old English sport that they modified and turned into American football. So I don't know if that's necessary. I'm talking about like how old, like let me see here. Soccer match 1863? I don't know. Anyway. I mean, if it, okay, even if you went by 1863 and we went that route, I mean, it's so much older than football is. When was pro, like when were the, it was college, right? When football was really, American football was formed, was in college, if I'm not mistaken. Oh, I don't know the first, I don't know even the first year and the where, if it formed at the collegiate level first. Was it Iron Man back then, where you played both sides when it first started? Oh yeah. I believe so, yeah. Yeah, leather helmets. Yep. Not a lot of people played. So it's like you had to play like multiple positions. And yeah, it was, it was nuts back then. Well, it was all a ground game too. It wasn't like any, nobody was throwing the ball. It was all just like a big scrum. It looked a lot like rugby, but it was more, you know, down by down. Hmm. Interesting. What's that? Founded 1920. The NFL was founded in 1920. Okay. I would like to see when the first professional soccer league was founded. Look at the NBA, 1946. If there's anything that's on a hot growth pattern. Oh, huge. And it's the number two sport. Huge. So it'll pass. Baseball is old. Look at that, 1869 for baseball. That's why they called it America's Pastime, American Pastime. Dude, I gotta tell you guys about this article I read on Neutropics. I think you guys are gonna think it's hilarious. Oh yeah. Oh, oh, you were talking about this. Dude, this is so funny to me. So they did a randomized double blind placebo controlled study. So this is like gold standard, right? Where they compared, you know, they had took two groups of people. One group did 100 milligrams of caffeine. That's it. Which is like a strong shot of espresso, essentially. One shot. That's it. One strong shot of espresso. The other group did 100 milligrams of caffeine, same thing, plus theanine, vinpiscitine, tyrosine, vitamin B12 and vitamin B6. So they threw in all these other quote, unquote, Neutropics. Neutropics. And the study came back and found that the caffeine only group outperformed the Neutropic group on verbal memory. Isn't that interesting. Yeah. Yeah, they did better with, let's say they improved working memory better and reaction times better. Do you know what the other group did better? Subjective alertness. Subjective alertness. Like when they asked him, like, how do you feel like? I feel better. Oh really? Do the test. Nope, looks like you're not as good. You're not performing better, though. How fucking- I'm glad you feel that way. Dude, how funny is that? I'm glad something like this has come out because we've talked a little bit about this rush of brain droves. Oh my God, especially here in the Silicon Valley, it's like gold dust here. Like everybody wants Neutropics. Well, with supplement companies do- That one, okay. That one and then also the CBD thing is annoying. Oh my God. There's gonna be a backlash. Bro, I was just- I've been lifting at golds lately, right? And it's so funny to- Cause I have like, you know, I still, just like when I was in high school and a kid, I've got these different pockets of friends that I know and I hang out with and I see. And I've got my bodybuilding group of friends, which are nothing like my marijuana friends and connections and relationships, right? So to hear it to be around like my bodybuilding group of friends and see them in the gym and hear them like, bro, I've been using that CBD for recovery and stuff. And I'm like, oh God, rub it all over my body. Like really, bro? You're on like fucking a gram of fucking drugs and you're pure fucking lifting seven days a week, twice a day and all this other shit you're doing. And you use CBD. You think the CBD is really helping you out with all that shit, bro? You know, come on. Here's why I hate that. This is what makes me mad about that. There's real medicinal benefit. Right. That's why I wanna make that clear, right? I'm knocking on that, but I'm not saying that. I mean, we talk positive. Just like there's real benefits from keto. And there's real, there's real, there's real new tropic benefits too. There can be. It's the craze that drives me now. Well, what pisses me off is that it's, they're creating this bubble where it's gonna pop and then the people who are gonna get hurt, the ones that actually really need it. Like, here's the deal. CBD has been shown for reels in studies to be an effective treatment for certain forms of like seizures or epilepsy that had no other treatments available. It's got some real benefits for people with autoimmune issues. It has some real systemic anti-inflammatory benefits. But the other thing a lot of people need to realize is the entourage effect from all the cannabinoids found in marijuana is where you're gonna get most of the benefit. When you isolate one cannabinoid, you get far less of the potential benefits by doing it that way. And then the other thing is because it's weed, you know, cause CBD comes from weed, supplement companies. And by the way, we called this three years ago. We even talked about this. I said, watch, everything's being fucking, they're gonna throw CBD in protein. They're gonna throw CBD in pre-workouts. Everything's gonna have CBD because it's from weed and everybody's excited and it promises to do everything when, you know, in reality, it's not, it's not gonna do everything for you and it's, there's gonna be another bubble that's gonna pop just like the neutral. This is what the supplement company does that I really hate is that they take, they take a bunch of things and they just combine them and throw them together. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's just this big cocktail of every, oh, if this works, I'm just gonna put it in with all this other shit and then, you know, like we're not like getting the concentrated amount that's right. Anyway, it's just like a combination of like all this shit. Not only that, but the human system is so complex and the way things interact and- Bottom line is this, if it was that, I mean, CBD's been around for a very long time. If it was that revolutionary, then all the fucking pot smokers would be jacked and shredded. Like if it was that like groundbreaking, like holy shit, this is a game changer. It would be because we see all these potheds walking around looking amazing and be like, what is going on? You know, what are they doing? You know what though, just on that note, every population study or every large scale, you know, study where people will, and the problem with these studies is that they're, you know, people have to actually comment and talk about what they're doing. So they're not being observed super closely, but nonetheless, people who use cannabis regularly have better fasting glucose and smaller waistlines or less body fat on their bodies. And they think it has to do with the way the liver interacts with, you know, sugar and insulin, how it processes those things. And so, and even some pharmaceutical companies are researching some of these cannabinoids in the use for treatment of diabetes. But again, you know, here's the thing that makes me upset is that we take all these things that may do something and then we throw them all together and say, well, if one thing is good, everything is even better. Here's a great example. I'll give you guys a fantastic example. Creatine is easily the most studied and the most backed by science ergogenic supplement that there is. Nothing comes close. There's nothing that comes close to creatine in terms of studies that demonstrate it actually works and does something. Nothing is even in the same universe. There's literally thousands and thousands of studies on creatine showing that it'll help you build muscle, increases strength, accelerates protein or amplifies protein synthesis and recoveries, got antioxidant benefits and all these other things. So, creatine just works bottom line. Of course, supplement companies look at this and they say, cool, how can we capitalize on this, you know, this creatine craze that started in the 90s? And what they did is they tried to come out with different versions of creatine saying that their version was better, right? Throw some BCAs in there. Well, so one of the timing, one of the only, what's the word? Complaints that creatine users have ever had and it's not common, but it does happen, is that people will say, oh, it causes stomach distress or a little bloating in my stomach or whatever. Or some people, especially women will say, I gained some weight while on, which you're supposed to, that's gonna happen. But they'll be like, I'm gaining some weight. So supplement companies are like, oh, it's the bloat effect, which is not really the case, from creatine. So try our different version of creatine. We've created this buffered version of creatine called Cray alkaline and it's buffered, therefore it's not gonna cause bloat, it's better on the body and you're gonna blah, blah, blah, blah. With no studies or anything to support it, just they're just throwing it out there. There's studies now that you can look up where they compare good old fashioned, plain, creatine monohydrate, the original, with all the other forms of creatine, including Cray alkaline, the buffered one that they say is supposed to be better. What do you think the studies show? It's quite dead even. No, Cray team monohydrate is better. Oh wow, it's even better. It gets more of it is assimilated in the body, you get better results, stronger. Oh, and here's the best part. Yeah, and here's the best part, it's like half as much in terms of cost, it's way less expensive. So that just goes to show you like. Well, that's how I feel about even like, even your most basic like whey protein. Like if you're using protein powder, because you're not getting a sufficient amount of protein in your day, then I totally, I think that's good, that's a good idea. But then you go out and you get these protein powders and they infuse it with all this other shit that's overloaded with all these vitamins and let's add this to it and let's add that to it. And now we're seeing the hemp going in there, or the CBD, yeah, I mean, just plain ass fucking whey. I mean, we talked about this when we first started. If we were to do a supplement line, it would be like the most purest raw version of the three or four most studied fucking supplements that actually help you. It doesn't actually work. And I'm not trying, yeah, I'm not trying to just do this flash bang, you know, razzle, dazzle bullshit with supplements where, you know, 50 million ingredients and we've got the latest this, that and the other and we don't know how they work together because nothing's ever combined them and shown you with just like the new tropics study. All those ingredients alone may have some potential like vimpicitine. It's gonna have a mild stimulant effect. Tyrosine may actually have that as well. The only thing you combine with caffeine that has been shown in studies to be beneficial for some people is theanine. Theanine's in there as well. I bet you if they compared theanine and caffeine to just caffeine, actually they have done that. And they've shown that the theanine caffeine combo is better for some people. But other than that, throwing a bunch of shit in there that's, you know, maybe has some studies that show it works okay by itself, that doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna work. And then when you compound things, like here's a deal. Here's what I like to do with certain supplements. I don't like to necessarily combine supplements to amplify their effect. I like to combine supplements in many times to, let's say I take a stimulant. I would rather, rather than taking a stimulant with another stimulant, I'll take a stimulant with something that may counteract some of the negative effects of the stimulant. For example. You don't need the jitters. Exactly. For example, one of my favorite combinations is caffeine with like the four-sigmatic reishi or chaga. Now why would I do that with the reishi and chaga? Well reishi and chaga have a calming effect on the body. Now they don't make you sleepy. Like if you drink reishi during the day, you're not gonna wanna go to sleep. It just gives you this kind of sense of calm and well-being. Now caffeine for some people like me, if I have caffeine, sometimes it's great and sometimes I get a little edgy or I get a little too stimulated. Anybody who's ever experienced that knows that if you take stimulants, if you take too many of them or the wrong amount and you get too stimulated, your performance decreases. So you're worse off than you were before. It's not better. So for me, when I combine caffeine with like reishi or chaga or both, I get this, I don't get the overstimulated effect. I get more of the benefits of the caffeine less of the negatives. And that's how I think supplements should be viewed. Right, with this additive effect. Now when you do that, because you've got me using the chaga lately and I do like the way I feel from it. Now, would you use the chaga and mix it like in a coffee or would you just drink the chaga separate and then take like a caffeine pill? So I personally, coffee for me, I do on and off. And the reason why I'd go on and off with it is I might have a mild intolerance to the coffee itself that might bother my gut a little bit. So sometimes I'll have it, sometimes I won't. Usually what I'll do is I'll do either the, the Four Sigmatic has a matcha drink mix which has got some caffeine. So I'll do that or I'll do green tea which doesn't seem to bother my gut. Or I'll just do a caffeine pill and I'll take it with chaga. But yeah, you can, and here's the thing. I know you don't like the taste of the mushrooms. I'm getting better at it. I've been, you've been talking shit to me and I've been, I've been guzzling it down and I do like the feel of it. I mean, if I can get past the, you know. Are you doing it with Cavi Done of Caffeine yet? That I have not done. That's why I'm asking you right now because after you said that, I'm like, okay, that'd be interesting. I haven't tried to pair those together yet. Yeah, because have you guys ever experienced that over-stimulated? Oh, no, absolutely. If you go to, if I take like, for example, I haven't been, I don't use pre-workouts that often. In fact, maybe in a month's time I can count on one hand how many times I might use a pre-workout. And if I get one that's got three, 400 milligrams of caffeine, it can really over-stimulate me to where it's like I'm jittery and over-amped going into my workouts and it- You go, do you feel like you get out of breath really quickly? Well, yeah, or I'm antsy and anxious feeling. And you can't think that that's, it's just like when you're getting ready to get like a major lift, it's crazy. There's a part of you that wants to be amped up CNS-wise, but then there's a part of you too that wants to be kind of calm too, if that makes sense. Because you don't want to be so shaky going into that too. It's like you can't summon your power well because you're too shaky or too amped. For me, what happens is I get out of breath. So I'll do a set of squats for like eight to 10 reps. It happens to me, yeah. And it's like sitting there breathing hard. Just being restrictive, yeah. It's too much. So that's why I like to combine it with, I mean, my favorite, like I said, chaga or raishi with caffeine. Lion's mane is good too. The only thing is that I don't like, I don't like rhodiola. And I know a lot of lion's mane mixes have rhodiola in it, although a lot of other people do like rhodiola. I like them areolas. Yeah, areola. But I'll mix it with, just like I said, the raishi or chaga, and I have this like smooth, cool, you know, stimulated effect where I'm not super amped. Speaking of squats, by the way, yesterday was my second workout of phase two of split. Are you starting it, Adam? I'm about to. When's it today? I don't know if I'm gonna start it today. I'm ready. I've been talking about this for about a month and a half or whatever long it's been since we were getting ready for our launch. And I just wasn't ready. I wouldn't, I didn't, I haven't been putting enough volume in my training. I mean, it's just, I was probably running, when I first got back from recovering from my Achilles, I was doing even a modified maps red, you know. And I've finally have been cranking away at training like in a maps red type style. And I've been transitioning into more of like a maps aesthetic right now. So I feel like my body is, is ready for that. I think, and I think that this is important because- It's funny because people are gonna think, why don't you just jump right in or get fast and go? This is a mistake that I would make when I was in my early twenties is I would, you know, be inconsistent, fall off the wagon, injury, whatever the excuse is that I've been not consistent with my training. And then I'd want to start a new program where I'd open up the latest magazine and follow whatever fucking Ronnie Coleman was doing or whatever. And I go right into this like intense, high volume type of program. Sets your back. Yeah, and, and you know, sore as fuck for the, and you, it's like, you know, you brag to your buddies like, oh, I could barely walk today. And oh man, I fucked it up yesterday. And it used to be like this badge of honor to go through this process. And you knew that like on a couple of weeks, I won't be that sore anymore than, but what I didn't realize was how much I was shooting myself in the foot by training this way. And one of the smartest and best things that I ever did was start to scale back my intensity and volume when I'm getting back into a rhythm and, and doing again, what we always, we talk about it all the time on the show, but it's really hard to put that in practice, right? Like to do as little as possible to- Can you go check dude? It is. That's why I'm doing Maps Aesthetic. I know you guys are all in split, but like I just don't train that way, you know, very frequently. You're kind of a pussy too. This is a fucking guy. It's so funny here. I've all, the least pussy. It's the one I care the least about. You know what I'm saying, but- Well, you better fucking- I'm going in. I'm fucking all in, dude. You better fucking step- He's in on it. Step up, dude, because it's on now. It's on now. Oh, please. Are we gonna announce it? Please just fucking on now. Are we gonna announce the call? Well, you already did. You called us out on InstaStory. It's already in the bag, dude. I was just, I was just- Oh, you called, I'm the only one not making excuses. I'm sitting here listening to you guys- You just squabbled the whole time. We need to figure out what- The parameters are. Yeah, because what we're gonna do, I think six weeks is a good time, right? A six-week period. We're all gonna compete, and it's everybody. It's the whole mind-pump team. Yeah, we do the whole staff. Everyone's gonna get their body fat measured. We're all getting sexy. And we're gonna see who does the most improvements in six weeks. Now, here's my qualm. Here's my only qualm, okay? Let's hear it. You guys are both entering into this contest. Here comes all the fucking excuses. No, no, no, hold on a second. You guys are entering into the contest decondition in comparison to how you were. Excuse you, I look fucking good right now. I look fucking good. I'm back, I'm not back-back. I'm not like ready to hop on a stage in six weeks, but I'm cool, bro. Did you forget that in this exact episode about two minutes ago, you said how you're slowly ramping up, you are deconditioned compared to your preview, like when you're consistent for a long period of time. I don't mean like- I'm not admitting that. Yeah, I'm not saying you're- Yeah, I'm in like at the volume or the capacity. Yeah, but I just said that I'm there, like I'm getting ready to do map split. Dude, your volume isn't that much higher than mine probably right now. But I haven't- I mean, you just trained with me the other day and you were like, fuck bro, you can't believe how much legs you did. I was trying to make you feel better. I was fine in it. That's it. I was trying to make you feel better, bro. No, but you know, here's the deal. I haven't taken any time. I've been consistent this whole time. It's gonna be harder. It's gonna be a harder problem, bro. Well, it's gonna be harder to get my body to change. Well. How am I gonna get my- You know what I'm saying? If I walked into it- If that's the parameters, I think at the end of the day, it's just like, I don't even know how we're evaluating this. It's just who's looking good. I mean, I'd be scared as fuck too if my co-host was a professional at this too. Yeah, well- I mean, I would be thinking of all the excuses of why- Well, when are we gonna make a performance like element in there? Like it's fucking cool. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. When I first came on board with this squad, we did all performance, bro. Here's the- You're right. We were squatting, deadlifting and overhead pressing and that's all we were talking about. Hold on a second. We've never- We've never- We're all just talking about that. Like that was like barely even the conversation. Justin, here's the deal though. Here's the problem. We've never done this with everybody being natural. That's a big element. Oh, that's a- And now you're natural. That is. Right. So now- Which is why we're gonna- That's why it's fucking fair. It is. It's all proving ground. You don't hear me talking about how I have fucking testosterone of a fucking 15-year-old chick, bro. And I'm not bitching. Well- You know what I'm saying? Like 15-year-old girls got more testosterone running through her. Yeah, but you can't- Yeah, I get it. And you've come a long way. It'll be a good, it'll be a fun, fun contest. But we're all natural now. It's gonna be awesome. You got muscle memory, dude. I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, your muscles remember what happened. Yeah, I got that on my- That's my one thing, but I'll tell you something right now. You guys like three months ago, and that's why I'm excited to do this now is because I finally even have the motivation to lift consistently to where I could think I could even handle this. But that whole process of trying to get my hormones back, I did not- Back, that sounds weird, right? But get them back up. I did not- My body was not responding. So muscle memory or not, like if your hormones are fucking off, it's weird. I've never put so much work into trying to change my body composition and seeing so little change. It was fucking very, it was very, very frustrating. Of course. Yeah, I'm finally feel like it, I've- Natural world. Welcome to the natural world. Welcome to the natural world. Okay, guys, okay. I can't wait to whoop this shit out of all of you. I can't wait for this. You're in my fucking world now, dude. Let the shit storm again. That's gonna be a good time. I can't go to the old well anymore. I mean, the old wish well. The old games well. I got an idea, I got an idea. Why don't we all compete, you stay natural, Justin and I will get on a cycle. And we'll do the old school competition. Yes, bring it. Oh, I like that idea. Bring it, dude. Oh, no. Bring it. You wanna see me pull 700 off the floor and have Justin squatting 600 pounds? Oh my God. Everybody talks a big game about, you know what's so funny? How many guys think that testosterone is like the fucking magic answer, dude? Jesus Christ. It's always from guys that never ran the shit either. You don't say like, oh man, if I had testosterone in me, I would be doing this. Well, how big of a difference is it? To be weird, though. This is so funny. You're counting yourself. How big of a difference is it when you had low testosterone versus when you were on gear? Night and day. Well, yeah. Low versus on, yeah. 100%. It was night and day just a difference between being low to having therapy, just to having a therapy. Night and day. Yeah. Okay, so how big of a difference do you think it would be if Justin and I, who are normal. Not that big. How? That's bad. That math doesn't make any sense. I don't know. Just like that, he just cuts you out of there. Right, because I know where he's going. This is why, because it's where it's different and this is true, for sure. And this is why I would love to see you guys do that because if you're coming from a healthy, good place where your body does wanna build testosterone because you are a male and you're producing a normal amount, not high, normal, and you go to a superficial crazy dose. 100%. You'll feel it. You'll be stronger. You'll see more results. But it's not as dramatic as somebody who's getting like no testosterone or very, very low and getting them up. They're totally different. They're that difference is a bigger difference. It's just like a guy and you can talk to any bodybuilder who's taken 200 milligrams to 500 to 700 to a gram. And the difference between that is so incremental in comparison to somebody who is super low going to. Well, you know, that's an interesting argument and I could definitely entertain it. But I don't, on the other side of it, I think like if we were to put Justin on a cycle, he'd never done a cycle before. The kid is a fucking horse with normal testosterone. I can't imagine what would happen if we put him on a cycle for six months. Can't imagine what would happen. I think you would be interesting. Here's, I have no idea, right? So it would just be fun. I think you guys, I think you would be surprised because if you're, the other parts of all this, especially when it comes to body composition change, the nutritional piece, the stress. That's gonna be everything. Yes, regardless. That's everything. So if you- I think we all know that though, that's the thing. Maybe that's another thing that like helps spark the workouts more, you know what I mean? I took anabolic in my mid-20s and never, I never got a physique better than the one I have right now. Taking anabolic. Okay, so steroids is not the fucking answer. Oh no, of course not. It's in fact- No, no, training and diet are more- I don't- It's way, way more. Yeah, of course. Of course. So you could easily take something like that and be, and I guarantee there's more people listening to this show right now that have tried steroids that did not get the results. They anticipated. Because of conversations like this where everyone's like, oh my God, I bet even. Oh no, no. What I'm saying is for guys like us who know what we're doing, like I've gotten down to four- This is the point. I've gotten down to 4% naturally. I've done, you know, I've taken designer steroids, you know, over the counter. I know what they can do to the body and I know how big of an impact it can make. And here's the thing, you're right. To get shredded, that's the diet component, okay? But here's the other side of it. When you're on anabolic and you diet, you don't lose nearly as much muscle. You don't have to worry about- Right. Losing muscle much. And there is the real advantages. Huge. The biggest advantage is being a guy who's been on and off testosterone a bunch of times since I was 20-something years old the biggest advantage is that I always saw strength gains for sure and motivation to train, which that's huge, because that's gonna help with consistency. And then recovery, right? Your recovery ability and the ability to hang on to lean body massing. So that allows a lot of room for air. So you can get away with, you know, bad calories over training. Right, you can get away with over training. You can get away- Lack of sleep. You just get away with lack of sleep. Right, you can get away with lack of sleep and get away with cutting too hard, you know, probably reducing too many calories or over training and still being able to maintain muscle mass and lean out. So yeah, there's definitely a huge- There's not a huge appeal to it for me anyways. No, we're not gonna do it. Yeah, no, it's just like, it's a fun thing to fucking poke at. Yeah, it is. Because you get so angry. Yeah. But we need to figure out- That's why it's gonna make it so much more fun when I'll whoop your asses and stuff. Oh my God. With my whole 41 test or whatever the fuck my test results were. Hey, listen, you wanna talk about- Maybe that's- You wanna talk about- You should measure that too. You wanna talk about all those things. I'm older than you guys. I'm almost 40 years old. And arguably- You got a year on me, you got two on Adam. Yeah, so we'll see what ends up happening. But we need to figure out the- We need to figure out the parameters. Well, what we'll do for the audience is we will measure where we're at, right? So we'll share our lean body mass, our fat mass, and our body fat percentage. Should we throw any strength in there too? Or just look- No, this is cosmetic, dude. We're going- This is a cosmetic challenge, it's fine. I'm up for it. I think it's been a long time since we've done this. All right, all right. No, and I think it's great. Don't forget the fucking dark horse in this, the person that we're not even considering, which is Doug. And I've trained Doug, and I know what it is. Well, this is a whole- You've seen him get to shreds in the USA. I know what he does when he puts his mind to something, and it's pretty fucking remarkable. This is a whole staff thing too, so you can't discount the youngsters either. I mean, you got- Oh, Drew, he's hungry. Right. I've seen him train hard. He's already gaining some mass. Hey, listen, there's a little bit of a psychological, you know, warfare gonna be going on too. Just let you guys know. So I may be giving some of these kids wrong advice. I might walk out there and be like, oh, Enzo, today you should eat nothing because it's getting out, you know what I mean? We'll see what happens. This is need more sugar. This is true. Hey, you know, I know one of our sponsors, we were talking about Forrest Gimatic today, but we didn't talk about our brew doctor. And did you guys see what- They're in cans now. Well, yeah, not only are they in cans, but you see what Dr. Brink sent over, the mint lemonade. Yes, the mint lemonade. Have you tried it? No. It's so fucking good. Oh, you've had it. Yeah, I've had it. I've had it at Whole Foods. They already have them? Those ones over there? Yeah, I've seen Whole Foods in the harbor. Can we send, Doug, can you possibly send Enzo a text? I would love to get some of those and try them because Brink was raving about it, how amazing they taste. Yeah. And I didn't know if they actually had- I didn't know if- Super refreshing, dude, as far as like a kombucha, you know? Yeah, mint lemonade, kombucha. Come on, dude, like even just saying that, like it sounds delicious and it was. So the cans are, I know the last time we did a commercial for them, they were about to release the cans at Whole Foods. So they're officially in there now then. So I saw a can at Whole Foods and bought it. Oh, sick, dude. Delicious. And so they're Whole Foods, they're like it with Trader Joe's, I think they're in Sprouts too. Yeah, they're in some of those. Costco. This, it's the kombucha of choice for Mind Pump. This quiz brought to you by OrganiFi. For those days you fall short on getting your organic veggies or Whole Food nutrition, OrganiFi fills the gap with laboratory-tested certified organic superfoods to help give your health a performance the added edge. Try OrganiFi totally risk-free for 60 days by going to OrganiFi.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com. And use a coupon code Mind Pump for 20% off at checkout. First question is from Evan Brandenburg. Do you think it's more common for people to under-train or over-train? And how can you tell? Over-train. Yeah, well, it depends on the type of people we're talking about. Yeah, but what do we think it's, well, okay, yeah, that's fair enough. The average person under-train. Right, right. Most people touch you enough. I mean, that's a good point, because every time, like I assume things, I always forget about the general population. It's completely different. That's totally fair. I think we all agree on that, that the general population is for sure under-train. You don't even need to ask Mind Pump that question, right? I think that's an obvious statement because majority is already considered obese. Get up and do something. So they're obviously, but people that actually go to the gym and work out, I would argue that are more likely to over-train than under-train, yeah. And you know, it really, what people need to understand about over-training is two things. First off, when we talk about over-training, there's a couple understandings that people have about over-training. One of them is you're doing too much, you're damaging your body too much, your body can't repair and recover, and you're hurting yourself. And yes, that also means over-training, but that's much more rare and not as common as the other understanding of over-training, which is this, doing more than you need to do. That's just the, that's the state. Like doing more than you need to do is overdoing it or over-training. And when you over-train in that context, yeah, you can probably recover from it, your body may still adapt and all that stuff, but what's also gonna happen is A, at best, you're just doing more work than is necessary. And if you're a smart person who likes to make their time efficient, if I can get the same results with 30 minutes, then I can with 45 minutes, or with 10 sets that I can with 20 sets, then it's smarter to do the less amount of sets. That's number one. But number two, that's not usually how it works. What usually happens is doing a little bit more than you need to takes away from your body's ability to adapt in the sense that you're not gonna get as effective as results. Once you set those gears in motion for the body to adapt, doing too much just takes away from that. Now, how can you tell? That's the difficult question. Like, let me ask you guys a question. Oh, I'll tell you, easy way to tell. When you get really sore, that is a sign of over-training. That's a sign of over-training. So beings, like we all, and it's definitely something that we all do ourselves, which is chase that feeling because then it reminds us I worked out hard, I did some good work yesterday, but it's actually a sign of over-training. So if, and I'd rather, this is the way I look at it. I wanna feel it a little bit, so I wanna be a little bit sore, like I wanna know that I trained yesterday, like I wanna know that, okay, I hit legs yesterday and I feel it today, but if it's impeding on the way I walk and move because I'm so sore, for sure that was over-training. For sure that's over-training. If you, and same for I use legs, but use every other muscle, if you are sore to the touch in your chest and it hurts to close and squeeze and flex your chest because you worked out chest it, that's over-training. You do not need to train that hard to elicit change in the body and in fact, you would rather, and so that should be your gauge, like, oh, whoops, I over-reached a little bit. So I'm always flirting with that. I wanna over-reach just a little bit, so I do wanna feel a little soreness, so I'm quote-unquote over-training a tiny bit, but I think most people go way too far. I think they over-train so much because they think that sore feeling that they're chasing is an indicator of a good workout, that's not true. Now here's the thing with it and this is what's interesting and I've experienced this myself. You can over-train and not get sore. And I've experienced this myself where, so years ago, I, I've seen this just feels fried. You just, you're just not progressing. So years ago, I, you know, I wanted to see how much, Why did somebody on our YouTube channel try and say that CNS talk was bro signs? Did you see that? Yeah, well, because why? Because there's debate as to whether or not YouTube fucking shows are great. YouTube is hilarious, bro. That's troll land. It is troll land. If you, if you have any kind of insecurities or lack of confidence. I was like, I know. I was like, I've never heard a bro talk about central nervous system. It's not popular at all, actually. Thank you. I was like, that's bro signs. Only power lifters. Yeah, that's about it. Yeah, if you have any insecurities at all, don't smartest like out there as far as like training. Don't make videos on YouTube. I'm sorry. You will get ripped apart. Yeah, I'm sorry. I derailed you there. But I just, you said that and I just got done reading some of our YouTube comments. That's hilarious. And somebody made that comment. I'm like, I don't know any bros that we're talking. Did you guys see, I did the forearm strengthening video on YouTube, right? On how to train your forearms. And it's blowing up for whatever reason. I don't know if someone shared it or whatever. It's getting all these views. We have like Japan's sharing a bunch of our shares. And there's this, there's this Japan. There's this dude. There's this guys that are like, your forearms are skinny, man. You're not that big. I'm not gonna listen. Bro, if this was, if I was 19 years old, I'd be devastated. You know what I mean? I'd be reading it back. Oh my God. I need to get out some gear. No. This is terrible. But yeah. You make me feel bad. You gotta be a confident motherfucker to put some shit up on YouTube. Cause they're gonna rip you. Fucking asshole. I'm glad that we built some clout before we got on there first. Cause at least we have some of our folks. I see like, we actually, yeah, it might have been smart in our approach of doing podcasts. Then, you know. I'm so conf, you, so you guys, we're all so confident in ourselves and securing ourselves. I don't care. Hey, you thought shit fine. Yeah, I don't, I don't give a shit. But no, so here's the thing. I did this a long time ago. So years ago I was pushing volume, frequency and intensity. And I kept pushing it to see how far I could go. And here's the thing. You can, and I was using soreness as a gauge. And what started happening was the more I trained, the less sore I got to the point where I didn't even get sore anymore. I was training so often, so frequently with so much volume. I wasn't getting sore. However, I wasn't progressing either. And in fact, I started to regress a little bit. I noticed that I wasn't as strong in my workouts. And I wasn't getting a good pump in my workouts. And so I was overtraining without even getting sore. So another way to tell if you're overtraining, and the problem with what I'm about to say is it could also mean you're under training, okay? But another way you can tell if you're overtraining is, are you just not progressing? Maybe you're not progressing. You're pushing your body. You're doing all these exercises and you're not progressing. So you decided to do more. Yeah, you're not providing the right stimuli. And you're still not progressing. I think what's most common with that is people that, that happens to, tends to happen to people that follow the same routine, same exercise. It's just stuck. And they just keep increasing intensity, intensity, intensity. Yeah, that's their only metric they're in. Right, and so they're, but they're still doing the same movements, right? Like that, and that's a lot of the reason why they plateau. And then maybe they're not getting sore anymore because yeah, their bodies adapted. I mean, they do those same movements every fucking time they come in and lift for legs or chest or whatever muscle group we're talking about. And their bodies become so adapted to that movement that just by increasing intensity is no longer enough anymore. It's used to that pattern, so. The best gauge that I know when I would, the one that I would use when I would train clients is are they progressing consistently in different metrics? So it could be strength. That's an easy one. It could be stamina. It could be range of motion, mobility. It can be control. It can be they're doing an exercise that they weren't able to do before. It could be that they have less pain, but are they progressing consistently? And if they are, then I know I'm doing the right things. If they're not, then I will examine are they under-training, over-training, or do I need to reprogram or change the workout? Now, sometimes it was under-training, but this wasn't super common with my clients, because oftentimes, this was common when I had clients for long periods of time. So I'll use Doug's an example, because I trained Doug for a few years. When I first started training Doug, I had him lift weights for a grand total of two days a week. That's how we started with me. Two days a week, full body. Then we, his body kind of started plateauing a little bit. We changed the programming, still plateauing. Then I bumped him up to three days a week, and then we started adding trigger sessions. And so I realized for him that because he was so consistent and did everything I told him, and I trained him for so long consistently, that we could progress him and then his body would start progressing again. I'd add things. An example of more is not always better. Everybody thinks that, okay, if I'm at a certain level, so now I should keep adding. And I should keep adding, whether it's intensity or volume, whatever, keep adding, but sometimes the best thing you can do is subtract and start, give your body more recovery and more ability to adapt properly. That's one of my favorite things to do. I love blowing people, experience trainees minds that way where I'll look at their work. I'll be like, cool, you're working out six days a week. I'm gonna have you work out four days a week. And they look at me like I'm crazy. And I say, let's give it two weeks. I just give them two weeks. Let's see if you get stronger in two weeks. And it doesn't even take that long. Usually it's within that week. They'll come back and be like, oh, I lifted 15 pounds more than I did before. And it's trips them out that they could cut the amount of working out that they're doing and get better results. Oh, I would say that's one of the biggest difference personally in my own routines and training is just, I've learned to get away with doing way less and achieving way more with my body than I ever have. I mean, I worked way harder than I needed to in my 20s trying to achieve these results just because I wasn't going about it smart. I was training like everybody else. That's why when I think of this question and even though I agree with Sal, you know, I'm looking at all these different variables. I think the easiest for me to explain to somebody that I'm not coaching and watching all the other variables, I just pay attention to how sore you are. If you're getting that sore after your workouts and use that as a gauge to tell you you're probably going too far. Like you'll want to feel it. You want to overreach a tiny bit because we do want to signal adaptation. We're not, or else you're just optimizing, right? If you're not stretching your capacity a little bit, then yeah, you're not going to send a signal to adapt and grow and change. But that's just, that's the goal is to do just enough to send that adaptation signal but then not to overdo it and over train the body. So use the soreness as a gauge. You know, it's another one too that I noticed with overtraining at least with myself is my sleep quality. When I overtrain, it's harder for me to fall asleep or and it's harder for me to wake up and I feel groggy when I wake up. Mainly the wake up thing, yeah. That's the one I definitely noticed right away. Sleep, right? Yeah, sleep. Because then like bringing that into the next workout, like if I'm trying to make sure I'm nice and frequent in my workouts and I just feel so fucking groggy, I really have to summon energy to keep going. You know, that's something that I, it's kind of an indicator because only reason being like Adam where I used to focus more on always trying to up my intensity, always try to, you know, like accomplish more in my workouts and that was always the mentality. And then once I stopped with that mentality, realized that I could focus a little bit more on rest and make that more of a priority and then see what that did for my training. It was insane. So there is a right dose and that's something that I had to learn. It was something I had to recondition. That's excellent. It's a right dose. Anything outside of the right dose, whether it's too little or too much is going to impede your body's ability to progress or at least you're not going to progress as quickly. So try always to find the perfect dose and the perfect dose is not more. It's not more, it's the right amount. That's right. Next question is from Danny and Dennis. How do you meet men such as yourselves who are open, honest, and interested? Sorry, Doug. In both self-development and the growth of a meaningful relationship with a partner and who are also open to discussing these topics. Yeah, this is, we are a bit of unicorns. Yeah, no, not at all. You know, here's a thing about meeting men and women who are under this criteria. Number one, I think, and the reason why I'm commenting on this is I have a younger brother and have younger cousins who are all, they're all late 20s, early 30s. So they're right in that prime age of dating and they have money now and they're all kind of serious about finding someone who maybe they want to really be with rather than just dating a bunch of people and having fun type of deal. And I talk to them about this all the time because my brother's a good example. He'll come to me and be like, dude, where do I find good girls who have good family values, who we can connect with, who we can have a good relationship with. And I'm like, well, you're not gonna find them the way you look now. Like you're not gonna find them if you're looking. You're not gonna find them on Tinder. You're not gonna find them with the Tinder profiles that you're swiping on, where it's like half naked chick and she's like, I like to bang and have fun or whatever. That's not the kind of, I've never seen that. Where are you swiping? He showed me an example. Bro, you should see some of these profiles, dude. Oh yeah. You should see. The advice I gave to them is like, first of all, I said, well, first of all, take it seriously. And what I mean by that is, try to meet people and connect with people on stuff aside from sexual attraction and physical attraction. Now, of course those are important, but what I mean is like, sit down, have conversations with people. Meet people in places where that's the type of stuff that happens. Like bookstores are great or coffee shops or events where people are meeting because there's something that's there that's aside from just a music festival or whatever. Like take it seriously and have these kind of conversations with people and put it out there that that's who you're looking for and that's what you're looking for. And yes, you're gonna scare away a lot of people. Like if you meet a bunch of dudes and you tell them each one of them like, oh, I'm looking for a relationship, a serious relationship with people who are growth minded. For sure you're gonna scare away a lot of guys, but that's not because you're saying the wrong thing. It's because most guys or a lot of guys are just interested in the quick, you know, sex. You wanna go for an older man, you know? A more seasoned man. Like Doug over here. It's a real forward thinking kind of guy. I have something that's, it's some controversial advice in this department. I would say find somebody who reads the Bible that is not dogmatic about it. I think that the values that are taught in there, if somebody can take the, there's other great books too. I think it's the greatest book, but I think the principles behind it, the lessons that are in it, the philosophy behind it, if you have somebody that has either read that or reads through that and then doesn't get sucked into the dogmatic religious part about it, I think that you're gonna get an incredibly growth minded individual who talks about the topics that we're talking about. I think that's a decent strategy. And a lot of times people today are struggling with finding these type of people because they are swiping, right? Like Sal was saying, or they're going to bars or meetups or clubs. And that's sometimes the, where those people's values are or where their mindset is currently in their life is probably not right here where you're asking. The questions you're asking about honesty and growth and development and open mindedness and looking for a meaningful relationship. I've had a lot of relationships. I've been to a lot of bars, a lot of clubs and I never met somebody like that at one of those places. Now I've had cool relationships, I've had great friendships, I've had incredible weekends doing this, but I've never met somebody that have these values that you're mentioning. Yeah, I got some advice. I think another good place to kind of look for somebody that embodies all these characteristics would be to like volunteer somewhere. Like volunteer, like, you know, like it, I mean, any kind of shelter or any kind of like organization that really is doing something that's for humanity. And like, I mean, it's inevitable you're going to find, you know, a guy there that's like interested in, you know, things other than himself. And I think that's a rare thing to come across these days, unfortunately, but like to find somebody that's like really thinks outside of their own needs. And that's a characteristic that I think is a very attractive character. Agreed, and I'll take it a step further and make it more general. And I think this covers what you both are saying. Meet people at places where they're there for something that is meaningful to them. Or that it aligns with your values. Sure, of course. But my point is like, okay, you know, you're going to meet someone at a bar. What's meaningful about that, right? We're there to have a good time, drink, get drunk, whatever. Not necessarily the best place. Can you meet someone there? Sure. Who's like all these things you can. But let's say you go to an event where we're all meeting together because we're discussing, I don't know, something you're interested in, physics or fitness or nutrition or religion or volunteering. When you meet people in these places where people are there because they find some purpose or meaning behind what they're doing, then you're more likely to have these kind of relationships or conversations with people. The other thing too is, I definitely know what's probably not a good idea. I don't think it's a good idea to be under the influence of substances early on in a relationship or meet someone under that. Not to say that that's not a bad thing later on. But early on, you want to meet and be able to hang out with someone and have good conversation with someone without alcohol, without weed, without distractions where you could just meet, have lunch at the park. There's nothing to do but talk. And then it's very easy to see, okay, well we have good conversation. Or we don't, we can get very deep. Are you excited to meet this person and hang out with them besides the fact that you're attracted to them? Like, do you like to just hang out with them? I know, the funny thing is with Jessica when I first met her, I wanted to, I didn't want to have sex with her right away, although, of course, eventually we did. I just wanted to talk and kiss her, which was very strange, kind of a strange feeling. Like, I knew there was something more there because it wasn't just about the physical attraction, although I did acknowledge that. It was like, whoa, I want to just hang out and talk to this person. And so I would say set up dates like that too were, cause then you can weed it out pretty easily. Like, you know, like I said, I have my younger cousins, right? They'll meet up with girls and be like, you know, I like hanging out with this girl but only when we go out and party. Otherwise, I don't know what to say to her. And I'm like, well, that's definitely not somebody you're going to want to date long-term. You know what's funny about this? Like, that's I only had three relationships. No, yeah, well, no, I'm not saying that. No, this screams like, why don't you just call that guy you've kept in the friend zone? You know what I'm saying? Like, you've been putting him on the shelf. He's been getting old. You've been going for all these fucking bad boys and you know, like, rugged guys. There's a great point. There's a great point right there, Justin, that you just made is, you know, sometimes I think both women and men, this happens, right? We're so focused on trying to find the partner that we still haven't truly figured out what's right for ourselves and the possibility that you continue to chase after your insecurities and you don't realize that. I mean, I know for many, many years, many of the women that I thought I really loved or I really liked or wanted to be with were feeding into a lot of my own insecurities and I didn't realize that because I felt this connection and there was passion and I was attracted to or we had fun, all these other attributes that we think are really important to having a healthy relationship. Meanwhile, I'm not realizing all the issues that I have that stem all the way back to childhood and why I find myself in these and I've used the example with me, like, you know, I was grew up without a real good solid father figure and so I kind of naturally gravitated towards women that I could teach and that I could, and that is my own insecurity and I didn't think it was when it was happening but I found myself always wanting to be in charge and to be educating or helping her and it's in different areas. It wasn't just in health and fitness, it could be in just life and business and helping them with whatever but I always were attracted to that and as I got older, what I would end up happening, I got girls that challenged me more that were almost as smart as me that were almost as experienced as I was but I still was kind of leading all the time and I didn't really have a real relationship where it was push and pull or evenly, even, even. It was always me in that role and it took a long time for me to even see that because when you're in it and when you're chasing those people, you don't realize that. So I think, you know, finding some of the right people for you is also finding out more about yourself. So maybe look in a little bit too and pay attention to what are your patterns and why do you go for those type of other guys and what's drawn you to it and fix that first. This is why I like, this is why I like some of these online dating sites like eHarmony or whatever because the people who go on some of these sites are looking for long-term relationships. Now there's definitely sites where they're not looking for that but there are some where that's what they're looking for and you can start your relationship off slow through email and then phone conversation and just take your time. Just friendship. Yeah, yeah, start with that. Next question is from Aragama8. Is it possible for someone to stretch too often? Absolutely. You know what? I've actually had clients who I told not to stretch ever. Now it's not super common but like I had one client who she was just lax, like her, she had extreme mobility and range of motion. She could, you know, do the splits without even thinking about it. Her hips were super hyper mobile. Her shoulders were hyper mobile but she had lots of injuries and pain because she had no strength. And you know, lots of flexibility without strength is my instability. It might even be worse than having, being tight. It's very dangerous. Yeah, being tight might not even be as dangerous as that. Like that's a very bad position to be in because you're moving in these wide ranges of motion. Your body's kind of floppy. You don't have the strength to support things and you can get some major, major problems. I've trained a lot of yoga instructors because of this where all they did was the Yin yoga classes or they taught lots of Yin yoga classes and they'd come to me because their hips were messed up. In fact, hip injuries or hip pain is a common one. Now that being said, this is a lot like the first question which is the under and over train which is for the general population most people need to be stretching more. Well, the right way. Right. The right way. Well, yeah, that's given, right? Yeah. Just like training the right way versus whatever. Well, so the general population is probably got a lot of tight hips from sitting in chairs all the time and not ever, most people cannot sit down in the baby position, bottom line. So most people need more stretching in their life like Sal's saying, the right way. But then absolutely you can be somebody who has a profession that's in the yoga world and you don't train very much and all you do is stretch and you try and be more and more limber and you think that's ideal. But again. Well, you know why I wanted to emphasize the right way because when we say stretch, everybody thinks of static stretching. Most people, right? When I say stretch, what do you think? Sit down. Throw your leg up on top of something. Yeah, and make it stretch or sit down in a position where the muscle's stretching and just sit there for a little bit or go down and touch my toes, type of deal. That kind of stretching is good for alleviating some pain now but in terms of long term, if you don't combine it with some activation or some strength, it may not even benefit you and in fact, it may actually cause some problems. The way you should stretch, the way most people should stretch is get into a position where you feel like muscles are stretching and then activate those muscles and the opposing muscles when you're in that stretch. You wanna connect. Yeah, you literally wanna tense up your muscles which seems counterproductive. Yeah, you wanna connect to that range of motion because if you don't connect to it, you're just increasing range of motion where you don't have any strength and you're causing lots of problems. I like dynamic stretching a little bit better so a good example of like a hamstring stretch, right? So like a static hamstring stretch would be standing with your legs apart and then just bending over and trying to touch the floor and holding that, right? A better way would be to stand still, keep your legs straight and kinda kick it straight out in front of you. Not super hard, so don't overdo it but kick it up enough to where you feel the hamstring stretch. Bring it back down. Do that again, bring it back down and do reps of that for each leg. It's a much more functional. It's a much more functional way to stretch the body but to take it even a step further, I'll say this, proper resistance training where you're actually challenging ranges of motion. You're moving with proper positioning and posture and you're doing exercises that challenge those things. You don't need to stretch at all. I mean, does that mean you won't benefit from extra stretching? No, you can benefit from extra stuff but if you're the average person and you're doing resistance training properly where you're challenging ranges of motion, you're connecting to those new ranges of motion, you're not overdoing it. You're doing movements like squats and lunges and rows and deadlifts and overhead presses and all that stuff. If you do all that properly, does the average person even need to make a, have a stretching routine? No, that's gonna give you all the range of motion that you're gonna need at all, especially for modern life. But yeah, what happens to someone when they stretch too much? Similar things that would happen with people when they work out too much. You can cause muscle damage, get yourself really, really sore if you overstretch. You can change your recruitment patterns to cause problems with pain. That typically happens though from stretching too hard and too intensely versus often, right, frequency. Just overdoing it all. Yeah, overdoing stretching is more often done from the intensity of the stretch than I think it is the frequency of the stretch. I think if frequently stretching areas that you need to work on is probably a really good strategy. I just think like you said, I think a lot of people- I think it just leaves you a little more vulnerable. Like when you have to overcome force and you don't have the ability to support your body in that capacity, you don't have the strength to kind of support the joints like they should, but you have all this range of motion to go, leaves you compromised. This is really the magic in Prime Pro right here. I mean, this is what and why we created that is to give people direction onto stretching with purpose. And that's more of like an active stretch, right? Which is more ideal, like Sal was talking about than just doing these static holds. So if you're somebody who is wanting to stretch correctly and you're not certain on what you should do, that is an incredible program to point you in the right direction of what types of movements you should specifically be doing for your body. I think the distinction, it's not about getting to that range of motion. Like I think a lot of people with the static stretching, they wanna get to a range of motion and then relax. And like that's like the goal is to get to this. And in terms of like being able to incrementally go through that range of motion with the ability to get out of it with strength in each angle. So that's something you need to learn. I remember when the first studies came out that showed that static stretching before athletics reduced performance and increased the instance of injury. That was mind blowing. Do you remember how mind blowing that was to read those studies? You produce a lot of force right then. And then if you don't have the ability to like support your joints or your body when you apply all that force, boom, injury. Dude, they did studies where they had like sprinters do all these static stretches and then go sprint. They were slower and more injury. Does it make any sense? Yeah, and it's funny because you go to schools and this is still how people go. I know. Strength conditioning coaches, I see it all the time. I go watch like my nieces and nephews play sports and I see how the coaches are having them warm up at the beginning. I'm like, are you kidding me? We still haven't, the science hasn't made its way down to that level yet. I mean, we're there in the professional level. Professional level, they know better and they're obviously trained that way. But man, the young kids are still doing the old schools sitting a circle, you know, cross your legs, hang over, hold the stretch for fucking 30 seconds, switch sides, hold for 30 seconds before they go play a sport. And it's like, oh my God, dude, really. The best time to static stretches after a workout, if you're gonna static stretch, if you just look at increased range of motion, post-workout, that's when you do that kind of stretching. Next question is from Melinda Lovato. For Adam, with a future baby in mind, my boyfriend recently stopped steroids. He is currently going through withdrawal, depression, fatigue, headaches, et cetera. As his partner, what is the best way to support him? I know getting back into his workout routine will help but he seems to have lost all motivation. Fuck, man, damn. Will it eventually subside? I tell you what, probably one of the most challenging things I've ever gone through physically and mentally ever in my life. And I mean, where are we at right now? Like eight months or so since I completely stopped all hormone therapy and I'm barely like really starting to feel good. It was tough, man. And I tell you what, Katrina was a champion and I don't know if I could have done it without her because you're right. He's gonna be super depressed, fatigue. This is all these things too. I had depression, I had fatigue, I had headaches. I lost motivation to go lift. This is not only is this my profession, it's what I love to do. I love to train. And I had lost complete motivation to even get to the gym. And one of the things that helped me is I communicated to her like how I recognized early on like, wow, if I would go squat or deadlift at least or do a big overhead, do a big gross motor movement in the gym, even if it was just one thing. And then I did this for a while where I had so little motivation to get a good full solid workout in that I would just go at least get five sets of squats in and just that's all I did. Like at least, because what I noticed was when I did that, it would slightly bump my libido up and at least I had somewhat of a sex drive and I wanted to have sex with my partner or I would have a little bit more energy the next day. And so luckily I connected that early on and how much that was helping me. And so I communicated that to Katrina. And so then as my partner, she was like, she would remind me every once in a while when I was like, I just don't feel like going to gym. Well, hon, you know, remember how you felt when you, after you lifted, you know, you did feel a spike and you felt better the next day and later on that day, you know, but then at the same time too, she kept her space and allowed me to have those days because there was plenty of times where she was trying to motivate me to go to the gym and I'm just like, I'm not feeling it today. And so so much, I mean, I feel for you going through this with the partner because he 100% is not gonna be the normal him that you're used to, especially if he's been taking steroids for a really long time and then is completely off. You get used to being a new person. Like I'm not the strong guy I was. I didn't want to have sex all the time anymore, like I didn't have high energy levels throughout the entire day. I felt a lot of the peaks and valleys. Like, you know, you just, you go from feeling super human to not only feeling like a normal human, but like a below normal human. And that takes a while to rebound from this. And so to be supportive, you know, you gotta be patient. And I don't, your guys, obviously, I don't know what the things that he's into and the things that he likes maybe support those things and encourage that for me. And I think I shared this a couple months ago. Because I knew that my training was shitty and I didn't feel good and I had these aspects in my life that weren't good, I found other things. I think this was when I expressed that I started, you know, getting back into playing basketball and snowboarding. Now the crazy part with me was I tore my Achilles during that process. So, you know, maybe he has other passions. Another one that I have re-found in the last year is music. Music was something that I, as a kid growing up, I was very passionate about. I loved listening to music. I've always been into it. And as I've gotten older, I've just fallen off staying up and up on what's coming out, what's new and into that. Well, I've recently kicked that back up and it provides a different love for me. So maybe dive into the things that, the other things that aren't related to training and that he needs a high energy level and I don't know if he's a reader. I don't know if he's into movies. I don't know if he's into snowboarding or wakeboarding or into music and things like that. But find the things that he can maybe put his energy into or that he can do that will give him some positive vibes other than you. So those are the things I can think of supporting and then obviously you going to the gym and encouraging him to come with you when he's up to going with you, I would think. I don't recommend stopping steroids and doing this cold turkey thing. And I'll tell you why, back when Adam first went off the antibiotics, actually before this last time you went off you had gone off before. And I remember you were feeling like shit and feeling terrible. And at the time, this was early on, this was a while before, I had, I trained lots of doctors, lots of doctors and surgeons and I talked to one of my doctors about it, my doctor clients. And I said, hey, my friend, he's been on antibiotics for years. And now he went off completely. And she said, don't do that. She said, that is a terrible way to stop these things. First off, it can be dangerous where your body goes from having testosterone to no testosterone, it can be very unhealthy. And then the withdrawal symptoms can be really, really nasty. And so my recommendation is this, if he's gonna go off and he wants to have a baby, go to a doctor, a hormone specialist, and have them put him on a protocol. That's the best thing he could possibly do because here's the other thing. Adam, although he went off, he also understands how to use things like HCG and how to use other means to get us testosterone. It still sucked, it was still hard. But you know, Adam understood what to do. That's a really good point. You just imagined it going off and doing none of that. No, and you're right. So to back up a little bit on that, I didn't even think about sharing that part of this process because every year since I started HRT, so I'm 36 going on 37, I started when I was 37, I would be approaching seven years of consistently taking hormones. Now every year what I would do is I would completely come off to see if I could kind of naturally kick it up. And what would end up happening is I would go through all these feelings and I'd be like, fuck this, it ain't worth it. And at that time I wasn't even trying to have a kid, so it was just, I don't want to have to be taking synthetic testosterone for the rest of my life. So every year I would try new things or try other ways to come off. And that was when I brought it and Sal, this was a couple of years, this was like two years ago I think, and I told Sal, oh, I'm coming off and I'm gonna see if I can kick it off. And he told me, he's like, well, how long have you been taking consistently? I'm like, well, I'm on like four years now and I'm gonna try and cut cold turkey and that's when he came back and said, dude, don't do that, slowly wing off. And so what I did do, so eight months ago I came off, but what everybody should know is that, the six months leading up to that, so this really started last year. And this was last year around, I wanna say around this time actually, almost a year ago, exactly. So for about six months I was slowly tapering down. Like really, and now I never got really high. So for me that it wouldn't take as long as it might take so many, so that all matters too, right? Like if he's been taking for longer, if he's been taking higher doses, his taper could be a lot different than mine. Now luckily for me, my therapeutic dose, I was taking 250 to 300 milligrams every 14 days or so, which is pretty low, you know? It's not like a lot of these bodybuilder guys are what they're taking. And so I slowly tapered down from that to where I eventually got to the point where I said, okay, I feel okay and I'm barely taking any every two weeks, let's drop it off. And then I dropped it off and then I ran two rounds of HCG. And I ran a four-week cycle of HCG with Novodex and Clomid for four weeks. Then I was off of everything for a while. Then I believe it was about two or three months later, I ran another cycle of HCG to try and kick up my natural testosterone and then since then everything I've been off. So, and again, I shared my test from every well, you can see that I'm still on the low end of normal testosterone, but at least I'm actually producing enough that I've got a libido back. I mean, I have a pretty healthy sex life right now, which to me, that's the easiest way for me to gauge is I noticed that. And then my energy and strength in the gym is getting back to close to normal, so. Yeah, cause if you go to a hormone specialist and let them know, be honest with them with what you did, they'll put you on a protocol that exists and this protocol exists for men who don't produce lots of testosterone and it usually includes a cycle of HCG, which what HCG does is it mimics luteinizing hormone and it tells your body to produce more testosterone. Now, it's not a guarantee that it's gonna work a long term, but while you're on it, your body definitely produces more testosterone. So I would say go to a hormone therapist and do it like that because cold turkey. Oh, 100%, none of us are a doctor. So I think that's very, very important and responsible to say like. Yeah, cause even the way you did it with your experience like, if you went to a hormone therapist, what they would do is they would test you along the way, they would test things like prolactin, they'd test your estrogen levels, they would test all these different things to see if the protocol is on the right track cause going cold turkey, whew, that's a tough, tough position to be in. And it might even take him longer to recover if he does it that way versus if he goes and sees a hormone specialist who actually deals with this on a regular basis and has some medical tools that may assist his body in bringing back, you know, testosterone. I do want to plug one of our sponsors too because, you know, and I'm not, I mean, anybody's listened to this show long enough, know that I'm not a big pseudo science guy. And I was really, really hesitant to do this. But I remember I finally did and I said, okay, I'm gonna take the Juvelite home and I'm actually gonna apply this. And what did it? And then shout out to metabolic Mike, who's a friend of ours and a real smart guy. And he did this protocol himself where he actually got tested, got his testosterone tested. I want to say, and he shared this with me. So I actually saw a screenshot of it and he was at like 400 and something free test. And he boosted his natural testosterone levels to like 760 somewhere around there, give or take. And I mean, I thought that was so unbelievable. And the protocol that he followed, he was doing it every other day for 15 to 20 minutes. And like literally standing right in front of the Juvelite naked balls a couple inches away from the Juvelite for 15 to 20 minutes every other day. And he did that. I want to say it was either for six or eight weeks. And that's what he saw. And that test that he shared with me privately is what really sent me on this, okay, let's see if this fucking red light will really, because before that I was kind of like, eh, sporadically using it, but I wasn't really applying it and being consistent with everything else I was doing. And I did. And I have to say that I do feel really good. So that was something that I was not a big believer on. If you can afford the Juvelite, I know it's not a cheap thing. I know you can go places and go try it, but I know if you were to go appointments three times, four times a week, it would cost you way more money. You'd be way better off just buying one of their units. So I would recommend them. Excellent. Hey, check it out. We have a bunch of guides. They're all free. Guides that can help you train your arms, your legs, your calves, your core, teach you how to do hit training properly. Just go to mindpumpfree.com and download one of them or download all of them. 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