 Thank you for joining me as I sit down with Pastor David and Marie Rosales from Calvary Chapel Chino Valley as we discuss marriage Raising children and managing difficulties that arise in the family. We're ready to begin. So let's talk marriage So what would be the the wife's role in Focusing their marriage on the Holy Spirit Well, first of all, I think that we need to die to ourself completely, I mean because in marriage you that's part of What we need to do is to die to one another or not to die to one another but to die to ourselves and the marriage and If you want to live a pure life For the Lord you you you've got to allow the Holy Spirit to direct you and rely on the Holy Spirit that's and I may think that I'm right in one issue with my husband and I could be very adamant about it But where will that get me if we started if I start an argument That that would not edify our our marriage at all at all and I think it's really all about dying to ourselves. I really do and And allowing the spirit to direct us and there are times when we just have to keep our mouths shut And I think a lot of women don't they keep rambling on maybe to their husbands at times and There's times that we just need to be be quiet and and and go to the Lord in prayer Is that difficult at times? You know, I think it can't be it can't be but it's a good thing to go to the Lord in prayer because That's where we should be Doing doing that all the time any anyway John So I would say You know, my wife does Marie when we get in a disagreement and it seems like we try there can be times We one up each other that have to be right mentality Sometimes my wife will turn to me go I'm like, what are you doing? I'm biting my tongue because I don't want to say anything Just start something and so we practice that a lot in it, but it's difficult at times being able to Just bite our lip, you know and to bring glory and honor to the Lord. It could be a challenge But you know, I don't have to do it. I don't mean that that doesn't happen In our family now, but I think when I was younger Because because you're beginning to know their ways and you really don't know them until you get me I'm gonna start getting married and that's and then you become accustomed to things then I know what I'm How on my tone may may sound to him when I was younger didn't realize that you know, I maybe sounded a little bossy and Mmm-hmm Not any longer When I would do when Marie started sounding bossy like she said, you know, and of course That happens in every relationship, but I was more sensitive to that That was one of the my trigger those things would trigger me. I did not like that and I just didn't you know So yeah, so if Marie had a tone at all at first I'd look at her and I'd say are you sure you want to go there? You know, are you sure you want to go there? Because if you speak to me like that, I am gonna respond That's kind of how I was. I said I am gonna respond now if you want to go there. I'm more than willing But if you want to have a conversation Be very careful see so again, I came from an aggressive background I was very direct and now I don't but that's early days You know and I because I was we're trying to figure out how we're going to make this work what Marie did to Our blessing to our blessing is instead of saying who do you think you are which she did think that? She would think that She was she was in her mind. She told me that I did you know what I'm thinking She just wouldn't say anything because she she just who do you think you are but the wisdom of that in our case Was that I began to realize? There are better ways to say what I'm saying Because again, I came from a very aggressive background which was normal. It was normal to speak like that Marie came from a softer background So we learned we learned and so after all these years John I mean it's not that she and I have just one brain, you know We all we think the same and you know, we're different but what we've learned to do is we've learned to take our own personalities and submit them to our relationship and So I I I still can I still can say are you sure you want to go there? But it's not like it used to be and you look at me should go now I you know because it's we're not we're not gonna we're not gonna have a Discussion that's that's leading us to anything that could be Anger, we're not gonna go there, you know, so let's just deal with this. What is it? Okay? Sometimes mama doesn't want to hear it sometimes. I don't feel like hearing him So we learned right and so that but that that again goes under the umbrella of of wanting to you know Seek peace, you know, the Holy Spirit, you know the fruit of the Spirit, you know, I believe Christianity is very practical You're very practical You know, it what is the great commandment in the law Jesus some lawyer asked, right? And I love God with everything and love your neighbor as yourself, you know And some in some religious beliefs loving God with everything is their whole quest, right? So Jesus is now that's that you have to love God and John says how can you love God who is invisible whom you've not seen and You hate your brother whom you have seen so Christianity is practical, you know If I really love this invisible God whom I do not see What's the best way for me to demonstrate that I have a love for this invisible God? I'd loving people and who is the closest person in my circle of people my wife And so that's why Paul would be talking as part of why Paul would be saying, you know husbands love your wives because The wife is not commanded to love the husband the husband is commanded to love the wife and The wife shows her love by her respect for that man So that man Odyssey that is an incentive to be worthy of her respect Because he wants her love and so for me I made up my mind and I think every man ought to do this To be the man that she respects more than any other man on the planet and that sounds almost aggressively arrogant But no, I don't want her ever to to regard another man as being better than me or greater than me I don't that's my quest and I think I've succeeded, you know because for her They just shows you she doesn't you know have high standards But that's that's how it works John if you want to be lives Hero That's what you ought to be She ought to say there's not a man on this planet that is greater than my man You know there are that's a way you ought to be she ought to look at you and say he's the best dad He's the best husband. He's the best believer Now that's worthy now That's something that matters and that's what produces a legacy for your babies Because one day they'll say this is my dad And my dad loved my mom my dad loved us and my dad Especially loved his god If you have that what else do you need right practical, right? So it's just practical and our children know that yeah Oh, yeah, they the church knows that you know the church sees this Little fun food for thought for the couples who are watching You know there are some times and I want to come back and revisit this this will be just a fun portion of this With my wife and I there's things that I do that Bother her I'll leave the toothpaste cap off the toothpaste and she was like put the toothpaste cap back on or there might be just One little piece of toilet paper on the toilet paper ring and not changed out or there may be a little bit of milk left in the Jug, you know in the refrigerator. What were some of the things those kind of those funny quirks that would? Not upset you guys, but just like Wow, why why do that? You know, are there anything like that as you guys were getting to know each other or learn your marriage That's hard. That's really hard and I'll tell you two reasons why one it requires me to actually Have to retrieve a long Long history right and that you know because when we first got married, you know and first, you know I'll have to think about it, but to and This may not make sense John. It may not I grew up As a young man saying that the only thing I ever really want to talk about with my wife is how good she is And I don't talk about private things that may irritate me. I just don't so that's not something that I'm comfortable even addressing because I don't want people to think any less of her than than she is and and I'm very sincere about that and so I will play with her as you see sometimes from The pulpit I'll tease her as she's sitting in front of me I'll tease her But you're seen as a glimpse of my playfulness with my wife But I I don't want people to know anything about her that that in any way Makes her less than what she is. I I'm very private about that And so if you want to say something about me, that's fine No, it's okay. We can just remember I just think if I can even like to my parents my They would go back and forth not in like a upset way but little quirks that I noticed that would That would bother my dad or bother my mom and then I see some of those things Like for example, my my wife may leave a cup out because she's gonna refill it with water right away I put it away and then she's looking for it. Where's my cup? I put it away Yeah, I'm her helper. I call her. That's true. I will say that to her. I'll she'll say where's my and I'll go I'm helping Yeah So there's things like that that I find are interesting in marriage because it's You know in First Corinthians chapter 7 verse 3 Paul instructs the husband Let the husband render to his wife the affection due to her. What does that word? render refer to as And the husband has certain responsibilities and Paul is making it clear in first Corinthians chapter 7 that he's to fulfill certain responsibilities and Rendering is is basically just yielding to or giving to her giving her something. That is Another version speaks of Dubin Evelyn's, you know that he is surrendered to her proper affection and in its context at least through the Commentators that I've been influenced by it's referring to the physical relationship in the marriage and that it Gives us the insight that the woman his wife Has certain needs, you know emotional physical spiritual needs and part of her needs as a woman is a proper sense of beauty and the husband's desire and so he is to give to her what is necessary for her in a sexual fashion as Well as in the spiritual and the emotional there should be in other words a Unity of expression that he sees her as a complete person and sometimes a husband may not be Rendering to her the Dubin Evelyn's the things that are hers Including the the physical elements of marriage, you know the the sexual Pleasures that that that a woman rightly should have with her husband One of the things I would say that really affected the church for a long time was the The thought that physical pleasure in a marriage was actually immoral or or dirty You know, I can remember my mother told me that the first sin this is before she became a Christian This is when I was a little boy. She said well the first sin was sexual intercourse That's what my mom taught me so in my mom's way of thinking sexual intercourse was actually the first sin The Adam and Eve ever had which of course was not true and somewhere. She had been taught that Probably from one of my crazy aunts because I had some crazy aunts who really were Just really interesting and so mama taught me that and so I grew up With an improper attitude towards physical relationships. I didn't I didn't know the value of them in scripture I didn't know the purpose of them in the expression of I didn't know any of that And so I had to find that out through through practically applying the aspects of being a husband With the leading of the Holy Spirit to learn what tenderness is what to learn what cherishing is to learn what? What dying to self is things like that that that's all part of your your your physical relationship Because a lot of men See it is about themselves, you know achieve in a certain goal that they have to the Neglective their wife's needs and so you render into your wife do benevolence Because all context speaks about that that there if there is a time that there to be a part that it should be for Spiritual reasons to give yourself over to to prayer and then come again. He says together lest you be tempted So he's acknowledging the reality of physical need in that passage But the wife is actually being elevated in a place that that during that day People wouldn't even have understood which is Paul saying, you know that that's that woman has needs Just like you have needs and instead of you using her for your own pleasure You ought to render to her that which is due to her that this is an enjoyable experience Not simply the procreation though That's an aspect of it, but the unity and unifying of lovers You know the way Sangha Solomon speaks concerning the pleasures that you sat you're satisfied in at the proper time And so when Paula speaking and concerning that he's making it clear at least in that passage That sexual play sexual intercourse Is is is not immoral. It's only wrong When uh one when it's outside of marriage it is wrong always no matter how pleasurable it may be to those Participating it is wrong because it's not in the covenant of marriage and it's called fornication Or adultery, but it's also something that is is To be representative of true pure love You know with the purpose of enjoying each other Because god created us to fulfill one another and one another's needs And so we somehow made it dirty and yet I i've seen the um studies where It's been demonstrated that married couples Under the surveys at least that I've seen Express greater satisfaction in their physical relationships than the single couples do And there's a variety of obvious reasons for that, but You know you have a wife and therefore your wife is available to you Much of the time whereas if you're single and you're not living together and all of that well, they're going to be different levels of Friendship, but but when you have a good marriage it's going to include, you know The emotional is going to include the spiritual obviously And it will include the physical because it's all part of the package Because that's how god created us and so Again husbands are commanded To render dupe in evidence Meaning this is something not about you. This is something about you together And your wife deserves to be respected and to be loved not to be used Not to be experimented on Right because some men experiment on the way if they look at porn And before you know it they're trying to act out what they saw on that on that The pornography that they were watching or they talked to some Some trashy friend in a in a locker room and before you know what he's telling her because that's kind of Tell him how to do things. That's I at the age of 14 Uh, I heard that in in the high school gym the older boys were saying things that that's I I'd never heard some of the things that I can remember them saying But it sticks in your mind and you start thinking well, that's how you treat women When in fact, you know, my dad never spoke to me about that in his life My dad never spoke to me. That was one of those taboo private conversations He never said a thing to me So you kind of pick it up from your friends or whatever means is available And you end up growing up thinking that that physical Relationships are really about you. It's how you feel What you got away with and who you can tell later on That's kind of how it works And then you get married and you treat your wife like she's one of the girls you hooked up with at a bar And she's feeling used and dirty Because you're not respecting her and you're not caring about her And I learned a long time ago That that love making Actually begins in the morning when you wake up And you say good morning, baby. I love you and and it may be consummated later on Um through a physical act, but love making began long before you were involved in any any intimacy It began it began with just hi mama. I love you. That's all right. That's it. It's it's I think that john I think that much of what people characterizes as as His love is lost and it's just it's just using each other I really do And I think you're making a big mistake if you think that That having physical intimacy resulting in In satisfaction to yourself Is actually loving that woman with a false pretense. It's always unsatisfying. Yeah Because you was looking for more one anymore. What about pastor because you're mentioning that For the person that says well, you know, I just don't feel like it Whether it's the husband having that attitude Whether it's rendering the physical the spiritual or the emotional aspect of the relationship I don't feel like treating her nicer. I don't feel like You know when the woman says I don't feel like having intercourse, you know, or whatever, you know Um as a woman, I'm sure Marie could add and she has she is in the past She has made statements that to the ladies that I think is very beneficial for them You know, but you know from a male perspective There are men who as as young men will say They have the capacity to express themselves in certain ways But they choose not to because they just don't feel like it, you know There are men like that, but normally there's something underlying that normally there's something some issue They're dealing with, you know fear of intimacy fear of you name it, you know Those guys probably should have a brother that they visit with and have a little heart to heart and start asking the Lord Why is it that I'm this way that I can't really go into, you know But um, I think that we all do things we don't really want to and it could be even the most mundane things I've shared this before where um You know, you couldn't really have paid me though. I did get paid to do this once I had to was my job description But in fact, you really can't pay me to clean up vomit You can't can you you know, hey, I'm a write down an application. I'd like to be the vomit cleaner, right? I mean you don't do that, right? Um, it has to be either chunky vomit or well, let's not get So with that with that, um But you have babies And those babies get sick And what I wouldn't do for money I did for love You know, I made a choice to go and and and not to say that I was no Marie was a Great attentive mother great attentive grandmother. No, I it wasn't like I had to push her out of the way You know or anything. I've got no But I did but I did clean the babies I would change the diapers when when when needs to be done needs to be done I didn't see this woman's work or man's work. It it's something that needs to be done But if you to ask me, do you ever want to clean up? Diaper or do you ever want to clean up? You know beds that have been messed up because the baby's sick and vomit, you know Do you want to do that? No, of course not. Then why did you do it? Why do you do that because you love there are things you do out of love That you could never get paid to do it's a great illustration You know, it's true and and so yeah, and and I think that sometimes if a husband's tired, you know, but the wife is saying Honey, I'd like to be intimate. I feel I need your arms around me or whatever she might say He may not feel like it But if he's able and and she wants him I think I think he he owes her due benevolence I do and the the opposite obviously is true That's great insight because again the rendering Is more it's multifaceted, right? It means the affection the physical the spiritual the emotional And again, it's one of those things where you guys mentioned dying to ourselves in order to render is so important And I meet with couples and I see that A key thing that you know, I'm not going to do that or I'm going to hold out because and it's almost like a One up on each other. Yeah, they punish. Yeah, it's a punishment thing And it's sad because you see that going on and it's that's not what marriage was designed for It was designed for one another under the Covering that's why I was asking about the cluttering the things that can really clutter our marriages And I think of a garage that's cluttered, you know, and you can't get through it So many boxes and so many things. I've been accumulated over years That can clutter our marriages and and And children do Yeah, you know children do and I don't think it's an ugly clutter by any means But children most definitely do and and I had to I had to deal with that, you know, I was taught in in college when I was taking my courses And I think we may have had a current already, you know, but I was taught in in my class. They said Husband they said fathers will get jealous And they get jealous of the child and I and I theoretically, you know prior to having the baby Theoretically, I said, how is that possible? Really? Come on That's my baby. Why would I be jealous? I thought the same thing, right? And then then she shows more attention to the child. She doesn't have attention to you You know, you feel kind of left out of her Her her life, you know, the baby's got more time with the mother than I do And I I started realizing that's true. So there has to be Prioritizing there has to be conversation. There has to be Baby doll, I feel like we need to get away just you and me. I don't want Marie and I did not go out on a date um When Corinne was born until she was probably six months old Probably we were in the house for six months And and doing nothing, you know, I would to school I guess and and and all I and work and and John I went crazy and I really did and I told Marie I said um We got to get out of this house. And so we finally I think Corinne was about six months old You'll remember as I say this Robert your brother babysitter And so we went off to a restaurant maybe 20 minutes or so away from where we uh lived And Robert my brother-in-law You know took care of Corinne. I still remember Marie and me at a restaurant Looking at each other after we finished We I don't even know if we're yet finished with the meal and I said I missed my baby. How about you? She says yeah, I said let's get out of here. So we And rushed to go get our baby, you know, so we had to actually learn To make time for each other and I had to learn To let a mama be a mama Let this woman love her babies because it's only a blessing for them and for us Instead of being jealous and possessive. We've got to take a week and you your mother can watch the babies We never did that We never did that why? Because we valued them, you know, and they made us who we are and we just never had that we still do this day You know, when the kids were small You know, we would say, you know, you got a 20 minute rule You can only stay 20 minutes from us So that uh, you know, and it was my rule for them But I've imposed that on myself now that my children are older and I've told maria say we can't we can't live 20 minutes more than 20 minutes away from them Because I want to see my my babies, of course, but we want to see our our grand babies, you know, and so That's all a matter of decisions. It's all a matter of prioritizing And children can clutter you and if you if you don't so marie and I Now I mean our babies don't live with us anymore You know, we will get coffee pretty much every day. We spend time with each other all the time and And uh, there's there's a there's a song by boss scags Call we're we're all alone, you know, it's one of my songs with marie because I understand this just us kind of thing because Because to me that's that's what I want but We've got to have room for the babies now But when you're young you have to prioritize you have to make room for each other you even if it's even if it's um When the babies go to bed and you you know, you sit there for a half hour an hour And visit, you know or it even when you go to bed and And just before you go to sleep, you just have that pillow talk Where you just say baby, how was your day? How things, you know, you got to do that Every day and that's what marie and marie and I have done For a long time because if you're not mindful of that not only will it Create clutter or create distance. Absolutely. And then if you get that roommate syndrome mentality, you know, you become a brother and a sister Yeah, yeah And uh, when that happens Be careful Well, there'll be somebody out there who's who's drawing your attention. We'll just put it that way There always is I've I've I've always been aware with that with marie You know and uh that that and I got the lord taught me that I mean I I can say it as the lord taught me that He said to me if you don't show her attention Somebody else will There's always that that jody. We called him and jody in the army You know jody's got your girl and gone You know or the sancho, you know, I think in in the marine corps or sancho, but we had jody and Jody's got your girl, you know, there's always a guy looking at your girl this guy before marie and I got married I had we broke up We broke up, you know, I took my engagement ring back. I took her ring back. I said man, I feel too much pressure Uh, I'm not ready to get married I said I'm not ready so You know, I cried I took the ring back. I said marie I I I'll give it to you When we get married, but I'm not going to have this waiting because I'm not ready. My mind's not ready. She hands me the ring I remember crying in the parking lot there at where she was living and I felt horrible John. I felt so bad But marie smart Because Within a week within a week She's talking to me and she says, you know this guy There's this um, there's this um sandwich shop there by where I work I said oh and she goes. Yeah, I said and she says She says, yeah, I went there to eat lunch with some of the girls and I said really she goes. Yeah And she says there's a guy that I noticed I don't have an engagement ring on anymore and asked me if I'd Um, no longer engaged. I said really and she goes. Yeah Yeah, I say showing interest in you, huh, you know, and I'm acting like it doesn't matter I said she goes. Yes. I guess he is and so the next day I took her to lunch Same place at the place And I stood there staring at him, right? Yeah, I stood there staring at him like I'm still in the picture Yeah, I'll never forget that. Wow and about what honey about a week later. We were married It wasn't more than a couple weeks What a couple weeks That's good strategy. You know what she was doing She just she just poked me in the right place Oh, wow Oh, that's that's true story. That's a true story. Yeah, that's interesting. Wow That's uh, that's a funny story though. You know, she's there getting her sandwich and I was Had my arms folded. I just looking at this guy Meet your dead meat What was his response? He wouldn't look at me He wouldn't look at me. I I remember just looking at him But I'm no I'm no I'm no fighter. God knows that but this is mine And you're not going to tell you You're not going to have this That's stupid. Oh, that's that's a true story. Yeah, it is So you guys have given us practical practical things about guarding against cluttering The things that can clutter our marriage and so I'm thankful that you're able to keep us Keep it in a practical sense where we want to continue to allow the Holy Spirit To land in our marriages and so I want to thank you for being transparent and thank you for really Giving us some great insight. And so thank you guys so much. Amen. Yeah. God bless you guys Thanks again for tuning in Let's talk marriage is a ministry of Calvary Chapel Chino Valley If you enjoyed this video, then please like and share it We will see you again next week on another episode of let's talk marriage