 Dominic Raab is Britain's new Secretary of State for Justice. That means he should have a key role in rebuilding trust in the justice system after the horrific murder of Sarah Everard and England's appalling statistics for rape convictions. Unfortunately, reassurance is something a recent interview Raab gave to the BBC will not provide. Let's take a look. Just want to start with something that we heard the Prime Minister say on this program yesterday. He said speaking to us live on breakfast yesterday, he does not support calls to make misogyny a hate crime. What's your view on that? Well look, I think we have often seen in the criminal justice system over decades people trying to legislate away what is an enforcement problem. So I think insults and misogyny is of course absolutely wrong whether it's a man against a woman or a woman against a man, but I don't think that will tackle the problem in the cases like either the Sarah Everard case, which is very serious and we take very seriously, or the wider challenge of getting more prosecutions through to a successful conviction for violence against women and girls. So I understand why people raise it. It's a legitimate issue and debate to have, but I don't think that will solve the problem that we've got or indeed give confidence to the many women who after the Sarah Everard case, I think are very fearful, anxious, need positive reassurance and need the kind of action that will fix the problem. In that clip, in response to being asked whether misogyny should be made a hate crime, Raab answers, misogyny is absolutely wrong whether it's a man against a woman or a woman against a man. The host of that clip gave Raab an opportunity to clarify his comment. She also reads to him the definition of misogyny. We can get this up for you now. So misogyny means the dislike of contempt for or ingrained prejudice against women. Raab, in response, refused to retract his statement. Now, that makes it clear this wasn't just an accident. This seems to be something Raab believes that the definition of misogyny is wrong or should be ignored. This might be for ideological reasons because ingrained prejudice, which is specifically targeted at women, is something Raab refuses to recognize exists. In 2011, he said, from the cradle to the grave, men are getting a raw deal. Feminists are now amongst the most obnoxious bigots. You can imagine why he now has this very strange definition of misogyny. Those comments I've just read to you were put to Raab in 2019 during his campaign to become Tory leader. I've got a track record in my working career of standing up for women's rights. As a trainee lawyer, I took a case to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg defending women's rights and as a war crimes international lawyer trying to bring people to justice for the very worst crimes against women on the battlefield. Do you stand by that comment though that some feminists are obnoxious bigots? Well, the point I was making is that I think sexism is wrong and it's wrong whether it's said about a woman or about a man. I think equality is too precious a value for us to put up with double standards. So, I do think we should call hypocrisy out in political debate and political life. Would you describe yourself as a feminist? No, probably not. But I would describe myself as someone who's a champion of equality and meritocracy and my wife and I are two salary couple. I support her as much as she supports me and I'm all for working women, making the very best of their potential and that's something that's really important to me. Are you a feminist? No, but I'm all for working women. What decade is this guy living in? What century is this guy living in? Sounds like kind of a woke guy from the 1950s. Oh, no, I'm not a feminist but I'm in favour of women having jobs. What did you make of Rob's comments both this morning and those historic ones? I mean, it's out of line with my definition of feminism. I'm all for women having a nice time rather than having a job. But I mean, he's an immensely creepy man. I don't have to listen to what he said in order to understand that he has absolutely no regard for the things that actually no regard, no understanding of the notion that when you have systemic inequality you have to implement measures that are specifically to remedy that inequality and that the society that we live in is not gender neutral. But when you look at the things that he's done, not only has this man tried to scrap the gender pay audit multiple times, he's also been a vocal opposer of the Human Rights Act, which is incredibly ironic given that he was using his experience in the European Court of Human Rights as an example of how pro-feminist he is. I'm using an example of his experience there as a trainee lawyer. The Human Rights Act has been an essential legislative and political tool used by feminists in this country in order to do things like get greater rights for elderly women in care homes in order to make cases against violence against women and girls. It's been an incredibly important tool. But I also think there's something very important about what he said, which isn't just this idea of, you know, oh, you know, not really understanding what misogyny is, but also this very particular kind of slant of, you know, which it feels like the kind of soft edge of sort of men's rights activism in cell sort of Jordan Peterson style discourse, which essentially positions feminism and in turn women gaining greater economic and political and social rights as being the reason that as being something that is dispossessing and disaffecting young men, which as we know when it's taken to its extreme end has very, very violent horrific consequences. And so the positioning of feminism and women's rights in opposition to two men in this way, it speaks rather than, you know, disaffection and disillusionment amongst young men probably is a result of the fact that we live in an incredibly alienating world with horrific mental health services. And I think that Rob occupying the soft edge of this is really, really scary to me because we know that there is a generation of young disaffected men who are being radicalized, particularly online by these kinds of talking points. And when you see, even though it's perhaps the softer edge of it, when you see, you know, him talking about feminists being obnoxious bigots, you are seeing a justification and a sort of dog whistle towards a sort of political movement that is happening underground that is gaining increasing power and is incredibly concerning. I think in a way the way you framed it isn't as concerned as we should be because you sort of said, yeah, this is this is the soft edge of men's rights activism, right, from the cradle to the grave men are getting a raw deal is he's not like the most extreme incel out there. But at the same time, he is in charge of our justice system. So so being being at the soft edge of men's rights activism isn't much of a consolation if he's literally in charge of the justice system. And I said, you know, I shouldn't actually laugh about this because our justice system is, you know, shockingly appalling to women and especially women who are subject to sexual violence. How much harm do you think he can do in that position? What he says in public, what he says, you know, on TV is going to be a very, very pale imitation of what he actually believes behind closed doors. What we saw there, which was quite horrifying, was a kind of polished media version of what he really thinks. And that's why I thought it was really important to bring up how this ideology, which, you know, is, is takes on this myth. It's essentially like a feminism is cancer, but like buttoned up in a suit and talk and saying it on, you know, ITV news, that that is actually making its way into his political positions, which, as you have noted, are going to have a massive impact on women's lives. It's one thing for, you know, someone to scream and extremist things into the void of the internet. It's another thing for someone who, you know, we don't know what his personal beliefs behind closed doors are, but they're probably worse than they are than what he's said publicly being how holding the reins of power. And we see this in things like, you know, opposition to the Human Rights Act, which is going to make it much more difficult for feminists and women's specific groups to, you know, and gender justice groups to push for the kinds of changes that we need in order to make the world in, well, to make this country, at least a more equitable place for women and gender minorities.