 American Finding His Way here on Think Tech. I'm Jay Fidel and joining us Tim Appichella, Stephanie Dalton, Cynthia Sinclair, Winston Welch for our regular discussion about American Finding His Way. Today, we're going to focus on Congress. We're going to ask whether Congress is failing in its duty. Democracy requires the checks and balances in the Constitution, and all three branches have to be functional because they check and balance each other. So let's talk about what is going on in Congress vis-à-vis its own protection. It failed in the run-up to January 6th. We know that there was intelligence and nobody acted on it. And then we had a right, a destructive murderous right, which has never really been resolved. And you can say that the Department of Justice is prosecuting, but we have yet to see anyone really get prosecuted. It's just a question of making it public or what. And then more recently in hearings on this, and Amy Klobuchar was involved, we saw that, it popped out from General Walker, the National Guard General in Washington, that those guys are ready to go to the Capitol hours after before they got the permission to go to the Capitol. They've been told not to go to the Capitol without permission day before, either Joint Chiefs, I find that very interesting. Joint Chiefs knew enough to warn them not to go to the Capitol the day before. So they're waiting for permission on January 6th. They don't get permission for two, three hours. They're ready to go. They're in the buses ready to get right down there and defend the Capitol, but no permission. And just one more thing to add is that right now, the Capitol, I guess it's the police force and maybe the committee that's involved, the dysfunctional committee, if you read about that, has asked to extend the time of the National Guard in Washington DC to protect the Capitol, especially today, because today there's supposed to be a counter inauguration. And the Joint Chiefs has not responded to that either. They got a problem with communication. Command control, or is it much worse with Mike Flynn's brother there? So Tim, what is going on? If we can't protect the Capitol, what good is it? I think that's a very good question, Jay, and they are protecting the Capitol. They just didn't protect the Capitol on January the 6th, which is now almost 60 days from where that was. I just think it's gonna take more time for investigations to take place. I think we're gonna know more. I think we're gonna find out there was a breadcrumb trail from the Desire for General, what's his name? From Washington DC, National Guard. Clark, Wagner, Warner, Clark, something, yeah. Yeah, so I think you're gonna see a breadcrumb trail from the instructions for him not to move. I think he wanted to move around 1.58 p.m. He didn't get there until 5 p.m. So there was a three hour and nine minute difference according to his testimony. And I think you're gonna find as time goes on, you're gonna find names and communications somewhere in the Pentagon that will support the theory that there were forces at hand to try to prevent the National Guard from backing up the Washington DC police. And I can't wait for that to happen because it'll be a part of history. And from that, there's a basis to possibly look at criminal charges for those involved. Yes, sir. You know, one thing of interest is their excuse, the Joint Chief's excuse, including that committee in which Mike Flynn's brother, the general, was on that committee. They said they didn't like the optics of having optics, quote optics, having the National Guard come to the Capitol. And this was hours after the Capitol was being ransacked, by the way. Do you accept that? Is that logical for you, Tim? Absolutely not. That sounds like one of the senators in Congress coming up with reasons why they won't support a bill. I mean, they just pull it out of the thin air and that's their explanation. It's ridiculous. The Capitol was under attack. And they knew that they had enough information from the FBI, they had their intelligence. They knew this was gonna take place. I go to my comment yesterday why Donald Trump didn't intercede for hours with to support the Washington DC police. Why didn't he intercede? Well, he didn't want them, he didn't want them blunting the invasion force. He wanted them to get in there. He was at home with his television set, reveling in the festivities. Of course he was. But you know, from a logic point of view, just looking at this logically. So there's a two or three hour delay, which could have saved the Capitol. Honestly, it could have. And it could have saved the Capitol Police too. And there's a delay and you know, this is the 21st century. They all knew what was going on. All they had to do was turn on a television or even their cell phone. And they would have known exactly what was going on out there. And they don't do anything. They do not respond, you know, which is actually more troubling than anything else. And that the general in the National Guards, they would answer me. We were begging them and they weren't answering it. It was very interesting revealing testimony. They wouldn't answer me. So, you know, what do you make of that? It means that somebody was telling them not to answer. And the reason they've advanced so far is a funny reason. So, you know, to me, I draw the line to Trump or a Trump supporter in that committee and the Joint Chiefs makes you wonder about the military. Well, remember Donald Trump appointed new personnel to the Pentagon within the last month and a half of his presidency. They weren't there just because they were loyal followers of Trump. They weren't necessarily qualified for those positions but that's why he pointed them. So, you know, start there and work your way back. Yeah, I hope we find out. Amy Klobuchar is doing a good job. She's talking to the public about it. So, Stephanie, you know, if I feel hesitant into my own reading skills and I decide that I cannot read the English language very well although I've been elected to office to read bills all day and I tell you gee whiz, could you please have the clerk read me 700 pages before we ever get down to dealing with the Senate, to dealing with the COVID relief bill? What do you think about that? That is an amazing question, Jay. I think the same way I think about all of what the Congress has been involved in. It's just making more messes. This is the Trump, since two years old, this is the Trump gig. Make as much a mess of anything that you can. Create chaos, do damage as much as you can. So, that's what they're trying to do. They tried to do that on January the sixth because if we go one step forward, what about if they had said, you know, that Arizona and Georgia and their votes were not accepted? Then what? Okay, then we would have another mess, which is the happiness for Trump. There he is with this big pile of crazy. And then we go to the Supreme Court and it just goes on. So, now same thing, all of these people that, as you say, are still linked in with him are continuing his two year old gig that he has mastered over 73 years. So, I just think it's more of the same and they're mimicking him and it's to their, it's to their eternal disparagement, these people that are doing that. What about the rule that permits any senator to stand up and request a reading of the bill? Here in the year 2021, how do you feel about that? Should that be a rule of the best, highest deliberative body in the land? Or is that a phony baloney rule? It's clear as it can be that it's completely useless and just to interrupt. And I guess I'd rather hear green eggs and hamdons and shorter, but I think that, yeah, it is a phony baloney. So, why do they have it? Whatever would have been the original purpose of having that in there? And why don't they repeal it right now today? So, I just wanna point out too that this is gonna go on, one of the reasons I think, as we all know, we've heard so much about it, including from Mary Trump, but as you think about the Congress and its constitution now and their wins in the election, Trump is the only person that lost of all of these people. I may be wrong, I haven't gone over every single, I'm sure there were a couple that didn't make it, but this is the final blow that I know he can't absorb this, but he is the only one that lost and all the rest that they made gains in the House, they barely, they could have had the Senate, thank God it turned out as it did. I just wanna point that out because he's up against some really horrible reality that he can't go to, he'll never go to that. Well, it's like the pathological kid, he's unhappy about something, so he burns the house down. That's the truth. That's pathology. Cynthia, let's go to you. Let's talk about the filibuster rule. This also binds the Senate and ultimately binds legislation coming out of Congress. It's old, it's been around for a long time. Do you see it as a positive anyway? Is there any redeeming feature about it? What should happen with the filibuster rule? Well, I think there may be a redeeming feature to it as in it's really set in place to ensure bipartisan workings in Congress. Unfortunately, we are so far away from that that all it does right now is tie the hands of whoever it is that's not in. So it's like you can't get anything done and it will completely stop everything that Biden tries to do in its tracks right now. So I don't know why they haven't gotten rid of it yet. I'm still, I don't understand that one. I understand they couldn't get rid of it for the impeachment, has to be two thirds of the Senate, all that stuff, two thirds of the Senate present. But this one, I don't understand. It doesn't make any sense to me that we are still even talking about it. Why hasn't Chuck Schumer gotten rid of it already? Why is it even still there? You know that if the other things were switched on the other side, the Republicans would get rid of it in an heartbeat. They would change everything. They would move heaven and earth to get their way. So I believe that they have shown their true colors fully well and we cannot count on them when we got a handful of them that were bold enough to come out in the impeachment, but even they are starting to kind of walk back their talk about the impeachment even. So I don't trust Republicans to come around and I think that Biden is wrong to drag his feet on getting rid of that filibuster. He's got two years and he can get a lot done but not if he keeps going, well, let's see if they'll be nice. They're not gonna be nice. We already know who they are. They have shown their true colors and I think it's time to stop wasting time and get busy getting stuff done for this country without being in charge, the Republican. So Winston, it's really important that Biden after a non-transition transition should get going here. And yet in his main initiative, we got through the House okay with resistance from the Republicans, but now it's in the Senate and thank goodness that Schumer is the leader of the Senate, but my goodness, there's so many ways the Republicans can delay that and they are delaying it in every way possible. Even though what they're doing hurts, visibly hurts their own constituents, it's quite remarkable, but at the end of the day, it seems like every legislative initiative as opposed to proclamations that a president can issue, which is always reversible, it seems to me that Biden is not gonna be able to get through his initiatives, including the COVID, including the voting rights bill, including, you name it, gun control, and on and on and on, immigration, all his initial infrastructure, he's not gonna be able to get it through. Why? I like your opinion on this because the Republicans don't want him to succeed at anything. They're all winding up to criticize him as Trump is already doing and beat him in the 2022-2024 election. So this is a problem. Do you agree it's a problem? Do you, I like your thoughts about how broad and serious a problem it is and what we can do about it. Well, it is a problem, but I think we can expect normal partisan behavior, but as Cynthia was saying, we're beyond normal partisan times. This is tribalistic. These folks should be Americans first and say, what do we need for the country? Like you said, the constituents there, they're not serving their constituents, but their constituents are not connecting the pieces of the puzzle. I thought it was particularly sad that Mitch McConnell came out and said, there is zero question that Donald Trump was culpable for the January, it was the sixth, is that our date, insurrection, zero doubt. And then what, a week or two weeks ago, he was saying, but I'll support him for the next presidential run if he wins. That was beyond sad. It was devastating for America. When you have a man who has said, this man is actively trying to overthrow our system of government and indeed, his own life was at risk. If they were going after Mike Pence, would they not go after Mitch McConnell who had very well been on Donald Trump's target list for years, the front line has come out with something a couple of few weeks ago, I suggest people check it out. It was a synopsis of the last four years. It was just devastating on how the takeover of our government happened slowly, drip by drip. And they condensed each month into about 10 seconds, but for the astute or even casual observer, you can see the pattern over time. Look, Jay, this idea about getting rid of the filibuster, look, Cynthia says, it was there for a reason to have bipartisan support on bills and to make sure that people were on the same foot. That's assuming that people, that they're not going into this weird, cultish behavior, slavishly devoted to one man with no ideals or principles. If there was something there, if there was something in the something sandwich, that would make a difference. If they were fighting for some principles, but they're not. And it's just craven political power, that doesn't work. And so, however, I remember when Harry Reid got rid of something in the Senate, and I thought, oh, the Democrats will ruin the day when that comes back. But at this point, when we're faced with the existential threat of our nation existing, it may be time to get rid of the filibuster so that they can act meaningful voter reform, meaningful reform across the channels, because otherwise you're looking at things, there've been 250 bills put in to local state houses to restrict voting, when you have such gerrymandering, it's, the Republicans realize that they are very, that they will, they could very easily get back and take power again. I mean, they're one person away, basically, right now. And so, you know, as much as I would say, keep that safeguard in place, it's part of the rails there. Right now, the rails aren't, the system. But what I don't understand, that what a lot of Americans don't understand is why, after the Democrats made such a big thing about the two senators in Georgia, and why, you know, you got email every day asking for money, and why, you know, we worked so hard in order to achieve majorities in both houses of Congress, why the Democrats are having such a problem in moving anything ahead in Congress. You know, I mean, this latches onto the whole thing about whether Congress, and for that matter, the system in Congress, and for that matter, especially the system in the Senate, is dysfunctional. Why can't a party that has had majorities that does have majorities in both houses do anything? It's the cultist devotion to one man, and not the devotion, it's fear of him. And so, they're afraid, and instead of doing their jobs, they're worried about not having a job, and you know, these folks can go out and get jobs in the corporate world very easily. They've been senators. But they have a majority in both houses. Why can't they do anything? The extra 10 people who will vote on principle about something, and if you just said the Republicans decide on principle what was good and right for their constituents, you'd easily have these numbers crossing over. They're not gonna like everything in the bill. No one ever does, but it's about compromise. It's about relief to the states and the cities, and tens of millions of people facing hunger in this nation and being evicted in. There's so many, there's so many initiatives, just like it's not only the COVID bill, but it's a lot of other legislation. You did mention about Joe Biden and ruling by executive order. You know what? That's the way it's gotta be done. He has an enormous amount of power. We've been seeing the office of the executive over the last couple of decades become much more so over time. I don't think it's a really helpful thing. You know what, Fred Winston, that goes for the proposition that he has to do that, and the reason he has to do that is because Congress is dysfunctional. So he has to do it now, and even if it's temporary, if he needs to do that, and whatever he can do, he needs to do, because he's been empowered with that, just like Donald Trump was. It's too bad though, because it tells you that checks and balances and our system of government with three branches isn't working. So Tim, you know what's really important in Congress is the members, you know? Whether they're Democrat or Republican, they're elected by the people. And you know, that's gotta account for something, but we have such problems now because the Republicans have taken it on themselves to do gerrymandering, voter suppression, the most hideous things possible in the face of a democracy that relies on the popular vote. It relies on the popular vote for all these, you know, congressmen. And what is happening now, what began to happen around the same time as March 6th, is we've had Republicans in various states push through bills in the state capitals, suppressing votes, votes that affect the election of people who go to Congress. So they're pulling the wings out of Congress in the States. And, you know, a couple of days ago, the Supreme Court, and, you know, to her credit, our newest justice there voted in favor of voting rights. But, you know, how confident are you that the federal court system, which is populated largely by Trump appointees, and he appointed hundreds of them during his time, and the Supreme Court, which has, you know, three judges he appointed, that they will continue to uphold, you know, the right to vote. How confident are you? As confident as I didn't know how it was gonna go with the court cases of election rigging, you know, that Donald Trump and his supporters brought to the Supreme Court and to the federal courts and to the federal judge's credit and to the Supreme Court's credit, they came down on the side of the democracy. The fact that there wasn't evidence that you can't just yell fraud and not have an evidence for fraud. And so, when you look at these laws that are passing, I mean, it's pretty obvious that they're steep to do one thing and one thing only, and that's to discourage people from coming out to vote. I forget what state it was, but you had someone testify in a court hearing that if he allowed mail-in ballots, that would be advantageous for the Democrats and there's no way Republicans would win. You don't say that. That was in that Supreme Court argument a couple of days ago. I don't think you say that in front of a judge, you know, but he did. And so I think at some point you passed a giggle test on this and you ruled that, which is obvious. And so I do have confidence that the federal judges or the Supreme Court will come down on something that looks overtly a process to disenfranchise voters. A lot of litigation is gonna happen. A lot of litigation. I agree. These bills are gonna go into 50 states. Some of them will get passed. They'll have to be countervailing political interests that challenge those bills and have the funds and political will take them up to the Supreme Court. And then of course they'll be met with resistance, those suits. And so we'll have a battle, a whole national battle over voting. The national bill needs to be put out. You know, I think the House just passed it this morning. And I know it's gonna have a rough and tumble time in the Senate, but there needs to be some guidelines on a national level that will discourage the states from coming up with these ridiculous little, you know, laws that they're trying to do again to discourage voters. Yeah, they could do it. They could do it. The Congress could do it. Yes. So let me ask the second half of my question to you. How confident are you that the Congress will do it? Well, it takes one vote and that's, you know, Joe Manchin needs to probably get in line. And so you have a 50-50 and then Kamala Harris, Vice President Harris will come in and break the tie. So yes, I am confident it could happen, depending on if anyone defects from the Democrat side. Yeah, it's scary. It's scary. Because Congress will be all the less functional if these bills start taking a toll in the 20-22 or 20-22. Executive orders won't win the day on this. No, no, they can't reach that far. Right. Stephanie, you know, we've been finding out that what was going on in the Department of Justice in the last days of the Trump administration was really unholy. And the cases were being buried, cases against Trump and his friends were being buried by lawyers who swore to uphold the Constitution in the Department of Justice, the senior law enforcement organization in the country. And we don't even know all of the incidents where this took place in the Department of Justice. It may take some time for us to find out. I think one of the most interesting ones is the story of Elaine Chao, who was the Secretary of Transportation and the wife of a friend, Mitch McConnell, and who is the daughter of a shipping magnate in China, building ships in China and the sister of another Chao, who runs a huge shipping organization. And that somehow got buried. It's now coming up again. The question is, can we clean this up? What will it take to clean this up? How do you clean it up? And Merritt Garland has not yet been confirmed. Yeah. We're still waiting on pins and needles over that. I'm astounded that Elaine Chao has been under the radar for all this time. It popped up a couple of two years ago about her ill doings. And finally, one senator from, was he from Oregon? The senator from Oregon insisted on an IG investigation of Elaine Chao because that rich father, I mean, this is a crazy rich Asian movie, kinda rich. And she was doing all kinds of things for him out of her office. And there were all kinds of missteps. He finally got IG to take it on and they just closed the case the other day, today or yesterday, that they didn't see anything that was at the level of criminal. So she kept all of that, all of that sidestepping and horsing around for him, for the dad and the family and trips to China and Mitch going along too, got all that under the radar. Don't forget Mitch got a $25 million birthday gift this past year. And so she's been, she sneaked out of her role early. I think one of the reasons she went out early is because she knew this IG investigation was going on. But the senators very disappointed that it came, that they've closed it and didn't find anything. But they did the investigation. So I'm grateful for that. But that has been very weird that they have been able to act that out and nobody paid any attention to it at all. My other concern relating to the most wonderful topic that you brought up, you and Tim talking about these judges. Yes, all during those cases, Tim mentioned where he was satisfied that they were doing their duty according to the principles of law and right, wrong and the other guiding principles. I want, I challenge that Washington Post and New York Times to start tracking these people, these judges. Yes, they got us through, oh, it's all a fraud. They did all that right. But they're like you said, hundreds of them out there most very inexperienced and incompetent because they're babies and they're gonna be there forever. So who's checking just like the list of lies? Can we check on who's these judges are and how they're ruling? And so far it looks like the records clean, but what's gonna happen going forward? Well, you're right. We have to look at them, we have to watch them, we have to report on them. And if they do things that are shameful, we should call them out on it. We should shame them. There's no reason why we can't shame them. And even for incompetence, Jay, because lots of these people got pushed through, they had nothing, but I guess the 4.0 or so, or they were okay with the bar, the ABA and the other people that and those others that approved them. There are some don't feel that the bar did much of a job on those judges. Let me move to Cynthia. And one of the things we should discuss is the other bills. This is an extension of what I asked you before. There are so many initiatives. There were so many problems. There were so many things that have to be cleaned up and rolled back that happened in the Trump administration. Yes, it was chaos for four years. And things were being destroyed. The government was being destroyed in the four years. So here we are in the house, which has some clarity under Nancy Pelosi and in the Senate, which doesn't seem to have as much clarity. And they move so slowly and they get involved in these rules we talked about. And the Republicans have no interest in moving ahead anything that Biden comes up with and they have no agenda or platform themselves. Their only platform is to stop him. That's their platform. And win next time, you know, achieving power. And so the question is, can they do anything on all these other initiatives? I'm naming only a few, immigration, infrastructure, social security, gee whiz, what else? I know I'm healthcare in general. There's so many things that we need to attend to. Why? Because we're in the 21st century. Things move fast. Technology is another one. We haven't addressed it. And it seems to me, while they've, you know, fritter away the days they have today on dealing with what Trump did, they don't have time left. And the process is so cumbersome, they'll never get through these issues. How confident are you that this Congress will be able to do anything in the next two years? I wish I could say I was really confident, but unfortunately I'm not. I was extremely upset with Nancy Pelosi for putting into the COVID bill some rail structure for San Francisco. That made me mad. Cause I'm thinking, wait a minute. Now, here we are talking about these, you know, not these ne'er-do-well Republicans that don't have any, you know, integrity. Yet, where's the integrity in trying to put in a COVID bill some sort of rail project? So that alone right there made me go, that's a Democrat shooting themselves in the foot. And I see that over and over and that's why I don't have a lot of confidence. And I see them watch the Republicans. Now, Mitch McConnell got rid of that filibuster in five seconds flat. Didn't even take him two seconds. Everything that they were able to get away with doing was because of that. Now, why are we waiting? And I also see the Republicans playing the long game, right? Their state houses are full of Republicans now because they've been playing the long game. They've been looking at this from scratch out. And I feel like the Democrats are looking at it from up here back. And so it doesn't go forward as much as I would like it to. I would like to see Democrats having absolutely pristine integrity because after what the Republicans have done, the only way to call them out for it is to have that kind of integrity. And Nancy Pelosi in my mind just threw that out the window when she wanted her rail project. So that kind of stuff is what makes me go, I can we really count on these guys to do the right thing? All of them. So we know the Republicans probably won't can we count on the Democrats to do the right thing? So Manchin's getting a lot of heat for complaining about that part of the bill. I'm sorry, I think he was right to complain about it. I don't think it should have been in there. This is for COVID relief, not rail projects. And that's basically what he said. So I agree that we all, they need to all be on the same page. All the Democrats need to stay together and be in line together. But I think if one of them's not acting right, they need to be called out. I wanna see the Democrats. Okay, well, I don't know. There are those who disagree and I wonder how Winston feels about this. Wouldn't it be better Winston if the Democrats could get together on things? The Republicans are together pretty much on stage. The Democrats are not. They shoot themselves in the foot and now they're involved in the attacks on Cuomo and on the California governor and it's fragmented. The Democrats are fragmented. Now you can say, well, that's the way of democracy. That's what, what was his name? No, that's the nature of democracy that you have all this discussion and argument and whatnot. But where in crisis? Our government is in crisis. The future of our country is in crisis. Wouldn't it be better if the Democrats simply bury these little issues and got along to participate in what amounts to be a civil political war which is being waged right now? Wouldn't it be better if they got together? It's nice when you have one Uber commander who can tell his troops what to do and how to do it but we've seen that that doesn't really work out well in the end and we've got a few nation state examples of that and yeah. So no, and I agree with Cynthia. Like the Democrats have to realize, okay, if they're not gonna win back the hearts and minds of true believers on the other side but there's those people that are like, I don't like the shenanigans that are going on on either side and the problem is that when they turn on Fox News or it's on already because someone else turned it on in their house or one America, then they hear about these things and they hear about the pork that goes in and of course there's going to be pork going in because that's the way the system's been built for decades. It's just getting more extreme. It was similar to Joe Biden providing funding for abortions internationally. This is something that's going to enrage, inflame and make the right historical and say, why did he do that when Planned Parenthood or whoever else could step in and do that role when they know that that's something that's absolutely like a trigger. Gun control, do they need to go after the guns? Right now, I would say the guns are here to stay. There's, I don't know, a billion guns or something, half a billion guns in this country. That's not going anywhere. So they can stay away from the super red meat of the opposition and still get a whole bunch done by cleaning up their act internally, not marching to the beat of one drum but a drum of sanity and I don't want to say moderation, but one of thoughtfulness that's not just going to. Okay, all right. Why don't we let you make a last comment of one minute, okay? Winston? Oh, okay. You know what? For all we come on, this is our democracy. We get to complain about it. We get to criticize it. We get to condemn it. And that is a wonderful, amazing thing. And so God bless America if you believe in God or Buddha or nobody, if you're an atheist. But you know what? We got a lot going on right in this country, but it's up to us to step up and to say, I don't like it. I don't see it. I want to change something better and to work with others to get the best country that we have because otherwise we're going to get the country that we had for years. So I think that we're, I'm hopeful. We have a wonderful president who's just said every single American is going to be able to get a COVID shot by the end of May. This is an amazing thing that he's, look at his list of accomplishments and let's just kind of work to get behind him. Work to get behind him. How about that? Get behind the best that America can be and stop with the petty BS. Yes, there you go. All right, Cynthia, your minute. Okay, I won't take a whole minute. I'm going to read a quote by George Orwell, which I think is very provocative. So I'm going to describe this quote. The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history. That's it. And he who ignores his history or her history is doomed to repeat it. And there are some awful scenarios that we could repeat. Stephanie, what's your minute? Yeah, Joe Manchin, will you back off? What is going on with this Joe Manchin? He is the head of Appalachia, the largest white poverty community in the nation. Will he get on with serious business and quit interrupting Biden? And then for Biden, you hoarse around with Republicans and I hope that you feel like you've checked the box that you touched the stove and you found out it's still hot. So would you stop the hoarsing around now, please? And let's go as many, many of this group has suggested. Okay, Tim, you know, we have not heard of a counter inauguration today and I take that as a good sign. Yes, I do too. Although we are going to be facing a tsunami here in Hawaii in a bit. So we'll see how that goes. Let me say it's not a problem. I know. But the question, the question I put to you is here we are, we have this kind of civil war going on, call it a political civil war. And we have Trump trying to recover, trying to reemerge, retake his presidency. And all of us, we talked about a month or two ago, we talked about the possibility that time would go by and the same sort of, you know, media cycle phenomenon that he has been using over his four years will happen to him. Other things, like for example, Biden's success in the vaccine, that is certainly worth thinking about and the media is playing that up. And the negative things like Cuomo that distracts from Trump's efforts to retake the presidency. So is that happening do you think is the mere passage of time in the news cycle, taking the power away from him? Do you think? I think you're gonna expect this no matter what administration. There's always something to distract from the efforts in which you're trying to put forth. Just sound corny here. President Biden will get his bills passed. He just needs to buy his time. Is that a play on words? Yes. Yes. And that's corny, I know, but that's the best I can give you right now. Okay, what a great discussion as usual. Tim Apachello, thank you so much, Stephanie Dalton, Cynthia Sinclair-Wilson, Winston-Weld's first class discussion. Really appreciate all these ideas and arguments and positions. Gee whiz, we do our job. We do investigation. Thank you so much and we'll see you next week. Aloha.