 Hi everybody, it's Jamie Nutter from Culture That Works and our new company called WorkXO here in Washington DC and you are watching Six Degrees of Association with Sarah, Rob and Andrew. And welcome to another episode of Six Degrees of Association. You came back and we couldn't be happier. We are the only online TV show that's dedicated to association success. Once again, I'd like to welcome our lovely panel for today, we've got Rob Barnes from Uptify and also Andrew McCullum from Fitness Australia. Thank you Sarah. Great. So just to set the scene for everyone who's only joining us for the first time, each episode of this TV show contains feature stories, regular segments and everything needed to bring associations into the 21st century. So first of all, I'd just like to go through some feedback from our last or our first episode. Feedback. We are open to feedback. Just some questions really, just on some of the things that we actually spoke about, really regarding the main area of topics. So Rachel M, she said she loved the show. What are your actual thoughts on member levels? So we're talking gold, silver, bronze. Wow. I want two minutes. I kind of feel like membership levels is the old school. But I guess look at the end of the day, how you package it is going to be based on how you, what you know about your own industry or profession. You know, I think mostly associations membership offering needs to reflect the way their actual industry or professions sell their products and services into the community. Okay. I'll take a slightly different view Rob, wouldn't be the first time, but I tend to think, you know, if you have categories of whether it's gold, silver, bronze level one, two or three, you're at risk of categorizing and really pigeonholing your members into certain categories. So you will take, get these benefits because you're a gold member or if you don't want those benefits, you will get these ones because you're a silver or a level two, whatever it might be. I think, you know, in building flexibility into a model is desirable. And I think by doing that, allowing that, the member really decides what they want to get out of the association. Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point. People are used to choosing their own adventure in the 21st century. You can do it just about anywhere else, associations have to learn to adapt to that. I love the iPhone model, isn't it really? Yeah. Everyone buys the same product out of the box, a week later, no two are the same. Different apps, different background, different wallpapers. And I think, you know, membership should aspire to deliver on that sort of flexibility for association. So there you are, Rachel Ems. You need the iPhone model of the membership. And from Darren H. So last time we actually spoke about the Uber versus taxis situation that happened. I see what comes down from you. So do you have any ideas on how they could have done it better? My first thing is that I can't believe that taxis didn't see, the taxi councils didn't see this coming. For them to be in a situation where they felt like their monopoly was going to last forever and not see that the entire world around them has changed, that's where the fail happened. Yeah. I couldn't agree more, I mean Uber came into Australia three, four years ago possibly and still they're saying, you know, pretending this isn't happening, they're, you know, making arguments about passenger safety and so forth. But, you know, I mean, one thing I think, and not necessarily the taxi councils, but I look at cab charge in Australia, I mean, cab charge or a multi-million dollar organization have made tremendous profits over the last three years. Why not invest some of that profit back into making a payment gateway, replicating some of the payment methods that makes Uber so successful? You know, that to me is where not the taxi council itself, but, you know, the role of the taxi council is to introduce and to encourage this sort of development for its members. So, yeah, I think they, there are a lot of fails to use your term that we could, that could have been done a lot better here. But for Darren's benefit, I think the key lesson here for associations is you need to be paying attention to what is outside your association. The world has changed dramatically. It's a bit like the, you know, there's a great story online about the necktie association for people who's made and sold neckties, who all of a sudden looked around their boardroom table and realized that no one was wearing a necktie. No one had paid attention to the fact that the times that moved on were not in old England anymore. You just get so into it, don't you? That's exactly right. So, that's really the lesson for most associations is paying attention to what's going on in society and how it's impacting what you guys are doing. Great. So, that's what I mean for a future segment. I think necktie association. Thanks for that one. We need to pick that one up. Yeah. Good work. Anyway, moving on. So, also we had some very attentive people in the first episode, it seems. So, Andrew, did you get bikes for your bell or bell for your bikes? I think my intent was to get a bell for my bike and I can say that they are suitably attached now. Thank you for our very attentive viewers as well for picking that up. Anytime you want me to bring anything like that up, just let me know. More than happy to do it. Bikes for our bells. You're going to leave fast for the next episode. There's an episode titled, I'm sure, Bikes for our Bells. At least, you know, we're not editing too heavily. So, now we get to the fun part, my most favourite part of the actual show. And this is a segment we like to call Thumbs Up, Thumbs Down. So, we have our two panellists. Talk about some association that they've even given a thumbs up or a thumbs down to in the past few weeks. So, let's start with you, Rob. Who does your thumbs up go to? Well, thanks. So, as is probably expected, I've not chosen an association for my thumbs up. This is awkward. I know. You're on top of the episode content, aren't you, Rob? I've got the run sheet here. I'm cool. But there's a really great book that some people that I know quite well, I tend to call them friends. Andrew, if that's okay. Sure. Jamie Nutter and Maddie Grant have written a book. It was released late last year. And it's called When Millennials Takeover. And I think that it's the first time I've actually seen and read a book that talks about this subject, you know, this generational kind of subject in a way that's a user guide. And while it's not directly aimed at associations as such, there's so much in here that impacts associations. Okay. And the way it's been written is a real user guide that I think association executives could get a great deal out of. So they talk about what I love about society is like the ridiculously optimistic future of business. And associations are in business. They're in business to turn their surpluses into effort and value for their members. And the impact of the workforce being dominated by millennials is right now is starting to have a material effect. So the book itself identifies what Jamie and Maddie call I guess they're these values that define what the future of business is. Digital, clear, fluid and fast. Okay. And when I think about that as a mantra, as, you know, I'd love to know a 21st century association that says, you know what, we need a new constitution. And the constitution is about digital, clear, fluid and fast. Imagine a business plan that talks about how will we be digital, clear, fluid and fast in the 21st century. And it's relationship to the people who are going to be working in our association. So big thumbs up to Jamie, Jamie Nodder and Maddie Grant for this book. It's a real user guide for how we can do better. It has a great impact on association management. I feel so, yes, it's a little bit off script. It's not an association, but it's for association. So I'm running with it. Okay, we'll let you off. Thumbs down. Everybody else I've ever seen present about generations. So. Oh, jeez. It is. I've seen, look, I've seen some good presentations about the impact of the generations, but I'm kind of tired of seeing the same chart saying, hey, this is what baby boomers are. And this is what Gen X is. And this is what I just don't think people relate to that. They don't often see themselves as that person and like being typecast if you like. And I do feel like, I know millennials, Gen Y's or whatever that are not, they don't behave and don't have those kind of traits that they're being sort of labelled with. So if there's anything that we could do better as associations is perhaps stop trying to do this demographic research and anything that just labels people. I think people are, I don't know. You get tired of it. A little sick of being labelled in a way that's so generalist in its view because there are people that are different. And we as associations need to be able to cater for the way people see us, not us make decisions on how people, you know, should be defined by us anyway. So I'm just a little, you know, I'd love to see some different work and in contrast to the way Jamie Nodder and Maddie Grant wrote in their book, that's the sort of presentation that I think associations need to be seeing, not some of these charts. So thumbs down for some of the generational presentations that I've seen being presented to associations. Any comments on that guys, feel free to hashtag 6DA and let us know. Or even if you read the book or even heard of the book, that would be great as well. Over to you, Andrew. Once again, I'll try and keep this brief, unlike my fellow panellists here. I've got to give a wrap. Museums Australia and then New Zealand Equivalent, I'll do my best museums, Eotaroa. Not bad. Thank you. These two bodies are combining resources to host the Joint Museums Australasia Conference for the first time in May this year. Early indications are that they're going to almost triple the delegate numbers they have traditionally got for their respective conferences. By combining the two, they're obviously delivering a fantastic outcome for their members. The members are voting with their feet and pursuing a joint opportunity, which is delivering great outcomes for them this year. They don't have to attract some international interest too, I'd imagine. I'd imagine so, yeah. And obviously with a greater presence than would previously for two different conferences. Fantastic account. So thumbs up to those museums Australia and I won't try the New Zealand Equivalent for a second time. I'll rest on my laurels the first time. Again, a bit of a thumbs down. I read with interest, Association of Forums 2015 Board Survey. Interesting, one finding in there, 42% of boards take part in some sort of board performance evaluation or, you know, critical assessment of their effectiveness as a board. And this staggered me. 42% less than half of boards in Australia are actually undertaking some form of board review. Now, I mean if I'm a board member, my expectation is that the staff working for the organisation I'm a representative of, I want all of them having some form of regular evaluation, regular feedback from a manager. And the fact that only less than half of boards are getting that sort of participating what's a pretty basic fundamental exercise in performance enhancement. To me it's a really disappointing. I'm surprised you're surprised. You're surprised, I'm surprised. I didn't say I was surprised. Perhaps disappointed is where I'm going to. I think that board self-reflection, board self-evaluation, you and I both know how hard it is to, and it's often driven by the executive team, right? It's like, well, we have to be evaluated. We want everybody, it's a culture of reflection and feedback and the like. Performance enhancement. And the board members are saying, well, I just volunteer for this. I don't need performance reviews in my voluntary role as well as in my sort of work role. So I'm not surprised by it. Yes, maybe disheartened that feedback and self-reflection on these things aren't part of board culture, particularly when you have AICD providing training which has a lot of this embedded in it now. And AICD training is almost compulsory for board members these days. And it's a big part of it. So it's certainly worthy of a thumbs down. I agree, I agree. That's definitely. Okay, now we get into the next part which is the lunchtime special. This week we're actually going to be talking about associations and competitions. So I'm going to hand it over to Andrew and Rob for the next four minutes to talk about the topic. Do associations do competition well? Sarah said four minutes. Four minutes. Have I ever spoken for four minutes? Several times. Just many times over. I think this is an interesting tone to me. You know, I see it a lot. You know, associations, they tend to take something a bit of an almost moral high ground as, you know, we're doing this for you. You're our members. Why are you, why would you go somewhere else? And I think it's almost something, there's a feeling that some associations, they almost, they feel they should have an immunity from competition in a commercial space. Unless there is a very specific competition that's in place. So you see, at some stage, there's a historical split. You know, at some point that there's been a professional college or something and there's been a massive disagreement between two segments and it's actually split into two different associations. So there's inherent competition in that, which has its own troubles. But I get where you're coming from. Like that concept of, well, we are the professional society for X. Nobody else is going to do business in this space because why would anybody else want to try? But that's not the point, is it? No. And it's all nice. It's one side is competition with another association and another professional body. And then there's competition in that commercial space of, well, we're going to invest for our members. We're going to deliver a commercial outcome for our members. That's going to deliver revenue for the association, deliver benefits for our members. And that level also, there's sort of that, you know, it's almost an implied obligation that the member has to, well, because our association's delivering this on this business proposition, we should support it. There's a lot. And the association sometimes feels that. I agree. I think there's less, there's not enough attention paid to what the sector or just what the business environment is that surrounds that profession or that industry. So where if you're a trade association and your members are large corporates, you know, in whatever sector it might be, the association itself may not be paying enough attention to where else those companies are getting value? Where are they getting value in terms of their legal services and industrial relations advice? Where else are they getting? Because that's what they're competing with. They're not seeing that. Or if they're, if our associations continue to do the oh, well, was me kind of, well, we're just a not-for-profit or we're just a, we can't deliver that. Well, that's bollocks, I think, in the 21st century. There are plenty of opportunities. Competitions and inevitability, it simply doesn't go away. Just ask the Taxi Council, right? You wasn't paying enough attention to the fact that, yeah, and I think the challenge is, and perhaps harking back to what Jamie Norder and Maddie Grant are talking about is there is no such thing as not competition for millennials who are making decisions these days, right? I mean, right now, I would hazard a guess that you could set up a new membership organisation, regardless of whether it's not-for-profit or a membership-based organisation from your mobile phone in less time than it takes to have a board meeting and probably have more followers, more members, maybe willing to pay things. Like, in less than a day, you could do that and you could do it from a device you can hold in your hand. Our associations are running constitutional organisations that have been around for however long. It's just crazy. It's a board meeting we're having a discusser at the next board meeting in two months' time. Even the concept- It's not a conducive to commercially viable, successful organisations, is it? The concept, I think, Geoff DeCarnia talks about this a little bit about when he talks about the principles of sort of governance into the future or governing for the loss of control, he calls it. And it's this concept that eight people, 12 people, 19 people, elected, appointed, to sit around a table can make decisions that are in the best interests of 20, 30,000 members. Did they never met? Who they never met? It's crazy in the 21st century because the internet allows those 20,000 members to talk amongst themselves from their phones any time they're like without any reference to the association whatsoever. That's where the competition is happening and it is rarely on the agenda of most boards and associations. It's like the old selling point of an association where we offer networking opportunities. You know, Facebook offers networking opportunities too but you don't necessarily need to join you to get that sort of benefit, is it? Okay, my turn. Sorry guys, time's up. Thank you for that. So we say they don't do it well? No. Okay. I think they can do it a lot better. Okay, we're almost at the end of the 22 minute mark. So now the next section is where we talk about associations and there really is an association for everything. Today we're going to be spotlighting the Association for Pet Obesity Prevention. Over to you, Andrew. Thank you and I love this segment and this segment's about highlighting these great associations. It's certainly trying to and you know, I love the fact there is an association for everything and we're certainly endorsing these organizations that we mentioned. But yes, the Association for Pet Obesity Prevention or APOP as I've turned them, they were founded in 2005, headquartered in North Carolina and have a membership made up of very dedicated veterinarians, animal health practitioners of various levels and they're dedicated, committed to making the lives of dogs, cats, all other domestic pets healthier and more vital. But there is a serious side to APOP as well and that is that they are also promoting parallel weight loss between pets and pet owners. So we don't want an unhealthy dog nor do we want an unhealthy owner of that unhealthy dog, clearly. So to the good people of APOP, proud to salute you this week. The fine work you're doing on behalf of dogs, cats and their unhealthy owners everywhere and we appreciate you being a part of this segment. Good job. I love that. That's great. APOP. I love it. It's just great how they blend in animals with their owners. It's been a while since I've heard an association founded in 2005. So it's so recent. So that's great. Yeah. Crazy. Love to hear from someone at APOP. Yeah. Sounds good. Okay, guys, we're now at the two-minute warning, sorry. So this is a part where we actually take your feedback, pose it to our panel, talk about anything that's come through our Twitter feed as well, which is hashtag 6DA. So first of all, from TimD98, great show, guys. Any plans for any guest speakers in the future? Yes. Absolutely. As soon as one accepts our many invitations, I think. It returns our calls. One of the two. Well, I think one of the plans for the show was always to be at some of the key association events and take the show on the road. And thanks to the help of the guys that ran back conferencing, we're going to be able to do that. And so when we're there, we've got access to some of the people that we'd love to have. And yes, invitations are out there. We'd love to have some panelists come on and join us and do their stuff live. Great. And we're open to ideas or anyone who you think maybe is doing really, really well in this space and feel free to let us know and we can make contact with them and make it happen because that's what we do, right? Yeah, that's it. We make it happen. Make it happen. So Nelson for five, six love the shirts. So great work on the shirts, guys. Yeah. I think they look really good. I can't take any credit on the shirts. No, no. I think that's all. So yeah, anything. I think we need to get some other things around here just to... There's definitely some adornment. Yeah. It's a bit plain at the moment in Chattel. It's okay. We're growing into it. We're growing into it. I think the response so far to the merch has been good. Yep. We'll have merch tents set up in no time. Some of that. We could be very commercially astute and dare I say it, do we do competition well with the merchandising division very soon. So... Perfect. So guys, closing comments. Yeah. So I feel like we've created a great opportunity to be able to showcase some of the great work associations doing in a way that's not just the blog post and it's going to be a little bit more engaging. Absolutely. People feeding back, giving us some story ideas. Andrew's done some great work investigating some of the feature articles and some of the associations from around the world. We definitely want it to take that. The next opportunity is to build that community around the show. So when we launched the online community at AssociationSuccess.org, as many people getting involved in that is really going to bring the show to life. Excellent. Yeah, I'm with you. It's constantly surprising to me just how big the association sector is both here in Australia and overseas of course. So, you know, there's so many great stories out there. There's so many things with great topics to talk about. So really looking forward to exploring them further in future episodes. Should be great. Okay, that brings us to the end. Thank you everyone for joining. Remember to log on and go to hashtag 6DA to share your comments and your feedback and anything else that you really want to share. We'll take anything right now. And also head online to the online community association success.org to share even more feedback with us and to watch other episodes. Remember guys, that too much agreement kills a chat and we'll see you next time.