 What's up everybody welcome into the next Pat's podcast. I'm Phil Perry coming at you from radio row here in Las Vegas ahead of Super Bowl 58 We have a tremendous episode for you here today because we're talking to two quarterbacks Both incredibly bright both have experience and what the Patriots offensive scheme appears It will be in 2024 under Alex van Pelt We know he has Brown's background under Kevin Stefanski who has background under Gary Kubiak Who once hired Kyle Shanahan to be his offensive coordinator Kubiak also a longtime assistant of Mike Shanahan that Shanahan tree is Everywhere across the NFL. It is in a way here in New England now, too So what is it about that scheme that Patriots fans should be excited about specifically? How does that scheme help young? Quarterbacks we're all expecting the Patriots to make a transition at that position Maybe even use the number three overall pick on a passer. Why is this offense good for that player? We're talking to Matt Ryan former NFL MVP. He won that award when he was playing in Kyle Shanahan's offense in Atlanta Dan Orlowski as well during his playing days. He played in this offense He loves this offense. Let's start though with our conversation with Matt Ryan We're gonna get deep into the nitty-gritty when it comes to the X's and O's with this Shanahan style scheme We think we're gonna be seeing in Foxborough Very excited now to have with us on nextpads the great Matt Ryan Matt. Thanks so much for joining us. Yeah, happy to be on with it I cannot believe it has been 10 years since the ice bucket challenge started Pete Fraidy's obviously made such a massive impact on our area Yeah, being in the New England area the Boston area Tell us what you're doing for the ice bucket challenge in its 10th anniversary right here on radio row Yeah, just out here kind of you know reminding people that it's been 10 years and creating awareness for ALS research and Finding medicines to you know make a cure for this I I'm personally attached because you mentioned Pete Pete was a buddy of mine at BC He was one of the first guys I actually met when I got to Boston College on orientation He was in you know, we were in this like eight-man dorm At orientation and he was one of the guys in the room. And so I've got to know him immediately and such a good guy and Such a good friend and kind of he was so loyal and then You know to see what the disease did to him and the impact that it had on his family too for me It was like I want to help in whatever way I can to try and get behind this and You know find ways to make it better for for people with ALS and find ways to end and and I think that's going to be Something that we continue to work on and try and find a way to get it done I also got to give a shout out to both the Falcons organization and New Orleans Saints organization They've done a great job of creating awareness for it and I'm trying to continue that today Well, it's such a great cause hopefully our viewers our listeners can contribute to that cause support the cause and continue to do the ice bucket challenge That's right. I'm gonna do it a little later on today. I've done it before so I gotta find out who's getting Who's getting called out by me as well now What's your technique? Do you do you like to dump the ice bucket on yourself? Or do you have someone else do it catch you by surprise a little bit? Nah, I kind of want to know when it's coming. Yeah, you know, I feel like the cold plunges all the rage now You know, I feel I feel like the ALS ice bucket challenge was a little bit before their time So I've been doing some cold plunging and I feel like I'm prepared for for it today classic quarterback, right? You just want to be in control. You want to have control over your situation. Yeah, you're not the only one Let's talk a little bit of football and specifically about the offense that you were in in Atlanta You just mentioned the Falcons Kyle Shanahan obviously coaching in this year's Super Bowl The reason why it's of interest to us in New England Matt is because there is a change Offensively happening in Foxborough right now. Yeah, and they seem to be adopting a scheme that is somewhat similar Alex van Pelt is the offensive coordinator now never worked under Kyle Shanahan But worked under Kevin Stefanski was Gary Kubi act ties. There's a if you draw a big enough tree You can make the link there, right? Yeah, I mean the NFL is very for lack of a better term in bread There's a lot of carryover between staffs and But really that Gary Kubi act influence is massive, right? It goes all the way back to Mike Shanahan I mean we can continue to take this further back But it starts with the outside zone In the run game and so to me when you look at a guy like Alex van Pelt coming in I think it's going to be about establishing that run getting the run game going stretching the field horizontally and then You know finding ways to get the play-action past going off of that And I think right now if you look at the best offenses in the NFL This is kind of the mold that they're going in and so I expect them to be better. I mean It was kind of hard to watch in New England, you know the last couple of years offensively what they were doing I know they played good defense but getting back to you know being a little bit more balanced of a football team playing Good offense playing good defense running the football. I think that recipe Is the one that they want to get back towards Why is that system so beneficial for quarterbacks? And maybe even especially Matt young quarterbacks if you could speak to that because it does look like they're Making a transition at that position potentially. Yeah, I think I think one of the things you know running the football does is take some of the pressure off you on first and second down and you know As a quarterback your money's made on third down and in the red zone and you've got to step up You've got to make plays in those situations, but when there's too much on you on first and second down And that wears you know like you're trying to find ways to make plays 65 70 plays a game It wears on you and I think some of what they do running the football takes the stress off you number one You can hand that thing off, but number two starts to get guys hoping it get guys open in the play-action pass game And it simplifies what you have to do right you're you're going off that play-action You're looking for these deep crossers not there You're checking it down and it's putting a lot of stress on a defense and to me It was always one of the things I liked as as a quarterback in that system What do you think is the biggest challenge of that system? I think about young quarterbacks now We're looking at these guys that are at the top of the draft Patriots have the number three overall pick you were taken with the number Three overall pick back in a late. Is it you're under center much more? Is it about trusting what the coaching staff is telling you because we hear a lot about? That element to that scheme with Kyle Shanahan. What do you think is the toughest part about it? I think Depending on how they want to set the run game up I think getting under center now for guys coming from college is probably one of the bigger challenges For me it wasn't right like when I was at Boston College. We were under center man We were running that ball from under center And so I was very comfortable doing that I think you mentioned though the timing and the trust to me. That's probably The most difficult part because if you are under center and you're going in that play-action You're turning your back to the line of scrimmage for a long time And they throw a lot of short post and crossing routes which require you to get it out on that first hitch Right that back foot's gonna hit you're gonna hitch into it You better see a spot and try and drive that ball into a space and a lot of times it's muddy But they run kind of through that muddy area and find an opening I think that's one of the hardest things as a young player is to trust that the spacing and the timing is gonna Be you know these these coverages that they have in the back end I mentioned when you were taken in the draft last thing I want to ask you is because the Patriots might be investing that pick In a quarterback. I want to ask you about makeup And I wonder from your perspective because you know you came was Maddie ice Yeah, we just had Ted Karris here in the Cincinnati bangles. He's talking about Joe Cool Joe burrow Makeup feels like the toughest thing to scout can all see what's on the tape. We can all see what you guys do on TV Who would have been for you coming out of college your best references? When it came to your makeup because I think that's gonna be the biggest question mark for the Patriots as they scout these Guys near the top of the draft. Yeah, I think you know, I think back on you know my experience of finishing up college going through that combine process and and then ultimately ending up in Atlanta and hearing the stories of Who they went to right and so my last year at BC we had a coaching staff change and so You know they would go in and they would ask Jeff Jack as in ski and Steve Logan who coached me at the time a little bit About me, but they spent a lot of time going to NC State where Tom O'Brien left to go and that staff And it wasn't just Tom O'Brien, right? They would go into the strength coach Todd Rice They would go into the coordinator Dana Bible the running back coach who recruit recruited me Jason Swepson They spent an extended time Down the line of maybe not the people that you would think to go talk about. What's he like day to day? What's his personality because to me you can fake it for an interview? You know, you can pull yourself together for 15 20 minutes and come across a certain way But you're not able to fake it for four or five years being around somebody and what you're like day to day and what your mind You know your mindset and your makeup is like and so to me I think you've got to find people that are around them all the time That understand who that person is so you can get a deep dive into what they're gonna be like day to day for you I love it. Great conversation Matt. Thank you so much for spending some time with us listeners viewers Make sure you're participating in the ice bucket challenge in its 10th year. Thanks again Matt Know you're busy guys, so we appreciate it. Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you Let's get to now the Orlovsky portion of the program He has watched these quarterbacks that are all presumed to be Top of the draft types of players this year I think you're gonna find it very interesting which quarterback he prefers and prefers for the Patriots Very interesting comp to CJ Stroud is what Dan Orlovsky will throw at you in this chat Let's get to Orlovsky right now Very excited to have with us now the great Dan Orlovsky ESPN Dan Thanks for spending some time with us here, man. We're gonna talk some quarterbacks ready to talk some quarterbacks Yeah, yeah, I am I am I hope always ready to do that Patriots need one it looks that way at least they're drafting it number three overall Why we know you're you do have an appreciation for Mack Jones and so we can ask you about Mack Jones I want to ask you first though This looks like a quote-unquote three quarterback draft at the very top Some people will say that at least Caleb Williams Drake may Jaden Daniels If you're there at number three and you're drafting for New England, New England, who do you hope? Falls to you in that slot. Yeah right now in the first week of February my initial thought is Jaden Daniels Obviously as we get into the back end of April and studying those guys one I've called basically all these guys games outside of Caleb. The reason I say Jaden is I called a couple of games in early the 2022 season and You know down at LSU there was this at least like internal thought of like are we gonna move on from Jaden Daniels Were they gonna bench him because they were he there was concerned that he was so hesitant that he wasn't trusting anything now Obviously, this was early on in the transfer phase and whatnot and to see where it went from there So obviously how this season went from for him You're intrigued of like the mental toughness and also you got to see the comfort and when he is comfortable that talent shine I had to do a couple tapes about three or four weeks ago. So I've watched a couple of his games I'm not saying he's this guy, but When I watched the games that overwhelming thought was Pure as a passer from the pocket It's the same thought that I had when I watched CJ Stroud last year Just when you watch them in the pocket like man, it's just so pure the the the throwing motion I'm a big throwing motion guy. I call it's just a smooth stroke and he's got that like and I again I'm not totally into studying these guys But I think I feel confident saying just pure pocket passer wise and the different types of throws He's the guy that I think is the best at that I don't want to go too far field, but I do like the comp and talking about the way they throw And I've heard the comp of Randall Cunningham who had a beautiful long flowing throwing motion Yeah, is there anything to that comp obviously Randall Cunningham is one of the greatest running quarterbacks of all time That might be a stretch to project Jaden Daniels in that way But it's Randall Cunningham someone else you can go further back and say maybe a little like that Yeah, I think just the ability to throw at is there Randall's throwing motion was longer very you know like Jaden's That's why I said CJ like Jaden's is very tight and compact It's what we call like super nerd football stuff. It's a it's a small C rather than a big C You know they show that all the time on in on sunny night football Chris Collins with this big on the ball coming straight up Absolutely So he's got this very tight small C in his offhand stays close to his chest and he's a rotational thrower So you could see he's had really good coaching in that regard So but but as far as like if you just threw a ball down on the ground and said hey pick it up and Go throw this this guy's gonna run 20 yards and go in. Yeah, I could see that just the pure talent of it Yes, I want to ask you this on scheme the Patriots are a blank slate offensively They have very few players that you say we're building around that They're bringing in Alex van Pelt is their offensive coordinator They're then going to bring in a veteran quarterback who may or may not fit exactly what Alex wants to do Do you go scheme then quarterback or do you a quarterback then scheme or do you have to adopt a scheme in the next however many months That is ambiguous enough to fit anyone into it. What do you do when you're a blank slate? But you have two checkpoints free agency and then draft Yeah, I think if we're talking the the veteran quarterback I think you go with the the scheme first like what guy do we think can come in and play at a Give us a chance to win level in this scheme because that's obviously the goal If we're talking young player like a draft quarterback quarterback over everything. Absolutely. Um, You know in regards to the offense and Alex, I like the fact that he's been it has a history in the mix Shanahan tree You know that he stints in green bay. Yeah, that's a hardball thing I stole it from him, but you know stints in green bay and obviously the background in cleveland So i'm a big fan of that offense. I always think it helps quarterbacks play better than their physical talent necessarily should allow them to but I do think um You you you you if it's a veteran guy, you want a guy that No Like hey if he's got to start week one, he's going to play good football in this system But at the end of the day like if we're going to take a young kid it Does the scheme we can always change you can't change the player It does look like it's going to be this mix Shanahan tree type of offense van pel Work with stafansky who work with kubiak who work with mike Shanahan So it's he's he's in a roundabout way part of that tree. What is it about? That offense that scheme that allows quarterbacks to get more out of their physical talent than maybe other schemes would I've heard people refer to this offense as almost a quarter backing cheat code Why is that? It's a great question. So I played in this offense It's my favorite offense to be around in the NFL. There's a couple reasons why Number one it never mentally bogs down quarterbacks A lot of times quarterbacks have a ton of responsibility pre snap You're identifying fronts and changing protections. It's not a big part of this offense It happens at times, but it's not a big part those guys kubiak and shanahan always wanted the quarterbacks should just play fast Second of all, there's a consistency to it because it's so dependent upon Hey, our feet tell us when and where to throw and if you get into your first or second hitch And the ball is not to that first or second option. We're getting the ball out So it minimizes mistakes. It also promotes aggression because you rep so much. Hey on this ballfaker What not in my back foot hits? I'm ripping this 12 yard in route if that linebacker takes one step to his left So you become a very convicted player now it leads to a pick here there But you know more often than not the conviction plays well too. I think it is We go through you guys you guys notice we go through waves in the NFL of what's the trend I think it's trend and different You know, it is a scheme that whether we're you know in the early 2000s and everyone's playing tampa 2 Yes, and and cover 3 And and we're in a little bit shrunk down formations You can run everything out of that and then we get into the early 2010s and into the middle of the 2015 era where it's More spread out and rpo centric This still lives and it's one of those offense that does never loses its identity If I have a run play and it's out of this formation and this look and it's going to left I'm going to have two or three pass plays that are out of this formation And this action and it's going to look left and I think you know that that's one of the fundamental principles is They don't just call plays They build game plans That those that offense builds a game plan and it's all attached to each other The reason I blurred it out jake plumber is because he was under mike shaney and the quarterback for denver And he hadn't had a great career until that point and he reimbutifully The shaney and offense and he had the attributes like yourself tall Long mobile enough to move outside the pocket bootleg and do all those things So you could look at a jade and daniel's being able to certainly drake me to do that as well a little longer um I'm wondering this I keep saying this to phil and I say to anybody who'll listen Wrong place wrong time for the patriots to take a quarterback this year. The team's too bad Build the offensive line Find the receiver Trade down have two first round picks for next year And then if you want to go up to five go up to four get your quarterback then or find the veteran You can turn gardener minch you into jake plumber all over again. I don't disagree with that. I I say this all the time outside of I think joe burrow You know, we don't see a lot of top five quarterbacks get drafted and all of a sudden flip bad franchises Now i'm not saying new england's a bad franchise. They've obviously had a down three or four year stretch given obviously the success um So, you know, if they were at one and maybe two I would feel a little bit differently. I would sit there and go no No, no, like because kayla boyhams is such a rare talent. He's flawed But my goodness his playmaking ability is is rare Um that I would say you got to take one but or take him at that spot But if you sit there and go, you know what we don't you know Drake mays mechanically too sloppy and he's there at three and we don't love that or you know jade and daniels Some people say he's gonna be too thin for some teams likings. We don't like that I completely agree because this isn't this didn't be they didn't move on from coach bellicech because of one bad year The roster is it became what it became. We all know that and so I don't I don't disagree that unless you think the guy that you love Is there at three? There's never the right time. Okay. And if you do that, right? So say you you move back you take your tackle you wait on a quarterback because Your team's not ready to bring in that young player at that all important position Are we looking at a scenario where mac jones comes back and in this offense? You know, it's interesting before the 2021 draft it sounded as though kyle shanahan himself loved mac jones, right? Would you be willing to or should the patriots? I'll just ask you finally should the patriots keep mac jones and see what he can be in this new scheme. Yes Now I'm everyone says like in my industry. You're not allowed to have biases or whatnot. I obviously believe that mac jones is a good player I think he's a much better player than he's been shown So I say yes and like the the the counter to question my question What's the downside like if you're not taking a quarterback into top three you're obviously signifying. Hey there's other parts of our team that aren't good enough right now that we want to Build up and while you're always trying to win every game you have to be a realistic about your football team What would be the downside? So if you do that let's live in the hypothetical world that you do that mac jones plays any stings again great Cool, there's there's no downside to that you're gonna have an early draft pick Sucks to lose all that mac jones plays really good Then you're in a situation where you get you get a you're in control. You got leverage We can still go get a quarterback in the draft We'll have an extra pick more than likely or we can move forward mac You can trade mac jones like there's a lot that can happen and Again, I still believe that mac is a better player than he played last year If you don't take a quarterback and you don't trade down Marvin Harrison You got your receiver the same way all these yeah, you get your guy. I don't Marvin's going to be a spectacular nfl pro But you got to get a quarterback that you're after them Then that's going to minch you minch you mac jones marvin harrison the nfl. You'll love it. Don't you dana lopsky espn We could talk quarterbacks in scheme all day long. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you Great stuff there from dana lopsky Obviously still a fan of mac jones's game. He's not the only one we talked to rich gannon out here We talked to steve young out here jacoby miers here on the next patch podcast All of these people still in the game still studying the game very closely Some of whom know that quarterback position very very well and what it takes to succeed there They still believe in mac jones He may need a change of scenery though And if the patriots end up going with a quarterback jane daniels would be at least as of right now dana or lopsky's Pick and if he's running this van pelt offense which has similarities to what the niners are doing With kyle shanahan to what the rams are doing with shawn mcvay Maybe it allows that young player to have success right away helps jump start this patriots rebuild That's it for this edition of the next patch podcast. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks to matt ryan Thanks to dana lopsky. Thanks to jacoby miers. Thanks to eric eager We are loaded with podcast interviews that we have banked this week that we're going to continue to roll out in the very near future So keep it locked on next patch as always and we'll talk to you next time