 Welcome to documentation office hours. It's the 13th of January 2022. Great to have everybody here remind you that we abide by the Jenkins code of conduct. So topics that I had for today news outstanding PR reviews there are other topics we could consider like she code Africa idea review. And so that's for the contribute on and the New Year's blog post the New Year blog post. And then there was the, let's see topic that I might have which is site previews on www.jankins.io poll requests. That's a fun one to see and then using get pod for Jenkins.io poll requests development. Any other topics others would like to add to the agenda. Yes, so I have a couple of questions around new contributors for Jenkins documentation. Go ahead. So how about we capture the questions we may not answer them immediately but ask questions and let's let's put them on the agenda. So the first question is good first issue is about good first issues on Jenkins.io. So I checked and I noticed that the last the most recent issue there is I think from June last year. So I wanted to ask how are those updated. So we have new contributors right now that want to contribute to Jenkins documentation. I see that I'm probably think, oh, maybe this is outdated or you know, this reprises anybody, you know, updating this or things like that. So that's the first question. Then the second question is, do we have any documentation or any video on how to set up Jenkins.io on Windows. Currently. Okay, great. All right, so let's this those are both good candidates to steal time with this one is using get pod. So that's good. All right, so let's talk to those any any other questions you know. This is not a question actually this is just me so I was thinking of starting a block. A series of blog post on Jenkins. So I just want to. Yeah, run that by you then also possible topics because I'll like. I don't know if it's possible for you to review them. I start working on them. You are dead also. Very good. Okay. That's why I asked the second question because actually I'd got a new PC. So I have to redo the installation of Jenkins or this be set up and all that. So that's why I was asking if we have any documentation or video. So that if not, probably I could document the process while I'm doing it again and if possible do a video while I'm doing it again so we can have that. Great, very good. All right, so let's let's I think I think that's a let's put it as a new contributors to Jenkins docs and let's try to answer those questions very good. Any others who have topics they want to add. Okay, well then I propose let's put. Meg, would you be okay if we put Zenob's question first. I was going wondering about that I think that's an excellent idea. Okay, great. So let's do that. All right, so brief brief review of news just so that you're aware, Jenkins 2.319.2 has released. It's a security release, and planning is in progress for Google Summer of Code, and planning is planning is starting soon. Planning is starting soon for. For she code Africa contribute on. So now on to Zenob's question so as a new contributor, let's first look at the good first issues, and you're absolutely correct Zenob, it's not as current as it should be so on what her question was hey, one way to decide how to help the Jenkins is look at the list of issues on documentation and look for things with the label good first issue like this. See, and my screen shared right yes okay so you can see it. So what I want. Okay. So what I did was, I, I searched for how to contribute to Jenkins on Google, and it took me to that documentation page, there's a documentation page, and on that page, there is a link that says okay you can get started here on that link. And when I clicked on the link, it took me, it brought me to get home, but the most recent issue on that page brought me to was 21st was around June last year, June 2021. So that was what I did. So I don't know if that's the same with this. I don't know, or probably I don't know. I think it is I think, I think the navigation you used took you to what what I expect is good first issues and here the most recent one is June of 2021. Exactly. So I think I think this matches. And what that says is we haven't done a triage, a review of the issues to see if there are others in the list that are good first issues. So for example, this one is a good first issue because I just read it. This one is probably a good first issue. And this one might be a good first issue and that's probably about it for now so I'm going to label those as good first issue. I'm going to address one of the challenges so that if I'm lucky that will apply the label. It did very good. Okay. So, so now we have a few more but but the challenge is real, we probably ought to put a sort of a once a month to place a monthly reminder to update the good first issues labels. Because if we don't do it contributors arrive and see oh hey, I don't know how to help and things are outdated here where this, some of these really are pretty reasonable first issues. Good. Okay, so, so that was fairly easy but not the ultimate solution, because now this was your, what I think is the more daunting challenge. How do I do Jenkins that I own development on windows. And based on our past experience, I'd almost go the other direction and say, we may be better serve by teaching people how to use a preconfigured development environment over a web browser, so that they could from their windows or their Android tablet or their macOS or their Linux or free BST they could still do development. And there's this tool called get pod that allows that. Let's see if I've got this yeah here it is. So this thing was added by john mark mason that provides a configuration automation for people who want to use get pod and what get pod is is a get pod is a hosted development environment in the cloud. And to donate these hosted environments up to a certain number of hours per month to people who subscribe. Okay, and so, so the trick technique then is, I go to get pod.io. And now I have to log in. I think I did it with GitHub. Yeah, so I have this is my environment. And now, when I do, if I say oh I want a new project. And I'm going to look at. Oh, I have to change this so that I can see Jenkins.io. Next. Oh, that's not it. What I've got to do is I've got to teach it. No, that's correct. I've got to teach it to let me see Jenkins my my project on Jenkins.io reconfigure. This is the one I want to configure. Oops, just a minute I have to press my security key. But what this is going to do is it's going to allow me to run my ID on the cloud. Oh, come on, you silly thing. External security key. Touch it. Okay, so now what I've got to do is I've got to allow a where is my configuration select repository so I need to add one more repository Jenkins.io. You know, the idea here is this would allow you to instead of running it on your local computer, you would do your development through this web page. And so here I'm going to select a new project, a new workspace, and it's doing a build of it. And it's going to have the environment and I can actually watch it. I can view it. We've got Jean-Marc Mieson who has agreed to do some highlighting of how you use this more effectively so I think that's at least a good, good first starting way to get going. No. Now that. Okay, that doesn't. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry. I was like, this looks much easier than having to set it up on your machine and all that. Yeah, well, and I agree. I think it is easier. And the benefit for me is, as as the configuration changes. You get pod configuration on the on the repo is updated, and you get the configuration changes so if something, something gets adjusted. We're using some newer version of this or that or the other thing. Then that's automatically happens for you and you don't have to remember to update your own computer. Now, now that doesn't that doesn't give you immediate solution to the problem what you'd have to do is. So what would a user do what would a new contributor do. And they would register forget pod fork the Jenkins the Jenkins dot IO repository to their private repository to their, their personal. Yeah, just fork the repository you understand the verb. And start a get pod project from that Jenkins that IO repository. And then submit pull requests. And that I think is what it takes but we may want to invite Jean Mark to attend one of our sessions here or schedule for an earlier time of the day we're after Jean Mark's end of day right now. So it might be good if we we invited him next week and schedule ourselves a few hours early and we could do this same conversation with him doing a demonstration for us. Okay, so let me put a note mark propose a time for next week. When Sean mark could show us how to show us how it works for him. Then what we could do is we could even have potentially try a tutoring session, Zenab have you or Elizabeth. And we could see, okay, does it work for you as well as it did for him. Mark, should we have an issue we've not been filing issues like we should. I'm very guilty. Should we have an issue to update contributing dot a doc to reference get pod. We know it works. Yes. Yeah, so, so what what I would like before we update the contributing is we would, we would assure that it works and then hopefully have Jean Mark record a video video that shows and this is how you do it. Right. Like that so we wouldn't have to add a lot to contributing. Right. Exactly. Well and, and the other is by doing it as a video we can now. We can now reference that video and note. Okay, it was recorded at this point. This is how get pod behave now two months later, when they change we alter that we record a new video and put it there instead. So, is enough does that. I mean, I don't want to, I don't want to suggest that you not do a setup on Windows you're certainly doing and it should work. Much better because I was already thinking of having to go through all that process I went through because I remember I had a lot of issues, trying to set it up the first time. So, which was why I was even looking if I could get something that will make it much straight forward and easier for me because should be told I'd forgotten a lot of the steps because I didn't document it then. So that's why I was suggesting if there's nothing so I can document it now in case something like this happens again but if there's something nice. I'll be happy to try it. Great well and, and that would if if you'd be willing to share your experiences next week and say hey, I tried it and hear the problems I had that would also be very good for us. Yeah, just to know if you have problems we want to know. So, once we're able to have the session with John Mark, I'll try it after then so if I have any issues, I'll let you know, but also you mentioned something about a certain number of hours or something. I don't know I think quite catch that. Oh, yeah so what that is is, because get pod.io doesn't want to give you everything all for free. They will, they will offer you as an open source contributor some, some number of hours total per month of CPU time that you get to use. And, and what we found. So, if you were to, if you want to see examples of get pod in use. Go to the, let's look at Darren Pope. Oh here I know where we can find it. In the contributing to open source document. Here is this link to tutorials on. Here we go to live stream videos and I'm going to put a link into this to this location into our notes here so that we've got them recorded. Example of other applications of get pod.io in the tutorial. It's contributing to open source. And let me embed one of the video links just to be sure we get it so here's this video. What this is is this is five hours of video. Five that Darren I created do and what happens is Darren uses get pod in this case to do plugin development. Not just not just Jenkins.io development but plugin development. And, and it works quite well. See if I can find the exact link because if I remember right he provided one. Nope, not in this one part two maybe. No, maybe part three, because he and I had that discussion about hey this, this tool makes it easy. I don't see it now. I'll have to I'll have to look for it separately I'm confident that we had a segment. We talked about this is how you do get pod. Oh yes here it is. Get pod discussion for the test and G plugin. So this is, this is actually a video demonstration of using get pod to do plugin development not just Jenkins that IO development. So, forgive my just rambling their Z knob is that is that what you were is does that address your question well enough. So, I think I have a follow up question right the follow up question is. So does that mean that if the ask the free as they give you for the month elapsed you have to pay to be able to continue using kids for that month. I believe so. Yes, and now the way I got. They also have an open source contributor program. So your question was if ours expire. Or if ours are exhausted right if you've used all the hours that are available. What's next. And the answer is apply to be an open source contributor. And then they gave the I think they've given me much many more hours as a result of that. I did that. I don't have the details on where the link is for that but if we get to that point. Let me know because I had a conversation with Darren and with the get pod people about how you do that registration. So I've got it in my notes I just don't have it convenient. So that's my question. Thank you. All right, great. Um, could get pod be used if one just needs a little reference installation of Jenkins to look at quickly. A reference installation of Jenkins, probably not because it's focused on compilation and development. Right. And so it's really not. It's not set up to do. It's not set up to do just start an application. There are plenty of places that will do that. If you want to just do a light Jenkins installation, there are, let's go to the Jenkins docs and we can point to some of the people that offer those for instance. Let's see, no, is this. Nope, here we go. It's down here. Hmm, I have to think about that. What we have is we have a bunch of cloud providers like Oracle and Amazon that provide and Google that provide recommended solutions for their cloud installation. Where is that. That's kind of embarrassing that I don't remember immediately where it is. Oh, I know why that it's because it's on the install page. Here we go. So slow brain. These things deploying Jenkins in public cloud if you need to do a lightweight quick experiment, deploying to a public cloud is a great choice and each of these has their guide for instance so AWS has a whole series of things on. Hey, this is how you do it with AWS. And here's the same for Google cloud. And likewise for IBM cloud here's theirs on. Look, this is how you run a Jenkins on their cloud or Oracle has theirs. And each of them provides really good instructions on. Hey look, here's how you can do a Jenkins installation on our cloud. Okay. For some reason I'm having trouble getting on the little thing going on my computer and it annoys me nice you know maybe I can just sidestep it but I think I should still do it. Yeah, I suspect in in your case, you probably don't want the cost or the hassle of deploying on a public cloud. Right. Yeah. All right, so, so we've sort of handled this one for new contributors, Zenab anything else you need there on new contributors okay if we go on to the next question. No, that's it. Okay. All right so Meg we had review outstanding PRs from previous. Do we have anything new on those or I, let's see if some maybe some of them have actually been merged. This one's been merged. Good. Okay, so we can just take that out. It's merged. Okay. May have merged conflicts with this one. And yes, it does have merge conflicts would you like to resolve those conflicts. Oh, we can yeah I could go look at it I didn't look at it last night. So total conflicts, it's got two conflicts. And if you're feeling bold we could do the conflict resolution live. Okay. Let's see that is from that and what is the old one. So I think this is Daniel's text this is the new text. Shouldn't we just include. Oh, I think I know what this is Meg I'm going to propose the change. I believe other tips and tricks is a new addition. Daniel made a new addition so the reason we're seeing conflict here is just because they're two new addition so I think what we do is we take Daniel's text. Put it right there. And I think this would resolve the conflict. Does that make sense to you. I think so yes. Okay. All right now the next conflict then is. Oh, this is more texts from Daniel and this, I believe should go up here like that. Right. So does that seem sensible to you. So of course one needs to read and think about it but I'll go back and do that but yes I think that. I'm sometimes amazed at what get figures out on its own and then it'll bar find something else that seems simple. Yes, right. So are you okay if I mark this as resolved and push that change. Okay, great. Now it still needs to be reviewed etc but at least the conflict has been resolved. And we should see that as a nice, a relatively clean change when you look at what's changed just a minute. So this is. Yeah so double check that this is saying what you want it to say I think we did the right resolution but just in case we made a mistake. And now you had another question on on this one. I'm going to go to see if it's got conflicts. Oh, this one. This one is a long standing one that that really needs complete revisit right I mean there's. And this one may ultimately end up being closed, because Daniel has recreated most of this content already. This one is is one of the embarrassing ones to address a question that that Zenab had asked earlier. The embarrassment is we've had some submissions that are sitting for a very long time, and haven't been reviewed or have had reviews that have comments that say this needs changes, but we need to take action and either make the changes or close the pull request. And some of them that are marked as on hold that I think probably fall in that category. Right, exactly. Yep. Or at least should have a calm. They got marked on hold but they don't have a comment to explain why you know that these are two beloved contributors and one of them is going to quit if they don't win this argument or right, you know, something you know I mean there's there's no indication or this is on hold because there's a new feature under development that's a different situation so exactly. Yep, you described it well things that are there there is a lot of cleanup that we need to do on the Jenkins.io pull request list right having 35 open documentation pull request is unreasonable. But that's just means we've got a lot of work to do to decide which of these we should keep and which should just be closed. Yeah. Okay. Next topic or sounds good to me. Okay, so we had this question on this one crumbs for anonymous access. Yeah, so this one was the one where Martin want this is suggesting to describe something. And you had suggested hey. It's dangerous and that's I'd suggested this text desperately needs, of course needs to be reviewed by Daniel. So I think this one the best answer may just be, hey, is the should we close this or resolve it. Actually, because something I did not know is, you said there's a way to ping both Martin and Daniel to look at this again. Well, so he's already been requested. Daniel's been asked to review it already so the usual way would then be to to just do exactly what you did here which is put an at reference to them. Okay. So so that's that's pretty much the extent of what you can do if if we want to hoist it to them again. Yes. We just put it in here Daniel Beck, and would the extra text that make his proposed proposed by mag enough to address her concerns. Okay, comment. So there at least we've asked the question. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Good. All right, and then one more. This one was my great launching. Okay, this one is from Cynthia. Oh, and it's got. Okay, it's got wiki references that I don't want to merge. Yes, and I think Oleg's concern on this one is that yeah. Okay, we've, we've got a bunch of conversation here. And I think this one may ultimately end up being closed just because we'd probably do better to put this in another poll request. Okay, I don't think I was the one who flagged this one did somebody else have this to the list. I don't know. Yeah, so this one was here. Maybe it's just a bad hyperlink don't know make good question. Yeah. Yeah, so I think I think on this one, it's time I'm just going to take the initiative here and close it and say that we need to need to rework need to need to rework this in a new poll request, rather than carrying this one. I don't know if it's just to Cynthia but I think it's the simplest approach for us, acknowledging that it's, we need more discussion of how you do agent launch and how that agent launch should be described on the site. And then should we have an issue. How do we keep this from getting forgotten should we have an issue about it that points to the old. Yeah, I think there actually is an issue already. So there's this one, and this one so we've got this migrate thing is what she was working on and this one. See if it does migrate if it already redirects help me it doesn't okay yeah so so both those are reminders that we've got work to be done on this launching thing should we annotate those with the history of what we're doing here so that somebody. Yeah, yeah, and I think it may actually already be there. See here's here's Oleg's observation that look, we've got this kind of documentation already, and we could redirect to those pages, instead of having them on Jenkins.io. And this has been merged, and the redirect would go to a page that looks like this. Let's see if I can find it so this is inbound agent. So it would point to docs in but it would be like this. And for me this is a workable page. Right this this tells describes it and it's done right inside the inside the thing that maintains this Jenkins remote. Okay is now is there are there appropriate links from Jenkins IO someplace. There are none. So that's, that's everything. Right, we would need a link from Jenkins IO to this page and this page needs a link. Instead of going to the wiki this distributed build things it needs to link back to Jenkins.io, which contains much of the same material now. Right. And there's, and there's more about that in that big PR that's sitting out there to. Okay, keep an eye on this one. Okay. All right, any other outstanding PRs Meg that are on your mind or that you'd like to be sure we review. No, I should probably go back and do more reviews of what's out there and maybe, maybe that could be a start for a triage to make a list of those that we need to look at. Okay, speed it up a little bit. Yeah, and this one is somebody else just picked it up and fix the problem that we had marked as a good first issue. So I'm going to approve it and merge it. And now we'll see that a good first issue just got closed. Oh, nope, it didn't and it should have been okay it didn't get it attached. So number. Just a minute I've got to do this bookkeeping while I'm here that way it's it's properly annotated. So it was 4819. Good. Very good. Okay. That's what I was looking for. All right. So we just got benefit from our good first issue exercise. Special thanks to Ravi for doing it. He had just asked a question. How can I help. All right, anything else on on outstanding pull requests. Okay, the next topic is contribute on idea review and so Zina, this is where you are a target for this one we had had a discussion in the Asia time zone session of Docs office hours, proposing some additional candidate ideas. And go ahead Zina. No, nothing. Okay, so here were the here were the ideas that we had and I'll, we'll do more of this discussion after I get this posted in the community dot Jenkins.io inclusive naming you would you and I had discussed that one earlier and we thought yes the replacement of master was with with a controller and slave with agent and blacklist with approve and etc was all good so that you were great with this one. We did last year and it wasn't as successful as as we would have liked, but we could consider it again then this other one if you've got people who want to do Java, and are interested in automated testing. There are some projects that need conversion from an older J unit format to the newer J unit format. And now last year, if I remember correctly, most of the candidates had Java script experience and weren't terribly interested in Java. Is that likely again this year. Yeah, because you know most of people starting out in tech usually start out with web development, Java script and things like that. So, most of the time we usually have more people with JavaScript skills but that's not to say that wants to get people that have Java skills and things like that so. So, Mark, what do we have for JavaScript develop for JavaScript testing. So, for, we don't have, well, all of the JavaScript tests that we have would actually be written in Java and use a web browser to exercise it so that would make them a particularly poor fit for for students just starting in JavaScript because it's even worse to write an automated test, then it is to write in of JavaScript and it is to write J unit based tests, right. So if, if there are some Java interested, we can certainly we could certainly consider that but JavaScript is is not this thing and the, the things that we've got in Jenkins related to JavaScript are probably not well suited to first time developers. We've had some. Okay. So, remember, there's a form for project ideas so that form actually request for all this information so that when we are assigning someone to the project will use those requirements so it request for the skills that are required to work on the project and also the skill level. Whether it's beginner intermediate, whatever. So once we have all this information that's what we used to assign suitable contributors to the project. Good. All right, so, so that we we ought to include. That's a that's a good point we ought to assure that we can answer the project idea questions in our proposals. Yeah. Good. All right. Now, another topic was fix multiple tutorials in particular, the getting started tutorial has some significant gaps. One of my worries about this one is most of the time creating an effective tutorial needs more skills than a first time. A first time person has right they can tell us what's wrong, but they can't tell us how to make it right. So we could we could consider instead, maybe test multiple tutorials and report problems. That's better for a person that's good for a first time user, but it's not a development project. It's a testing project. Yeah. And I assume that you're that the she code Africa contribute on candidates want programming projects more than testing projects. We want all all areas all kind of projects we're not limiting it to development. If we could even get projects that have to do with design or even community management we are open to different because we have contributors from different areas. Last year we had to drop a lot of them because we didn't have projects that suit their skills. Yeah, so design community management outreach program if you're looking for someone that could work with probably the outreach team on programs and things like that, we are open to all those kind of projects also. Okay, all right well so let me hang on let me make a note of this so community management. The design design. Yeah. Okay, so so that that could be a fun one because for instance. Well, I've got to show you this on Jenkins.io as part of Hacktoberfest in the artwork collection we receive new submissions and this is very much very much something that someone who has visual skills is a great help for I got to show you this one because it is so cool. Duchess where there it is. Here is Duchess France and their contribution. Isn't that awesome. And it's just, oh that's cool what a great what a great picture. And, and that kind of thing is quite valuable to the Jenkins project because people love the logos. And if we had a if we had a Jenkins Africa, or something like that from somebody with design skills with art skills. That would be a lot of fun but again I don't know that that's a month long project but doing, doing art like that. Is that feasible do you get any applicants for those kinds of things. Yeah, we get applicants design us. Yes, we do. However, diversity issue. Okay, go ahead. See now. No, no problem. So yeah we do get designers and but the, how would I put it, we need to get or rather have a project that will last them a month as you mentioned something that will keep them busy for at least a month. Mark you mentioned, are they what sort of design are they interested in like user interface design. Because Mark you mentioned that in March we're getting major changes to the user interface. Are there any possible projects related. Would there be leftover work do you know. I, there might be, but the challenge there is that the people who are doing that work right now are not are seem highly unlikely to say who I'm going to take somebody on who's fresh, who's had no experience. They're, they're very advanced expert people who are doing very, very fast evolution of of the UI and and saying oh I'm going to tutor somebody who's brand new will slow them down and ultimately slow them down so badly they'd probably say no I'm not going to do any more tutoring. So, I don't see a lot of. If the person is not a beginner how about if the person is an experienced designer also. And who is just looking to contribute to open source. And even, even then I would hesitate to put attempt to put them on this because some of our most experienced people on the Jenkins project have already realized hey these two people that are advancing the UI are way ahead of us. And so, so I don't think that's now, however we might consider web design improvements for the Jenkins.io site. Okay. There are certainly things for page navigation. This is one that that Meg and I have discussed where, if we look at Jenkins.io I'm going to show you an example of of good and then I'm going to show you an example of bad. So here's the example of of good where when I go to this page it opens notice the expanding and contraction of things on the list. Right hey that's that's pretty reasonable navigation I, I get to see this. It tells me where I am if I click one of these pages it highlights that page. Okay that's good. Now I'm going to show you the bad. So here's the bad in the developer section. When I go here. All right, I pick something like this, I get no hint anywhere over here all there it is but if I pick this, no expanding no contracting. It's the same page, or it's the same site. And yet, I have a terrible experience of a less positive experience here in this section than I did in the other section. So this is a place where we would need somebody but this is a development experience that we need someone with development experience but they would need to be willing to work in the framework that is used to create this site. Okay. So, so that's that's certainly and there's probably a month or more of work there. It sounds like a good project idea. So then again, it's just be a question of just highlighting the project's requirements properly so that we could get so at the end of the day. So my advice having more projects ideas is that it's not compulsory, or it doesn't guarantee that we're going to get people, but then again if we have the project ideas out there, and get people that qualify, we can assign them. Then if we don't, then that means we just don't work on those ideas. So that's it. Okay, yeah, so so we can we can bring those proposals and then you use them as part of your recruiting to try to find people who are interested in participating. Yeah. Good. All right. So let me make a note here. Oops, not there. It's this document. Yes, go ahead. You are saying of you are saying something about designers then. Yeah, do you mean just web designers or you also mean a product designers as well, like a UX or just web designers. No, I think this is something that. Okay. You are UX also web designers. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, so as I mentioned earlier, what we're trying to do with this program is to capture all the fields possible. So, but then again, we are limited. We are limited by the project ideas that we are able to get. So if we don't get project ideas around product management or project management, it's not possible. It means that we cannot. But what we want is to be able to cover all these areas as much as possible exactly both. Yeah, so that's it. So, Elizabeth, I'm, I'm, I'm having difficulty understanding how you would envision product management or project management being involved in, in a relatively short term thing like she code Africa. I rely on my product managers to know deeply all sorts of things about the product and how it behaves and, and I can't imagine getting one of them started in the month that we have for she code Africa contribute on help me understand better what you were envisioning there. Okay, no, I'm doing it. Do you know why I brought up was because it was when they know said that we could actually try out other things and she mentioned community management and design so that was why I just thought about it and I'm like, it's going to be bad if product management to this part of it is a part of it. Well, I, I totally get what you just said now am about it. And I think it makes a lot of sense. Thank you. Okay, got it understood. All right. Well, we have almost reached our time are there any other things in the last one or two minutes before we close. No, that's just for me. So, Zenab, I'll see if I can get time schedule with Jean Mark and I'll propose an alternate time for this meeting for next week. Actually, while you're all here. If Meg I know this will be too early for you so I'm just asking Zenab and Elizabeth. If we move this meeting to or three hours earlier, would it be okay for the two of you or is that too early in your day and that's not workable. Just for next week, just a one time thing so that Jean Mark could join us for next trigger. Next week Thursday. No, next week Thursday to be convenient for me because I have an appointment. Okay. And I'm not sure if I'll be done. How long it will take and all that. So, if it's two hours early and then I'm not sure I'm going to be able to meet it. Okay, so what I'm going to do is, Mark will send a doodle poll to Elizabeth, Zenab, and Jean Mark to find a time. And we'll just record it. Exactly. So that's one thing I wanted to say that if at the end of you were able to get this thing and I'm not able to attend I'll just watch the recording. Well, and, and I think it'd be good if you were there to ask your questions. But if you're not available we have the option to record it. Yeah, we will record it no matter what but it's better to have an audience that can ask questions and hey what about this and what about that. Okay, so I'll send a poll and then we'll, we'll plan to record that session and do it as a question and answer session up to an hour. All right. Okay. Anything else before we close. Nothing from me. Okay thanks everybody. Thanks. All right. See you next week.