 I've seen some amazing changes in recent years, but I think they can do more to enable that more inclusive environment, less bureaucratic, more fast moving, which ultimately is going to provide the innovation necessary, because you can't innovate within a dinosaur-like structure. And corporations know a lot about that. You sometimes have to create an entirely new division that's going to handle the innovation part, because if you get stuck in the recesses of the traditional sort of divisional responsibilities, et cetera, things will be so slowly moving that you'll miss out on the innovation opportunities. So I think there's opportunity for the multilaterals, like the United Nations, to really change and adjust. Professor Nicky Aberhart is my guest on this episode of Inside Ideas. Nicky's life goal is to power people with audacious solutions armed to tackle the globe's most intractable challenges. She seeks to disrupt at the intersection of tech and scalable social impact. She is assistant professor of business at Minerva, teaching startup finance, marketing and global business. She has a master's in international development, an MBA from SAID Business School at Oxford, and a PhD in global sociology. Nicky is on Delta Airlines' global talent team to craft leadership development and mentor culture strategies. She has EVP impact, E3 plus director partnerships of Z School, pioneering a digital platform with influencers, brands and charities so Gen Z can affect change. She works with global citizens, a movement harnessing voices of influencers, world leaders, and corporates with 8 million global citizens to end poverty, raising over 48 billion U.S. dollars in commitments and driving 25 million plus digital actions to set to affect 2.5 billion people's lives. She has many accolades and accomplishments as a presenter at TEDx Oxford and MC and host for NASA Space Center Cross-Industry Innovation Summit at Vienna Power Pioneers Technology Summit where she was the MC and wonderful moderator for a little panel talk that I was on. A moderator and conveyor for San Francisco Professional Business Women of California Conference, Oxford SAID Business School Capstone, Davos World Economic Forum Event and Skoll World Forum for Blockchain AI Impact Investing. I could go on and on but I want to give you one final thing in her bio that's really important, actually two things. She is the co-founder and president of the United Nations Women's Chapter and she has this beautiful quote that says, tackling the globe's most intractable challenges requires audacious solutions. I'm honored to team up with the Minvera faculty and staff as we build the next generation of students, leaders and innovators who will shape a bright future. Welcome to the show, Nikki. It's so good to have you. I will call you, Nikki, because we're kind of getting closer over all these years that our paths have crossed and the last time I believe I saw you wasn't in Bountiful, Utah. That's correct, Mark. Nice to see you as well. Great to reconnect virtually after all of the crazy of 2020. That is absolutely for sure. Tons of crazy and it's always beautiful to reconnect from you and just again for my listeners, we met as you were emceeing, moderating for pioneers and on Austria and the beautiful Hopeburg Alice, wonderful location. They treated us like kings or royalty anyway. I felt that way and did a wonderful job. Although I'm a strange from our colleague who was on the panel with me, but I'm glad that you and I are still connected. That's fabulous. It was lovely to have you, Mark. It was quite an amazing event, wasn't it? The contrast of this very historical palace with the drones flying around and robots roaming this stage and the way they did. They did some kind of a virtual dancing and they did all sorts of amazing, innovative, cool things there. The other thing is not only is our paths crossed because we have a family in that living in certain areas, but you're also very active to date and in the past with global citizens. It's a fabulous movement and I finally made it to the visionary level. I think it's beyond the amount of points you can accumulate on their app and I just love the organization and everything that they do. That's for SDG number one. No poverty, but in reality, have you figured out that it actually ties to almost all the other 17 SDGs? They're inextricably connected to one another. Are they not? We have to simultaneously tackle all of them or we won't make headway on any of them. Absolutely for sure. Right off the bat, I want to get into. You teased it already. We've all been through this crazy time. All these years of experience that you've had and experiencing a lot of work with global poverty and at these events and talking about innovations and seeing both sides of human suffering, environmental problems, but as well as those innovations and social entrepreneurs and education on those people who really want to want to get to a better world. Did any of that prepare you for Black Lives Matter, COVID, the inauguration, and all the other craziness that's gone on during this time? How have you weathered the storm? Absolutely madness. Could have never foreseen, could not have written a playbook that would have incorporated all of the madness we've experienced. However, what it has exposed is not only the cracks and the weaknesses and the brokenness of many of the systems from higher education institutions to inequality both within and across countries to weakness in political systems and the vulnerability of democracies in the United States but around the world. Could not have foreseen that. How have I personally weathered this? Well, I've learned from the best. I've seen the innovators in the space from the young global social entrepreneurs, specifically my Minerva students who are building the businesses of the future that have a profit mechanism so that they are sustainable and scalable but they're embedded in tackling the most intractable challenges around the planet and they have really innovative technologically driven solutions to do that. To what I'm seeing with Global Citizen, my colleagues at Global Citizen who are pulling together the most powerful, the most non-obvious partnerships from civil society to government heads of state to corporate CEOs and founders, to startup founders, to influencers, to musicians, pulling them all together in the most unlikely of ways both in 2020 and 2021 virtually as well as historically our in-person events to really move the needle around those issues related to poverty, all of the SDGs and curating and selecting which is most appropriate in that global moment to really capitalize, to really harness, to really drive the value from Global Citizens to not only build awareness but to essentially really get the dollars and the political will behind movement because we all have to do this together. I mean what Mark I think gets also exposed as I mentioned the cracks in the system, it's as I mentioned earlier they need quality. The poorest of the poor continue to be disorientrized and that pace is accelerating unfortunately. People of color around the world, vulnerable populations, refugee populations and so my heart breaks for them but what it does is light a bigger fire underneath me to really get going and really finding those scalable innovative solutions that are going to make the difference because we don't have time to waste. I feel an absolute urgency to scale up what I was doing before in more meaningful ways now given the challenges that we're facing. So I believe we have a mutual friend from Global Citizens, Deb Kaplan. We do. Oh she's such a lovely person. Yes and she actually was during the lockdown. She did some work for CogEx and she contacted me and ended up doing an event for CogEx with her but she's also done a lot for Global Citizens and I guess first and foremost I'm glad that you weathered. I'm glad that you have these mentors that have really not only given you good examples of how we can get through this but some other operating models and it's really also at the ground level from the bottom up because you've got students who are just kind of starting out on this adventure this journey startups inventors people who want to change the world solve our global ground challenges and you get to see it right on the front lines that development and that excitement of those things so you're really fortunate but also I think during this time you graduate from somewhere finish a degree and do some cool things can you tell us about that you bet yeah so to speak to your first point I mean it's it's it's hugely exciting in watching these students develop because the critics would would say that they have naivete the optimists and I would argue the realists would say no it's simply untethered idealism that is required right now in this time for the type of disruption we need to overhaul the brokenness of the systems and so I have this backstage path to witness it and to help sort of really foster these kids ideals and and help direct them in ways that are really going to make the difference so with respect to my own educational background I never intended to to be a professional student for so many years I mean yikes that wasn't fun but yeah I did complete my PhD over a year and a half ago and and I was also simultaneously doing my MBA at Oxford so I've been a professor with Minerva for nearly three years now and and I've been able to work with this disruptive higher educational approach essentially and so it it really tailors itself to my innovation needs and I consider myself an entrepreneur at the end of the day so it satisfies that and I can also do a bit of academia at the same time so it's working it's definitely working so I I see that you're doing well and I'm glad to hear that but it's also I think there's some form of disruptiveness from you as well I think you sometimes spur the extra thought or in your students to say hey let's think a little bit bigger a little bit more disruptive and I mean it just goes right along with what you said as well during this time it was a time that the microscope was shown on every big problem that we had all the problems and cracks were bubbled to the surface so to say and we really got a microscopic view and what's wrong and what needs to be fixed and besides feeling the great unrest or dis-ease at the current civilization frameworks or systems that we're operating on they're just failing humanity you know and so I love that you're on the front line but I also I'm extremely glad that you're so positive and excited through this crazy time you haven't buried your head in the sand well listen I have those days especially when my teenagers are misbehaving where I simply want to crawl in a hole in the fetal position but at the end of the day can we afford that I mean yes we're human yes it's okay to have really down days and I'll be honest it's been the worst year on record for me but there's also a light at the end of the tunnel and I have to believe that we're not only going to weather this that humanity will come out on top because what we've realized through these challenges is that the human-centric approach and the ecologically centric approach is the only way forward we don't really have an alternative right so for example I also work for Delta Airlines on the the global talent team and we announced losses of over nine billion dollars in 2020 um we were just cited by fortune as being the world's best airline for the 10th year in a row we have an incredible mentor leadership culture at Delta Airlines and we're working to foster those leadership opportunities for our senior level leaders we've seen some huge disruption it's been really hard people have had to take on roles that historically were not theirs that they were less comfortable acquiring and they've rallied so to speak they've done it in beautiful ways they've done it in ways that have demonstrated their resilience their ability to innovate in hard times and I think as a result it's sort of created different pockets different holes it's exposed the gaps but it's created these new sort of opportunity zones that had we not gone through what we did in 2020 we wouldn't have seen you know I could say the same thing for Minerva I can say the same thing for global citizen I mean essentially an organization that really focuses those those global moments and opportunities around huge massive events in a world where a six feet distance and wearing masks is now the norm um you have to completely innovate around a new model right so you find the technological tools available Delta has done that Minerva's done that global citizens done that you pull the best heads in the space those innovators that are going to make it happen and then you recreate you don't have an alternative but in that recreation process there's an amazing opportunity because you have the opportunity to recalibrate to say okay that particular procedure or that process or that orientation or that goal or that mindset was less helpful frankly maybe it wasn't human centric and it wasn't focused on the right goals around saving the planet and so here's the recalibration here's how we're going to sort of reorient and recreate and and so I've found across these industries and sectors this opportunity zone which I think is really going to propel us forward into 2022 and beyond love that did now were you working online with the students as well before the pandemic or did that take a drastic switch as well yeah we were uniquely positioned at Minerva so we were essentially a startup six years ago and our founder and CEO Ben Nelson he is a tech entrepreneur serial tech entrepreneur he went to some of the biggest VCs in Silicon Valley he said listen here's the market need we have some of the most competent capable students around the world who are simply either not getting into Ivy League schools or because of visa restrictions or socioeconomic status currency exchange rates for example they're not able to attend these best schools and so we want to create an opportunity and essentially democratize higher ed so he had no problem amassing the support of a lot of the biggest sort of capital yielding institutions and so we've built this business and this non-profit organization in the higher education university to essentially offer this education to these students so our students hail from over a hundred countries they live as cohorts in seven global cities over four years but we have an entirely new pedagogy a new curriculum and a new tech platform from which we deliver our tech platform is virtual so before zoom was the thing I mean it was a thing but it wasn't a thing like it's a thing now yeah we were up there with Tesla and others as far as profits exactly we were already delivering this new pedagogy and curricula vis-a-vis this tech platform so my colleagues faculty at the university live all over the world and so we deliver to these students who happen to be living together as cohorts all over the world as well so we love the model where we impacted adversely by the last year certainly in some regards but in other ways we were already uniquely positioned better than others conversely you know other service industries entertainment but non-profit organizations have really been hit hard and so you know it's it's working with those partners it's it's continuing to innovate but yes Minerva's been uniquely positioned to do well throughout all of this before the pandemic I was actually working with the sky team which is Delta as part of the sky team on implementing the sustainable development goals into actionable items that could be done throughout the entire sky team as well as the new things that were coming along in January 2019 there were Sunoo international implications around Corsia which is the carbon offsetting scheme from the United Nations agency around international air travel that was you know what's the future of aviation how we're going to do carbon offsetting how we're going to get those schemes and how can we implement the SDGs to create a better future and actually on Valentine's Day in February your Delta's president came out and CEO came out and basically said you know we're going to go carbon neutral where he also said something caveated before that that we're doing very well we're going to give back to our employees and and take care of them and and shares but we're going to go carbon neutral and and here's how we're going to do it through innovation through carbon offsetting through through these technologies and it's not going to be easy but we're committing to it I think he said March 1st is the day it goes live we're going to do it and then the craziness occurred hit it was unbelievable and I'd so I actually spoke about about it at DLD and on stage in Boma and in Paris and in front of you know what a couple four or five thousand people and and mentioned Delta and the great ambitions that they said that it was a historical precedence that an airline industry did that and at the same time just before that in January Microsoft had made their historical ambitions to say that they're going to do a fund but they they says we're going to remove our historical carbon emissions so there it was really the decade starting out to be the decade of action and some super things positive ways going forward and then the pandemic and matter of fact I was stuck I was in the United States because I was doing an event with Al Gore in Las Vegas to train climate leaders and I was a mentor at that event but that got cancelled as well but and I had several other events in the U.S. and so I was in the in Utah matter of fact visiting family during that time when President Funk at that time came on and you know did the lockdown and and then the day I was supposed to fly out there was an earthquake and so you know it's been a trying and interesting time but as you know as well I've I've been working remotely I'm from the U.S. I live in Hamburg Germany and and been kind of living in the future working in the future the the humans of of new work how how do we work and educate each other but during that time that relates to to Minerva is basically we did a setup for school age children who were stuck at home with not enough computers with no internet no no schooling on on and on so we came up with Ted education and the United Nations and UNESCO and the World Economic Forum and many others and we created what was called Earth School a 60-day quest and just in the first seven days of that pro launch of this project for kids who are now need some education and try environment and things into that do part of it online and the other part of the quest outside in nature to rediscover what's going on in our planet seven million people in the first week and then 70 million by the time we hit the first month and it was very successful and still available to to go through but that brings me to this kind of a transition to education that that we needed talk about in a dress because it's it's one area that's been stuck in the dark ages almost for a long time in many not not all schools but in many aspects especially grade school and and just some old old ways of learning old ways of teaching old technologies and if you were to look at a high school or a school you know back in the 40s or 50s it looks pretty much the same as it does today in most places especially in developing countries and before I get to the question I have to just caveat on august 21st 2020 we lost Sir Ken Robinson and I had brown martin brown on the show who was a colleague and also did a book together with Sir Ken Robinson but he was a great mentor and a great person around education transforming changing the entire educational system and setting the vision of how we can do it differently I see that when I look at you I see that when I hear your stories about Minerva that you're really want to do things differently in the education system and that you're also seeing over the years all the problems bubbling to the surface what are you doing to address it what's going on give us the exciting news because I know it's not a doom and gloom I can see in your eyes the optimism of where we're going and that's really what I want to hear about I love that thanks for sharing your experience with EarthQuest I think that's a nice sort of case study of what can be done um so I'd like to speak from you know address your questions from essentially two different angles number one is we need to sort of revolution area revolutionize and really be informed by the the latest in learning science which teaches us how to teach best right so that we have active engaged learners so that the retention is there the creativity is there the cognitive abilities are developed the communication skills are provided and there is amazing research there that really sort of illuminates what we can do differently right as you said we're stuck in the 1950s model it's antiquated and it's not working so we can change how we do that we can change our expectations of when students enter a classroom having prepared in advance so we're not simply regurgitating information and on repeat but rather how can we help take them next level and in deep learning far transfer opportunities where they can take one concept or one framework and apply it across contexts to all different aspects of their lives irrespective of what professional careers they pursue so if we harness that in the right way and I would argue Minerva is doing a pretty good job and there are other players in the space also working to sort of revolutionize that that's a first step I think the second is a more structural larger issue around the requirements now and given the technologies we have at our disposal the requirements that education needs to be really blended there's nothing that can that can replace that important one-on-one mentorship model right and there is important sort of social dynamic of being in a same physical space at some point but in order to really scale education and provide the quality that's needed we need a blended learning models in delivering education vis-a-vis different modalities so part e-learning part you know virtual live sessions part face-to-face part one-on-one mentorship models and that's important but then we say okay we have x billion number of children around the world how many of those kids live in developing countries and how many of them have access to the digital technologies that are needed in order to enable this kind of learning environment not very many of them right exacerbated by the pandemic exactly so I have a friend at UNICEF who's trying to raise funds currently to provide any sort of education to the most vulnerable children around the world kids living in refugee camps in Lebanon and the border of Bangladesh right the Rohingya refugee children living there all over the world vulnerable populations in urban spaces children who are homeless all of these kids are in jeopardy of being left further behind as education sort of comes to pace with where it needs to be in the 21st century they're at greater risk right so we see an increasing divide between the house and the have-nots so it's an important sort of reality to understand so that we can target our systemic change more appropriately how do we help enable digital access bandwidth issues to kids in these spaces they the hardware that they need in order to go online they have to be able to to access that if they really want to be part of the global currency the global economy the global society of the 21st century right and so I think it it becomes our burden but most importantly our opportunity to help facilitate the right partnerships get the capital to where it needs to be think of innovation of innovative solutions that are disruptive not on the margins not like a slight tweak to an existing system or like here's our here's our education while we're going to just tweak this element but rather like totally revamp those systems in order to make it more equitable and more accessible to all kids around the world you've opened up a couple areas that I want to go a little bit deeper into so I had Audrey Tang the minister of Taiwan digital minister of Taiwan on the podcast and he said broadband is a human right you know and I really had to think about that you know and it is so true that we I mean in the pandemic we've heard it you know that kids are going to the McDonald's or the local fast food place sitting outside in the parking lot to get internet to do their homework or you know things like things like that you know and then also during the pandemic there was from a friend of mine Tristan Harris who came out with the social dilemma which is kind of adding the aspect of social digital tech you know and he he really talked about how we need to have humane technology that's going in the right direction that's pushing us in the right solutions um which leads me how are what are you working on how is Minerva working on these that this uh the the adults the entrepreneurs those that we are pushing into this future aren't running into some of these older problems and how are they working on these other solutions where if they have people from um different countries from all over the world studying with Minerva do they there's got to be some broadband or some connection issues sometimes with with those people and are they doing are there some things in place that bring hope or that resolve that through the school yeah excellent I like what your guest shared with respect to you know re-envisioning broadband as a human right and you know and therefore I think it it puts um really front and center that responsibility we have to um enable access listen at the end of the day um I worked in the nonprofit space for over 20 years but I also work in the in the private sphere and as I become older I essentially made an intentional pivot towards business because I wanted to tackle the same global intractable challenges but I saw that there were a lot of important business solutions that could provide um uh growth and opportunity in ways that kind of sometimes the antiquated multilateral approach um and even the nonprofit space just didn't have the capital to do right and so how could the the private sector inform or shape or at least partner up with the best of the multilaterals and the best of the nonprofits and the best of civil society to really make that happen because there's a lot to be learned from business in terms of efficiency scalability um ability to grow rapidly right and so if if we're talking about access to broadband I mean this is in part a private sector innovation right and so I think we need to enable the businesses to do their best work but we need to change the incentive structure right we need to tap the best of their corporate social responsibility or enable those team-ups with those boots on the ground which are often the nonprofit organizations certainly civil society um government entities and the multilateral institutions um to really say this is what needs to be done you can provide the capital and you have a lot of the know-how so let's create this team up because you know we don't have a magic wand to essentially say here's broadband everyone has access we need to change the incentive structure for all of the stakeholders so that that becomes attainable and and I I see some really interesting models out there that are doing that you know Starlink broadband as one and there's a bunch others yeah really great excellent example that's it that's exactly what I'm talking about um so I see appetite out there and I say differently than even what I witnessed 10 years ago there is more of a desire coming from numerous stakeholders across sectors and industries to team up um I think we're all as a human race realizing that like redundancy is wasteful and that we simply don't have the time horizon to experiment in silly sort of isolated siloed ways so like how can we increase impact let's do it together so there's this level of collaboration that I think has become the norm um with the best companies and with the most innovative governments and with the best social entrepreneurs um we're we're really saying okay how do we create that collaboration where is that powerful team up um that's going to you know enable brand bend access to Syrian refugees all throughout the Middle East right what what is that going to look like and what's going to be required of each of those stakeholders in order to make that happen and how are those incentive structures and we can say it's a carrot and stick approach but how can we change those incentive structures um to foster that we're definitely on a path and roadmap towards you know broadband for all there's not just starting broadband there's many others emerging but it's this um one thing that you you say about business and how not only the opportunities there but the the biggest force for impact and disruption to to get that world where we need to be um which leads nicely into to kind of my first real big question for you and that is um you feel like you're a global citizen and how would you feel about a world without nations borders divisions of humanity one from another and the reason I asked that I want to tie it back to to what you said about business believe it or not businesses have been operating as global citizens for a long time if you look at a trade map a digital trade map from satellite data um pretty much global you know if you look at the way food moves around our world food is a global citizen definitely during this time of a pandemic uh the pandemic's been a global citizen but uh there's many things that are global citizens and operating that way for quite some time but in a time of like this humanity we've been locked down we've been separated from each other we've been distanced and and this us against them type of thing has really emerged and so I kind of caveat it with that question with those buy-ins yeah the the cynics would say well that's great thinking of a borderless world what a utopian ideal right and we've seen the rise of nationalism um these these sort of movements and flow but it's been very stark um what has happened in in recent years both in the united states as well as around the world um and you know one could argue that these these borders are in essence antiquated because it's trying to restrict the flow it's like a fast moving river that gravity is pulling down down the mountain towards the ocean right and nothing can really stop it but attempts will be made to down mop that river or you know to put put some sort of stone in the way to sort of divert the path um but is is it really possible and is it is it useful to do that I would argue no um but I think we also have to cooperate with people who maybe across the aisle maybe have very divergent opinions in terms of how they see solving global problems um and we're so divisive around the world right now that I think we have to find some sort of middle ground and so however we want to message that can look different but I think ultimately if we speak to everyone's sort of best ideals that this is the globe we live on it's in all of our best interest that we come together in meaningful ways to to save the ecology of the planet and also to provide opportunities for every human to be his or her best self right and so you know what what does that actually look like I think it's going to be different for every person but we can find some sort of middle ground because if just this side is just hacking away at it and this side is is pushing directly in opposition to it we won't make any movement we have to find a middle ground and sort of move towards something together I'll give an illustration um at Minerva we provide foundational concepts um and then we ask them to sort of build their understanding in their case studies in their context of the real world around those things and one of those concepts is hashtag system dynamics where we try to illuminate to students that everything is interconnected right there's a larger system and to borrow a really bad um a really bad sort of airline analogy it's the 35 000 foot view here you are on the ground you're on the tarmac let's say mark you're going from Hamburg to Salt Lake City Utah you're going to take off and you know what that's like like you're looking around the infrastructures here these humans are sitting next to you like you're familiar with that environment and then you take off in that plane and as you ascend everything on the ground becomes smaller and smaller and smaller and you start identifying these different like almost nodes here's a car but it's a node and here's a house and it's a node in a school and a grocery store and all of these things and then you start seeing it from a very different perspective the higher you go and when you cap at 35 000 feet which is your cruising altitude you're going to see things very differently right it'll be more of a systems perspective because now you're seeing not the nodes of a car to a house but you're seeing a city to a city right an ocean to a river and it looks very different and so encouraging my students and thinking about how we're solving all of these problems it's like let's let's reach into each of our human best selves and irrespective of your politics and how insane I may feel that was you know your choice you made or you know that thing you're saying about kind of this nationalistic take or trying to create subsidies to restrict trade or whatever it is um let's put those things aside let's kind of get rid of the ideology in the dogma for just a moment and let's try to see that 35 000 foot view together and then enumerate identify what your top three sort of objectives will be and then proceed together we got to do it together absolutely for sure so I I've got a couple books here I'm well I don't know if I should show them to you because you're speaking to my heart one is the systems view of life from Fritz Hof Capra it's the Capra course that that he gives on the systems view of life the other one is thinking in systems and the limits to growth from Don Ella Meadows who talks about systems thinking and dynamic modeling I'm a big dynamic modeling person and I really speak a lot quite a bit about platforms systems dynamic models for businesses that the the most successful organizations companies in the world are run on on these type of models that address all facets of a very complex system but the book I wanted to show you was called the overview effect it's from Frank White it's basically that cosmic perspective that overview effect that astronauts get about 550 people to date have had that perspective it's the same that you're discussing with a 35 000 foot view from an airplane from from a different view of perspective it changes it's a shift in cognitive awareness it's a shift in how we see our world our home I'm not sure if I would say we become a node or become a number but we have this cognitive shift in awareness that says I'm on the same boat as Nikki I'm on the same boat as those people from China and Africa and all over and the same spaceship earth and I'm not a passenger I'm a crew member I can put my hands on that steering wheel of the spaceship earth and guide at least my direction to the future a little bit of the earth's direction of the future and so I'd love I mean you just speak to my heart when when you say those things but I mean I kind of knew that as well from from pioneers and different things that we we we need to to take this uh system's view approach to life this bigger view of the world we live in and find that middle ground to to to move forward and so that really leads me to my hardest question that I have for you today and it is the burning question WTF and it's not the swear word although maybe you you said it in the past pandemic time or in the past year it's what's the future what's the future well so I mean you're saying we find middle ground you're saying you know saying this bigger overview but I'd like to know from you and not even so on a political or or bigger level kind of what do you think is the solution for the future what's the future where are we going what's the roadmap or the plan what is the roadmap so I think I think you have to get clear on what the ultimate objective is right and I would say happiness and ability to live as as everyone would like and in order to live out his or her dreams so how do we do that well we have to have a beautiful sustainable planet to live on and we need to have education systems that enable this we need to have career development opportunities etc etc we need to have societies where people are supported um so you know the roadmap I can I can see it a couple different ways mark I see like these different units of analysis first of all there's the personal like how how do I accelerate and support that ultimate objective well I think it's the way I treat other human beings right so I would hope I would be the person who would treat the janitor at my office building the same way I would treat an influencer at a global citizen festival the same I hope I would be that kind of person I hope I would be kind and thoughtful and respectful of people's differences and and really helps support other people so you know on a personal level it starts with me and it always starts with me um and then on a societal level I think you know I loved your analogy in in looking at space because um as you mentioned I was the emcee for NASA's cross industry summit that happened at the space center this past year it's in just November past last November yeah I guess a year and four months ago it feels like two months ago um it was interesting there because who did we pull together we had futurists we had musicians we had world-renowned violists we had founders and CEOs of drone companies providing lifesaving drugs in sub-saharan Africa alongside senior vice presidents from Amazon and Salesforce and other huge corporates right we had government leaders and what were they doing on a societal level they were re-envisioning exactly what you're talking about right and everybody had a different approach to it and it was the power of that synergy that was created by saying here's a common goal now how do we create the right roadmap and one would say well in my startup founder space this is what I can do and this other magician would say well I'm an influencer and I work in these different kinds of spaces this is what I can do and we would sort of map on to those different sort of mini objectives and then we would make like a pinky promise to one another that we were going to do something with respect to that and then hold one another accountable right so on a societal level I think that's a great template to follow it's pulling together all those diverse voices it's making goals together and then keeping one another accountable and then I would say on the largest level which is just humanity generally we can't lose sight of the fact that a friend in a Bangladeshi refugee camp is worthwhile and should be able to have access to the same types of opportunities I do and so if I feel interconnected if I if I say wow there was this terrible earthquake in Indonesia it may not be immediately impacting me in this moment but it does impact me right or here's a supply chain I just I picked up these Amazon or Amazon delivered Nike shoes and it happened to be made in these seven countries and one of these countries happens to have really poor labor laws and there's a girl my age working in one of those factories and she's adversely affected by that so therefore I am adversely affected by that and so if we see one another as being interconnected and interdependent it makes it easier to go back to that whole concept of what am I doing when I talk to the janitor at the grocery store right and at my office building and so individual society and as humanity I really think that's the way we we've reached that ultimate objective so you know I'm a sustainable development goal advocate and the reason I asked that question is really and I've asked it to all my guests and many others I've done kind of a study over the last uh since 2015 asking people what does a world that worked for everyone look like for them and it's just another twist on what's the future because a lot of us were all over the world and I'm kind of over-generizing now but you know whether we're in the United Kingdom or in the US or in Amazon or or Africa or Europe each one of us has different governances and different rules and regulations and laws and and for me I see them as business models I see them as models are a roadmap for the future and so what I do is I take those models and I push them out into the future say this current model that whether it's from for Bolsonaro or Putin or Shea or the UK or or the European Union what's the model we're operating on and let's push it out in the future and what does that future look like based on that model and is someone a government delivering that future to me or am I part of this the green new deal or this whatever whatever plan there is and you would be surprised how many people were like I mean you know I I think it's this it's that it's for them a lot of people have it for them and and it's really it's really chilling and it's interesting because what I found out is one nobody's ever mentioned the sustainable development goals not one person which is crazy for me and no one's ever mentioned the green new deal no one's ever mentioned the doughnut economy nobody's ever mentioned planetary boundaries or or any other model that has has been presented not even regenerative capitalism nobody's mentioned which which are some models in place and so a person a ship without a model without a roadmap without a plan for the future is is just a drift is never going to reach that goal because they don't have it or they don't know how to do it and what most of us are what what happens is we're waiting for someone else to deliver the future to us and what what we've seen in the past and what we've seen during this pandemic is that there's more unrest there's more dis-ease in the world because our our civilization frameworks are just not working for us all anymore there's people suffering and dying and impoverished and and because of the rules and the laws and the governance that we have in certain parts of the world and and we have this dis-ease and so I want to just take this opportunity if you don't mind to say I think we've we've missed a historical precedence I think we've totally let it go over our heads or we didn't even realize what a historical moment we're living in in a time the united nation's sustainable development goals the 17 sustainable development goals were developed and released on September 25th 2015 six oh you know going into the sixth year now and they are the world's first ever global moonshot they are a historical precedence for the first time in human history have we had 197 countries come together for the first time ever and agree on a roadmap a plan an action targets and indicators monies and actions steps that need to be taken to just get us to December 2030 just to 2030 and to try to keep us at 1.5 degrees of warming if you know anything about politics or governance or countries it's hard enough for two of them to agree where they're going to go eat lunch or what movie they're going to watch but 197 agreed on a roadmap for a better future it is a plan it is a plan for the future now that's it's not perfect it's not the best because it only takes it so far and what but what it does it creates a sustainable infrastructure there's still work to do and we're still going to need plans and goals afterwards but it's so vital to know that that that does exist and it is a roadmap and there's any question that you would have that would need to be answered whether it's from a business perspective or a personal perspective of what you could do and how you could get engaged in those goals to ensure yourself a better future is there and and so that's what that's what I'd like to say because that I'm an advocate I have to say it and and and I would take in stealing a little bit of your time on the show to kind of discuss that but I also know from your advocacy work from global citizens and other advocacy work that you've done for non foundations and nonprofits and that how do you feel about trying to find a system of plan that really works for everyone a world that works for everyone not just for a few but for everyone you know excellent question given the widespread unprecedented support for the sustainable development goals I think as you say it's it's imperfect but we have a plan right so why reinvent the plan let's let's work on those different aspects of that roadmap where we can move the needle in the most impactful ways like you said it I mean historical in terms of that type of support from such a vast array of countries and different stakeholder entities so given that we're relatively on the same page with respect to this let's just do the work now right let's do the work around those issues so I think what it takes is the individual stakeholders to just calibrate around like where are my core competencies you know we ask that of businesses all the time like when you're involved in the startup where are your core competencies how do you see yourself across the space you know you have competitors in the space you know in in in the case of the sustainable development goals here's a you know sustainable goal number one two three four five six whichever it is where are your core competencies within that and how can you make the greatest contribution and most importantly you're not going to do it alone so what are other players in that space either competitors or competitors or collaborators that you can team up with to make it meaningful to make it scalable something that you've also addressed in and the beginning of our conversation is so the real successes from Delta and from Minerva and some other organizations that you've worked with and and I want to just make it clear so I've been talking about this at least since 2015 but environment a lot longer and there was always this hesitation especially from a business aspect that it's expensive it's a more compliant that's how can we do our reporting it's corporate social responsibility it's expensive and hard to do sustainability it's not very profitable as their return that has been flipped on its head so for at least two years we have actually blown the shutters off off of that type of thinking totally because this last year was the proof that those organizations that had made the shift like Delta and going carbon neutral and making these efforts towards the sustainable and that it's just a better business model there is such a return even in a time where Delta was so so hard hit as they come back it's only going to function and show that it's a better business model not only for the earth but for that organization as far as investments returns and a rally of your employees that they're working for a company that is really working on one of these systems dynamic business models a platform business model that takes people and planet and the environment closely and into consideration and all that they do BlackRock, Microsoft, Delta and thousands of other organizations 25 or no 26 out of 28 on the Morningstar review all sustainable index funds outperform their conventional counterparts I think it was 8 out of 10 or 9 out of 10 sustainable index funds, NICI index, NASDAQ, New York Stock Exchange, S&P 500, S&P Global on and on all four quarters of the most economic downturn in the worst year we've faced since the Spanish flu all did well they weathered fairly well they they were continuing to go pretty where compared to their conventional counterparts meeting those who weren't doing anything sustainability environmental protection or human health and so there is is the proof that we've been waiting for that it's a better model that there are better models that exist out there that can unify us as global citizens that can give us a better model to operate with for the future and so I you know I not to heart but you you said it when you said that that's what I'm hearing that's what's going through my mind that wow yeah exactly here's the proof but some people don't see for some reason that's not always seen and so I'd like to get your perspective on that as well. Love it I'll speak to two aspects of what you said the first with respect to the critique around a lot of the multilateral sort of bureaucracy that's associated with that I would actually echo that I think just like any other institution multilateral institutions need to innovate and part of that is getting rid of a lot of the bureaucracy which makes entry into the system buy in a little bit more difficult for individual players to accept so I I've seen some amazing changes in recent years and but I think they can do more to enable that more inclusive environment less bureaucratic more fast moving which ultimately is going to provide the innovation necessary because you can't innovate in within a dinosaur like structure right and corporations know a lot about that like you you sometimes have to create an entirely new division that's going to handle the innovation part because if you get stuck in the recesses of the traditional sort of divisional responsibilities etc things will be so slowly moving that you'll miss out on the innovation opportunities so I think there's opportunity for the multilaterals like the United Nations to to really change and adjust secondly to making the business case you provided a lot of amazing illustrations of how it is in a business's best interest to do things the right way for the right reasons you can make as you said that the return on investment argument it's better for a business it's better for your revenue at the end of the day um you mentioned uh Delta CEO Ed Bastian I have so much respect for him he's a wonderful man look at what he's done pre-pandemic in announcing the attempt for carbon neutrality and by the way he was teaming up with global citizen other advisors like you in the space to to to really make this happen and then the pandemic hit and you know we've lost as I mentioned billions of dollars but what has Ed done he's become an even greater more impactful leader not just within aviation but across all of business and outside of business why because he's taken the moral imperative in many regards he's addressed the hard issues around more diversity equity and inclusion in the workplace and you know he was just interviewed I believe it was on CNN just two weeks ago saying yeah we have a problem I'm looking around Delta and other C-suite executives and others in the space and I'm realizing that we do not have enough people of color middle management very different general you know employee base but like in the highest levels of this organization things need to change and he's been very forthright about that he also took a stand with Black Lives Matter he's taken a stand against a lot of government policies that were harmful and so corporate leaders can do that and they can make the business case to their executive teams and to their boards of directors saying that you know as Ed's done this may not make the most financial sense for example to eliminate middle seats from our sales pool through April as he's done and continue to sort of enlarge that but because he's teamed up with a mail clinic and this is what they're suggesting is the right thing to do given the pandemic conditions we live under he did it and you could say that Delta's brand equity which has by the way a monetary value um has increased exponentially and when things pick up the customer base will not forget that they will not forget the stand that Delta made to do things the right way right and so as you said you can make a business case to corporates you can speak about startup founders and say let's let's create a sustainable business that has profit generation but that also has a social and ecological goal let's create you know the the teams um your employee base where you have you know access to childcare and you're you're providing living wages like that just feels right and you can still make profit around your products and services and then go to the government entities and say you know you have a responsibility to innovate here to governments um you can't sit stagnant like you need to reform your education systems you can be on private entities to help you with that um you need to get the funding for for what you need to do to innovate and you have an obligation and a responsibility to represent the people who put you into office and to serve those disenfranchised populations so I think on all levels um as you're saying you can make a case as to why this is the right way to proceed and essentially the only way to proceed well one last thing and then I'll done harping on the uh sustainable development goals a lot of people kind of blows by them they don't understand um what what to you what does the word development mean development um well I think you have the old notion of international development from like an economist perspective that said you developed towards a certain level of socioeconomic status as individuals in a country and this is the way to do it here's your pathway it's a linear trajectory and ready set go yeah um we learned that that didn't necessarily work and so you know people like me who subscribe to different ways say we don't want to throw out capitalism entirely the baby out with the bathwater however we have to address that inequality is higher than it's ever been and therefore we subscribe to inclusive capitalism you know the circular economy the donut concept as you were talking about and on and on and on and and as a result we have to sort of recalibrate around not only defining what development means but that it's not a linear path and so every uh group of people needs to sort of identify for themselves what they deem as development and what they want to work towards and then we just enable them to do it it's absolutely you're absolutely right it's uh so true it's very far-reaching though because not only isn't an individual thing it's individual development on education and your own but it's economic development which is for for decades has been very linear and in certain respects and then there's been some technological advancements that have had the exponential curve on them but break it down even further a development is something you're seeing a residential development a commercial development it's what builds an economy so without anything there without anything built in the built environment any products there is no economy without planning the seed without building a house building a school there is no development not only personal but not only economy development economic development because there's no learning or sleeping or anything going on and so to throw the word sustainable in front of development it's the infrastructure sustainable development is an infrastructure that will support us in the future and to be sustainable means to have enough resources and enough money to pay your employees enough resources to produce your products in the future to sustain oneself for future generations in the future and a sustainable development is an infrastructure that will ensure that our kids our grandkids and future generations will not be left with the ruins that we've built up that we haven't continued to develop that we haven't continued to get up to speed with our exponentially growing world and so it's really nice to have that knowledge that actually we're working towards that better future towards better education towards homes that are more passive and energy efficient and and ones that aren't having a big impact on their environment and more importantly that that food is not causing human suffering the lack of or that which we eat whether it's malnutrition or obesity and also having a ripple effect on our environment because it's not the oil, coal and gas industry it's not the airline industry that's the biggest cause on human suffering and environmental problems it's our agriculture, seafood, food and beverage industry the biggest impact on human health, human suffering and our environmental problems I only have three questions left for you and then I'm done and and we'll leave you a little bit room on the on the floor to kind of tell us if there's anything you missed to to you would like to share with us but these are selfish questions that I'm asking for my audience I want to give them something that they can take back from our conversation and maybe apply into their lives if there was one message you could depart that was a sustainable takeaway and had the power to change their life what would it be your message so many angles I could take but likely the most important to me would be to create the conditions in your life to become a purposeful leader and I've shared this on other podcasts before but I had a really unique meeting with the head of entrepreneur development for Google Metamed Oxford Puneet Argywal and he had been hired by the C-suite executives and the founders of Google to train them in their own entrepreneurial journeys he'd worked with over 10,000 leaders and met with them at headquarters in California and he said you know Nikki out of all of these 10,000 leaders I've worked with how many do you suppose I would consider true leaders and I said I don't know I'm super curious I have no idea 20% he said no 0.1% and he said it is those people who differentiate by them themselves by the purpose that drives everything they do as leaders and so I would encourage each of us to get clear on what our purpose is find the headspace to really be reflective and see what your north star is what what is important to you you know further to your analogy like what is that societal structure that house that we want to build and you know how do I find purpose in that large overarching goal and so every individual decision from taking this particular job or how I interface in this in this board meeting or you know which organizations I choose to align myself with are going to be very intentional because you're architecting your own future as a purposeful leader and when you do that with authenticity and when you do that with passion and you know as I say to my students it's the things that keep you up at night because they're so disconcerting but they also get you out of bed in the morning um you'll find purpose and it's that purpose that's going to drive you and inspire others to find their own purpose as well what have you experienced in your professional journey so far that you would love to have known from the start this is also part of the conversation I had with Puneet because he looked over my resume and he said wow nicky you've sort of done all these different things do people ever struggle as they try to pigeonhole you into one thing you know is she an academic is she you know just exclusively in the business world is she a non-profit person and they can't and they said occasionally and he said if if they ever sort of criticize you for that you know what you should say to them and and I said what and he said say thank you because if you've been true to your purpose in all of that you've known exactly what you were doing so for me it would be to question myself less and to follow intuition in like does this feel right to be a part of this is this the skill that I need to get movement around the needle for this thing do I want to be aligned to this specific person you know is it important for me to attend this conference or should I instead be at this other place or with my children right and you know it's it's trusting myself but it's also like constantly being intentional about that decision-making because oftentimes I have a choice of good good good or good better best or bad awesome um but you know being intentional about that decision making um I think could have saved some time for me I totally agree what and this is the last question uh what should young innovators potential teachers professors in your field be thinking about if they are looking for ways to make a real impact especially in the future of education I would say trying to think of the most innovative ways deploying the best technical or excuse me technological tools we have at our disposal to um solving for the digital divide right that's all I have for you today it's been a sheer pleasure we could literally talk for hours you're like uh are we going to have enough content to cover well we we could talk for days uh that's all I have unless there's something that you didn't get a share with us that it would you would like to tell us no I'm I'm really satisfied with this conversation mark it's been wonderful and I've learned a lot from you as well so thanks so much and and thanks to all the listeners I thank you so much Nikki and you have a wonderful day you too bye bye