 It's a breakfast and plus TV Africa many thanks for joining us and being part of the show this morning first conversation right here a seizure of security as We battle against insecurity The federal government is in Mac 1.53 trillion are to prosecute the ongoing anti-insurgency fight in the country. This was contained in the 20.51 trillion are 2023 budget proposal Presented to the National Assembly by President Mohammed the Buhari on Friday the 7th of October Now findings indicate that out of this 1.35 trillion are the Ministry of Defense and Amp forces have been allocated over 1.248 trillion are to fight Boko Haram bandits and other anti-insurgency wars in the 2023 appropriation deal personnel expenditure will go up over 1 trillion are overhead costs 90.961 billion are and capital expenditure 156.294 billion in recent years Niger has increased this military spending and Defense budget to enhance its military power and further improve security according to the World Bank in 2016 Niger approve a defense budget of 1.72 billion dollars The budget for the following year was 1.62 billion dollars, which showed a 5.92 percent decline in 2018 the military spending budget was 2.04 billion dollars 26.02 percent increase over the previous year's figure. However this decline by 8.95 percent in 2019 when the military budget stood at 1.86 billion dollars But it increased to 2.4 billion dollars in 2020 and the country increases military spending by a massive 56 percent in 2021 to reach 4.5 billion dollars the it also moved from 2016 in 2016 to 2022 where Nigeria spent over 19.9 billion in total on security alone Nigeria has toppled the list of countries in sub-Saharan Africa with the highest defense spending 5.8 billion dollars in the whole of Africa on the other hand Algeria has 9.7 billion dollars spent for military purchases Morocco followed after Niger with 5.4 billion dollars and overall not Africa was the region Allocating the largest budget to national defense on the continent according to data published by Statistia in April 2022. I mean these are the statistics but this morning We have an expert who joins the conversation Dixon Osage, who's a criminologist and global security analyst Dixon. Thank you for joining us I like to share your thoughts I mean on the recent proposed budget for you know defense and security One thing I could say we are not But in a joint state For support Two weeks ago we had They don't have funds We'll take out our It's right now. I'm I don't have an issue But you look for them Which is very very This trillions of We need to It is a In the Nigerian army Multidimensional security threat So the funds will be allocated to appropriate quarters that what about accountability? We're not talking about accountability in our part of this world Every given nation the military must give account of the expenditure How do you spend this money? Soldiers, I like to bring you back again and that's because we had poor communication I mean when you started with your thoughts it was almost impossible to hear you but so let's let's start off again My question is your thoughts on the recent budget or budget proposal for 2023 by the federal government Hey, we are we are very rich And uh while ago we made to understand that we are broke that we cannot take back our students We cannot take our students back to school. That is the answer strike That was what was working to my mind however Uh, I'm not what I'm not bothered about these funds that is going to defense But my own worry here is the return of security investment in every given nation when a country or a government Deploy such kind of funds the government in return is suspected to have Security return of investment that's return on security investment Which simply means that you and I Can move around freely without being intimidated or being co-hosted by these criminal elements That means we can be able to move we can be able to travel by road And see without being intimidated So now looking at these funds that tells you that we don't have issues from this project From the strategic center of gravity The problem we're having is operational activity on tactics That is why we are still suffering from the state of insecurity today Now another problem we also have is accountability How do we account for these funds? What are the people in charge to ensure that these funds are not being misappropriated? Because security is becoming a insecurity is becoming a business in Nigeria There are some people that don't want this security issues to end because of this Magnanimous funds that the federal government are releasing. So if we'll have an effective Accountability I tell you for free that Nobody will come to the Nigerian place and begin to divert funds But I wish the military were and I want to encourage them to carry out an effective counterinsurgency And ensure they bring Nigeria back to a state of peace because it stands We are in a mixed situation security wise Well, um, so I understand the fact that it's important that we pay attention to what the returns will be It's more like you are investing a certain amount and it's expected that you should have an outcome And that's what we should be looking at. We'll get to that, you know in no time But let's also look at the fact that in all of this if we're saying that uh 20 point Let's call it 20 trillionaire. That's what we're budgeting for The government is also planning to borrow 8.8 trillionaire to fund the 2023 budget The question here is what do we even get all of these funds? It's a lot. And so We're going to be borrowing, right? Because we don't have so do you think that this is even A rational thing to do. Do you think that this even makes any sense? How do we even solve this when we're going to be borrowing at the end of the day and we're looking at 1.35 trillion Well, I will answer your questions from two perspectives The first point is if We are going to borrow these funds from external forces And these funds We mitigate the high speed of intercuting in Julia And they show that our soldiers Are protected our military are protected The society is protected our territorial space is protected our water site and waterways are protected Then I will accept or agree with the government to borrow That if we are to borrow these funds and we don't have return on security investment That is to say on the other hand, we cannot move freely in Nigeria We cannot travel freely in Nigeria and our soldiers are being keyed like chickens Our police officers are being keyed like chickens by these criminal elements What is the essence of borrowing? Because the whole essence of borrowing is to meet your demand is to meet Your expectations So I don't think we need to borrow to bring Nigeria to a state of peace If we have an effective accountability system All this why we have been spending trillions of naira All this why we have been spending billions of naira. What is the result? Today Nigeria is the capital is the capital of the world Today Nigeria is the second or third most terrorized Nation in the world a country of over 200 million people six largest nation in the world I don't think we are doing things right. I just believe from my own position That our political class from 2009 sorry 1999 Still kids They have failed this country I say that with all sense of humility with all sense of accountability Because we cannot have leaders that are not patriotic We cannot have leaders that does not think about the well-being of the experience about the well-being of you and I And how they think is corruption. How they think is embezzlement All they think is to move our funds to develop all that nations. That is why we have arrived at this stage Few days ago, we see The a vessel that was bombarded that comes to our creek to, you know, divert our Natural resources. This you don't know. So for me, I think That we shouldn't borrow to put things right. Let us manage what we have If we know our military cannot resolve this bit of insecurity because this government promised us that by december 2022 The high threat of insecurity would be reduced so as low as reasonably acceptable That's the stance our policemen are being killed every day our soldiers are being killed every day And I'm not seeing results of our 2021 budget So, I mean so it brings us back to that 2021 because I was really going to ask that, you know It feels like the security situation has worsened Despite the fact that in seven years plus counting we have spent about eight trillion hour in terms of defense And that has not improved. So my question is why? There's a school of thought that believe that if we improve, you know spending on In terms of our budget on security and defense, it will translate into improvement Of security and lives and properties internally and externally And we see that apart from Nigeria, Africa as a continent. I mean, there's a lot of you know, uh Huge budgets budgeting however, but that hasn't really translated into Any tangible result. So my question is why? Okay, if you ask me why I will refer you to a budget That is the central strategic center of gravity But as an analyst, let me just hand answer your question because uh You know, we have we play with insecurity here in Nigeria We play a lot with insecurity like few years ago when we were expecting the two kind of checks You know, everybody were bouncing, you know, we're all happy that once these two kind of jet arrived I'll be able to check from yet. So some bizarre forest which have been Harassment by this criminal At the stand, I don't even know where those Supano jet have deployed, you know, so my position is this We need to understand something very clearly in this country. And that is why it's anything happened in this great nation I personally have said it on many fora. I will hold the major accountable. There is no divination That succeed without the capability efficiency and capability of his military The military are supposed to hold the territorial integrity of this great nation They need to take themself or take a departure from politicians They need to fight it before between themselves and politicians I don't see a reason why we have a country where we have an effective military and still yet Terrorists insurgents on Okada Are taking over territories are taking over our lands Where are our two kind of ready? Okada's are taking over our land Where are our military equipment? Where this one is Okada's are taking over our territory? So for me Budget allocation is not the problem. The problem here is accountability and deployment of those funds Now these funds we're talking about how much or how well are we taking care of our soldiers? Because in the part of it, you don't only have the weapons. That's what we call the shell acronym We have the software you use software in the pathway you use hardware in part away And you also use the The demand demand where you know the life where which happens to be the soldiers the officers How are we taking care of our mage? How are we taking care of our soldiers? Those are soldiers that have been trapped up to the part of it. What are they being paid monthly? What are the money allowance? We are not talking about Motivations even though the military try to tell us that they're motivated them I can tell you for free that our military are not doing a well in the area of motivations And that is the truth So we need to start looking at A lot of things because Kanta itself gently is not just a one-way traffic It's a multi-dimensional approach. We need to start looking at the political strategy We need to start looking at economic strategy. We need to start looking at employment Strategy, we need to also start looking at tactical strategy because one of the problems I have highlighted in this operation in our own from military perspective is the operational and tactical strategy Count 2023 the Nigerian military needs to carry out a cover analysis against this enemy and ensure That the operational and tactical strategy Is well addressed if you don't address your personal strategy You don't address your tactical strategy The enemy will hit you so hard that you will not believe So we must stop this friendly march. We are playing with these enemies and bring back the glory of Nigeria Okay, so, um, so do you think that in all of this, uh, some persons would say that You know the issue that we're faced with at the time security concerns are internal issues I mean with the fact that we have terrorists and kidnapping and banditry It's more like a cocktail a combination of what had happened and it feels like it's exploding right so That we should pay attention to the root causes. We should pay attention to internal issues If we pay attention to internal issues, it would take care of Some of the security challenges that we're faced with so my question to you now is do you think that We need to pay attention of, you know, some internal issues some of which you have addressed the issue of, you know, structural Conflict I mean structural issues that will, you know, let it take care of, you know, the mega issues at the end of a day Well, I think before you put the question to me, you know the question the answer You know the answer very well. It's a capital. Yes You know, the majority country at war has success against success I mean, we're suffering from internal world situation. We are not suffering from external aggression We are suffering from internal aggression. So like you rightly said, uh, the root cause analysis That is very important because that's what we'll classify that because that's the factors Because if you go to the hospital today, you know, this is the doctor start touching your stomach touching your ears Trying to know where you are reacting to pains or where you are feeling okay or well That's an assessment of your whole body system. It's just like military operations. You know, you need to carry out vulnerability and risk analysis of what is happening in Nigeria Uh, we want to talk about because every factors. Well, I would not tell you comment. They started the 2009 or 1999 Uh, we go into history or an effective study Uh, the history of the security started after the Nigerian civil war The Nigerian government at that time were so interested, you know, in bringing Nigeria to a state of peace in bringing Nigeria after one nation they forgot this this armament components of the pre uh post 1967 civil war and what they did was to start bringing back Nigeria They didn't carry out this armament program and that is where we have Small arms and ammunition going into the hands of the bad guys And that's where the likes of great celebrity and robots like Shola and co and Nini Cape to come into the Nigerian state now coming back to 1999 when the Uh, uh, one would go one would, uh, you know, hand it over the military leadership to democracy We are respected the government at that then, you know, to carry out a 20 30 years Security plan, you know, but we didn't do that. We know each government come with their own plan Once you don't understand it as a nation is that It's not about political system. It's not about political parties. The political party is a game of two phase You either win or you lose When you get into power It has to be the Nigerian party the Nigerian state and that's why we need to start having our leaders Having a you know 10 20 years security plan to ensure that we do not, you know Hand over insecurity to our children of born Now looking at the causative factors from the Terrorism point of view was the emergence of Boko Haram and the capture of she both gets in 2014 that gave Boko Haram, you know, uh, publicity globally You know in 2009 when this incident transpired, I'm trying to address Uh, the causative factors when this incident transpired in 2009 the Nigerian government were so shift to project the military Then I thought that the military would go there and clean and you know Eliminate these guys and bring the guys to the office. No When it comes to security, the military is the last resource That is to tell you that we should have protected the Nigerian police at the early stage who we know very well that the general police So only responsible for internal security But if it exceeds the capability of the general police that's why we bring in the military As it stands, we need to start building confidence in our Nigerian police We need to start building confidence on our internal security factors before we start bringing in the military because here in Nigeria For so long we have abused Our military In any given situation in reality, you project the military Somebody is fighting. I have a lot of markets. You project the military Somebody have a deck fall down from third mainland bridge. You project the military. That is an operational error But I'd like to find out from you. I mean just quickly as we you know, cost the conversation down with all of this allocation and and you know Budgets has been made over time. We know that we spend a lot in terms of you know, defense and security Does that not cater for the police? So how come the police is you know, seem to be lagging behind? Well, I wouldn't show that we'll have to you know, abandon the police system You know, the police is the bedrock of every Of every state police in why to give you why so I think the project is also Also covered in the Nigerian police I've not found time to read the project holistically because what's the need to sit down and start reading projects That you will not see the results in 20 at the end of 2023 God forbid I believe 2023 is coming election is coming The new leaders should start looking at the Nigerian state. They should start looking at unifying Nigeria. They should start looking at So I mean I mean, I'm just saying that are you saying that you know, the budgetary allocation over time For security and defense does not Cover or does not Encapsulate the police It does it does when we when we talk about defense Defense is not the army navy and air force defense is bringing together all the security components of the Nigerian state both process and non-purpose So that is what the defense covers. So It's possible for you to allocate funds to the defense and That the reason why you think talk is seen that of the Nigerian army navy and air force Is simply because they are the fourth three line of defense of the Nigerian state And that is why most times you see the project of this military, you know being shared on the internet So another issue is talking about the police. We need to that's a very good question We also start need to start looking at effective policing and also effective projecting To the policing system of Nigeria. So if we have that covered as well I think it's going to be of the head to the Nigerian state because There's a time when you go to any police station, you as a citizen, you are going to fund your kids So how do we take Nigeria away from this money? We have a lot to deal with We need to go now. Thank you so much Dixon Osaji for being part of the show. We appreciate your thoughts Well, uh, he's a global security expert analyst right there and he's he's talked about the fact that the issue with You know, uh, our security system is not about, you know, the budget and the continuous spending on Defense and security has not yielded any desired result. And so Accountability and implementation is what needs to be paid attention to and that's it this morning We take a break when we return. We'll be looking at the second conversation. Please stay with us