 That just at the dark and we're back unfiltered and uncensored talk from young alumni of historically black colleges and universities and advocates of the same glad to be with you again. We got Laurel by way of a and T candy corn connoisseur Winston Winston getting them in the school And Tiff yet to be thrown off the show. So we got a lot of stuff to get to today first I think it's appropriate Because by the time you hear this episode we will have experienced the memorial and celebration of HBCU alumnus distinguished HBCU executive and Distinguished lawmaker at the federal level Representative Elijah Cummings again by this this airing even though we're taping it preliminarily by the time you will have heard this His his service will have passed Earlier this week services were held at Morgan Where he served as a owner or Morgan's Board of Regents for more than 19 years Really helped Morgan and many HBCUs Collect millions and millions of dollars for programming Transportation stands out as one of his issues that he really championed a lot of Interface with corporations. He helped to bridge bridge the gap between the schools and the sector and those businesses. So You know you always think in a political process, you know What do congressmen and senators do or congresspersons and senators and senators do they do a lot considering that they control the purse strings and they do a lot for their respective states and jurisdictions and districts, so You know, we will give you guys the floor To talk about some of the the fond memories you would have of Elijah particularly because two of us Have ties to Howard I think it's even that much more appropriate as he was a graduate of Howard. So Even though we have a lot of Howard bias on this show by way of tiff I will let you start because that's your fellow bison a year wild but um No, I just so I woke up that morning And I thought it was a joke. I'm not even gonna hold you. I'm like, why are killing people today? What is going on and then like I fully wake up and I see the timeline like this is actually not a joke Not a drill and I'm just like I actually can't do this today because like you don't like at At this point of where we are in America and where we are in our policy making and how it really is People's whole lives on the line and livelihoods on the line and ways of being on the line We don't need somebody like Elijah Cummings to have died And that sounds like really I think that sounds terrible like when I when I verbalize it Because you don't want to have to depend on somebody or just see them for their their usefulness to your life But when they're like a lawmaker or a policymaker Like that's how you know them to be and that's how like you how how they Uh Shape what it is that you're going to live like or live through um So in that way that's mostly how You know, I view Elijah Cummings. Um I've met him once Just in passing because I just happened to be in the right place at the right time um And I had class with one of his daughters, but that is the extent of of everything but I was like Shocked even though like I know like These people are you know up in age, but you still don't expect them to you know die Even though everybody dies, but you you still don't expect them to die Especially now, you know, we have so much work to be doing like a you can't die yet That's one of the things when you're larger than life. Um, yeah, even if you're sick and he was sick for a number of years Uh And in in the latter years it it was becoming visibly. So, you know when you see this guy, um, you know with a walker Um, and the guy that's known for screaming on people in Senate. I mean in in house chambers Um, and he was still screaming on people In terms of the impeachment he was like he was still going in on people but A larger than life figure. Um when you see them, you know, start to physically diminish it still Is something that um kind of knocks you off balance I mean the only times I can remember having that experience, you know, I agree with you Tipton like it's shocking, right? Um, especially for people here in Baltimore. Um, because even though this isn't my city The city has adopted me. Um, and so I feel you know, how a lot of Baltimoreians feel and have adopted a lot of their sensibilities and this, you know This town kind of got quiet about that everywhere, um Even though we all knew he was sick, I mean, it's almost akin to like when Muhammad Ali died It's like you could see he was he was sick. You could see he was he was He's not the same and then when he's gone. It's like what is that for real? um You're just larger than life. So you can't imagine life without that kind of cat in there laurel. Um You know, you have ties to to to h.u. Um tie deep ties to to a and t. Uh, Elijah was somebody who fought for Uh, you know better resources and better opportunities for hbc's at large. What were your impressions of his life and Now reflections and you know in the midst of his death I mean for me like especially not being a student of Howard But more so a still on paper resident of maryland. Um, especially with the comments Of recent which kind of makes it even more sick like with the whole back and forth with trump and the rat infested baltimore nonsense Um, it's kind of like it, you know, of course trump is insult is like who hasn't he insulted but it's also just more insulting that He would say those things about someone who's actually like one has the receipts in terms of You know his education and the work he's done But also that even despite, you know, him hiding how his health was failing and things like that He was still doing the work every day And made it a point to say that, you know, we can't let, you know, all of this nonsense lie and we have to be active members of society Um, and then at least that I think it also highlights especially Even when someone dies, I think sometimes the silver lining is that for the people who weren't aware of everything They did while they were alive They actually might be more interested to find out. Okay. Wow. They actually had A lot of reach and all of these things granted. I wish I knew that You know when they were here, but you know, at least I can see that they have they've left the legacy behind And it's on the rest of us to kind of carry the torch and also that he was that basically the same age as my father So that kind of made it more personal that, you know, this is not someone who was like 93 years old, correct But I I personally don't think someone in their 60s is that's not old to me Right. So, you know, it's it speaks to a lot of things. Um, I hope that I think in all of this trump stuff. I I hope that people can use this as A catalyst for being more involved at whatever level in politics and even just as you know, a voter And paying attention to not just who's running for executive office But like who's in your local state legislature and what are they doing? Especially the people that look like us Those of those who have gone to hbc us and even those who haven't but like what are they actually doing? What are the policies they're standing behind? What are the issues that they consistently vote for or vote against? And not just getting on, you know getting online and complaining but like, you know being active because I know lately for my My father and my aunts and uncles because of this they've gotten more active in like their districts And even at the county level and like, you know Putting the fire to people who've been in office for the past 12 15 years But saying like, okay, we're trying to meet with you. You keep canceling on us. You're not doing it This is not gonna work people getting fed up and when you realize you don't have as many fighters on the field as you once had It's that much more imperative. Winston. Um, still with ties in detroit Um, what is it like for, you know, obviously he was a national figure. I think the three of us have, you know, kind of a local Painted opinion of Elijah, but what was it like from a different city in a political a little a really politically savvy city like Detroit for to to see Somebody like that passed away So I think for us, you know, because we do talk so much I'm working for a mentorship program in the city of detroit, you know So much of what we try to instill in our young people is being aware Being civically aware being aware in general, um of the surroundings with goals all in the world And having to figure like Like Elijah Cummings who represented so many positive things Uh as a black male as an hbcu alum You know and and someone who really, you know embodied the idea of speaking truth to power And we talk a lot to our young people of color about what that means and the importance of Being engaged and doing things like that. I think he was a prime example Of of what that is and and doing that and doing it intellectually, you know Doing it as only and as someone says only an hbcu graduate would have the ability to Articulate and express those things that mattered and being able to speak those things And in the rooms and spaces that it needed to be brought up I think it leaves a gaping hole, you know, Laurel Speaking of her family being more engaged now since his loss I think it just it's a reminder of us to several people have recently said her Herabela Fonte and other folks talking about who's going to take the torch who's going to Continue this conversation in these spaces Um in the ways that it's required for us to progress Um, you know the ways to be expected. I mean, I think his you know, Elijah's presence wrong Not just locally even though locally he was a champion for you know, Maryland and those things But his ability to like I said to speak to things that mattered that affected a lot of people not just at a local level But at a national level And I think it's it's important to understand the ability that we have and and the um The what's important of the value in in doing those things the obligation And that we have to make sure that we are aware and speaking the things that matter And that we have people in those spaces in those rooms who are comfortable who understand the value and the necessity Um to speak those things so he represented all the the best of those qualities And he's the kind of example as a mentor that I would definitely That you lean to um for young people to understand what it means and what it looks like, you know For trying to paint the picture, you know, Eliza Cummings was was that picture Yeah, man I mean and and the good thing about this is you know Normally when you hear of a death of a really distinguished figure like this particularly in sports You always think like man, are we going to see somebody else like that? I think for Elijah and in politics we are going to see somebody else like that One because we and and from an hbcu and I think that's an exciting part about this not his death But I think that you can easily see somebody like a Randall Woodfin Who's a mayor in you know, is it birmingham? um Yeah, birmingham, um A lot of the new elected officials who are coming to congress Um part of the new wave, um at least from the democratic side of the aisle Um legislators of color who are coming to you know, Capitol Hill to make changes and they're not being silent about it And this in in a lot of ways, Elijah People know him from Capitol Hill work, but he had a first act in Maryland state legislature And he was our first african-american, you know speaker of the house. So that For him to have two acts to be known better for one of them and on such a big stage is that It's good to know that there are other people who got to see him And can mold kind of their outlook on politics and working for people and with people from his example that at least Up until his last days. He was still somebody who was visible He was still somebody who was active again when I think of him. I think of him yelling on people I always thought that that was funny. Um that he yelled on people in the chambers like a true baltimorean like Like so it was that was all and he brought that he brought that to politics And as you said Winston, it wasn't it wasn't like he was out of order or you know, incoherent with it He was he was sharp He was he knew his stuff and he knew how to relate to people And people back down when if he started yelling and leaning forward over that microphone Everybody better chill out and just listen for a minute because obviously he's getting fed up with something um And usually he was getting fed up with something that was was not being done right for the people um And I think that that's hard to do It's hard to to get black people who we're born with a certain cynicism about structure and and systems And politics because they've for so long have worked against us To see somebody use that to our advantage Was it was a big deal and uh, maryland and baltimore Uh black america certainly oh elijah a lot. Um, and so certainly throughout this week Respects will have been paid and today Um and going forward when you look at the lives of the people Um who will come after him So, uh, we will take that and transition out of this segment into the next one I believe we are going to be talking about a pretty historic Historic gift for allan university in south carolina Um, and then have a conversation about philanthropy across the hbc lambs landscape This is not just at the dark. We'll be right back That is at the dark and we're back. Uh, just wrapped up a conversation Reflections on representative elijah Cummings. Uh, now we're going to get into a dialogue about a historic gift To allan university in south carolina $500,000 from a family foundation Yep, and that is a that's a big deal for that school. It's one of the uh, the smaller hbc us but growing Really in its imprint in that part of the state acquiring a lot of property If you listen to the hbc digest radio series We recently had president urnis mcnealy on who talked about building a football team building an athletic program building up the academics Um, and it's just something that something in the water down at allen. Um, that now a family foundation Has taken notice and given a pretty sizable historic gift to that school. So I would ask you guys that in The shadows of all the black twitter discussion about how Howard morehouse and spell me get all the money What was the reaction to see allen Maybe it wasn't a 34 million dollar gift or a 13 million dollar gift like we're not gonna compare like that Like robert smith and oprah gave to morehouse, but that's still that 500k is a lot of money Exactly and anybody would be glad to have it. Um, and particularly for allen Um, which is not if somebody said a quick name 15 hbc us allen would be on nobody's list It would be on my list Shut up He was a howard howard howard howard howard howard fisk, uh, uh the am school's howard No No, but I will say And like I said too earlier and privately Nobody talked about this. I shared it Which is my fault and I was I'm sorry, which is my fault too because I didn't talk about it Well, yeah, but you you're sorry about it Little happy that i'm embarrassed As you should be but like for everybody to complain about the trifecta plus always quote always getting money And always in the news Ain't nan one of these hbcu for the pride instagram in twitters Post about allen university receiving five hundred thousand dollars. They may not have known It wasn't it wasn't publicized Because the not the not knowing argument is that don't fly. It's a red herring because People know they just don't care. Did they know so I tell you jerry fax don't matter No, no, you may have a point there. They may have you may have a point there because I would say this it's not like allen Has relationships with the root or the washington post so when stuff like that breaks It's not like they're getting to the largest outlets. They get to the black outlets because I did get it We're not the like even But but check it These hbcu for the pride instagram pages social media platform pages are not mainstream either You may all they have to do is concentrate on the 100 sometimes up to 107 Is Me that you are not in your little team or whoever you got you're not even paying attention to Who y'all say don't get money? Especially Stop talking to me Stop tweeting stop posting because you're not in it now be to even represent them Yeah, to be to be fair to me. I did ask when I saw that story. I immediately responded and asked them A question which was is this the largest gift in school history? Because I I would have taken personal pride in being able to report. Hey, this is the biggest gift the school has ever received I haven't heard back from them yet. I expect that I will Especially after this one of the one of the things that I read I think from the christian record They said it's one of the biggest so it's not the biggest That's what they said in the press release one of it So I wanted to make sure because a lot of they may have said that just to cya Not knowing if it was but they didn't have the information readily available They was just so excited. They just had to get the news out. They didn't have And that's fun off edges. So but cut off edges So when you but when you say that Isn't it almost like a To well first let me say this to law's point There is a point about large gifts going unnoticed because I've seen Over the last three years at a minimum That a lot of alumni Scholarship galas had a lot of hbc us have been breaking records So I know off the top of my head Uh, Texas southern has broken a record philander smith raised a million dollars this year in one night Shaw raised like 940 thousand dollars in a night Um alabama a and m broke a record. I was at that gala um So these schools are are getting sizable donations and they're they're having record breaking events for scholarship donations And they aren't making the washington post the root Um, you know usa today all these places the ajc all these places that we're so happy about you know oprah and And robert smith I would ask you guys do you think that that is because just the just the numbers That one million dollars is not comparable to 13 million dollars Or is it just that these are celebrity donors? I think you I think you have to take into account I I think it should I think it should matter based on the amount given to the school and where the school is and what it Will do and what it means for the school But if you're not dedicated to reporting with that type of nuance and context, then you're not going to do it You're not and i'm going to expect that you do it because it's not what you hear about You don't report about this stuff on a daily Other things to talk about Now to me it's always a big deal if you're going over to me if you're if you're going over a hundred grand That's a big deal to me, but that's just our standard of philanthropic impact um Would you say I mean Laura you you've been you've been a part of two campuses that do pretty well in terms of Name recognition Is it the number or is it the celebrity factor because I think that that makes a difference in in school's Strategy in trying to attract these kind of gifts. They may Say well, you know the number is good But maybe we need to focus more on celebrity or high profile donors so that we can get the marketing exposure as well Well, I mean I think it's a I think it's a combination of things I think some things are just because it's someone's famous say Beyonce And then also which school they're giving to who was already You know somewhat of a household name like Howard um, but other times I think sometimes the plan is just a line and For whatever reason this little news blurb Just blows the hell up or like for someone like Robert F. Smith who is not a celebrity His gift or the way he gave was different And then it's also at Morehouse Or like the Oprah situation at Morehouse is because it's Oprah And then people who are paying attention even further Oprah is also hbcu alum, but we're not going to talk about that right now but I think it's just different things or like the case with a and t a few years ago Where it was mostly us that were quote unquote upset over the clock tower that they built in the middle of campus And it cost a million dollars And so people just heard a million dollars and got upset and said why are you you know Why are you going to spend all this money to build this damn clock tower? We need computer labs, which was true. Um, we need all this other stuff Not realizing that the gift was from an alumnus And he and that's what I won't say will because he's not dead But that's what he wanted. That's what he wanted to give to the school right and he was not famous He was just an alum And so in the alley, he's not giving anything else. Yeah, and he's like you'll hurt you'll hurt that relationship because you think That's not what should be given and it's like you don't get to tell somebody What to give it how they get it? It's like beggars can't be choosers not to call us beggars But it's kind of like if you're telling alumni Like hey, don't forget to you know, think of us when you're making your will or you know Leaving your deed or your trust to the school blaze blaze blah And people are kind of like, you know for other reasons that I think are more complicated within the black community Sometimes that's not always possible Um other times people do give but like I said like we said, you know No one really cares because facts don't matter or even in the case of allen university These people that left the money were not alum They want the bwis They're not even given in their in their education range But a lot of times you will see with these donors They will even if they have no direct connection My mom went to such and such my dad went to such and such or my aunt or my My favorite teacher went here. So I want to endow a scholarship. You know, it's There's all there's a lot of connections that I think that black folks and particularly affluent black folks will find Because they want to they want to give to an hbcu. So they will search for an opportunity To say here's the one i'm given to and here's the reason why Here's the big question that we got to deal with and I think it relates to the haves and have nots and wins And I'll throw this one at you. So The conversation on black twitter has stopped giving so much money to these elite hbcu's right But is there an argument to be made about schools That can or at least showcase the capacity to do more with it and have a track record of doing more with it Versus smaller institutions Where the gift would be transformative But it still wouldn't put them on the the level of a morhouse or howard or an ant or you know a morgan I mean Is there is there it's investment. It's basic investment. You go with a winner like so what's wrong with that? Yeah, I know I think I think there's value in and we I think it's been said before I think or is another folks have commented on social media about You know there's value in like making that investment and the student You know howards track record spellman's track record morhouse track record of the alumni and students that have come out of there And what they're doing. I also think there's room for a A narrative change for you know, maybe an institution that does not Have the same level of track record But who is accepting students who may not otherwise have a chance and what they what they're able to do with Students who maybe don't have ideal profiles and what we know of how they come out of a philander smith Or a benedict or heiress or etc And they've done they've done going on to do amazing things because of school invested in them I think there's room for those hbc's maybe to have more conversations about Hey, you might want to invest in this in us for these reasons. Um, I don't mean I'm not I'm speaking, you know openly or Or you know, like maybe not as much knowledge as far as what they are doing in that space But I do think there's room to have more from I'm from just a local conversation and in basic level I think folks don't think about it in that way And I think there's a lot of value in making investments in those institutions who invest in students Who may not have as many other options or chances And some of the amazing things and stories and outcomes have been able to come on that But I do think yes, it's very real that you know, folks hear the buzz where they hear Oh, you went to Howard or you went to you know, kind of ante and you're doing these amazing things While I definitely want to put an investment into those institutions because I know I've seen the product of those Those institutions are what they've been able to do I was just going to say I think it's just a underlying fear of scarcity And maybe feeling like okay Remember when I said before where I was like black people don't want to collaborate And so I feel like there's a sense that okay if these Three or whatever school institutions are quote unquote always getting gifts and always getting money And always getting these large donations and nobody else is which isn't true Um It makes it it makes it seem as if all the money's just going to them And then there's no money left for the rest of us and that's not true And then also I think people need to understand too that Just because a school is getting certain funds, you don't know what's what their books look like Right, you don't and you don't know what like what the Oprah give that was that was money the 30 year later gift From money. She donated 30 years ago for a scholarship fund It's not just random random bags of money getting dropped off And bam a new student union like I think people forget that even if you only want to give your school $25 you can designate where that $25 goes Or if you're leaving a trust you can designate in the trust. Okay. I'm gonna leave you guys $750,000 and I want you to use this money to build xyz when I was at high point They did the same thing. There was a dorm on campus some random person who wanted to be anonymous They left a million dollars and they said you can have this money as long as you build a dorm and name it blessing And that's what they did So I think, you know, I'm not saying we all just have to have a million dollars floating around and Building random dorms on our campuses, but I feel like whatever you're giving I think that we get caught up in that it has to be this high amount And then also magically assuming that just because someone gave a high amount That this is going to be distributed on the campus in a certain way Or it's going to go to just this one program and nowhere else or even if it does that doesn't mean that Well, everybody else is gonna slack off. I think also to laura's point about collaboration People feel some type of way about The trifecta plus getting quote getting all of this money But fail to realize you need the trifecta plus To get further like you have the same opportunity after you've Earned your your bachelor's degree at your hbc that doesn't necessarily fall into quote trifecta plus You have the ability you will be prepared to pursue grad school at a howard at ANC at wherever else insert maybe more house College of medicine or school of medicine you will be prepared you need for them to get the money that they need when we come back a conversation on I can't make up my mind if we should talk about trump or we should talk about the other thing when we come back Wait, what's up? It was trumping one other thing. Oh the hbcu ish the hbcu ish t-shirt. Yeah, we'll do that next. I just have to dark I just have to dark and we're back coming at um A sensitive topic that was on what was that instagram or facebook? It's sensitive. I think it's people are insensitive in my house It's sensitive for my it's sensitive for my well-being. Um, the hbcu ish t-shirt That surfaced what maybe a couple weeks ago. Um, and I think that it surfaced Originally at temple university in philadelphia, which has a sizable black population to be fair My wife, uh, who frequently sits in on the recording with me. Um, also known as the silent partner on the petty ass podcast Um is a temple grad Uh, and even she and her remarks said, you know what that's a that's a little bit that's a little bit That's a little bit too much temples not an hbcu I don't think that the culture or the nomenclature should be leveraged that way Um, what were what was the reaction you guys had when you saw it and you saw all the discussion about it? There's directly into the camera I Was just like to say that I think if we were like drawing a relationship uh low web cousins would be The pwi blacks who um Think their pwi or traditionally white institutions. Institution can be hbcu ish And the black hbcu students who like to tell Other hbcu students that y'all don't need no more money Like I think all of that is rooted in insecurity To some extent like you made your decision There are pros and cons to every decision that we will make in this life You chose to attend a pwi. You chose to attend the hbcu that you attend Pros and cons to it, but we talked about this before so there are two things An hbcu is unique in this way It represents two things it represents a operational or a functional Part of life, which is a school that trains people for professions, right? That's that's one thing that an hbcu is and then there's this notion that an hbcu is a culture a lifestyle um a lifestyle or a culture of camaraderie among black folks among educated black folks among Folks who enjoy the the stick toitiveness and stick togetherness that a school provides So when you think about the the form and culture of it I don't get that black students at pwi's are saying a we we think that our school Or we think that our bsu or we think that our black homecoming or our black graduation Is like an hbcu. I don't think that they're talking about the form of it And I don't mind if they're saying if if the if black students and black people Use the term the the simple four letters hbcu to represent Black academic culture. Do you get what I'm saying? Like I get why it's offensive. I get why it's offensive I feel it in my spirit as an hbcu graduate But I maybe i'm just sick and twisted like that, but I like that black people can Look at our schools and look at our culture and say The culture of black people enjoying each other in an academic environment is hbcu Except it's not when you're on the campus of a traditionally white But do you understand it's almost like saying if if you know when they say is lit like an hbcu homecoming Yeah, it may not be but what if you were at a black cookout and they said that would you be as offended? I mean, I think I think the real tension here is the fact that it's not really just this singular issue is the fact that That's usually if someone is talking about hbcu that has not been to one does not go to one Their first point of reference is always the surface The party in the book quote fun things like the most fun thing and the cultural aspect, but not but then the first sign of Insert something happening at a howard this month Then they're the first ones to you know down it and talk about oh, y'all don't have this and y'all ain't got that y'all broke down blah blah But what else could what else could they use though in a setting in other words? It's not like you see people at a convocation say. Oh, yeah, it's lit like an hbcu convocation Or you know me it's not it's not right There's nothing else that people could look at From instagram or facebook or some outward facing Function and say this is hbcu culture like our classrooms. It's not like yeah, we lit in this lecture But you know me like Where you go because No, yeah, they can get that way Right The howard they were nice to in my classes at howard in my major and in my minor were lit That is what it is, but that's because I had the classes weren't lit They were engaging y'all were not hide up y'all were not stomping around in class y'all were engaged in the class That's more than one definition. Thank you very much. Dr. Clark class You can't tell me otherwise, but I was That um When we talk about In terms of In recruiting our own students if we consistently I don't even want to say let but encourage this whole hbcu-ish attitude In in terms of pwi or pwi That's going to make it harder for us to recruit. No, I do agree with that Yes, it was. I mean it worked. I know I said I do agree. I do agree with that I'm saying that I think it happens to at traditionally white institutions Mentioning high point again I had a case where I was like in the middle of my freshman year My only year there and you know how someone always has they girl friends nieces best friend That is going to college and looking at colleges. Can you can they shadow you blah blah blah? And so she came down during one of high point open houses And so high point which is like pleasantville in higher ed form For open house because that's how they got me there They throw out all the stops so like as soon as you get there you riding around campus in a golf cart And they got the promenade with all the international flags and then when they have the food they got the salmon They got the shrimp. They got the roast beef Then they have the pep rally and you're getting all this free stuff and I and I told her straight up I was like, yeah, like don't get caught up in all of this. It's an illusion. It's not like this every day Like I'm starving out here for real I'm broke Like this school is expensive and I got and of course the response I got was you know, okay, whatever So she went on an applied got in a high point and went by then I had already transferred to a and t Then I ran into her later when I came back to visit and then she comes to me She was like, yeah, I remember what you told me. You were right. I'm trying to go to chapel hill I'm trying to go to chapel hill Yeah But yeah, it's the same thing so especially in terms of doing recruitment and working with admissions And granted all schools do this all schools are trying to sell you Yeah, so that you enroll into their school because they need their money now to be to be fair hbc You's do it too. They they showcase the best of the best the week of you know, everybody does everybody does But I just feel like there's a we're not We're not necessarily covering up a culture Right, right or a campus that isn't dedicated to our black being and in doing an education At a twi that ain't the case Well, Winston, how do you deal with that? So when you're working with students and they're choosing particularly your high achieving students Well, they know what college is all about They probably came from a household that has someone who graduated from college Or even if they didn't even if their first generation and they just had exposure to a lot of people who can tell them about college how do you deal with A michigan state for example, which knows how to throw a program that looks attractive to black people And then you're you're balancing they get there they get their hbcu and they become hbcu adjacent To speak and then you and then you and then you you start to you're comparing them with actual hbc How do you distill here's the difference between the two to an a 17 or an 18 year old? Please So you're so mad I mean state is having their own issue right now. There really is no like There's there's I don't even know if you've seen it before you're going to rant about michigan I don't need no michigan bias How do you how do you do it? Winston? No, I think the biggest thing is just education So, you know for the students that we get in our program, they come from all different walks of life And I think the first step is always gauging You know making sure we're not downplaying or or saying anything is less than So especially any kind of conversations about an institution that may have more representation of blacks and some other Pardone women institutions what we want to be clear on first place is that there's a difference between Being a little bit more accepting of some of some different cultures and being rooted in School that was built for you by you with your with you in mind with the intent to you That is you know that you're going to get a full educational So you're going to it's going to be an inclusive in full education not just on African-Americans but on people of color in general and understanding the proper element of of contributions to those The books that you read the professors you have all those elements that are different than Just going to school anywhere. So we got to have a conversation up front about Understanding the value in those unique spaces and what they are and what they look like so you don't get in the mind sort of saying Oh temple or you know Talzin or whatever school is like this school. No, it's not They may have a larger population of minority students and some then a lot of institutions that are like them But be clear on they're not they're not these schools because they were not made Like this these institutions were made Specifically with you in mind and understanding what that looks like and making sure we're not saying it's less than no It's just different This is the difference between this institution and that institution I want you to understand that you can get a certain type of education at these institutions That's just as valuable if not more Debateably in some spaces to have this full well rounded Education let's make sure you understand that it is that and this is what it looks like and that you don't You know buy into any fallacies about that you're right I I agree with Tiffany's point wholeheartedly and I never thought about it that way until she said it Which is to say that if you if you have a pwi or any other school A community college for that matter Doing something that that for at least for black students resembles an hbcu That could be a tough sell because they can feel like oh, I don't I can I can have somewhat of an hbcu experience without I guess what they've been taught to believe is the bother or the burden of an hbcu And that's what they were saying In on facebook and in the in the group this one woman wanted to engage me. She's like, I had a very affirming experience at my two pwis and I was like girl you think that was affirmation try actually Developing your black identity at an hbc maybe but it's it's not to say there are a lot of black folks who have had Culturally enriched experience at pwis. That's only if that's only if you were good when you got there If you were broken and going to to a twi That's that's a 50-50 chance You might you might not why would you put all of that responsibility or that responsibility in general On the traditionally white institution. They don't care about your black ass. Like why would you do that? and It depends it depends You know, I mean my I can't use my father's He's an anomaly but for my mother, you know, she didn't she grew up in dc She didn't apply to howard because she couldn't afford it She lived in the projects and the only school that she got into that offered her a full ride Was skidmore college in upstate new york and it's it's one of those schools where it's not an iv league but A lot of rich white people go there And so she was like, you know, would that have been my first choice? Hell, no, but they were paying they showed me the money right And so I left and so when she got there That was one of the first two years that the school first became co-ed It used to be all female and then also the other black students that were there mostly front were from new york city It came in through like magnet programs and things like that And so she told me that like, you know, all we had was each other and we had we had the bsu Which was rated my third year there and it was ransacked and they never fixed it by the time she graduated But you know, it was kind of at least for her it was kind of just like I was there to go to school get my degree Do what I got to do and then get out and this isn't 70s So I feel like now especially now that we're in this like trump maga climate And all of these things and that htc enrollments are rising But of course, it's those students going to twis I just think that's kind of muddling it up a little more where it's like, okay If i'm in this white space for whatever reason whether they had my program They gave me money whatever the reason is And it's kind of like, okay, and this is the school's demographics And i'm like one of 40 black people on this campus I gotta make it work. And so it's not to say that that person still can't Find their black identity or whatever you want to call it. I think it's different Then from someone who's at an hbcu. They're affirmed Everybody looks like you they may be different and be from different places different identities and things like that But they're still black um, so I don't necessarily think that they I think it's just a matter of like someone's personal Personal feelings. I feel like some of these people are not keeping it 100 And I you know putting putting you're crying behind a smiling mask saying oh, I had a great experience And it's kind of like he does for just too much like if you had a great experience great No one's taking that away from you. I can't take that away from you. I can't erase that you had a great time at ohio state But it's like you don't have to I feel like if you had a good experience You don't have to affirm your experience by downing somebody else's So y'all are not here for the hb for hbcu wish So if I wear that shirt to the christmas party y'all be mad Even though, you know, I went to an hbcu Ain't no christmas party It won't be so I can hand out candy corners a gift bag. Um, so when we come back When we come back our last segment we're gonna talk uh Donald trump coming to an hbcu. That is at the dark. We'll be right back That is at the dark. We're rounding out our conversation. Um, uh, just a special plug Tiffany is going to be live streaming Thanksgiving From frankfurt, kentucky this year. So be sure to tune in on her facebook page for a brockington thanksgiving Let's get into a conversation About the big story, uh, that is to come this weekend Which is president donald trump who's going to be making keynote remarks at a criminal justice reform uh, I guess you could call it conference That's being hosted at benedict college Is this his In columbia, south columbia So it's not it's not his conference. It's a third party and he's not the only political person that'll be there A lot of the other uh democratic candidates will also be making remarks And I mean a lot of them joe biden kamala harris Uh, courry booker p buddha jiz elizabeth warren bernie sanders. So it runs the gamut of a full political presentation in a key caucus state early caucus state Um But you know By the time we hear it all we hear is donald trump coming to an hbcu Right, right, right. Um, so I got a lot of heat today as i'm prone to do Um, because my sense was you know If you want hbcu's to be relevant and we're saying that hbc's are like every other school And then you have to deal with what every other school does which is invite political candidates and political figures to campus And they catch the same heat that we do um, you know, if you're in mississippi and a democrat comes The republicans or the conservatives on that campus don't like it Um, but they still invite them. Um, you know, if you are at a liberal campus and you invite a conservative speaker The liberals don't like it. Um, we see that in california all the time, but they still invite them One because that's what college is two because that's the political process Of political candidates and figures trying to cultivate support and votes um Do you imagine so that's my take you can't complain about this you can hate him But you can do two things at one time you can hate trump and accept the fact that he can speak on your campus We're fully capable of having two thoughts And two frames from which to operate that's not that's not some black folks are incapable of doing um But do you think that this is an exception one because it's donald trump and he's so reviled For being a racist For being unfit for office uh That this isn't it that this is an exception That he comes to an hbcu to make remarks of any kind particularly on criminal justice, which his administration has spearheaded And which most black folks have supported in a bipartisan fashion um Is it just beyond the pale for this parent? Is it is it that he was invited by virtue of his office because that's the case Then i'm it was by virtue of his office. It's not like they said we we specifically want donald trump to come talk about this Right the the the invite was we want the president of the united states And we want candidates for the president of the united states to come talk about criminal justice reform And that's the that reminds me of what wane Wayne excuse me what president frederick had to make clear To how our university when betsy boss came through She said yeah or by virtue of her office if he has to do something or he's invited to do something By virtue of his office, then that's just what it is You just either you gonna show up and do what's within your right as an american citizen, which is You're right to protest Right freedom of speech If you gonna do what you got to do then do what you got to do if not You just you just don't but you really can't You shouldn't waste time complaining about something that somebody has to do because of the office that they occupy It surprises me. I don't expect for him to say anything profound. No, um, and if and if he's taking questions I expect for him to say something crazy. Um, right, but i'm gonna have sound bites for days So one of the things that surprised me laura is that Almost like trump supporters where everything you say They just say well, it's not true. I don't believe it. He's great. He's working hard x yz no matter what he does or what gets said they still support him Because one of the things that that came out at least in the in the editorial I did today was like, you know Some good things have happened for hbc's over the last three years under the trump administration Right and even when you say when you show people the statistics They say, okay. Thanks for that information. I don't care Which which is there which is they're right? Which is they're right? You can separate again. You can separate the stats from the person. Absolutely but Why why do you think it is that it doesn't move the meter on accepting like okay a guy that you hate is the president But therefore the president should be allowed time on your campus I mean, I don't know. I think people and not just because it's trump, but I think with anyone That we don't disagree with we just get caught up in the fact that oh, I hate them. I can't stand them You know, there's no a broken clock is right twice a day with me They just they out and that's not realistic and honestly this kind of same thing on a much lower scale happened at a white school a few years ago with some like He was like a rush limba type And the the alumni association actually invited him to campus And then other students on the campus and I know I think like we are like a liberal organization petition against it and like You know made such a big stink that the president had to step in and like cancel the event because it was just getting too tenuous But then he sent a letter to the campus saying basically saying that like, you know Like one the school was not behind this. This was the alumni The alumni group invited him to campus and then two because this is a college campus, you know, we're not You know, we're not in a we're hiring a silo, but we're not a silo and you have to invite You know, how do you learn and grow if you're always in an echo chamber? Always around people that think exactly like you and agree with you on everything And he also said that honestly, this would have been a great chance for you guys as students To like really put him to task and question him on the things he said And so I think people just get they they're not they're not thinking the long game They're just thinking of the immediacy of like, I don't want him here. I can't stand him blah, blah, blah So regardless of trump and whatever nonsense he does today or tomorrow is kind of like for right now he's still an executive office and It's the ball is kind of in our court as hbcu. So I feel like as students Even just other members of the campus. They should use that opportunity now I'm not saying that this may turn out with any more uh jewels Of benefit to us, but at the same time I think it's a great opportunity for them as a campus to one rally together But to show up and really put him to task now granted. I feel like his side Because they they're ridiculous. They'll they'll still spin it as oh, he was attacked on their campus and everybody was acting like animals Like that's gonna happen, but I just feel like regardless, you know The facts do matter in this case So I feel like as long as they at least band together at the community and still, you know, show up But show out respectfully but also make it clear that like, okay We don't necessarily agree with you. This is why we have questions So, yeah, hopefully that happens somebody Or go ahead. What is it? No, no, I'm good. I was going to ask the question somebody called me this morning and said What do you think the difference is between trump and lewis verica? In terms of the way that the public Either has or would receive them coming to campus because if you recall Minister ferrican went on tour a couple years ago of some hbc use and everywhere he went Almost the the schools had to almost apologize saying We invite diverse speakers to campus. We don't agree with everything he says And the truth of the matter is ferrican's about 20 30 years from his heyday in the 80s and 90s when he was really going off You know, I think a lot of students today See the minister and they they have this one in person. There's one impression Go look up lewis ferrican on field donahue And see what see what the minister was about in the mid 80s white devil Right. Right. So what I'm saying is Is there a difference when you think about Controversial politically charged figures on our side That black folks had to apologize for And in controversial politically charged figures on the other side Which black folks had to apologize for it's like is there any is there any space where hbc use can do what what any other college or university would do I think the difference is between black people who are Politically charged spicy. However, you want to put it in white people is White people have bite behind what it is they saying they do that's how institutional in in systemic racism works Again, go look up field donahue lewis ferrican Ferrican can say whatever he wants to say and people who have Black people who have polarizing opinions can say and do whatever they want to say They still don't have the bite to make that to make that work or to affect White people or other black people or non non white people or people in america the way that white people in white systems do I think that we're evolving after all Howard had Kanye West and bestie divorce on campus during homecoming y'all said not a nary word That is not true And and I would like to say for the record Kanye was at war before his first and y'all they say not nary a goddamn thing Lord, did you did you go to sunday service later went to george washington university? So and they got money The question is only care when it's how or the trifecta plus He was at war before his first and our girl did that Laurel, did you go to sunday service? I absolutely didn't Laurel didn't know about it And got on twitter and was like, oh, okay and rolled over Again At all I quit Howard years ago this new Kanye Kanye said I stand on the Howard University of how on the yard of Howard University. Do I look canceled? Yes, you are the the Kanye that was booed a decade ago. That's our Kanye. He was canceled And he's back new Kanye who's just out here in this world doing whatever possibly unmedicated and unmanaged Not we all doing all the most of the people in that crowd were his team The students the students said nothing No, you are not gonna do that. That's not no, it's true because you can't be the school of let's run up into a building on thursday And as you said unmedicated unmanaged oval office meltdown Kanye west was on campus How many people just roll up to my campus and and pull out a table and do something Please you right? I don't understand No, people literally will roll up to Howard And just set up shop and do whatever they're doing and say that they did it at Howard I've seen it. Did anybody stop sunday service because y'all stopped the a building for days You know what? Did anybody Darren likes to hear what you say and then rewrite it in his own mind I'm asking the question that is true because I'm tired of seeing it. I promise you I am and we might talk about that on the future On a future episode. That's coming. Is that this weekend? If we do we got to talk about Are you going are you going to geo for me? I sure am. You didn't go to sunday service. We're going to geo. Nice to know um Thanks for listening to dodgers after dark. Remember to tune in for a brockington Thanksgiving next month Live on face live on facebook watch also. Thank you for tuning in to dodgers at the dark on series 142 hbc You the pride of Howard universities radio network again tiffy. Are we doing this next week? Sure, why not we're going to preview a brockington Thanksgiving, right? With rosita. Yes. Yes, we do Dodgers at the dark until next time. Peace