 And welcome to the Donahue group. We're so glad that you could join us after our wonderful good time on election night We're back here in the studio, but what is studio before we go into that? Let me introduce our wonderful panel members Former state senator Cal Potter who could not be with us on election night, but now it's all rested up There you go Tom Pineski professor at UW-Shavuigan in mathematics Ken Risto Social studies person for the Shavuigan area school district. I can't even try to get it's correct anymore You're the coordinator of social studies curriculum and assessment specialists curriculum and assessment specialist for as opposed to a general Practitioner of the Shavuigan area school district. My name is Mary Lynn Donahue. I'm a lawyer here in town and we're in this beautiful set Chestnuts roasting on an open fire. Mm-hmm pretty wreath Christmas tree It's not quite December 1st yet here at taping time But in any event we have lots to talk about and a lovely set on which to do it So we're very grateful to the folks at TV 8 for helping us out on that Before I go any further though, I wanted to just extend another thank you to Julie Glancy the county clerk And all the folks at the administration building We descended upon them with lots and lots of cables and cameras and TVs and they were very accommodating and I think you said you got good feedback people were interested to know that the Administration building was there and what the county clerk's office is and so although we caused a little turmoil I think overall it was a it was a good experience and we sure had a good Good time and Cal couldn't join us But thanks to David Gallinetti from Lakeland College who joined us with his trench and political commentary So I thought the four of us just Did it that's that's close to trench mouth Or tendentious, but I thought we we did a relatively good job and we certainly had a good time and it was a most interesting night. I was up until the wee hours and Watching United States Senate races in Tennessee and Idaho and Missouri and all over the place so but Virginia So thanks again Julie and the county for accommodating us, but we're back to not certainly Like Michigan egg not yeah, yeah, yeah I thought it was really out this first time I was down there election night And I never really knew or understood the process and so it was it was I was really impressed about how serious everybody takes their this to folks show up with those big boxes of Ballots and they stand in line patiently and there's folks down there who are looking at monitors and it's quite the event Yeah, usually there are two Computers out in the clerk's office itself and there was only one this time so that did tend to Kind of crowd things up a little bit But I think by the end of the evening we had students who had figured out how to do the computers and figure out You know which returns were coming in and again This was just from Sheboygan County, but but it was interesting and I continued to report votes for the League of Women Voters Which is why I'm down there every election and call into various little I shouldn't say little but to cable TV stations And the Wisconsin Election Service so so that's fun for me and a little fundraiser for the American Association of University women Back to the city of Sheboygan and the county of Sheboygan It appears we have a budget for the city of Sheboygan on a 12 to vote on Monday evening We're taping after that with a with a zero percent increase and actually a zero dollar increase as far as As I understand it A Zero percent in the in the levy, but that the budget itself is down one point one four percent and Only two older people voting against it Older persons Serta and Vander wheel I think it's good stuff. It's a change of pace usually Municipalities have been good at small increases, but to come in at zero An actual dollar a zero dollar amount. I mean so we're not talking about You know, I asked I had a slate of hands here Bonnie is a student out here and she also works out here besides being an older person Mm-hmm, and I I was I knew she voted no So I thought and I read the newspaper Didn't say why why the people voted no So I kind of asked I said, you know, you voted no. Why did you vote no and she? She thought that next year's budget if we this year was zero next year was going to be a big jump With health care costs going up and all kinds of other expenses she thought so I thought we could probably do it in small steps She voted no. She didn't vote for the zero increase because She was concerned that next year was going to be a big jump and she didn't want to vote for a big jump She would have she would have supported a little increase this year and a little increase next year So she wasn't saying we should cut more. It was just she thought But the 12 were a little too stringent. Yeah well in the I mean as the mayor pointed out and his multi-faceted presentation multi-board presentation Revenues from the stator absolutely flat. Yeah, she was concerned about revenues to that was down Yeah, so I mean I think that the trend is just doing more with less I don't know but that is an interesting perspective cuz normally you think people vote no cuz they want to cut it lower No, she was there. No, I think we need to show a little prudent Prudent behavior and do it in small steps and sort of nothing this year and next year bingo I did not watch the I did not watch the meeting. Did she say what Silas Vander wheelies? No, no rationale was no I didn't see the meeting either. I just asked me. No, I don't know what Silas's rationale was In years past it usually was a case where you'd build a base because you were afraid that because you'd get a cut in your aides Whether your school district or or a municipal body with aides being flat or less That's less of an incentive. So coming in with a flatter budget It doesn't have the repercussion on the aid side for the next year that I used to him Well, I remember when I was on the school board It was we were considered to be downright financially irresponsible if we didn't if we didn't increase to the base The base because that was how the the state was was awarding awarding its aid so And she was not in the state and on the case of public financing for education It's a you know for every one dollar you pony up the state ponies up about two or three, right? Yeah, like two and a half well So you're right. There's an incentive to Spend the max spend spend to the within the cap limit, right? Yeah, which is easy enough to do Yeah, it is it is so the police department the fire department and public works. They'll tell according to The past budget we'll get along with the same budget that they had This year well actually cut chief Kirk said they had a cut of five hundred thirty four thousand dollars and Alderman Berg actually Eldenburg introduced an amendment to increase the the police department budget only by a hundred fifty eight thousand so it could hire two more officers I Understand that was a long debate over an hour, but eventually failed on an eight to six vote Alderman Boren apparently said you know if to the police if you're only paying two point five percent of your premiums Toward the cost of your health insurance premiums if you paid a little bit more you'd have that money and I Don't know yeah, I think that was that's I heard the same maybe the The protective services ought to pay a little more towards their health insurance cost Yeah, and that's happening in all cities Well, I know that are growing tight. Yeah, I know in the school district now I don't know now when I left Administrators are paying five percent and I think there was a push to to increase that percentage. What is it for teachers now? Do you know I? Really don't look at when I was single. I was paying absolutely nothing okay for my health insurance I don't know if that's the case today. I really to be honest My spouse and my stepdaughter are on the family plan and I'd have to look at how much I contribute I really to be honest. I really don't look it's just the cost of doing business You know the thing about the thing about that is is that associate well unions associations? Whatever you want to call these teachers organizations that collectively bargain They know going in that generally as you said the package can't be more than 3.8 percent under the QEO So the question is when you start deciding how much money you want to give your? Employees versus how much money do you want to put in benefits and the association makes the generally Generally because the leadership of the association tends to be the older members They're much more interested in maintaining the benefits putting the money into that pile if you will and live with You know reduced increases in their salaries. I think last year in the last collective bargaining agreement It's something like of the 3.8 I think one and a half percent of it went to increases in salaries, which doesn't keep you and you know up with inflation So in real terms those cells are losing money, but you're maintaining your health You're maintaining a fairly attractive health care benefits. There's no question about that So from that point of view you're saying we you make the conscious Bargaining position that you you want to maintain your health care under the current status quo kind of conditions and you'll live with less money Although the school district has always Offered and at least since I've been paying attention more than the QEO amount The I mean the the teacher packages typically come in about you know between three point eight and four point two percent Yeah, I think the last collective. I think the last Contract it was right around three and eight three nine something like that something along those lines You know, it's good it's kind of odd, you know when you when you look at the cells I Found an old teacher contract from 1969 in my file someplace not me I didn't start that early But I actually indexed it for inflation and I found that the teachers in real terms are getting paid more in 1969 and they are now You adjust for inflation in terms of the salary schedules now, of course What happens is teachers move cells as they get more education and they have more years and that's how they really get their real Increases so cells kind of being equal to like rungs of a ladder. Yeah to put a little bit of the ladder over Well in In other words a starting teacher say first-year teacher with a bachelor's degree was making more money in Sheboyga 1969 than they are now which is what you're pretty surprising I thought there was a really increase in real terms But it actually is not when you adjust for inflation But the so the so the strategy has been to more or less take a hit if you will on salaries a little bit and Live with some pretty attractive health care benefits. There's no question about that Well, I do think there's a lot of people what people ought to be really understand is that a lot of employers in the private Sector are pushing their people into the public sector. You bet the Sheboygan area school district covers a heck of a lot of people in this county There used to be an agreement among the big employers that they wouldn't do that and quite frankly Kohler broke that accord Some year cuts a couple years ago, and they basically have been really encouraging their people to go to other Sources of health care. Oh, yes, and it wasn't very well liked among The superintendents and the other CEOs across the across the county What was interesting to me always when I was on the school board and there are nine of us sitting around the table And I think seven of us Had connections in one way or another either through work or through spouses who worked to the Wisconsin retirement system Not not health insurance, but You know there's a People whose spouses either worked in the school district were in the police department who were circuit court judges, you know, it was just an interesting the the reach of the Wisconsin retirement system not health insurance, but the retirement system was pretty broad and so I Yeah, I think that it's The tentacles go out so but I think it's interesting that the city actually Mayor Perez actually did what he said he was going to do and the and the council supported him and And as we as he always points out bitterly, don't blame me for your entire tax bill the city bill is If you're paying 2340 and property taxes on a hundred thousand dollar house 842 that goes to the city the rest is divided up between or among the county in the school district and the LPC so So interesting stuff and it appears the police station is on track Soon the plans will be Revealed, I don't know at what level if it's a nine million dollar or the press article said With a the Garage facility will be a steel structure 20,000 square feet, I believe so they're they've paired down apparently and the bricks and mortar part of it into a something That's palatious. I guess for the vehicles Polacious Well, I we can get the school kids to decorate it and it's going to be cool I just I think that we should have just taken that green building that was along the river And there would have been that we could have saved even more money And it is nice to have that building and this is off-topic But it's nice to have that building gone and actually to have that open space, which will not be there long, but It's a great view just driving up the driving down past the Armory and just looking out across the river the little love cinder block or cell block Little building is is that that's currently empty, right? It's still standing. I was just east of there. Oh, right That was like a dive. Yeah store. I think it's empty now, too I think that building's time is coming fairly soon unless they're going to turn it into a boutique or something No, I I don't know I presume I mean they're cramming a lot of stuff into that small area And one could argue that that peninsula bless its heart So what's going there is? complex condos Force stories I'm thinking okay three or four stories and I mean it looks nice At the optenberg ironworks former site which is now That's another place this level. Yeah, that looks very nice. It's a huge mound of something. Yes. Yeah, what that is That's Phil or I don't I that's the remains of the demolition. I think it's the remains of the demolition That whole I suspect that whole area This is off-topic again when those big condos get built there the property values are going to go up more houses We'll get bought that whole area on the south side. It's probably going to become More valuable could gentrify part of the problem. I think is that should wagon. It's not a problem But should wagon paper box. I think has made a clear determination to stay in that area and The car dealership is out there now, and I don't know if paper box is going to go to the south or not and I'm getting a nod from our fact checker that that is the case The word behind the camera these guys just serve multiple roles here we just love it and It's a fairly tough neighborhood though And I mean it would be interesting to see how it does gentrify out because the housing stock there except for my mother-in-law's house is is a little rough and That area has always been a good Democratic area, you know for votes, but But got nice school there now long-fellow. That's true. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, so we'll see what happens, but In any event I'm a Donny you group we're never off topic So so that's good to know tax bases expanding. Well, that's it. I'm amazed at the amount of I'm amazed at the amount of condominium Development of the rice building in the rice building. I'm looking straight right through it now Here's a much left. Yeah, I've got it right down to the girders in the flooring and But I'm just amazed at the amount of condo stock That we're going to be having and these are not cheap places not cheap places in fact the apartment building that's right in that corner of Of Lakeshore Drive and Indiana Avenue it used to be an apartment complex and they've completely renovated that and that's condominiums as well Just east of Arabella's So I'm sure they've done a demographic analysis. Yeah, post-war baby boom is Starting to retire and as a result you're going to see folks who don't want to drive far and being downtown Restaurant right by the bridge yeah, yeah a Highland house. Yeah, this sounds like a the coffee clutch around my mother-in-law's table People really don't know what's they know they see construction going on but they're really not quite sure what it all what it's all about Sure, I had a couple people thought they were just that Oppenberg was rebuilding and they were gonna It's a needed a bit different building a newer building. Yeah, boy. That was one tough one tough looking Factory site there. So it was a foundry Yeah, well, it's too bad that it went under because it was owner worker owned there for at least a short period of time And so it's kind of sad to see its demise, but the police station is finally going ahead and So we'll see how that that works out. I just wanted to spend a little bit of time talking about Just in terms of election results and we'll be talking about state issues and maybe even hit on a few national topics in our next episode but Sheboygan County again comes out as being very very conservative and Cal and and here's what I'm talking about is that Doyle lost the county And by a lot, I mean this was not a close vote at all I think it was a 55 45 split with with green As I pointed out on election night it appears that Kathleen Falk had even fewer votes in Usberg and Cedar Grove than I did Which is really a tiny tiny I think she got 15% of the vote in Cedar Grove and Usberg and she probably was counting on 20%. I don't know The marriage amendment was 70 30 In Sheboygan County and statewide was about 58 40 quick 58 42 And it's okay to be conservative And we're growing But the county and the county I think it's always been Republican But it seems to be trending the city has not grown tremendously, but the rural area has and so I think it somewhat reflects that plus some of the issues that have dominated Republican politics are ones that were raised this time they the gay issue abortion So as a result, I think Wisconsin or Sheboygan County with some of the mainline conservative Religious groups that we have here. I think it reflects that Movement into the Republican camp that's occurred over the last 10 years or so a couple weeks ago Newsweek did it a Cover story on the rise of One wants to call it the Christian right or whatever name you want to give it and they had a map of the United States And it was the Census Bureau broken down by counties was collared. Did you see that? Yes, and I was looking real carefully at Sheboygan County if you look really carefully and squint you could see it and the color If I remember something like a 30% increase in the last 10 years and the number of people in Sheboygan County who call themselves Evangelical it was a some sort of really large number. Yes And I was and I and I remember us talking about that an election night that the county had gotten, you know In some respects politically more conservative and I was starting to wonder if there was a connection between those two Especially when you can rally those types of people around issues toward a particular party Well, there are a number of things that have happened to society Sheboygan County at one time particularly in the 60s after the coal or strike was very much a labor town and Organized labor the zenith of organized labor Was about 1968 when about 39% of the workforce was unionized today It's about 16% the majority of which are AFSCME and teacher unions exactly so the private sector unionization Which which used to have a lot of political clout at one time Dictating sort of endorsed candidates particularly Democrats Has hit the skids The rise has been NRA and abortion and gay rights and evangelicals and other groups have taken place of that Block issue oriented type voting and I think Sheboygan County sort of Projects that with its strong conservative religious groups Even many of your mainline groups are on some of the social issues Are very conservative? Well, what about with the you know the condos going up Doesn't that sort of indicate that there's people with wealth? who Who are looking to move to another place or you know Even just people who live in the city or the county that they're looking to leave their home and they've Over over the years have gotten a little wealth and now want to move into a nice more comfortable place With that much maintenance Although I think that demographic isn't necessarily religious conservative. No, that's not really this is well wealth You know you tend to be a little more conservative when you have a little more money But it is true You know the way the city has expanded or where the town of Wilson has expanded to the town of Sheboygan is expanded in these You know vast you know tracks of housing It's not low and middle income middle housing middle-income housing, but he's stretching the imagination So even though the rural areas always been conservative you've got a lot more people sitting on that old farmland now living in in McMansions and And you know you could drive through my subdivision and it's it's probably a little above median income housing for Sheboygan County and You didn't see too many aolic lawn signs You didn't see too many. You know you'll I really like governor Doyle signs and so I think you're right I think between the demise of mass production jobs in the county and in the rise of these You know they would anywhere else they'd be called bedroom suburbs. They're just they're so close to the city We don't call them that You know, yeah, and I think the rise of being you know Changed even though it hasn't grown tremendously in population has changed. Yeah Yeah, and I am But I keep thinking even people moving up from Milwaukee into the Cedar Grove and Usberg area would be not so religiously conservative If you look at the strongholds of the Republican Party or Zawki Washington, oh, you walk a show counties You bet and you had a tremendous change in the mentality of people over the last 20 25 years You know whether some people would celebrate and some people would say not But you've got a large number of people who it's their mentality is pretty much, you know every man or every woman for himself Yeah, and when you live in a suburb, you don't really need a lot of social programs And you don't really need a whole lot of police protection You don't really need a whole fire protections nice to have and You're don't mind, you know, maybe somebody picks up my garbage or I hire somebody to pick up my The need for government and you don't need a public park because you're in the deck in the backyard And you don't really need public parks because you're going to the private tennis courts that you you know There really isn't a perceived understanding that the functions of government or something I really want to pay for and I can probably get by with a lot less government services And I think there's an attitude of individual responsibility towards each other has changed, too I think the attitude of the 1960s and the great society and Kennedy Johnson years today There's a lot I think it's reflective in some of the scandals we've had with Enron and so on is I've got mine If you don't have yours, what's wrong with you? Why didn't you grab yours and you know get it any way you can not so much whether your Your wealth is obscene and what you're doing to your employers and their retirement fund is a crime I don't there's a lot less outrage over some of that activity And I think some of it's just a reflection of society of me first and I've got mine And you get yours and we'll all be happy but get out there and grab what you can well that so that just Just to bring it back a little bit Terry Van Akron won 72% of the vote against Job Jose I think the Jose name In this area tends to people just don't take you seriously whether or not You know Job should have been taken seriously or not. He certainly hurt himself I think with just some fairly extreme ads and And so forth that I think in general didn't play well with the populace But does Terry Van Akron if he has a strong Republican opponent does he have trouble Even in the city. I mean I just wonder he's been gifted with some fairly easy opponents and He's got big trouble. I Just one I'd be very nervous and I'd be very careful about votes And I would hope that the governor he better hope that the governor is able to solve some of the budget problems which are enormous Without hurting constituents too much. I don't know how he does that but Like I said, you know two elections ago when we talked about this before, you know He had a very vigorous young thoughtful Kurt Zempel who's only it was a newcomer and that was a pretty tight race for Sheboygan And I think yeah, I think you know Job Jose made some comments, you know the radio ad plus the you know You can't run on a family values and talk about the you know your opponent being a veto whore It just does but there's a little cognitive dissonance And I think I know a lot of people who all of a sudden paid attention like who's this guy? Well on that happy note, we'll wrap up and there'll always be more to talk about in Sheboygan. Thanks for joining us