 Thank you for having me. Nice to see you all. So how are things in your world? Things are actually going quite well. We have been coordinating a, it had been every week and now we're going to every other week. COVID emergency response zoom call across the network of farm to plate organizations. We've had 90 plus people on those calls. Senator Leahy actually joined us last week in person on the phone. We've had the congressional delegation staff joining us each time. We've had up during those calls, we have updates about what's happening with the emergency feeding programs, getting meals out all across the state. We've also heard from distributors from retail and restaurant establishments from the grocery's association from hunger mountain co-op representing the co-ops. We've been really trying to get a full view of what's been happening across the food system in real time and using that as a way to keep people feeling connected so that they have knowledge about what's happening in different parts. So that we're not duplicating that we're really coordinating and amplifying the work getting done. So those have been going really well, and we'll continue for the foreseeable future. We've also at the jobs fund have been holding weekly calls with a number of value added food and farm and forced products businesses that have been business clients of ours both prep past and present. We've also been extremely good. And I will say the sort of a takeaway is that these calls that involve businesses where they're able to share with each other, the kinds of worker safety efforts that they're doing in house has been really valuable because it's given each other ideas about things that they can be doing to ensure worker safety in their plants if they're considered essential and open. And we've also had Lawrence Miller on the call with each one because he's one of our coaches. And so he provides an update of what's happening with all the federal responses. And we, we spent he provides advice about, you know, should you be going for the EIDL should go for PPP and just sort of like how to navigate and what to expect from Department of Labor, because he's tracking all of the state level and federal so he's able to provide a very concise view of what these businesses should be doing to both protect their cash, but also protect their workers and be able to continue to pay their workers if they can. So those have been really, really valuable. I know they're happening in other venues as well. But we're, we're continuing to have those calls weekly it gives us a real insight into what's going on we have, you know, we have Upper Valley Produce is one of our clients, we have Lawson's Finest, we're getting a sense of what's happening with the breweries. We have Lawson's quality malt so we're getting a sense of what's happening more on the grower side of things, etc. So, those have been really valuable. I would say, overall, I'm, I'm just so heartened by the kinds of things that organizations are stepping up and doing in the way in which they're working together from the food hubs working together to figure out the additional distribution farmers who have had been selling into restaurants and institutions, pivoting to both sell online and or get into the food hub network, get their products where they want to go. Many farms have have finally taken the leap of doing online sales with on farm pickups was that's a big deal for for many of them and and it's a step into a whole new world. The questions is going to be long term are they going to maintain that. Is this a short term only sort of when we have these kind of crises, or are they going to find that it actually is something that they should continue to do regularly because they're they are getting sales. I would say across the system, you have a real range happening you may have heard this from other folks you've talked to, you know, there are definitely some farms and including livestock farmers, vegetable produce farmers who are doing quite well with their sales. I know it's a number of farms that have actually sold out of their final root crops that they had for the end of the year, because the coops have been asked, you know, bought everything they had basically and now we got away to the next harvest. And then you know those the restaurants obviously the brew houses, really struggling obviously. But overall people really stepping up and trying to find ways of helping each other been just really heartened by the number of businesses like the skinny pancake and Lawson's finest and many others who are making donations, figuring out how to do meal kits, getting into the into the emergency food system. It's been really quite amazing to see how people have stepped up really quickly and mobilized, and I have to say I think that's in part because of the investments we've made over the last 10 years really of building this network, because we know each other, we know what each other does. And so we're able to really immediately get call the right people to get things to happen, rather than Oh, who should I call. Who's doing that, because we know this information so anyways, it's, it's been, it's been very interesting to sort of watch the response across. Have, have you heard any complaints from your constituents on being able to get through to the PPP program or any of these other federal programs and not able to receive any money yet. The client we checked in with all of them yesterday and many of them had started to get their loan documents they had gotten approval. So it's the process is starting a lot of this has to do I think, quite frankly with who which bank you go with and and their level of expertise and working with us. I know there's a number of banks that are like hadn't been SBA lenders and they're trying to hurry up and get approved so they can do loans as well so if you if you go with banks that have a lot of experience working with SBA, it seems to be moving as quickly. And it's quite a large amount of money actually I think there was something like $842 million it's already been approved, which is 33 as of this morning. So the money is starting to flow I think the bigger challenge has been the EIDL program there's been a lot of confusion about that. The guidance has been like just all over the place, or lack there of, and folks are just trying to figure out which are the right what are the programs that are best suited for them. And what we've been advising is to be really make sure that people are really keeping very good documentation because if they want to have this money turned from a loan into in essence a grant they have to have good documentation. So we're recommending in many cases to make sure that you actually set it up as a separate bank account so that you can have very clear ties between the money and the personnel and the rent. So we're also definitely pushing a lot around making sure people realize that if they have existing SBA loans that SBA is forgiving those loans over the next six months. So to really be in communication with your SBA officer and those kind of your bank, your loan officers and that kind of thing. Other questions for Alan. Bruce. Thanks Bobby. Hey Alan, it's good to see you. I, we had testimony, I think last week from Allison Eastman at the agency about the update on the H2A workers and how some of them, how it's been much slower obviously because of international travel travel restrictions and the like. I remember about. It seems to me a good opportunity for Vermonters who are out of work to maybe fill in some of the slots that normally would have been filled in by these workers and she said that they were working with sustainable jobs fund as one of the partners to help fill positions at farms or food producers that needed labor. And it looks from your expression it looks like maybe that wasn't accurate so I'm curious what you're doing in terms of, you know, filling in for farms that need labor because they are just a critical business. Yeah, no, I'm not sure. When we get word that there are farms like high mowing seeds for instance had 10 positions they were trying to fill immediately. A couple of weeks ago. We do everything to get it out through our network to try to get it in front of people so that if they are in a position where they could step up and do that that they are but you know other than just sort of letting people know to please let us let us know to get it out on a position so that we can help get it out, the word out. But I think it really is up to each individual farmer to try to work their networks and get it, get it out there I think because the, you know the whole h2a piece is it looks like it's going to happen like it's just a timing thing. My sense is that they're that most farms are trying to sort of hold off and be able to wait for their guys to show up because that is their preference. But it's okay so maybe maybe I misunderstood what she was talking about it's not like there was more of a coordinated effort between you guys and UVM and a couple other organizations to know it's possible that UVM and no far doing that but not us. Okay, because you know traditionally for the last few years agriculture, like pretty much every sector in Vermont has had a shortage of workers and now. Now we have a shortage of jobs so maybe we can turn the tide on on at least the ag sector getting more slots filled and getting more people working in agriculture during this crisis. What about the farm stands can be open I believe Alan, do you hear anything from people with farm stands. Just that that if they have farm stands that sales are definitely increased especially around meat, because you know greens are just starting to come in. If folks had vegetables left, you know, whatever is available from last year's harvest is is being put out there but you know a lot of folks have been looking for local meat in particular and that has been a major uptick. Is there a major difference between farm stands and farmer markets why why can't three farm stands set up side by side and and call it a farm stand bonanza or something with is that is that permissible. That's a good question. My understanding is that it's untested. Because we're, I mean we're all getting many many calls in regards to the farmer markets and hopefully, I don't know if you've heard anything from anyone in regards to how that process is working out with, you know, with the groups. Have you heard. I was on the phone call that happened emergency calling that he can talk more about it because I see she's here listening in. There was an emergency call last Friday with the farm with a lot of the farmers market managers that NOFA organized, just as the governor's announcement had been made and, or the governor's announcement had been made so a couple hours after that, they had a call to check in and they hadn't yet received the guidance that came later that day. So I've been, you know, in communication with with Maddie and Grace at NOFA to keep up on things and to provide any support that I can and just strategy with how to navigate this. You know, and obviously talk with a lot with the folks at the agency and understand the very difficult position that they're in. So, you know, I don't think anything is dead yet. And one of the things that I had encouraged on the phone last week with the farmers market managers was to get really clear about what would be the drop dead date for them to be able to open and still be available because there's there's two components right there's the individual vendors, and are they going to want to show up I mean I have one of my staff members has family members that have have immune compromise and they've already decided they're not going to participate in their farmers market this summer, even if things settle down, because the risk is there for them personally as a family. Right. So there's going to be some vendors that are going to choose not to for their own reasons and usually health related. And so they need the vendors need to make a decision economically about at what point in the season, if things are still shut down their work economically for them to participate in the market. And then on the flip side, each market, you know, has its own economic viability that it has to think about because they have fees and various expenses that they need to cover that they're capturing through the market process. So they need to decide at what point the farmers market them themselves is economically viable beyond which date they just, it doesn't make sense for them to open, or could they make any accommodation to be partially open or whatever. So I don't know to what extent each market manager has done that that thought process. I know the woman from the market manager from Burlington, you know, she just jumped right on and said well may first for us. So, and there's other farmers markets that normally don't open until the end of May so, you know, it's a range here. You know, if things open up by May 15 and for those that normally would open as long as vendors are willing to show up, then, then they're good to go. So there are a number of markets that want to be open by May 1. And then we of course have current winter markets that are winding down their season so it's complicated because as as Senator Hardy said that the primary issue here is is public health and safety, and then how do we do that in a way that enables farmers markets and Vermonters to be able to access their farmers. Yeah, Chris. We, I just want to make clear and Ellen correct me if I'm wrong. I do not believe markets will be open this weekend, but there is an announcement. We, we anticipate an announcement that there's sort of a path to getting them open before long is that your understanding about what you're hearing. I was just listening in before you all got started and that was that's that's what I'm hearing from you all so I hadn't heard the latest within the last 24 hours of how things have been moving. But you know, this has been a daily everything changes every day on this topic. So, I'm a day out on a day behind. Chris, where did you hear that I didn't hear that. I, I'm trying to remember all of the various calls but my impression somewhere along the lines was just that not not exactly where not exactly if but when, and not immediately, but an announcement sort of sooner and later is the hope and I see someone offering us something in the chat. So, we'll get into it but I just wondered if Ellen well connected had any more up to date. The governor was quoted in seven days I think it was this last night of this morning, saying that they were going to release a guidance that they expected to release some guidance. It was Wednesday Thursday they're talking about Friday tomorrow. And that farmers markets were moving up to the top of the list of what they're thinking about but it was still not there was no indication as to what the guidance would actually say. I also think it's interesting what Bobby said because that's what I've said as well like it's okay to have a farm stand here. What if somebody decided to put a farm stand 20 feet from my farm stand would that be okay. It seems like it's a good question is whether or not that would be okay. And I said that's really what a farmer's market would come down to be a group of vendors keeping space between each other and they also all realize that their health is at risk and there are so I've gotten notes from both sides and some farmers have said I don't want to go to the market. I was like, well that's cool you don't have to go to the market. Nobody's going to force anybody to go to a market particularly if they're compromised in any way so I think that something can be worked out but anyway, the information we got was from the governor being quoted in seven days. And he said that yesterday, when he was doing a press conference or something I, you know, listened to some of it. It was pretty clear they were going to come out today was tomorrow with was some new guidelines. Brian's been trying to jump in. Yeah, Brian go ahead. Thank you Mr chair and Chris. I'm wondering in the determination that was made by a CCD today see a distinction between farmers markets that operate indoors and farmers markets that operate outdoors. I should think. I think that is one of the considerations. Okay. I mean, it seems as though if you use common sense. outside, then you would be a little bit easier to mitigate than the indoor one but I don't know. And I didn't know if they made a distinction that said, because some markets go 12 months a year, what one does there's, there's an indoor market pretty much all year. And then at one at some point, usually in May, they move outside. And I just didn't know if they had made that distinction when they made the determination. And Michael have something I'm not privy to that detail, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of the consideration. Okay. And I see Michael was going to maybe weigh in on whether two or three different farms could, in a sense congregate close by each other and still call it a farm stand. Do you have something on that Michael. Yes, farm stands are supposed to actually be on the farm where where they are. The farmer is located so you can have three different farms having a farm stand on the same property. There was a discussion a few years ago about authorizing kind of group CSAs to be located on individual farms but that that never that never materialized. So a farm stand is supposed to be on the individual farms property. Yeah. Yeah, I just wanted to, to mention a couple things one that and Alan you may have more information but my impression is that this year. Enrollment in CSAs has skyrocketed as more and more people are trying to get local food safely. And CSAs often have, even though it's not a joint CSA one, you know if there's a produce CSA they might have milk or meat from a different farmer but that farmers not on the CSA they just sell their product to another farmer who then includes it in their CSA. I know that mine does that so I think that we should be highlighting the fact that CSAs are doing really really well and people are getting, you know, signing up to get local produce and vegetables and meet milk etc through local CSAs. And I know a lot of farmers, as you mentioned are starting online sales and doing these sort of pop up farm stands that may be temporary but they're doing the best they can to get their product out there to consumers. So I just wanted to give a shout out to both the farm to plate and the no fi no maddy's on the call to websites you both have really good resources and I have been sharing those with people in my district so just if you haven't checked them out yet both of them have really good websites. Great thanks. So if, if there isn't anything else, we're going to be for Ellen, we're going to move on and talk with Michael in regards to our Addison County field days issue for a few minutes and then we'll go back and pick maddy up. Yeah, and 10 or 15 minutes. Yes, can I just add one last final thing I did send along to Linda it's on your website. A short speech that I gave actually back in mid February about the very vulnerable position that we are in with the very concentrated supply chain for food that we have in this country. There's a couple of graphics on the third page that show this was some research that was done within the last year about food flows within the United States and you'll see in that visual, how constrained we are with getting food flows basically up the I corridor and, and it makes us very vulnerable and my speech was actually about climate emergency issues, but obviously pandemics are showing themselves right now. So I just encourage you to take a look at that if you're interested because after we get through this emergency period then the recovery and resilience phases need to start and we're very actively involved in conversations with the other states about how to significantly increase regional food production for regional consumption, and to rework our supply chain so that more of the food being produced in New England stays in New England. And I'd be happy to come back some other time to talk with you about that. It's very early just getting underway but a lot of people because of this pandemic are really realizing how vulnerable we are in the region. But because of the food being so concentrated within a few, in a few areas, and just, you know, seeing crops being tilled under in Florida and milk being dumped and now issues with meat processing plants and other parts of the country going down because of worker poverty and all those kinds of issues. We're just really vulnerable and I think we have a basically a once in a lifetime opportunity right now to reach to reshape our supply chain and be able to become more resilient and more self sufficient within the region. Yeah, thank you for that offer I think Chris has a question. I'm just music to my ears, Ellen and we look forward to partnering with you on that. I'm curious given your work on the on the working lands fund and and the discussion you see ahead. Do we, is it fair to to summarize that working lands is in some ways been about markets, more than food systems or I mean, it's a plan I'm not trying to be critical but are you now suggesting that there is a little bit of a shift in terms of food systems, as we've been working hard to stimulate markets rightly I think we need both but I'm just curious if, if that's a fair summary because I sort of trying to be banging on this drum for a while and, and I think the pandemic does make it very plain. The vulnerability but I've kind of hope that our food production could feed us and and I wouldn't say it's met with resistance but it's not been a clear mash and I'm just wondering if that's a, I don't know really what I'm after other than say this is great news I look forward to doing it but I wonder kind of why we haven't been doing it so far. Yeah, it looks like we can grow a lot of food we just can't get it to market. And just the really quick response and I'm happy to talk with you offline to Senator Pearson about this is, you know, with working lands grants they have been a combination of trying to open up new markets, increasing production for certain types of products, and also strengthening the distribution and processing system so it really has, we have taken a very full food systems view of all the components of the supply chain and trying to strengthen different parts and pieces and we, and in the deliberation around the various grant proposals we think about it from that, from that lens of like is this a strategic grant that's going to help this part of the supply chain is it going to do this. So we do really think about that and try to be as strategic as possible. Mr Chair, I would just say, once we get out of the immediate crisis and make sure our people are working and having come secured. I hope this can be a big focus of ours. I think it's overdue and I'm very excited at incredible potential for our rural economy and for food safety. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Ellen, and we'll make a note of that question. I'm sure Ruth will keep that in her notes. Thanks, guys. Take care. Be safe. Thanks again. Michael, in regards to the Aston County situation, have you done any research or any more thought, had any more thoughts about what we might be able to do to rectify that situation because, you know, July or August is coming. And we want to make sure that those folks are going to be able to open their fairgrounds with their welcome center. Can you just remind me what the issue is? The issue is they want A&R DC wants them to do septic system. Okay, thank you. So Michael, did you look into that any further with anyone other than Matt? I have talked to Matt Chapman at A&R but I haven't gone beyond that. What I want to highlight and there's a document on the website, which it's background information. And it notes that last year you changed the holding tank law to allow holding tanks to be used for buildings or structures that will, that will host events for 28 days or less in a calendar year. And so that's how Aston County is going forward with their wastewater treatment. But there are requirements for holding tanks underneath the statute, one of which is that there needs to be a financial bond or other financial security sufficient to finance the maintenance of the holding tank for the life of the system, for which is at least 20 years. And in addition, the holding tank needs to be capable of holding at least 14 days of the design flow from the building. So talking to Matt at A&R, the issue, and I'm just the messenger, I don't know what's accurate, who's right and who's wrong, I'm sure the fair has another side of the story. A&R is saying that the fair has missed all the deadlines for permitting that the agency still needs to figure out what the adequate flow at the, for the system is, and that the fair has not provided the required financial instrument to provide surety for the 20 years or the life of the tank. So I have, when we last talked about this in committee, I told you that you at the legislature has addressed these kinds of issues in the past through legislation. And at the end of the document that I put online, it's on page seven of the document on your web page, I've given you an example of that. In 2001, you addressed the use of holding tanks at two different places, one the Shrewsbury Library and then an Oak Hill Children's Center in Pal-Nall. You have not withstood certain requirements for holding tanks in order to authorize that the holding tank to go in at those two places. So that, you've, this is precedent prior practice. If you wanted to legislate around the use of the holding tank at the Addison County Field and Fair Days, you have precedent for doing that. And then it would be how you would want to legislate around it. Well, of course the fairs only open five days and I'm sure both the properties in Shrewsbury and in the library in the other place are open more than five days a year. And so I think we would certainly be within our bounds to do something similar to what we did back then when we allow those tanks to go in. And maybe we need to change the days of that from, we put 14 in there when we wrote the bill last year. And so should we change that back to five or six days if we were going to do legislation? Well, well, first in my discussions with Matt, Matt said that they are there are using a five day standard for the flow and not a 14 day standard because, and they're I think that that's a big concession for them. But they still need to figure out what's the adequate flow. And so that that is what they're trying to do. I also, I posed some questions to Matt the other day about would there be funding available to the field and farm days to help with them putting in the system. Matt is listening to this and he just emailed me and said that the agency is going to meet internally this afternoon on the questions that I posed to him about financing and other questions. So I think you'll have some additional information from them. Hopefully by the end of the week. Any comments from anyone else, Ruth. Michael, I just wanted to clarify because we did what I thought was supposed to have been a legislative fix on this issue last year. And it didn't end up being a legislative fix on this issue and, you know, it was a certainly a learning process for me as a first year legislator so I'm just curious. What did we, what did we miss last year that that we could do this year I thought we, yeah, I thought we fixed it but we obviously didn't so what did you get my question. I do. So, prior to last year, a holding tank wouldn't have been authorized for use at the field and fair days and they would have had to put in a full system, which would likely have been more expensive than a holding tank. So you what you did last year is you ended the holding tank law to allow for a holding tank to be used at a property where it's only going to be used. No more than 28 days in any calendar year to host events, and it has to be owned by a charitable religious or nonprofit organization. And that gave the field days the opportunity to use a holding tank, which is likely less expensive than a full, probably in Addison County a full mound system in Addison County. But there are still requirements for the use of a holding tank. It's just that they have to be designed appropriately, which is the flow issue. And they need financial surety, so that the agency the state is confident that they will be maintained properly they have to be pumped out they have to be, there's a there's a whole suite of requirements for, for, for what the tank needs it has to have a monitoring device it has an alert system and such or such or and so there needs to be financial surety there that all of that is running properly. You fixed it but the field days still needs to meet the requirements for its use. We fixed it but we didn't go quite far enough and use the same exemptions that we allowed the other two places that have holding tanks or right. So I want to be clear what you not with stood in in 2001 for Shrewsbury and for the Oak Hill. It wouldn't be the same, you would have to address different criteria here and not withstand different criteria here. And so that that's, I just gave you Shrewsbury and Oak Hill as examples of how you have legislated around holding tanks in the past for specific sites. Crash. I keep jumping ahead of Brian Brian go ahead. I just have three quick points I hope I hope they're quick. How much does it cost is anyone know to get a bond. Is that a really expensive situation, or is it something that would not necessarily be that costly. That's first question. Secondly, if we not withstood this particular thing with that include that bond situation. And the third thing is I'm assuming we're taking this up, even though technically it doesn't have anything to do with a COVID situation, that it would give assurance to the Addison group that down the road they wouldn't face this hurdle in order to open up. Well, I think, yes, and you know that's kind of a timely. We may not be back in session. So we're going to have to probably add something to some language rolling through that we do remotely. Okay, and I'm fine with that I just wanted to make sure that that point was at least raised. Yeah, and Chris. I'm feeling a little torn here because I have enjoyed the Asin County field days personally and I think it's an important community event. But can you just restate Michael. We, we quote unquote solve this problem last year. I'm a card blush. We said, you know, here are the ways that you can use a holding tank which is outside of the norms of our expectations. And then what are the criteria within that exemption that has been so hard for them to, to meet can you just restate that I'm sorry I know you did already but So, so this is again according to the agency. Let me step back. So there is a is a section of law that allows for the use of holding tanks in the state instead of a fully designed wastewater system slash septic system. There are limited eligibility or limited uses where the holding tank can be used instead of the wastewater system. You amended those eligibility requirements last year to allow for an event, a building that holds events for no more than 28 days in any calendar year, and as a nonprofit. There are still requirements for the use of a holding tank, one of which is that it needs to basically be adequately designed so that it doesn't pose a threat to public health. And one of those requirements is that it has to be designed for the appropriate flow. The standard that is in statute is that shall be capable of holding at least 14 days of the design flow from the building. Now the agency is saying that they're not going to use the 14 day standard they're going to use the five day standard because that's the actual flow at the field days. But they actually have to figure that out, they have to figure out what the flow is in order to approve the design of the system. And the agency is saying that they are that they have to confirm finalize the actual flows from the monitoring performed last year. And they need to provide the fair needs to do this they need to prove the fair needs to provide a final design for the system and provide a final design for the water supply for that system. And so the fair according to the agency has not done that. Other requirement that is at issue is that you have a financial bond or other surety to ensure the maintenance of the system for 20 years. And the agency is saying that the, that the fair has yet to provide that they are looking for. The agency does not propose to the agency to use a line of credit, instead of a bond, or other approved line of surety agency doesn't want to use a line of credit. They say as a general matter lines of credit are normally not adequate for a regulatory program and are equivalent to a financial test corporate guarantee. They want a bond or other approved surety. So those are the two issues the flow and design and the financial surety for the 20 year life. And the flow part, I don't want to drag this on. That's all was measured last session. And what, what they're saying at the fair is they attract X number of thousands of people. They had like three facilities, three bathroom facilities before. And they added the fourth facility. But the same number of people go to the fair each year, roughly within a thousand. And that so they aren't taking on any more waste than they were before. And, and they're just dividing it up amongst four facilities instead of three. So they're, you know, they're kind of in an argument with DC over, over having to put up a bond to, you know, to move forward, which I think we've got a letter from Kerry's wife from representative from down there. And it was quite a lot of money. They were going to have to pay out each year for that bond. And rather than to keep this discussion going, Ruth, could, could you look into that sometime and, and I think the information is all there. Your engineer just hasn't sent it into to DC, but Matt seems to be fairly good to work with them. And we should get this resolved, but go ahead, Chris. No, that's good. Ruth looking into it satisfies me. I'll get more information from Addison County Fair and Field Days and, and we can come back to this. So, yeah, we'll do. And so we'll, we'll move on to the next item. Maddie, you're on, you're on. You're muted. But we haven't got a lot of time because I see Liam birthing's already come on and Diane's there and, and I would expect Catherine to be on it for 11 or shortly thereafter. So, Maddie, why don't you give us an update on. Maybe you've been in on some of the negotiations that maybe we're supposed to get some announcement tomorrow. So yeah, and I actually just saw that news for the first time yesterday to the seven day story came out so I don't have any more information than what's there. I haven't been involved in any additional conversations about what those guidance guidelines might look like and I was hoping that I would love to hear directly from someone from the Department of Health, or the Department of Public Safety because we know far really hoping to convene, you know, some type of working group to work together with those with those agencies to develop some guidelines that they would consider workable. And the beginning was that really the issues with the last round of guidance that the agency that I was hoping to put out were we're coming the decisions were really coming down from the Department of Health, and public safety so we're hoping to work together with them going forward and we're just waiting and seeing as you all are to see what the guidance looks like that comes out tomorrow. The only I, the committee should weigh in on on my thoughts here that I'm going, I, I think, you know, tomorrow we should get what, get what they propose, and then maybe early next week that things are still way up in the air. We need again to try to resolve with with somebody from the administration. But we ought to give them an opportunity to, you know, a few more days to see what they come up with. And hopefully because, you know, we've got, we want people to be safe and healthy and don't want to spread this disease any further than it already is. You know, the farmers have got a pretty good record of producing good fresh, wholesome food and we don't want unhealthy people to be spreading covert 19. So maybe we'll see what they do tomorrow and go from there. Any other suggestions. Bobby. Yes. A couple of thoughts. Maybe the first one is kind of a question for Maddie. I saw one email which might have been actually to Senator Hardy I forget where there was so many emails floating around but in which Abby I think it was Abby said that they had been working with no fun developing the guidelines that sort of paraphrasing but it's that, I mean, I'm wondering just how involved you have you been working with them to develop those guidelines. Yeah, thank you for the question. We had work been working with the agency really really closely. As of a couple of weeks ago we had been having regular conversations with Alyssa and Abby at the agency to develop some guidelines that we all felt might be workable and my understanding is that I don't know all the details but it sounded like, you know, Abby or Alyssa had sort of run those proposals up the chain. And then what had come back from the Department of Health was what was then reported on the call last Friday which was at least initially that farmers markets were not able to operate in any form. Even curbside pickup and preorder but then that was later somewhat further clarified by the additional guidance put out by the agency that farmers markets basically were not able to do any in person transactions per the executive order so yeah prior to you know a couple weeks ago we were like closely with the agency to try to develop those guidelines and the ones that we shared with you last week are sort of what still stand in terms of what we would like to see implemented. And those were developed, you know in concert with the agency not to say that they were necessarily advocating strongly for those exact proposals but we did work together with them on them. And you know they were developed in looking at what some markets in Vermont have proposed, they're able to do somewhat what's happening in other states. Yeah, so those are still kind of what we would like to see implemented and we will sort of be also curious to see what comes out tomorrow and we'll kind of respond accordingly. Yeah, I do want to say also that I was able to take a look at the letter that Michael Grady drafted for the house ad committee and we really appreciate that letter. I also think the second version of it is better and more clear in terms of, you know the first letter referenced the inability of farmers markets to even do preordering curbside pickup necessarily the case if they could do it without any person to person transaction. So the second letter is is clear in that regard. And we would definitely we're really appreciative of both the committee support on this and would encourage you to join in signing on to that if you're able. But it seems to me that like to wait until after they put out the guidance then there's no sense in us writing them a letter if they've already done what they're going to do. So I would like to personally I would like as a committee to go on record as supporting the kinds of things statements that are made in the letter, so that they are aware that that's our position, instead of waiting for them to come out with a guidance or reacting to it. That's what we've been doing all along and sort of tired of waiting for their guidance is and then reacting to them and the guidance is tend to be the same one that they gave us last time. Thought for the committee to consider. I would hope. I mean, you know, and tonight had a pretty good chat. Yesterday, and I think, you know, I think we ought to. I'm trying to support the house with their, with their letter to you know, but I think if, if things don't change to quite a lot of quite a bit tomorrow, then it'd be time to weigh in heavily. So, with that, Brian. I want to express my disappointment that, you know, we hit tomorrow and there's been a full week that's gone by that. In essence could have been some of that time could have been spent getting the guidelines together so that the markets could be operating this week and I, I'm just disappointed if in fact they're not going to be able to. So I agree with Senator Polina that I think I would like to go on record as supporting the markets, being able to open as quickly as possible. And I just, I very disappointed that we, I don't want to say we've wasted a week but we've let a week go by without being able to successfully find a solution there's got to be a solution. Yeah, but do you guys think indoor farmer markets are as wise as they might be. Not necessarily. I don't necessarily think that I think that no fun others have come up with a set of guidelines that makes sense for outdoor markets and that's kind of where I'm coming from. I'm not taking a position indoor versus outdoor I think the outdoor seems healthier obviously because you get space out more and you got more you're in the fresh air so different kind of thing. We're talking about music and pets and, you know, payment and crowds we're talking about allowing farmers to set up tables and operate the way they are in other states quite honestly I mean it's interesting that they're doing it and I think almost 20 other states are allowing farmers markets to go forward I had a talk with a neighbor the other day, who's young adult son lives in San Francisco. I couldn't believe that we weren't doing farmers markets allowing for me said he went goes, people go to the market they go up to a table things are prepackaged. You point at the bag of potatoes you want the farmer puts on the table you pick it up after the farmer backs off. And you pay for it I mean, it seems like further states can do it I don't see why it's so difficult for us to do it we're supposed to be such champions of farmers markets and local food. Well, if you did do the committee want to make a decision on that today or would you prefer to wait and see what we hear tomorrow and, and then we could do something the first of the week. Yeah, I would just say, I, I think we're very clearly on the record of supporting farmers markets, we're all death and we've emailed Abbie we've heard from Abbie a week ago. I don't feel like it's a mistake to send a letter today, but I take the chair's point that tomorrow we're getting an announcement, and it may be duplicative and next week we would want to, you know, further push. So, to me, well, I don't, I'm not against the letter, I think we're just as well to wait though I don't think our letter today is going to change anything. No. No, I don't think sorry the rules. Yeah, I just, I was like, I would agree with that I think if there's going to be an announcement tomorrow and I just want to push back on the idea that the past week has been wasted I think there have been a lot of people working on trying to get updated, trying to get guidance for these markets and most of them throughout the state haven't opened yet. There are a few that are open and I know that two of you have those markets in your district. So I'm sympathetic absolutely Brian and Anthony. But as I said before, we are in a global pandemic and we have to make sure that that that health considerations come first for the vendors. And for the customers of these markets and if the past week has provided the opportunity to have safer farmers markets then I think that that's time well spent. Well, I think we'll, we'll drop this here in regards to the farmer markets. Maddie quick. Just one closing point is to say that I totally agree with your route that we need to put public health and safety first but I also just want to stress that time is really critical in this regard because we already know I'm not sure if you all have seen that the Shelburne market has actually already decided to close for the entire 2020 season, because they can't continue to operate under this level of uncertainty and they've decided to basically just, you know, do the things that they can control and help their other modes of getting their food to people. So we really are just very concerned about the impacts that this uncertainty is having on markets and on farmers and I will say in Shelburne you know a lot of those producers may be located in areas that are a little that have a little bit more population density and therefore farmers might have more options than they do in other areas of the state to pivot in that way. So we just want to stress that markets are in a really hard position and need some clear guidance. I also just want to close on that that we agree with I think the general gist of the letter as it stands right now that markets should be allowed to operate as outdoor, you know, shopping locations with very clear and appropriate social distancing and preferably not just as online pre-ordering curbside pickup which you know eliminates this and others ability to protect it. Thank you and we're happy to come back and talk about this after tomorrow. Yeah, thanks Maddie for your time and we'll stay in touch. Thanks Maddie. Thanks Maddie. So we have now we've got Diane Boswell on Liam Berthium and is Catherine on yet? Yes I am. Yeah good to see you all. We were wondering, you know, we get calls in regards to the milk dumping issue and so I guess we'd like to hear, you know, from Liam and Catherine basically in regards to, you know, how the milk is flowing if it, you know, if we're done dumping and then yesterday I think it was the day before I was reading a bunch of material and saw where milk could be used as fertilizer and was wondering if you folks were into that at all. Instead of dumping it in a pit you spread it like on your corn ground or things Elf Elfer. So I was wondering about that too. I don't know if DFA wants to start off or Catherine and the other, the other issue that has come up besides dumping milk, if the production of cheese could be ramped up any busy to make it. We use this milk up to make cheese with. And if it could be used at the powder plant if you could run that anymore to make more powder rather than just wasting the milk. So if you could comment on those issues. And then we'll have a discussion. Can you invite me for it or you want to go ahead. You can. Why don't you start Catherine then I'll go second. Okay. Well, good morning I hope you all are doing well despite all this, these conditions right now. So to give you an idea of you know to kind of backup for a second and help you understand why we are seeing dumping, not only in Vermont but you know across the nation it's just been unbelievable. You know you need to think about dairy demand as being made up of three functions. Retail food service and exports. And the problem we're seeing right now is because of all of the shutdowns lockdowns whatever you want to call them food service has essentially all but been eliminated. And so the demand situation has the demand shock has created a situation where we cannot get milk into plants at a rate that we need to right now. So we are still milk is still flowing to all of our plants as it always has of course this is a tricky time of year for this all to be happening with the spring flush going on. But what we're seeing is because of the loss of demand in the food service category, all of that milk is now getting backed up and there are some plants where they may across the nation where they're only doing food service and they're having to shut down or lower their production, because there's no demand for their products right now. So all of that milk then gets backed up onto the other plants and is tried. We're trying to soak it up elsewhere. And so the situation we're faced with now is, you know, I'm hearing conservatively that we're estimating we have now about 10% over supply of milk, because of this loss of demand. I'll tell you that in agrimark right now. We're fair, we're struggling but we are faring a little bit better than some of our counterparts thanks to the investments that we've made in our plants. So we have about 75% of our production that goes through our plants at any given time. We're fairly well insulated. The rest of that will go to other plants class one bottleers, etc. And by our current estimate estimates because of the backup of milk all trying to find a home in the same processing plants that are operating. We have about 5% of our production currently that is at risk for not having a home. And that's equating to roughly about 20 million pounds per month of milk that we're really fighting to find a home for and everyone's fighting for it so people are basically giving it away. And so we are dumping milk and unfortunately we're in the position that until we restore the demand and food service, we're going to be dumping milk until that that becomes resolved. So to answer your question on are we are we done dumping I hate to say we're not there yet. I, I can't speak to your, your question on milk used as fertilizer that is so far from my expertise I won't even try. Diane can answer that that's a good one. In terms of can we ramp up cheese production can we ramp up powder production. The answer to that is yes, but we already have. In our own plants I said that 75% of our milk typically goes through our plants, we're now operating that maybe about 78 or so percent of our milk going in. Now we can do that and we're thankful that we have the opportunity to do that but we don't really like to run the plants that hard. Because when you do and you don't give downtime and things like that you can you can run into some challenges so, but we do have some flexibility there. But the problem is right now all of that milk that was going into plants that would make food service cat products is now all competing to get into a very limited amount of processing that would do retail. So, I would say at this point in time we have ramped up cheese powder butter whatever it is every plant that is in operation is is operating at full capacity if not a little bit over full capacity. And you know we're just in a situation where we just need to get that demand restored. We need to get our supply under control. You've probably seen there's some a lot happening in that regard we're seeing plant we saw a plan come out of national milk and IDFA. I think it was last week, suggesting an incentive for farmers to reduce production. I think cooperatives taking it into their own hands asking farmers to exit the industry asking them to cut their production voluntarily. You know, everyone's really, really moving on this. My personal feeling is, we need to move fast at a national level because if we don't address this nationally speaking where it's going to be kind of hate to say a blood bath. We don't resolve it nationally people are going to take it into their own hands and do things and that will help, but we're still going to be in a rough situation you know the prices look so bleak right now especially going into May and June. And we're going to be seeing a lot of farms going out of business. Have you folks, have you instituted a supply demand type program and agri-mart Catholic. Yeah, so we did. And actually, we started that in January of this year and we did that. And actually, before coronavirus went into play to address some of our own internal supply challenges. You know whether we tweak that a little bit moving forward is, you know it's a board decision that I'm sure we will be having, but we're not there yet and you know the other thing for us because we're a little insulated and I said it's only about that 5% of our production that we're really at risk for. We have a little bit of flexibility and I think there's the feeling amongst our members that we kind of need to wait to see what happens at the national level. We don't want to make any sort of moves within our cooperative that then is just further challenged or, you know, changes that dynamics of how a national program would work for our farmers. I would say in a little bit of a holding pattern for the next week or two until we start to hear some more details coming out of USDA. Yeah. Questions for Catherine from committee members. Ruth has a question Ruth. Yeah, thanks Catherine. I've been following the news about agri-mart because I'm here in Addison County. I know that you up production pretty significantly at the Middlebury plant and moved a lot of sort of white collar workers into the production line and I've even seen ads looking for workers so I'm just wondering from the labor perspective, what's the situation. And, and also are you, are you feeling confident in your operations being able to follow that health guidelines or work safe workplace safety. Yeah, good questions. Our labor situation right now is looking pretty good so you know when, when this all started breaking even before the lockdowns went into place I'm really proud of our team for how forward thinking they were. And all the, you know, the contingency plans that we've had for years all of a sudden now come into full force and are adapted for the current situation that we were in. So, yeah, we've we've tried to make some changes on the labor front to, you know, circulate people and just make sure that if we do have an outbreak heaven forbid. We have plans in place to make sure that that plant continues to run. We did ask some of our management office staff to assist in some of the plants and that was hugely helpful, you know, particularly just because these guys and gals that are going into these plants. So they're really anxious they're, they're essential workers and they're hearing all the news and they're concerned about their, their health their families health. And so, you know, part of that was to just make sure that, you know, we're all in this together where we have a nice agro mark habit family. And we want to make sure that we can give those guys and gals a break when they can. So that's where our operations are right now. We haven't had any positive cases. Though, you know, we're taking enormous steps right now to make sure that our, our employees are safe. We have care teams set up at each of the plants as you've probably seen where we're taking temperatures. Before anyone comes into the plant, just increasing communication so people know the new sanitizing sanitizing practices, social social distancing measures, all of these different things. So I have to say, you know, though this is a very challenging situation I am, I feel so proud to be working for an organization that is taking care of their employees in this way so I do feel really good. And at this point it seems like we may have reached that peak and hopefully we're getting into a better position. My biggest concern would be in our West Springfield facility there's many more cases popping up in that area so I you know that's a much bigger hot zone than our plants in New York and Vermont. So I'm a little concerned there but again as I said we have contingency plans in place and ready to change things up if if there becomes an issue. Yeah, other questions for Catherine. If not right now. Thank you Catherine and we'll move on to Leon. Good morning and thank you for the opportunity to address the group this morning. Thank you for your continued role in leadership and involvement, you know in our culture. Catherine certainly has, you know, covered a number of key points with you this morning. We're all working through a totally disrupted time right now that is affecting all industries in one way or another, and you know obviously dairy demand has, you know, obviously been impacted. The only time that here seasonally is when we are still, I think, ramping up our production as we normally would be doing in the spring months. I think just looking at the Northeast Federal Order pool, our March production was about 2% over last March. So again, indicating that, you know, having more challenges as production continues to climb here in the spring months. We have the class for usage, which is the butter powder, you know, category. Again, we had more volume in March this year than we did last year obviously for various reasons but, you know, about 18 and a half percent of the pool now is into that class for category so indicating that, you know, more and more milk is trying to get to the balancing plants that Catherine spoke about this morning. And with our facilities, whether it's the Sid Albans location or with DFA, we're trying to process, you know, the milk at, you know, the maximum levels. And we're continuing to do that here in Sid Albans to serve certainly our local customers, you know, with not only their liquid products, you know, such as cream and skim condense but, you know, our facility is also producing, you know, milk powders that's part of the broader industry, milk powder sales networks. And, you know, obviously our DFA products, you know, and our powders go to U.S. customers, including many in the Northeast as well as going amount to a certain amount to global customers. And we're continuing to see the milk powder demand slow, whether here in the U.S. in Mexico, which happens to be obviously the U.S. two largest markets as well as BFA's. And we're trying to continue to maneuver the supply chain and demand disruption due to the COVID-19. Milk production I think was already at almost capacity levels in January. I think if you were read that someone suggests we were at a 90% capacity now going into the spring months. I think we are trying to push every lever that we can to increase, you know, more utilization of milk in our balancing plants, and to work with our customers to the extent that they can take on additional milk in their facilities. Obviously there are challenges where those may not have any markets for them, but also one of the things we're seeing is increasing inventories that are growing at whether it's, you know, these balancing plants, or again other processing plants, are really creating some concerns in terms of how much inventory should a processing company continue to grow. And in some areas are our challenges, even with cold storage and other warehousing challenges and so that could be also impactful as we're going forward. I believe right now our commodities, you know, inventories are growing and that's we're seeing that from some of the prices and the price declines that Catherine spoke about. And again, it'll be interesting to see what's happening globally as well in terms of what interventions like the European Union will take as it relates to the increase, you know, overall powder production. So we're in the same situation that every day is a different day in terms of how much milk is being utilized, you know, by our customers but again every day we're maximizing again these facilities as well as other DFA facilities in the region. We are again concerned about the amount of milk that needs to be disposed of we recognize that our members also have nutrient management plans that again comes to the issue around fertilizer that they need to also take into consideration. If they're receiving any milk back at their farms. And so that's an area that you know certainly needs to be considered. Again in terms of the cheese, you know, production as I said we are having conversations daily with customers, terms of what more they have for capacity to convert. In many cases they already are maximizing others that has the capacity is because they really don't have the, you know, the market which was again primarily the food service market to really continue to build any more inventories so that's where we are seeing a decline in manufacturing capacity. So which is really creating, you know, overall challenge relative to I think because of this right now. I think everybody is really taking a hard look at their own internal policies reevaluating all their policy options to deal with the situation and saying how do we reduce, you know, overall milk production. The organizations are doing, you know, review as Catherine said in terms of their own policies, and really looking at, you know, how do we again address the situation because we, we, or at least myself don't anticipate that this will be we'll recover from this in any time soon. So we're going to be dealing with this out of balance for months. In the forefront. And so we've got to really address the overall milk production for being to our members that, you know, as much as milk prices are low we can't afford to have additional milk production on the market. So I'll stop there. So, do you, do you folks at DFA have any kind of a supply control system yet, Liam. Yeah, so again, initially, you know, we had established a spring over spring program that was going to take effect. Right now we're evaluating that model and other models to see right now if we should be moving to again, something different, you know, as Catherine says are trying to understand what true demand is going forward, and then looking at, you know, how do we determine what production levels we want to set. So we're in the process of right now discussing and and looking at potentially making some changes to our programs. Yeah, and you, how much of the milk, your milk, do you utilize yourselves, you know, through, right through DFA's manufacturing plants. Again, I think, you know, we're certainly not at the level, you know that Agamark is is probably across the Northeast or probably in that 30 to 35% range, where a majority of the milk that we would be marketing would be to to other processors and manufacturers in the region. Yeah. And have, have either of you lost any farms because of this virus and, you know, where they've had to get out because of low milk pricing. There have been some farms that have made plans to exit this spring even prior to COVID-19. But you know, specifically since COVID-19 right now, I'm not aware of a particular farm but I, I know that they're concerned and I think one of the things that we need to be able to tell these farmers is what they can plan on in terms of assistance provided to them so they can make the best decisions. Yeah. Catherine, have you, have you lost any at Agamark or heard of any going out. I am not aware of any that we have lost yet at this point I think similar to what Leon was just saying it would be people that were planning on going out already. The thing to, you know, there's so many moving pieces at this point in time. You know if you look at the milk prices. They really aren't hitting until May milk. So, at this point, it's really a lot of anxiety over. Okay, two weeks from now. What's my, is my milk price really going to be $12. Catherine you can't be right, right. I hope you're not. I hope I'm, I like to be right but I hope I'm really, really wrong this time around. I think it's going to take a little while to see all the farms go out because of the delay in milk prices man June is going to be running it's really hard. I'm sure there are going to be a handful of people that are going to look and say you know what maybe I don't want to buy the seed by the fertilizer whatever. Maybe now's the time to go out, but then you look at the beef market and it's just you know they're facing such similar challenges right now that there's not a great market to to call your animals. So that's not a great route to go down and and then the other thing is I think a lot of people are hanging on to see what the federal government comes up with in terms of assistance. If they come for us and I pray that they do that could keep people lingering for a little bit longer. At least to a point, you know maybe it doesn't save them in the long term but at least gets them to the point where they can withstand the next couple of months. And then when you know alternative that you know the beef market or something comes back into play, they have a better, better way to exit the industry. And I see that the tide of losses is certainly coming our way unfortunately but I hope that we can cut those losses with with some federal assistance. Chris. Yeah, thank you. I'm just curious, you know, both of you are our co ops that are farmer owned. And yet it always feels like farmers are sort of treated like independent contractors and, and I'm curious, the statement that we anticipate some farms going under. Do we. Can you can you talk about what steps, each of the businesses are doing to just react to that or is there ever a time where the co op says you know if people could reduce production by 15%. I think we could keep everybody afloat or you know any kind of co op wide strategy that you, you ever attempt or, or, or talk about or work with members on or is it truly just that that the market takes care of it and you roll with whatever comes down the line. I'll start and I think there is no question that you know certainly as a cooperative we try to provide as many services certainly and support to our members as we can, but ultimately, you know, first and foremost, the overall milk price will have the impact to the financial viability, you know, of the farms. And I think that's right now what we're all wrestling with. And, you know, you, you're aware of the national milk idea of a proposal, again trying to send the message that we do need to reduce overall production sooner than later, if we're going to be able to have, you know, any impact to these markets going forward in the short term. I think from the cooperative level, obviously we're trying to bring production back in line with our own markets in the region and that's why many of us have instituted whether it's two tier pricing base access or some other type of program to try to, you know, allocate costs, you know appropriately across the membership so that, again, not all members are bearing the cost of someone else's growth, for example. So we're looking at that respect. I think the other thing that we've tried to do is over more recent years is encourage members to look at risk management strategies. Again, this is where the dairy margin coverage program comes into play. And unfortunately, we have very small sign up of farms in Vermont this year. And that's why it's imperative that we get that dairy margin coverage program reopened because that will help soften the impact of the lower milk price that we're expecting. But we have members that also do forward contracting and other elements that again will assist them through this downturn, you know, as we move through the spring months that Catherine has spoken about. So then we also really assist them on, you know, certainly leveraging their purchasing power right now and their cash flow, which again can assist some of these farms, especially through the spring months when there is a more outlay of cash. So I'll pass it on to Catherine to see what you'd like to add. Yeah, I mean, I'll echo all of those and just add, you know, it's the best thing. I mean, there's so many things so many avenues that we're trying to take right now to to help our individual farmer members that, you know, the federal level and exploring all of their different options. But we also need to make sure, you know, one major way to support our farmers is to make sure that they have a market for their milk and a co op that is strong enough to survive financially. So, you know, it's always that balance of, you know, helping the farmers as much as we can giving them as much of a prices we can while also making sure that we are able to continue operation. You know, one thing that's been really helpful, or we see is going to be very helpful as we've applied for an SBA loan. So, you know, if that can help the co op and all of the extra costs that we have been incurring. As I talked about, I think with increasing our wages to hazard pay for our employees, all these different things that the co ops doing to just make sure that product continues to flow. It's very helpful for our financials. And when our financials are strong, that puts less pressure on the co op having to go back to the farmer owners for some of the losses. So we're happy that that opportunity, what was made available. Yeah, questions from command members. Thank you, Bobby, you both have touched on sort this issue a little bit and Chris's question got to this a bit but in under normal circumstances, whatever that is, and under this current not normal circumstance. Do you have programs that that sort of help farmers with retirement planning and you know you mentioned that there were some farmers who already had been planning to go out this spring. And what are you, what do you do under normal circumstances and what are you doing now to help farmers who may decide to leave the industry and retire just because they want to retire and do so with dignity and you know, money to support themselves in their later years. This is a little out of my knowledge area, given my short time with agar mark but you know I'll just mention quickly that all of our farmers have equity in our company so when they do retire. They get that equity back over time we have are very proud we've never had an issue where farmers have not received that equity back so there is that in place. There's still the challenges, you know, if you can't sell your animals and things along those lines that are going to make the exit very challenging. And I appreciate your comment about the beef market right now is also in the tank and so calling a herd is not really a viable financial option for a farmer who may want to go out so you're recommending sort of waiting to see if that market comes back or how what are you doing for those farmers who are trying to make that decision. I'm not making a recommendation. You know that's an individual business decision that we would not get involved with. But I'm suggesting that that could be a reason why we may not see an immediate a short term loss of farms it may be a little more dragged on because I would guess that some people are going to be looking at that and saying well you know what I can I'm looking on for a couple of more months and then perhaps be better situated when this all resolves and there is a market for for my animals. But that's just my personal personal take on it. Do you think there's any chance of working with your folks in Washington. You know the National Association and working with our delegation is there any chance of them opening the milk protection price pricing to sign up back up for is that gone forever. So I think our Congressional delegation understands the importance of you know reopening the dairy margin coverage program and making that retroactive under these extreme circumstances. There's certainly support by national milk and IDFA as well. So I think as an industry at large everyone is supportive of that. I'm hopeful that again with Secretary Purdue that that will be one of those immediate actions that he takes. And I think that's you know if there's a message right now that we have for congressional delegation and administration is that they've got to let the farmers know what decisions that they're going to you know it makes their decisions as quickly as possible so everyone can plan accordingly. I need to know is a dairy margin coverage program going to reopen. What is there going to be a direct payment. Are we are going to support the national milk IDFA proposal the sooner that those decisions can be made the better off our industry will be going forward. Yeah, and Diane I think. And he's weighed in on some of this. I believe is that accurate. Yes, this is Diane Boffel from agency of agriculture food markets. Yes, Secretary Tibbets along with the secretaries and commissioners in New England as well as Maryland, all requested for the dairy margin coverage program to be reopened and retroactive. We have been taking part in phone calls with Secretary Purdue and his quote was reopening the dairy margin coverage program would be like buying fire insurance after the barn had burned. He's not overly supportive it may have to be a congressional requirement in some form of legislation so he's getting the secretary Purdue is getting tremendous pressure to reopen our dairy margin coverage program and make it retroactive but that quote makes me think it's not top on his list to do unless Congress tells him to and currently that would have to take part in another stimulus bill or something of that nature down in DC and we know from any of the news outlets that that's not going very far right now. So that is what I know about reopening the dairy margin coverage program. Other questions for for our guests. Anthony. Yeah, I was saying I decided to sit silent during most of this conversation but I can't resist a couple things. One is that as bad as the USDA has been Secretary Purdue is right in the sense that it's a little too late it may be a little too late unless you can do these things retroactively which is difficult to imagine happening I wish it would. I just want to remind folks of two things. Last time we talked with I think it was Catherine about agri mark. I just need to remind people every time that agri mark is not a co op and you can look at the lawsuit that the farmers brought against agri mark to make that clear. It's just a technical little glitch but keep saying the co op this and co op that it's not a co op so I just want to point that out. These organizations including agri mark and others for years opposed supply management programs which if we had supported them, they'd be in place today we wouldn't have the need for milk dumping in these low prices because we believe we're just to the market more quickly. So this these groups of opposed supply management programs and pretended to be co ops when they're not so I just want to make that clear I can't can't resist. Well, of course, that's like, say we should have closed the barn door and the horse already out of the barn. Right, but we should we that's a point that's like my point is we should have closed the barn door before the horse set out. There are those with supply management programs that are also disposing of milk right now again this is a market phenomenon in terms of the loss of the demand for dairy overnight, if you will, and even if you had a supply management program would not avoid the situation of, again the disposal of milk at this point in time we would have to recalibrate and that's what this industry needs to do. As we go through 2020 is recalibrate in terms of, you know what is going to be the new demand for dairy in the US and globally and we're all going to need to make some adjustments to that. Yeah, if we had a program in place that would allow us to recalibrate and actually react promptly. This is Diane I think the reaction time is the tough part the shock has hit, and you know the loss of food service is a tremendous drop in demand. Once things reopened, how much of that comes back, nobody knows. And if we reacted right now to cut 10% of the dairy herd across the whole United States to come back in the line with that. If the milk need, if it comes back and the 10% comes back all at once, there wouldn't be enough milk there cows don't respond quickly enough, you can decrease quickly by slaughtering animals, but to ramp back up and have the milk increase quickly is not as easy so. I'm not proposing we decrease the number of farmers I'm talking about decreasing the volume that's produced. Correct, even if you reduce the number of cows, making that volume of milk reducing is easy, replacing it as hard is much slower. So that's the question when you have a shock. Even a supply management program can't keep up with a market shock. But when we lose these farmers that we're going to lose those and they're not going to be replaced. We can replace the farmers understood. I appreciate the dilemma you're in I just think it's frustrating to watch this happen over the years. So Leon, you mentioned in your first comment something about trying to, to keeps the farm make the farmers that have increased their production, pay for the oversupply and not burden farmers that have retained their production at a steady production level. Is there are you guys working on something like that. Well again I think you know prior to this I mean obviously it's the allocation of the additional costs and I think that was really kind of where we were going with the spring over spring program. And to really look at how should those costs across the cooperative be shared. And so I was really looking at it where there was the growth, and there was the additional balancing costs that those costs should be born on those additional pounds of milk that needed to be, you know, maybe marketed under different conditions. So that's where that is so now, now we're having to tweak it differently and say now we're looking at we have too much milk. So the next step is not just the growth, you know that a farmer might have year over year, if the whole organization has to reduce its production whether it's, you know, 10% 15% you know how do we go about going to that process and looking at what's the most equitable way to do that. Yeah. I could chime in I think we also need to think about, you know we're hearing, I've heard at least one semi local farm having some issues with an outbreak, potentially of COVID-19 on their farms and the issues that that may have for their entire entire labor source. That's a rumor at this point in time but I just bring that up only because that could be a reality for us. We could have a supply situation in the opposite. So I think my personal opinion is when we look at managing the supply right now, we need to probably be looking at it from an incentive perspective, and not at putting a cap because we don't know what you know this is a demand shock that we're dealing with and we don't know what our situation is going to be a week from now even never mind a few few months from now. So it's a very fluid situation that I think if we can have it be a little less rigid than some of the proposals that are coming that we were more incentive based it would be more helpful. Is there anything that we as your local, you know, senators can do to assist, assist in any way. We're going moving forward. Yeah, besides the routine stuff like pushing our congressional delegation and, and, you know, trying to get them to get something done in DC. I haven't talked about, because our finances here in Vermont are in shambles of course and once we get a little bit of a handle on our federal money coming and where that's going. We might end up with a little bit left over that we might be able to head in, in the ag direction but with the medical system being in disarray and, and the colleges all being messed up in there. Well, the regular, you know, K to 12 schools and people not working is our tax situation is looking bleaker every day. But is there anything that you can think of that we might be able to help with it all. Just drink more milk, eat more cheese. So that's a great start I think that's one of the things we're trying to do with some of our partners is to encourage them to use, you know, more cheese, you know, other dairy products and what they're producing if we could put more cheese on every pizza that would be helpful. You know, obviously, you know our organization and others are working with the food banks, you know, as well and I think that's another piece in terms of what are all the different avenues that we can get dairy products back out into those that that need product. We've been really working with the agency of ag and also just keeping everybody apprised if you're seeing signs at the retail level, you know, limiting purchases of dairy dairy products trying to again, you know avail themselves everything that there is available to again stop these grocery stores and retail outlets with with dairy I think they've been you know the other piece of that. I think the challenge it might be again out knowing you know there may be some farmers that may have some challenges if they're, or we need them to again receive more milk back on the farm I don't know how that's going to impact their nutrient management plans. So that could be a challenge not knowing you know what the months ahead look like. But so in any case I think we got to continue to keep dairy and ag in the forefront as we go forward. And you know just like the committee may may have picked up on this but I think it was last Friday's meeting maybe that we had as a full Senate. There was three or four senators that said they'd been to the grocery store and they wanted to know where the cabinet cheese was because there wasn't any in the stores have have you folks Catherine had trouble getting your distributors to get the cheese out and products to market. Well it's been flying off the shelves. It really has been. And you know we we've had in in our efforts to address the situation we've done things like change the products that were were making you know just focusing on our core ones. And you know our retail partners they just if they don't have our specialty, you know whatever it is bacon cheddar, whatever, you know so long as they have something on their shelves they're they're they're pretty happy. So we're continuing to pump out as much as possible as I said we've increased our you know the kind of product or our facilities in an effort to do this. We are changing up some of our transportation to make sure that trucks are continuing to not full getting shipments to the stores as much as possible but certainly I mean we're just the consumer behavior out there is so different than it's ever been. You know the hoarding mentality as we're talking about is making it a challenge to keep those stores stocked but we're doing the Darnest and we'll continue to work hard on that. Well, thank you are there any other questions for Catherine or Leon. Senator star you had a question about one of your one of your you had about milk as a fertilizer. Do you want me to address that or are you happy enough with what you've heard. Well, I don't know Catherine and Leon are the ones that you know if they're going to have to dump milk, maybe we could use it as a, you know as a supplement to the corn crop or something to rather than putting it in the manure pit might be able to cut down on farmers overall cost of commercial fertilizer. We're requesting if milk is going into the manure pit that are we have a recommendation up on our website that a sample of that manure be taken prior to spreading that manure, and then they can get a new new analysis of what that milk is added to that manure pit. Currently we're not recommending direct spreading on land and I don't believe anybody has requested that at this point. We're not recommending soils are pretty wet right now with all the rain we've had we're trying to help people understand their manure spreading as well right now. It's really wet watching the weather forecast closely etc. So we're in it's a bit early, it's starting to happen but it's a bit early for tilling the soil and there are concerns around milk going directly that it be tilled in because of an potential odor issue. Like one thing milk smells something different, or even milk and manure together can be pretty potent so trying to make sure people are able to till that in. So we haven't had anybody request direct application. We've already talked to an hour about any permitting requirements if anybody was going to direct spread milk, and they would rather it go in the manure pit as well so that's what if milk has been dumped. That's what we're doing at this point, two other points we gained four farms from the beginning of March to the beginning of April we have some farms dairy cow farms we have some farms that come back from a period of dry off their seasonal that would be occurring for those plus four, and we are going out with more information around the farm first program farm viability UVM extension and the ag mediation service for farmers for those questions Ruth around what do I do. Do I stand I get out. Major stress levels, all those kind of things so we're pushing those resources out as well. And this afternoon we're meeting with agri mark and St. Albans HP hood Stoney field and the food bank to talk about how if there are going to be diverted loads how we can make that into a product that the food bank how much can they handle how much can they distribute. All those questions so that getting everybody in one place to really start hammering out those details will start this afternoon. Well it sounds that sounds good Diane and what about the yogurt plan out of rattle borough are they going to be in on that discussion this afternoon. No, not at this point. We started working with the folks that had approached us first and are willing. We approached the Commonwealth yogurt. Two years ago when we thought we're going to have excess milk around the holidays, and they had plans for their workforce to be off at that point as well so they weren't interested. If this becomes, I think the first big question is what can the food bank handle, because a tractor trailer load of milk makes an awful lot of cups of yogurt. So we need to figure out how much they can handle first and as as Leon and Catherine are speaking about how much milk is going to be available that doesn't have some other type of home. And what can we get figured out so if, if there's going to be a demand we'll try to move it around to other processing facilities, besides the ones that have come forward first with interest. So we'll go from there. I think the positive PR that all the players would get up from something like this happening would be super good. It'd be a lot better than, you know, agro mark donates to tanker loads of milk or saying DFA, then dumping two loads of milk to the food bank. So things like that would would really go a long ways amongst policymakers and constituents. So good luck to you on that. And let's hope we can keep our, our farmers somewhat healthy and safe from the virus, but financially, hopefully we can keep them on the right side of the ledger. So if there are no other questions from committee members like to thank both Catherine and Leon for spending your time with us this morning. We appreciate it very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much and I appreciate you all being willing to help us as we all manage our way through this uncertain time so everyone stay safe. Thank you. Yeah. We've got a few minutes left committee that I don't carry is gotten on the line yet. There he is. God you fill that whole screen up carry. I can do better. We, we wondered talking with you on the municipal solid waste stuff. If there's been any headway made on that and, and testing of the fields are going to be testing fields. We have concerns about, about the loss of these farmlands that were this stuff being spread on them about, you know, not being worth anything. So, where are we on that particular issue here. So, nothing's really changed. Since the last time we talked but I guess I didn't. I wasn't clear enough about everything we've been doing with DC. DC has gone around and tested soil in groundwater in, in a sort of randomized pattern of everywhere that gets land applications. What are they testing for carry the PFOA PFOS compounds. Both the, the five regulated compounds as well as other chemistry in the same class. So it's a wide variety then. Yes. And what we're seeing is that, you know, some the soils are are are an issue but what the real driver is going to be with this contamination is the groundwater. We've got serious concerns about the groundwater. And around these fields. The farms that use that water but most of the farms are on municipal water supplies. Or their wells are further away from the fields. Have you tested any, any crops that have been grown on those fields to see if, if it shows up in the crops. So we haven't, we did have a long discussion about doing that last fall. But it's a corn silage is not homogenous. And when we're sort of even testing for aflatoxins and parts per billion. We would have had to have a 10 pound sample that we have to completely dry and grind and take an aliquot of when we're looking at parts for in parts per trillion, something as on homogenous as silage. We didn't think having a number there would give us any indication about whether that feed was good or not. We would have had to take basically hundreds of samples to get a good reading off a off a silage corn lot. That said we did use the values for silage corn that were developed in Maine to make a determination that Maine has developed a model that didn't test the silage corn in the middle. And as much as the milk at the end so they had a value a soil value that would lead to a milk value, and they do have enough data to they did have enough data to generate crop uptake coefficients, they're fairly conservative. Based on the modeling, and we did use those equations to make determinations about what to test or how to mitigate the problem. So, where are you guys moving forward with or with DC or to do more testing this this year. Is that where we are. So, yeah, basically, both agencies are in agreement that more regulation is needed over this practice. And we haven't really come to any decision points about what those mitigation steps might be. But indeed we need to be looking at what's being put on the land, as well as what's already there. Well, yeah, I think that's very important. I know I don't Chris have you talked with with Bray or any of those guys about if they're what they're doing with with the I think they have a bill in their room or they've at least talked about about this. Michael's here. So Michael view. Do you know anything about that issue. They have taken testimony from from a and R. I don't believe they both the House and the Senate have and from Carrie I think in least in one of those committees. And I am not sure if they've developed. What they want to do going forward. I have to speak with with Chris and I mean, you do both committee, you know, House and Senate and again, natural so we can work on that together, I guess. Yeah. Were there other questions for Carrie. Everybody's good. Michael, do you have anything that you want to bring up to the committee at all or Actually, I do have a question for Carrie just just occurred to me. Mr. Chair. Yeah, Carrie, our seed bill or hemp seed bill probably didn't make it across the finish line at this point. I believe it did. Yeah. Yeah, we house ag. Yeah, but I assume they haven't been able to act on it yet. They have I believe they actually voted on a committee. It's it's on. I think notice calendar. Yeah, I think it's on the outside, but it, you know, we haven't gotten to where we can deal with these issues yet, you know, either either side we we got to get fixed if we can. Senator Pearson, I did propose some language that would have fit nicely with the chicken and compost bill to deal with any waste going to a farm. Michael greedy has that language if you would like to look at it or I can send it to you directly. Mike cleaned it up very nicely for us. And what it does is allow us to register anything that's being applied to ag land as a soil amendment, and that whatever that soil amendment is be not adulterated and adulteration is any deleterious component material whether it be heavy metals PFOA compounds or whatever comes down the pike next. And that just a proposal how I believe we could deal with this issue. But I don't know if you're going to be able to get adequate testimony on that this year. Well, and then back to the hemp seed I assume. I'm curious if we've heard if this issue is surfacing people hemp farmers are surely getting seeds in now and getting ready to go so if you can just help us keep an eye on this. I will. Thanks. Any, any other questions. Michael. I just want to clarify the seed bill is still in house ag committee. They've got it all teed up to go. But they haven't voted it out yet because they they haven't really. They haven't mastered remote voting it. So, so they're ready, but they haven't actually voted it out. You haven't, you haven't shown them how they could vote remotely yet Michael. Well they only got their training last week on it so. Because we could, we could give you a demonstration, how we could vote remotely. So they make a motion to adjourn and we'll show you how that work to let me record the roll call. Well, there isn't anything else. We'll, we'll pay attention to the press conference tomorrow. And we'll move forward from that point. If things don't go well, we'll, we'll address that issue again shortly early next week. So if there isn't anything else, thank you all very much. I just like, I hope next time we can talk about farm workers and I sent an email around Senator Hardy's been been banging on this one to we've got to at least explore. So we understand what's going on for workers on our farms, many of whom are undocumented and are having therefore completely exempted from every piece of assistance that come down. We can spend time on that. I know for what it's for what it's worth we actually heard about that and give ups also so it is an important issue that we talked about this committee. I read in one of the publications that if you were resident doesn't say anything about where you're from if you're a resident of the state that you could receive. That $600, you know, stop. No, I don't, I don't think so I did bring this up with Deputy Secretary Eastman. This very question about whether or not farm workers who are not us citizens whether or not they're documented but what just that they aren't us citizens if they qualify for any of the federal programs. She said she would talk to the federal delegation or her connections with the feds about it. But that to her knowledge, they weren't eligible but I don't want to speak for her so we should have her back to talk about this issue but I don't think that they are eligible, regardless of their immigrant status. Well, of course they aren't they aren't receiving unemployment though because they're already employed right. If they're if they're still working and getting and getting paid then they wouldn't be getting unemployment but I think there was a concern of if they did come come down with coven and had to stop working, they wouldn't be getting any benefits they wouldn't qualify for the unemployment that other people would that that citizens do, and they may not have the supports, they probably wouldn't have the supports, certainly that that American citizens have yet they are working in our state, they're paying taxes to, you know the state and feds and so there's a concern that they're just not getting taken care of at the same level as other workers in our state. One, one thing we want to make darn sure of, you know, we were talking at our last general meeting that we were going to do money for essential workers. You know, and how it wasn't a cheap issue that was going to cost us a lot of money as a state but we, we all felt that, you know, the essential workers should be. I think I just fell off. I was a little bit tipped over it wasn't me fall. We want to make sure that why don't we make sure try to make sure that farmers get included in that list of people they're going to get the extra money. I guess there's a lot to discuss and I hope we can put it on on an agenda have really sus through the issues because there are several issues there. Yeah, well we'll, we'll make sure that's on the next trip around. Thank you. Any, anything else. Yeah, well, thank you all again. And I think we're back on tomorrow morning as a Senate at Ken 30 maybe so it'll be a caucus I think not a full session. Oh, they've already decided. Well I thought when we left that's what Jim said. Yeah. I think he was going to let us know for sure he needed to check in with God and Senate finance about whether their bills would be ready. He wasn't he was going to let us know by the end of the day. Okay, one way or another work together. Brian. We have a one o'clock committee meeting today. Yes. I didn't see I didn't see an invite for us. Thank you. Thanks guy and thanks Michael and Linda for all your hard work. It's still a bummer but we'll get through it. Take care.