 So I guess we can start. So good morning, everyone. And thank you for being present here today for Entrepreneur India's Resilience Series. Today we are going to talk about a very interesting space, a space that has intrigued a lot of us. The India-made social media apps, which has seen a meteoric rise of late. I'm Saurav Kumar, editor of special projects of Entrepreneur India, the moderator for this session. Before we start, for the attendees, I would want to let you know that discussion will go on for 45 minutes, and this will be followed by Q&A session for 15 minutes. If you have any questions during the course of the discussion, you can post it to the Q&A option. And if you're live on Facebook, you can leave your question in the comment section. We'll take up the question, post the discussion. And if it is directed towards anyone, any specific panelist, please mention that so we can direct it to that panelist. I will now introduce our panelists for the day. We have with us Mr. Sivank Agarwal, founder and CEO of Metro, Mr. Sunil Jain, founder of Sprout Capital, Mr. Tomit Ghosh, co-founder of Chingari, Mr. Phulkit Agarwal, co-founder of Threl, and Mr. Siddharth, five-founding partner T14 Capital. Welcome, everyone. So it's very interesting. So the world's second largest smartphone market and 200 million users of one particular Chinese app, that was what suddenly became available towards the end of last month when the Indian government banned the 59 Chinese apps. And the users rushed to India-made platforms to continue showcasing their creativity. So going by some of the accounts, I have heard that app providers actually struggled to cope with the influx. So how is it initially, and has it settled or continues to be an ongoing thing? So I'll come to Sumit you first and start with you. So if you can just explain how was it when it all started and has it really settled down by now? Sure. So I think the ban came on the evening of 28th and the next two days were like really, really crazy. I mean, the whole team, our whole team at Chingari, we went up for next 48 hours, trying to scale our backend infrastructure, trying to optimize everything. And at the peak of this ban, I think at the peak of the influx, 600,000 users were trying to onboard every hour. So yeah, I mean, it was crazy and also amazing and also really stressful at the same time. I mean, things have cooled down now. I mean, right now we are stable, we have a million fresh downloads every day. But yeah, I mean, it's much, much, much more cooler and stable than the first 72 hours now. And that's the situation. Okay, yeah, I remember you posting, you know, everyone posting on Twitter that how much, but good, good, good stuff, I would believe. Shivank, if I can come to you, how was your experience with all this? I mean, the experience is definitely very fantastic. But the good thing was, I mean, we lost on the 11th of April. That was when TikTok was already in the market. And at that time we see unprecedented growth at that time as well. So fortunately, we were able to scale up the backend during the period. And as far as scaling is concerned, that was not in the concern during the ban, but definitely what we saw is five times the scale that we were seeing a day before. So in that sense, definitely now user, gathering users is not a big challenge. And now focus should be like, giving them the best experience for the customers. Fulkit, how about you? And, you know, there were some issues that I was hearing about buffering of videos and all, was it because of the unpreparedness of the servers or something or has it been taken care of by now? Yeah, absolutely. So I think first of all, thanks Aura for inviting all of us on the Common Forum. To talk about, well, we are a lifestyle social network. We are essentially focusing on meaningful content of, you know, Indians in three minute video format. So we are initially and even now are differentiated from the TikToks or the other Chinese apps that we have seen. Now, talking about the growth, yes, we definitely didn't expect that this kind of 10x growth we'll get in a matter of like seven days. So definitely the systems got overloaded. But within the first 48 hours, we had essentially fixed it, upgraded our systems. And I think we have one of the most major, you know, experience right now in the industry. And right now, I think there are hardly any, you know, kind of user experience issues that we are facing with our users. So, yep, all of that has been kind of taken care of and some exciting growth for us as well as the other apps in the ecosystem. So if you don't submit to Sivank Fulkit, would you agree that it was just a stroke of luck of being there at the right place at the right time? Or was it actually, you know, your products were there and they were shaping up but the, you know, ban acted as a catalyst for the situation and it's kind of for you. So if I can ask you. Yeah, I mean, so nobody expected that this ban will occur or nobody was building their business or building their product because they were thinking that this ban would come and we'll grow. I mean, we were having an organic growth before the ban. In fact, I mean, the whole month of June and before the day of the ban, we were at 3.5 million downloads. And in fact, a day before, Anil Menjaza had tweeted about Chingari that I have not downloaded it, but I have downloaded Chingari. So, I mean, we had our organic roadmap of growth, but I mean, and this ban, of course, came as a sudden shock to the whole industry. And of course, that led to the rhetoric rise of the downloads and everything. So, I mean, I think all of us had our own charts and own strategies of growth pre-ban. And now post-ban, obviously, we will have to tweak it, be more aggressive, hungry because there is a land grab out there. So, yeah, I mean, so there was obviously a pre-ban strategy and now I think all of us will have a post-ban strategy in terms of growth scale attention. So, I have seen that you guys have started hiring big time. So, is that also a part of the strategy, Shivad? I mean, definitely we want to make a leading company of India. You want the best, you know, mines. And I think a company is not run by two people. So, it has to be good guys in their own respective areas. And definitely in the engineering and product we always focus a lot. So, in that sense, we are building a strong team at engineering. All right. So, you know, Shivad, I'll come to you and ask you this question that what now? I mean, yes, there is a ban and we have, you know, these many users are there. So, you know, what happens next? I mean, definitely there are going to be competition as we were discussing that, you know, there is a geo for Microsoft, Google, Facebook combined together, sitting somewhere. And then we have, you know, players like Shingad, Yutl, Rapposh, Ro and everyone. So, what happens now? How do you see this ban? Honestly, so the short answer is your guess is actually as good as mine. I don't think in the entire history of Indian startups as you know, we haven't actually come across a situation where the market, where the market has been mature to a very, very large extent. There's been the level of education and level of access that are required by the broader markets already been done by people, that's already been done. And now essentially it's just the products and the services that need to be built out on this as of now. So, in India, see the India story has always held a particular love for a number of investors, but the story still needed a little more time to sort of mature. The reason, the two greatest triggers of maturation of the Indian startup of India as the entire country entering into this new ages, number one, the cost of the data has actually come down to a very large extent. This is completely thanks to what the geo effect of what geo has been doing over the past three to four years. Simultaneously with this, the ability and the hardware to access all this has actually come in also. Thanks to the number of Chinese phones and number of smaller phones. And now with KaiOS and the geo phone, everyone actually has access to this entire part. And as India started, and even the learning or the initial tutelage of transactions has already been done to a very large extent by a large number of companies, of all the companies, hyper-local companies and news companies, now the content is shows media companies and all that. So India as a whole as of now has reached a certain level of maturity, where in most of the populace it has access to all these particular apps. Most of the populace is comfortable using this. And, but what's important to note here is they're actually comfortable using this from a either from a Chinese perspective through TikTok, through VChat, et cetera, or from an American perspective through Facebook, through WhatsApp, Instagram, Twitter, et cetera, et cetera. The important thing as of now from what I actually see going forward is which are the entrepreneurs and which are the companies that are actually going to create an India first experience. It's an experience created by Indians or Indians in India. They've had too many cases where people have actually have headquarters, have the headquarters either in the US or Singapore and then they're trying to sort of figure out the Indian mindset and do it. Right about now, they're seeing a new generation of entrepreneurs coming led by Shivam, Pai Sumit, by Pulkit and a number of them who are actually creating their apps and everything in India. So getting, and what Arman Nebar Bahar as well as a Chinese, as well as a ban on Chinese apps is actually done. It sort of accelerated all their road maps and everything and helped them actually get a large number of users. But the defining factor for all these companies and the way I see this entire thing playing forward is that whoever can come up with the best strategies to actually retain all these particular users, make sure they're actively engaged in the platform and start creating and catering to their needs. Which is uniquely Indian. These are the people who are actually gonna survive this out and their ability and their ability to navigate these particular waters is gonna be especially important because Facebook now, as you said, the geo entire combined, WhatsApp is gonna get a huge leg up with regard to that. Instagram is only part of the Facebook network. They've already launched a similar app in India that's actually catering to the Indian audience or so they believe and they have the backbone of geo to actually run that. And simultaneously the ban on the Chinese apps, I think all of us are mature enough to understand there's not gonna be a permanent ban after all, in the span of the next six months, nine months, 12 months or 18 months or whatever period when they actually come back, they're gonna come back with a big bang. So it's during this particular short, interim period as a geo combined is slowly, geo Facebook combined is slowly finding its heels and getting regulatory approvals and the Chinese apps will haven't come in. This is the golden hour or the golden opportunity for Indian apps to actually create. So the investments into people, the investments into technology and understanding Indian behavior. Very few people have actually been able to crack the Indian behavioral mindset and the way they actually interact with these particular apps. I think which of the founders on this who can actually crack that particular part, they in turn can actually have the ability to attract a large amount of capital and build a formidable mode. So it's not gonna be the only the Chinese is no longer the question is gonna be a dichotomy of is it the US enabled ecosystem or the Chinese enabled ecosystem? We're gonna see the rise of an Indian enabled ecosystem and I'm confident of the fact that the people on this call are gonna be the people who are actually gonna bring that to fruition as well. Right, right. So we'll come in to you as a backup that it's going to be these Indian entrepreneurs who are going to make it happen and it's a golden hour as he said. So what would you really want to see happening during this golden period that this window that we have? And where would you put your money right now? So sort of if you look at the India internet or digital thing, there are more 400 million the next 400 million users, which are mostly lingual, right? And this opportunity which is being provided by both Arten and Burr, Chinese app ban, I think people have to, or the startups have to, utilize this as an opportunity to create differentiation or create a base in the next 400 million users. That's one space where a lot of the multinational has still not been able to penetrate deeper. There is, and that's probably one of the reasons why if you look at China, China is also, while it's largely a Mandarin speaking country, but there are diverse cities within China itself, right? And that's one of the reasons, I mean with an aid on the internet regulatory practice in China, a lot of companies have been able to create massive scale there, but it's also a market where you see different kinds of players existing. For example, Redbook, it's a niche social media play in China. So I think for all these startups, there is a window of opportunity available here to double down on their user engagement. And the metric is how much time of engagement can you garner from them. And average Indian today is spending about 20 hours of his time on a social media. Neither of the social media has what wallet share of that can you garner to how deeper can you build your proximity in the next 400 million users. And that's where you can probably create a differentiation in the larger whole frame. Of course, a lot of these international players will come back with the bank and with more dollars than what some of these startups currently have. But to battle them out, I think you will have to create a solid differentiation. And I believe that those two differentiations can come from one user engagement which could be matured by the time of wallet share of an individual. And the second one is how can you differentiate and create a larger base in the next 400 million users. And for that, maybe you'll have to go multi-lingual, you'll have to figure out strategies to build engagement levels there. And probably build key opinion leaders if you want to look at a larger monetization strategy in the future from different multi-lingual. Yeah, definitely. You know, differentiation is, I think I believe is one key factor here that I also believe. So I'll come to the entrepreneurs here and you know, people can start with you. So what is the strategy going ahead from here for you? And how are you going to differentiate yourself from, you know, I mean, yes, of course, you're talking about the Roposo-Chengali trend later, but there are even really smaller ones also, which are, you know, I see every day some or the other. So what's going to be your plan from here on? Sure, so I think first of all, Saurav will keep focusing on what we have been doing for the last two and a half years. So regardless of Chinese app ban, in the last one year we had grown 25X with more than, you know, 20 million downloads. And after this Chinese app ban, it has just got doubled, right? So it has just fueled up for us. Let's first try to understand what trail is and how we're already differentiated in the market. So we are not a like 30 second short video app where people come in front of camera and do lip syncing, dance, or music. We are typically a, you know, lifestyle video app where people essentially come and talk about meaningful content around their passion and interest like, you know, recipes, beauty, fashion, you know, movie and TV reviews, et cetera, et cetera. So if you see, we are a modern age replacement for the long textual blogs that used to exist on the internet, but for the Indians, in order to express their stories about all of these passion and the interest, they need a new age format to be able to do that. And that is where we have, you know, brought down the entry barrier to blogging and blogging for people, and which is what we stand for in the ecosystem. So our aim would be to continue focusing on that and be able to provide a meaningful content to the Indians in their own language and establish some really key differentiations in terms of content, in terms of the persona of a content creator and be able to, you know, double tap on that over a future period of time. So it's coming to you. What would be the strategy? Especially if someone talks about the monetization part. So how are we going to, you know, have you thought about it? I think before monetization, let's talk. I think some of that's part of the solution. So, Sriman, if I use, if you can, you know, tell me about your strategy going at the time for the part. In terms of monetization or in general? Yeah, I mean, general, your strategy is from, you know, if he talks about differentiations, you know, it's what the key is going to be because there are going to be a lot of players looking for the, you know, share of the pie that is available. The Indian market is huge, definitely. But, you know, everyone will be looking for their share of the pie. So how are you going to, you know, offer it there? So yeah, I mean, all the panelists clearly understand that the likes of TikTok is going to come. So definitely following them blindly won't work in the long run. So that's for sure. And that's the reason we have been there before the TikTok ban. And because we knew that TikTok will be there, we have to be, you know, creating a separate space for us. Definitely TikTok has done very good. In one segment, there's a light humor videos, mobile videos. So definitely they've done a lot of innovation, mobile videos, plus they have brought one category that is lip-syncing and, you know, light humor. So can we take that to any video? Can we make it YouTube or mobile? Right? So for example, likes of Netflix or YouTube has been pre-mobile era. They has been, you know, when mobile was not there and they were more aligned for television, sorry, laptop or, you know, PC news. They've been more on the landscape mode. They've been longer, they've been heavy. But we feel that they, I mean, these, you know, products have skipped the mobile era and directly jammed the television era, right? Can we create a whole system for mobile videos which is not limited to any category, right? For example, with the recent popularity of, I mean, Mitro, what we have seen, you know, people of, you know, age group like 40 or 45, plus they have started using the application. But they find in these likes of the application, the content is not best suited for their needs. So can we bring the content for these category of the users? So definitely a lot of scope in making, you know, the application, I mean, Mitro is a defective application for mobile videos, not just a single category. Okay. So Mitro, you can continue. I mean, you've got dropped off. So yeah, so you're starting from here on and then maybe if you can talk about the monetization part as well. I don't know, like, what part make, I dropped off. So what part of the content? Yeah, you can start from the beginning because you dropped off, of course, yeah. So yeah, I mean, I was just starting and I think I actually dropped off. So I apologize for that. So yeah, I mean, before talking about monetization, I would like to talk about, you know, the key differentiation in terms of tech that, you know, I think that would be a part of strategy of every player. So at Singari, we are really, really focused at, you know, very deeply in terms of tech. So who builds, and you're trying to build, you know, build the first and very deep personalized recommendation model in terms of who is able to figure out the taste of 400 million, you know, or 500 million Indians in terms of short video. So if you see By Dance or TikTok did this really, really well, so once you were on the platform, you got really hooked to it in terms of, you scroll a video and then the next video comes and you know, the platform was able to really predict and personalize your taste. And I think that is something which will be a key differentiator in terms of product and engineering. And yeah, I mean, monetization-wise, we are working with brands and we have, I mean, we are trying to get influencers in the platform. And then the idea is to get, you know, get them to work with brands and do some sort of contests or hashtag challenges with, you know, the goal is to do very deep content-focused, you know, the experiences in the product without disrupting user experience. So it could be a filter, you know, a brand filter that the user will get to create content on top of it or it could be like hashtag challenges where brands come up with some unique hashtags and the content creators create content on it and the brands pay money via the platform to the influencers. A lot of innovation around these things is what we are working on at the moment. Okay, all right. So, you know, before we move to the other question, I would again request our attendees to, you know, keep putting their questions, we'll take them up once we are through with this discussion. So, you know, one of the observations regarding the TikTok style of video was, you know, a lot of people found it very cringe-worthy and you know, of course it was hugely, hugely popular and there were very good people who were showcasing their talent, but for some, maybe we can call them very few, but there was, so how do we take care of that? I mean, is there a way to, you know, counter that argument or counter that thing, you know, Pulkit, Shivank, anyone? Sure. So, sort of, you're very correct. I think Chinese come with an ideology wherein they're very aggressive about, you know, some of the content that they really allowed on their platform. The reason is that they have seen similar kind of scale happening in China and they kind of got into controversies over there and that was the growth story for them in China as well. They try to replicate the same playbook here in India by creating controversies or enabling the talk of the town by having such kind of content which are talking about. I think it's a responsibility and essentially the ideology of a founder and the founding team behind the network to essentially figure out what they really stand for. So, at Trail, we don't have essentially any sorts of change content or any sorts of, you know, NSFW content onto the platform. We have made sure that the content is super clean. It stands by the values. It's something which imparts some sort of, you know, take away to a user when they're consuming those videos over a period of time. So, I believe it's fairly in the hands of the founders to really, you know, kind of make those systems, those technologies and those mechanisms which can ensure that you have more responsible entertainment and content consumption on their platform. That is the first part. Second part, I think, you know, when you talk about from the content creators perspective, right, so I'm sure like most of us have heard about this controversy of YouTube versus TikTok, right? Where in a lot of YouTubers came on, you know, the cameras and they started roasting a lot of TikTok content creators. If you empathize with these content creators at TikTok, they don't want to replicate the same journey now on any other platform, right? So, if you talk to these TikTok creators, they're like, I've got, you know, millions of followership, I'm done with that, right? Now, if I'm starting on a new platform like Trail or Chingari or a Mitro, I want to essentially have something which is a very differentiated persona from what I had on, you know, TikTok because they don't want to be called themselves a cringe-worthy content creator. They want to be called as, you know, the opinion leaders. They want to be called as somebody whom people could look up to or aspire up to. So, I think the sentiment in the content creators economy has also changed. They are looking for more responsible ways of creating content, you know, I think they're slowly getting away from, you know, that one night, you know, you know, fame and then getting lost, right, in nowhere. So, I think, you know, all of these entrepreneurs who are building for Bharat have a golden opportunity to really think about it deeply and enable that side of these content creators onto their platform. So that, will you have an opinion on this? About the kind of content that, you know, we saw on TikTok and maybe, because TikTok from very early has been in controversy, it got banned, you know, stopped once earlier also. And, you know, it was because of, I don't know, maybe the lack of, you know, monitoring of content or something. So, is that something you would want to see when these Indian apps come up? That's a bit, definitely. See, I think the first thing, one of the reasons why India also wants to sort of inculcate and facilitate the growth of homegrown players is the fact that they're attuned to the laws of the land and they understand the sensitivities of the Indian barbers. Some of the companies who have actually come in from abroad, for example, for TikTok, sort of fostered this very polarizing content. It's either been not safe for work, it's been very aligned. It's actually maligning a number of people or a number of sections of society. You've seen all this sort of stuff happen over there and it has actually become an entire problem. Now, what everyone sort of realized now is, look, it's not these sort of platforms that need to express yourselves on these particular platforms will actually remain. It's a curation aspect that's actually gonna become an important differentiator for everyone. So for all the entrepreneurs who are on this call and everyone actually doing this, they also need to understand that the way YouTube has set up these boundaries and principles very early on. It wasn't like the Wild Wild West and they had those particular core principles that they won't allow this sort of content, they won't allow this sort of maligning activities to actually happen, this sort of slandering to actually go through. That's actually gonna become a core thesis of all these companies going forward. Along with this, an important question that everyone has tackled as of now, it's actually gonna be with regard to data security and privacy and data sovereignty. India's had the personal data protection bill for quite some time as it's gone through, it's actually gone to a subcommittee, it's gone to a standing committee, they're actually reviewing that as well. Numerous people have actually written opinion blogs and posts on this entire aspect also. So it's gonna be important for these people to be attuned to the cultural sensitivities of the Indian people, as well as the needs of the Indian government with regard to these particular aspects as well. And balancing that final nine will actually give them a lot more credence with the government, with the regulators, with the Indian consumers and all as well. A number of people have already spoken about the fact that all their data is going to reside on Indian servers, it's not gonna be on a server, either in Singapore or any other such job reviews also. When it comes to any data protection or privacy, all the laws of India, even the bill that's actually come out as well and the Sri Krishna commission on it, they are actually gonna be attuned to that also. Another aspect that we've also hit the head on the nail is what is the degree of duration? So TikTok, according to me, was like the wild west, it was the 0.1 version of what India's aspiration is to actually remain on the platforms like this. So amongst also spoken about the fact that the TikTok format or the standing video format or the phone format, where you can see people are used to watching videos like this and now prefer to watch it like this. That need is not going to go away. There are people who are 45 and plus who are also doing the same thing. Sumit has also spoken about the fact that about how they are creating the technology to sort of curate all this content as well. That level of curation is going to be essential for them as they go forward. And along with this, if they can actually marry all these particular aspects into a more cohesive platform and be attuned to the laws of India, they can do it. And the ability to attract content creators, all the people from TikTok migrate them onto their particular platforms as of now and go through it. I think that somebody on the call also spoke about the fact that a number of Kulkita believes, spoke about the fact that YouTubers started roasting TikTok stars for a very long period of time. It was actually about five to 10 years ago where people, the normal media stars were actually roasting the YouTubers on the exact same thing. So the entire cycle actually continues. So there means the audience already exists. The content creators and everyone already does exist over there as well. Everyone's already familiar with the entire content. How do you actually master these people onto your platform while balancing the fine line of data sovereignty, data protection and curation? It's going to be, it's a multivariate optimization problem that all these founders are actually going to be grappling with as of now. And the way they actually fine tune this while catering to the needs of their users and differentiating themselves from everyone else is actually coming on board. That is going to be the, that's going to be the key differentiator for these companies. And that's what's going to actually give them the ammo and the ability to actually combat the geofacebook combined as well as the, as well as when the Chinese apps and all actually come back. Yeah, definitely. I mean, data protection is, you know, something that we've been talking about for a long, long time to do the localization. And that has been a key contention for a lot of like WhatsApp has not been able to roll out its, you know, payment platform yet and now, you know, till we believe that what they say is correct and true. So Sunil, I'll come to you and, you know, continue on the same, the same, that, you know, right now, of course, you know, it's more about who takes the larger pie in terms of, so what do you, in terms of content, what would you really want to see, you know, the Indian app makers to make it, you know, something that everyone can watch, you know, sometimes at times the content of, you know, suddenly I'll give you an example in elderly at my home, you know, browsing through, you know, you know, a certain Facebook or somewhere and some video pops up. That's not very likely. So, you know, do you think we need to really invest in deep technologies, deep tech or something to make these really controlled how these are portrayed or serve to the people? So two things on it, you know, one, you know, as culturally as Indians, you know, they love controversy. So, you know, I mean, some of these apps also, you know, you would want to leverage that initially in the initial phase, you know, to probably garner some eyeballs. But I agree with you that at some stage, you know, I mean, and the two things which could happen. One, you know, eventually you will see a state where you have people of different age groups or you have, you know, I mean, and within a certain age group, I mean, when let's say between 20 and 40, you could still have, you know, micro groups which will, you know, leverage towards some platform. Two reasons for it. Again, you know, India is not a winner takes all market as I see it today. So, you know, there could be all of these founders, you know, targeting different subgroups within that. And, you know, a subgroup of 20 to 25 could be leveraging towards a different kind of content. Maybe a subgroup of 30 to 25 would be leveraging towards a lifestyle kind of a content. So, you know, there could be different genres which could appear as we move along. It's still early days in terms of adoption today. So, focus today will be, you know, to, you know, get the adoption right, you know, I mean, and that's what I believe all these founders would want to do is to get a decent enough base, engage them to a certain extent and engagement could be across multiple channels. To your point in terms of, you know, content, of course, I think once the differentiation policies of each of these founders is clear, they themselves will have to, you know, figure out how they want to control what kind of content they want to display on their platforms. Like, for example, you know, mentioned that they've stayed away from a certain kind of content right from beginning. The more leverage they started as a lifestyle app and they're probably leveraging towards that genre. So, I think that's something which will happen as we move in the ecosystem. There's, you know, it's still early days. I mean, we're talking about 20, 30 million download today after the Chinese app, right? Right, so there's all of them were, you know, probably sub 10 million kind of downloads compared this to, you know, an MNC app which came to India and more a Chinese app, you know, they were other apps also who came to India. But, you know, no one could create a 200 million kind of a user base. So I think the focus from a startup's perspective today is, you know, to have, you know, content which will give you eyeballs initially and at some stage, you know, as you start building your differentiation, which, you know, you need to start thinking today but you need to start building a differentiation strategy which will give you a certain pocket of that audience whom you can retain, engage and, you know, probably, you know, at a later stage, you can probably monetize on that. So, you know, before we move to the next question, I'll again request our viewers to keep their questions coming. We'll take them in another five minutes maybe. So, you know, Shivanka, I'll come to you and, you know, I was reading a report and I, you know, we said that the headline read like basic clones, you know, basically calling these Indian apps. So, you know, how do you react to that? I mean, how would you, how would you see that? I mean, I don't understand the word clone. So, I think no application which run in the market which you get user acceptance is definitely a clone because people will, if there is alternative, people will try that. So, for example, we compare Google Docs versus Microsoft Word. It's very simple to say one is a clone of the other but they've been working on different circumstances, different platforms, right? And there is a very different segment of the users. So, as long as we are doing that, I think we have, I mean, in the previous question, I've categorized that how we are differing from TikTok from being a single, single sector to a defective platform for videos. So, that that's the vision is not a clone. It's something beyond that. Okay, okay. Pulkit, how do you react to that? I think our team, our team laugh at, you know, calling a lot of platforms clones. I think it is, you know, honestly, the inability of a lot of people to really understand the intricacies of how social network work, right? It's a very nascent stage at which our ecosystem is. Technology startups have just, you know, got a lot of visibility recently and people are still adapting and trying to understand deeply how they're differentiated. So, I believe it is the, you know, the ecosystem from the reporting point of view will take some of the time to really understand the intricacies and be able to empathize and appreciate the differentiation that, you know, all of the entrepreneurs and their product are, you know, trying to position that. Second thing, I think even, let's say in worst cases, somebody wants to clone something and there's nothing bad with that. Like, you know, I know TikTok was not an original idea. We had the smash for the long time which was a lip-syncing app, right? So, I don't think like, you know, somebody saying cloning makes you a unicorn really a really a large, you know, company, right? It requires a lot of background work to really make sure that you grow very fast and you're able to capitalize on the market as well. So, I think, you know, I believe and I request all the reporters to support Indian startups rather than calling them clones and, you know, also demoralizing a lot of entrepreneurs who are trying to create differentiation in the market under the heavy circumstances of, you know, play that we are having with. So, that's my, you know, genuine and deep request to everybody. Yeah. Submit, how about you? I'm sure that your wealth also come across this time and I came across and I kind of laughed but then, you know, I thought I asked you very to respond to this. Sure. So, yeah, I mean, I've seen those headlines. In fact, a lot of times you have been called as alternative to TikTok and Indian alternative. I mean, and that is much more graceful, you know, graceful word to be called as an alternative to TikTok. But yeah, I mean, every, I think every product and every founding team will have, has its own way of looking at things. I mean, so I think how a reporter or the average audience looks at it, looks at it is, okay, it's making camera, this also has a creation tool. So, it is a clone. But, you know, what goes behind that in terms of tech and product and what are the algorithms that are being developed? And these are like very, very unique and intricate things. So, I mean, I think it will take some time for everyone to understand that and have a mature understanding of that. And I think over the, once that happens, the reporting will also improve and people will stop calling us alternatives or clones and we will have our own identity in terms of products. Trust me, you all already have Mr. Mahindra that looked it about you and others have been talking about the other. So, there's no doubt that there is uniqueness. Yes, the differentiation has to come, which I believe will people, once they start using and looking at it, I mean, a lot of people maybe who are making the comments have not even looked at the apps maybe. So, let's put to rest, we'll put to rest that session. Siddharth Sunil, I'll come to you before we, for one question and then we'll start taking questions. You know, yes, definitely for people on my left side of my screen are Sivan Fultip and so they have to do a lot of things within this golden period. But what about the investor community and the government that needs to be done in terms of what you were mentioning, the playbook, the India playbook, what should that be right now as you guys mentioned that very less capital comes from Indian investors for, you know, these things. So, is that going to change or is there a possibility that, you know, that we'll be taking care of? So, we have, so all of us are hopeful for it. The Indian startup ecosystem has always been where in the entrepreneurs have essentially led the entire charge and the Indian investor, the Indian investors and the Indian investing class have shown a steady reluctance to actually support them monetarily. A number of people go online, they tweet, they retweet, they pay very nice pay-ins and all online, but very few people actually open up their pockets to do these particular apps and everything as well. I think Indian, especially India, India needs to actually are looking at these companies with a lot more love. We've seen a number of very large Indian players actually looking at acquisitions primarily abroad and then publicly writing all those acquisitions in some time also a few years after that. The only Indian, the largest Indian, this one investor into startups, the largest MNA expert and driver in startups is actually Jio. But I think it's India does need only one Jio, India actually needs another 10 Jios in order to make sure that the potential of India actually does come up. So even what Indian investors have actually started doing as of now, I wonder the reasons why Indian investors are reluctant to invest in the startups, primarily at systems of government policy. Let's look at the stock market. The stock market, it's easy to enter, it's easy to exit. And in spite of that, it actually has a tax rate that is 40% of the tax rate that applies to startups and capital gains in startups. So the entire Indian venture capital association and the industry has been trying to sensitize the government saying, these are far riskier bets. They are illiquid also in nature. All the money goes in as primary investment. The money that goes in directly goes into goes into developing product, goes into creating market access, goes into hiring, goes into increasing employment. Whereas instead the stock market is essentially like a closed circuit of people who are actually just paying money to each other to actually buy and purchase stocks. And very small amount of money actually goes into primary investments over there, right? So women try to educate the government and the government also, the government is intent on Atman and Barat and actually increasing this. The government should actually look at sort of rolling out the red carpet for Indian investors in the Indian investing class to start investing into Indian startups. But the bulk of the reason why people say they don't want to do this is, look, these are the, essentially the tax reason actually becomes an overarching reason. And we can't have investment decisions and the creation of an entire new ecosystem be determined solely on the basis of the adverse tax policies that the government has actually created in as of now. So the government is intent on Atman and Barat and to actually start creating a self-sufficient ecosystem. Then we actually need to start incentivizing the Indian capital class to start investing into it and increase the amount of rupee capital that's actually coming in. And I think the government also needs to sort of articulate a playbook as to how exactly are they going to treat this particular apps and all as well. If you notice the prime minister's office has actually had accounts on, they had it on TikTok, they had it on Beechat, they had it on Cina Vibo, they have it on Twitter, they have it on Facebook, they have it on everything. But the question is where is a government presence on an app like Mitro? Where is the government presence on an app like Trell? Where is the government presence on Chingari? Where is the government presence on all these other apps as well? So the question that government needs to answer and the prime minister has been adamant on vocal for local, when is the government going to start practicing this? I think that's the important thing that the government also needs to shift its mindset to say, look, if I am going to back these particular startups beyond making, beyond the sloganeering, beyond the announcements, we actually need to start becoming patrons and clients of all these particular companies as well. I think the moment that happens, that actually in turn is going to give the biggest stimulus to everyone and that is clearly articulate that the government's intentions are for this to be a long-term game and that's going to be important for every entrepreneur on this mind because as you mentioned previously also, vernacular and Indic languages are going to become, are going to become one of the differentiators compared to everything else and it's going to be apps like this so we're going to concentrate on that particular market that's actually going to get everyone on board. The Indic speaking population of India is roughly about 100 million people out of a country of 1.3 billion, right? Everybody is more comfortable in their local languages, they're more comfortable laughing in Bojpuri, crying in Malayalam, cursing in Tamil, seducing people in Canada, all these other languages do also exist and that actually requires an innate understanding and ability to actually do it and unless the government actually steps up and does something over here, there's very little that all the private class can actually do. Out of the $14 billion saved by Indian startups, blaming to venture capital last year, less than $1 billion has actually come in from Indian sources and the moment, and see, money, there is no money, doesn't have any loyalty. Most of the international investors, they are investing into India because there's a strong economic case to be built up here. The moment another geography starts emerging and becomes far more attractive, then everyone's actually going to go there. So the moment that happens and all that money actually goes out, then the entire Indian startup system collapses and the government needs to introspect and figure out what they actually need to do, they need to walk the talk when it comes to this and then they are being vocal for local. That's supporting, so becoming vocal for your local apps and all that stuff, that's getting on with them as well and become clients and users. That's the only, that's the defining aspect of the playbook the government should actually create for this. Definitely. So, you know, just to the point that you made, so I'll come to this for a second before I go to Sumit. Sumit, have you seen the Prime Minister or Chief Minister or the celebrities already signing up on your platforms and requesting for, will you have also Blue Tech or something? I don't know if that's going to happen. Very quickly if you can tell him. Sorry, Sumit, please go ahead. Yeah, yeah, sorry Sumit, please go ahead. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, we will have an Orange Tech because that's that, that's that. And me and I think me and Shivank were on the other day, we were with the panel, Ravi Shankar sir, and so he was giving his blessings, you know, on the panel and yeah, I mean, I think they all want us to succeed and this is where is the exact words that I want you guys to succeed and you and Amitra should compete, you know, and build something big out of India. So yeah, I mean, I had Mr. Ravi Shankar Prasad signed up on Chingari. And not yet. Okay. I mean, I mean, yeah, we have been trying to, you know, get, we'll talk to my gov.in and trying to get under these guys. So talks are on, but I think, I mean, Siddharth, this will take time and I think the government is also watching in terms of how mature we are as a platform. And I think with due time and appropriate time, you know, they definitely will come sign up and ensure their support. I mean, that's my view about it. Okay. Fulti, you were saying something. Yeah, I think there's some good news for all the entrepreneurs. I do believe that celebrities and notable people are looking to, you know, kind of start communicating on the platforms. We are seeing some really good incoming and we are hopeful to announce some of the really great news for everybody. I wish you well, Siddharth. Just very briefly before I go to Siddharth and then we start taking questions. Have you seen, you know, the likes of Amitabh Bachchan, maybe you are, maybe, you know, you know, the government departments maybe coming to register on your platforms. I think that would definitely happen at times to come. The thing is, all these applications are very, very decent. For three months as, you know, even Sumit explained, so definitely a lot of focus on the project and definitely, I think, as far as, you know, IT ministry is concerned, they are showing a lot of interest and the thing is, it's up to the policy support. How would we leverage the initial momentum we have? Yeah, okay. Sunil sir, before we start taking questions, just finally from you that, you know, in terms of what I asked about, I mean, explain it very beautifully that what needs to be done in terms of India playbook. What do you want to add on that? Anything else in terms of investors and the government? Of course, the tax issue has been there for a long, long, long, long time. I've been hearing since when I was maybe 10 years younger, you know, this tax issue and everything. We've never got to the end of it, so what's your think? No, I think Siddharth, really, and through IVCA, I think there are any way of representing on the tax issue. That's, you know, that's a very, you know, it could be a game changer sort of if you look at it, you know, there is some participation happening at the domestic HNI levels. There is also participation from some of the family officers, you know, I mean, of these large corporates, but I think it's not enough. If you look at with the exception of Jio, who's probably, you know, invested with about 20 odd startups in the last four, five years, a lot of the other corporates have done some investments, you know, whether it's the Mahindra Group, the Hero Group, a lot of other corporates have done investments, but it is not enough. And the size of checks they're writing today is, you know, at some level testing, you know, the markets. I think they also need to build conviction, have some faith in the quality of the entrepreneurs which we are, which we have in the ecosystem, they need to probably write larger checks. And that participation could also, you know, mellow down to some of the larger HNI bases, you know, who are doing some kinds of investments today, but it is not enough. And the government policy will definitely accentuate or accelerate the participation from the domestic wealth. And I think we need to reach a stage where, you know, domestic wealth is investing heavily into this ecosystem. And like, you know, I mean, one of the key things which I think would change that is, you know, tax ops or tax benefits. So, you know, we'll start taking some of the questions. So I think we have, do we have Dinesh, he has a question, can you give the mic to Dinesh? Thank you. So I had a question for Siddharth. Dinesh, you'll have to be a little louder. Okay, can you hear me now? Yeah, please go ahead. Yeah, I have a question for Siddharth. I just wanted to check with him that given the suddenness of how TikTok was banned and there was a vacuum left by apps like Mithro, how hard was it to come by with the risk analysis and how did they go about that? Because I don't think there was enough data on Indian-driven content-driven apps where there was projections on revenue as well as cash flow. So just wondering how did they come up with those risk assessments so quickly so as to go about the investment rounds? Happy to. So see what happens, as I said previously as well, a large amount of the work in terms of creating the foundation required for apps that this has succeeded has already been done. There are already the numbers, there are only numbers that these apps have thrown out as to how the Indian market reacts, what the market potential, what is the market potential of the average Indian user? I think the total marketing dollars that one can obtain from an Indian user is roughly about $11 per user, whereas for the US, for example, it's about 112. So the delta that exists, there is a delta that exists over there, of course, but the thing about India is India has always been the long-tail market and these kind of apps, especially are the long-tail of the long-tail. So while Indians are generous when it comes to their attention, they may not be as generous when it comes to their money. So the altered monetization strategies that the companies and the entrepreneurs can actually develop and can articulate actually becomes a very important factor over that. So that becomes number one. Number two, when it comes to this, what are the technical jobs that these particular entrepreneurs can actually bring to the table as of now and how can they actually differentiate themselves from some of the other players in the market as well as the larger people? Number three, when it actually comes to this, number three, when it actually comes to this particular part as well, what is the tech backbone that these companies have actually developed as of now? Because see, the most core product that we hear, the core product that you actually ask me here are the users and everything that comes on board. The technology platform actually becomes the greatest enabler of this as well. And all this is primarily driven by the vision that comes in with the entrepreneurs. So the risk assessment, as you said, even as I asked what the Damodaran, one of the most foremost experts in valuations that he said, for companies who are just starting off as of now, whatever business plan they may possibly give you, discount that by 50, 60%, run your own assessment and then work with them hard and pray to God that you can actually build the entire company up after that. This actually becomes a lot. And this is some of the, this is a hallmark of early stage investing anywhere in the entire world. So what matters of yours actually gonna be the entrepreneur and the ability to sort of master, ability to navigate all these particular channels and ability to articulate their vision and actually build towards that as well. Along with this actually forms the integrity of the entrepreneur. That is foremost because all the claims made on a deck, all the claims made on social media or interviews anywhere else, unless they're actually backed up accurately by the data that's actually coming on board. And once you start digging in, digging into that, it actually stands up to the test of time. That actually shows that this is a person that you can back. This is a person that you can trust. This is a person that your mind who can actually build an entire company in this entire green field experience that India's currently going to ask. Sunil, will you have, will you want to take that question as well? No, I think Siddharth has covered the points well. So, I mean, I don't have anything to add to that. Okay, okay. So we'll take the next question. I think the next question is from Swagat. If we can hear Swagat please. Yes, Swagat, can you hear us? Hi, can you hear me? Yes, we can, please go ahead. Yeah, so my question was regarding Chinese competition that is TikTok. And we saw that in 2017, TikTok was banned. So, and I believe the ban even now is entering and they're contesting this ban. There's a good chance that TikTok might be back in the United States and so might the other apps. So, my question to all founders is this, that will your social media apps be resilient enough to sustain such a future scenario where TikTok might be back again? I think partly we have covered, but again I mean, I just want to add anything to what we have already discussed. Sure, so I mean, as we had already touched up on this, the ban was never something that we were planning to or building our company around. The ban just came as an excellent and I think as a complete surprise to all of us and accelerated our growth and strategy of execution. But even if the ban is lifted and even if they come back, I think it won't really matter because we, I mean, the goal of building Chengari and the goal of building this product was not because we wanted that TikTok should be banned and then we'll do our business and product and build the company. We were doing and building before the ban as well and doing well before the ban. So yeah, I don't really think it will matter if they come back. We'll still execute and execute whatever plans we had. Sure, I think I'll cover it on a broad point. So talking about Indian market and being able to go to international, I think most of it is about focus. So I believe entrepreneurs have seen amazing opportunity rising in India. We have seen all sorts of media, platform, be it television, radio, or you talk about even web publishing. All of them got localized in India, have created humongous amount of value and a great amount of businesses coming out of it. I believe that India is going through an inflection point where we are seeing almost 15% of the world's population coming online in the next few years. If you don't focus there, right? Then the dream of making an international product is a long shot dream, right? So you focus on something which is growing very fast where nobody has solved the problem and essentially create value for the users who are really looking for the products made for them. So I think that is where all of us are focusing upon and definitely in future, most of the platforms who succeed are going to go out to the international markets as well. Sivak? Yeah, I mean, if we focus on Indian market to begin with, I think most of the corporate, I mean, international companies, they haven't seen the roots of our societies. So they've been more prevalent in Metro City than T-1 cities. For example, even the need for a creation tool, I mean, what tools they want actually differs a lot from the Metro users as well as T-2 and T-3. So I think that understanding of the market will be a differentiating point for us backed by a solid technology team. That's my take on that. So we'll take the next question. We just have a couple of minutes to go before we wrap up. So can we have Manju not answering the question? Manju, if you can. Hi, yeah, fine. So I have two questions. One is, as Sivak, that I mentioned, technology backboard is crucial. So what is the tech stack being by these applications? The second question that I have is, what is the plan for short-term and long-term monetization? I think the monetization question already we have touched upon it, but if you want to add some information about which one, but the tech part that the question was, how would you want to take that out? Sure, so I can talk about what we are doing in Singari. So obviously, so this application is a deep tech play. You have to build a lot of machine learning, a lot of interesting algorithms in the backend to personalize and predict the best videos for the users that are consuming and that are coming on the platform. You have to build amazing creation tools in terms of filters, the AR filters. I mean, so you have to understand that Singari, all of these platforms, they have to give creation abilities to the platform users in a way that they get hooked to it. So that is really important. And the third thing is obviously robust infrastructure, robust backend in terms of, so it could be like, so I think two of us are on AWS and, you know, and I mean, so it has to be Docker, Kubernetes, serverless architecture and all those, stuff and I think, yeah, a mix of all these will have to be done to build the next big social network out of here. And I already touched upon monetization, but I will really add to this also right now, all of us are really, really ugly in terms of ad monetization. So social networks have to hit something called as network effects. And only then, as founders or as the founding team, we would be going after ad owners. But right now, what we have thought about is creating a product within the product experiences, which are not disruptive for the users. So something like brand challenges, brand hashtag challenges or filters for the brands is what we have been working on. And so these features will not really disrupt the user experience, they will enjoy it, but their brands will also be able to position their offerings within the product. So this is what we have been doing in terms of monetization. Sivank, would you want to answer that question? I think just a couple of points. So even we talk about, I mean, these questions are related to technology as well as a new revenue model. So I mean, the thing is we'll be building a lot more focused product where you have, we talk about advertisement, it should not be infringing to the user. I mean, the static advertisement. So anyway, we have to displace some promoted content or advertisement. It should be very aligned to the user's need. For that, we need to have personalization that understanding of the user. And that covers the technology part as well, because the more you have the understanding of the user through better AI and technology built on top of the infrastructure that you have, the better control you have what you're delivering to the end consumer. Polkit, there is a question you were specifically portrayal, so I'll pass it on to you. It says that in comparison to other platforms, Spend has advocated community building first. What effects has that seen on your platform? Sure. So as a platform, we have always stood by building a community of content creators and the network of them with the consumers, such that they could establish a differentiated persona of themselves on the platform. Now imagine what is a social network? It is essentially nothing but a virtual world in which you are replicating your offline behavior in some ways. Now, the way people behave with different set of people in different social settings in offline world, the same has to be replicated in an online world. What we believed and what we understood while we were building a community was that a lot of people in India have these lifestyle passion. They want to talk about all these interests related to fashion, beauty, recipes, et cetera, et cetera. The problem was they were not able to establish their persona as a storyteller online. For example, you and me talking here, you are a storyteller, I am a storyteller, we are discussing between ourselves. Is there a go-to platform for the mass Indians wherein they could come online and essentially become a storyteller online? And this is where we understood the fundamental need of the people to express differently as compared to the other platforms. And when we did that, we kept on increasing our community base. How we did that was if you see in India, although we have around 70% of the users who are non-English speaking today on the internet, but there are hardly any content creators who are creating content in the native languages. The reason for that is the fact that they're under confident. If 10 people are speaking in English, I bet you none of the people would kind of speak in Hindi or Marathi or Telugu, right? So they feel under confident in the social settings that are already out there. We gave them a platform wherein they could feel comfortable in expressing their own views in their own languages. Also, we groomed them in order to become better storyteller by helping them to understand how to present themselves online, how to essentially talk about the topics which users are looking to answer or looking to consume online. So we did a lot of effort to essentially make sure that the people who are just coming on the internet could essentially become storytellers. They could express about the things that they really believe in or they really enjoy and how they could make content which is relatable to the audience which is trying to listen to them. So I think that has already established as a differentiated player in the market. And also that has been the reason for us to kind of grow very organically for the last few months or a year. Just to give an anecdote of that, I think we are one of the only companies which essentially surpassed 25 million monthly active users on our app with less than $3 million spent ever in the Indian ecosystem, right? So that talks about how much community leads to word of mouth and growth for start-ups or social start-ups in the long term. All right, all right. Gentlemen, we have run out of time but there are two very interesting questions. So I'm requesting you to bear with me and we take those questions. Can we have Jigyan Shoo to ask his question, please? Jigyan Shoo, you'll have to unmute and ask your question, please. Hello. Yes, please go ahead. Am I on to go? Yes, my question was like, as we know, there are a lot of influencers in TikTok and how far you have seen the ratio that number of influencers shifting to your platforms and what are their reaction to the change in the market? Okay. So may I give Jigyan Shoo to anyone? Yeah, I can take that. So, I mean, we are seeing a lot of creators. I mean, I would not call them stars or superstars of TikTok but a lot of creators of TikTok moving to the platform. And I think the experience, product experience, feature parity-wise is very, very similar and there is a reason that why we have kept it similar because we don't want to waste the user's time really learning a new user experience. So when a TikToker comes to watch in Garia, we want him to have the pretty same UX, very similar onboarding and very similar way of creating the video, creating his content, merging, finding songs and dialogues and merging them and going about it. So, I mean, and we are seeing a lot of these TikTokers coming to us, creating the content on Jigari and then also downloading it and sharing on their WhatsApp status or putting it on their WhatsApp stories and Instagram stories. So that is a very unique behavior that we are observing that's going on in the platform right now. And I think it will just grow on from there. We are planning some activities around this. So community-building activities we are planning and I think it will just go up and above from here. And I just think we'll just take one more question. If Allen is there, Allen has a question. So if Allen can ask you a question, we'll meet up with him. Hello, can you hear me? Yeah, Allen, go ahead. Yeah, I just had a question that would be able to see monetization for the influencers. So one thing you've seen is on YouTube, that YouTube Adsense program where brands could partner up with individual creators and give them money for the brands to promote. And another thing which can be seen for the past is an app called Musically where the users could donate to their favorite influencers or individuals that they liked. So would we be able to see that from Trader Jigari and Mitron? And if not, why? Would it be because you wouldn't want it to be associated with these platforms? I would like to... Yeah, sure, go ahead. So I think the promise that we are giving to the influencers and we're very serious about it is we will give them the growth and their view which is a better revenue model. And for that, we are already in talks as we grow with a lot of brands that they can be associated with our influencers. So definitely we are giving them that growth which is sustainable, which is long-term, then a short-term gratification. In that sense, what we have seen at the influencer level, a lot of interest because they want to grow on a platform. They mean the influencers that are onboarding on a platform definitely want the same viewership, the same user base that you have seen on the TikTok. So yes, I think a lot of positivity around it. Sure, I'll add to that. So I think one of the very important aspects to consider in a developing economy like we are living in is that the content creators or the final user who is making an effort to create a lot of differentiated or even contact for the consumers should be able to monetize on top of it. And that is when this behavior can become a sustainable behavior for a long term. Now I'm sure like a lot of apps are also trying it and we are also focusing on it very deeply on how content creators could establish audience onto the platform, then be able to monetize it with either brand collaborations or commerce onto the platform. And this is where we do believe that in order to make this whole life cycle sustainable, it's important that your content creators are earning out of it. So yes, we are focusing on it very deeply and we are very, very particular about making sure that our content creators have a long-term sustainable income from a platform like Trell in future. So, you know, people, we have already given so far so time, but I will not let go Siddharth and Suneen without telling me that, you know, what is your strategy right now? You know, to catch them young because, you know, it's an emerging space. So, you know, how are you looking at in terms of putting your money here? Let me catch, let me see. A space like this, a space like this as it is, a space like this, you need to create an entirely new Greenfield, Greenfield kind of company. You need to build it entirely from the ground up and that. So we are three, one, four, actually pride ourselves on the fact that we do have the necessary infrastructure and the people to help these particular companies actually grow in time where we do, where we work very actively with them in terms of market access, in terms of creating the frameworks of governance, of governance accounting finance that they actually require. They help them post their particular texts and sort of working them through which are the latest models of what's emerging as well, how they can actually be applied onto your entire system and your app and actually getting very hands-all involved in this. So like I said previously also, the opportunity that we have as Indians, be it as Indian consumers, Indian entrepreneurs, Indian investors is something that we're only possible to see once in a lifetime. The entire online space is getting extremely crowded and things are extremely volatile as of now and opportunities like this, convergence of factors of COVID-19, of geo-watching happening, hardware costs coming down significantly, the fact that the level of education in terms of online uses and access grown up tremendously, a large amount of work has been done by people, some of the other larger companies, et cetera, and all this is now being entirely reset at this point in time. During these particular moments of crisis and these particular downturns, these are when the strongest and most resilient companies and founders do watch emerge and we are doing our part as an Indian investor, investing into these particular companies, working with them, as well as working on the entire ecosystem playing because in order for this to actually rise up, it's not just one subset of the entrepreneurs or investors that need to be taken care of. There's a lot of large amount of ecosystem education needs to happen. There's a lot of regulatory changes that need to also happen from that particular part. A lot of thought advocacy that also needs to play out as well because what we're seeing as of now is not the emergence of one world, what we're seeing as of now is the emergence of Bharat that's actually going to come onto this particular, that's actually going to come onto an intent to a large extent and make his voice heard actually throughout the world. And all of us are going to be participants in this where all of them will be authors of this particular story also. So we are doing our part and we have to collaborate and work with anyone who also is aligned in this particular vision. So Sudeel, so now there are many startups aspiring entrepreneurs who are looking at this space and we know that this space has your interest. So if they send you their pitch deck, will you have that you're also interested in? So Sudeel, we've already backed one company in the space and as of fun, we typically don't invest in competing businesses. But I mean, at the larger thesis, there are different Chinese apps which have been banned and there could be an outflow of different stories emerging from those bands and we would definitely be interested in looking at some of those. But on this specific point, I think, given that we've already invested in one company, we will not probably do a competing investment. I mean, that's been the philosophy and it was at our farm. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you, everyone. It was really a very insightful talk for even for me to understand from the on-liners themselves that what they're going doing and of course from start and Sudeel that how this space is, they are looking at and what needs to be changed. So I hope that this was helpful for everyone and thank you for being here and I hope to see you guys again in the next one. Thank you so much. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you. Thank you very much, everyone. Stay safe, goodbye. Bye-bye.