 Hello there, I know plenty of people are out this week. So, uh, we'll see who comes on in Amy, I think you're speaking but you were muted for a second. Oh, we'll give it a few more minutes. That's all All right, I'm gonna guess that's who we're going to get at least on this, uh American holiday week. So, uh, welcome. This is our normal TOC meeting. You have made it here There are a few TOC members on the call today and kind of here's our agenda today kind of want to chat about um like kubecon cloud native review just overall reactions and uh The floor is yours I'd put up some comments in here about like overall reactions. Just good things challenging changes for next time Happy to be able to hear from folks Hey, Amy. Are you calling out the TOC member to comment or I'm just doing general like everybody here Okay, it is an open floor. Go ahead. Okay. I guess I'll start. Uh, let me turn on my camera Sure, come on in Uh, yeah, so I think overall reaction I've heard are really good things about the keynote. I think was running really well. I mean One interesting comment I heard about the AI I think I heard people talking about it wish maybe a little bit more AI contents because it's just so hot but uh, Priyanka did a very cool demo at the beginning of the keynote kind of set the stage about AI and I heard some sentiment around God, uh, we wish to see a little bit more contents around the AI, you know after her Opening keynote, there may be not so much contents around the AI on any of the keynotes Um, I think team uh team hawken did a fantastic job on future kubernetes. I've heard so many people love his talk. Um, yeah, so a lot of good things I heard and obviously he got to meet, um A lot of uh, cloud native team members, you know, and the leaders that's very exciting Lovely, katie. I'll pass to you You just happen to be here Okay, cool. I joined a bit late as well. Um, I think well this uh, well cup cons in the in the past years has been a lot of uh, interaction with Leadership, especially considering that we have the strategy Meeting with the jba, the meetings with the tech chairs and so on Um, actually interacting with the techs that we have at least and with as well excited focus a lot on that um In general, I I do like the direction we're going in terms of how we Manage our work between the toc in the techs. Um, I think we had a very productive discussion there and I'd like to definitely see some of the Action items thereafter for us to have a further discussion to see how it can implement that so To ensure that the tocs and the tags are successful in their pursuits. So definitely did enjoy that um As always, I think everyone is curious about what was the new thing in in cloud native. There's always discussions about that I think ai was definitely on the spot here Which is a bit interesting considering that wasm was on the you know In the spotlight last year and we didn't hear as much perhaps in the keynotes or the general specifications about that so I think there's always this in kind of run towards or Spotlight towards the new new emerging technologies, which is great I think it's just a matter of us following through some of that enthusiasm and actually delivering as well So I think that's kind of to come as well in the ai part of things I didn't attend any sessions, but I'm planning to watch some of them. So that's pending So I don't have anything in terms of direct feedback towards the content or the quality of the content Or for the sessions, but I'm pretty sure it's all as usual Quite good to to watch thereafter as well. Is there any particular feedback we're looking for? Is it just like It was an open floor. I'm really really glad that you brought up the toc and tag chairs meeting Did that work for being able to have that kind of towards like the end of The conference and I know there were plenty of people were actually in that meeting here I think definitely it was helpful to have Everything in the same day like all of the gb and toc and and tag chairs all in the same day So I think that was definitely for me personally I I've actually had something every single day and I could pursue that quite nicely throughout every single day So I did enjoy that I'm not sure one hour was enough though For all of the discussions that we had perhaps we can do again something not long like maybe Two hours is going to be the extent of it and we can actually follow up for some of our agenda and items Maybe we can collect an agenda beforehand as well So we can definitely do some of that admin and perhaps allocate a bit more time because I definitely would find that Productive class That's my overview. I would like to hear everyone else's maybe I'm going to pile up on their feedback Yeah, by the way, I really enjoyed the meeting just tell me quickly I also really enjoy the toc and tag meeting It just gives us an amazing opportunity to meet with other people and also I think this is the first kubecon There's no meet. There's no conference on Friday. So people actually are really happy to stay to your Thursday. Okay. I'm down. Sorry Now I just want to quickly and kind of very specifically respond to the Last day piece of what aby said I think I agree with what katie said about having a bunch of the stuff together because I felt like for me the conference had like The day that I spent with my team the day that I spent with the toc like each each day kind of had a thing I was focusing on which was great my One thing about this being the last day is I flew out I don't remember when it was like three or four or something But I ended up walking from the tag toc meeting basically straight to an uber to the airport And that meant that the couple of slack methods I got during that meeting that were like, hey, Dave let's talk about this thing afterwards all turned into replies from me from the airport two hours later saying like Later it's going to be a zoom call next week. Sorry and um I guess things like that I'm not even sure I said the toc panel may be an easier thing to like walk straight out of but that also Questions, I don't I don't know if there's like a way to restructure it sort of things like the tag toc conversation has Like always has some kind of hallway time afterwards But I think that would have been great or maybe I just need to not fly out as early Katie you have a hand passing to you I think there are other people like just and I think you're trying to say something before and if not I can I can go Oh, I have one quick comment Um, so, uh I'm sorry that I couldn't join the the tactic of the meeting because There's this and meet the co-ordinators community event Happening at the same time so Will be great if we could Schedule that at a different time If we are going to do this again in the next cup come Thank you Okay, you do have a hand. Perfect. Okay I wasn't sure if it was like a remaining hand. So go ahead. Yes. Uh, I wanted to kind of Maybe follow up on Dave's feedback on the toc panel I do find that we don't have as much attendance for the toc panel I think and it's a very rare opportunities when all of the tocs are in the same room And perhaps we can actually have an open floor agenda as well Um, I'm not sure if we can do anything about that Correctively, but I would love to have more and more people interested in attending Or maybe we can do some advertisement around that. I don't know some marketing, but I would definitely like for more people to turn up um, and again, maybe health and hours not sufficient, but That that's kind of the slot we have During the sessions at kipcon And then the everything that I really really like is Celebration we actually had new awards and I'm loving the fact that we only come up with these awards in september And they actually were given in november. So I'm absolutely loving that and I think we need to do more of that Rena you have a hand come on video um So I was going to echo what others have already kind of said a lot of the overlap Between the toc the sig meet and greet The kubernetes community and then the there was an overlap with the the tag Meet and greet. I forget what it's called um, so trying to run between everything um and go up and down and across the halls and um it'd be Can those be scheduled where? Yeah, just not overlap those um, I do like the idea of So pre submitting questions. I thought that was great. Justin and then also um Oh, I had another thought but I'll come back to it since I can't remember right now Thank you Lynn and then Duffy All right, I'll go next just to answer Katie's question So I think for many of the attendees, they don't know about the toc panel And I happen to find out accidentally where I was brought the agenda I think it would be really helpful if we have a more descriptive In the in the toc panel to discuss, you know, maybe a particular topic focus like the toc's guidance on Well, the ai is going in the cloud native ecosystem, you know, have a hot topic attached to it So people knows What the topic we're discussing was like open floor kind of q and a so that might be helpful But I do agree with you. It's like so rare to see all the toc members on the panel except one I think but the attendance wasn't great. Yeah Over to you Duffy Yeah, I think we could also probably do a better job of like advertising it ourselves and also as Part of the cncf like we could actually use the cncf twitter handle to push that To push more interest in that than we are That's another area other thing from this cube con obviously it was It was interesting. I felt like the energy of cube con had like shifted from here's what we're about to do Here's what's coming to like here's what we have done and here's what So it was like a point of maturity, which was interesting like was it definitely a different energy than I've experienced at other cube cons I enjoyed doing the panel on the big stage. That was the first time there I've already I mean despite the hiccups we were able to get that done and I felt like that came off pretty well Although in retrospect I probably was still in chris's slides for that because I think he did a better job on his slides than I did Now that I think about it. He's probably much better Situated to have a to do a report on what we've been working on and stuff So a combination of those two would have been good if somebody's doing this in the future I do recommend that they do that The running around was you know, I mean the challenges with with things back to back I made I made some of them and I made some time in some of them, but I wasn't able to make all of them but that's The limitation of the world But yeah, Ricardo you had a comment and chat as well Regarding the doc panel. Yeah, come on in Yeah, I mean The yeah, I had some we had some issues with the attack runtime attendance too. So so maybe helping with reaching out with some more more folks for these maintainer sessions or to see panel sessions and will be helpful next time Maybe advertising a little bit more So, yeah, I do have another comment about the attack in to see meeting or attack chairs in tag leads I think the common Consensus that I've been hearing is that maybe we need a little bit more structure in the In the meeting. So I think it was great to meet everyone But I think the meeting Was bouncing around with different questions and different comments. So So I think having a little more structure around that might help next time You don't want to put a lot of a structure too because that makes it too rigid But but having some sense of like these are the topics we're going to discuss and these are the Action items that came out of this discussion and that's what we need to do going forward Over to somebody who had a great question. Actually, Alex, you have a hand. So then and then Katie's question Um, so I thought I thought cube calm was great. I thought um the interaction in the community Were actually particularly good this year the the toc tag meeting I thought was good in the sense that we did have a wide variety of discussions And I completely agree with what's Ricardo said around the structure But I think it was unstructured because we don't have enough of those conversations Um, and in fact, one of the things we discussed in that toc tag call was, you know, have One of these toc sessions every month to actually discuss these sort of strategy items and and work on them because We shouldn't be just waiting for cube puns to do that. So I'd love that if If that became if that became an action item um One thing I would say about the key notes was I kind of got mixed feedback talking to different people Some people love them some people not so much and I think um We may want to balance out or or maybe apply themes to the different days to to kind of um to kind of make them more interesting because this year, for example we had a really Intensive focus on the community and that's great like, you know people know it's about the community, but it was very much about the community and there was less about real-life use cases and stories from end users and things like that and and and the reason why the reason why I mentioned this is because um I have sort of uh colleagues In different companies and they specifically bring Their managers and their cio's and their cto's to kubecon to learn and to get the vibe of that keynote And for example last year in detroit that was really successful And I know of companies that adopted a whole new clarinative strategy because of those key notes This year it was almost all about diversity and community, which is also great But they didn't come away with that. Oh, we need to do this. This is a thing That they didn't and and maybe we need to kind of Consider that for next year's agenda Katie pass and do you had a hand first then met? Yes, um, I have actually two two points. I would like to or two questions actually um, so back in the record is point that The tags didn't had a good attendance during their community meeting as well um, I was wondering uh, what is the interest at the booths as well because tags had booths So perhaps people just walking around and randomly seeing the both Maybe that's how they engage better rather than having something on the schedule with 10 to 12 other sessions at the same time So I was wondering what is the feedback there if you have a preference for the community meetings versus having a booth that's the first question and then The second point I would like to to make and this is perhaps um Following Alex comment on the keynotes. I think I know we had a end user panel but I definitely think there was Missing the end user keynote Um, because the end user panel is a discussion, which is great But I think it's that kind of impact of like this users, which is an end user Uses like all of this cloud technologies in this way And this is the impact and so on which is like very very focused case study like that kind of case study Material was kind of missing from from the keynotes this time around I find so perhaps we can do something about that So, you know when I when one of the themes that I noticed was I talked to more people than ever who want to get practical things done And this this speaks a little bit to to alex who you know was saying That stuff that teaches, you know, I was looking at the stack overflow developer survey And it's something like 20 of people are using kubernetes And when you look at it and the more I talk to people, I mean look at kubernetes look at our ecosystem look at all the vendors It's confusing. It's hard to navigate. We laugh about the landscape And there's a lot of people who need to have the dots connected to figure out how they can do useful things with technology Right and so just talking about the new technology is great. But for them, it's like, what do I do with this? How do I make it useful? How does it practically solve my problems? And for a lot of them, there's now just so much, right? I've been in this for so long I'm deep inside the tribe, but somebody who's coming in from the outside looks at this and goes I don't understand a lot of these base concepts. And I know when I was at the helm booth Uh talking to people, you know the maintainer talking to people I had to break things down to really simple ideas a number of times Just to get them to understand the building block concepts And then I could talk about how they could use a feature to do something useful And I can't assume that a lot of these people know a lot of this stuff You bring your boss, you bring these people, a lot of them don't know it So how can we convey a certain amount of that to the new folks? And help them figure out how to do useful things with it and not just get down into our silo of Here's the community built on all these years and all these to bring them in and help them Find the place and how it connects to their business, which will fuel more of this into the future Ricardo come on in I'll add something because I think one of the things that came out of the talk tag meeting discussion was that we have Little engagement from projects in the tag meetings They come when they have something to present or When they need to move to between maturity levels um, maybe cuckoos is also a nice place to To set up some sort of gathering with projects and get feedback on what they expect from the TOC What went well in their innovation process? What things were missing? What can we do to to have them showing up more often at the tag meetings? Because we have so many of them. Maybe we can get some momentum and do a similar talk tag meeting But with the project as well Other thoughts Katie, I know you've got like a lot around like the tab the end user feedback as well. Oh, okay. Um, I would can come back to the uh The folks talking about the tag booths as well Karina you had some comments Oh, uh, the tag app delivery booth was popular when presentations were being given. So it was great lots of people um engaged asking questions, so That landed really well. It is also um So How'd the runtime booth do though? I guess You may have missed that one Ricardo were you there? Yeah, I was there the There were some people all stopped by but uh, it wasn't you know a lot of activity or tons of activity, right? But we got some Good conversations interested in what the tag was doing. Well, what the scope was There was a lot of conversation around AI, of course So a lot a lot of stuff had just kind of shifted around that Especially with the new working group the artificial intelligence working group so I think Maybe some more engagement will come out of that in the future We had a lot of engagement with the platforms white paper and the The maturity model that came out So yeah, I think if more of these papers or More comes out right before kubecon generate more interest But I will say that joshkevon put a lot of effort as well as abbey banks are into Making sure there are lots of talks and At the booth and they promoted it heavily so It was a lot of work on their part I'll leave it some comments over in chat as well. Come on in What's your stuck on mutant that happens to? Actually, I'll pass to anyone from tech contributor strategy Like don's on the call as well. I I am on the call But I think all you should maybe answer that because I was Unfortunately down with cobit for most of kubecon. So I was less productive than I would have liked Oh, sorry, I was distracted. So now I hear my name. What's yeah, so yeah um tag contributor strategy. So as I read in chat, so we do ask for For a kiosk this time, but we instead visited other projects project boots and it was pretty good to talk to them about What we provide as a tag and also Of what is interesting about the these projects that we visited. So this could be also um This could be another approach for tags if they don't want to staff the kiosks They're less people Yeah, this is another approach Yeah, and one of the things that that we found was that when we when we had a booth um People just didn't know to come to talk to us So we didn't get a lot of traffic in the booth because people didn't People didn't know what we were to know that they should come talk to us We got a couple of projects who specifically needed our help where someone on the toc It's that hey, you know, you should talk to tag contributor strategy about this and those people came came to our kiosk you know in years past when we had one but Yeah, like Ali said, I think I think it was better for us As a tag to go around and talk to the projects I'm gonna back to you So following up on that During the tag meet and greet. What could have been helpful Or would be helpful is if there were placards or something at each table saying Here's tag runtime. Here's Etc. Um, kind of like at the sig meet and greet But even just a card for each tag Or a postcard saying this is what the tag is. This is what it could do for you These are, you know Common things you can find, you know, how do you find us just something informational just during that one hour um because I Talked to you know, several end users During that time and it would have been helpful if I came prepared and you know with something here This is how you can really join us. So Yeah, tag meet and greet was kind of like a Experiment that we did for this time and it sounds like it kind of worked and we kind of need a little bit more structure around it Is that fair? Okay Riccardo, you've got a lot in chat. I'm gonna pass back to you because you've got a lot in here Yeah So plus one to the riccardo's coming About maybe having some of the projects presenting the tag booth or or have a space and the conference to Engage with the projects and they can come and actually talk about what they're doing and How they're growing and what kind of help they need So that's really good. I think and regarding matt's coming Yeah, I think over the years people have mentioned this a lot about the landscape and about being confused All the different projects and everything keeps growing with new projects every time. So You end users and You are confused about where to start or where which project to use Because there's so many obviously they start with kubernetes in the beginning But there's so many other options so that they don't know they don't know where to go so they look at the landscape and then They see so many things and so they don't know what to do either. So I thought they had we had a Beginner session or beginner track a keep calm. I don't know. I don't know if we have that anymore, but Maybe in the future we can continue to consider that consider beginner type of engagements and uh, yeah, and then also leo's suggestion about using the Not using but engaging the ambassadors to help With the tag activities or reaching out to groups Around the world where they're actually based off So I think that might be helpful too. Oh, that's good stuff. Duffy pass to you Yeah, it was a training to me that I think we in the past have like done something with the toc during the contributor summit And I wonder if We should do something like with the tags in the contributor summit just to make them aware of more over that opportunity Like people who are like Contributors available to the idea that there's something To be done in the tag side Actually remember anything around toc directly around contributor summit, but I will take that like I think about this one Alex come back to you um Just an idea We we talk about the landscape in almost every meeting and every discussion mostly ironically, but What if we had a demystifying? the CNCF landscape session with toc members and the tag members Tag chairs there and kind of just did a quick five minutes per tag to say These are the storage projects. These are the runtime projects. These are the after delivery projects. These are the security projects and just have like kind of like an office hour q&a type session for an hour and Invites people and mention it in the keynote sort of people actually come Because that's the other thing if we if we're having a toc meeting and we're worried about the tendons mention it in the keynote Chris has actually a great comment over in Chat about Catherine Paganini has done a great job of the demystifying presentation and uh landscape 2.0 was linked here as well I'm not sure if he could drop on in but maybe I've just said everything for him Oh cool Yeah neat stuff Yeah, I think that might help as far as like the Getting people into a place where it actually makes more sense for them. Yeah, lots of good comments back in here. Um Other thoughts Ricardo come on back in. Yeah, sorry. I have it's not so much as I thought but we we had some Round internally also feedback from could come one item that I think was also brought up in the keynote on purpose, which was their kind of issues with the specific feature in this case the dynamic resource allocation for GPUs where a lot of work has going been going on Kubernetes with Some issues that need to be tackled at the technical level But this means this has implications to a lot of projects that are in the batch hbc ai space Um, once these things are sorted out and basically the dra people were asking for help from end users asking for help from anyone So I think there's a need to sort somehow coordinate that I think there is this working group batch in Kubernetes inside Kubernetes that is handling the Kubernetes side, but the implications for the remaining projects in the cncf not sure if we have uh, there's the batch systems initiative and working group um I was just thinking how the toc could Help with this. It's a very specific thing. It's kind of a key feature to enable AI workloads in the future about native deployments um I don't know if others have thoughts on how we can try to help them uh guide them put everyone in contact Justin Cormack, this seems exactly like some of the areas for your expertise I mean, can I can I can I learn more about this because I I kind of I totally missed this and I'm interested. Okay. So there there were a few talks. So there was a keynote where Kevin Tim and Marlo I think was there and some other people basically explained What this is about and why this is required and I think this was a request from Kevin and others to kind of make the program Make everyone aware of it. There's a couple of talks. I can put the links in the toc channel from Kevin and Evan and someone else from google that I forgot now the name Explaining what the issue is. We need to enable a dynamic resource allocation to have more flexible allocation of gpu's and zp slices Incorporate but the solution Is quite generic for any kind of resource and there are issues for it to be accepted by six scheduling music Note right now because of the implications on scheduling in the alpha scalar In Amsterdam this this was presented and it sounded like it's alpha now It'll be better soon and it's done What came out of the last coupon is there's some sort of blocker that needs to be figured out And I don't know we need we need to I was just thinking of how we can engage with them and put everyone together because Getting this in Kubernetes will take some time Getting the projects that rely on this feature to Integrate it will take again some time and in the meantime everyone is trying to do a yeah And trying to make the most of gpu's that don't exist or they can't get hold on So if we hope if we can help speed up, I think it's one One place where maybe the doc can play a role as well And uh dimms has provided plenty in chat and would like to not be called on next And riccardo you have more comments as well So just to compliment there if you're following the kubernetes working group batch So basically they decided to take the technical parts there But at the same time they're asking for feedback from end users saying is this too complicated? Can we simplify it? So there's a part there But then there are all the other projects like volcano armada all these things that we'll probably want to integrate at some point So I don't know just making sure that everyone talks together Rena you have a hand go ahead Um, I think my comment was more about a point to work group batch. That's awesome. I'm more at a Looking at the overall issue that you're bringing up is There's a lot going on in kubernetes. That's enabling everything on top of kubernetes all the other cloud native projects so As because you know, we have some Things that we're looking at right and signode and others that it's taking longer because Kind of similar things so Should these discussions be pointed back to Working groups in kubernetes. Is this something that the tags Can help drive is this a toc thing when There's already a lot that the toc is looking at so I'm not making an exact. This is what we should do But I think you're bringing up kind of a bigger macro Issue that eventually should be talked about more But I have been looking into work group batch and they do a great job. So Anyway, other comments Oh, yeah, ricardo, you're finding all the good links today too Folks that we haven't heard of that want to be able to come on in All right, um, you know, we've kind of gotten good like 40 minutes in here Which I think is pretty good for this group just generally Um G feed did have one final thing in here As far as being able to help wrap us up because we do actually have a place to be able to put feedback as well I know we put it in chat a little earlier And we can kind of bring that back up again. Yeah, thank you much. I have relinked it Thank you Since I've joined the cncf Uh, I try to collect community feedback and I presented to the events team every single kubecon. I do this I try to get different groups to put Feedback in here just so I can get some more diverse perspectives um So here you go feel free to put stuff in here celebrate things Tell us what we need to improve on You may feel free to put your names in there when I give it to the events team I do completely create a new document and scrub all the names when I copy paste it so the End feedback to the events team Will be anonymous, but you know If you want to have your name next to it so other people see before then feel free Otherwise, don't put your name in there. Just you know Be nice. Be kind. We're all trying That's it. All right I think that pretty much wraps us up today any final thoughts All right, we're gonna send everybody back. Oh katie come on in. Yeah, wrap No, I was just saying I'm I'm looking forward to see everyone in Paris Which is going to be very close because december is just gone february. It's not existent. So it's going to become very quick Nope, this is wonderful. Our next meeting is going to be uh, let's see. Let me bring up calendar here We've got december 5th and we've got the uh tag updates So like come by and tell us all of the cool things that you were doing all of the cool things that you found out About kubecon and where you want to go from here. So Thank you all very very much. We'll see you online All right. Bye all. Thank you