 Welcome to the Insurance Sales Lab podcast. Today I have a very special guest, Todd McClain from Texas as an insurance agent, but also the founder of Agency MVP, which is arguably on the, one of the fastest growing CRMs for insurance agents and is on the cutting edge of technology. So we're going to be talking about marketing today and how Todd has grown his agency through direct mail as one of his marketing sources and as well as how many other agents use direct mail to grow their agency. Todd, welcome to the podcast. Thank you, appreciate it. Yeah, it's my pleasure. Yeah, to make sure that everybody knows kind of where you're at in terms of production, your team is not even that big. You just hired your fourth salesperson and you're going to write 200,000 PNC premium for personal items. You're not doing a lot of commercials. This is personal business, right? Yeah, so my, I'm so caught up in two other businesses, especially Agency MVP that I've kind of let my agency run on autopilots and as we all know, finding a real good producer is hard. So it's, I've kind of let it just organically grow through my marketing and trying to hire more producers. I need about four more. I need to double that team, but yeah, all my systems in place allow that to really run itself and hit 200,000 PNC. Yeah, I know a lot of agents who have four producers would be happy to do 100,000 PNC premium and they're in the business whereas you have essentially almost removed yourself from the agency and still able to produce those kinds of results. And I'm sure a lot of it has to do with how you market your agency. So my first question, Todd, is when I look at you, I think of an agent who's on the cutting edge of using technology in a way that hasn't been really used before. You have this amazing platform and Agency MVP, which has some components that no other CRM has. Why get into the direct mail business when there are so many digital options out there? Well, you have a lot of digital options, but they require a lot of time and attention. With my setup that I have in my agency, my systems allow me to understand where my carrier is competitive, which zip codes I should target. And I use digital assets too, so I am buying internet leads to offset any kind of, because direct mail is kind of like a roller coaster. So I'll increase internet leads when my mail volume is kind of at a downturn. But direct mail allows me to make our phones ring. So instead of doing a live transfer call, which is around $70 a piece, I can do a direct mail piece, which is exclusive. They call me, they're interested. It wasn't somebody who's telemarketed and then transferred the call to me. So somebody who's really interested to that intent is really high or say about $90 a phone call. So, but what it allows me to do is set up systems where I know which zip codes I'm gonna mail to because that's why I'm competitive, send out tons of bulk mail and then have reasonable expectations on incoming phone calls for really high intent customers. So it's really good for somebody who isn't gonna be constantly engaged in something like Facebook generation where you have to always monitor the activity and really dive into it a lot versus mailing. Right now I think I'm mailing about 50,000 mailers for four producers. 50,000 a month. Right. Okay. And how many calls are you getting off of that? So our average, because it's a blended average over 12 months is about 1.5% to 0.6% is our blended average. Some months, especially in December, you might get 0.3%, which is terrible. But in other months, like February, March, which are huge, you'll get 0.75 to 1% if you're left. Okay. So a lot of agents that you've talked to and I've talked to, they say, well, we partner with this company and we did direct mail or I did direct mail by myself or my company told me to do direct mail. I spent $5,000. I didn't get anything off of it. I didn't get any incoming calls. If I would have gotten five calls, I would have been happy, but I didn't get any calls. So what makes your direct mail marketing program? And we're talking about smarketing.com, the company. What makes your program different and unique? And why is it getting results for agents? Yeah, it drives me nuts. I used to do corporate mail because how I started my agency, by the way. So for the first five years, I did internet leads like crazy in telemarketing. And I noticed the do not call list really started killing that off. So I knew I had to do something different. I had to make my phone ring. So I tried referrals. It took too much of my time. I couldn't build at the time MVP off the ground. So I decided to get into direct mail and I started sending out a ton of direct mail through farmers, my carrier that I go to, it's my new agency group. And I never forget getting phone calls from our customer saying, oh, I got your letter plus like 10 other farmers agents on the same day. And so anybody who does any kind of corporate sponsored mail like you're just your one envelope with many other of your carrier that are hitting that mailbox and it's a ridiculous spam mail. So that was one of the things where even though your carrier might give you a subsidized rate or a cheaper rate you're still not gonna be like the exclusive letter that looks unique. Especially when I get my renewals I'll notice like state farms pretty notorious for this. I'll see like 10 state farm letters that are identical with different agents on the same day at my house. So most of the big carriers I wouldn't that's why you don't get much success from a carrier. Plus the way that the ad copy looks it's really generic. And so I can show off a piece of my ad copy here. We're talking about the other companies are pretty generic or what corporate provides is pretty generic, right? Yeah, that and when you look at other companies so we are using things like there's an example of using upside down an image of a person's home on the front of the envelope or this is like a snap pack mailer that you can tear off the edges. But it's really so your call to action just like if you're doing an ad copy on Facebook it's catching their attention. What's important about it? I use things that are kind of red to grab people's attention or an image of their house. But your ad copy is gonna be pretty generic. Some people it needs to be generic by the way. Some people try to get way too wordy. Some people focus on, they're not gonna read this. They're gonna look directly at what's their premium or savings or so we have, this is one of many of our letters that we send out high AP test quite a bit. This is one of our new snap packs that we're trying out. I actually found out the snap pack has about 0.35% contact rate whereas our envelope is running about 0.5. So I actually might quit using the snap pack versus somebody's gonna open an envelope. Can you walk us through the differences of that please? So I don't have, basically an envelope is really just imagine this section inside these arrows is the envelope. The snap pack is where they tear off the edges. Okay. And the reason why snap packs they used to work a lot but home warranty companies or like auto warranty companies just demolished this market with snap packs. They're cheaper for me. They run about five to seven cents cheaper. So that's why I was gonna try it out again and I did tried it out for three months but the response rate is about 20% lower. So we're not gonna release this to our main agents but that's what makes me really unique versus my competitors is they don't own an agency at least my big competitors that I know of. You know, they're just sending out what the agents want versus testing out a theory or a method seeing if it works for myself. If it does work for me, then I offer it to my agents. If it doesn't work, they don't even see it for the last day. My other one does have the same ag copy internally and what we do differently than a lot of agents is we have a marketing company that designs this content. We change it every 12 months and the reason why we change it is for mail to team. You'll get people that get another letter the next year if they recognize what the envelope looks like or the mail it looks like, they'll typically throw it away in the trash. That's why a snap pack meal got demolished because every single time you opened it it was a home warranty or like a vehicle warranty. Yeah. It just get tossed versus open. Does that make sense? Yeah, 100%. If you go back to page one and I wanted to point something out that caught my attention. So what I like about this is that when you see a envelope that looks like spam mail, someone's trying to sell you something, another app of Geico progressive, you just throw it away because you know what it is. But what makes this different is it says personal and confidential at the very top in red letters. Immediately that catches my attention along with that picture that is pulled, I assume from Google images, right? A public image that anybody has access to and at least catches your attention. And the first rule of marketing is get attention. If you don't have anybody's attention you get to sell them anything. So they look at that and at the very least they're going to think, okay, I wonder what this is all about. There's a picture of my property here and it says personal confidential so they're going to open it up. Once they open it, let's go to page two. Now they've invested a little bit of time in there. What I like that you've done here is that you put in some, you have a quote in there which is not 100% accurate but you have a algorithm that you use that can produce a general quote for them. Talk to me about that. Should agents be concerned about releasing a mock quote there? And how does that work? In some states yes, like California, California is a big stickler on you have to send out an accurate quote. So we have just a word of caution for California agents. Outside of California, one of our biggest, I mean, we kind of had two sides of agents. We have some agents who like the teaser quotes and then we have some agents who want it to be more realistic is what they say. So one, it's impossible because to get an accurate rate because you can't pull reports and generate a real quote. So how we do that is we ask the agent when they sign up with us, they have this matrix they fill out of best quotes that they've done and then we figure out a formula to run on any of the households that we send out a direct mail piece to. So we send out the best possible rate and a lot of agents love it. Some agents who don't stick around in direct mail don't like it because they have a difficult time explaining to somebody who's maybe 30% more expensive that it was basically a teaser, right? It's the best possible rate that you didn't qualify for. And so we have good scripting to get out of that. Like when we're talking to the person upfront, you say, well, yeah, that's our best possible rate. So I just need to run some, I'm not allowed to pull your consumer reports without your permission. So let me ask you a couple of discount questions to see if we can get it rate down that low if you qualify, great. So we go through that script upfront and that sets the stage for when we actually give them the price, they're not wondering why it wasn't that price. Right, right. So you set the expectations upfront that that is the best possible rates but I want to make sure it could even be better than that but I first need to gather some information from you to make sure that I have applied all the discounts that you qualify for and then throughout the conversation they build value where it pulls the focus away from just the price. So will you please 100% of people? No, will there be some people who are pissed off about the rate not matching up to the T? There will be people like that but for the most part, the reason this works so well and why a lot of the biggest agents that I work with use direct mail is because this is a proven marketing process that's worked at scale. There aren't many other marketing solutions that I've seen that agents have stuck with for a long time and not only that but have continued to increase their budget month after month. Like a lot of agents pick a budget for their internet leads and unless they hire someone they don't really spend more money but with direct mail if you can get the unit economics to work and your cost per call continues to go down as you continue to refine things and target the right zip codes then there's no reason not to continue to increase your budget. So talk to me about that. How do we make the math work for direct mail? And you mentioned the number of $90 per call and how does that end up working out? Sure, so my average is about $90. Some months it's more like 120. Some months. Per call in or per close deal? Per call in. Got it. Yeah, because what I'm looking at as a lot of people will say cost per sale is what they calculate me personally I look at cost per lead because my cost per sale is gonna fluctuate based on my closing ratio. And in this area in the Dallas-Sport Worth area where we take 30% rate swings every single year it feels like I really wanna focus and fine tune what my cost per lead is on direct mail. So that way I know I'm getting the response rate that I should be getting because if my cost per lead is really high for each call in the inbound call that we got that means I have a contact problem. Like in that might be the call to action it might be that I'm testing something changing up the ad copy in some way. So I really look at each ad copy and what was my cost per lead? And that really boils down to just if I send out 10,000 mailers and I get, I don't really wanna fly off the top of my head on math backwards and forwards trying to figure out what the cost per sale was. But I would say I'm really happy if my actual ROI on a direct mail campaign is a minimum of 50%. And that's because I know that by year two I have somebody who is not an internet lead shopper that shop rates all the time. I have somebody who picked up the phone called me and those are actually my highest retention ratio leads and keeping those clients on my books because they're not the type that will go out in internet lead shop. Does that make sense? Yeah, and if you compare that to a traditional internet lead that you pay $10 for if you look at how many of those internet leads you end up actually getting on the phone and quoting and they're quality individuals, let's say it's one out of 10 people that you buy as an internet lead. Well, you spent $100 to produce one quality quotes but you had to make 10 phone calls or contact work 10 leads. Call each one of them a certain amount of times and you compare that to a $100, $90 incoming call. Well, this is someone who's calling you when it's convenient for them asking you to give them an insurance quote. So from a cost standpoint, yes, the cost per lead may appear to be more upfront but if you look at how much time you're saving that's really where the big savings come into it. That's one component but then also intent is the other big part. The person is calling in asking for quotes and you're not just sending out this direct mail piece to anybody. You're sending it to people where you know your rates are probably good. You're sending these homeowner quotes to people who are homeowners, people who are usually homeowners also have vehicles. So your premium is going to be a lot bigger. So I understand that with your marketing you have sourced the leads and you do everything from A to Z. I know with other companies you have to get leads from one vendor send it to another one to have them do the quotes and then send it to another company to actually put everything in an envelope and send it out. There's a lot of moving parts whereas when agents contact you they pick the zip codes, they produce a few mock quotes for you so they can run your formula and then is there anything else that agents need to do besides that to get everything going? No, I designed it to be real explosive and real turnkey. So yeah, each agent when they sign up with us they get their explosive letter so that that whole corporate problem that I always ran into no letter that we send out for agents is will ever be sent for another agent. So they get explosive zip codes we are downloading leads from so we're using either data axle or we're using experience. So top quality data this isn't somebody reselling data 8,000 times on the back end to the same person. So we have top quality data we download the list after we talk through the zip codes and the volume that they want we then send them the list so that they can scrub some agents don't scrub like independent agents won't scrub it but your captive agents will typically scrub out current customers for their carrier and then they send us back the scrub list and then we go and print and mail it out. And we'll typically depending on their volume we'll split it into two drops if there are over 6,000 mailers that way they can kind of hit 3,000 and 3,000 every other week but you're much larger agents. When I send out 50,000 I'm still only doing two drops. A lot of people ask me why I don't split it into weekly drops and the reason behind that is the X date. So we do something pretty unique and follow the actual X date of the property and try to ideally hit 45 days exactly before the renewal. And so if you do it weekly you have almost an entire week of where they wouldn't have gotten the renewal notice yet typically but if you do it bi-weekly then you have more chance at hitting it at the right time that they've at least seen it. Does that make sense? Yes. So they might get it 35 days so maybe they got the renewal notice 10 days ago but at least they've seen it. So we're really thoughtful about making sure they've seen the renewal notice and then we're hitting them with a letter. So the 6,000 drops you said are broken up into two. So each home address gets two drops, right? No, just one. Just one. Just one. So I meant if one month, so let's say March X dates. Yes. If they have a lead count of 6,000 mailers total then what we'll do is based on the X date of the property we'll split that up into two 3,000 drops. One maybe the second week of the month and then one the last week of the month. So it just depends. That makes perfect sense. Have you seen a huge increase if you hit the same address twice or three times? Actually seen a decrease. So your cost per lead goes up exponentially because typically if you're at copying your envelope was good enough to catch your attention the first time then if they see it again they're not gonna open it again. They're not curious as to what it was they'll just throw it away. Now if you had something more corporate spammy that looks maybe very vague maybe there's nothing but their address on the front then typically those will get opened up more but it's more spam related so your actual open rate from the very beginning is really low to begin with. So I found that when you send to the same house twice then it's really your cost per lead goes up exponentially because the people that were gonna open it the first time where you opened it. Yeah, one other great thing to do I don't know you do in your agency but if you take the list that you're mailing out and you upload it to Facebook you can run a Facebook ad targeting those same individuals saying, hey, we sent you a mail in the piece that looks just like this or similar to this that covers X, Y and Z. Make sure you give us a call at this number to get your homeowner's quote. So there's a very simple way to do that on Facebook and I can record a separate video showing exactly how to do that if you'd like and we can attach it to this video. So you can check it out. I haven't tried it yet. Everybody tells me that this sounds like a really good idea. I'd love to test it out. I've never done it only because of the volume and the list of leads that I have I don't know how we can identify on Facebook just from the name and address and once Facebook can do that without any further information. You would need the name, email and city, state or zip code. The street address is not a key identifier. A phone number is. No, and that's the problem. Most of the lead companies that we get from won't have an email and won't have a phone number other than like maybe 3% of the list because the VNC really just crushes it. You can download leads list from like full X dates that has a lot of emails on it. I've just found that with direct mail they're not the ideal carrier with a fresh list making sure that people actually live at the residence live there. So it's people like Experian who have credit on everyone. They typically have higher costs than the data but it's accurate data for the name and address of the person who lives there. So I don't know. I'll see if we can grab emails from Experian. Yeah, you can use just the first and last name and the zip code. So unless there's more than one Todd McLean that lives in the same zip code, Facebook should get a match. And as far as copy to use, what I would recommend is having like whoever is on that direct mail piece. There was a female in there. If possible, your wife, okay, you have the same individual hold a mock direct mail piece and maybe stand in front of a mailbox and take a picture. So it has to look like something that was taken with your phone, not a stock picture. And that will change people's attention. And if they can connect the dots of, oh, I remember seeing her in that direct mail piece, it'll just bring the two together. So that would be something we can certainly discuss at a later time and I could record a video on that. There's one other thing I wanna bring up. Yeah. So one other thing is the reason why my wife is on my direct mail piece is because she's a lot cuter than I am. One of the things that we've noticed and it's hard to say without sounding rude, is that the prettier the person is on your mailer, the more likely and pretty guys can be pretty. Vlad, you can be pretty. The more response rate you get. So I maybe tested her versus me and she had about a 15, 20% higher contact rate. So lower, 15% lower cost per lead. And since we're married, she technically owns my agency in Texas. So we're like, okay, hey, we'll put your image on. Yeah. So we have some agents who are physically challenged and they will add their staff or that what they'll do is they'll add a group photo of their team. Some use stock photos. So while it might sound a little shallow, it's ad copy. And so the better response rate, the lower cost, I don't care, right? So that's something that agents should consider when they're getting into direct mail is not using some corny you know, you behind a gray screen with your suit on smiling. Maybe it's something different. Yeah, I have an agent really good front of mind. He's out in the Seattle area. He has a picture of himself. I believe he's wearing a Seattle Mariners or Seahawks t-shirt. So people in Seattle instantly recognizes that. That's our guy right there. He's with his wife and their son, I believe in front of just like a tree. It's not a professional shot. It's something that it looks like they were just walking in the park. They're like, oh, let's be a great picture to take. And someone snapped the picture. So it looks very casual. And he's like, I'm not someone who wears a suit and a tie to work. So that's me. That's who I am. I think Todd, if you had a picture of you, your wife and a dog standing in front of some recognized place in your area, I think that could convert even better. Because if it's just one person, I only look at that one person. But if there's two of you guys and the dog, I'm thinking, what kind of dog is that? Oh, that looks a lot like my neighbor's dog. So it just makes me stop and look at it. Who is this guy all about? And the other, that same agent also puts a home recipe in there. So he says, this recipe has been in our family, but I'm letting you in on it. And he puts the ingredients and how to make it and a picture of it. So it just, that little touch for him has worked really well. And he has gotten down his cost per calling to be pretty low over time. And what he has shared with me is that people in it, that you mail in, say, December, might call you in January or February. So the longer you do it, he's seen his cost per call and go down because of that. Yeah, he was surprised the first time it occurred where someone called in, they said, yeah, I got your direct mail piece three or four months ago, but I didn't want to call you then. I've just been holding onto it. I had it hanging on my fridge. It's always been a to-do item for me. So that has worked really well. One thing I don't think we've mentioned here, and this is super important, a lot of agents don't know where their business is coming from. They'll write $200,000 premium, $100,000 premium, but they don't know the exact source. How much of that came from internet leads, referrals, or direct mail? You have a trackable phone number in there that gets put on every direct mail piece that still calls the number, the office number, but at least you'll know where it's coming from. Is that right? Well, not only that. So the trackable phone number is really important for unanswered calls. We'll get about 30% of the inbound calls that we get for after hours. And so agents who are sending out direct mail or really any marketing and mass quantity should have a unique phone number for that piece. And so if somebody calls the number during office hours when my phone's ringing, it says a mailer on our phones so that my sales team knows who's turning it is and pick it up and so they round it on in those leads. But after hours, we find about 30% of our calls come in after hours. And the next morning, we check anybody who would have called last evening or early that morning when we call those people back. And that's where a lot of agents miss direct mail is they're not checking for a unique call after hours. It's actually huge. If you think about 30%. That is huge because a lot of agents reroute their calls to the night team. You can't do that with this. Yep. Someone else will take the call. How important is it to have your hours listed there and say call me between these hours to get your quote? I want to capture the phone number so I don't care. I want them to call my office so now I have their name in the phone number and that's all I want. So I don't care if they're calling me after hours or what. Something else that we use that's had a lot of success in the QR code. Since COVID, everybody, every restaurant that almost feels like everybody's using QR codes a lot. We had tried these in the past before COVID and they did not work at all. People didn't know how to use them. And so now when we've added a QR code you can scan it with your phone and it takes you to a customized website for that mail piece and then all they have to do is enter in their phone number and hit submit and then it sends us an email for one of our producers to follow up with them. So using QR codes is a really convenient way instead of them making a phone call they can just scan it, get personalized landing page and then send their contact information to us. Very neat. Very neat. Yeah and I think over time that will become even more popular because people are just now to your point realizing that you can just put your camera over a QR code and it'll take you to that website. So who is the ideal agent for a program like this? Is it an agent who has $1,000 to spend and this is his last or her last $1,000 to throw that Hail Mary marketing or someone who's spending $5,000 a month and is willing to do this for 90 days and even if it doesn't work month one and two we'll stick through it so that at least test it for 90 days, who's the score? So you have to be able to cash flow when you're dealing with direct mail. And so we have, we turn away business quite often. I told Brittany who runs the mail company said if an agent is telling you that they can't afford direct mail then I don't wanna take their last $1,000. Like don't do that because if they can't do it for at least three months like you've mentioned about people calling three months later, that's how direct mail works. You'll get about 50% of your phone calls in the first 30 days but then the other 50% trickle in over the next three to six months. Well, and the main reason for that is people switch midterm. Like if I call you and you're not done with your home renewal, but your auto's up I'm gonna get you to cancel your home anyways. And so X dates, it's not flawless, right? So people will hold on to that letter until their real X date kicks in and then they'll give you a call and they get their renewal notice. So I would say the ideal agent, one, any brand new agent who is on a bonus program if you're not using direct mail, you're insane because you're on a bonus program. This at least captive agents are making 30 to 40% new business commission of premium, three to four times what the average agent makes you guys should be on direct mail as one of your main marketing systems. And then I would say your other agents who have at least some marketing in place and that they can afford to spend, I would say about at least 6,000 mail pieces per producer. And that producer needs to be the agent who's receiving these inbound calls if they're new to direct mail because I've had way too often where somebody will start our campaigns and then I'll tell them, look, do not put someone in experience or not your best closure on these leads. They are the highest quality because the intent, they're calling you for a quote but at the same time, they're expensive. So you need somebody who's really good at sales to be working these to get the ROI up. And so I'll have too many agents who are like, oh, I hired this new producer and they started working my direct mail and I was like, what are you doing? They're like, oh, I'm managing the business. Like, no, you cannot put somebody brand new on direct mail, have them work internet leads and like the quantity and I forget they have to go through the fire in order to qualify. So some agents, what we will coach them into doing if they have more than one producer is I say, look, make them earn the right to work direct mail leads. So put minimum production in place. Like if you don't hit that minimum production, you can't work direct mail. Go work these internet leads first and prove that you can hit a certain production level. But so the top agent needs to be the one working them and then cash flowing for at least three months because we have a contract with agents that sign up with us that you have to have at least 90 days of trying out our platform. And that was because we had too many agents in the past who would step in, try it for 30 days, not get the ROI. They thought they should get in 30 days when if they would have just kept going for 90 days they would have seen it. We have that in place, it's a 90 day contract. Awesome, thank you for sharing that. And again, if you haven't been on smarketing.com that's just the word marketing. Marketing mail.com. Yes, smarketingmail.com. Thank you for correcting that. Okay, let's round up here with your biggest success story that you've seen, it may be even outside of your agency probably outside of your agency an agent that really took this through a heart and went all in direct mail over a period of time what has been one of the best success stories that you've seen, that you can recall. I know you're not the one in the grind running that business, Brittany is, but. Yeah. I'm gonna have to think about that for a second because Brittany is the one running it. We have, we send out over a million mail pieces a month now. I would probably say an agent in Georgia who granted they've had really good closing ratios for farmers. And so this is a farmer's agent in Georgia. So they've had really good closing ratios but I got a Facebook message saying that with MVP and with direct mail, even though everyone around them is kind of getting really hurt by rate increases that had recently happened, they're still blowing it up, closing a ton of direct mail and a lot of older direct mail leads that they couldn't close in the past they're starting to close now. So, they, I don't think they're number one in the state but they're pretty damn close to number one when they weren't a couple of months ago before the rating pieces happened. So what I would tell agents is if you're consistent especially tracking with your zip codes and learning where you should be sending out direct mail and staying on top of that factor and then increasing your direct mail as it starts to convert for you and just keep scaling it. I mean, we really haven't had any bad stories from our direct mail program. I mean, agents that stick with it have had a lot of success with it. And I think what you said about the agent in Georgia that agent was already crushing it. The team knew how to close sales and this was just you pouring gasoline in that fire where you added one extra marketing source a way for them to get the highest quality leads outside of referrals or people just finding you online. So, if you don't train your team on how to sell and you think that this is going to save your agency it's not, don't go into this if your team has tried every other marketing source and they said, yeah, all leads suck this won't be any different if your team doesn't know how to sell. They need to first know how to sell and have a proven track record of closing so that when they do start getting incoming calls from direct mail they're able to close a really high percentage. One agent that uses direct mail that I know of closes over 60% of their incoming calls in the first call. They use my sales training program and prior to that before using sales training program they would get an incoming call they would gather some information and then say, all right, we'll call you back and what my training program has done is it showed them how to take an incoming call have a conversation with them while you're preparing the quotes and then close the sale in the very first call because the intent is there they're calling you when it's convenient for them at a time that works well for them whereas if you call them back later you might catch them at a bad time. So you have to marry the two things together. You can have the best marketing program in the world but if you don't train your team on how to sell don't expect great results. Any last minute thoughts that you want to show to the agents who are watching this? So a couple of things. We've mentioned phone numbers in the past about how I track the phone number. Well, I'm also tracking each marketing campaign in the agency MVP to track my real contact rates and my ROI for you sold and stuff like that through my agency MVP. But then the other thing about the Georgia agent something that I didn't expand on is that as their rates were increasing so their competitiveness were coming down most of the agents around them freaking out were buying a lot more internet leads. Well, if your rates are going up with your carrier not only are now you working low intent leads but these leads really want the best rate possible. So it's even harder to close those types of leads versus somebody who's exclusive calling you and you can drive that value conversation and sell that it's a much different experience. So that's why he maintained his sales and was elevated through scaling them versus everyone around him that was suffering through lower quality content or intent leads like internet leads and dealing with rate increases. So having direct mail as a solid marketing campaign a solid source, not the only source but a very solid one really helps you as the industry and the rates change around you. Yeah, this was very helpful, Todd and I think you've answered a lot of questions that people have had about direct mail and who should do it, who shouldn't do it. So for agents who want to reach out to Brittany and start a campaign with smart getting how do they go about doing that? So best easiest way is go to our website and you need to redesign it through it together. I think it looks good. It's very simple to the point. My favorite part is at the very top is our service right for you. And it says smart getting was built by a top agent, you to combat the terrible spray and pray services. I thought that was hilarious spray and pray services out there. We focusing on a focus and targeting by underwriting and estates. So it's very straight into the point of what it is that you do. And then it breaks down the pricing everything you need is on there. Yeah, so at the bottom of that our website is a contact us what would be very helpful for us is to at least know a couple of zip codes that you're wanting to target. So go to our websites, marketingmail.com at the bottom of contact us form put in a couple of zip codes that you're looking at. And then Brittany, my VP of smart getting mail will look at all the zip codes available around you for that for our letter. And then she'll reach out to the agent and start talking about what areas you want what volume do you want and then get the process started from there. Awesome. Can't thank you enough. I appreciate you hopping on the skull Todd. Thank you. All right. All right. Thank you for watching this video. If you are an insurance agent who wants to write 100, 200, 300 policies per month then I'd like to show you how this script can help you do exactly that. This script is what I personally used to write over 150 policies month after month after month. And many insurance agents have implemented this sales script in their agency and now are also writing over 100 policies per month. If you want to see a live demonstration on how this script works in action then go ahead and register for my free sales training webinar. I'll include a link right below this video register for that free webinar and you'll be able to see exactly how the script works and you'll be able to start implementing it in your agency right away. There's no theory in that sales training webinar. I'll actually show you the script and how it works. Go ahead and register for that webinar and I'll see you there. Take care.